#151 Edited by Lvenger (21066 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@green_skaar: Are you that certain about your OP post? Would you be willing to defend in a CAV later this month? I'm going on holiday next week for a while but I'm curious if you'd really be willing to stand by World Breaker Hulk actually beating Superman.

Excuse my ignorance, what is a "CAV"?

No, I should be the one who excuses my shortening of it. It means 'Challenge a Viner' and it's basically where you request and sort out a debate with another user or users and you can agree what characters you're using along with setting the conditions of the fight. It's a much more respectable form of debating since only 2 people partake in the debate following the battle forum rules. Here's the link: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/challenge-a-viner-577832/

One can also post in the thread saying which characters they're good at debating with and then another user can call them out on a match up.

#152 Posted by green_skaar (4554 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@green_skaar said:

@lvenger said:

@green_skaar: Are you that certain about your OP post? Would you be willing to defend in a CAV later this month? I'm going on holiday next week for a while but I'm curious if you'd really be willing to stand by World Breaker Hulk actually beating Superman.

Excuse my ignorance, what is a "CAV"?

No, I should be the one who excuses my shortening of it. It means 'Challenge a Viner' and it's basically where you request and sort out a debate with another user or users and you can agree what characters you're using along with setting the conditions of the fight. It's a much more respectable form of debating since only 2 people partake in the debate following the battle forum rules. Here's the link: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/challenge-a-viner-577832/

One can also post in the thread saying which characters they're good at debating with and then another user can call them out on a match up.

Thanks for the information. Let me think about it.

#153 Posted by Lvenger (21066 posts) - - Show Bio

@green_skaar: No problem, I'll keep from derailing the thread now.

What else can I think that's an unpopular opinion? I guess that Goku only stands a chance against Superman in SSJ God form.

#154 Posted by eternityx (2802 posts) - - Show Bio

The Spectre is nothing compared to LT.

Michael + Lucifer do not equal Omnipotent. No 2 numbers can equal infinity unless one of them is infinity.

PR Beyonder is not omnipotent, it was stated he was millions of times more powerful than the entire Marvel multiverse combined, but if he was omnipotent he would be infinitely more powerful than it.

All Supermen are overrated and so is Monarch.

All Supermen are crap characters as well.

Thor is overrated.

Juggernaut is overrated.

Gladiator is underrated.

Thanos would kick Darkseid's a**.

Captain America would kick Batman's a**.

Molecule Man should have stomped on Sentry.

Aunt May > TOAA.

#155 Edited by SMXLR8 (1505 posts) - - Show Bio
#156 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru said:

I don't think that Son-Goku and Vegeta are on pair with characters like Superman and Hyperion. I think that the DBZ warriors have great energy based attacks as well great durability, when it comes to taking such attacks, but tanking physical damage? Most of the DBZ warriors would die almost instantly if someone like Superman would punch them.

What I would like to see is a fight between Son-Goku & Vegeta versus great energy manipulators like Vulcan. I would like to see the two DBZ warriors fight Vulcan and Black Bolt. That fight should be much more even, but unforunately not many people seem to think that DBZ warriors lack durability against physical force and are more about their ki.

Dunno, Most DBZ energy attack are planet destroyers, so that seems a bit much, and most comics energy manipulators at that level also drain energy, so they would win.

1) They actually reinforce their body with Ki. That's why typically in DBZ speed is the stat that is so ridiculous; in DBZ if you move too fast for the other guy to be able to reinforce his body with Ki, as has been shown multiple times, you can OHKO him with minimal effort

2) They're called the Androids, and they repeatedly dunk the Saiyans because they can absorb energy.

#157 Edited by Dratini1331 (7040 posts) - - Show Bio

@thedarklordpandamonium: Makes sense, except only 19 and 20 Absorb I thought. 17 and 18 have limitless energy and no life force.

#158 Edited by BobSaysHi25 (180 posts) - - Show Bio

Enel doesn't move at the speed of lightning his attacks do and his mantra only gives him precog he has to dodge with his own reaction speed which wasn't that impressive so if he fights a fighter that has amazing combat speed he will lose

#159 Posted by Pr0metheus (5416 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: How powerful is Galen then? I mean i know he isnt the best user with a Lightsaber but his Force abilities overpowered Vader and allowed him too beat Sidious if i remember correctly.

