#201 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

@granitesoldier said:

@cadencev2:

The reason I say Wolverine gets the endurance edge is because essentially any character that has a healing factor has shown that it can get over-taxed (except maybe the Hulk, but that also escalates with his rage). Wolverine has shown that his can be over taxed, or over strained, if needed to continually heal from long, sustained punishment. This might be a little bit of ABC logic, but I think the same principle would apply to Green Goblin. Blunt strikes such as punches, and other similar strikes don't seem to tax healing factors nearly as much as say a stab or deep cut. The logic would be because you are getting into organs and deep tissues which would normally be fatal without the healing factor.

So, what I am saying, is that Wolverine, blow for blow, is likely to take less damage and therefore less healing taxation than Green Goblin. Not only do to his incredibly high healing factor, but due to his adamantium skeleton which will reduce blunt force impact. The real taxing on Wolverine will come from Goblin's fire attacks. But, how likely is Osbourne to sit at a distance and do the entire fight at range like Iron Man and blast Wolverine to bits? I don't think that's very in character. Osbourne is smart, but he revels in overpowering his enemies as well.

On the flip side, even if he were to realize that's his only hope and were to do so, how likely is Wolverine to stand there and let him? Wolverine has experienced combat for over 100 years, he's going to dodge, cover, and hide. Then maneuver under cover where Goblin can't see him to close the distance again. And if he can't, certainly at some point such an energy exertion (like I said this fight could go for days) would tax Goblin's endurance. Even as a Super Saiyan, repeated Kamehameha's will wear down Goku (different Universe, different rules I know, but I think the point is valid).

If Goblin takes to range, and stays at range, I say it's a stalemate. I don't think Wolverine would stay on the street and let Goblin blast him. Take the fight to the subways were Goblin can't use his insane leaping and maintain distance. But you could argument Goblin would be too smart to follow. So if this becomes an attempt at a range fight, stalemate. If it mostly stays up close, Wolverine (barely) after a several long, bloody days. But even then Goblin still has the chance to win even up close, I just see slightly more wins in Wolverine's favor.

You do realize Wolverine will be taking A LOT of fire damage as well?

Yes, I included that bit as well. The fire is Goblins biggest/only severe threat in this. Fire vs healing and claws vs healing. If Goblin this Wolverine with a strong enough and well timed fire blast, I honestly think he can KO Wolverine in one hit. I'm not disregarding it.

If Goblin melts off Wolverine flesh, that requires a lot more healing than a slice. A slice heals fairly quickly due to skin just having to be healing in a space less than an inch in width. A full on melted body requires nearly every cell to be replicated. By your argument of taxation of Healing factors, Wolverine has a disadvantage.

#202 Posted by Wolverine08 (45039 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire said:

@cable_extreme said:

Are you trying to say Wolverine is the same speed as 616 spiderman? Goblin is faster, stronger, has flame powers, skin very durable with healing factor, can leap over buildings fairly easily. Wolverine will get KO'ed

He could make the claim using the same logic you're using. Ultimate Green Goblin can fight effectively against Ultimate Spider-Man, so obviously he must have the same speed. Wolverine can fight effectively against Kaine and Spider-Man, so obviously he must have the same speed.

I don't believe that to be sound logic, but that's the argument I've been seeing for Goblin's speed.

In Wolverine vs Spiderman encounters, you can clearly see who has the speed advantages. If Wolverine matched Spiderman's speed, then all he would need to do is simply cut Spiderman for the win. But he never gets a good enough shot to hurt spidey. Hence proving Spiderman is dodging the majority of his strikes.

Wolverine has better speed feats than Goblin, and has kept up with faster people than he has. He's faster than Goblin. When Osborn met a skilled fighter who was also fast (Ultimate Captain America), he became largely ineffective. Wolverine can do the same thing with his speed, and also has the better healing factor and an obscenely large gap in fighting skill. Goblin's biggest chance is his fire, and sadly, Wolverine soaked up things just as hot and even hotter on many occasions and kept coming back. He takes the majority here.

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#203 Posted by GraniteSoldier (8589 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme:

Can Goblin hit that heavy, that accurately, and not over-exert himself? Does his fire abilities not eventually stress his body? Because if he misses and has to do it again, how many times can he essentially "super charge" (for lack of a better term) his fire blasts before it starts to take a toll on him? I only ask because even fire based heroes like Human Torch have been shown to have limits on how much and how often they can nuke before they start to wear down.

Wolverine can take a limb with every cut, which would tax healing greatly, and the exertion is not very great.

#204 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier said:

@cable_extreme:

Can Goblin hit that heavy, that accurately, and not over-exert himself? Does his fire abilities not eventually stress his body? Because if he misses and has to do it again, how many times can he essentially "super charge" (for lack of a better term) his fire blasts before it starts to take a toll on him? I only ask because even fire based heroes like Human Torch have been shown to have limits on how much and how often they can nuke before they start to wear down.

Wolverine can take a limb with every cut, which would tax healing greatly, and the exertion is not very great.

@cadencev2 can probably answer your question better than me. He originally informed me about this character. Though you last line is assuming GG has to be within melee range, which he doesn't.

#205 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

@esquire said:

@cable_extreme said:

Are you trying to say Wolverine is the same speed as 616 spiderman? Goblin is faster, stronger, has flame powers, skin very durable with healing factor, can leap over buildings fairly easily. Wolverine will get KO'ed

He could make the claim using the same logic you're using. Ultimate Green Goblin can fight effectively against Ultimate Spider-Man, so obviously he must have the same speed. Wolverine can fight effectively against Kaine and Spider-Man, so obviously he must have the same speed.

I don't believe that to be sound logic, but that's the argument I've been seeing for Goblin's speed.

In Wolverine vs Spiderman encounters, you can clearly see who has the speed advantages. If Wolverine matched Spiderman's speed, then all he would need to do is simply cut Spiderman for the win. But he never gets a good enough shot to hurt spidey. Hence proving Spiderman is dodging the majority of his strikes.

Wolverine has better speed feats than Goblin, and has kept up with faster people than he has. He's faster than Goblin. When Osborn met a skilled fighter who was also fast (Ultimate Captain America), he became largely ineffective. Wolverine can do the same thing with his speed, and also has the better healing factor and an obscenely large gap in fighting skill. Goblin's biggest chance is his fire, and sadly, Wolverine soaked up things just as hot and even hotter on many occasions and kept coming back. He takes the majority here.

Did you read what @cadencev2 posted about GG speed? Jumping from the bottom of the ocean and a great deal above the water? You should go look at that.

#206 Posted by GraniteSoldier (8589 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme:

I'm aware, I was using it as a representation since someone earlier posted about GG staying at range and just blasting Wolverine. Up close it just adds serious fire damage to his considerable strength, meaning Wolverine will need to be smart an dodge as much as he tanks.

#207 Posted by Wolverine08 (45039 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@esquire said:

@cable_extreme said:

Are you trying to say Wolverine is the same speed as 616 spiderman? Goblin is faster, stronger, has flame powers, skin very durable with healing factor, can leap over buildings fairly easily. Wolverine will get KO'ed

He could make the claim using the same logic you're using. Ultimate Green Goblin can fight effectively against Ultimate Spider-Man, so obviously he must have the same speed. Wolverine can fight effectively against Kaine and Spider-Man, so obviously he must have the same speed.

