Unpopular Battle opinions

Captain America can fight and beat Mid-level characters without it being called PIS. And he has done it consistently since the 60's.

and on a some what related note

Not all street levelers are peak human. That term gets thrown around so much its crazy. Peak human should mean EVERYTHING about a person is at the limit of human potential.

I'd actually agree with both of these.

Also: Agent Venom > Venom.

Thank you.

No way, man. Don't be silly. Black Panther is, essentially, Marvel's Batman. There is no question.

I wasn't thinking primarily about appearance, but since you mention it, yes, their costumes do have a couple of striking similarities. Both wear dark colors, both wear cape and cowl, and both have masks with pointy ears... except one is based on a bat and the other on a cat, as you already know .

Yes, I understand that their goals and morals are different. However, for someone who has read a lot of Black Panther, I am honestly a little surprised that you don't see, despite the goals and morals thing, that Panther is Marvel's equivalent to Batman... in just about every other way that counts.

I've no doubt you know all this, but here's a quick refresher anyway...

Origins: Both characters' parent/s were either killed or murdered, which in turn propelled them into their respective roles as super heroes. T'challa and Bruce were destined to be great leaders anyway, but this event was the catalyst that pushed them to be something more.

World Travel: Both have studied abroad from a young age, learning the ways of the world.

Martial Arts/Fighting: Both are recognized as having mastered every known fighting art on earth. Again, both have traveled the world and trained in combat (among other things) from a very young age.

Resources/Wealth: Thanks to their families, both inherited incredible amounts of wealth and hyper advanced technology, which each uses in his fight against evil/crime, because one is the leader of a mega company and the other the leader of a nation.

Influence/Connections: Both are highly influential in the world due to their respective positions in society/culture. Each of them uses his connections frequently in the comics to help in his fight against evil, or to help other super heroes and allies.

Intelligence: Both characters are at least among the "top five" in their respective worlds. They're among the smartest men alive, and recognized as such for their genius/cunning in just about every known field of study. Along with this, both have been shown to be extraordinary inventors.

Team Affiliation: Both were original members of the greatest superhero team on their respective worlds. (i.e. Justice League/Avengers)

Strength: Until more recently, both characters were considered to be essentially "peak human" (in comic book terms). And both have consistently been shown to be able to successfully fight well above their "power tier" thanks to intellect, cunning, skill, and gadgetry. Panther is officially considered "super human," whereas Batman is pretty much super human too (by real-world standards), except that DC doesn't label him as such.

Gadgets: Both are known for using a wide range of advanced gadgets/weapons in battle. They are frequently shown using their gear to get the drop on opponents weak and strong.

Acrobatics: Both are master acrobats.

Marksmanship: Both are master marksmen.

Weapons: Both have mastered every known weapon and armed combat technique.

Linguistics: Both are known to be fluent in multiple languages.

Tracking/Hunting: Both are master trackers/hunters.

Stealth: Both are masters of stealth and are frequently shown using this ability in the comics to get the drop on their opponents... even the super-powered ones.

Strategy: Both are master strategists/tacticians. Again, both are easily "top five" status on their worlds.

Costumes: Already touched on this a bit, but both have similar costumes in design and function. Each of their costumes is considered to utilize some of the most advance technology on their respective worlds.

............

and on and on and on....

Good grief, man. I don't know how you can say these characters aren't more or less parallel universe versions of each other... but you even go so far as to say they "really aren't that similar?"

No way. They are very similar. And even just in the way each character typically operates while under his hero persona... his "vibe" if you will. Each tends to act calm, cool, and calculated, showing very little emotion and stress under fire... always seeming to have an answer for everything... as well as mysterious, stealthy, and somewhat unapproachable around other heroes.

@omnicrono:

There are lots of characters who have that skill set in comics. Actually, most street levelers tend to have those skills for their vigilante work. Are they all Batman wannabees? Having similar skills doesn't really make you a knock off. And citing his origin as being similar to Batman's is just plain silly. Tell me one hero that hasn't had their parents die? And T'Challa has always been an enhanced human. Only recently did he become a legit superhuman due to the Panther God blessing him. And that's just two of the problems you mad with comparing their skillsets. If anything, I think Daredevil is the closet thing Marvel thing has to a Batman. Only difference is that Daredevil isn't as rich as Batman, so he works on a smaller scale than Bruce.