#160 Edited by LimpoyzLoan (1646 posts) - - Show Bio

Goku can beat Superman

loljk

#161 Posted by Racob7 (6001 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman beats Goku! *runs away*

Get him! *angry mob chases after you*

#162 Posted by LimpoyzLoan (1646 posts) - - Show Bio

@racob7 said:

@bossmoss4l said:

Superman beats Goku! *runs away*

Get him! *angry mob chases after you*

#163 Edited by Racob7 (6001 posts) - - Show Bio

Spider-Man is funnier than Deadpool.

#164 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (26109 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Indeed. The quality of the battle forum has seriously gone down the toilet these days.

#165 Posted by Dratini1331 (7040 posts) - - Show Bio

Willpower is overrated, overhyped and overused >.<

#166 Posted by Cr4pSnip3r (302 posts) - - Show Bio

Sometimes I feel like most superheroes should inherently lose their respective battles because their powers are simply not possible in real life/logically possible. I know, stupid, but I can't help it. I just get so annoyed.

#167 Posted by Dratini1331 (7040 posts) - - Show Bio

Sometimes I feel like most superheroes should inherently lose their respective battles because their powers are simply not possible in real life/logically possible. I know, stupid, but I can't help it. I just get so annoyed.

lol this is the best position so far XD

#168 Posted by LimpoyzLoan (1646 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331: I like the concept behind it, but yeah, I see what you're saying...


WILLPOWER IS NOT OMNIPOTENCE PEOPLE

#169 Posted by i_like_swords (16564 posts) - - Show Bio

Unpopular battle opinions?

Batman can lose even with prep.

Hulk isn't the strongest there is.

Dunno..

#170 Posted by Dratini1331 (7040 posts) - - Show Bio

Unpopular battle opinions?

Batman can lose even with prep.

Hulk isn't the strongest there is.

Dunno..

NEVER!!!!

trolololololol J/k, but yeah. Hulk is not the strongest one out there.

#171 Posted by Dextersinister (6455 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternityx: I'll just point out one thing the reason Gladiator is not viewed highly despite having a few good feats is because his win to loss ratio is something horrendous like 5:1, he is a very powerful but minor character so writers use him to shill the big bad.

#172 Posted by i_like_swords (16564 posts) - - Show Bio

@i_like_swords said:

Unpopular battle opinions?

Batman can lose even with prep.

Hulk isn't the strongest there is.

Dunno..

NEVER!!!!

trolololololol J/k, but yeah. Hulk is not the strongest one out there.

What the hell. The Hulk could pass for a roid monkey covered in green makeup in that scan. Lol

#173 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (26109 posts) - - Show Bio

@pr0metheus said:

@dccomicsrule2011: How powerful is Galen then? I mean i know he isnt the best user with a Lightsaber but his Force abilities overpowered Vader and allowed him too beat Sidious if i remember correctly.

Palpatine let him win a serious Emperor would crush Galen with a mere gesture. It was made clear in the novel, as for Vader meh.

#174 Posted by LimpoyzLoan (1646 posts) - - Show Bio
#175 Posted by BobSaysHi25 (180 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: yeah it does im not new I just recently made a account and it only seems like the same characters and people only respons to the same thread over and over again to complain and don't comment on original threads

#176 Edited by BobSaysHi25 (180 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister: like when they made him fight pf colossus and magik I think during

AVX to me that whole story arc was wack

Edit:Cyclops Namor and colossus actually apologies

#177 Edited by Pr0metheus (5416 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: Why would Palpatine let him win though? He doesnt get anything out of it.

Also i tried finding scans of the Novel fight and it just skips from one Scan of Palpatine overpowering Starkiller and then skip to the next scan showing Palaptine on the floor with starkiller looking at him.

Well since you say hes not as powerful as Sidious what number you rank Galen? Cause i believe him to be better then Vader but i can agree he isnt as strong as Sidious.