I don't believe that to be sound logic, but that's the argument I've been seeing for Goblin's speed.

In Wolverine vs Spiderman encounters, you can clearly see who has the speed advantages. If Wolverine matched Spiderman's speed, then all he would need to do is simply cut Spiderman for the win. But he never gets a good enough shot to hurt spidey. Hence proving Spiderman is dodging the majority of his strikes.

Wolverine has better speed feats than Goblin, and has kept up with faster people than he has. He's faster than Goblin. When Osborn met a skilled fighter who was also fast (Ultimate Captain America), he became largely ineffective. Wolverine can do the same thing with his speed, and also has the better healing factor and an obscenely large gap in fighting skill. Goblin's biggest chance is his fire, and sadly, Wolverine soaked up things just as hot and even hotter on many occasions and kept coming back. He takes the majority here.

Did you read what @cadencev2 posted about GG speed? Jumping from the bottom of the ocean and a great deal above the water? You should go look at that.

Wolverine has kept up with faster people than Goblin has. He's shown more speed feats. He's faster. Jumping isn't a showcase of speed. Osborn meet a skilled fighter who was also fast (Ultimate Captain America), and ended up looking like a buffoon as he could barely touch him. Logan could do the same thing. Couple with his advantages in fighting skill and the better healing factor (which should be able to soak up Goblin's fire), Logan should take majority here in a tough fight.

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#208 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme:

I'm aware, I was using it as a representation since someone earlier posted about GG staying at range and just blasting Wolverine. Up close it just adds serious fire damage to his considerable strength, meaning Wolverine will need to be smart an dodge as much as he tanks.

Agreed.

#209 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@esquire said:

@cable_extreme said:

Are you trying to say Wolverine is the same speed as 616 spiderman? Goblin is faster, stronger, has flame powers, skin very durable with healing factor, can leap over buildings fairly easily. Wolverine will get KO'ed

He could make the claim using the same logic you're using. Ultimate Green Goblin can fight effectively against Ultimate Spider-Man, so obviously he must have the same speed. Wolverine can fight effectively against Kaine and Spider-Man, so obviously he must have the same speed.

I don't believe that to be sound logic, but that's the argument I've been seeing for Goblin's speed.

In Wolverine vs Spiderman encounters, you can clearly see who has the speed advantages. If Wolverine matched Spiderman's speed, then all he would need to do is simply cut Spiderman for the win. But he never gets a good enough shot to hurt spidey. Hence proving Spiderman is dodging the majority of his strikes.

Wolverine has better speed feats than Goblin, and has kept up with faster people than he has. He's faster than Goblin. When Osborn met a skilled fighter who was also fast (Ultimate Captain America), he became largely ineffective. Wolverine can do the same thing with his speed, and also has the better healing factor and an obscenely large gap in fighting skill. Goblin's biggest chance is his fire, and sadly, Wolverine soaked up things just as hot and even hotter on many occasions and kept coming back. He takes the majority here.

Did you read what @cadencev2 posted about GG speed? Jumping from the bottom of the ocean and a great deal above the water? You should go look at that.

Wolverine has kept up with faster people than Goblin has. He's shown more speed feats. He's faster. Jumping isn't a showcase of speed. Osborn meet a skilled fighter who was also fast (Ultimate Captain America), and ended up looking like a buffoon as he could barely touch him. Logan could do the same thing. Couple with his advantages in fighting skill and the better healing factor (which should be able to soak up Goblin's fire), Logan should take majority here in a tough fight.

Show me, that sounds cool.

#210 Posted by Wolverine08 (45039 posts) - - Show Bio
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#211 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

In Wolverine vs Spiderman encounters, you can clearly see who has the speed advantages. If Wolverine matched Spiderman's speed, then all he would need to do is simply cut Spiderman for the win. But he never gets a good enough shot to hurt spidey. Hence proving Spiderman is dodging the majority of his strikes.

Meh, Wolverine holds back against heroes. He accidentally skewered Spidey through the chest once when he forgot to do so.

But again, fighting effectively against an opponent is not a valid measure of speed. Slower characters fight effectively against faster ones all the time in comics, even when the speed gap is so great that a prolonged battle should be impossible. Writers often ignore speed in order to write an entertaining fight. Wolverine has fought effectively against characters as fast and faster than the ones Goblin has fought effectively against. Even if this was a valid way to measure speed, which it's not, Wolverine comes out ahead.

And if we look for other speed feats, like bullet dodging, disappearing from view, speed-blitzing people...Goblin is sorely lacking in those sorts of feats. There's not much material to suggest he's even comparable to Wolverine in speed, much less his superior.

Oh, and are you going to bother responding to the actually substantial post I directed to you?

#212 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme:

Show you Wolverine's speed feats?

Show me the instance of GG meeting Ultimate Captain America and being useless.

#213 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire said:

@cable_extreme said:

In Wolverine vs Spiderman encounters, you can clearly see who has the speed advantages. If Wolverine matched Spiderman's speed, then all he would need to do is simply cut Spiderman for the win. But he never gets a good enough shot to hurt spidey. Hence proving Spiderman is dodging the majority of his strikes.

Meh, Wolverine holds back against heroes. He accidentally skewered Spidey through the chest once when he forgot to do so.

But again, fighting effectively against an opponent is not a valid measure of speed. Slower characters fight effectively against faster ones all the time in comics, even when the speed gap is so great that a prolonged battle should be impossible. Writers often ignore speed in order to write an entertaining fight. Wolverine has fought effectively against characters as fast and faster than the ones Goblin has fought effectively against. Even if this was a valid way to measure speed, which it's not, Wolverine comes out ahead.

And if we look for other speed feats, like bullet dodging, disappearing from view, speed-blitzing people...Goblin is sorely lacking in those sorts of feats. There's not much material to suggest he's even comparable to Wolverine in speed, much less his superior.

Oh, and are you going to bother responding to the actually substantial post I directed to you?

So your Saying Wolverine is going to beat a guy that can jump over buildings and simply stay out of reach, while blasting away with fire?

#214 Edited by Wolverine08 (45039 posts) - - Show Bio

Wolverine is faster than Goblin.

Keeps an even pace with Spider-Man, and even makes Pete say "Is he..... faster than me?". Also a durability feat here with Peter giving everything he has into his punches, and can't wipe the smile off his face.

Easily dodges X-23 (who has superhuman speed), while trying to avoid hurting her. Also creates after images.

Vanishes while standing right in front of people.

Tags Speed Demon

Dodges helicopter bullets and missiles.

Slashes 5 guns faster than the human eye can see.

Online
#215 Posted by Wolverine08 (45039 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire said:

@cable_extreme said:

In Wolverine vs Spiderman encounters, you can clearly see who has the speed advantages. If Wolverine matched Spiderman's speed, then all he would need to do is simply cut Spiderman for the win. But he never gets a good enough shot to hurt spidey. Hence proving Spiderman is dodging the majority of his strikes.

