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Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) 9 months, 3 days ago

Poll: Ultimate Spider Men vs Weapon X Team (15 votes)

Ultimate Spider Men 53%
Weapon X 47%

Ultimate Spider Man Miles Morals and Peter Parker team up.

Weapon X best Wolverine and X-23 together again.

  • Battle takes place on a average New York City street with some cars, light post, and benches. Both teams start 50 feet apart.
  • All have Morals On and are In Character.
  • Random Battle with No Prep.
  • Standard Gear.
  • This is a best out of 10 battle. Who would take the Majority?
  • All Current or Last Seen Versions (Wolverine has Healing)

So what does the community say?

#1 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio
#2 Posted by Shawnbaby (10458 posts) - - Show Bio
#3 Posted by MonsterStomp (16145 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby

Polls are mostly useless really. For the most part all they tell you is which characters are more popular.

I agree. Ultimate Spider-Men take without much difficulty.

#4 Posted by Shawnbaby (10458 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly cannot see how The Ultimate Spider-Men can take a majority here.

Wolverine comes into this fight with a huge advantage...he's fought Spider-People before. Better Spider-People than these two. Nothing against these two but they're a couple of unskilled teenagers fighting against 2 well-honed killing machines.

Ultimate Peter is slower than 616 Peter. He's Weaker than 616. He's way less experienced than 616. He doesn't use webbing as effectively as 616. And when it comes down to it...Webbing is the only way Spider-Man can keep Wolverine down.

If it was just Logan...They might be able to pull this out...but with Laura backing him up...they just can't.

#5 Edited by laflux (14310 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly cannot see how The Ultimate Spider-Men can take a majority here.

Wolverine comes into this fight with a huge advantage...he's fought Spider-People before. Better Spider-People than these two. Nothing against these two but they're a couple of unskilled teenagers fighting against 2 well-honed killing machines.

Ultimate Peter is slower than 616 Peter. He's Weaker than 616. He's way less experienced than 616. He doesn't use webbing as effectively as 616. And when it comes down to it...Webbing is the only way Spider-Man can keep Wolverine down.

If it was just Logan...They might be able to pull this out...but with Laura backing him up...they just can't.

I think this a fair assessment, although Miles has received training before, but its countered by the fact that X-23 has fought Spider-Man before, and actually beat him (though Peter was holding back). If it wasn't for Logan's enhanced senses, I'd say that Miles invisibility could cause some trouble.

#6 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

I honestly cannot see how The Ultimate Spider-Men can take a majority here.

Wolverine comes into this fight with a huge advantage...he's fought Spider-People before. Better Spider-People than these two. Nothing against these two but they're a couple of unskilled teenagers fighting against 2 well-honed killing machines.

Ultimate Peter is slower than 616 Peter. He's Weaker than 616. He's way less experienced than 616. He doesn't use webbing as effectively as 616. And when it comes down to it...Webbing is the only way Spider-Man can keep Wolverine down.

If it was just Logan...They might be able to pull this out...but with Laura backing him up...they just can't.

I must say and argue the Webbing point.

USM was never skimp on webbing people into KO.

As seen his Web Spam is a favorite tactic of his and that Webbing is stronger than bullets as the last scan shows. Also Miles uses Webbing and Spider Sting.

Webbing

Miles like Peter does not skimp of the Web Spam.

Miles web spamming SHIELD troops while dodging bullets.

Invisibility

This Spider man has a new power in Stealth. A useful ability he uses in Combat.

1) Goes Invisible on Cops.

2-3) Goes Invisible on 616 Peter, then uses it for a sneak attack.

4) Uses it on Prowler to get some space and counter attack.

Venom Sting

This is the best power a Spider Man character can ask for. Works by utilizing a undentified energy generated by Miles body that causes immense pain. It has KOed super Human durable beings with a touch. however it also has a second delay reaction at times. This Venom Sting works on anything whether Organic or Non Organic.

1) Blows up a plastic Lego set.

2) Conductive through Peter's electric proof webbing. This larger Venom Sting also KOed 616 Peter for hours.

3) KOes the Super Durable Mutant Omega Red.

4) Destroys the Mech Suit Rhino.

5) KOes the Super Durable and High Pain Tolerance Scorpion through his boot.

6-7) One shots Venom.

It not like they have no chance here.

#7 Posted by dondave (34645 posts) - - Show Bio

Weapon X

#8 Posted by Pr0metheus (4978 posts) - - Show Bio

Miles solos on the fact he blew up a lego set.

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#9 Edited by Shawnbaby (10458 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw: Never said he didn't use the webbing...he just doesn't use it as effectively as 616 . I also never said they don't have a chance...I said they don't take a majority.

Invisibility is great and all...but it doesn't work well against people whose other senses are superhuman.

#10 Posted by Wolverine08 (38919 posts) - - Show Bio

Weapon X.

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#11 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: I don't care so much on invisibility, It was the way you wrote it that Ultimate team stood no chance.

#12 Posted by Shawnbaby (10458 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: I don't care so much on invisibility, It was the way you wrote it that Ultimate team stood no chance.

No, The way I wrote it clearly says that I don't think they take a majority...at no point did I say they had no chance.

#13 Posted by JetiiMitra (8205 posts) - - Show Bio

I hate when I have to admit Spider-Man loses to Wolverine.

#14 Posted by Wolverine08 (38919 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran said:

I hate when I have to admit Spider-Man loses to Wolverine.

I love it :)

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#15 Edited by Shawnbaby (10458 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran said:

I hate when I have to admit Spider-Man loses to Wolverine.

I don't feel so bad when the Spider-Men in question are a couple of teenagers that have a grand total of maybe 3 years of combined experience being Spider-Man between them. They are both a long way away from reaching their true potential.

#16 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@mitran said:

I hate when I have to admit Spider-Man loses to Wolverine.

I love it :)

I for one think it is pretty close match.

@indiecomicsftw said:

@shawnbaby: I don't care so much on invisibility, It was the way you wrote it that Ultimate team stood no chance.