#178 Posted by GraniteSoldier (8589 posts) - - Show Bio

Captain America will take a majority over Batman in a hand to hand fight. He is an equal to him in fighting skill (no, he doesn't have to know 127 martial arts to be an equal to Batman), and he is physically superior to Batman.

I agree with this wholeheartedly, as someone who is not much a Cap fan and Batman being in my top three.

  • People lowballing Peter Parker's intellect and fighting ability, he's probably the absolute top of street levelers, possibly a low mid leveler
  • People making Batman out to be unbeatable with prep, instead of admitting half his prep wins are a load of PIS
  • Flash, in general his fans make him seem completely unbeatable and over-estimate him, I just avoid his threads now
  • any time people use the explanation of "X wins with prep" or "X because he's X"
  • Flash Thompson's Venom gets hated on simply because he isn't Eddie Brock
  • I think Goku vs Superman could go either way
  • Hulk gets hated on a lot (but I can see why sometimes as fanboys ruin him with circular logic arguments, "strongest there is" etc)
  • Last but not least, Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Juggernaut, Hulk, Thor, and many more their threads are boring stop making them and use different characters! I try but they always seem to get looked over since they don't have "popular" characters
#179 Posted by BobSaysHi25 (180 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: lol I tried to make a thread with black Adam because of his hype it didn't work :(

#180 Posted by dondave (38790 posts) - - Show Bio

@dextersinister: like when they made him fight pf colossus and magik I think during

AVX to me that whole story arc was wack

Edit:Cyclops Namor and colossus actually apologies

That's not an unpopular opinion, I think everyone can AvX was a terrible event

#181 Posted by SheenLantern (6860 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier said:

People lowballing Peter Parker's intellect and fighting ability, he's probably the absolute top of street levelers, possibly a low mid leveler

I think it's pretty common knowledge that Spider-Man is king of the street-levelers.

#182 Posted by BobSaysHi25 (180 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: I was just saying that was how I felt you never somewhere out there in this vast world someone loved that story arc :D

#183 Edited by GraniteSoldier (8589 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier said:

People lowballing Peter Parker's intellect and fighting ability, he's probably the absolute top of street levelers, possibly a low mid leveler

I think it's pretty common knowledge that Spider-Man is king of the street-levelers.

I thought so too, I've seen plenty of arguments to the contrary. I don't research people's "debater cred" though so they could just be making ignorant statements. Very vigorous, highly fervent, statements.

#184 Edited by Jmarshmallow (9962 posts) - - Show Bio

Congratulations to the OP of this thread. You've literally made me want to tear my hair out!! That takes skill lol. But who am I to ruin the fun? So I guess if you can't beat em, join em.

1. Calling a feat that you disagree with PIS or WIS is stupid. Do I like the fact that Superman sneezed away a solar system? No. Do I like the fact that characters like Punisher have tagged Spider-Man, despite the fact that he dodges machine gun fire or fun? No. Do I like the fact that Deathstroke tagged Flash? HELLLLLLLLL NO. But do I go and whine about it saying "omgz da wriders r sew stoopid da flash mooves at attoseconds nd outruns newks!!" No, I don't. Anything any character does is a feat, and while it may not be the norm, it still must be taken into account in a battle.

2. We get it. You all love Silver Surfer, because he has access to the Power Cosmic and apparently can "do anything". However, Silver Sufer isn't unstoppable. He's good, but he can not, and I repeat CAN NOT, just turn people into toasters whenever he wants. Just because he has "manipulated matter" like one time, doesn't mean he's suddenly Molecule Man. If that was the case, then Black Panther putting him in a headlock would have ended with Surfer eating some toast.

3. I like Dr. Doom. A lot actually. I respected it when he showed the Beyonder who's boss. That took extreme skill, intelligence, and cunning. But lets not forget the fact that he gets it handed to him by a nerdy rubber man on a daily basis. Doom is good, with or without prep. But he's not god.