You are kidding me, right? Good gravy!

Yes, many characters have SOME of those skill sets or a small combination of them. But NO character (in Marvel) has as many similar/parallel skill sets that are also so closely entwined with a similar hero origin, social standing, influence among other heroes, costume design/function, along with the general "vibe" that is given off, as Black Panther does with Batman. Did you read my entire post? I listed more similarities than just skill sets.

EDIT: Yep, Daredevil is also similar in many ways to Batman, but not in as many ways as Panther. Not even close.

• Anime Characters consistently get under-rated due to anime hate
  • In most cases Anime comes from Manga as source material. Manga = Comics. This website is called ComicVine. Not SuperHeroComicsOnlyVine.
  • I fear for Naruto topics to go the way of DBZ here. Not an unpopular opinion but I thought it was worth mentioning now.
• Kamui is not Kakashis only ability.
• Thor is consistently under-rated.
  • I'm tired of these subtle jabs in the movie verse where people try to say Thor isn't technically a god. Also not unpopular opinion just felt it was good time to say it.
• Superman is consistently over-rated.
• Aquaman isn't useless.
• I think Deadpool can defeat Deathstroke.
• Vanilla Green Lantern by technical standards should be able to take vanilla Superman.
• The boots of Hermes only grant Kratos raw speed. He still lacks superior reflexes that would allow him to optimize it's use.
  • Dante defeats Kratos after a tough battle.
• Goku can hold his own against high tiers better than people give him credit for.
• Spiderman is under-rated in the intelligence department.

I totally agree with you about Kakashi. I didn't realize this was an unpopular view.

@wolverine08:

So, going back to your Daredevil comparison, let's look at some of his key similarities to Batman. You'll see that even in the key traits where DD and Bats are similar, Black Panther is even more similar than DD! (the traits that most "streetlevelers" share, as you say)...

Marksmanship: DD is noted as an "expert." BP and Bats are noted as "masters."

Weapons: DD is noted as being "proficient." BP and Bats are "masters."

Martial Arts: DD is noted to be a master, but he is not noted as having mastered every fighting style on earth. BP and Bats are noted as both.

Tracking: DD is noted as an "expert." BP and Bats are noted to be "masters."

Strength: DD is nowhere near "peak human" or beyond. BP and Batman are both.

Intelligence: DD is noted as being "gifted," but not a genius. BP and Bats are noted as being geniuses of the highest caliber.

In addition to these, and unlike BP and Bats, DD is...

-not wealthy on anywhere near their level

-not known to be a gifted linguist

-not known for stealth

-not known as an inventor

-not known as a strategist

-not known for his gadgets

-not known to be affiliated with the greatest super hero team on earth, let alone as an original member

In fact, the only way that DD is probably more similar to Bats than BP, is in that he is more of a detective like Bats. But that's it. His costume isn't even all that dark. It's crimson red.

Seriously, it's an open and shut case, man. I still can't believe you would think otherwise. Oh well... to each his own.

Marvel>Dc my opinion

Most overrated characters: Dr. Manhattan, Galactus, Odin, Silver Surfer, Thanos, Flash, MoS Superman, Dr. Doom, Batman, Zoom, H/P Doomsday.

Let's also throw in Anti-Monitor, Monarch, Superman-Prime, Imperiex, Silver Age Superman, Pre-Crisis Darkseid, Nekron, etc. And that's just DC off the top of my head.

Most of the things you listed are standard street leveler stuff. Being a master martial artist, being a master marksmen (arrows, guns, etc.), carrying gadgets, having parents that died, etc are standard street leveler things in comics. And I'm starting to wonder if you just copied and pasted that stuff because there are several incorrect things in there. Black Panther isn't in the top five intelligence wise he's number 8 in Marvel (stated on panel). He didn't travel abroad to learn martial arts, he was trained in Wakanda. He only went abroad to attend college in various prestigious universities. He always been an enhanced human (due to eating the ancient herb of Wakanda) not a peak human, and only recently became superhuman after the Panther God made him the King of the Dead. Finally, he was originally affiliated with Fantastic Four, not the Avengers.