No, The way I wrote it clearly says that I don't think they take a majority...at no point did I say they had no chance.

I meant it seem that way to me.

Argument for Team Spider Man

  1. Also may I ask how Wolverine team wins? I know Laura might, but with Morals on would Logan Stab kid Spider Men?
  2. Both Spider Men still can and do have a Web Spam Advatage. Add to that the Venom sting is tranferable through webbing.
  3. Peter still has a useful Spider Sense and 10 ton strength at max. Miles is still over 2 tons in strength feats. Both have insane Durubaility to blasts and blunt damage. Both have and can dance between bullets of expert shots like Ultimate Hawkeye.
  4. Would he Team X know a single touch from Miles will most likely KO them? Spider Woman KOed Wolverine with her Venom Blast, Miles Venom Sting a few times could KO Wolverine or a all out Venom Sting might shut his brain down like others.
  5. Also Peter has not only fought with Ultimate Wolverine and Ultimate Sabertooth, but has had his mind switch in Ultimate Wolverines body by Jean. He knows what a Wolverine is capable of, he probably will think this was the same Wolverine and remember what he is capable of.

All this plays a roll in their defense.

anyway Im not arguing for one side or the other anymore.

#17 Posted by Shawnbaby (10458 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@mitran said:

I hate when I have to admit Spider-Man loses to Wolverine.

I love it :)

I for one think it is pretty close match.

@shawnbaby said:

@indiecomicsftw said:

@shawnbaby: I don't care so much on invisibility, It was the way you wrote it that Ultimate team stood no chance.

No, The way I wrote it clearly says that I don't think they take a majority...at no point did I say they had no chance.

I meant it seem that way to me.

Argument for Team Spider Man

  1. Also may I ask how Wolverine team wins? I know Laura might, but with Morals on would Logan Stab kid Spider Men?
  2. Both Spider Men still can and do have a Web Spam Advatage. Add to that the Venom sting is tranferable through webbing.
  3. Peter still has a useful Spider Sense and 10 ton strength at max. Miles is still over 2 tons in strength feats. Both have insane Durubaility to blasts and blunt damage. Both have and can dance between bullets of expert shots like Ultimate Hawkeye.
  4. Would he Team X know a single touch from Miles will most likely KO them? Spider Woman KOed Wolverine with her Venom Blast, Miles Venom Sting a few times could KO Wolverine or a all out Venom Sting might shut his brain down like others.
  5. Also Peter has not only fought with Ultimate Wolverine and Ultimate Sabertooth, but has had his mind switch in Ultimate Wolverines body by Jean. He knows what a Wolverine is capable of, he probably will think this was the same Wolverine and remember what he is capable of.

All this plays a roll in their defense.

anyway Im not arguing for one side or the other anymore.

1. Wolverine won't stab kids in character...but he's still a vastly superior fighter than can put them both down

2. They can Spam web...but in Character Parker is more likely to try and slug it out first

3. Ultimate Peter has also been shot multiple times by nameless fodder. Their durability is impressive...but lackluster when compared to Weapon X's

4. Miles Venom Blast is powerful...there's no denying that...but both Laura and Wolverine have taken more serious blasts than that. Spider-Woman's KO was a low show for Logan

5. Ultimate Spider-Man has encountered Wolverine a handful of times. 616 Logan has fought against Spider-Man a few times and they've been teammates on the avengers for quite some time now. Wolverine knows exactly what a Spider-Man can do. Ultimate Spider-man when he was in Wolverine's body was comically useless. What he knows about Logan boils down to "Sharp Claws, Heals Fast"

#18 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby:

1. Wolverine won't stab kids in character...but he's still a vastly superior fighter than can put them both down

I agree his stats and skill could beat them without stabbing them.

2. They can Spam web...but in Character Parker is more likely to try and slug it out first

Half those scans is Web Spamming in a single Panel of a fight.

3. Ultimate Peter has also been shot multiple times by nameless fodder. Their durability is impressive...but lackluster when compared to Weapon X's

This is unfair as Spider Man was shot by cops when he had his hands up and tried to talk them. This was Very Early Spider Man and was never shot again till he let him self be shot by Punisher, saving Cap. He also showed in later comics to have a bette grasp on his Spider Sense.

1) Ultimate Spidey does have Spider Sense to utilize his speed and agility best.

2-3) Spidey dodges bullets after they are fired and less than 20 feet away. Just dances around them.

4) Spider Man dances around Chain Guns from Weapon X soldiers.

5) Spidey easily dodges Assault Rifles fired by Swat Teams.

It is way more consistent to dodge and dance in between bullets than being shot one time by a Cop when Spidey had his hands up and was trying to reason with him in very early issues.

Your being unfair there.

4. Miles Venom Blast is powerful...there's no denying that...but both Laura and Wolverine have taken more serious blasts than that. Spider-Woman's KO was a low show for Logan

BS. That is bs. Why is it a low showing? What feats does Wolverine have that says Venom Blasts, which likely hit his heart and brain which are both ways that KO Logan in the past, is a low showing? That is a freaking cop out remark.

The Venom Sting is energy that travel through whatever it touches. Machines, Biological beings, or even Plastic. It can and should shut down Logan's heart and/or higher brain functions with enough hits or a super powerful hit. That is what it does.

Do not give me that cop out "oh that, that was a low showing" remark when Wolverine has no feats that suggest so. He can be KOed by brain damage and heart damage. Spider Woman Venom Blast was a all out blast in Wolverine head. That makes sense.

5. Ultimate Spider-Man has encountered Wolverine a handful of times. 616 Logan has fought against Spider-Man a few times and they've been teammates on the avengers for quite some time now. Wolverine knows exactly what a Spider-Man can do. Ultimate Spider-man when he was in Wolverine's body was comically useless. What he knows about Logan boils down to "Sharp Claws, Heals Fast"

He knows more than that. Ultimate Spider Man has fought with Wolverine In Marvel Team Up, Ultimate Power, and In his own Spider Man books.