4. Speaking of the Beyonder, let me say one thing. HE IS NOT NOR WILL HE EVER BE, PRE OR POST RETCON, EQUAL TO TOAA. He is basically the personification of Stan Lee, which makes him the creator of all Marvel Comics. I don't care if people say "he's just TOAA of another universe!" He is still a creation of Marvel Comics, which makes him under TOAA.

5. Someone needs to make a freaking comic dictionary. Because words like "omnipotent" and "peak human" just get tossed around like it's nothing. There can only be ONE omnipotent in any world of fiction. If there's an equal or greater, then he/she isn't truly omnipotent. With peak human, characters like Batman and Captain America are both in top physical conditioning. Calling one peak human drastically stronger than the other peak human is basically saying that peak human, doesn't actually mean peak human. It's confusing.

6. Batman is a better fighter than Cap. Not saying he'd win in a fight, just saying that his hand to hand is superior. People are right with saying "Knowing more fighting styles doesn't make you a better fighter." However, Bats has specifically MASTERED every style in order to make a, supposedly, infallible fighting style. When going against Cap, Bats should not only recognize all his moves, but have moves made specifically to combat his.

7. I miss DBZ vs. Comics thread. I don't understand why they got rid of them. Because people got a little heated? Boo hoo. The whole point of the battles thread is debate. So what if people get a little excited? Stupidity on the part of a few does not warrant the alienation of a whole fanbase. Not only do people still get mad over comic battles, but now they're bitter about not being able to freely debate. But whatever. P.S. Goku would win by the way *tee hee*

8. People should make more video game related threads. Those are the most fun threads to think about, because they're original! If I wanted to constantly think about comic book battles, I would, ya know, read a comic book.

9. Juggernaut CAN be stopped, Hulk eventually does have a cap off, and Deadpool, Lobo, and Wolverine CAN die. There is no character in DC and Marvel besides TOAA and The Presence who has no limits. While it may be extremely tough to reach those limits, they're still present. Saying "this person wins because they're unstoppable" or "this character will win because he just keeps getting stronger" is absurd, and a terrible way to debate in a battle. I don't care HOW "unstoppable" someone is supposed to be, if they're up against someone more powerful, they can be stopped. For example, in a hypothetical Flash vs. Juggernaut thread, many would say it's a stalemate, because Juggs can't hit Flash and Flash can't hurt Juggs. However, Flash broke through the Anti Monitor's armor, which is most certainly more durable than ole Juggs, no? No limits fallacy my friends.

10. If anyone says "Because he's Batman" in a battle thread, regardless if it involves Batman, he wins by default. I have spoken.

That's good for now I think. Maybe I'll add more later, if need be lol.

Jmarshmallow

#185 Posted by Wolverine08 (45075 posts) - - Show Bio

Congratulations to the OP of this thread. You've literally made me want to tear my hair out!! That takes skill lol. But who am I to ruin the fun? So I guess if you can't beat em, join em.

1. Calling a feat that you disagree with PIS or WIS is stupid. Do I like the fact that Superman sneezed away a solar system? No. Do I like the fact that characters like Punisher have tagged Spider-Man, despite the fact that he dodges machine gun fire or fun? No. Do I like the fact that Deathstroke tagged Flash? HELLLLLLLLL NO. But do I go and whine about it saying "omgz da wriders r sew stoopid da flash mooves at attoseconds nd outruns newks!!" No, I don't. Anything any character does is a feat, and while it may not be the norm, it still must be taken into account in a battle.

2. We get it. You all love Silver Surfer, because he has access to the Power Cosmic and apparently can "do anything". However, Silver Sufer isn't unstoppable. He's good, but he can not, and I repeat CAN NOT, just turn people into toasters whenever he wants. Just because he has "manipulated matter" like one time, doesn't mean he's suddenly Molecule Man. If that was the case, then Black Panther putting him in a headlock would have ended with Surfer eating some toast.

3. I like Dr. Doom. A lot actually. I respected it when he showed the Beyonder who's boss. That took extreme skill, intelligence, and cunning. But lets not forget the fact that he gets it handed to him by a nerdy rubber man on a daily basis. Doom is good, with or without prep. But he's not god.

