Uncanny X-Men vs Stormwatch

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The_Soverighn

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#1  Edited By The_Soverighn

This Fight Takes Place In San Fransisco

Each Team Gets A Week Prep

Win By Death, K.O or Surrender

In Character, Morals On

X-MEN:

Cyclopse
Cyclopse
Magneto
Magneto
Danger
Danger
Emma Frost
Emma Frost
Magik
Magik
Hope Summers
Hope Summers
Storm
Storm
Colossus
Colossus

Stormwatch (DCnU):

Midnighter
Midnighter
caption
caption
Martian Manhunter
Martian Manhunter
Enginner
Enginner
Jack Hawksmoor
Jack Hawksmoor
Jenny Quntum
Jenny Quntum
Harry Tanner
Harry Tanner
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The_Soverighn

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#2  Edited By The_Soverighn

FIRST

BUMP

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BuckshotWasHere

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#3  Edited By BuckshotWasHere  Moderator

FIST

PUMP

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god_spawn

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#4  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

@Buckshot said:

FIST

PUMP

lol.

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Jonny_Anonymous

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#5  Edited By Jonny_Anonymous

Hm I don't think Stormwatch have enough feats in the DCnU to make a fight out of this 

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The_Soverighn

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#6  Edited By The_Soverighn

@Buckshot said:

FIST

PUMP

FUNNY

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deadpool6_6_6

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#7  Edited By deadpool6_6_6

Fist

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IIDEADxPOOLII

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#8  Edited By IIDEADxPOOLII

X-Men easily.

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blazinasian112

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#9  Edited By blazinasian112

Extinction team easily

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The_Soverighn

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#10  Edited By The_Soverighn

bump

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deadpool6_6_6

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#11  Edited By deadpool6_6_6

@IIDEADxPOOLII said:

X-Men easily.

My thoughts too.

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_Black

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#12  Edited By _Black

@blazinasian112: @deadpool6_6_6: @IIDEADxPOOLII:

Why?

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The_Soverighn

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#13  Edited By The_Soverighn

You Guys Are Underestimating Stormwatches Abilities Greatly, Jenny Quantum Is The DC's Equivalent To Franklin Richards, Midnighter Has A On board Fight Computer That Gives Ways To Kill Anyone, Jack Has The Abilities To Talk and Control Cities, And Harry Is The Greatest Swords Man In History and Has The Abilities Deceive Anyone and Apollo Is A Sentry/Superman Level Fighter.

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The_Soverighn

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#14  Edited By The_Soverighn

bump

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Redberry

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#15  Edited By Redberry

Jenny solos.

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Godabed

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#16  Edited By Godabed

@The_Soverighn said:

You Guys Are Underestimating Stormwatches Abilities Greatly, Jenny Quantum Is The DC's Equivalent To Franklin Richards, Midnighter Has A On board Fight Computer That Gives Ways To Kill Anyone, Jack Has The Abilities To Talk and Control Cities, And Harry Is The Greatest Swords Man In History and Has The Abilities Deceive Anyone and Apollo Is A Sentry/Superman Level Fighter.

No one is under estimating her, and she's not on Franklin's level of power. Althought pre-flashpoint she has some really good feats. Jenny can be killed, like any other Quantum, they are not holy invincible.

Current Jenny:

In the new 52, Adam One attempted a more precise explanation of Jenny's powers; he stated that they are related to 21st century physics and could thus be practically unlimited in scope. However, a representative from the Shadow Cabinet that governs Stormwatch's activities claimed that this was a lie that Adam told everyone, and there is little clarity over what Jenny's powers really are. So far Jenny has displayed teleportation, molecular manipulation, force-field generation and the manipulation of dark energy among her powers.

It appears that her powers depend on her understanding the principles of physics involved in energy manipulation and reality bending, and so she is being tutored by the Martian Manhunter on quantum physics and its associated fields.

Magik could take her out via a sleep spell, Emma could shut her down with a thought, Magneto could reverse the iron in her blood stopping her from consciously using her powers. And with prep, Magik ability to go through time and space, she could gather intel on all the members of Stormwatch. They can't really stop Colossusnaut especially if he gives into the darkness. Engineer would be ripped apart by magneto. Danger could take out Midnighter. Storm could actually shut down this version of Apollo rather quickly. Cyclop with prep, just can't be countered by anyone on this team, Stormwatch would lose badly. And Hope could literally use all their powers at once, this is a stomp in the X-men's favor, not to mention if she taps into the phoenix force.