Meh, Wolverine holds back against heroes. He accidentally skewered Spidey through the chest once when he forgot to do so.

But again, fighting effectively against an opponent is not a valid measure of speed. Slower characters fight effectively against faster ones all the time in comics, even when the speed gap is so great that a prolonged battle should be impossible. Writers often ignore speed in order to write an entertaining fight. Wolverine has fought effectively against characters as fast and faster than the ones Goblin has fought effectively against. Even if this was a valid way to measure speed, which it's not, Wolverine comes out ahead.

And if we look for other speed feats, like bullet dodging, disappearing from view, speed-blitzing people...Goblin is sorely lacking in those sorts of feats. There's not much material to suggest he's even comparable to Wolverine in speed, much less his superior.

Oh, and are you going to bother responding to the actually substantial post I directed to you?

So your Saying Wolverine is going to beat a guy that can jump over buildings and simply stay out of reach, while blasting away with fire?

Yes, by using his superior fighting skill, speed, and healing factor (to soak up Goblin's fire).

Online
#216 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

So your Saying Wolverine is going to beat a guy that can jump over buildings and simply stay out of reach, while blasting away with fire?

I thought I'd made it pretty clear who I think is going to win this fight.

And it's not like Goblin is going to do that in-character, since almost all he does is brawl. Maybe he'll try that 2 or 3 out of 10, if he has time to realize how lethal Logan is before Wolverine kills him. And if he does try it, Wolverine can stealth away and ambush Goblin once Logan's all healed up. Norman has no enhanced senses and Logan's one of the sneakier characters in comics. Wolverine is perfectly capable of ghosting away only to pulp Goblin's brain without warning. None of Goblin's feats indicate that 6 claws to the brain won't one-shot him like they've done to the Hulk.

For those Ultimate Cap scans, the fight is posted here:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/ultimate-green-goblin-vs-wolverine-1495376/?page=2#js-message-10303074

It's the fourth block of scans, 23 long. Goblin vs Cap is ongoing throughout, and Norman never once tags him, although Cap has no such issues.

Oh, and are you going to bother responding to the actually substantial post I directed to you?

#217 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier said:

@cable_extreme:

Can Goblin hit that heavy, that accurately, and not over-exert himself? Does his fire abilities not eventually stress his body? Because if he misses and has to do it again, how many times can he essentially "super charge" (for lack of a better term) his fire blasts before it starts to take a toll on him? I only ask because even fire based heroes like Human Torch have been shown to have limits on how much and how often they can nuke before they start to wear down.

Wolverine can take a limb with every cut, which would tax healing greatly, and the exertion is not very great.

@cadencev2 can probably answer your question better than me. He originally informed me about this character. Though you last line is assuming GG has to be within melee range, which he doesn't.

GG can actually Absorb fire to empower his own fire abilities as we last seen of GG. Also I have never seen any stress from his Fire Using before this.

#218 Posted by spiderbuck (2454 posts) - - Show Bio

Logan.

#219 Edited by GraniteSoldier (8589 posts) - - Show Bio
#220 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#221 Posted by RisingBean (4502 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: but what is funny is within a page or two, Goblin is back to melee. Also Wolverine isn't going to give him fire to absorb.

@esquire: Cable doesn't have an answer for you. He is arguing in circles.

We've established Goblin has never fought by blasting at range, yet he keeps bringing it up.

We keep showing Wolverine to be faster, yet we need to keep saying it.

There is the "but burning him will do more damage" when the trade off is one burn in order to get a dismembering or decapitating shot.

The fact is, while Goblin is no joke, he is fighting a guy who has all the answers for his powerset. And while he can win, he won't very often.

#222 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: GG has fought at blasting range. He uses his range more than a few times for a benefits.

In his last fight with Spider Man he was flying in the sky using range from the fire he absorb >_>

#223 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@esquire said:

@cable_extreme said:

So your Saying Wolverine is going to beat a guy that can jump over buildings and simply stay out of reach, while blasting away with fire?

I thought I'd made it pretty clear who I think is going to win this fight.

And it's not like Goblin is going to do that in-character, since almost all he does is brawl. Maybe he'll try that 2 or 3 out of 10, if he has time to realize how lethal Logan is before Wolverine kills him. And if he does try it, Wolverine can stealth away and ambush Goblin once Logan's all healed up. Norman has no enhanced senses and Logan's one of the sneakier characters in comics. Wolverine is perfectly capable of ghosting away only to pulp Goblin's brain without warning. None of Goblin's feats indicate that 6 claws to the brain won't one-shot him like they've done to the Hulk.

For those Ultimate Cap scans, the fight is posted here:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/ultimate-green-goblin-vs-wolverine-1495376/?page=2#js-message-10303074

It's the fourth block of scans, 23 long. Goblin vs Cap is ongoing throughout, and Norman never once tags him, although Cap has no such issues.

Oh, and are you going to bother responding to the actually substantial post I directed to you?

I'm replying to the "Substantial post" right now, unless I missed one. I went from 950 post to the post count I am in 1-2 days, so I have been replying to a lot. Green Goblin has blasted in range before.Goblin can just jump up a building and wait to spot Logan. Thanks for the scans I will review them.

#224 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

@esquire said:

@cable_extreme said:

In Wolverine vs Spiderman encounters, you can clearly see who has the speed advantages. If Wolverine matched Spiderman's speed, then all he would need to do is simply cut Spiderman for the win. But he never gets a good enough shot to hurt spidey. Hence proving Spiderman is dodging the majority of his strikes.

Meh, Wolverine holds back against heroes. He accidentally skewered Spidey through the chest once when he forgot to do so.

But again, fighting effectively against an opponent is not a valid measure of speed. Slower characters fight effectively against faster ones all the time in comics, even when the speed gap is so great that a prolonged battle should be impossible. Writers often ignore speed in order to write an entertaining fight. Wolverine has fought effectively against characters as fast and faster than the ones Goblin has fought effectively against. Even if this was a valid way to measure speed, which it's not, Wolverine comes out ahead.

And if we look for other speed feats, like bullet dodging, disappearing from view, speed-blitzing people...Goblin is sorely lacking in those sorts of feats. There's not much material to suggest he's even comparable to Wolverine in speed, much less his superior.

Oh, and are you going to bother responding to the actually substantial post I directed to you?

So your Saying Wolverine is going to beat a guy that can jump over buildings and simply stay out of reach, while blasting away with fire?

Yes, by using his superior fighting skill, speed, and healing factor (to soak up Goblin's fire).

Speed is useless in this fight since if Goblin is getting hurt he can jump away and heal. Goblin has a pretty fast healing factor, I don't know if Wolverine has too much of an advantage there. If Wolverine has no chance of touching him, how will he win? GG can simply keep jumping out of range.

#225 Posted by Wolverine08 (45039 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@esquire said:

@cable_extreme said:

In Wolverine vs Spiderman encounters, you can clearly see who has the speed advantages. If Wolverine matched Spiderman's speed, then all he would need to do is simply cut Spiderman for the win. But he never gets a good enough shot to hurt spidey. Hence proving Spiderman is dodging the majority of his strikes.