4. Speaking of the Beyonder, let me say one thing. HE IS NOT NOR WILL HE EVER BE, PRE OR POST RETCON, EQUAL TO TOAA. He is basically the personification of Stan Lee, which makes him the creator of all Marvel Comics. I don't care if people say "he's just TOAA of another universe!" He is still a creation of Marvel Comics, which makes him under TOAA.

5. Someone needs to make a freaking comic dictionary. Because words like "omnipotent" and "peak human" just get tossed around like it's nothing. There can only be ONE omnipotent in any world of fiction. If there's an equal or greater, then he/she isn't truly omnipotent. With peak human, characters like Batman and Captain America are both in top physical conditioning. Calling one peak human drastically stronger than the other peak human is basically saying that peak human, doesn't actually mean peak human. It's confusing.

6. Batman is a better fighter than Cap. Not saying he'd win in a fight, just saying that his hand to hand is superior. People are right with saying "Knowing more fighting styles doesn't make you a better fighter." However, Bats has specifically MASTERED every style in order to make a, supposedly, infallible fighting style. When going against Cap, Bats should not only recognize all his moves, but have moves made specifically to combat his.

7. I miss DBZ vs. Comics thread. I don't understand why they got rid of them. Because people got a little heated? Boo hoo. The whole point of the battles thread is debate. So what if people get a little excited? Stupidity on the part of a few does not warrant the alienation of a whole fanbase. Not only do people still get mad over comic battles, but now they're bitter about not being able to freely debate. But whatever. P.S. Goku would win by the way *tee hee*

8. People should make more video game related threads. Those are the most fun threads to think about, because they're original! If I wanted to constantly think about comic book battles, I would, ya know, read a comic book.

9. Juggernaut CAN be stopped, Hulk eventually does have a cap off, and Deadpool, Lobo, and Wolverine CAN die. There is no character in DC and Marvel besides TOAA and The Presence who has no limits. While it may be extremely tough to reach those limits, they're still present. Saying "this person wins because they're unstoppable" or "this character will win because he just keeps getting stronger" is absurd, and a terrible way to debate in a battle. I don't care HOW "unstoppable" someone is supposed to be, if they're up against someone more powerful, they can be stopped. For example, in a hypothetical Flash vs. Juggernaut thread, many would say it's a stalemate, because Juggs can't hit Flash and Flash can't hurt Juggs. However, Flash broke through the Anti Monitor's armor, which is most certainly more durable than ole Juggs, no? No limits fallacy my friends.

10. If anyone says "Because he's Batman" in a battle thread, regardless if it involves Batman, he wins by default. I have spoken.

That's good for now I think. Maybe I'll add more later, if need be lol.

Jmarshmallow

Captain America does have his own style that he completely mastered into a force of nature. He combines boxing, judo, jujitsu, fencing, Wushu, and gymnastic techniques into a style Black Panther (someone who knows ALL the world's martial arts) described as so hard to beat, because uses his style to "glide", and "adapt" to anything thrown at him. He's an equal to Batman.

#186 Posted by Dratini1331 (7040 posts) - - Show Bio

@eternityx: I'll just point out one thing the reason Gladiator is not viewed highly despite having a few good feats is because his win to loss ratio is something horrendous like 5:1, he is a very powerful but minor character so writers use him to shill the big bad.

Win:Loss is the win to loss ratio =P I'd be thrilled to have a 5:1 W:L in most of my endeavors XD

#187 Posted by Jmarshmallow (9962 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: And that's all fine and good, but that whole "adapt" concept sounds a little familiar? Oh wait! Batman does the same thing, only with 126 different styles. Bats could adapt to anything Cap throws at him, while Caps knowledge is a little bit more limited. I'm still not saying Bats wins in a fight. In fact, I'm on Cap's side. I'm just saying H2H goes to Bats.

Oh and by the way, I'd go as far as to say that BP's statement means little, since Bats was a better fighter than him too, up until the whole King of the Dead shenanigans.

