Ultimate Green Goblin VS Wolverine

@wolverine08: @jashro44: @cable_extreme: On the subject of Wolverines suppose awesome speed.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/combat-reflex-speed-wolverine-vs-batman-1488018/

By your terrible logic of Wolverine having Spider Man Speed, then Batman does as well >_> its terrible Logic.

Also for 616 Peter physicals being superior, maybe slightly superior, however Miles who was 2 years younger and less Experiance than Peter was able to tag and dodge 616 Peters attacks.

So saying Ultimate Peter physicals are way off is not so. They are very close. Average Spider Man for both 616 and Ultimate is 9 tons, Mach 2+ speeds, and durability is roughly the exact same.

@cadencev2: I don't agree with some feats represented for batman in that thread. For the record I do think ultimate Peter is faster then wolverine I just don't think there is a huge gap.

As for 616 Peter vs Ultimate Peter I never said Ultimate Peter was way off I said 616 Peter was physically suepioer. And no 616 spider-man has never been a 9 tonner. Hand books have him ranked as a 10 tonner so I don't even know why you keep making that claim. His feats suggest he is even beyond 10 tons (10-20 tons). No idea what Ultimate Peters average is but I would argue he is beyond 10 tons as well [10-15 tons] (then again I don't know too many of his low showings).

We have been over the Miles vs Peter fight before. Not going to go in circles here. Neither of them were going full out, Peters thoughts were distracted making his spider-sense not as sharp as it should.

Im sorry, 10 toner. 616 Green Goblin is stated 9 toner, as is Lizard a 12 toner and Lizard overpowered Peter alot. So 10 tons sounds right as Pete average.

Well said.

I don't doubt Wolverine can do some damage, however, his ability to control fire would also mean Wolverine is getting burned in the process regardless who lands a shot. GG is much more than capable of KO'ing Wolverine. Spiderman has done it with his 10 ton strength. Grant it, some say that is a low showing, but GG is much stronger than Spiderman, and his the ability to control fire in the process, not only blunt force, but he is also making wolverine heal his whole body repeatedly. Such healing would be incredibly taxing on his stamina. GG has shown to be extremely durable and have a healing factor. I believe Wolverine has the strength to cut GG, but how deep I do not know. His durability is to the extreme.

@cable_extreme: I'm starting to wonder if you aren't reading what I'm saying or just being purposely obtuse. I never said Wolverine is just as fast as Spider-Man,

I said he SLIGHTLY kept up with 616 Spider-Man and made him think for a moment he could be possibly faster than him. He tagged Speed Demon plain and simple. He speed was enough to suprise Kaine (Spider-Man's physically superior clone). He has better speed feats. He is faster. Considering how Wolverine has healed through having his neck broken when he got ran over by a car and had his body and organs crushed (including his neck) breaking his neck isn't a good option for Goblin to win. And considering how Wolverine is faster than Goblin, that won't happen. Goblin met a fast fighter (Ultimate Captain America), and became largely ineffective. Wolverine will do the same. Combined with his superior fighting skills, healing factor, and strategic ability, he'll take the majority over Goblin.

And I haven't "insulted" you. It's the truth that everytime people like me, Esquire, Supersoldier, etc have proved you wrong, you resort to bad logic and lowballing feats. If that's your plan, you should just leave.

Um yes you did, you said Wolverine kept an EVEN pace with Spiderman. Now your speaking for other people. Bad logic is saying Wolverine is faster than GG because he missed all of his shots when he went up against spiderman ( In the specific scan you provided). Regardless of what Spiderman thought, he still landed shots and dodged everything he wanted to dodge. Perhaps the reason you might think Wolverine wins and that my logic is bad is perhaps that you might be a little biased. And anything short of Wolverine's best feats you say I am low balling, hence your name Wolverine08...

#230 Edited by Wolverine08 (5369 posts) - 3 hours, 51 minutes ago - Show Bio

@cable_extreme

Don't be obtuse. There where multiple moments in that fight where Wolverine was keeping a dead even speed pace with Peter. Peter was even so astonished by his speed that he wondered if Logan was faster than him. That and tagging Speed Demon are better speed feats than Goblin has ever shown. In Scarlet Spider 18, Kaine (616 Spider-Man's physically superior clone) was even surprised by Wolverine's speed himself.. While Kaine was having some trouble dodging the multiple machine gun fire being placed at them from multiple shooters, Kaine noted that Wolverine "Hadn't even been touched, and that for a short guy weighing a thousand pounds, Wolverine moved like a ninja. A short midget ninja".