He knows Wolverine strengths and powers. He heals fast, has a Adamantium skeleton, claws, very fast, and skilled. What is Peter's knowledge lacking in here? He knows what he needs to know. Miles is a wild card for Wolverine due to the extra powers. Also the Spider Men stats and Spider Sense is still a natural advantage for Miles for his suppose lack of skill. Even though Spider Woman and Cap have been training Miles since United We Stand.

I think your underselling Ultimate Pete and Miles.

#19 Posted by GraniteSoldier (7033 posts) - - Show Bio

Cursing myself, but I'm going to argue Team Weapon X. Miles, in character, is a weak link. He's very held back, perhaps even more so than Peter. And this is Ultimate Peter, not 616 Peter. 616 Spider-Man is, from everything I have seen/read, in my opinion vastly superior. The same way 616 Logan is far better than Ultimate Logan.

It really boils down to how quick this will be a 2v1. Ult Peter seems more prone to punching people than 616 Peter, even though he's weaker than 616. 616 Peter has trouble putting Wolverine down with punches, if he can at all. Miles' Venom Blast is powerful, but he does not often resort to it early enough to end a fight quickly. Wolverine and X-23 both go for the quick, efficient win. Wolverine won't kill either, but he can KO either with an adamantium fist.

The Spider's best bet is keeping distance and webbing the other team up. Again, in character for the Ult team, that's not usually their first course of action. Otherwise I don't see them being able to overcome the durability and damage threshold of the Weapon X team. Still, they are incredibly fast and if they stay mobile it can buy them enough time to eventually come to the web wrap option. Wolverine and X-23 have some pretty good combat showings though, so it's not unbelievable for them to land a hit against the speedy Spider-Men.

I think Weapon X takes it, mostly because the 616 versions of all characters tend to be hugely superior to their Ult versions (for realisms sake I guess). Assuming I am correct in understanding this is 616 Weapon X, they've dealt with stronger/faster/better skilled/more experienced Spider-Men than Ult Peter and Miles. I am not low-balling those two, simply being realistic. I say Weapon X 7/10 rounds.

#20 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: ...... how is 616 Logan superior? He has more feats, but Ultimate Logan feats are of the same quality, even when comparing high Ends.

http://www.comicvine.com/x-men/4060-3173/forums/ultimate-x-men-tribute-1458952/

Also a list of Ultimate that are superior in feats and powers to 616.

  • Colossus
  • Thing
  • Iron Man (Technopath)
  • Captain America
  • Hawkeye
  • Green Goblin
  • Doctor Octopus (Technopath as well)
  • Jean Phoenix (to Green Phoenix Jean)
  • Reed Richards (He is superior in many ways and has over a couple 100 years experienced than 616)
  • Invisible Woman (Force Fields held Nuke blasts and push back Tidal Waves)
  • Ultimate Quicksilver

All of these cats are Superior to their 616 counterparts! So try not to think in the misconception mind set 616 > Ultimates. Just wanted to but in here as I hate seeing anyone thinking Ultimates are inferior in every way to 616. ;)

#21 Edited by jashro44 (19850 posts) - - Show Bio

Leaning towards the spiders.

  • There is a 50ft starting distance meaning the spiders will have time to shoot webbing.
  • Ultimate Peter does seem to spam his webbing in terms of area of effect
  • All though Miles is the weak link I think Peter is MVP.

Unrelated note I don't think holding a nuke puts ultimate Sue above 616 Sue who has held back blasts from celestials. All though thats a different debate for another day.

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#22 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

Leaning towards the spiders.

  • There is a 50ft starting distance meaning the spiders will have time to shoot webbing.
  • Ultimate Peter does seem to spam his webbing in terms of area of effect
  • All though Miles is the weak link I think Peter is MVP.

Unrelated note I don't think holding a nuke puts ultimate Sue above 616 Sue who has held back blasts from celestials. All though thats a different debate for another day.

I think pushing back a ocean from New York City is better than anything 616 Sue ever did :)

#23 Posted by jashro44 (19850 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

Leaning towards the spiders.

  • There is a 50ft starting distance meaning the spiders will have time to shoot webbing.
  • Ultimate Peter does seem to spam his webbing in terms of area of effect
  • All though Miles is the weak link I think Peter is MVP.

Unrelated note I don't think holding a nuke puts ultimate Sue above 616 Sue who has held back blasts from celestials. All though thats a different debate for another day.

I think pushing back a ocean from New York City is better than anything 616 Sue ever did :)

She also has damaged a celestial and I recall Hickman stating on forumsrping its because she had enough juice....She also has restrained namor and black bolt at the same time IIRC.

All though whatever.

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#24 Posted by Wolverine08 (38919 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw:

Also may I ask how Wolverine team wins? I know Laura might, but with Morals on would Logan Stab kid Spider Men?

He can still take them down via his own vastly superior fighting skill and own great strength.

Peter still has a useful Spider Sense and 10 ton strength at max. Miles is still over 2 tons in strength feats. Both have insane Durubaility to blasts and blunt damage. Both have and can dance between bullets of expert shots like Ultimate Hawkeye.

That's all good. But due to the healing factors and adamantium skeleton Team Weapon X has on their side, they soak up blunt force trauma for breakfast. I mean, if the 30+ tonner Kaine putting all his force behind his punches trying to knock Wolverine just almost breaks his hand, I don't see these two physically inferior Spiders doing much better using blunt force. And neither will be soaking admantium claws in any part of their anatomy. And considering that 616 Wolverine is fast enough to make 616 Spider-Man think he was actually faster than him and Laura has comparable speed to him, the Spiders speed won't be much of a factor here.

Would he Team X know a single touch from Miles will most likely KO them? Spider Woman KOed Wolverine with her Venom Blast, Miles Venom Sting a few times could KO Wolverine or a all out Venom Sting might shut his brain down like others.