Jmarshmallow

#188 Edited by Wolverine08 (45075 posts) - - Show Bio

@jmarshmallow:

Yea...... no. Batman is not a better fighter than Black Panther. BP has stated on multiple occasions that he knows all the world fighting styles and has been trained in the art of battle since 6. King of the Dead or not, BP is an equal to Batman in fighting skill.

#189 Posted by Dratini1331 (7040 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: @jmarshmallow: BP has arm bared silver surfer, I don't see how batman could possibly win [insert trollface.jpg]

#190 Edited by Jmarshmallow (9962 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Perhaps BP and Bats are equal. We'll never know unless they have a crossover. But both of them are superior to Cap in H2H, of that I have no doubt. Only difference is BP would win in a fight against him, while Bats would probably lose.

Jmarshmallow

#191 Edited by Universalshadow (33 posts) - - Show Bio

@enzeru said:

I don't think that Son-Goku and Vegeta are on pair with characters like Superman and Hyperion. I think that the DBZ warriors have great energy based attacks as well great durability, when it comes to taking such attacks, but tanking physical damage? Most of the DBZ warriors would die almost instantly if someone like Superman would punch them.

What I would like to see is a fight between Son-Goku & Vegeta versus great energy manipulators like Vulcan. I would like to see the two DBZ warriors fight Vulcan and Black Bolt. That fight should be much more even, but unforunately not many people seem to think that DBZ warriors lack durability against physical force and are more about their ki.

Nope. Ki is a physical energy and is everything in DBZ

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-power/what/

including strength:

The warriors in Dragon Ball use ki to surpass the limits of their physical bodies, giving them superhuman strength and speed.

As Toriyama said in the recent Super Exciting Guide databook, training your muscles only gets you so far, and it was ki that allowed Son Goku to become the strongest in the universe.

Just in case your wondering why Goku struggled with 40 tons, he was doing muscle/stamina training while flying and not using ki to enhance his strength as he does in battle in order to train his muscles (which has clear limits according to Toriyama). He turned SSJ in order to power up and restore his stamina at the same time (like in the Frieza battle)

Ki enhanced strikes in DB carry the same amount of ki as ki blasts and thus the same potency/energy as them but are non explosive and concentrated on one point and so don't cause as much enviromental damage as explosive ki blasts. For example:

saiyan space pods can tank atmospheric re-entry, hitting the Earth at re-entry speeds and country level explosions without a scratch:

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/18-009.0/compressed/DBZ_115.jpg

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/18-009.0/compressed/DBZ_119.jpg

http://a.mpcdn.net/manga/p/280/52737/6.jpg

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/18-009.0/compressed/DBZ_121.jpg

Yet Gohan smashed one with a ki enhanced headbutt:

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/17-203.0/compressed/n001.jpg

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/17-203.0/compressed/n004.jpg

That's just how potent their strikes are. The reason why they aren't sending each other flying from continent to continent is because first the attack has to overcome their insane durability to even budge them an inch:

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/32-010.0/compressed/db32_146.jpg

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/32-010.0/compressed/db32_147.jpg

(This doesn't apply if they're caught completely of gaurd which results in characters being kicked clear through islands)

Remember, mid-tiers like Frieza laughed off multiple planet busters and a planetary explosion while near death, chopped in half and pushed inside the planet itself. That's the kind of durability I'm talking about.

This ki-enhanced strength is what allows them to hold back ki-blasts which can tear through and destroy entire planets through force alone:

Frieza holding back Goku's kaio-ken x20 kamehameha:

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/26-013.0/compressed/db26_183.jpg

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/26-013.0/compressed/db26_184.jpg

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/26-013.0/compressed/db26_185.jpg

Frieza pushing against Goku's spirit bomb:

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/27-003.0/compressed/db27_045.jpg

Goku holding back Frieza's ki blast:

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/26-008.0/compressed/db26_113.jpg

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/26-008.0/compressed/db26_114.jpg

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/26-008.0/compressed/db26_115.jpg

Which shows that their ki amped strength rivals that of their ki blasts.

