Unalaq vs Zaheer

Round 1

Zaheer wants payback for Unalaq betraying the him and his friends and has

• Win by KO
• Both are in character
• Zaheer cannot fly
• Start 5 metres apart
• Unalaq pre fusion

Round 2

• Start 20 metres apart
• Win by death
• Zaheer can fly
• Dark avatar state on
• Both have 15 mins prep

Location: Southern spirit Portal entrance

Note: This is not giant Unalaq(Unaavatu)

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Unalaq both rounds..Zaheer was being beaten by a dying Avatar State Korra. Unalaq was at least stalemating her and arguably had the upperhand at some points.

For round 1..Unalaq was arguably the best waterbender in the whole series other than Avatar State Korra. I don't see Zaheer doing all that well against someone of that caliber.

Unalaq should win both:

Round 1: Zaheer was stalmating Tonraq, while Unalaq destroyed Tonraq

Round 2: Zaheer's flight could help him defensively, but he isn't beating someone as powerful or skilled as Dark Avatar Unalaq

Round One: Unalaq.

Round 2: Thanks to flying, Zaheer is going to have a MUCH better chance against Unalaq. I still don't see him defeating Unalaq as the Dark Avatar, though.

As much as I hate to say it, Unalaq wins. Zaheer's a better villain, though. (Though Unalaq ain't too bad)

Unalaq both rounds

Zaheer was a better villain, just not quite as smart or successful

Round one: due to the environment unalaq if we were to pick a place like the air temple with little but enough water for a fight i'd pick Zaheer.

Round two: Again Unalaq for reasons up top ^

i agree. unalaq should win both rounds. he has more practice/experience with his powers, so he should be the better fighter

R1= unalaq 7/10....unalaq is just too good with water bending agueably the best in both series(korra and aang).

R2= unalaq. Zaheer is just gonna have a better escaping and dodging chance.

Unalaq both rounds. More powerful bender with or without the avatar state.

this

Round 1 Unalaq. Too freaking powerful and alot of element to work with. Zaheer will be running the whole fight.

Round 2 Zaheer has more of a chance do to mobility and if he gets Unalaq air born he can kill him. It's 50/50 because everything plus Dark Avatar state is in Unalaq favor.

unalaq both rounds

Unalaq both rounds. Zaheer still doesn't know how to use airbending the way it was intended, as shown in his fight against Tenzin. Unalaq is a master who bested Tarloq and nearly defeated Korra. Dark Avatar state beats flying any day.

Unalaq

Unulaq

Unalaq slaughters.

This. Round 2 is almost a stomp, considering the power boost Unalaq gets from the DAS.

DAS Unalaq>>>>>>Base Unalaq>=Void Zaheer>Base Zaheer

Zaheer

Unalaq

Unalaq wins both rounds.

Unalaq would demolish Zaheer round 2 and round 1 he still wins.

R1- Zaheer

R2- Unalaq

Idk maybe it's just me but I cant get behind the level that people hold Base Unalaq at. He doesnt have a ton of feats pre-fusion, and he has very little experience against airbending. A tired Tonraq was able to dodge and weave through plenty of Unalaqs attacks in an environment that really benefits offensive waterbending attacks, and nearly gets to him with prior injuries, and multiple opponents attacking him. Zaheer has far better evasion then Tonraq does, as well as having vastly more experience fighting his opponents element, unlike Unalaq. Zaheer mid diffed Tonraq in the North pole, bested Kya with little difficulty, only getting tagged by her while trying to escape, and again got the better of Tonraq while simultaneously being pressured by a restrained Korra. I'll admit it's been some time since I've watched S2 all the way through again, so if someone could enlighten me to some aspect of Unalaq I've missed I'd be glad to discuss it further.

@byondeon: What do you mean he just broke pillars? Tonraq dodges at least 6 attacks from Unalaq here, and he breaks a few pillars as well. Again Tonraq isnt even at his best in this engagement. We dont know how long he'd been fighting prior to that, and he had taken a few hits as well. I also dont see how you can definitively say Unalaq was toying with him when we get a shot of Unalaq sweating as Tonraq almost closes the distance. Zaheer was able to ragdoll a fresh Tonraq pretty much as soon as the engagement begins, and just because P'li is the one who gets the final blow doesnt mean Zaheer wouldn't have beaten beat Tonraq, as we dont see him get tagged a single time. Zaheer also gets the better of Tonraq while he had Korra helping him, even after Tonraq got the drop on him. I really dont see how Unalaq is stomping a guy who has shown to more then be able to handle himself against talented water benders, while also having next to 0 experience against the kind of bender hes fighting against.

Unalaq has a solid chance of beating Void Zaheer.