Meh, Wolverine holds back against heroes. He accidentally skewered Spidey through the chest once when he forgot to do so.

But again, fighting effectively against an opponent is not a valid measure of speed. Slower characters fight effectively against faster ones all the time in comics, even when the speed gap is so great that a prolonged battle should be impossible. Writers often ignore speed in order to write an entertaining fight. Wolverine has fought effectively against characters as fast and faster than the ones Goblin has fought effectively against. Even if this was a valid way to measure speed, which it's not, Wolverine comes out ahead.

And if we look for other speed feats, like bullet dodging, disappearing from view, speed-blitzing people...Goblin is sorely lacking in those sorts of feats. There's not much material to suggest he's even comparable to Wolverine in speed, much less his superior.

Oh, and are you going to bother responding to the actually substantial post I directed to you?

So your Saying Wolverine is going to beat a guy that can jump over buildings and simply stay out of reach, while blasting away with fire?

Yes, by using his superior fighting skill, speed, and healing factor (to soak up Goblin's fire).

Speed is useless in this fight since if Goblin is getting hurt he can jump away and heal. Goblin has a pretty fast healing factor, I don't know if Wolverine has too much of an advantage there. If Wolverine has no chance of touching him, how will he win? GG can simply keep jumping out of range.

Goblin has almost always brawled in his fights. He's rarely resorted to range battle. That's going to be a big problem going up against a guy who's faster than him, has a better HF, and is a more skilled fighterthan him.

Online
#226 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@esquire said:

@cable_extreme said:

In Wolverine vs Spiderman encounters, you can clearly see who has the speed advantages. If Wolverine matched Spiderman's speed, then all he would need to do is simply cut Spiderman for the win. But he never gets a good enough shot to hurt spidey. Hence proving Spiderman is dodging the majority of his strikes.

Meh, Wolverine holds back against heroes. He accidentally skewered Spidey through the chest once when he forgot to do so.

But again, fighting effectively against an opponent is not a valid measure of speed. Slower characters fight effectively against faster ones all the time in comics, even when the speed gap is so great that a prolonged battle should be impossible. Writers often ignore speed in order to write an entertaining fight. Wolverine has fought effectively against characters as fast and faster than the ones Goblin has fought effectively against. Even if this was a valid way to measure speed, which it's not, Wolverine comes out ahead.

And if we look for other speed feats, like bullet dodging, disappearing from view, speed-blitzing people...Goblin is sorely lacking in those sorts of feats. There's not much material to suggest he's even comparable to Wolverine in speed, much less his superior.

Oh, and are you going to bother responding to the actually substantial post I directed to you?

So your Saying Wolverine is going to beat a guy that can jump over buildings and simply stay out of reach, while blasting away with fire?

Yes, by using his superior fighting skill, speed, and healing factor (to soak up Goblin's fire).

Speed is useless in this fight since if Goblin is getting hurt he can jump away and heal. Goblin has a pretty fast healing factor, I don't know if Wolverine has too much of an advantage there. If Wolverine has no chance of touching him, how will he win? GG can simply keep jumping out of range.

Goblin has almost always brawled in his fights. He's rarely resorted to range battle. That's going to be a big problem going up against a guy who's faster than him, has a better HF, and is a more skilled fighterthan him.

Wolverine is not faster than him, and he has resorted to ranged battle. GG healing factor is near instant, skill is near useless vs someone who can destroy tanks with a single blast.

#227 Posted by Wolverine08 (45039 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@esquire said:

@cable_extreme said:

In Wolverine vs Spiderman encounters, you can clearly see who has the speed advantages. If Wolverine matched Spiderman's speed, then all he would need to do is simply cut Spiderman for the win. But he never gets a good enough shot to hurt spidey. Hence proving Spiderman is dodging the majority of his strikes.

Meh, Wolverine holds back against heroes. He accidentally skewered Spidey through the chest once when he forgot to do so.

But again, fighting effectively against an opponent is not a valid measure of speed. Slower characters fight effectively against faster ones all the time in comics, even when the speed gap is so great that a prolonged battle should be impossible. Writers often ignore speed in order to write an entertaining fight. Wolverine has fought effectively against characters as fast and faster than the ones Goblin has fought effectively against. Even if this was a valid way to measure speed, which it's not, Wolverine comes out ahead.

And if we look for other speed feats, like bullet dodging, disappearing from view, speed-blitzing people...Goblin is sorely lacking in those sorts of feats. There's not much material to suggest he's even comparable to Wolverine in speed, much less his superior.

Oh, and are you going to bother responding to the actually substantial post I directed to you?

So your Saying Wolverine is going to beat a guy that can jump over buildings and simply stay out of reach, while blasting away with fire?

Yes, by using his superior fighting skill, speed, and healing factor (to soak up Goblin's fire).

Speed is useless in this fight since if Goblin is getting hurt he can jump away and heal. Goblin has a pretty fast healing factor, I don't know if Wolverine has too much of an advantage there. If Wolverine has no chance of touching him, how will he win? GG can simply keep jumping out of range.

Goblin has almost always brawled in his fights. He's rarely resorted to range battle. That's going to be a big problem going up against a guy who's faster than him, has a better HF, and is a more skilled fighterthan him.

Wolverine is not faster than him, and he has resorted to ranged battle. GG healing factor is near instant, skill is near useless vs someone who can destroy tanks with a single blast.

Sorry man. I've shown multiple scans that prove that Logan is faster than him. Goblin main style is brawling, and he has rarely resorted to using his fire and ranged battle. Brawling against a guy that is faster than him, has a better HF, and is more skilled than him is going to make Goblin lose the majority here. Osborn could scrape out a win or two with his fire (Logan has soaked up things just as hot, and even hotter than Goblin's fire), but Wolverine takes the majority.

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#228 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

Wolverine is faster than Goblin.

Keeps an even pace with Spider-Man, and even makes Pete say "Is he..... faster than me?". Also a durability feat here with Peter giving everything he has into his punches, and can't wipe the smile off his face.

Easily dodges X-23 (who has superhuman speed), while trying to avoid hurting her. Also creates after images.

Vanishes while standing right in front of people.

Tags Speed Demon

Dodges helicopter bullets and missiles.

Slashes 5 guns faster than the human eye can see.

Look at the Spiderman scan you provided, look how Spiderman easily dodged all of Wolverine's moves after Spiderman let him tackle him. The rest of the speed feats show enhanced speed, but nothing more than GG. And what is that Wolverine is saying to Spiderman about spiderman winning by snapping his neck?

#229 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@esquire said:

@cable_extreme said:

In Wolverine vs Spiderman encounters, you can clearly see who has the speed advantages. If Wolverine matched Spiderman's speed, then all he would need to do is simply cut Spiderman for the win. But he never gets a good enough shot to hurt spidey. Hence proving Spiderman is dodging the majority of his strikes.

Meh, Wolverine holds back against heroes. He accidentally skewered Spidey through the chest once when he forgot to do so.