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The_Soverighn

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#17  Edited By The_Soverighn

bump

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BuckshotWasHere

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#18  Edited By BuckshotWasHere  Moderator

@Godabed said:

@The_Soverighn said:

You Guys Are Underestimating Stormwatches Abilities Greatly, Jenny Quantum Is The DC's Equivalent To Franklin Richards, Midnighter Has A On board Fight Computer That Gives Ways To Kill Anyone, Jack Has The Abilities To Talk and Control Cities, And Harry Is The Greatest Swords Man In History and Has The Abilities Deceive Anyone and Apollo Is A Sentry/Superman Level Fighter.

No one is under estimating her, and she's not on Franklin's level of power. Althought pre-flashpoint she has some really good feats. Jenny can be killed, like any other Quantum, they are not holy invincible.

Magik could take her out via a sleep spell, Emma could shut her down with a thought, Magneto could reverse the iron in her blood stopping her from consciously using her powers. And with prep, Magik ability to go through time and space, she could gather intel on all the members of Stormwatch. They can't really stop Colossusnaut especially if he gives into the darkness. Engineer would be ripped apart by magneto. Danger could take out Midnighter. Storm could actually shut down this version of Apollo rather quickly. Cyclop with prep, just can't be countered by anyone on this team, Stormwatch would lose badly. And Hope could literally use all their powers at once, this is a stomp in the X-men's favor, not to mention if she taps into the phoenix force.

I'm assuming your assessment of the comparison between Jenny and Franklin is based on the new Quantum, because the old one was capable of collapsing the multiverse.

I like your take on the battle as a whole, but I don't think you mentioned Martian Manhunter at all. It's hard to say with so little to go on for most of the DC characters, but the old Manhunter would solo these X-Men and his ability to take on and seemingly beat a Justice League made up of Flash, Wonder Woman, Superman, Cyborg, Batman, Aquaman, and Green Lantern suggests to me that he'd still be able to do a lot of damage. Enough to make up for the rest of his team getting a train run on them? Hard to say without proper speed or telepathy feats for him, but as the one who'd probably do the most damage to the other team, I think he's worth a mention. You didn't mention my boy Hawksmoor either, but he's even more of a mystery that MM currently.

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The_Soverighn

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#19  Edited By The_Soverighn

nobody is acknowledging the weeks prep with Enginner, Midnighter, Hank and Martian Manhunter on That Could Really Be Something Change The Battle.

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Skaddix

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#20  Edited By Skaddix

@The_Soverighn said:

You Guys Are Underestimating Stormwatches Abilities Greatly, Jenny Quantum Is The DC's Equivalent To Franklin Richards, Midnighter Has A On board Fight Computer That Gives Ways To Kill Anyone, Jack Has The Abilities To Talk and Control Cities, And Harry Is The Greatest Swords Man In History and Has The Abilities Deceive Anyone and Apollo Is A Sentry/Superman Level Fighter.

Yeah but this is New 52 team and they lack feats. And even with prep they have not been shown building anything. As for tactics, I think a team with Scott, Frost, Storm, Magneto and Magik has an edge in tactics and strategy.

Although really this comes down to knowledge to an extent if the X-men know the weaknesses. Like Jack needing to be in cities, Martian Manhunter weak to fire, Jenny weak to telepathy and Apollo weak when not in sunlight. Then the X-men have everything they need to win without needing to build anything at all via prep.

Still Martian and Frost should spend most of this fight fighting telepathically. Maybe have Magik cast a fire spell on Martian if they find out about that weakness. She recently used hell fire on Iceman. Although double teaming him with Hope and her having a PF burst should take him out of the fight. Although probably need Hope on Jenny

Engineer has like no combat feats. But Magneto should be able to handle her and take away Tanner's swords and Jack at the same time. Although Jack might be best handled by being teleported out of SF by Magik. Might have Danger try to hack the Engineer

Apollo and Midnigher vs Colossus. Have Storm cast some cloud cover and make it rain to screw over Apollo.

Also have Magneto and/or Storm open with an EMP. To take care of anyone who needs their electronic enhancements.

That leaves Storm and Scott focus firing on Jenny. With Magik, Danger, and Magneto, coming to help as soon as possible. While Frost and Hope when they finish immediately attempt to own the team via telepathy. I should also note Jenny has to understand the physics behind what she is doing now so she is weaker now.

Honestly, assuming no one builds anything special with their prep. I see the X-men having this one in the bag. Now if this was Pre New 52 Martian Manhunter and Wildstorm Authority, it would definitely go the other way.

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SaintJohn

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#21  Edited By SaintJohn

Hope has EVERYONES POWER!!!!!!!! Magneto alone kills half of the team. let alone TWO. Magik rules a whole dimension so if you want to pull the underestimate card she can time travel and kill them OR unleash an endless hord or demons to fight for the X-Men. or go into limbo and have even more time to plan. plus her sword works on the intangible(martian manhunter).