Unalaq both rounds.

Unalaq both rounds with 2 being a stomp.

@byondeon: Ok dude, what are you on about. Tonraq and Unalaq fight on an open street, and Unalaq has visibility the entire time. Tonraq is hit by three cheap shots which visually injure him as he struggles to stand back up after Eska/Desna hit him from the side, then proceeds to dodge at least 6 of Unalaqs attacks not including the ones he smashes through, or blocks with ice. How can you definitively say Tonraq was at his best in that engagement? How long is not long enough to not be at his best? He was openly participating in a battle against dark spirits and water benders, and was running, jumping, and bending on screen plenty which would almost certainly factor into his stamina at the very least. How exactly did Tonraq have the upper hand in that clip against Zaheer? Zaheer dodged that attack and was backpedaling as Zaheer usually does in his engagements, being an airbender. There is zero reason to assume Tonraq would've ended the fight there had P'li not blasted him as once again like I said, he does not land a single attack on Zaheer the entire fight. How do you figure exactly that Tonraq isnt outmatched by Zaheer in their second engagement on the cliff? Tonraq would've died from that engagement without Kuvira despite having the element of suprise, and a restrained Korra on his side. In that engagement Tonraq lands 1 attack on Zaheer while Korra is drawing Zaheers attention and blocking his view of Tonraq. And while yes Tonraq had limited water in that fight, Unalaq doesnt have the same amount of water in this fight as he does in his bout with Tonraq. I wouldnt consider Tonraq to be league's above Kya in skill either. Kya gave Ming Hua a decent fight in the air temple, and Ming is undoubtedly a superior combatant to Tonraq. Kya has also shown more versatility in her water bending techniques when compared to Tonraq. And once again, there is zero evidence that Unalaq wasnt taking his fight against Tonraq seriously, you get a shot of him showing clear frustration as he bends while Tonraq is dodging his attacks. The only thing you are correct on is that Unalaq wasnt sweating in the slow mo scene despite showing a worried/panicked expression. How convenient that you choose to leave out the actual shot where he is sweating which is after he freezes Tonraq, i suppose that's partially my bad for confusing the exact time hes shown to be sweating, but irregardless Tonraq DID make Unalaq sweat, which once again invalidates this notion you have that Unalaq wasn't taking that fight seriously.

As to Zaheer, he is shown, lacking in good feats pre-flight. Beating Kya isn't hard, nor is losing to Tonraq a good showing, and hitting a shackled Korra isn't the biggest deal either. And he was getting stomped by Tenzin.

And tbh, his flight feats aren't impressive either, besides that he learned to fly, but the flight itself doesn't make you a good fighter.

@byondeon: Wow this response..... just wow. In the interest of keeping things civil I'm going to extend you the olive branch of assuming that you are debating me largely from memory, and that despite the implication of certain statements you've made, that you havent re-watched a good amount of these scenes. Because if you have, then you are outright lying, making baseless assumptions, and disingenuously recontextualizing events to better suit your argument. I have re-watched every scene relevant to this discussion multiple times on Netflix, and there are various blatant contradictions that you have presented as fact.

How does Unalaq not have open vision? As I said the fight takes place in an open city street with 0 obstacles, there are multiple shots where both Unalaq and Tonraq are visible in frame together, and Tonraq only brings up that ice wall towards the last few seconds of the fight (ice is also transparent and wouldnt function as an effective line of sight break.).

Days? Are you actually serious? Your seriously suggesting that a normal human man has to be continuously physically active for multiple days in order to not be at his best in a fight? While I am certainly no water tribe chieftain I can tell you that 10 continuous MINUTES of a physical exercise like jumping jacks would make me far less effective in a fist fight, let alone spending an indiscriminate amount of time running, and fighting while using martial arts. How was Tonraq literally shown to be at his best? Something like that would require a contextual scene or statement to definitively discern, and neither such thing is present.