Wolverine has better speed feats, and has kept up with faster people than Goblin has. He's faster than him. Plain and simple.

@cadencev2:

Stop Lowballing "Ultimate" characters.

I may ... when you stop low balling Wolverine. :P

Difference is Wolverine has Low and high showings. Cannot low ball canon feats and figuring a average. Ult. Hulk has no low feats. That's just low balling. ;)

Im sorry but Spider Man is shown and has trouble with ( toner (Stated and shown) Green Goblin as well 12 toner (Stated in bios and shown) Lizard.

He was 25 toner ONLY when he had a power upgrade from the Other and crap. He is not standard 25 toner. That's foolish. Luke Cage is 25 toner and he would easily overpower Spidey.

His average showings put him around 10 ton. GG is incredibly strong, easily overpowering Ult Spiderman. Wolverine's high showings are different than his consistent showings. A low showing I would classify is beating beaten by daredevil via nervestrike. Having your head smashed into the concrete wouldn't be so low of a showing. I would suggest looking at those scans again, unless you want me to bring out his durability feats one by one. Nearly every street level fighter and their children are bullet timers.

Not really.... Hulk has many problems in his Calm State. He needs to amp up or be in duress to reach pass 100+.

Also Hulk back in those days was 80 tons in Calm State, not 100 tons. Also Rhino beaten Hulk when he had Power Amps from the Leader :/

Hulk is not a good example.... Im a major Hulk fan.

Keep in mind that Bio's are more of a bare minimum thing. Example is ultimate cap is ranked as an enhanced human in his bio (marvel defines enhanced as being able to lift 800 pounds up to 2 tons...) Yet we know based on feats he is a lot stronger then that.

I would argue based on feats that spider-man and Lizard are beyond what they are rated in the hand books.

All though I am perfectly fine with you saying spider-man is a 10 tonner (even if I do disagree) just saying keep in mind handbooks do have a tendency to down play.

For how long? How many pages before he rushes back to melee? As it is he jumped up to Torch to absorb his fire. Then he floated back to the ground to continue to melee with Pete.

C'mon man, I am linking from your respect thread. Don't try to mislead me. We both know Osborn will keep it melee. So the question here is who can soak more and dish out more.

I'm not saying he won't unleash a few fireballs. But I will say I can't recall him ever stalling and spamming at anything he could take on head to head. Also if Wolverine is trying to face him head to head, he isn't going to turn tail and run off, leap a few stories and then start spamming fireballs. It isn't in his character.

It never has been.

Also let me see if I understand this right. You are arguing with people who have read everything Goblin has been in and a heavy block of Wolverine's appearances while you know Goblin via him being explained by Cadence and scans?

You also note Goblin leaping away to heal. I can't recall him ever doing that either. Though he did throw Pete at Cap when Cap was kicking his backside and tried to have Pete fight for him. Cap turned Pete on Goblin who KO'ed him for a page or eight. (At least it's eight pages before we see him again.)

Logan isn't getting his neck broken. If you think so, you need to excuse yourself from this battle and read some books.

Keeping up with 616 is different then Ult Spidey. Let me spell it out for you. 616 started out in high school, moved onto college in the 70's and by 1987 when that Spidey vs Wolverine comic came out, Pete was a grown adult. Ultimate Spidey was 15 when he debuted and still living at home when he died so he has 2-3 years of experience vs 616's 6-8. Ult Spidey gets hit because of inexperience. He is fast, but not faster then bullets (a NYPD officer and Hawkeye), or his enemies (any main one, including Goblin) because he is so green. A trope spread through the entire Ultimate Spider-man series was of a kid in over his head, barely lucking out and surviving. He is inferior to 616 in battle (as much as I prefer him as a character) and 616 Wolverine is closer to 616 Spider-man then he is Ultimate. If you want to see an example of Goblin vs a skilled opponent who isn't cannon fodder, look again at Ult Cap in the Ultimate Six arc.