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The_Soverighn

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#22  Edited By The_Soverighn

.

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SaintJohn

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#23  Edited By SaintJohn

hope having everyones powers on her team makes it one hell of a battle.and sine were talking about how were underestimating people do you know what magik can do?

She can literally send all of stormwatch into limbo and then wreck shop on them. because while shes there she is basically unstoppable.

Or she can cast a speel to make them all sleep or set them all on fire.

then one last thing. She can open a portal to limbo can unleash an endless horde of demons to attack them.

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KainScion

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#24  Edited By KainScion

look at MM's hand. he is almost giving you the answer.

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#25  Edited By Saren

@SaintJohn said:

hope having everyones powers on her team makes it one hell of a battle.and sine were talking about how were underestimating people do you know what magik can do?

She can literally send all of stormwatch into limbo and then wreck shop on them. because while shes there she is basically unstoppable.

Or she can cast a speel to make them all sleep or set them all on fire.

then one last thing. She can open a portal to limbo can unleash an endless horde of demons to attack them.

Which is why she lost to Black Widow in limbo......

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chiq

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#26  Edited By chiq

She was just playing a game with the widow. She didn't turn into a demon or armor up and she didn't even use her sword at all till after the whole figh unlike her fight with Doc Strange. It's like Doc strange or talisman going hand to hand with Natasha just for kicks...

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CampodelViolin

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#27  Edited By CampodelViolin

Who going to stop MM?

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SaintJohn

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#28  Edited By SaintJohn

Magik losing in Limbo is called PIS sonny!! On earth she would have got HANDLED but in limbo she is the ruler and her word is LAW and can change the landscape with a thought! so no that was not aan accurate fight.

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Skaddix

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#29  Edited By Skaddix

@CampodelViolin said:

Who going to stop MM?

Frost is going to stall him. With Possible Help from Hope and/or teleportation to Limbo and some magic spells like Hellfire.

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Super_SoldierXII

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#30  Edited By Super_SoldierXII

I actually think Stormwatch wins. Martian Manhunter and Apollo are hard to push past. I can't think of any one of the X-Men (powerful as they are) having the powerset required to put them down (either through magic or other means). Due to lack of feats at present, we just can't prove it, so the Extinction team wins by default. (Though Danger versus Midnighter might be a real interesting thread actually!)

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Equonox

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#31  Edited By Equonox

I don't think there is a single x-man, combined or individually, who can stop MM. Even with his limited display of feats in the New 52, he solo'd the justice league and has showed himself capable of some next level telepathy. Not to mention that, given that they are fighting in San Fran, Jack Hawksmoore can probably solo, Apollo can probably solo, and maybe even Jenny Quantum can probably solo (she has demonstrated already in the new 52 that she's capable of creating quantum anomalies, wormholes, and according to Midnighter she can end existence with a mere thought). This is a crush for Stormwatch, and anyone who says otherwise is either a Marvel fanboy or doesn't read Stormwatch.

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Skaddix

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#32  Edited By Skaddix

@Equonox said:

I don't think there is a single x-man, combined or individually, who can stop MM. Even with his limited display of feats in the New 52, he solo'd the justice league and has showed himself capable of some next level telepathy. Not to mention that, given that they are fighting in San Fran, Jack Hawksmoore can probably solo, Apollo can probably solo, and maybe even Jenny Quantum can probably solo (she has demonstrated already in the new 52 that she's capable of creating quantum anomalies, wormholes, and according to Midnighter she can end existence with a mere thought). This is a crush for Stormwatch, and anyone who says otherwise is either a Marvel fanboy or doesn't read Stormwatch.

Jack is not a problem. Magik can always dump him or Magneto can shred him. Also Martian fought the JL, solo would apply he defeated them more likely he ran. Also he is got no feats against other telepaths which does not really help him.

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karetaker

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#33  Edited By karetaker

is it not funny how everyone in the justice league was at some point able to solo and stalemate the entire team? food for thought

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Kinasin_

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#34  Edited By Kinasin_

Stormwatch.

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#35  Edited By SavageDragon

Extinction Team. The Magic and Piotr could take out half of stormwatch themselves. Obviously MM is the heavy hitter for Stormwatch but with frost's telepathy, the soul sword and Magics ability to transport people to limbo they can take out Martian Manhunter. That being said its still a tough battle, Apollo is no joke same with Jen. But in the end the X-men reign supreme.