Low showing. Wolverine has feats that suggest he could tank a few Venom blasts.

Also Peter has not only fought with Ultimate Wolverine and Ultimate Sabertooth, but has had his mind switch in Ultimate Wolverines body by Jean. He knows what a Wolverine is capable of, he probably will think this was the same Wolverine and remember what he is capable of.

That's nice, but Ultimate Wolverine is inferior to 616 Wolverine in strength, fighting skill, and durability. And Parker was pretty useless when he had Ultimate Wolverine's body, and both Wolverine and X-23 have fought better Spiders before.

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#25 Edited by Wolverine08 (38919 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: ...... how is 616 Logan superior? He has more feats, but Ultimate Logan feats are of the same quality, even when comparing high Ends.

http://www.comicvine.com/x-men/4060-3173/forums/ultimate-x-men-tribute-1458952/

Also a list of Ultimate that are superior in feats and powers to 616.

  • Colossus
  • Thing
  • Iron Man (Technopath)
  • Captain America
  • Hawkeye
  • Green Goblin
  • Doctor Octopus (Technopath as well)
  • Jean Phoenix (to Green Phoenix Jean)
  • Reed Richards (He is superior in many ways and has over a couple 100 years experienced than 616)
  • Invisible Woman (Force Fields held Nuke blasts and push back Tidal Waves)
  • Ultimate Quicksilver

All of these cats are Superior to their 616 counterparts! So try not to think in the misconception mind set 616 > Ultimates. Just wanted to but in here as I hate seeing anyone thinking Ultimates are inferior in every way to 616. ;)

He's superior in fighting skill, durability, and strength.

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#26 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08:

He can still take them down via his own vastly superior fighting skill and own great strength.

Agreed.

That's all good. But due to the healing factors and adamantium skeleton Team Weapon X has on their side, they soak up blunt force trauma for breakfast. I mean, if the 30+ tonner Kaine putting all his force behind his punches trying to knock Wolverine just almost breaks his hand, I don't see these two physically inferior Spiders doing much better using blunt force. And neither will be soaking admantium claws in any part of their anatomy. And considering that 616 Wolverine is fast enough to make 616 Spider-Man think he was actually faster than him and Laura has comparable speed to him, the Spiders speed won't be much of a factor here.

Treu, in no way do I expect the Speed to overwhelm the other or vice versa and nor do I expect Blunt Force have any effect.

Low showing. Wolverine has feats that suggest he could tank a few Venom blasts.

Again I disagree with it as a low showing and it makes sense when one thinks about it in a logical way. I did that in above post. As for how many Venom Stings he can tank, probably more than a few, however Miles holds back on Venom Stings, and has use Venom Stings all out too. Like how 616 Peter was over and done when Miles use a more powerful Venom Sting.

That's nice, but Ultimate Wolverine is inferior to 616 Wolverine in strength, fighting skill, and durability. And Parker was pretty useless when he had Ultimate Wolverine's body, and both Wolverine and X-23 have fought better Spiders before.

All BS. Ultimate wolverine has survived all the high ends that 616 has survived in durability. the only difference being Ultimate Wolverine is he can be pulled apart at the joints where 616 cannot.

Ultimate Logan Survived Nuclear Missiles to his face. He survived as a head with no body!

Do not even try to pawn that crap Ultimate wolverine is inferior. All his feats are comparable. Also Ultimate wolverine beat Ultimate Thing when he had a genetic modified virus that mutated as fast as his healing factor!

Wolvie puts down Thing! Anyone who saw my Utlimate F4 Tribute knows how superior Thing is to 616 Thing.

More feats does not = superior.

#27 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

He's superior in fighting skill, durability, and strength.

Um no. Fighting skill, it was stated he was implanted with skill from all Weapon x could muster directly into his brain. He was stated by many to be the ultimate fighter in ultimate verse. Including Black Widow, Cap, Magneto, and Xavier. he proves this by taking down guys like Iron Man, She Hulk, Thing, and more out of his tier group!

Durability is a flat lie as I showed above.

Strength? How so? Did 616 Wolverine lift a car ever? How is he stronger? Ultimate Wolverine kicked Ultimate Thing and drew blood. Same Ultimate Thing who withstand Hyperion Punches to the face!

Ultimate Wolverine has fought half power Hyperion. At half power he still be a moon buster.

Here Wolverine battles a half powered Hyperion with no trouble. A full battle with Adamantium skeleton and Healing Factor tanking a half power Planet Buster!

Hyperion could not bring him down.

#28 Edited by Wolverine08 (38919 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw:

Again I disagree with it as a low showing and it makes sense when one thinks about it in a logical way. I did that in above post. As for how many Venom Stings he can tank, probably more than a few, however Miles holds back on Venom Stings, and has use Venom Stings all out too. Like how 616 Peter was over and done when Miles use a more powerful Venom Sting.

I pretty much consider it a low showing because the only times when Wolverine has been consistently dropped by heart trauma is when it's been completely severed like when Kaine did so in Scarlet Spider #17 or when Sabretooth ripped it out in Evolution. Considering that Spider-Woman didn't completely destroy his heart, he should have been able to tank it, and I think he should be able to do the same with Mile's Venom Blast.

All BS. Ultimate wolverine has survived all the high ends that 616 has survived in durability. the only difference being Ultimate Wolverine is he can be pulled apart at the joints where 616 cannot.

Ultimate Logan Survived Nuclear Missiles to his face. He survived as a head with no body!