I'm not trying to be rude here, but most of the time when I see people say that Black Panther is a Batman ripoff they just look like they are just looking superficially at the outside, and just haven't read a Black Panther comic in their life.

Captain America has 90% of what you just said, is he all of a sudden a Batman wannabe?

Besides, majority of what you said is just saying stats that nearly every street level character has.

Origins are completely different, saying they are similar is just crazy. Bruce became Batman due to seeing his parents dying right in front of him and wanted to avenge them by fighting crime. T'calla became the panther because its part of a ritual in his country and wanting some revenge for Klaw killing his father.

@norrinboltagonprime21:

Exactly.

It's more like whenever you bring up Kakashi it's all people talk about.

No worries. Didn't copy and paste a thing. And I'm not trying to be rude either. It's just that for someone to say Daredevil is more similar to Batman than is Black Panther, I begin to question just how much knowledge of all these characters that person really has. I mean no disrespect. Anyone looking at only the surface of Daredevil and Batman could easily think that DD is more similar to Batman because DD - operates primarily in a big city, like Bats, swings from buildings like Bats, and has the whole "vigilante" persona on the surface.

Yes, the Top 5 was just from me... because I personally believe BP is in the top 5, regardless of what the Marvel panel says (that panel is full of inconsistencies and I don't believe any reader should take it at face value).

I fully know that BP has always been just above peak human because of the herb of Wakanda. Never said that he wasn't, only meant that now he is even beyond that into super human levels. My comparison, if you read it, was that even Batman, though considered "peak human" officially, is actually beyond that and was pretty much right on par with BP before BP's recent boost.

Furthermore, I never said that BP wasn't affiliated with the Fantastic Four before he was with the Avengers. Why are you bringing that up? You missed the point entirely. My point was that he was one of the original members of the world's greatest super hero team in Marvel (The Avengers), just as Batman was an original member of DC's greatest super hero team (Justice League).

Finally, I said "both have traveled the world and trained in combat from a very young age." I agree that I could have worded this better, but all I meant was that BP has been trained in all the world's martial arts, just as Batman has been.

Black Panther is far and away the most similar character to Batman in Marvel.

@kotetsu454: you're right, but kamui and chidori are his only techniques.

friendly conversation please? :)

1. agreed 100%. people lowball the hell out of all anime/manga characters...but they are severely overrated sometimes too.

2. I also agree here. thor is very underrated. sometimes I think the writers themselves underrate thor severely

3. now this is the one I disagree with. I think superman is underrated a lot too. im debating with someone now who is arguing that superman couldnt survive a nuke, is slower than lightening and cant hit harder than it would take to topple a small mountain. and this isn't the first time ive debated someone who low balls supes. it happens a lot

4. totally agreed here. aquaman is one of my absolute favorite characters. id love to write him one day

5. here I have a simple disagreement. I think slade is too smart and would figure a way to win.

6. totally agreed. people must dislike anime or just dislike dbz in genral. goku has his limits but his limits are very high as well

7. I agree here totally but I don't think the writers give him enough intelligence feats. he's brilliant and deserves to have that displayed on panel

@cooldes said:

• Basic sharringan use
• earth, and water release, (and fire in the anime)
• Thousand years of death (kinda a joke ability)
• Headhunter Jutsu
• Ninja Hound summoning
• Shadow clones
• substitutions
• Low level genjutsu
• multiple weapon proficiency

Thus why am I am slightly annoyed when Kamui and Hidori are all people mention.

Wow.

Superman has never been said to have unlimited strength. Don't try comparing Superman's history to the Hulk. It makes no sense.

Silver Surfer has demonstrated to amp himself to no end with his "power cosmic". I can accept him being limltlessly powerful with no problem.

When you see something being said and vividly shown about a character you call it hyperbole when its someone you don't like and then call it fact when its a character you like? That's hypocritcal, man. Pretending to care about facts when you actually don't is being a hypocrite, and ultimately, a liar.