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chiq

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#36  Edited By chiq

If a blast of hell fire or a spell that covers him in fire doesn't work she was able to do both outside Limbo ( if it wouldn't work can someone say why?) not up to date on new MM, can't Magik trap MM in a different dimension or a different time period or the sun? She can probably teleport limbs off like she did vs Magus. If i recall correctly Fernus was trapped in another dimension, and Bats was able to escape him through teleportation. He also needed to learn how to use the phantom zone generator...

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SinestroFTW

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I think many are discounting teamwork and prep time. Stormwatch is the most lethal team in the DCU and with Midnighter and MM leading them I think they'll be able to defend their weaknesses and just use pure brutality to but down the physically weaker Xmen.

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adamTRMM

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Namor is missing =\

Is that me, or Emma can potentially solo? I remember MMH mindwiping them all.

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@adamtrmm said:

Namor is missing =\

Is that me, or Emma can potentially solo? I remember MMH mindwiping them all.

Manhunter TP feats in the New 52? If he's not on her level she could solo. There's also Hope Summers who can mimick her power so they have two powerful telepaths

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adamTRMM

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@veitha:

Yeah, especially after what she recently did to Jean Grey, I don't think N52 Manhunter is on her level of skill, at least from what I've seen he's absolutely not.

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MasterKungFu

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stormwatch

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RealityWarper

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#42  Edited By RealityWarper

Edit :

I didn't see Jenny Quantum.

Team 2 owns this.

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Saren

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@veitha said:
@adamtrmm said:

Namor is missing =\

Is that me, or Emma can potentially solo? I remember MMH mindwiping them all.

Manhunter TP feats in the New 52? If he's not on her level she could solo. There's also Hope Summers who can mimick her power so they have two powerful telepaths

J'onn defeated and killed Thoth in a mental battle; Thoth was so powerful one of his stray thoughts wiped out an entire planet consisting of billions of telepaths. He also blocked Brainiac's telepathy and New 52 Brainiac has universe-level psychic abilities.

Emma's not anywhere near his level.

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adamTRMM

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#44  Edited By adamTRMM

@saren:

There are things to consider in his battle with Thoth. First of all, he claimed he was blocked by the Martians, so it's not like he defeated them all telepathically as he said for that he has killed them as he needed their thoughts. Then it's also obvious they were a race of pacifists, so even decimating an entire nation isn't equivalent to doing this to a nation of MMHs, right? Jonn also explained how leaders were cast aside to learn new lonely experiences and Catwoman also spotted how he's considered an exceptional Hunter even for his race.

And concluding this, he didn't kill Thoth in a mental battle, he did in a physical one. He did block him and read him, but it was revealed that Thoth's parasitic nature escaped to look for a new host, so he wasn't defeated mentally.

Blocking himself and additional three (IIRC) people from Brainiac wasn't easy for him, correct me if I'm wrong. I'd expect any mutant Omega-telepath (maybe besides Psylocke) to repeat this feat kinda untroubled.

Emma is surgical with her TP, she might just turn off his powers like she did to Jean, who is much more powerful than Frost in terms of raw power, yet is utterly outskilled. And skill is something I can't say Jonn has any notable showings of.

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lettsplay10

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team 2

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@adamtrmm said:

@saren:

There are things to consider in his battle with Thoth. First of all, he claimed he was blocked by the Martians, so it's not like he defeated them all telepathically as he said for that he has killed them as he needed their thoughts. Then it's also obvious they were a race of pacifists, so even decimating an entire nation isn't equivalent to doing this to a nation of MMHs, right? Jonn also explained how leaders were cast aside to learn new lonely experiences and Catwoman also spotted how he's considered an exceptional Hunter even for his race.

And concluding this, he didn't kill Thoth in a mental battle, he did in a physical one. He did block him and read him, but it was revealed that Thoth's parasitic nature escaped to look for a new host, so he wasn't defeated mentally.

Blocking himself and additional three (IIRC) people from Brainiac wasn't easy for him, correct me if I'm wrong. I'd expect any mutant Omega-telepath (maybe besides Psylocke) to repeat this feat kinda untroubled.

Emma is surgical with her TP, she might just turn off his powers like she did to Jean, who is much more powerful than Frost in terms of raw power, yet is utterly outskilled. And skill is something I can't say Jonn has any notable showings of.

If that's the only good showing, Emma can win through skills. Her best feat imo is to cut off the entire Skrull telepathic army which included people with her, Xavier's, Grey's and countless other Earth telepaths's powers, she could do the same to John's TP with her skills

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TDK_1997

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Well, it seems like UXM are pretty much goners.

