Unpopular Battle opinions

@wolverine08:

You're the only child here.

Elder Scrolls characters are overrated and underrated at the same time. Daedric Princes are extremely overrated! This is coming from a big TES fan.

-Bronze-Tiger is overrated.

-Apocalypse DOES NOT have telepathy. The only two scans I've ever seen trying to support that claim show him defending against being attacked telepathically, which doesn't mean sh!t(characters without telepathy have done the same). GET OVER IT, Apocalypse fans.

New 52 Wonder Woman isn't in New 52 Superman's league

Most 'debates' devolve into one side showing feats or abilities for the character(s) they're arguing for that're inordinately high-end or rare, then whining about when the opposing side does the same.

Nobody can deny this.

Most Viners need to reference what the words stringing together "CONSISTENTLY to the best of their abilities in character" actually means.

Also, Apocalypse is not a Transcendent tier, and has no place in battles with Thanos and Darkseid.

Superman speeblitzing is a real argument. He's done it at lest 74 times post-crisis alone. Granted a few of these instances are arguably not speedblitzes but that should be counter balanced by the fact that these are certainly not every single one of Clarks speedblitzes.

Gallery

Gallery

Gallery

Gallery

Gallery

Gallery

Gallery

Gallery

@lvenger incidentally, I've been wondering if you might happen to know of any other blitzes I've missed.

@highaccuser: @kangconquers: 100% agree(with both).

Good to see someone gets it. Most people just use power scaling as an argument for N52 Wonder Woman.

@highaccuser: Jesus.

It took me days to find all of those. I have no life.

From your own books or on the internet?

Internet.

@highaccuser: Well done. That must have taken forever.

I think both superman and captain marvel can beat silver surfer individually. I feel like they are never written to their full potential given their powers

You wouldn't happen to be interested in defending Superman against a DBZ character would you...?

You say that like it's a knock against Peter's abilities. Wouldn't Black Panther lose without his suit to "fall back on", and Wolverine would lose without his claws to "fall back on", and Punisher would lose without his guns to "fall back on"? It's not like webbing is cheating, it's one of Spider-Man's most basic abilities.

@nickzambuto:

You say that like it's a knock against Peter's abilities.

Sure it is. The difference between Black Panther with his suit, Punisher with his guns, Wolverine with his claws, etc. is that all three of does guys will go the distance with their given opponents until they can't get up. Spider-Man can't do the distance with somebody like Wolverine or Black Panther, so he has to tie them up and run away. When people on here want to come and tell me that Peter is in a completely different league than guys like a Black Panther or Wolverine but can't create any logical arguments for his alleged dominance over them once you take away webbing, makes it hard for me to take the hype around him seriously.

I'd be cool with that.

Hey, it's at the very least a fool-proof means of shooting the people down who try to claim "Superman doesn't often speed-blitz in character".

Best compilation I've seen in a very long time.

@xiix:

Hey, it's at the very least a fool-proof means of shooting the people down who try to claim "Superman doesn't often speed-blitz in character".

Best compilation I've seen in a very long time.

Heh. True enough.

What do you mean by "go the distance"? And I don't see what's wrong with tying someone up and winning. Only reason he needs to do that with wolverine and black panther is because they have their defences against blunt force. Its pretty easy to be tough when you're wearing indestructible armor, or have the ability to not die along with indestructible bones.

what do you mean by power scaling? 90% of the time I see that word used, it is used wrong

what do you mean by this?

Also , ironicly, its surfer fans who say HE isnt written to his best

( not agreeing or disagreeing here, just thought that was kinda funny lol )

@jashro44:

What do you mean by "go the distance"?

Out fighting them physically.

Its pretty easy to be tough when you're wearing indestructible armor, or have the ability to not die along with indestructible bones.

Same could be easily argued for Peter with his physical stats.

@jashro44: agreed.

@easternwind: Hmm lets say something different. They use ABC logic.

You never really expounded on how a morals of Spider-Man is supposed to destroy Black Panther.

@comic_bruh777: Supes would get Solar energy drained by SS it's the main reason he would lose.