*sigh* You're missing my point. I was trying to use your logic against you but I guess that went over your head. I was trying to show you that hyperbolic statements have no credibility because many characters have the claim of unlimited power or strength when they really don't. All those heroes have limits and that includes Hulk. The only beings with unlimited power are abstract concepts like death or the living tribunal, anybody below them doesn't.

Gallery

In both those scans, both heroes say they have unlimited strength. According to your logic, Thor and Superman must also have unlimited strength as well as hulk because somebody made a hyperbolic claim about them.

I'm the hypocrite because you can't provide one scan of Hulk showing unlimited strength? Ok........

@norrinboltagonprime21 said:

@dum529001 said:

@norrinboltagonprime21 said:

@dum529001 said:

@norrinboltagonprime21 said:

@dum529001 said:

@norrinboltagonprime21: @sog7dc:

I can agree with everything you just said except one thing. You said Hulk doesn't have unlimited strength when its a fact, and a proven one, that he does.

No, its not. Its a hyperbolic statement taken out of context. Beyonder said Hulk had the potential, potential is meaningless and he's never shown it to be considered in anyway true.

You can interchange words and change the context as much as you want. It means nothing and changes nothing. Hulk's strength potential has no limit. That means its limitless. That means it can go on forever. Get the picture?

"Potential" in the instance you used means actually having the ability in practice not just in theory. A rock or a bunny can have limitless strength since the energy of the universe has no nounds but do they actually have limitless strength? Do they have the abilty to access limitless energy in their current state? Not everyone can grow strength to no end but Hulk can. That's the point.

The fact that Hulk has limitless strength been stated mutiple times, not just with the Beyonder.

Hulk has limitless strength. There's nothing to argue about in this case. Your refusal to accept this fact does not change it.

You just argued against your own point.

Thor is said to have unlimited strength, is this true? Superman is said to have unlimited strength, is this true? Silver Surfer is said to have unlimited power, is this true? I could go on and on stating hyperbolic statements that I could easily argue is true using your logic because a character "claimed" it to be true.

Here on comic vine we go by actual feats, not hyperbolic statements. They're meant to exaggerate claims to make a character seem more powerful than they really are, it happens all the time.

Btw, if it was really a fact, it would've been shown happening on panel several times. But since it's never happened, its not a fact.

Wow.

Superman has never been said to have unlimites strength. Don't try comparing Superman's history to the Hulk. It makes no sense.

Silver Surfer has demonstrated to amp himself to no end with his "power cosmic". I can accept him being limltlessly powerful with no problem.

When you see something being said and vividly shown about a character you call it hyperbole when its someone you don't like and then call it fact when its a character you like? That's hypocritcal, man. Pretending to care about facts when you actually don't is being a hypocrite, and ultimately, a liar.

*sigh* You're missing my point. I was trying to use your logic against you but I guess that went over your head. I was trying to show you that hyperbolic statements have no credibility because many characters have the claim of unlimited power or strength when they really don't. All those heroes have limits and that includes Hulk. The only beings with unlimited power are abstract concepts like death or the living tribunal, anybody below them doesn't.

Gallery

In both those scans, both heroes say they have unlimited strength. According to your logic, Thor and Superman must also have unlimited strength as well as hulk because somebody made a hyperbolic claim about them.

I'm the hypocrite because you can't provide one scan of Hulk showing unlimited strength? Ok........

Hulk's claim to that is not just empty words. Its part of his character concept given to him by his creators, Its been stated on-panel and put to the test mutiple times.

You have no way to disprove it because its a fact. It sfact whether or not you except it.

Abstracts are not the only ones with unlimited power. If you actually think that then you really don't know enough about comic characters. Having lots of strength is nto the same as having unlimted strength. Eventually, you will reach a limit no matter how great your strength is unless your strength is limitless. And in that scan you're using, the extra-dose of energy Superman absorbed overloaded his cells and was starting to kill him(its on the next page).

Again, Thor and Superman have been never said to have limitless strength. Thor's power does not increase the more he's beaten on. Thor likes to brag with empty words sometimes but its been proven he does not have dynamic strength like the Hulk, who increases his strength within the moment he is being put under stress, in direct proportion to that stress.