Let's go through the North Pole engagement step by step. Zaheer and Tonraq share two scenes, in the first Tonraq throws a total of 4 attacks, 3 water attacks, and 1 ice attack. Zaheer dodges all of them. Zaheer attacks 1 time, which ragdolls Tonraq. The next scene is after Zuko is dispatched by Ghazan. Tonraq creates an ice pillar launching him into the air, where he then throws two ice projectiles at Zaheer, which he once again dodges. Zaheer does not trip, you could possibly consider that being a stumble, but he does not fall over, hes even shown using his arms to balance himself as he backs up. Tonraq then pauses, and turns to look at P'li. He was not pressing his attack, so the statement that he was definitely going to "beat Zaheer" after missing his projectiles is not accurate in the slightest. P'li then fires a combustion blast, which he narrowly defends from with an ice wall, but is thrown by the shockwave. In the scene where Tonraq is rag dolled by said explosion, Zaheer can clearly be seen standing on his own two feet, so once again he did not get tripped by Tonraqs ice projectiles. P'li did not intervene because she needed to save Zaheer, there were no other active targets left on the field except Tonraq. Eska and Desna were frozen, she'd already shot down Zukos dragon, and Zuko was beaten by Gazhan. So she dispatches the last remaining threat before they all escape. Zaheer dodging the entire fight is not an indication that he was losing that fight. Zaheer is an airbender, the majority of the time he dodges and weaves until he finds a solid opportunity to attack, this is consistently his strategy in almost every fight hes in. Air benders have the best natural evasion of any bender, Aang often does the same thing. Are you going to suggest that Zuko has the upper hand in his engagements with season 1 Aang where he spends much of the fight evading and dodging?

I find it incredibly ironic that you ask whether or not I watched the same fight as you in regards to the fight in Episode 12, because your response seems to suggest that you havent watched the fight. You suggest that I'm incorrect when I said Tonraq only lands 1 hit on Zaheer in that fight. You are wrong, Tonraq attacks Zaheer 5 times over the course of that fight. The suprise attack(Zaheer dodges.), the water lash which is used as a cut to the next scene(it isnt shown whether or not this one lands), another water whip lash(Zaheer blasts through it with air.), the two handed standard water strike(this one connects, while Tonraq is behind Korra who had just attacked Zaheer with earthbending), and finally the ice stab(Zaheer dodges.) So again 1 confirmed hit on Zaheer. You also claim that Tonraq blocks all of Zaheers attacks and is only tagged when hes out of water when Zaheer yeets him off the cliff. Again you are wrong, he blocks multiple attacks yes, but his defenses are overpowered by Zaheers repeated air blasts until he is once again ragdolled, and his water is dispersed by the wind blast that makes contact with him. Additionally if Zaheer is able to last long enough against not just Tonraq, but Korra as well, until Tonraq expends all of his resources how is that not him outmatching Tonraq? Tonraq certainly wasnt going to win with his water gone even if he hadn't essentially been killed in that engagement. Further how exactly would Tonraq have defended against being tossed off the cliff with waterbending when Zaheer sweeps his feet our from under him with an aoe air swirl. It wasnt a straight air blast like the ones Tonraq was blocking.

Now onto the subject of Kya, and Ming. The disparity in skill between Kya and Tonraq is the only point I think you've adequately made here, so I wont continue to persist on it, even though classifying her loss to Ming as a stomp really doesnt support your estimations of Zaheer and Tonraqs fights considering they last similair amounts of time despite Ming being a far more aggressive bender then Zaheer, and features a similair ratio of hits. What I would like to bring up is you saying "even though your statement is wrong." Are you referring to my statement that Ming is a far superior combatant to Tonraq? If so I would ask you to justify that claim, because there is 0 chance Tonraq could replicate Mings feat against Deska and Esna in the North Pole. If not nevermind.

Now back to Tonraq and Unalaq. I've already debunked your absurd notion that the entirety of that fight had a (transparent) ice wall between the two brothers. That is just blatantly incorrect. I'd like to focus on two statements you made 1. "He didnt take it seriously." And 2. "He wasnt worried though." Now unless you have the ability to read Unalaqs mind (you don't) these claims are completely baseless, which I think you know considering you presented nothing to substantiate either of them except that Unalaq knows hes a better bender than Tonraq which is irrelevant, when we are presented with a shot of Unalaqs angered face during the fight as his attacks fail to land, and the shot of him sweating after he has frozen Tonraq (I did not make this up, if I could take screenshots from Netflix i would post a picture here but that isnt allowed, and I havent found any YouTube videos of that scene in its entirety, but there most definitely is a close up shot after he freezes him where Unalaq is frowning and sweating, then he smiles. Go back and watch the episode. If you want to continue denying reality fine, but dont condescendingly act like I'm crazy for saying this). To conclude I'd like to adress your statement that "He isnt visibly injured." This is a kids show, you arent going to see a bloodspurt, open wound, or hear the sound of ribs cracking. Tonraq struggles to stand up, and is clutching his side in pain, that's about as clear an indication of injury as you are going to get in a show like this, you can choose not to accept that but the point stands.

Unalaq

@no_one_expects_the_silver_surf: Not gonna reply to all you have said, as I can't be bothered. Though I will say a few things

1. Unalaq WAS toying with Tonraq the entire fight, not to mention that he had vision of him, he only missed a single attack, which if you would have actually seen the show would have not missed. And no, I do not count the times Unalaq created those ice pillars that Tonraq smashed. But other than that, Unalaq only missed when Tonraq literally ice-glided behind a wall
2. Tonraq was not injured. As he didn't show anything to suggest it.