You're talking about healing there. I never said that healing capabilities are inferior to 616 Wolverine's. He is dead even with him in that department. Problem is, his overall durability is inferior to that of 616 Wolverine's. His joints aren't laced up with adamantium like 616 Wolverine's are. It isn't anything major, but he is ultimately inferior to 616 Wolverine durability wise. In terms of fighting skill, 616 Wolverine has just gone up against more established fighters than Ultimate Wolverine. I know it really isn't fair since Ultimate Wolverine has been around for about 10 years while 616 Wolverine will be celebrating his 40th anniversary next year, but he's just been able to go up against and defeat more established fighters than Ultimate Wolverine. Strength wise, 616 Wolverine has flung a 1,600 lb dumpster with one hand, knocked out a 2,000 lb bear with two punches, knocked out a 15 tonner Apocalypse enhanced Caliban, held up six men with one hand, snapped an adult dinosaur's neck, etc. He's just superior strength wise to Ultimate Wolverine. Overall, Ultimate Wolverine just isn't a dead even equal to 616 Wolverine.

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#29 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw:

Again I disagree with it as a low showing and it makes sense when one thinks about it in a logical way. I did that in above post. As for how many Venom Stings he can tank, probably more than a few, however Miles holds back on Venom Stings, and has use Venom Stings all out too. Like how 616 Peter was over and done when Miles use a more powerful Venom Sting.

I pretty much consider it a low showing because the only times when Wolverine has been consistently dropped by heart trauma is when it's been completely severed like when Kaine did so in Scarlet Spider #17 or when Sabretooth ripped it out in Evolution. Considering that Spider-Woman didn't completely destroy his heart, he should have been able to tank it, and I think he should be able to do the same with Mile's Venom Blast.

All BS. Ultimate wolverine has survived all the high ends that 616 has survived in durability. the only difference being Ultimate Wolverine is he can be pulled apart at the joints where 616 cannot.

Ultimate Logan Survived Nuclear Missiles to his face. He survived as a head with no body!

You're talking about healing there. I never said that healing capabilities are inferior to 616 Wolverine's. He is dead even with him in that department. Problem is, his overall durability is inferior to that of 616 Wolverine's. His joints aren't laced up with adamantium like 616 Wolverine's are. It isn't anything major, but he is ultimately inferior to 616 Wolverine durability wise. In terms of fighting skill, 616 Wolverine has just gone up against more established fighters than Ultimate Wolverine. I know it really isn't fair since Ultimate Wolverine has been around for about 10 years while 616 Wolverine will be celebrating his 40th anniversary next year, but he's just been able to go up against and defeat more established fighters than Ultimate Wolverine. Strength wise, 616 Wolverine has flung a 1,600 lb dumpster with one hand, knocked out a 2,000 lb bear with two punches, knocked out a 15 tonner Apocalypse enhanced Caliban, held up six men with one hand, snapped an adult dinosaur's neck, etc. He's just superior strength wise to Ultimate Wolverine. Overall, Ultimate Wolverine just isn't a dead even equal to 616 Wolverine.

I meant Brain trauma. Spider woman aimed her Blast into his skull. Since it is eletrical like in nature, it is logical to believe Wolverine Brain was fried. Something that also drops him in the past.

I thought by Durability you meant Healing and Adamantium. I agree he is less abot becuase he can be pulled apart unlike 616.

It is unfair to judge skill because of the age in comics gap. However I can say Ult. Wolverine has never been out done in a fight by anyone except Sabertooth as far as skill goes. He has beaten everyone else in that Category, ven Ultimate Cap never fights Logan in H2H in their 2 encounters. I think Ultimate Wolverine is comparable.

Those are great STRIKING feats and other than the Dumptser (one time feat it seems) none are superior in to this in striking power.

Banshee's scream is so powerful, she blows away Wolverine, Xavier, and close to 2000 pounds of wieght with ease. Wolverine walks through it with strength alone.

Shows of that Blur speed and puts Ultimate Thing down with a kick to his face.

All comparable to 616 Wolverine's feats.

#30 Edited by Shawnbaby (10458 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

He's superior in fighting skill, durability, and strength.

Um no. Fighting skill, it was stated he was implanted with skill from all Weapon x could muster directly into his brain. He was stated by many to be the ultimate fighter in ultimate verse. Including Black Widow, Cap, Magneto, and Xavier. he proves this by taking down guys like Iron Man, She Hulk, Thing, and more out of his tier group!

Durability is a flat lie as I showed above.

Strength? How so? Did 616 Wolverine lift a car ever? How is he stronger? Ultimate Wolverine kicked Ultimate Thing and drew blood. Same Ultimate Thing who withstand Hyperion Punches to the face!

Ultimate Wolverine has fought half power Hyperion. At half power he still be a moon buster.

Here Wolverine battles a half powered Hyperion with no trouble. A full battle with Adamantium skeleton and Healing Factor tanking a half power Planet Buster!

Hyperion could not bring him down.

616 Wolverine has fought and even occasionally beaten 616 Hulk. Out of his Tier characters are 616's bread and butter.

616 Wolverine has regenerated from nothing but his adamantium skeleton. True, he's never survived headless...but that's because 616 adamantium is superior to Ultimate Adamantium.

Ultimate Wolverine has Statements that suggest he's one of the best fighters on Ultimate Earth. 616 has Feats that put him there. Feats > Statements.

#31 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw: @granitesoldier: @jashro44: @indiecomicsftw: I realize I am derailing my own thread with Ultimate Wolverine vs 616 Wolverine. Im done with that now. They are very close to each other in feats. Some Ultimate characters are flat out superior to 616 versions. That is all I wanted to say.

#32 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: Look, I already showed Ultimate Wolverine coming back as a skeleton too as we see in the Nuke scan..... really? I also stated above Fighting skill. Ultimate Wolverine has never been out skilled except by Ultimate Sabes, who also had all that Combat Info implanted in his head. Ultimate cap refuses to Close Combat Wolverine. Wolverine has decimated every other fight of skill in his X-Men books. He has comparable feats. But Ultimate Comic haters going to hate ;)

#33 Posted by GraniteSoldier (7033 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw said:

@granitesoldier: ...... how is 616 Logan superior? He has more feats, but Ultimate Logan feats are of the same quality, even when comparing high Ends.

http://www.comicvine.com/x-men/4060-3173/forums/ultimate-x-men-tribute-1458952/

Also a list of Ultimate that are superior in feats and powers to 616.