If you removed webbing Peter wouldn't all of a sudden be defenceless.

So basically all you have to do to have wolverine, black panther, etc beat spider-man is remove everything which makes Peter Parker into spider-man?

And you're missing the point. Every character in fiction has abilities which helps them out and different equipment. I mean if someone bumped a batman vs superman thread and said "WELL IF SUPERMAN DIDN'T HAVE HIS POWERS...." than yea pretty self explanatory what would happen. Thing is that doesn't change the fact superman does have a bajillion powers to give him the win over batman. Thats not a bad thing, its just apart of who superman is.

@jashro44:

If you removed webbing Peter wouldn't all of a sudden be defenceless.

I never he would be, nor do I believe so. He'd just lose majorities to both of them.

So basically all you have to do to have wolverine, black panther, etc beat spider-man is remove everything which makes Peter Parker into spider-man?

Not really. You tried to make a point that it is easy for Wolverine or Black Panther to be tough when they have entirely indestructible bones or a vibranium suit that is impervious to high amounts of damage, and I just pointed out this idea could easily go for Peter in regards to his physical stats. Even then, Spider-Man isn't Spider-Man due to webbing. He's primarily a product of physical strength, agility, speed, and Spider Sense. Your usage of Batman vs Superman and natural abilities is an extreme in contrast to what I am arguing with Black Panther and Wolverine. Take away heat vision from Clark and he'd just punch Batman to the moon. Take away super speed and he'd just crush his head, etc. Superman would have to be drastically, hilariously nerfed for Batman to ever beat him one on one. With Spider-Man, we make a change as slight as webbing and both Wolverine and Black Panther would beat him.

If Peter is so much better than both of them, why would losing something as little as webbing stop him? He'd beat most street levelers without it. Why can't he just speed bltiz one shot Wolverine or Black Panther? It's not like they're comparable to him.

My post wasn't really meant to downplay Spider-Man in general, but it was aimed towards those saying he's so above guys like Wolverine or Black Panther when he's clearly not. That entire conversation started because a poster said that a morals off Peter would obliterate Black Panther.

Pre-52 Superman's skill is underrated.

@wolverine08: Peter is considerable faster than T'Challa in base feats. Physically stronger and he definitely holds back more. If you took away Peters webbing and T'Challas armor they still wouldn't be even

@supermanwithatan01:

Peter is considerable faster than T'Challa in base feats.

Not really.

Spoken by Spider-Man himself.

Physically stronger and he definitely holds back more.

Peter's physical strength is countered by T'Challa's durability with his suit.

If you took away Peters webbing and T'Challas armor they still wouldn't be even

I don't disagree and I never even tried to argue for this idea.

Ok, Well, can you give an example?

Because There is GOOD ABC logic and BAD ABC logic.

Bad abc logic is logically fallacious . GOOD abc logic is literally a syllogism, which is HOW you argue, which is why I dont like ABC reffered to as all bad.

The Different is this

Bad ABC logic does not take into account which parts match up , Saying that someone is stronger than who they beat, rather than that they just over came durability, for example.

Here is a full example:

Wonderwoman beat Person 1, Person 1 ca lift 1000 tons, therefore Wonderwoman can lift 1000 tons.

That is BAD abc logic.

Good ABC logic takes into account everything, and is the only way to determine how good of a feat something is when it is vs another character

It is usually the best way to measure Villains lifting power, and Heros destructive power, as Heros are less likely to say, bust a town, and villains are less likely to say, lift something up that weighs a lot.

So heres an example of the good:

Wonderwoman strikes Person X, Person X is knocked out , Person X has Tanked hits from 3 different Town busters, therefore WW hits harder than a town buster.

This is more accurate because it directly compares,

ABC logic and power scaling are basically the same, the problem with them is when people say A beats B so A is stronger, faster more durable than B.

You cant do it that way, You have to look at what actually happens.

Saitama is overrated.