On a side note, Zaheer did far worse against worse opponents than Unalaq did.

The opponents they both fought:

• Mako/Bolin
• Tonraq

Unalaq did better against them. And we cannot forget that Unalaq never actually fought Korra, but was tossed out of the spirit world before he could fight her. And it's also important to note that Zaheer fought Korra when she was literally bound in chains that she couldn't break free from. And Unalaq stomped Mako and Bolin, and while they couldn't do much to Zaheer, it was literally because they were trapped in a cell.

@no_one_expects_the_silver_surf: You should go rewatch the show again, as you actually missed out what actually happened in each of their fights.

@byondeon: Oh really? You cant be bothered huh? That's a cute way of saying that you have nothing to say to argue my points or defend yours.

Stop trying to gaslight me by saying I havent watched these fights or that I need to rewatch them. I'm not the one who has clearly and blatantly presented various statements that contradict what happens in the show. This is a pathetic argument to make, either tell me exactly what I missed from these fights or dont make that statement. How about you just start by giving me a single example of what I missed from any of them, since you've neglected to do that despite implying that I havent watched these scenes multiple times.

There is nothing to suggest that Unalaq was toying with Tonraq, as I've said we get multiple things that contradict that notion. Unalaqs angered expression, and the shot of him sweating. This is a baseless statement from you that you havent substantiated, you just keep repeating it over and over again.

You are once again just straight up lying about the Unalaq vs Tonraq fight, and whether or not you "count" anything is irrelevant since you are not an authority on these scenes. Unalaq attacks Tonraq with with 8 of those pillars, Tonraq only smashes 3 of them, he dodges the other five. He then attacks with 4 more standard water blasts after the ice wall comes up, an ice wall which I will re-iterate is TRANSPARENT (you can literally see Unalaq through it.). Why does it matter that Tonraq dodges some of these attacks with ice sliding? It's still dodging them whether he uses his legs or bending.

I dont know why you've chosen to bring up two irrelevant points in the form of Korra and the bending brothers rather than argue against my points when I wasn't using Korra as a metric at all, and Zaheer doesnt have a proper fight with Mako and Bolin, so we cant observe whether or not he'd have done better against them then Unalaq, but classifying that minuscule amount of screentime as Zaheer doing far worse against the pair is extremely disingenuous. Likewise Zaheer did not do far worse against Tonraq. Across both encounters Zaheer lands hits more consistently against Tonraq then Unalaq does, and hes able to avoid pretty much everything Tonraq throws at him. Hes only tagged more because Tonraq doesnt try to punch him in the face for no reason like he does in the Unalaq fight, he actually consistently uses his bending offensively. All of this not even factoring that Unalaq should have far better knowledge of his brothers style and capabilities considering they were raised together, and likely trained together. While Zaheer has only had a handful of encounters with Tonraq, one of which was separated from the other two by a period of over a decade.

Finally, unless Tonraq shows a resistance to ice projectiles it is more logical to assume that they damage him rather then assuming that they do not affect his physical well being in any way. Tonraq did not no-sell that hit from Eska/Desna. He grunted in pain, struggled to stand up, and was clutching the spot where it hit him. This is an indication of injury, and a clear one at that. He doesnt say anything like "that all you got?" Or some other indication that this attack doesn't effect him. I'd say the fact that he continues on fighting after being hit is just a positive feat for Tonraq, not a definitive indication that he wasnt hurt by that attack.

@byondeon: zaheer round 1 imo and either way in round 2

Unalaq both rounds..

@byondeon: Zaheer both rounds... lowdiff-stomps round 1

Pre-Fusion would beat Zaheer..

Post-Fusion is the only one that can beat Avatars.

@byondeon:

@haikyuu444 said:

@byondeon: Zaheer both rounds... lowdiff-stomps round 1

Pre-Fusion would beat Zaheer..

in ur dreams

Post-Fusion is the only one that can beat Avatars.

amon, tarrlok, yakone, SC ozai pre-AS, oh, and, ZAHEER, oh, and unalaq got wrecked by air only korra.

1: He have done better than Zaheer.

2: Bloodbending goes out the window, as that is a plot device. Korra would stomp Ozai no AS. Zaheer would get stomped by any competent bender. Zaheer would lose to literally anyone from his own team. He would lose to Ozai, he would lose to Unalaq, he would lose to Bolin, Mako, Toph, Lin, Kuvira etc.. He isn't even in the top 30 best benders in the verse..

Also, Korra is literally the second best Airbender in the verse.