Goblin isn't one to run, or spam fire. He gets in your face and overwhelms you. He tries that with Wolverine he is going to take worse then he gets. He'll eventually (and if plot is not involved very quickly indeed) get his head taken off.

If Goblin decided that he was so over matched he has no choice but to spam fire from a distance, Wolverine hides. And Wolverine either comes out of surprise to one hit kill Goblin, or the fight ends inconclusively. Well no. Because Osborn will eventually go back to being Osborn and he'll die in human form when Logan takes his head off at a time and place of Logan's choosing..

@jashro44:

Yeah, true.

I think the point I was showing is he uses his Range when it benefits him. Most opponents he fought he can brawl into submission with ease. However even then he used his Fire Blasting for advantage.

Again your asking for feats from a character in only 5 Comic Arcs and brawls with Spider Man 60% of the time. Same Spider Man who has way faster speed and spider sense than Wolverine. Makes no sense for Goblin to use range then.

Against Helicopters or Tanks.... HE BLASTS THEM! I am going by the feats we have and it is in character for Norman to use that super brain of his in combat when the situations demands range or Close Combat.

Wolverine stabs Norman, Norman will not treat him like Hob Goblin, Spidey, or Doc Ock who he can easily beat into Submission. He will fight at range like he does against Copters, Hulk Buster SHIELD, or Tanks!

What I meant was that he slightly kept an even pace with Spider-Man for a couple of moments in fight. No, you just have egregiously asinine logic that even little children would see flaws in. That's all there is too it. Considering that I saw you say yesterday that Wolverine is overrated, maybe you're the one here who is "biased" buddy..............................................................................................................................................................................................

Sure, sure ... stating Wolverine would get annihilated by Spider-Man, when he has very strong showings against Spider-Man ... more so than the singular lower end one ... must be perfectly fair then :)

From the scans I just seen, GG should have the better chance at a win.

@indiecomicsftw: Oh do you now?

Do not mind him bro. He is very anti Ultimates. Now hurry up and set up those matches I want when ya can.

What? I never said Wolvie would get Annihilated. Spider Man is superior to Wolverine in every way minus skill and has the very useful Web Incap.

Its facts.

@cadencev2 said:

@indiecomicsftw said:

From the scans I just seen, GG should have the better chance at a win.

@texasdeathmatch said:

@indiecomicsftw: Oh do you now?

Do not mind him bro. He is very anti Ultimates. Now hurry up and set up those matches I want when ya can.

@super_soldierxii said:

Sure, sure ... stating Wolverine would get annihilated by Spider-Man, when he has very strong showings against Spider-Man ... more so than the singular lower end one ... must be perfectly fair then :)

What? I never said Wolvie would get Annihilated. Spider Man is superior to Wolverine in every way minus skill and has the very useful Web Incap.

Its facts.

Sure, use one low showing against Spider-Man when the FACT is that Wolverine has a pretty good record against Spider-Man and has held his own against him multiple times (Didn't win, held his own). Really good stuff *sarcasm*.

I highlighted the Important part.

@cadencev2 said:

@indiecomicsftw said:

From the scans I just seen, GG should have the better chance at a win.

@texasdeathmatch said:

@indiecomicsftw: Oh do you now?

Do not mind him bro. He is very anti Ultimates. Now hurry up and set up those matches I want when ya can.

@super_soldierxii said:

Sure, sure ... stating Wolverine would get annihilated by Spider-Man, when he has very strong showings against Spider-Man ... more so than the singular lower end one ... must be perfectly fair then :)

What? I never said Wolvie would get Annihilated. Spider Man is superior to Wolverine in every way minus skill and has the very useful Web Incap.

Its facts.

Lol. You're kidding right ... right?? Like, you posting this pic is you being completely sarcastic ... isn't it?

And yeah, you did state Spider-Man would run circles around Wolverine. A few times. Most recently in the New 52 Deathstroke vs. Wolverine thread I believe. Forget where exactly and can't be bothered to find it. Might be in another thread. Or even this one.

You also deemed it somehow valid to state;

Heck Osborn can hold Wolverine for a Incap if he wanted to

Lol.