@dum529001 said:

@norrinboltagonprime21 said:

@dum529001 said:

@norrinboltagonprime21 said:

@dum529001 said:

@norrinboltagonprime21 said:

@dum529001 said:

@norrinboltagonprime21: @sog7dc:

I can agree with everything you just said except one thing. You said Hulk doesn't have unlimited strength when its a fact, and a proven one, that he does.

No, its not. Its a hyperbolic statement taken out of context. Beyonder said Hulk had the potential, potential is meaningless and he's never shown it to be considered in anyway true.

You can interchange words and change the context as much as you want. It means nothing and changes nothing. Hulk's strength potential has no limit. That means its limitless. That means it can go on forever. Get the picture?

"Potential" in the instance you used means actually having the ability in practice not just in theory. A rock or a bunny can have limitless strength since the energy of the universe has no nounds but do they actually have limitless strength? Do they have the abilty to access limitless energy in their current state? Not everyone can grow strength to no end but Hulk can. That's the point.

The fact that Hulk has limitless strength been stated mutiple times, not just with the Beyonder.

Hulk has limitless strength. There's nothing to argue about in this case. Your refusal to accept this fact does not change it.

You just argued against your own point.

Thor is said to have unlimited strength, is this true? Superman is said to have unlimited strength, is this true? Silver Surfer is said to have unlimited power, is this true? I could go on and on stating hyperbolic statements that I could easily argue is true using your logic because a character "claimed" it to be true.

Here on comic vine we go by actual feats, not hyperbolic statements. They're meant to exaggerate claims to make a character seem more powerful than they really are, it happens all the time.

Btw, if it was really a fact, it would've been shown happening on panel several times. But since it's never happened, its not a fact.

Wow.

Superman has never been said to have unlimites strength. Don't try comparing Superman's history to the Hulk. It makes no sense.

Silver Surfer has demonstrated to amp himself to no end with his "power cosmic". I can accept him being limltlessly powerful with no problem.

When you see something being said and vividly shown about a character you call it hyperbole when its someone you don't like and then call it fact when its a character you like? That's hypocritcal, man. Pretending to care about facts when you actually don't is being a hypocrite, and ultimately, a liar.

*sigh* You're missing my point. I was trying to use your logic against you but I guess that went over your head. I was trying to show you that hyperbolic statements have no credibility because many characters have the claim of unlimited power or strength when they really don't. All those heroes have limits and that includes Hulk. The only beings with unlimited power are abstract concepts like death or the living tribunal, anybody below them doesn't.

Gallery

In both those scans, both heroes say they have unlimited strength. According to your logic, Thor and Superman must also have unlimited strength as well as hulk because somebody made a hyperbolic claim about them.

I'm the hypocrite because you can't provide one scan of Hulk showing unlimited strength? Ok........

Hulk's claim to that is not just empty words. Its part of his character concept given to him by his creators, Its been stated on-panel and put to the test mutiple times.

You have no way to disprove it because its a fact. It sfact whether or not you except it.

Abstracts are not the only ones with unlimited power. If you actually think that then you really don't know enough about comic characters. Having lots of strength is nto the same as having unlimted strength. Eventually, you will reach a limit no matter how great your strength is unless your strength is limitless. And in that scan you're using, the extra-dose of energy Superman absorbed overloaded his cells and was starting to kill him(its on the next page).

Again, Thor and Superman have been never said to have limitless strength. Thor's power does not increase the more he's beaten on. Thor likes to brag with empty words sometimes but its been proven he does not have dynamic strength like the Hulk, who increases his strength within the moment he is being put under stress, in direct proportion to that stress.

You disclaim Thor because he likes to brag but Hulk doesn't!?!?!? All Hulk does is brag!! And you still have zero evidence besides hyperbolic statements which are just as credible as Thor and Superman saying they have unlimited strength.

@norrinboltagonprime21 said:

@dum529001 said:

@norrinboltagonprime21 said:

@dum529001 said:

@norrinboltagonprime21 said:

@dum529001 said:

@norrinboltagonprime21 said:

@dum529001 said:

@norrinboltagonprime21: @sog7dc:

I can agree with everything you just said except one thing. You said Hulk doesn't have unlimited strength when its a fact, and a proven one, that he does.