  • Colossus
  • Thing
  • Iron Man (Technopath)
  • Captain America
  • Hawkeye
  • Green Goblin
  • Doctor Octopus (Technopath as well)
  • Jean Phoenix (to Green Phoenix Jean)
  • Reed Richards (He is superior in many ways and has over a couple 100 years experienced than 616)
  • Invisible Woman (Force Fields held Nuke blasts and push back Tidal Waves)
  • Ultimate Quicksilver

All of these cats are Superior to their 616 counterparts! So try not to think in the misconception mind set 616 > Ultimates. Just wanted to but in here as I hate seeing anyone thinking Ultimates are inferior in every way to 616. ;)

He's superior in fighting skill, durability, and strength.

616 Peter >>> Ultimate Peter. I would argue that 616 Goblin is more dangerous than Ultimate Goblin because he is smarter and craftier as opposed to how savage Ult Goblin is. Invisible Woman is par for the course in both universes, her powers really are no different. Cap is Ult universe is just more brutish, and has lower morals. 616 is more tactically sound and has tighter morals. Hand to hand I'd give to 616, but I am derailing the thread at this point. By and large 616 is superior to their Ult versions. Is that always the case? No of course not.

In the matter for THIS particular fight, which is what matters here, Ult Peter is not as powerful as 616, and Ult Wolverine is not has skilled or durable as 616 Wolverine. We are using Ult Peter and 616 Wolverine, that was the foundation of my post.

Don't assume that someone doesn't like one thing over another because they are arguing against it. But I am not going to fanboy Spidey here.

And this wasn't directed at you @wolverine08, but rather at ICFTW.

#34 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: I disagree on many points you made, which is rare as I agree with alot you write in the past, and I never stated 616 Peter <<< Ultimate.

#35 Posted by GraniteSoldier (7033 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: I disagree on many points you made, which is rare as I agree with alot you write in the past, and I never stated 616 Peter <<< Ultimate.

That's fine, everyone reads and interprets things differently. Never said you needed to agree with me on the Ultimates, not everyone does. It's what makes the world go 'round my friend.

I know you didn't say Ult Spidey > than 616 Spidey. I was trying to make a point for this argument. In character (which is always a big factor in Spider-Man fights imo) 616 Spidey can struggle with 616 Wolvie due to his durability and skill. 616 Spidey is quicker to go to his webs against enemies he knows are physically his superior (Scorpion, Rhino, etc) or he has trouble putting down via fists. Ult Spidey doesn't. From what I've seen and read he always seems to go for fists first. He also has the disadvantage of experience. 616 Spidey has a lot more, as does 616 Wolvie.

What I'm basically boiling down to is 616 Wolverine is used to a more experienced and, for the most part, physically superior Spider-Man. Ult Spidey is not used to a Wolverine as durable or skilled as 616 Wolvie. I am in no way discrediting Ult Wolvie with that statement, I just think 616 Wolvie happens to be superior in those respects.

That was all I was trying to state. I didn't mean to start an Ultimate vs 616 war haha.

#36 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier said:

@indiecomicsftw said:

@granitesoldier: I disagree on many points you made, which is rare as I agree with alot you write in the past, and I never stated 616 Peter <<< Ultimate.

That's fine, everyone reads and interprets things differently. Never said you needed to agree with me on the Ultimates, not everyone does. It's what makes the world go 'round my friend.

I know you didn't say Ult Spidey > than 616 Spidey. I was trying to make a point for this argument. In character (which is always a big factor in Spider-Man fights imo) 616 Spidey can struggle with 616 Wolvie due to his durability and skill. 616 Spidey is quicker to go to his webs against enemies he knows are physically his superior (Scorpion, Rhino, etc) or he has trouble putting down via fists. Ult Spidey doesn't. From what I've seen and read he always seems to go for fists first. He also has the disadvantage of experience. 616 Spidey has a lot more, as does 616 Wolvie.

What I'm basically boiling down to is 616 Wolverine is used to a more experienced and, for the most part, physically superior Spider-Man. Ult Spidey is not used to a Wolverine as durable or skilled as 616 Wolvie. I am in no way discrediting Ult Wolvie with that statement, I just think 616 Wolvie happens to be superior in those respects.

That was all I was trying to state. I didn't mean to start an Ultimate vs 616 war haha.

And I can agree with all that. That is all a fair point.

I just HATE.... HAAATE when people say 616 is Superior to Ultimates. It irks me so hard as I am the biggest fan of Ultimates, and wish 616 Marvel get a Reboot already like DC has done twice now. The Classic showings in no way match the current ones. The history is so long that its hard to jump on as a reader. Also the RETCONs in 616 is downright sad. There is rectons for retcons.

I.... hate.... main Marvel. I read Ghost Rider and Incredible Hulk (from 60s to 2000s). Thats it for 616.

#37 Posted by GraniteSoldier (7033 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw:

Haha, I limit my Marvel intake. Outside Spider-Man and Hulk, and some X-Men, not much else (since Venom and Scarlet are canned that is).

#38 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier said:

@indiecomicsftw:

Haha, I limit my Marvel intake. Outside Spider-Man and Hulk, and some X-Men, not much else (since Venom and Scarlet are canned that is).

I used to be nothing but Marvel fan. Had all kinds of scattered issues Werewolf By Night, Son of Satan, Man called Nova, Omega the Unknown, Defenders, New Avengers, Venom, Spider Man, Sabertooth, Toxin, X-Force, X-Men, ect.....

But as time goes on, the characters and even power sets hardly resemble what they were. Then we have all these good titles get canned. Just done with Marvel and branched out into Image, Dark Horse, IDW, and Dynamite comics now.