But again, fighting effectively against an opponent is not a valid measure of speed. Slower characters fight effectively against faster ones all the time in comics, even when the speed gap is so great that a prolonged battle should be impossible. Writers often ignore speed in order to write an entertaining fight. Wolverine has fought effectively against characters as fast and faster than the ones Goblin has fought effectively against. Even if this was a valid way to measure speed, which it's not, Wolverine comes out ahead.

And if we look for other speed feats, like bullet dodging, disappearing from view, speed-blitzing people...Goblin is sorely lacking in those sorts of feats. There's not much material to suggest he's even comparable to Wolverine in speed, much less his superior.

Oh, and are you going to bother responding to the actually substantial post I directed to you?

So your Saying Wolverine is going to beat a guy that can jump over buildings and simply stay out of reach, while blasting away with fire?

Yes, by using his superior fighting skill, speed, and healing factor (to soak up Goblin's fire).

Speed is useless in this fight since if Goblin is getting hurt he can jump away and heal. Goblin has a pretty fast healing factor, I don't know if Wolverine has too much of an advantage there. If Wolverine has no chance of touching him, how will he win? GG can simply keep jumping out of range.

Goblin has almost always brawled in his fights. He's rarely resorted to range battle. That's going to be a big problem going up against a guy who's faster than him, has a better HF, and is a more skilled fighterthan him.

Wolverine is not faster than him, and he has resorted to ranged battle. GG healing factor is near instant, skill is near useless vs someone who can destroy tanks with a single blast.

Sorry man. I've shown multiple scans that prove that Logan is faster than him. Goblin main style is brawling, and he has rarely resorted to using his fire and ranged battle. Brawling against a guy that is faster than him, has a better HF, and is more skilled than him is going to make Goblin lose the majority here. Osborn could scrape out a win or two with his fire (Logan has soaked up things just as hot, and even hotter than Goblin's fire), but Wolverine takes the majority.

Your scans proved Spiderman is fast enough to dodge all of logans attacks, the only reason Spiderman was hit was because he let wolverine tackle him, it even says in the scan. Wolverine then admits that Spiderman has enough strength to break his neck. None of the scans prove he is faster than GG.

#230 Edited by Wolverine08 (45039 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme

Don't be obtuse. There where multiple moments in that fight where Wolverine was keeping a dead even speed pace with Peter. Peter was even so astonished by his speed that he wondered if Logan was faster than him. That and tagging Speed Demon are better speed feats than Goblin has ever shown. In Scarlet Spider 18, Kaine (616 Spider-Man's physically superior clone) was even surprised by Wolverine's speed himself.. While Kaine was having some trouble dodging the multiple machine gun fire being placed at them from multiple shooters, Kaine noted that Wolverine "Hadn't even been touched, and that for a short guy weighing a thousand pounds, Wolverine moved like a ninja. A short midget ninja".

Wolverine has better speed feats, and has kept up with faster people than Goblin has. He's faster than him. Plain and simple.

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#231 Posted by Wolverine08 (45039 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme

Don't be obtuse. There where multiple moments in that fight where Wolverine was keeping a dead even speed pace with Peter. Peter was even so astonished by his speed that he wondered if Logan was faster than him. That and tagging Speed Demon are better speed feats than Goblin has ever shown. In Scarlet Spider 18, Kaine (616 Spider-Man's physically superior clone) was even surprised by Wolverine's speed himself.. While Kaine was having some trouble dodging the multiple machine gun fire being placed at them from multiple shooters, Kaine noted that Wolverine "Hadn't even been touched, and that for a short guy weighing a thousand pounds, Wolverine moved like a ninja. A short midget ninja".

Wolverine has better speed feats, and has kept up with faster people than Goblin has. He's faster than him. Plain and simple.

Online
#232 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme

Don't be obtuse. There where multiple moments in that fight where Wolverine was keeping a dead even speed pace with Peter. Peter was even so astonished by his speed that he wondered if Logan was faster than him. That and tagging Speed Demon are better speed feats than Goblin has ever shown. In Scarlet Spider 18, Kaine (616 Spider-Man's physically superior clone) was even surprised by Wolverine's speed himself.. While Kaine was having some trouble dodging the multiple machine gun fire being placed at them from multiple shooters, Kaine noted that Wolverine "Hadn't even been touched, and that for a short guy weighing a thousand pounds, Wolverine moved like a ninja. A short midget ninja".

Wolverine has better speed feats, and has kept up with faster people than Goblin has. He's faster than him. Plain and simple.

So you have proved that GG has the strength to break Wolverine's neck. The speed demon shows him missing a whole lot, then catching one. We also have no idea about how fast he was going. Notice though that Wolverine didn't land a hit after Spiderman let him tackle him.

#233 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 Since you made this thread, who would you say is faster? Green Goblin or Wolverine?

#234 Posted by Wolverine08 (45039 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme

Don't be obtuse. There where multiple moments in that fight where Wolverine was keeping a dead even speed pace with Peter. Peter was even so astonished by his speed that he wondered if Logan was faster than him. That and tagging Speed Demon are better speed feats than Goblin has ever shown. In Scarlet Spider 18, Kaine (616 Spider-Man's physically superior clone) was even surprised by Wolverine's speed himself.. While Kaine was having some trouble dodging the multiple machine gun fire being placed at them from multiple shooters, Kaine noted that Wolverine "Hadn't even been touched, and that for a short guy weighing a thousand pounds, Wolverine moved like a ninja. A short midget ninja".

Wolverine has better speed feats, and has kept up with faster people than Goblin has. He's faster than him. Plain and simple.

So you have proved that GG has the strength to break Wolverine's neck. The speed demon shows him missing a whole lot, then catching one. We also have no idea about how fast he was going. Notice though that Wolverine didn't land a hit after Spiderman let him tackle him.

*Sigh*. Goblin isn't going to break Wolverine neck if he can barely land a hit on him. Wolverine has the speed feats to prove that he's faster than Osborn. Whether you refuse to acknowledge it or not, Wolverine was able to slightly keep pace with Spider-Man and made him think he was faster than him. He tagged Speed Demon plain and simple. Those two feats are better than any speed feats Osborn has ever pulled pff. Like @esquire pointed out, Green Goblin meet a fast and skilled fighter (Ultimate Captain America), and became largely ineffective. Wolverine has a massive skill advantage coupled with his superior speed and healing factor do replicate the same effect. Goblin's biggest chance here is his fire (and Wolverine has soaked up things just as hot and even hotter than it). Goblin will scrape out a win or two, but Logan takes the majority.

Online
#235 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme

Don't be obtuse. There where multiple moments in that fight where Wolverine was keeping a dead even speed pace with Peter. Peter was even so astonished by his speed that he wondered if Logan was faster than him. That and tagging Speed Demon are better speed feats than Goblin has ever shown. In Scarlet Spider 18, Kaine (616 Spider-Man's physically superior clone) was even surprised by Wolverine's speed himself.. While Kaine was having some trouble dodging the multiple machine gun fire being placed at them from multiple shooters, Kaine noted that Wolverine "Hadn't even been touched, and that for a short guy weighing a thousand pounds, Wolverine moved like a ninja. A short midget ninja".