No, its not. Its a hyperbolic statement taken out of context. Beyonder said Hulk had the potential, potential is meaningless and he's never shown it to be considered in anyway true.

You can interchange words and change the context as much as you want. It means nothing and changes nothing. Hulk's strength potential has no limit. That means its limitless. That means it can go on forever. Get the picture?

"Potential" in the instance you used means actually having the ability in practice not just in theory. A rock or a bunny can have limitless strength since the energy of the universe has no nounds but do they actually have limitless strength? Do they have the abilty to access limitless energy in their current state? Not everyone can grow strength to no end but Hulk can. That's the point.

The fact that Hulk has limitless strength been stated mutiple times, not just with the Beyonder.

Hulk has limitless strength. There's nothing to argue about in this case. Your refusal to accept this fact does not change it.

You just argued against your own point.

Thor is said to have unlimited strength, is this true? Superman is said to have unlimited strength, is this true? Silver Surfer is said to have unlimited power, is this true? I could go on and on stating hyperbolic statements that I could easily argue is true using your logic because a character "claimed" it to be true.

Here on comic vine we go by actual feats, not hyperbolic statements. They're meant to exaggerate claims to make a character seem more powerful than they really are, it happens all the time.

Btw, if it was really a fact, it would've been shown happening on panel several times. But since it's never happened, its not a fact.

Wow.

Superman has never been said to have unlimites strength. Don't try comparing Superman's history to the Hulk. It makes no sense.

Silver Surfer has demonstrated to amp himself to no end with his "power cosmic". I can accept him being limltlessly powerful with no problem.

When you see something being said and vividly shown about a character you call it hyperbole when its someone you don't like and then call it fact when its a character you like? That's hypocritcal, man. Pretending to care about facts when you actually don't is being a hypocrite, and ultimately, a liar.

*sigh* You're missing my point. I was trying to use your logic against you but I guess that went over your head. I was trying to show you that hyperbolic statements have no credibility because many characters have the claim of unlimited power or strength when they really don't. All those heroes have limits and that includes Hulk. The only beings with unlimited power are abstract concepts like death or the living tribunal, anybody below them doesn't.

Gallery

In both those scans, both heroes say they have unlimited strength. According to your logic, Thor and Superman must also have unlimited strength as well as hulk because somebody made a hyperbolic claim about them.

I'm the hypocrite because you can't provide one scan of Hulk showing unlimited strength? Ok........

Hulk's claim to that is not just empty words. Its part of his character concept given to him by his creators, Its been stated on-panel and put to the test mutiple times.

You have no way to disprove it because its a fact. It sfact whether or not you except it.

Abstracts are not the only ones with unlimited power. If you actually think that then you really don't know enough about comic characters. Having lots of strength is nto the same as having unlimted strength. Eventually, you will reach a limit no matter how great your strength is unless your strength is limitless. And in that scan you're using, the extra-dose of energy Superman absorbed overloaded his cells and was starting to kill him(its on the next page).

Again, Thor and Superman have been never said to have limitless strength. Thor's power does not increase the more he's beaten on. Thor likes to brag with empty words sometimes but its been proven he does not have dynamic strength like the Hulk, who increases his strength within the moment he is being put under stress, in direct proportion to that stress.

You disclaim Thor because he likes to brag but Hulk doesn't!?!?!? All Hulk does is brag!! And you still have zero evidence besides hyperbolic statements which are just as credible as Thor and Superman saying they have unlimited strength.

Again, Hulk's statments are backed up and re-stated by his creators, the narrator of the story, as well as being explicitly shown and proven on-panel.

Hulk has unlimited strength. Its a fact whether you like it or not.

@dum529001: So you would agree that pre-52 superman can shatter planets with his punches?

I think he's done it a couple of times(or something equal to it). At least once if I'm recalling it correctly.

- Aquaman is hilariously underrated. Even Pre-52. (especially his Waterhand)

- Bleach, Naruto, Dragonball Z and to a lesser extent One Piece characters are all overrated to some extreme.

