Unpopular Battle opinions

@dredeuced: correction, hes the best at everything, yet some people dare disagree

@lvenger: he has actually, war hulk had cain at his mercy (I'll get to that in a sec) and proffesor hulk had cain on his knees in two shots, granted I think juggs was weakened. As for the whole 'thrown into a mountain fight' the writer said that cain was momentarily KOed off panel, but take that as you will.

I remember reading somewhere that it just unlocked potential, and death seed sentry is a bad example. thats supposed to be sentry with no mental limitations holding him back, ergo around void level. Void couldve done the same thing to thor that death seed sentry did. Whenever bobs been mentally stable he's been a match for the void, problem is he's never mentally stable. Although that doesn't mean I think that a mentally stable sentry is as powerful as void is, only that he's around his level (seeing as void tends to be more versatile). It's probably the same case with hulk, it just let him use all of his strength without needing to get angry. I mean, the last time he was able to do that I remember onslaught going "ka-boom!" but meh. Also, world war hulk and cain barely had time to fight. He at the very least dented cains helmet with a single hit, stopped his momentum and only BFRed him because the mansion was collapsing and the x-men were still inside.

Honestly, I don't see juggs taking a majority against most hulk incarnations. The fight will always be prolonged, and that's works against cain. I don't really see juggs being knocked out by the end but nor do I see hulk being KOed either. The best either can do is a stalemate or BFR imo. At least in their more normal incarnations.

Yeah, I agree on hp doomsday. Although I don't see that DOS feat as particularly great. I mean, just last month (I think) doc green was causing all of America to shake so bad that hellicarriers were swaying, scientists were getting scared and the moleman thought his base was under attack. And that was all whilst he wasn't going all out, once he took off the kid gloves he made rulk his b!tch. Aarrons hulk had a simialr feat except it caused earthqaukes all over the world.

By the way, does juggs still have his forc field anymore?

The New 52 Superman could take WBH easily ripping him in Half wont be a problem. He has not shown any durability to state that he cant be.

The new 52 wonder woman is still a beast . Based off what i have seen she is even capable of possibility defeating superman with her lasso and weapons puts her as one of the most dangerous.

The martain can take Superman and Wonder woman any day if he is serious.

Wally west and Barry nuff said i have to give my respect to all flashes.

The Hulk is one of the best physically and can defeat Thor on a physical level no hammer.

Thor has the power to defeat Hulk only with direct use of the Hammer only heavy magic.

Thor cannot defeat Wonder woman. Super girl or any body that uses s Super speeds and the strength above Thing.

Skaar is above Thing

Juggernaut now with that much power can defeat any version of the hulk easily . On physical level . Colossus got lucky.

Doctor strange is one of the most powerful i have seen in marvel .

Aquaman strength is hard to gauge . Yes he can defeat so many including thing/ possible Hercules

Shazam the new 52 is too powerful and can do summons . I have feeling he could take down Superman and wonder woman.

Darksied always above thanos .

Spider man is a boss . :) Creeper is a well the creeper :)

Kal kent takes Prime

@thedailybagel: I think @realitywarper has some scans that show that the Seed unlocks other peoples potential, they don't actually amp them.

...

@atheistknowledge: yeah, I just remember seeing something like that.

Notice the contradiction in his post... "Hulk is one of the best physically, but Superman rips his most powerful version in half easily"... Lol someone should make a compilation of biggest clowns of Comicvine.

Yes.

Moreover Sentry could one-shot Marvel characters before the Death Seed.

As showed in the "What if ? 200" which is canon as we see the Uatu of Earth-616 speaking with the Uatau of this alternate Earth that Bob rampaged.

For the record, Sentry dispersed Ymir's physical form during a free comic book day event.

Even Ymir reformed that teels long about Sentry's power.

Bob holds back a lot. The Heroes were his friends and he will surely hold back more against them even they have some conflicts.

Death Seed Scans :

Gallery

Sentry Vs Ymir :

Gallery

Ymir just beaten Thor unconscious. ( Avengers FCBD 2009)

More about Ymir :

Gallery

About War Hulk, the War Seed didn't exist at this time and he just chanelled his Gamma energies through the celestial weapons.

@realitywarper: eh? Then what made hulk so powerful if nothing was affecting him? He casually stopped juggs with strength and grounded him with one punch,

Blade Wank really needs to stop... and the Blade vs Deadpool fight needs to stop being used a major feat. with the way Deadpool was acting during that fight Captain America would have beat Wade

Apocalypse removed the shrapnel inside his brain that made Hulk hallucinate and see the ghost of his father all the time.

I guess that the fact that Hulk wasn't focused because of this lowered his ability to focus his rage previously, moreover the Celestial tech that Apocalypse gave to Hulk extended the range of his abilities.