#39 Posted by Shawnbaby (10458 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: Look, I already showed Ultimate Wolverine coming back as a skeleton too as we see in the Nuke scan..... really? I also stated above Fighting skill. Ultimate Wolverine has never been out skilled except by Ultimate Sabes, who also had all that Combat Info implanted in his head. Ultimate cap refuses to Close Combat Wolverine. Wolverine has decimated every other fight of skill in his X-Men books. He has comparable feats. But Ultimate Comic haters going to hate ;)

Why do you assume that I hate Ultimate Comics? Because i don't think Wolverine is as skilled in Ultimate Comics as 616? Some Ultimate characters are superior to 616...some are less. Some are stronger in one area but weaker in another (Ultimate Cap is Stronger and More durable than 616...but not as skilled). So stop throwing around accusations about people hating Ultimate jut because they don't agree with your assessment. Don't go running off about other people's supposed bias when yours is clearly hanging off of your sleeve.

Fact 1: 616 Parker is superior to Ultimate Parker in pretty much every conceivable way. He's got more experience, better feats of strength and agility, better fighting skill. I won't debate these facts with you because I do not feel there is anything to debate there.

Fact 2: 616 Parker has a hard time fighting Wolverine. They have an about even rating fighting each other. Parker has the advantage in Speed, Strength,and Agility... Logan has the advantage in Skill and Durability. Now here's Logan facing off a younger, weaker, slower, and less skilled Peter Parker. And Miles is even younger, weaker, and less experienced than Ultimate Pete.

Fact 3: Ultimate Pete and Miles have tons of potential....but that's all it is...potential. Given some more time to develop themselves they could definitely beat Weapon X....but they aren't there yet. That's why I don't think they can win a majority.

#40 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby said:

Why do you assume that I hate Ultimate Comics? Because i don't think Wolverine is as skilled in Ultimate Comics as 616? Some Ultimate characters are superior to 616...some are less. Some are stronger in one area but weaker in another (Ultimate Cap is Stronger and More durable than 616...but not as skilled). So stop throwing around accusations about people hating Ultimate jut because they don't agree with your assessment. Don't go running off about other people's supposed bias when yours is clearly hanging off of your sleeve.

Fact 1: 616 Parker is superior to Ultimate Parker in pretty much every conceivable way. He's got more experience, better feats of strength and agility, better fighting skill. I won't debate these facts with you because I do not feel there is anything to debate there.

Fact 2: 616 Parker has a hard time fighting Wolverine. They have an about even rating fighting each other. Parker has the advantage in Speed, Strength,and Agility... Logan has the advantage in Skill and Durability. Now here's Logan facing off a younger, weaker, slower, and less skilled Peter Parker. And Miles is even younger, weaker, and less experienced than Ultimate Pete.

Fact 3: Ultimate Pete and Miles have tons of potential....but that's all it is...potential. Given some more time to develop themselves they could definitely beat Weapon X....but they aren't there yet. That's why I don't think they can win a majority.

Shawn, I do sometimes think your a hater on Ultimate (Along with half this site) and I no longer care to hide it.

Fact 1: no crap, never have I tried to argue here that 616 Peter is not better than Ultimate.

Fact 2: Some peopel disagree with you and I am one of them. Ultimate Peter still has superior Strength, Spider Sense, and Webbing ability. on top of that Wolverine is hold back in character, so all he can do is hope to proably is KO Parker which is hard given Ultimate Pete durability feats.

Fact 3: That is a fair point and will not argue that.

I just feel you undersell Ultimate characters.

#41 Posted by Shawnbaby (10458 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby said:

Why do you assume that I hate Ultimate Comics? Because i don't think Wolverine is as skilled in Ultimate Comics as 616? Some Ultimate characters are superior to 616...some are less. Some are stronger in one area but weaker in another (Ultimate Cap is Stronger and More durable than 616...but not as skilled). So stop throwing around accusations about people hating Ultimate jut because they don't agree with your assessment. Don't go running off about other people's supposed bias when yours is clearly hanging off of your sleeve.

Fact 1: 616 Parker is superior to Ultimate Parker in pretty much every conceivable way. He's got more experience, better feats of strength and agility, better fighting skill. I won't debate these facts with you because I do not feel there is anything to debate there.

Fact 2: 616 Parker has a hard time fighting Wolverine. They have an about even rating fighting each other. Parker has the advantage in Speed, Strength,and Agility... Logan has the advantage in Skill and Durability. Now here's Logan facing off a younger, weaker, slower, and less skilled Peter Parker. And Miles is even younger, weaker, and less experienced than Ultimate Pete.

Fact 3: Ultimate Pete and Miles have tons of potential....but that's all it is...potential. Given some more time to develop themselves they could definitely beat Weapon X....but they aren't there yet. That's why I don't think they can win a majority.

Shawn, I do sometimes think your a hater on Ultimate (Along with half this site) and I no longer care to hide it.

Fact 1: no crap, never have I tried to argue here that 616 Peter is not better than Ultimate.

Fact 2: Some peopel disagree with you and I am one of them. Ultimate Peter still has superior Strength, Spider Sense, and Webbing ability. on top of that Wolverine is hold back in character, so all he can do is hope to proably is KO Parker which is hard given Ultimate Pete durability feats.

Fact 3: That is a fair point and will not argue that.

I just feel you undersell Ultimate characters.

You don't know crap about me and you should really stop throwing around accusations. I collected Ultimate Spider-Man, The Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men right up until around Ultimatum (when I stopped collecting pretty much everything for a couple of years). I don't hate the Ultimate universe. At all. In fact, the opposite is true. I just don't think you have to make a choice between Ultimate and 616. So, honestly...Stop accusing me of being an Ultimate Hater just because i happen to think that the fact that this match up highly favours Weapon X. I never said that The Ultimate Team doesn't have a chance. I never said they get stomped. All I ever said is that i don't think they can take a majority. So how exactly am I being an Ultimate Hater? Just because I don't agree with you?

#42 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: I do not care whether you think Weapon X wins or not.You, @granitesoldier, and @wolverine08 have made logical and very convincing debates as to why Weapon X wins. That is not what my problem with you is about. Stop making it that way.