Also DBZ characters can only be hurt by ki-blasts and ki strikes in the same PL range thus carrying the same amount of ki/energy. For example:

Raditz was hurt by Gohan's ki amped headbutt with a PL of 1300:

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/17-203.0/compressed/n004.jpg

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/17-203.0/compressed/n005.jpg

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/17-203.0/compressed/n006.jpg

Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon was needed to finish him off with a PL of 1300:

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/17-201.0/compressed/j013.jpg

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/17-201.0/compressed/j014.jpg

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/17-203.0/compressed/n014.jpg

Keep in mind that a ki blast with a PL of 300 is enough to destroy the moon:

Piccolo moon bust page 1

Piccolo moon bust page 2

That's the kind of concentrated energy we're talking about.

Fun fact Piccolo used the exact same attack on Raditz and he laughed at it:

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/17-195.0/compressed/r018.jpg

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/17-195.0/compressed/r019.jpg

http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/214/17-195.0/compressed/r020.jpg

Still not convinced?

Well in the new canon DBZ film: Battle of Gods:

Goku punches clear through King Kai's planet

As it's so small but has 10X Earth's gravity the density would be insane as this calc shows:

It doesn't matter here the dimension of the planet, but the density, since we are talking about a PUNCH, not a Ki blast.

King Kai's planet is not more than 30 meters in diameter (pixels-scaling), but even if it is 40, 50 or 90 meters, the order of magnitude, physically talking, is still the same (i.e. 10).

Now, gravitational force of a planet is given by this formula:

F = (G*M*m)/r^2

G is the universal gravitational constant (6,67*10^-11 [m^3/(kg*s^2)];

M is the mass of the planet

m is the generic reference mass

r is the radius of the planet (or distance between the two masses' centers)

Since King Kai's gravitational force is 10 times the Earth gravitational force, we have Fk (gravitational force of King Kai's planet) 10 times bigger than Fe (Earth's gravity).

Fk/Fe = [(G*Mk*m)/rk^2]/[(G*Me*m)/re^2] = 10

G and m are in commons and go away, so we have:

(Mk/rk^2)/(Me/re^2) = 10

Mass is Volume (V)*Density (D), with Volume (of a generical planet) = (4/3)*π*r^3;

back to the formula:

((4/3)*π*rk^3*Dk)/rk^2 = Fk and ((4/3)*π*re^3*De)/re^2 = Fe, so:

Fk/Fe = (Dk*rk)/(De*re) = 10.

The only unknown term is Dk (density of King Kai's planet), while we know De and re of Earth and rk = 15 meters (assuming a diameter of King Kai's planet of 30 m, as previously said).

So, Dk = 1,17*10^10 kg/m^3, while density of Earth (De) is 5,5153*10^3 kg/m^3, so the density of King Kai's planet is around 2 millions of times higher than the desnity of Earth, and Goku punched a whole hole throughout this material.

The most dense material known is Osmium, which has a density of 22661 kg/m^3, and, because of that, it's also the material which is most resistant to compression (462 GPa).

King Kai's planet is still half a million times more dense than this, and thus even way more resistant to physical compression.

Even if King Kai's planet had the same gravitational force as Earth, the fact it has such a small diameter would still imply a huge density, and indeed, it would still have a density around 200000 times bigger than the density of Earth.

Dou you have some info about that planet destroyed by Gladiator?

Because it could be a planet 2 times bigger than Earth, but 100 times less dense, making this feat pale compared to Goku's striking punch.

Indeed, what really matters when talking about physical punches is the density, and AT, giving us a planet of a few meters of diameter and with a gravitational force 10 times bigger than the one on Earth, is indisputably giving us that previously said enormous level of density.

Imaging taking a cube of 1 meter of each side of the following materials:

- average Sun composition: it would weigh around 1,4 tons;

- average Earth composition: it would weigh around 5,5 tons;

- core of the Sun material: it would weigh 150 tons;

- King Kai's planet material: it would weigh around 10 millions tons;

- Neutron Star material: it would weigh around 280000 billions tons.

Punching the core of the Sun would obviously require inhuman physical strength, regardless of how much matter, in kg, you punch away; even worse would be just trying to physically scratch the surface of a Neutron Star.

