I think this would be a long, tedious battle. However, Ultron has been beaten in the past by Wonder Man banging him around until a non-adamantium component broke, and Human Torch has likewise beaten him by melting something non-adamantium. Eventually the Destroyer will do the same, whereas there really isn't anything Ultron can do to damage the armor.
damn, that picture, destroyer is holding mijonir, it destroys
LOL that because its from Thor V3 Issue 05 where he fights and nearly beat Thor with Odin Force before Thor call upon his odin force calls upon his lightning which frees the soul of Balder the brave from the destroyer armor stopping it in tracks.
I have to agree, i dont see how Ultron could do a lot against Destroyer. The only thing i have seen actually KO the destroyer was King Thor in The Mighty Thor V2 79 (or The Mighty Thor 581, i have seen people use both numbering for the same issue dont know which one is more appropriate), and seeing King Thor's feat during Lord of Asgard Saga and The Reigning , which is where this battle happened, dont think Ultron is anywhere as powerful.
How strong is the Destroyer really? What can it do againt the various versions of Thor or Hulk? What can it do againt the more powerfull ones like Odin or Galactus or a single Celestial?
If it's just a normal human(or asgardian) then Ultron has a relatively good chance of winning. If it's one of the more powerful Asgardians, then Destroyer wins easily.
The only thing i have seen actually KO the destroyer was King Thor in The Mighty Thor V2 79 (or The Mighty Thor 581, i have seen people use both numbering for the same issue dont know which one is more appropriate)
Jurgen's run was originally published starting with "Thor 1" on the cover, and I recall reading a letter where it was even stated the reason they made a whole new series for him was because there had never been a Thor #1 before, since his original series started off as part of Journey into Mystery, and they just wound up changing the title when Thor became the main character of the series.
So I would say calling it "Thor v2 79" would be more appropriate, since that's what it was published as (that's also how it's numbered in the TPB).
@niBBit: At normal levels the Destroyer is notably superior to Thor. While Thor is generally capable of defending himself and fighting back for a little while, their encounters are still almost always heavily one-sided, with no real hope of Thor actually being able to physically outmatch the Destroyer.
There was one exception, I think when Sif was empowering it, where Thor seemed to actually get the upper hand, but that is a big exception, and she was trying her best to prevent the thing from killing Thor.
The scans of it fighting the Celestials are out of context. The Destroyer was empowered by Odin and all of Asgard at the time, and was amped well beyond its normal capabilities. It is formidable, but not generally a threat to Abstract level beings.
@SirMethos: Aside from when Odin entered it, I don't think there is generally much indication of a power boost based on the soul used. Even when animated by a normal human (as it was in its first appearance), it clearly outmatches Thor physically, so even if there is a difference, I don't think it would help Ultron much; even the Destroyer's low-showings (if they can be called that) put it above Ultron.
With a normal human controlling the Destroyer, it has been defeated by Thor(after Marnot resurrected him).
The only Destoyer Thor faced after being resurrected by Marnot before he gained Odin Force was during The Mighty Thor 538 - 540 where Thor didnt even come close to beating the Destroyer armor Odin had to interfer and it wasnt animated by a normal human anyways, it was animated by the soul of Tarene (Thor Girl or Designati whichever you prefer) so i am a little lost to which instance you are referring to. I am assuming you have already seen the battle so not posting scans of the said battle because its a lot of scans, although if you wanna see it i can always post it to you.
Thor can beat a destroyer while animated by human soul, anything to back this up? Because none of the thor solo issue points this out but i have seen many people argue this which i have never been able to understand, and since its not only you there must be something i am missing so i would sincerely want to know.
Below are the scans from The Mighty Thor 118-119 where Thor fights a Destroyer Armor that is animated by the soul of a hunter, a normal human, and the only way he managed to beat him was because he brought the person's body infront of the destroyer and he was unwilling to harm his own body. Thor himself, and Odin clearly states during the fight that Thor doesnt have power to beat the destroyer and the fight itself demonstrates that.
The Mighty thor 118, the battle doesnt end here
Gallery
The mighty thor 119
And its hardly a one off things, here's Avengers fighting Destoyer Armor animated by the soul of Colonel Preston who is also a normal human, scans are from The Mighty Thor 503
The battle with the Avengers continues next issue too and it was only via BFR that Thor managed to beat Destroyer there.
Gallery
I have never seen Thor even come close to beating the Destroyer on his own, apart from his regular BFR be it animated by human soul or otherwise, nor have i seen any distinct difference between the power levels when animated by say godly soul.
@Freefa11 said:
Jurgen's run was originally published starting with "Thor 1" on the cover, and I recall reading a letter where it was even stated the reason they made a whole new series for him was because there had never been a Thor #1 before, since his original series started off as part of Journey into Mystery, and they just wound up changing the title when Thor became the main character of the series.