And no, GG was not soloing the Ultimates. Stop it. Just stop. Yamate Kudasai!

@cadencev2: Actually Wolverine has managed to cut himself free of Spiders webbing more times than he has been strung up by it. He cut through it in a training fight with Peter, when he fought Kaine, and in another instance in Marvel Adventures when he was mind controlled (although Marvel Adventures is non-cannon IIRC).

@laflux: yea your right about marvel adventures being non canon.

@jashro44: As long as this is an completely random encounter, I favor @super_soldierxii's assessment. However, if both are aware of what each other are capable off, then I'd go with Ult GG.

I was pretty sure of that. However, in terms of fighting and power levels, it seemed pretty consistent in terms of Power levels, hence why I don't mind making reference to feats in the comics.

@super_soldierxii:

Run Circles? No. I think Travel Speed they are near same. Combat speed? Hell yes Spidey dances around Wolverine. Everyday.

Until Wolverine has a 4000 FPS bullet dodge feat, he is a chump to Spidey. Add in Pre Cog Spider Sense, Spidey will everyday dance around Wolvie IF WRITTEN RIGHT! Dont even get started on Way of the Spider he had before death.....

Wolverine cannot hold a candle to Spider Man in Combat or Reflex Speed. As I posted before, I will again. Many Veteran Posters agree he is no faster than say Batman :/

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/combat-reflex-speed-wolverine-vs-batman-1488018/

I used to be convince Wolverine was as fast as Spider Man. This thread CONVINCED me otherwise.

So.......................................

True, but he is still Outclass in stats.

@laflux: marvel adventures is a universe designed for a younger audience. Iirc in one comic galactus came to earth so the avengers played chess with him to leave. Could be wrong but I think they played baseball with him as well. I wouldn't take it too seriously. All though yea wolverine has cut webbing a few times.

You really thought Wolverine was just as fast as Spider-Man? Wow, shows you're lack of knowledge on both characters. The point @super_soldierxii was making was that Wolverine has kept up with Spidey before on multiple occasions, and is very fast.

You've got that Backwards. In Travel Speed Spider-Man outclasses Wolverine (even on foot)...in combat Speed they are closer than you are giving Logan Credit for. Yes, Peter is faster...But Wolverine's greater fighting skill does a good job of closing that distance.

@cadencev2:

Run Circles? No. I think Travel Speed they are near same. Combat speed? Hell yes Spidey dances around Wolverine. Everyday.

Until Wolverine has a 4000 FPS bullet dodge feat, he is a chump to Spidey. Add in Pre Cog Spider Sense, Spidey will everyday dance around Wolvie IF WRITTEN RIGHT! Dont even get started on Way of the Spider he had before death.....

Wolverine cannot hold a candle to Spider Man in Combat or Reflex Speed. As I posted before, I will again. Many Veteran Posters agree he is no faster than say Batman :/

Problem with your "if written right" scenario, is Wolverine has contended with Spider-Man consistently and Logan, "when written right" would kill him with one blow. The "when written right" argument works tremendously both ways. His reflexes are superhuman. You stating he's oh so much slower, is low balling. Thanks for highlighting the point marvelously therein.

Logan has dodged bullets repeatedly as well - but avoidance is not his strength. Combat reflexes are. All the same, he's moved faster than the eye can follow. Faster than Psylocke's mind could keep up with. Has tagged Speed Demon (who Spidey had troubles tagging, despite precog) ... sorry, but your bias here does see you low balling Wolverine just a tad.

And obviously the "Hulk Buster" armaments are such in name only. Otherwise, they would have "busted" Hulk over and again ... he would be easily containable and no trouble at all whatsoever. I can call my right jab "The Mayweather Killer". At the end of the end of the day, he'd probably think it tickles. So you stating with bated breath that Green Goblin has soaked, gasp (drum roll please), "Hulk Buster" bullets amounts to a lot of hogwash with a splash of hyperbole.