Well, a not even bloodlusted Ssj3 Goku actually vaporizes, with one punch, a whole quantity of a material which, according to canon info about King Kai's planet, has thousands of times the density of the core of the Sun.

This is insane, literally insane.

Punching the Earth material for Goku would thus be a joke: for him, it would be like punching air, and the Earth would collapse on itself.

http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t1867660-odin-force-thor-vs-goku-super-saiyan-3/4.htm

Keep in mind that when Goku turned SSJ3 on Earth it almost quaked into oblivion, yet when he transformed on King Kai's planet it didn't even shake.

#192 Posted by Jmarshmallow (9962 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331: Lol that's a very good point. Now that I think about it, BP could probably take the entire Justice League!! I mean, Surfer could stomp the JL, and Panther whooped Surfer!! So logic dictates...

Jmarshmallow

#193 Posted by Dratini1331 (7040 posts) - - Show Bio

@universalshadow: Don't make this into a DBZ feats thread please, I dun want it locked :3

@jmarshmallow: I know right. I mean, BP armbar is just so OP. Nerf please Marvel =|

#194 Posted by Universalshadow (33 posts) - - Show Bio

@dratini1331: I'm sorry, I couldn't resist the temptation :P

#195 Edited by GMMB (14 posts) - - Show Bio

Quasar can beat any color Lantern

Silver Surfer is not invincible and the list of characters that can beat him is long

Captain Marvel(DC) can beat Superman or Wonder Woman

Batman with prep can't beat everyone

Flash's speed does not make him invincible

#196 Edited by ShootingNova (18682 posts) - - Show Bio
@dccomicsrule2011 said:

I hate Star Wars EU threads on comicvine because mostly everyone that post knows little to nothing about the EU (I miss the days when @Silver2467: , @Jedixman: and @Shootingnova: used to have classic EU debates =( Though most of the times I just watched and learned from the masters)

People need to stop putting me on their level.

Aside from RL issues and just slothing around, the majority of the posters in the battles forum have made it difficult for us to post anything productive in the forums nowadays.

And why would you hate EU threads? Your meant to teach those who don't know, not hate them for not knowing. Unless you're referencing the trolls, in which case I would agree.

#197 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (26109 posts) - - Show Bio

@shootingnova: I put you up there because your levels above people like me when it comes to EU ;D

That's what I meant lol. I have no problem helping those who are not fimilar with the lore. The ones that discredit the EU by calling it non canon and watched the movies and think they know everything about Star Wars in the one that get under my skin. I'm not even going to get started with the ones who ignore canon and feats. There was once a "who would win if all these Sith Lord battled theard" and majority of the users selected Nihilus even though Darth Sidious, Darth Plagueis,Darth Cadeus and Darth Vader was included. Once I gave qoutes proving Palpatine is the most powerful Sith Lord and draining him is futile users still said "Oh Nihilus was not a Sith so saying Palpatine is the most powerful Sith means nothing" after I explained to him/her, he is indeed a Sith lord they still denied it. Then another user said Sidious was ranked number 5 or 6 on the list and another users replied @ me and said Darth Bane would have been the most powerful with the proper traning and he did not lose to Zanah he put a peice of himself inside of Zannah. That si when I just said forget the thread because the amount of ignorance made my brain hurt. And countless other EU threads have been made that are just as bad or maybe even worse then that one. Like people saying AOTC Obi-Wan would stomp Rebellion era Luke, so and so on. The ignorance on the battle forum in general these days are getting out of hand and it is getting worse and worse.

#198 Edited by ShootingNova (18682 posts) - - Show Bio

@dccomicsrule2011: I understand what you're saying. It's frustrating when there's people that don't listen.

#199 Posted by Dratini1331 (7040 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't even know what the EU of star wars EU means...

#200 Posted by Jmarshmallow (9962 posts) - - Show Bio

@gmmb: Actually, I'm pretty sure that most people on this site believe that Batman, even with prep, can't beat everyone. From the looks of it, many seem to think that the list of people he CAN beat is actually rather short.

Apparently, Batman's no longer cool, but hating on him is on the rage. Hipsters and their mood swings I suppose.

Jmarshmallow