So I would say calling it "Thor v2 79" would be more appropriate, since that's what it was published as (that's also how it's numbered in the TPB).
@niBBit: At normal levels the Destroyer is notably superior to Thor. While Thor is generally capable of defending himself and fighting back for a little while, their encounters are still almost always heavily one-sided, with no real hope of Thor actually being able to physically outmatch the Destroyer.
There was one exception, I think when Sif was empowering it, where Thor seemed to actually get the upper hand, but that is a big exception, and she was trying her best to prevent the thing from killing Thor.
The scans of it fighting the Celestials are out of context. The Destroyer was empowered by Odin and all of Asgard at the time, and was amped well beyond its normal capabilities. It is formidable, but not generally a threat to Abstract level beings.
@SirMethos: Aside from when Odin entered it, I don't think there is generally much indication of a power boost based on the soul used. Even when animated by a normal human (as it was in its first appearance), it clearly outmatches Thor physically, so even if there is a difference, I don't think it would help Ultron much; even the Destroyer's low-showings (if they can be called that) put it above Ultron.
Thank you much appreciated. Also could do you remember the issue where thor fought a sif empowered Destroyer, i know it doesnt change anything here in the battle, i want to check it out. I recently got ever got every thor issue with me, but still have about 350 more issue to go (man Thor has way too many solo issues) so i am sure its somewhere here with me, if you point me the number i'll make sure it check it out.
How strong is the Destroyer really? What can it do againt the various versions of Thor or Hulk? What can it do againt the more powerfull ones like Odin or Galactus or a single Celestial?
Destroyer based on Marvel bio has 7 in terms of strength and durability which is the maximum possibly anyone can get. His feats clearly puts him above thor and i know at least 6 times Thor has fought the destroyer (including one occasion with the entire avenger by his side) and it has still always been one sided to destroyer's favour the way out for Thor is BFR or help from Odin.
Then we have Odin Force Thor vs Destroyer where the only way thor beat Destroyer and at that occasion Destroyer was possessed by the soul of Balder an asgardian which thor didnt know and only beat him because he used his odin force to bring Balder back to life and Destroyer had no soul to animate it so it simply fell to the ground.
The only instance that Thor has actually beaten the destroyer was the last issue in The Reigning where the destroyer armor was animated by the soul of Tarene and Thor at that time has full Odin force and about 30 years to master his odin force. In the battle he manage to blow a hole in the destroyer armor thereby KOing him, Tarene later re-awaken the destroyer fully healed in the same issue but they never fought again in the series.
Also please dont buy the celestial scans because there are many things to consider:
The destoyer armor was animated by the soul of Odin.
It was empowered by all the power of asgard so thats as amped up as it gets.
Destroyer achieved almost nothing against the celestial and was defeated soundly.
The scan shows destroyer chopping the hands of the celestial, he did that using odin sword which is capable of cutting anything, so thats more of a feat for Odin sword. Not to mention the very next scans celestials re-grow their arm and put down the destroyer with a combined blast.
Destroyer is no where as powerful as say the celestials. Destroyer couldnt do much while Thor and Destroyer fought side by side against the dark gods, who have been defeated soundly by King Thor as well as Deesak. Destoyer lost to King Thor who himself isnt anywhere close to even a normal celestials, let alone galactus or a group of celestials
Should you like to see any scans, check out my last post before this one, or any other scans of anything i have said thus far just let me know and i can post it to you.
@Killemall: Nice scans. It's always nice when someone takes the time to lay out the facts in a comprehensive manner. I feel like I can go through 20 battle threads without seeing a scan these days.
While on the topic of scans, I am curious if anyone has any good scans of the recent Phalanx-era Ultron, which I believe is the one seen here? I understand he's more powerful than normal, but I don't know a lot of details.
In any case, Ultron can't win. I don't think his encephalo-ray (human-controller) will work here, nor his machine control power, because the Destroyer is a hybrid. His disintegration rays are probably not enough to take out the magically-infused Destroyer either. While on the other hand the Destroyer's disintegration beam can destroy uru and should be enough to destroy Ultron. I think uru and adamantium are probably fairly close in durability. Destroyer is also far, far stronger than Ultron.
My one question (related to what I was asking about his Phalanx era) is how much Ultron is techno-organic and can use T-O powers now--can he shapeshift/life-drain? I'm unclear how the Phalanx is different/similar to Warlock's Technarchy species. No matter what I don't really see Ultron winning, but if he basically has Warlock-like powers in addition to his classic ones, then that would make for a more interesting fight.
I was mistaken about Thor beating the Sif-Destroyer. As you pointed out, Thor has a LOT of solo issues, and I can't keep them all straight in my head all the time. Sif was used to empower the Destroyer in issues 151 and 152, but Thor was losing, as usual. I think the instance I had in mind was actually Thor 225; at one point while fighting the Destoyer, it becomes distracted by someone the man animating it knew, which gave Thor and opening to hit it which resulted in the spirit going back to its body. This was an ordinary human who happened to be in close proximity.