And Ultimate Hulk is a pale reflection of his 616 counterpart. So there. :P

I'd put it at the other way. Spider-Man stated he can cover 2 miles in a few seconds using Parkour, outran Kraven and his cheetahs while not at full health (so faster than 60 mph), has outpaced tracking bullets via running and webslinging, caught up to a Van doing 90 mph from a standing start. He's also been stated outright to be faster than Speeding cars, faster than Cap, who can run at over 60 mph and Mongoose, who's bio says he can run at over 100 mph, couldn't touch him without drugging him with gas

In terms of Travel Speed, Wolverine is far and away outclassed by Peter/SpOck (probably cause his legs are too stubby >:) ). Combat Speed is were the two are close. Kaine has Praised Logan on his combat speed, Peter questioned his speed compared to Logan in their Graveyard fight. Both have tagged Speed-Demon (albeit with some difficulty). Logan was also able to sucker punch Spider-Man so fast his Spider-Sense didn't have time to register the threat (and ended up with Peter KOed >:( ).

In fact the only time Peter has made Logan look slow was in his fight with the X-Men in Secret Wars (but he also got the drop on Professor X, and his webbing held a Ms Marvel empowered Rogue, so you have to question that), and Avenging Spider-Man, where Logan was soundly beaten by SpOck. But even then, Logan still was able to end up with his claws at SpOck throat in a rematch (Though I feel that SpOck's arrogance and inexperience didn't help).

@wolverine08: Whats funny is that Super Soldier and Shawn believe Wolverine is as fast as Spidey.

" Durp, wow, shows wat yous knows!"

@super_soldierxii: @shawnbaby:

After making that thread and seeing many other veteran users beleive Wolverine is barely Peak Human in Combat Speed, I diagree now n days.

Ahem! You forgot to mention, in the SpOck fight, Logan wasn't anticipating the aggression, had his claws sheathed the whole time, was obviously holding back and pulling his punches ...

:P

In COMBAT SPEED. That's where Logan is close to Spider-Man. What is so hard to understand about that?

Yes he is. Maybe you did not know this, I am a very avid Hulk fan since I owned all the Incredible Hulk comics from 60s-2000s.

So yes, Ultimate Hulk is paled to WWH, Savage Hulk, and Gravage Hulk. However Ultimate Hulk beats out Professor Hulk and Grey Hulk.

Little info to the non knowledgeable of Ultimate Verse :P

We NEVER said he was as fast as Spidey bud. C'mon now. Try to read what's written please.

I agree with you on that assessment. I'm just "Hulk" busting your balls a little. :)

So @cadencev2 thinks that just because a couple of people think Wolverine is peak human, it's true? The guy who has tagged Speed Demon, easily dodged X-23 (who has superhuman speed) while trying to not hurt her, had such great combat speed that he made Spider-Man think he could be faster than him, surprised Kaine (Spider-Man's physically superior clone), etc is peak human? Definitely! *sarcasm*.

@laflux: Also, in the Dark Reign ASM issues, Peter, during his battle with Daken, compliments Logan's speed again.

It's clear that Wolverine is at least in the same class of speed as Spider-man. He's definitely a little below, but not by that much.

Thats how it is comes off to me as. If that is not the intent, then sry for reading into it.

Trying to get me more riled up than I am! :)

Look, I have my Opinion on it, and from what I seen recently I thought twice on his Speed now n days.

Until you post a statement from Stan Lee reading "Wolverine moves at 5000 FPS in Close Combat, Spider Man moves at 6000 FPS in Close Combat, Aunt May moves at 2 FPS going to the bathroom.." then all we can do is Speculate.

@super_soldierxii: Jeez cut me some slack :P. Logan was holding back, by not having his his claws sheathed, and wasn't aware of SpOck anger, but SpOck did note Logan's "Speed" and "Savagery". I think the writer was trying to show that Logan was just holding back his claws, SpOck even says "he sheathes his claws, out of some sign of restraint", rather than referring to his Speed. And in anycase, Yost was going make sure Logan would lose that fight. So even if he did bear his claws, he would ended up wildly missing outside of a small scratch, and then, SpOck would have Chock-Slammed him to Hell (which would have probably annoyed you more >:) ).

Like multiple users have said now. In straight running speed, Spider-Man kills Wolverine. It's in combat speed where they are very close.

Also, Stan Lee didn't create Wolverine.......................................................................................................................................................................................................................