- Wonder Women is the best combination of strength/speed/skill and would destroy most characters

@sog7dc:

To some degree I will admit to have bias towards superman. Compared to other high tiers like Thor and Hulk and -does shifty eyes and whispers- Goku...and such I just think he gets put on too high of a pedestal.

Though no hard feelings either way. I've been on forums in general long enough to know how flame wars truly start and don't plan on it today.

I think perhaps he meant that kamui and chidori are Kakashi's only original technigues... as in they are the only techniques that he created. But even that wouldn't really be true, because all of Kakashi's sharingan eye jutsu, such as kamui, are technically stolen from Obito, because it was Obito's eye first.

However, whether one created the jutsu or not, it shouldn't really matter if that character is a major stud. And Kakashi is a major stud. It's not about who created the jutsu, but about who uses his jutsu the most effectively.

Don't forget, Kakashi also knows...

• Lightning Cutter (enhanced form of chidori) and can use it in both hands simultaneously
• Other variants on his lightning tech, such as lightning chain and infusing kunai with lightning
• How to open at least the first of the Eight Gates (no one else besides Gai and Lee have been shown to be able to open any of the Gates)
• High-level sealing techniques (as shown in the chuunin exam arc when Orochimaru remarks that it is impressive he is able to seal Sasuke's curse mark)
• How to use rasengan (Naruto, Jiraiya, and Minato being the only others shown to be able to do so)

Ah, okay. For starters, sorry about my copy and paste comment. That was kind of rude on my part. I think Black Panther is number sixth in regards to intelligence among Marvel humans, and I don't think Batman was really on par with him physicaly. And overall, while I agree that Black Panther and Batman do have similarities, through writers like Christopher Priest, etc. Black Panther and his mythos have become their own idiosyncratic part of the Marvel universe, and I just find the idea of him being a rip off/wannabee of Batman to be highly incorrect.

@linkxv1: If you ever run for president, you have my vote. I pretty much agree with everything you said.

Just because characters avoid getting hit by bullets does not mean that they are a legitimate bullet timer. Most people have no idea how aimdodging even works.

Also, simply because a character is knowledgeable in many different fighting styles, that does not mean they cannot be defeated by another who use a single discipline.

No worries, no worries. We can agree to disagree.

As for where I'd rank his intellect...

1. Reed Richards

2. Victor von Doom

3. Bruce Banner

4. Hank Pym

5. T'Challa

6. Tony Stark

Hmmm, my list is pretty similar to yours.

1. Reed Richards

2. Doctor Doom

3. Hank Pym

4. Bruce Banner

5. Tony Stark

@wolverine08:

Indeed! Very similar. :)

1.) Tombstone should be incredibly hard to beat by any street leveler and there can be strong arguments made as to why.

2.) Captain America is at a higher physical level then Batman is, same with Black Panther.

3.) Deadpool is not just some joke character. If we went by his early appearances and not the stuff from the last 5 years or so, he'd win in a lot of fights.

4.) With the right amount of preptime, I think that Black Panther could take nearly any character out. The guy is simply a beast.

5.) Just because the argument of "this street leveler has dodged bullets" does mean they CAN dodge bullets. Moving targets are hard to hit, but it doesn't mean that the target is actually dodging the bullet, just the person's aim.

6.) Wolverine is smarter than Captain America, or atleast as smart.

Green Ranger Tommy Oliver as well a Red Ranger Jason are EXTREMELY overrated. Most people side eith them purely for nostalgia's sake. These days, almost every ranger, special or not gets a personal power up mode, any of them could arguably take Jason or Tommy.

-Superman would beat Base Goku (without Kaioken); SSj1 Goku would beat Superman (assuming Superman is beaten quickly as he potentially gets stronger under YellowSunLight)

-I like Superior Spiderman and it has given me the most entertainment and enjoyment than all 700 issues and side-stories of amazing spiderman combined (from what Ive watched from Linkara)

-Captain America can beat Batman (in h2h)

-Batman can beat Black Panther (in h2h)

-Flash is overrated

-Cosmic and beyond beings make me uninterested in the story and are a load of BS (especially when writers include literal Gods and having the "Universe" be an actual kind of being)

-Wonder Woman does not impress me as being the "supposed" female role model :(

-As much entertainment as Anime/Mangas vs Comics/Animated Films have given me, I hate it as some are open-storied and ongoing indefinitely and the other is closed-story.