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Saren

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@adamtrmm said:

@saren:

There are things to consider in his battle with Thoth. First of all, he claimed he was blocked by the Martians, so it's not like he defeated them all telepathically as he said for that he has killed them as he needed their thoughts. Then it's also obvious they were a race of pacifists, so even decimating an entire nation isn't equivalent to doing this to a nation of MMHs, right? Jonn also explained how leaders were cast aside to learn new lonely experiences and Catwoman also spotted how he's considered an exceptional Hunter even for his race.

And concluding this, he didn't kill Thoth in a mental battle, he did in a physical one. He did block him and read him, but it was revealed that Thoth's parasitic nature escaped to look for a new host, so he wasn't defeated mentally.

Blocking himself and additional three (IIRC) people from Brainiac wasn't easy for him, correct me if I'm wrong. I'd expect any mutant Omega-telepath (maybe besides Psylocke) to repeat this feat kinda untroubled.

Emma is surgical with her TP, she might just turn off his powers like she did to Jean, who is much more powerful than Frost in terms of raw power, yet is utterly outskilled. And skill is something I can't say Jonn has any notable showings of.

He didn't say he was blocked by the Martians, he said he was blocked by J'onn. I didn't say it was equivalent to doing this to a nation of Martian Manhunters. I said it was done to a world of telepaths. One way of measuring telepathic power is the scale of it, and the scale of telepathy that can affect the population of an entire planet is not one Emma has ever reached. They may not necessarily have all been Martian Manhunter-level telepaths, but the fact that they were telepaths and were familiar with mental powers makes affecting a planet of them more impressive than affecting a planet of humans. Ultimately, the fact that they were telepaths is icing on the cake and not the real point, which is that Thoth was powerful enough that he could look at a planet and think "die", and everyone on that planet would die. Emma has never been capable of something on that scale.

I don't know how him being a Hunter is relevant.

My bad, went back and checked it again. So yeah, J'onn blocked telepathy from someone who could kill a planet by thinking about it.

I'd expect it to not be easy for him, nonetheless he did it, and I don't see how any mutant Omega-telepath could replicate it "untroubled" when Brainiac's telepathy was shown in Lobdell's Superman run to be universal in scale; when Parasite copied a fraction of Brainiac's power, his mind was overloaded from the sudden strain of hearing every thought on every planet in the entire universe. I don't think Marvel Earth has any telepaths outside of Xavier and Franklin Richards who might be capable of handling something like that. Maybe Legion on a good day. Emma, Rachel, Psylocke and the rest would be completely out of their league.

Emma also needed to combine her powers with the Cuckoos' to fight Legion, who has Xavier-level psi-power but virtually zero skill. Superior skill is only going to go so far; eventually there will come a point where superior power will just bulldoze its obstacles regardless of how much skill is thrown at it. At any rate, how are you defining skill and why do you think J'onn has no showings of it? Does skill begin and end with a weaker opponent finding a way to defeat a stronger opponent? Emma is not and never has been her world's strongest telepath, so if skill is defined as finding a way to beat a more powerful opponent, then she has several opportunities to show that. J'onn has fewer opportunities to exhibit something like that because he is typically the most powerful telepath on his planet and those as strong or stronger than him tend to come from beyond Earth, like Saturn Girl, Starro, Brainiac and the like. Why would things like planting illusions in Captain Atom's quantum mind or lobotomizing Infinitus or rewiring Despero's cerebral synapses telepathically not count as skill?

Eh. Skrulls typically had drastically inferior versions of the powers they copied --- Elektra was casually killing Skrulls with the powers of Wolverine, Mr. Fantastic and Spider-Man, and Black Panther beheaded a Skrull with the powers of Thor, Loki and Beta Ray Bill right after holding his own against another Skrull that had the powers of Hulk and Juggernaut. How many Skrulls were actually in this telepathic army? Because if you're talking about the thing from the Secret Invasion X-Men tie-in, there were only seven Skrulls, and Emma didn't handle them alone --- she had Cerebra and the Cuckoos for help, and even then she literally died trying to break the thought-wall and needed the Cuckoos to force her heart and brain to keep working. I'm not throwing around the word "literally" in a manner that doesn't suit it --- Emma actually failed, died and had to be forced back to life, so it's a weird feat to try and use.

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Eh, I don't know! This battle is too close.

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@saren:

Ehm, I dunno I have a translated version of the comic where he blatantly states he killed them (the Martians) as the result of blocking him as he was obsessed with their thoughts due to their unique telepathic nature. But this "lost in translation" situation happened to me in the past, so if you can post here a scan or a quote from there to clarify this that would be nice. Then I will address all of your other points as well.