Wolverine has better speed feats, and has kept up with faster people than Goblin has. He's faster than him. Plain and simple.

So you have proved that GG has the strength to break Wolverine's neck. The speed demon shows him missing a whole lot, then catching one. We also have no idea about how fast he was going. Notice though that Wolverine didn't land a hit after Spiderman let him tackle him.

*Sigh*. Goblin isn't going to break Wolverine neck if he can barely land a hit on him. Wolverine has the speed feats to prove that he's faster than Osborn. Whether you refuse to acknowledge it or not, Wolverine was able to slightly keep pace with Spider-Man and made him think he was faster than him. He tagged Speed Demon plain and simple. Those two feats are better than any speed feats Osborn has ever pulled pff. Like @esquire pointed out, Green Goblin meet a fast and skilled fighter (Ultimate Captain America), and became largely ineffective. Wolverine has a massive skill advantage coupled with his superior speed and healing factor do replicate the same effect. Goblin's biggest chance here is his fire (and Wolverine has soaked up things just as hot and even hotter than it). Goblin will scrape out a win or two, but Logan takes the majority.

Keeping pace is a lot different than beating Spiderman. Grant it, it is not 616, but pretty much same powers, such as speed, strength, and spidey sense. GG has taking Spiderman out of the air, while he was swinging. He is easily as fast or faster than Wolverine. Should I bring up Wolverine's low showings? You seem to be doing that with GG.

#236 Posted by Wolverine08 (45039 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme

Don't be obtuse. There where multiple moments in that fight where Wolverine was keeping a dead even speed pace with Peter. Peter was even so astonished by his speed that he wondered if Logan was faster than him. That and tagging Speed Demon are better speed feats than Goblin has ever shown. In Scarlet Spider 18, Kaine (616 Spider-Man's physically superior clone) was even surprised by Wolverine's speed himself.. While Kaine was having some trouble dodging the multiple machine gun fire being placed at them from multiple shooters, Kaine noted that Wolverine "Hadn't even been touched, and that for a short guy weighing a thousand pounds, Wolverine moved like a ninja. A short midget ninja".

Wolverine has better speed feats, and has kept up with faster people than Goblin has. He's faster than him. Plain and simple.

So you have proved that GG has the strength to break Wolverine's neck. The speed demon shows him missing a whole lot, then catching one. We also have no idea about how fast he was going. Notice though that Wolverine didn't land a hit after Spiderman let him tackle him.

*Sigh*. Goblin isn't going to break Wolverine neck if he can barely land a hit on him. Wolverine has the speed feats to prove that he's faster than Osborn. Whether you refuse to acknowledge it or not, Wolverine was able to slightly keep pace with Spider-Man and made him think he was faster than him. He tagged Speed Demon plain and simple. Those two feats are better than any speed feats Osborn has ever pulled pff. Like @esquire pointed out, Green Goblin meet a fast and skilled fighter (Ultimate Captain America), and became largely ineffective. Wolverine has a massive skill advantage coupled with his superior speed and healing factor do replicate the same effect. Goblin's biggest chance here is his fire (and Wolverine has soaked up things just as hot and even hotter than it). Goblin will scrape out a win or two, but Logan takes the majority.

Keeping pace is a lot different than beating Spiderman. Grant it, it is not 616, but pretty much same powers, such as speed, strength, and spidey sense. GG has taking Spiderman out of the air, while he was swinging. He is easily as fast or faster than Wolverine.

Come on now. Don't be silly. Ultimate Spider-Man is physically inferior to 616-Spider-Man and has less impressive strength and speed feats. Wolverine has better speed feats than Goblin and is faster than him whether you like it or not.

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#237 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme

Don't be obtuse. There where multiple moments in that fight where Wolverine was keeping a dead even speed pace with Peter. Peter was even so astonished by his speed that he wondered if Logan was faster than him. That and tagging Speed Demon are better speed feats than Goblin has ever shown. In Scarlet Spider 18, Kaine (616 Spider-Man's physically superior clone) was even surprised by Wolverine's speed himself.. While Kaine was having some trouble dodging the multiple machine gun fire being placed at them from multiple shooters, Kaine noted that Wolverine "Hadn't even been touched, and that for a short guy weighing a thousand pounds, Wolverine moved like a ninja. A short midget ninja".

Wolverine has better speed feats, and has kept up with faster people than Goblin has. He's faster than him. Plain and simple.

So you have proved that GG has the strength to break Wolverine's neck. The speed demon shows him missing a whole lot, then catching one. We also have no idea about how fast he was going. Notice though that Wolverine didn't land a hit after Spiderman let him tackle him.

*Sigh*. Goblin isn't going to break Wolverine neck if he can barely land a hit on him. Wolverine has the speed feats to prove that he's faster than Osborn. Whether you refuse to acknowledge it or not, Wolverine was able to slightly keep pace with Spider-Man and made him think he was faster than him. He tagged Speed Demon plain and simple. Those two feats are better than any speed feats Osborn has ever pulled pff. Like @esquire pointed out, Green Goblin meet a fast and skilled fighter (Ultimate Captain America), and became largely ineffective. Wolverine has a massive skill advantage coupled with his superior speed and healing factor do replicate the same effect. Goblin's biggest chance here is his fire (and Wolverine has soaked up things just as hot and even hotter than it). Goblin will scrape out a win or two, but Logan takes the majority.

Keeping pace is a lot different than beating Spiderman. Grant it, it is not 616, but pretty much same powers, such as speed, strength, and spidey sense. GG has taking Spiderman out of the air, while he was swinging. He is easily as fast or faster than Wolverine.

Come on now. Don't be silly. Ultimate Spider-Man is physically inferior to 616-Spider-Man and has less impressive strength and speed feats. Wolverine has better speed feats than Goblin and is faster than him whether you like it or not.

Thats not arguing, that is asserting. Ultimate Spiderman has better speed feats than Wolverine, I am willing to say that, though @jashro44 made this thread, have him tell us who has more speed. Also @cadencev2 can you tell us who you think is faster? Or whether or not Wolverine is faster than GG or has better speed feats like @wolverine08 says?

#238 Posted by Wolverine08 (45039 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme

Don't be obtuse. There where multiple moments in that fight where Wolverine was keeping a dead even speed pace with Peter. Peter was even so astonished by his speed that he wondered if Logan was faster than him. That and tagging Speed Demon are better speed feats than Goblin has ever shown. In Scarlet Spider 18, Kaine (616 Spider-Man's physically superior clone) was even surprised by Wolverine's speed himself.. While Kaine was having some trouble dodging the multiple machine gun fire being placed at them from multiple shooters, Kaine noted that Wolverine "Hadn't even been touched, and that for a short guy weighing a thousand pounds, Wolverine moved like a ninja. A short midget ninja".

Wolverine has better speed feats, and has kept up with faster people than Goblin has. He's faster than him. Plain and simple.

So you have proved that GG has the strength to break Wolverine's neck. The speed demon shows him missing a whole lot, then catching one. We also have no idea about how fast he was going. Notice though that Wolverine didn't land a hit after Spiderman let him tackle him.