If I recall correctly we see Hulk imbuing his Celestial Sword with gamma energies to remove Juggernaut's helmet and focusing his gamma energies in order to resist to the Juggernaut moving him.

That means that Hulk Gamma's energies enhance him in the same way than Cyttorak's energies enhance the Juggernaut.

@realitywarper: the celestial tech was just weaponry and a TP block IIRC. I can't see how any of that would increase his power so dramatically.

Namor just proved how awesome he really is... you might hate him but right now given what he just did he could destroy Aquaman

@serrure: which was.

Don't worry im on the case!

He bloodied Thanos and took several punches from him remaining conscious

@lvenger: That was my point mate. Juggernaut is really able to fight people like Hulk because of his powerset, not exactly because he's somehow his equal in the strength department. I'll need to re-read the issue but if my memory serves right, Juggernaut couldn't harm Onslaught same as Thor whereas Hulk actuslly did against Onslaught with a stronger shell. Anyways, WWH was holding back and you know this but regardless it's not about strength but about powerset and abilities... Hulk shouldn't be able to overpower the charge or flat out harm him like that, but i'm fairly certain he doesn't have the means to beat Hulk under regular circumstances and the best it can happen is a stalemate or Hulk BFRs him...

Well, I really think that it was the Celestial Tech added to the fact that he removed the schrapnel.

Gallery

Apocalypse remove the schrapnel and implant The Hulk with Celestial Tech.

Then :

And :

Gallery

Just one ? Are you sure ? :)

Dragon ball Z characters are overrated and underrated at the same time.

@ghostravage: juggernaut was begging for his life against onslaught.

@realitywarper: that was probably why he was so powerful then, hulk tends to be weaker when he's seperated from bruce, but when they're both in the same body but bruce is 'turned off' he becomes ridiculously powerful. The same thing happened with onslaught.

I see Juggs dropping before Hulk but the fight is pretty equal and could go either way. it's Marvel's version of Supemran vs Black Adam imho 2 extremely powerful/strong beasts going at it with neither side showing a clear victory.

WWHulk fought the entire MU for 2 days straight (X-men, F4, Avengers, New Avengers, Avengers Initiative, Heroes for Hire, Gamma Corps, Hercules and his group of rebels, Dr. Strange, Sentry, The Army etc and showed no signs of fatigue) it's also not very consistent since Superman was capable of holding his own against HP DD but doesn't mean he could beat that League not to mention he is supposedly as fast as Wally which is well just about as dumb as it sounds.

Again I don't want to come off as bashing your opinion. I do agree that these 3 are probably the Bricks/Tanks of both universes.

they retconned that. that version was too op.

That's the way I see it. :)

Yep. Juggernaut was scared to death by Onslaught.

If I recall correctly Onslaught ejected Juggs trough several states as he landed very far away and in another occasion he trapped Marko inside the Gem of Cyttorak.

That means Namor>>>Silver Surfer then.

@realitywarper: yep, in the final battle he held juggs in his hand and he started begging for his life, then he just knocked him away. I can't remember if juggs was KOed or not though.

@reaverlation: or that thanos isn't potrayed as powerful as he used to be. He went from tanking Odins best shots to being bloodied by namor, bloodied by black bolt, having hulk smile at his punch and being mildly affected by thors hits.

Despite him supposedly getting upgrades he isn't potrayed like he was back then. He's still powerful, don't get me wrong. But he doesn't seem as powerful as he used to be.

@thedailybagel: The reason for this is his upcoming appearance in the avengers movie, and marvels determination to shit on continuity to accomodate the movieverse fans

So despite things like beating down the avengers and the freakin annihilators easily just recently , dude *must* bleed /get hurt by hits from Thor and Namor to make him a beatable opponent without stretching credulity as opposed to someone who goes around lolnoping the surfer

same thing happened with darkseid when the superman animated series/ JLU started featuring him more and more

As far as black bolt goes, dude's full power otherwise rips open a hole in space time parsecs wide. Thanos even surviving the first scream is salutory, and the later ones were after he was weakened by the terrigen bomb

the IG is overrated

@masterkungfu: Really. And what pray do you feel its level is?

@thegrayghost: at the very top of the universal tier

people are claiming sh!t like its multiversal or omnipotent

Supergirl is underrated, Thor is way overrated.

@masterkungfu: Its not omnipotent sure

Buut...when the original IG does things like merge two universe effortlessly while INCOMPLETE, sure its multiversal

I don't remember but he was scared to death.

Could be an example of bad writing. We know there is a separate IG for ever universe in the marvel multiverse (ultimate Universe had 2 in fact), and the IG has failed to push back the recent Incursion so there's evidence its not multiversal.

@thegrayghost: which story arc are you referring to?