All I ever got irked about was the accusations of 616 is superior to Ultimate characters, which seems to be your main argument of anything 616 vs Ultimates. You come off as a hater to me. I have NEVER EVER heard you say one good thing about Ultimate characters other than "They are inferior" in any debate vs 616. So you come off as a hater.

I do not know you, only my perception of your posts. My whole argument is people need to stop lowballing Ultimates in a debate. People need to stop comparing them to 616 because they are not 616. They have their own feats, characters, and sometimes different powers. They are unique. Yet every Ultimate vs whoever is filled with post of "616 version wins" or "Inferior to 616 version" and it annoys me to hell. Im going to start bringing it up now.

#43 Posted by Shawnbaby (10458 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: I do not care whether you think Weapon X wins or not.You, @granitesoldier, and @wolverine08 have made logical and very convincing debates as to why Weapon X wins and lose. That is not what my problem with you is about. Stop making it that way.

All I ever got irked about was the accusations of 616 is superior to Ultimate characters, which seems to be your main argument of anything 616 vs Ultimates. You come off as a hater to me. I have NEVER EVER heard you say one good thing about Ultimate characters other than "They are inferior" in any debate vs 616. So you come off as a hater.

I do not know you, only my perception of your posts. My whole argument is people need to stop lowballing Ultimates in a debate. People need to stop comparing them to 616 because they are not 616. They have their own feats, characters, and sometimes different powers. They are unique. Yet every Ultimate vs whoever is filled with post of "616 version wins" or "Inferior to 616 version" and it annoys me to hell. Im going to start bringing it up now.

So, you admit that my reasoning for why Weapon X wins this Battle is both Logical and Convincing...yet you attack me because you think I'm an Ultimate Hater? How does that work exactly?

I have never made any blanket statements saying Ultimate Characters are always Inferior to 616. And I'm not going to engage in a "You always say this" debate with you. Bring up Specifics or GTFO

If you have a problem with how I judge other battles...take it up with me in those battles. I'd be glad to have an actual civilised debate with you about them. If you feel like I've missed something about those characters...its something we can talk about in a civilised fashion. Attacking me because you believe I hate the Ultimate Verse is not the way to go about it.

#44 Edited by dondave (34645 posts) - - Show Bio

Lets be civil, people

#45 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby:

So, you admit that my reasoning for why Weapon X wins this Battle is both Logical and Convincing...yet you attack me because you think I'm an Ultimate Hater? How does that work exactly?

I attacked you cause of statements like this.

"Ultimate Peter is slower than 616 Peter. He's Weaker than 616. He's way less experienced than 616. He doesn't use webbing as effectively as 616. And when it comes down to it...Webbing is the only way Spider-Man can keep Wolverine down."

Wow, way to compare him as slower, weaker, retarded at fighting, ect, than 616 Peter. Anything nice in there at all, or simply how sucky Ultimate Peter is at life? It reads pretty hateful to me. Its your opinion, you can say what ya want. I feel the need to jump in and defend Ultimate showings.

I have never made any blanket statements saying Ultimate Characters are always Inferior to 616. And I'm not going to engage in a "You always say this" debate with you. Bring up Specifics or GTFO

Your right, you never blatantly stated this. Thats just me reading it that way I guess.

If you have a problem with how I judge other battles...take it up with me in those battles. I'd be glad to have an actual civilised debate with you about them. If you feel like I've missed something about those characters...its something we can talk about in a civilised fashion. Attacking me because you believe I hate the Ultimate Verse is not the way to go about it.

I agree with that. I guess I am acting like a man hating lesbian looking to attack any guy that looks at me funny at this point. I will just drop it.

#46 Posted by Shawnbaby (10458 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby:

So, you admit that my reasoning for why Weapon X wins this Battle is both Logical and Convincing...yet you attack me because you think I'm an Ultimate Hater? How does that work exactly?

I attacked you cause of statements like this.

"Ultimate Peter is slower than 616 Peter. He's Weaker than 616. He's way less experienced than 616. He doesn't use webbing as effectively as 616. And when it comes down to it...Webbing is the only way Spider-Man can keep Wolverine down."

Wow, way to compare him as slower, weaker, retarded at fighting, ect, than 616 Peter. Anything nice in there at all, or simply how sucky Ultimate Peter is at life? It reads pretty hateful to me. Its your opinion, you can say what ya want. I feel the need to jump in and defend Ultimate showings.

He is slower, weaker and Less experienced. You've even admitted to these facts yourself:

Fact 1: no crap, never have I tried to argue here that 616 Peter is not better than Ultimate.

How does this make me an Ultimate Hater? The rest of that stuff is all on you. I never said Ultimate was "retarded at fighting", I never made any statements about how Peter "Sucks at life". You read way too far into everything I said and then you attacked me for it. You're acting like a jealous girlfriend that thinks I'm cheating on you because I said hi to the neighbour.

616 Peter, when he died, had been Spider-Man for over a Decade of Comic Book Time. His Body had long since stopped developing. Ultimate Peter had not reached the potential of his powers. He was still developing his Strength and his Speed. Still learning how to use his powers effectively. Given time, he might have equalled out to 616 Peter...but he never got that time.

#47 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: Well, I guess I am acting like the obsessive GF. I am irked over hearing anyone say Ultimate Characters are inferior. I am just sick of seeing it and going on the offensive.

#48 Posted by Shawnbaby (10458 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: Well, I guess I am acting like the obsessive GF. I am irked over hearing anyone say Ultimate Characters are inferior. I am just sick of seeing it and going on the offensive.

Which makes you look like the bad guy. Poor Strategy.

#49 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby said:

@indiecomicsftw said:

@shawnbaby: Well, I guess I am acting like the obsessive GF. I am irked over hearing anyone say Ultimate Characters are inferior. I am just sick of seeing it and going on the offensive.

Which makes you look like the bad guy. Poor Strategy.

I did it to my self and cannot help the way I feel.

#50 Posted by patrat18 (9006 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

Lets be civil, people

Yes lets.