*Sigh*. Goblin isn't going to break Wolverine neck if he can barely land a hit on him. Wolverine has the speed feats to prove that he's faster than Osborn. Whether you refuse to acknowledge it or not, Wolverine was able to slightly keep pace with Spider-Man and made him think he was faster than him. He tagged Speed Demon plain and simple. Those two feats are better than any speed feats Osborn has ever pulled pff. Like @esquire pointed out, Green Goblin meet a fast and skilled fighter (Ultimate Captain America), and became largely ineffective. Wolverine has a massive skill advantage coupled with his superior speed and healing factor do replicate the same effect. Goblin's biggest chance here is his fire (and Wolverine has soaked up things just as hot and even hotter than it). Goblin will scrape out a win or two, but Logan takes the majority.

Keeping pace is a lot different than beating Spiderman. Grant it, it is not 616, but pretty much same powers, such as speed, strength, and spidey sense. GG has taking Spiderman out of the air, while he was swinging. He is easily as fast or faster than Wolverine.

Come on now. Don't be silly. Ultimate Spider-Man is physically inferior to 616-Spider-Man and has less impressive strength and speed feats. Wolverine has better speed feats than Goblin and is faster than him whether you like it or not.

Thats not arguing, that is asserting. Ultimate Spiderman has better speed feats than Wolverine, I am willing to say that, though @jashro44 made this thread, have him tell us who has more speed.

Whether you refuse to acknowledge it or not, Ultimate Spider-Man is physically inferior to 616 Spider-Man. Wolverine has kept pace slightly with 616 Spider-Man and even made him think that he was faster than him, dodged X-23 (who has superhuman speed) easily while holding back, disappeared in plain sight, surprised Kaine (616 Spider-Man's physically superior clone with his speed and reflexes), tagged Speed Demon, etc. Wolverine has shown the feats to prove that he's faster than Osborn. He IS faster.

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#239 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Said:

Whether you refuse to acknowledge it or not, Ultimate Spider-Man is physically inferior to 616 Spider-Man. Wolverine has kept pace slightly with 616 Spider-Man and even made him think that he was faster than him, dodged X-23 (who has superhuman speed) easily while holding back, disappeared in plain sight, surprised Kaine (616 Spider-Man's physically superior clone with his speed and reflexes), tagged Speed Demon, etc. Wolverine has shown the feats to prove that he's faster than Osborn. He IS faster.

I know the speed feats you listed, but keeping pace with Spiderman is not missing all of your strikes. Spiderman was also clearly holding back, he even said that he could have killed him by snapping his neck, but Wolverine said he didn't have the guts. X-23 is not as fast as Ultimate Spiderman.. Disappearing from plain sight is easy to do for enhanced people, regular people don't have training to keep up. He tagged a speed demon by predicting where he would pop out, he even says so in the scan. Those are not feats that show he is faster than GG that can take a moving spiderman that is traveling hundred or so miles an our, out of the air with his spidey senses still on.

#240 Posted by Wolverine08 (45039 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: Said:

Whether you refuse to acknowledge it or not, Ultimate Spider-Man is physically inferior to 616 Spider-Man. Wolverine has kept pace slightly with 616 Spider-Man and even made him think that he was faster than him, dodged X-23 (who has superhuman speed) easily while holding back, disappeared in plain sight, surprised Kaine (616 Spider-Man's physically superior clone with his speed and reflexes), tagged Speed Demon, etc. Wolverine has shown the feats to prove that he's faster than Osborn. He IS faster.

I know the speed feats you listed, but keeping pace with Spiderman is not missing all of your strikes. Spiderman was also clearly holding back, he even said that he could have killed him by snapping his neck, but Wolverine said he didn't have the guts. X-23 is not as fast as Ultimate Spiderman.. Disappearing from plain sight is easy to do for enhanced people, regular people don't have training to keep up. He tagged a speed demon by predicting where he would pop out, he even says so in the scan. Those are not feats that show he is faster than GG that can take a moving spiderman that is traveling hundred or so miles an our, out of the air with his spidey senses still on.

*Facepalm*. Wolverine slightly kept pace with Spider-Man throughout that fight (even though Pete did do better), and was even moving fast enough for Pete to think he could possibly faster than him. You left out surprising Kaine (Spider-Man's physically superior clone) with his speed and reflexes since you can't lowball that. Yes, Wolverine predicted where Speed Demon would be, but he also used speed/reflexes to tag him. You're doing a bad job of lowballing that incredible feat. You can keep twisting and turning around feats like you have been the whole time on this thread as multiple debaters have proved you wrong, but Wolverine's feats prove that he's faster than Goblin.

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#241 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

@wolverine08: Said:

Whether you refuse to acknowledge it or not, Ultimate Spider-Man is physically inferior to 616 Spider-Man. Wolverine has kept pace slightly with 616 Spider-Man and even made him think that he was faster than him, dodged X-23 (who has superhuman speed) easily while holding back, disappeared in plain sight, surprised Kaine (616 Spider-Man's physically superior clone with his speed and reflexes), tagged Speed Demon, etc. Wolverine has shown the feats to prove that he's faster than Osborn. He IS faster.

I know the speed feats you listed, but keeping pace with Spiderman is not missing all of your strikes. Spiderman was also clearly holding back, he even said that he could have killed him by snapping his neck, but Wolverine said he didn't have the guts. X-23 is not as fast as Ultimate Spiderman.. Disappearing from plain sight is easy to do for enhanced people, regular people don't have training to keep up. He tagged a speed demon by predicting where he would pop out, he even says so in the scan. Those are not feats that show he is faster than GG that can take a moving spiderman that is traveling hundred or so miles an our, out of the air with his spidey senses still on.

*Facepalm*. Wolverine slightly kept pace with Spider-Man throughout that fight (even though Pete did do better), and was even moving fast enough for Pete to think he could possibly faster than him. You left out surprising Kaine (Spider-Man's physically superior clone) with his speed and reflexes since you can't lowball that. Yes, Wolverine predicted where Speed Demon would be, but he also used speed/reflexes to tag him. You're doing a bad job of lowballing that incredible feat. You can keep twisting and turning around feats like you have been the whole time on this thread as multiple debaters have proved you wrong, but Wolverine's feats prove that he's faster than Goblin.

Who has proven me wrong? You seem to think like I am the only one saying GG. You are also ignoring the feats @cadencev2 posted in the earlier pages. I would suggest looking at those. I am not lowballing feats either, I simply said what was said in the comics.

#242 Posted by Wolverine08 (45039 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@wolverine08: Said:

Whether you refuse to acknowledge it or not, Ultimate Spider-Man is physically inferior to 616 Spider-Man. Wolverine has kept pace slightly with 616 Spider-Man and even made him think that he was faster than him, dodged X-23 (who has superhuman speed) easily while holding back, disappeared in plain sight, surprised Kaine (616 Spider-Man's physically superior clone with his speed and reflexes), tagged Speed Demon, etc. Wolverine has shown the feats to prove that he's faster than Osborn. He IS faster.