@masterkungfu: Infinity war

@rd1027: No. What we do know is the original gauntlet worked just fine in other universes, was able to merge other universes just fine while incomplete, and in a different universe itself, was able to repel a multiverse busting artifact while incomplete, and was the only one in existence, created from the reamains of the being that spawned the marvel multiverse

At the end of these shenanigans, Living Tribunal decreed via Eternity that gauntlet could never be brought together ever again, and would fail to function even when brought together

Subsequent writers then proceeded to outright ignore this to write about gauntlets that only worked in their home universes, one gauntlet for each universe, and how they might explode while trying to shove one tiny planet.

So yes, there is a difference between the original 90s gauntlet and the current ones

@thegrayghost:

The reason for this is his upcoming appearance in the avengers movie, and marvels determination to shit on continuity to accomodate the movieverse fans

Actually the real reason is Jim Starlin doesn't dictate his history as much, he's under creators pet at TV tropes

Thanos of Titan and Adam Warlock have fans, but readers find Thanos' continual presence at the center ofcrisis crossovers annoying, along with the fact Jim Starlin will delete or handwave less glamorous showings of his pet Thanos, unless the reason for them was his other pet Adam Warlock. This is also part of the reasonSquirrel Girl has fans because she was part of a gag that parodied Thanos' uber-competence and the tendency for his screw-ups to be explained away as inferior clones or part of his plan.

@thegrayghost: maybe, but it's still happening.

He didnt really beat down all of the annihilators. He beat BRB, BFRed gladiator and took down Ronan. Quasar and surfer got taken down by warlock. Besides, he wasn't really hurt by them so much as irritated by them. My point was that it doesn't take odin level hits to make him flinch anymore, powerhouse level guys can do it too, but they don't really hurt him if that makes sense.

Your can't quantify that, not to mention he was amoed by a machine during one of those feats, so 'dudes full power' means nothing to me aside from that fact that it can slightly hurt thanos. Heck, one time he was literally flowing power through his body and still didn't destroy a planet.

@dextersinister: Be however it may, Starlin has written a large portion ( and is still writing a large portion) of Marvel's cosmic history and specifically Thanos' , including yes, explaining away his lower showings

So yeah, it does still technically shit on his history

also, they absolutely are doing this ( and secret wars) to bring the 616 continuity closer to the movieverse

@thedailybagel: Well its a good thing then, that Thanos has been around for so long and we dont just consider his recent performances. Of which just to go as far back as annihilation, dude ignored fallen one busting a gas giant and survived Maker's blasts . I mean its not like there has ever been a company wide retcon in marvel to discount earlier feats

As for people making him flinch...sure they do. And sure Thanos BFRs gladiator rather than face him directly despite the fact that gladiators only comparative showings vs say...,surfer has him coming out second best and how much of a threat surfer is to thanos. And sure , Namor now makes him bleed before losing....but thats the point isnt it? You can only have so many stories about thanos saying " are you done yet? " to the surfer before that gets old, and there are only so many retcons Starlin can pull off before the company stops him from writing

So yes, Thanos totally does bleed from Namor ( who only recently was one shotted by BBs weakened voice in infinity , lost to ben underwater as far as his own fall from " beats hulk on land " goes) and hulk totally does get knocked out by Cap and Spidey and whoever

That doesnt change the fact that their consistent high end feats, over decades from the beginning of their careers to now, doesnt make such things feasible, especially given there being no retcon in marvel yet

so yep, Im still calling those Thanos showings PIS, at least till he perfroms at "namor makes him bleed" levels for the next 5 years say?

As far as Black Bolt goes, the payload for the bomb was removed , he powered it with his voice alone and then specifically overloaded it and his voice became one with it

That is completely, BB under his own power doing what he does

And if you are talking about the instance i think you are talking about, BB specifically gritted his teeth to contain his voice, and still shook tectonic plates on the other side of the planet while trying NOT to speak

If anything it supports his huge power output more than it detracts from it

@thegrayghost: true, but most classic era feats were more overpowered. Just look at thor for example.

I honestly can't see the point in the rest of your post. My whole point was that it doesn't take someone like Odin to hurt him nowadays, and that's backed by the last ten years of marvel history. Call it what you will but it doesn't take hits lol that to hurt him anymore.

As for blackbolt, I find it funny to going from "he can break reality" (which is completely unquantifiable and everyone and there mothers have done so at some point) to "well he shook tectonics plates on the other side of the planet whilst his body was in pain with the energy he was releasing".

I mean, by actual feats, thors Lightning has performed much better than almost anything blackbolt has ever done. Please, do tell how thanos surviving BBs scream is good when the best feat the guy has that's actually quantifiable is severely damaging a planet. Going by thanos and ALL of his history that type of power should be a cakewalk.