@wolverine08: You need to see that thread where people said Spidey would Solo Cap, Batman, Deathstroke AND Black Panther

While Bloodlusted

Dats some

Right but he to can "go the distance". You said that wolverine and black panther can "go the distance" in response to Nick listing various gears and abilities that wolverine and black panther have and you said the difference was "They can go distance". But no if you took away black panthers gear he wouldn't be able to "go the distance" with spider-man. If you took away wolverines claws he can tank some hits but honestly if Peter wanted to he could probably still choke him out.If you took away black panthers suit Peter would knock him out.

Which is basically removing everything which makes Peter parker into spider-man. I mean you've taken away his powers and webbing....

Never said it wasn't. I removed black panthers tech and one of wolverines abilities and your response was to take away all of Peters other abilities. Basically you do need to nerf spider-man for them to win, because there abilities aren't good enough on there own. You take away spider-mans webbing, I'll take away wolverine's adamantium, you take away spider-sense, I'll take away wolverine's healing factor, etc. Basically you need to keep nerfing spider-man until every aspect that makes Peter parker into spider-man, and allows him to do what he does is gone, and wolverine and black panther are at least left with their martial arts abilities.

That example wasn't in response to you taking away one of spider-mans abilities but all of his abilities.

I can just as easily pick certain abilities of wolverine and black panther and say similar.

Nick said this:

And then you said this:

You either implied using webbing was cheating, or it was a knock against spider-mans abilities....The point is I can call black panthers tech "cheating", same can be said about wolverine's healing factor or indestructible bones. I mean we're labelling advantages in the battle forums as "cheating" or "a knock against a character". And this is my issue.

Because using webbing is neither. Peter has used his skills in the field of science to make his webbing. He's put as much effort in his abilities as a scientist as wolverine has as a martial artist (probably even more so). So we are basically holding Peters hard work against him? I'm not arguing spider-man is on another level than black panther and wolverine, I'm more so trying to understand why we are trying to hold Peters advantages against him, especially since we are talking about an advantage he spent time and effort into working on.

@wolverine08: you're the expert. I just feel I've seen higher speed and strength feats from Peter than T'Calla,and that Peters high end feats ImO put him at a different level. Granted idk as much about either as you.

I agree.

He's a good example of someone that bridges the gap between powerhouses who exhibit exceptional martial-arts prowess(like Wonder-Woman and Mr. Majestic) and most of the rest who basically just "rush in, punch and blast things."

@supermanwithatan01: Fair enough.

@wolverine08: ik this isn't the thread but what's your opinion on Morals off Peter and morals off T'Challa

@supermanwithatan01: Is this Pre Doom War Black Panther vs standard Spider-Man?

@wolverine08: Most common T'Challa vs Most common Peter

@jashro44: I feel like the point I have been trying to get across has been getting confused amidst the breaking down of points, so I'm just going to limit this to a single paragraph highlighting the main things I have been trying to communicate. I wasn't trying to argue that Peter and his usage of webbing is a knock against his fighting capabilities or cheating in a sort of way(Though reading over my posts I can understand how it could possibly come across like that) I have no problem with characters in battle forums having certain things that lead to victory like with Peter's stats, or Black Panther's gear, or Wolverine's durability in the form of his skeleton, etc. etc. It's their abilities and winning is winning at the end of the day. What I don't really like is when people want to argue that relatively even characters aren't comparable whatsoever just because one of the characters wins due to slight advantages, which I feel what has been happening in this thread and in general at times with Spider-Man. My point of contention has been that Spider-Man is on very even terms with guys like a Black Panther or a Wolverine(And others in their league) with his webbing being the only real thing that gets him an edge. If he's completely and utterly better than them like certain posters in this thread have tried to argue multiple times, why is his path to victory marked by a small advantage? Why can't he just obliterate them in copious amounts of ways since he is so heinously better overall? The arguing for Peter's blatant superiority throughout this page was what was getting under my skin and I was pointing out how Peter only really has one advantage that leads him to victory over them as a counter.

Salt.

@laflux: I just don't like man childish nut hugging.

DOES THAT MAKE ME BAD????

Yes.

@night4345: Out.