-Captain Marvel/Shazam and Superman can beat each other (I like Shazam more but Superman gets stronger over time; eventually Superman curbstomps)

-I dont like being on forums of any kind as im usually not knowledgeable about most "hardcore" vets of any series are and nobody likes my "Casual/Newbie" view points on things. :(

-Deadpool is overrated and not THAT funny (I like his sarcastic, fun personality.)

I don't think lifting feats would help in a battle. Punching is a forward pushing motion from the shoulders and chest, not a lifting or benching motion. Just because so and so lifted this or so and so pushed this doesn't mean they will use the full extent of it in battle.

No, I would not call Captain America a Batman wannabe. You missed the point entirely.

I already explained in later posts, but... in a nutshell, Cap doesn't combine those skills/attritbutes with the similar vibe (particularly while interacting with other heroes), methodology, and even the similar costume, in the way that Black Panther does. Furthermore, Cap isn't wealthy nor does he have the resources that Bats and BP have (both of whom inherited their wealth due to the family they were born into), Cap isn't known for his high-tech gadgetry, Cap isn't known for being a genius, and Cap certainly isn't known for his stealth. All of these things are also key characteristics of both Bats and BP.

And no, BP's and Bats' origins are not "completely" different. First of all, I think some of you need to look up the definition of "completely." Basically, you are going so far as to say there is nothing similar about their origins, which is utterly false.

Second, some of the specifics of their origins are different, yes, but the basic driving force... the origin behind what pushed these characters into a life of super heroism... is essentially the same. Parent murdered --> Character dons the super hero persona. As was already stated, that is a similar base origin for many characters, and I have not argued otherwise. Again, you seem to have missed the point.

I fully know that many of the specific details behind these characters origins are different, some of which you mentioned. However, T'Challa did not become the Black Panther until his Father was murdered, and it was in direct response to that murder, just as Bruce Wayne becoming Batman was in direct response to the murder of his parents.

After going through some battle threads it is quite obvious that Mortal Kombat characters are horribly underrated on this site. People seriously make the claim that Shao Kahn is a street leveler? Really?

Well that flash can't do a trilion IMP's in 0000000.1 pico-seonds.

That anime characters are underrated

that its stupid to say manga doesn't belong on comicvine, that manga=comics,

Oh yeah , that batman isn't a superhuman

thats all 4 now

1: Omnipotent vs Omnipresent should be an interesting match...

2: Freddy (full powered) vs Alucard (full powered) would be a epic battle.

3: Slenderman is overrated and underrated at the same time in this page.

4: Prep time should be limited.

5: DBZ vs any other verse shoud be allowed.

6: Full powered Kratos is underrated.

I know this was said before but Peter Parker's intellect is dismissed because the writers never spend much time developing it, even though Reed himself has claimed Peter's intellect rivals his own at a young age (hyperbole maybe, but he wouldn't say it if it didn't have a merit of truth). I personally would put Peter in the top 5 Marvel intellects.

Hank Pym's intellect I find is often overrated on these forums.

Speed Force is overrated.

Nightwing is a boss.

@granitesoldier: I actually agree with you about Spider-Man except him being one of Marvel's top five intellects. IIRC, both Hank Pym and Reed Richards have mentioned that Peter has massive potential but wastes it superheroing. His also don't tend to focus on his intellect like you said. Wouldn't call him one of the top five in Marvel though. Seems like a large stretch and I wouldn't call Peter more intelligent than the likes of Black Panther, etc. He's brimming with potential alright.

Completely agree.

Wolverine beats Spidey in a straight-up fight.

Panther beats Deathstroke.

Hey! I'm a huge Bren Foster fan to. He's one of my top 5 Favorite Fighters.

Completely agree.

Wolverine beats Spidey in a straight-up fight.

Panther beats Deathstroke.