@thedailybagel: Thors " classic feats" are as applicable as they ever were , he still does shitload of stuff that can only be explained as " lol that hax hammer". His other feats like cutting through celestials that Odin with wtfprep cant are just as inapplicable as todays feats of repelling the phoenix force on his own

Infinity, just to note that one thing was written well less than 10 years after Thanos ignored a planet busting attack , and an attack from the goddamned beyonder ,even less than after Thanos ignored a cosmic cube going off on his crotch

It comes just over 10 years after Thanos came out of a solar system + singularity collapsing on him with mild scratches. It comes months after Thanos tanks a scream at close range from Black Bolt

Based on these feats over 10 years alone, what pray makes Thor hurting or making Thanos feel anything, remotely valid?

To be precise BB shook the planet while explicitly trying...not to shake the planet

As far as the fault goes, the blast radius alone is plenty quantifiable , in the area it covered , which is explicilty mentioned

The fault was created originally by a bomb meant to affect an entire galaxy ( and it is suggested the rest of the universe) before the payload was removed. After it had been removed making the bomb...no longer an actual bomb, BB powers it up with his voice, overloads it and causes an explosion anyway

An explosion 7 parsecs wide, that ripped open a hole that was about to consume the universe and did in one future, till Warlock contained the explosion ( after being warned from the future)

The explosion alone, after the payload of the bomb had been removed , is pretty quantifiable in that it ripped open a 7 parsec wide hole in space time

When your damage output is operating in parsecs, when you shake planets while not even trying , when earlier stuff involves one shotting the hulk briefly with a whisper, Im pretty comfortable saying a full out scream from BB operates at least at well beyond planetary levels

@thedailybagel: True, Professor Hulk did defeat a weakened Juggernaut quickly, but likewise a weakened Juggernaut also managed to KO Prof Hulk in another fight by either drowning him or choke holding him I believe. Moreover, that story is a classic story and more recent source material has depicted Juggernaut as being capable of withstanding much greater forces than he was subjected to at the end of his fight with Hulk. So the classic Hulk vs Juggernaut fight might be outdated by current feats.

Nor do I see Hulk taking majorities against Juggernaut, his powerset is defensively perfect for withstanding Hulk's physical offensive edges. A prolonged fight would really end in a mutual stalemate most likely since both cancel each other's physical trump cards, Hulk's strength most likely won't get through Cain's impenetrable forcefield whereas Juggs' strength might not overpower Hulk's increasing physicals.

Good point about Doc Green's punches in his fight with Rulk. But I'd remind you that DOS Doomsday does have those spiky bone protusions which were cutting through Superman's skin like butter. And Doc Green's piercing resistance is low even by Hulk standards, there might be a way for DOS DD to majorly hurt and put down Doc Green via stabbing him before Doc Green can Hulk out.

Lastly, I believe Juggernaut does have his forcefield, recently he got made into Cyttorak's Avatar again with a new costume and increased powers to boot. That'll include the forcefield I think.

@lvenger: fair enough on that point, although cain took out proffesor hulk by hit and run tactics whilst hulk wasn't fighting back (he only realised at the end of the fight that he was up against juggernaut).

That's my stance in all honesty. I don't see hulk putting cain down but nor do I see cain doing the same before hulk gets too strong,mhes already physically superior as it is, a prolonged fight would make it hard for cain to put him down.

Well, from memory he's only been pierced by lyras sword, and that isn't an ordinary sword. Not to mention that doc green has a great pain tolerance so unless the cut goes deep it isn't taking him out, and if doc green does decide to take the kid gloves off I don't see DD lasting too long, especially after what doc green did to rulk.

I saw that. In the fight repeated hits still didn't bring down collosus, and cains own stupidly got the better of him again. But anyway I agree overall that cain and hulk would most likely be a stalemate.

@thedailybagel: I recall Grey Hulk using the same hit and run tactics to beat an amped Thing so they're just as valid as a means to win a fight as pure brute force. Plus, I believe Professor Hulk wasn't exactly taking it easy on Cain in their other fight.

Same here though Cain's strength and striking feats are mostly on par with what Hulk can do even without 8th Day or Trion amps IMO.

Even if Lyra's sword is special, Doomsday's bone spikes weren't exactly average either, I think that even the weakened Bryne era/Pre DOS Superman had some limited resistance to piercing objects before fighting Doomsday. Moreover, you have to consider that Doc Green only reluctantly took the kid gloves off in one circumstance and only has one or two victories via pure physical force. It's certainly debateable as to whether Doc Green would be willing to tap into his Hulk side before Doomsday skewers him, as Doomsday won't be held back by character or morals as he goes all out straight away.

I found that to be at odds with Cain's apparent power amp after absorbing more of Cyttorak's power, which should have meant he could make even shorter work of Colossus than usual. Chalk it up to writer's influence and plot devices I guess.

Arrow is overrated.

And Nappa doesn't have better feats than Raditz.