I vaguely recall a battle between the two on Bifrost that Thor may have "won," but I can't recall which issue now.
@SirMethos said:
With a normal human controlling the Destroyer, it has been defeated by Thor(after Marnot resurrected him).
You mean the time Marnot resurrected Thor because the Destroyer killed him and curbstomped the Avengers earlier? Is that the instance you're thinking of? And BFR is a particular kind of defeat that should be mentioned. Sure, Thor can transport the Destroyer if he gets the chance to do so, but the fact remains it is physically well above him.
I was mistaken about Thor beating the Sif-Destroyer. As you pointed out, Thor has a LOT of solo issues, and I can't keep them all straight in my head all the time. Sif was used to empower the Destroyer in issues 151 and 152, but Thor was losing, as usual. I think the instance I had in mind was actually Thor 225; at one point while fighting the Destoyer, it becomes distracted by someone the man animating it knew, which gave Thor and opening to hit it which resulted in the spirit going back to its body. This was an ordinary human who happened to be in close proximity.
I vaguely recall a battle between the two on Bifrost that Thor may have "won," but I can't recall which issue now.
@SirMethos said:
With a normal human controlling the Destroyer, it has been defeated by Thor(after Marnot resurrected him).
You mean the time Marnot resurrected Thor because the Destroyer killed him and curbstomped the Avengers earlier? Is that the instance you're thinking of? And BFR is a particular kind of defeat that should be mentioned. Sure, Thor can transport the Destroyer if he gets the chance to do so, but the fact remains it is physically well above him.
Thank you.
Thor 151 and 152, he only won because finally Sif soul was withdrawn from the Destroyer Armor (havent read the issue quickly flipped through it after you pointed it out)
Thor 225 was weird , or maybe because i did not understand it, Destroyer is distracted, Thor knocks it on the ground and the spirit all of a sudden flies out of the destroyer and it just stops so not sure what happened but i havent read the issue only flipped through it
The Marnot incident, he didnt even BFR Destroyer, it was Odin that interferred. The battle took place almost 3 issues and these are the scans for the last issue The Mighty Thor 540, also we even see watcher and Odin look at what should have happened, because they all knew The Reigning was comming and Watcher actually wanted Odin not to have interfered and let Destroyer Armor kill Thor so the Reigning would never have happened, but Odin refused and knowingly took the life force out of the destroyer.
@Killemall: Yeah, it seemed like a bit of plot contrivance in 225. Thor was definitely getting beat up before that.
I assumed Methos was referring to Thor v2 #2.
Yeah have to agree with 225.
I dont think he was talking about Thor V2 #2 because i did show him that scan, and that was Thor + Avengers vs Destroyer and Thor actually died in that issue, it was Scarlet witch and not marnot that brought him back to life and he resorts to BFR.
Not really convincing, and to be fairSirMethosis a very credible debator, he must have mis-interpreted it.
Ultron is outclassed here. You should give him prep to even it up because Destroyer is in a different level than Ultron.
@blazinasian112 said:
@niBBit: The Destroyer has held its own against multiple celestials in the past
Which is impressive
Wow I didn't know that but that just seals in my point.
"Be water my friend"
Don't get too convinced by these scans, that Destroyer had Odin in it as well as the backing of all the souls of Asgard and even wielded the Odinsword. And yet this is how it turned out with no effort at all on the part of the Celestials...
Then we have Odin Force Thor vs Destroyer where the only way thor beat Destroyer and at that occasion Destroyer was possessed by the soul of Balder an asgardian which thor didnt know and only beat him because he used his odin force to bring Balder back to life and Destroyer had no soul to animate it so it simply fell to the ground.
That fight was stupid,
Thor knew the only way to beat the destroyer was to bfr him, but thor still chose to engage the destroyer physically.
Whatever the Destroyer is made out of, it is stronger than Adamantium, so Ultron isn't doing jack diddly squat to it. The Destroyer is also one of the physically strongest bricks ever even at it's lowest showings.
@niBBit said:
How strong is the Destroyer really? What can it do againt the various versions of Thor or Hulk? What can it do againt the more powerfull ones like Odin or Galactus or a single Celestial?
The Destroyer generally slaps around Hulk or Thor when it meets them. It's stronger than either of them are on their best day. It also roflstomped Hercules in the ground when the two met. It may or may not be strong enough to break Ultron's Adamantium body, but it's strong enough to just throw him far, far away. Not to mention it has ridiculously powerful disintegrator beams among other things.
Really, out of all the Bricks I've seen in comics, the only unamped one I'd say can take on the Destroyer without getting beaten into the ground is Mangog.
Destroyer Destroyed Mjolnir and Damaged a Celestial and both are more durable than Ultron while I do not see Ultron putting down the Destroyer. Destroyer wins.
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