I know the speed feats you listed, but keeping pace with Spiderman is not missing all of your strikes. Spiderman was also clearly holding back, he even said that he could have killed him by snapping his neck, but Wolverine said he didn't have the guts. X-23 is not as fast as Ultimate Spiderman.. Disappearing from plain sight is easy to do for enhanced people, regular people don't have training to keep up. He tagged a speed demon by predicting where he would pop out, he even says so in the scan. Those are not feats that show he is faster than GG that can take a moving spiderman that is traveling hundred or so miles an our, out of the air with his spidey senses still on.

*Facepalm*. Wolverine slightly kept pace with Spider-Man throughout that fight (even though Pete did do better), and was even moving fast enough for Pete to think he could possibly faster than him. You left out surprising Kaine (Spider-Man's physically superior clone) with his speed and reflexes since you can't lowball that. Yes, Wolverine predicted where Speed Demon would be, but he also used speed/reflexes to tag him. You're doing a bad job of lowballing that incredible feat. You can keep twisting and turning around feats like you have been the whole time on this thread as multiple debaters have proved you wrong, but Wolverine's feats prove that he's faster than Goblin.

Who has proven me wrong? You seem to think like I am the only one saying GG. You are also ignoring the feats @cadencev2 posted in the earlier pages. I would suggest looking at those. I am not lowballing feats either, I simply said what was said in the comics.

If we want to go by what's said in the comics, Wolverine was moving fast enough to make Spider-Man think that he was faster than him. He moving so fast that he astonished Kaine (Spider-Man's physically superior clone) with his speed and reflexes. He predicted where Speed Demon was, but he also used his speed/reflexes to tag him. Pretty incredible feat really. @super_soldierxii, @esquire, and others have proven you wrong and have you running around in circles with poor logic. Like I said, Wolverine's feast prove that he's faster than Goblin. He'll use that speed edge along with his ludicrously large advantage in fighting skill and superior healing factor to take the majority over Osborn.

Online
#243 Posted by jashro44 (23686 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08: @cable_extreme: Its not up to me to determine who has more speed. I am the OP so I remain neutral in the actual debate. My only comments have really been about wolverine vs sabretooth.

@esquire Thank you for explaining why sabretooth drops wolverine. Awesome post!

#244 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@wolverine08: @cable_extreme: Its not up to me to determine who has more speed. I am the OP so I remain neutral in the actual debate. My only comments have really been about wolverine vs sabretooth.

@esquire Thank you for explaining why sabretooth drops wolverine. Awesome post!

Well, how about informing us whether or not Ultimate spiderman is drastically inferior to 616? You won't be picking a side, only informing us more about the characters in question. Like is 616 speed wise a lot faster than Ultimate like @wolverine08 is claiming. Reason I am asking you is you seem to be more knowledgeable about Spiderman than most. And I think it will help the debate more if we get a better understanding of the speed comparison between Amazing Spiderman, and Ultimate.

#245 Posted by jashro44 (23686 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@wolverine08: @cable_extreme: Its not up to me to determine who has more speed. I am the OP so I remain neutral in the actual debate. My only comments have really been about wolverine vs sabretooth.

@esquire Thank you for explaining why sabretooth drops wolverine. Awesome post!

Well, how about informing us whether or not Ultimate spiderman is drastically inferior to 616? You won't be picking a side, only informing us more about the characters in question. Like is 616 speed wise a lot faster than Ultimate like @wolverine08 is claiming. Reason I am asking you is you seem to be more knowledgeable about Spiderman than most. And I think it will help the debate more if we get a better understanding of the speed comparison between Amazing Spiderman, and Ultimate.

IMO 616 is faster then ultimate Peter by a decent amount. There close but I think 616 has noticeably better physicals.

#246 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme said:

@wolverine08 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@wolverine08: Said:

Whether you refuse to acknowledge it or not, Ultimate Spider-Man is physically inferior to 616 Spider-Man. Wolverine has kept pace slightly with 616 Spider-Man and even made him think that he was faster than him, dodged X-23 (who has superhuman speed) easily while holding back, disappeared in plain sight, surprised Kaine (616 Spider-Man's physically superior clone with his speed and reflexes), tagged Speed Demon, etc. Wolverine has shown the feats to prove that he's faster than Osborn. He IS faster.

I know the speed feats you listed, but keeping pace with Spiderman is not missing all of your strikes. Spiderman was also clearly holding back, he even said that he could have killed him by snapping his neck, but Wolverine said he didn't have the guts. X-23 is not as fast as Ultimate Spiderman.. Disappearing from plain sight is easy to do for enhanced people, regular people don't have training to keep up. He tagged a speed demon by predicting where he would pop out, he even says so in the scan. Those are not feats that show he is faster than GG that can take a moving spiderman that is traveling hundred or so miles an our, out of the air with his spidey senses still on.

*Facepalm*. Wolverine slightly kept pace with Spider-Man throughout that fight (even though Pete did do better), and was even moving fast enough for Pete to think he could possibly faster than him. You left out surprising Kaine (Spider-Man's physically superior clone) with his speed and reflexes since you can't lowball that. Yes, Wolverine predicted where Speed Demon would be, but he also used speed/reflexes to tag him. You're doing a bad job of lowballing that incredible feat. You can keep twisting and turning around feats like you have been the whole time on this thread as multiple debaters have proved you wrong, but Wolverine's feats prove that he's faster than Goblin.

Who has proven me wrong? You seem to think like I am the only one saying GG. You are also ignoring the feats @cadencev2 posted in the earlier pages. I would suggest looking at those. I am not lowballing feats either, I simply said what was said in the comics.

If we want to go by what's said in the comics, Wolverine was moving fast enough to make Spider-Man think that he was faster than him. He moving so fast that he astonished Kaine (Spider-Man's physically superior clone) with his speed and reflexes. He predicted where Speed Demon was, but he also used his speed/reflexes to tag him. Pretty incredible feat really. @super_soldierxii, @esquire, and others have proven you wrong and have you running around in circles with poor logic. Like I said, Wolverine's feast prove that he's faster than Goblin. He'll use that speed edge along with his ludicrously large advantage in fighting skill and superior healing factor to take the majority over Osborn.

How many times did Wolverine hit Spiderman after Spiderman let him tackle him? None. Also moving so fast you astonish someone doesn't make you faster than them, just surprised. You have also proven that GG can break Wolverine's neck with the scan you have shown. Which makes it all more reasonable that GG wins. Wolverine predicted where the speed demon was and use reflexes, but that doesn't mean he is faster than the speed demon, it means he can predict where he was, it only proves that his brain is good at predicting. What have they proven me wrong about? And Telling me I have poor logic makes you look desperate. Lets both refrain from insults unless you want this thread locked.

#247 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@cable_extreme said:

@jashro44 said:

@wolverine08: @cable_extreme: Its not up to me to determine who has more speed. I am the OP so I remain neutral in the actual debate. My only comments have really been about wolverine vs sabretooth.

@esquire Thank you for explaining why sabretooth drops wolverine. Awesome post!

Well, how about informing us whether or not Ultimate spiderman is drastically inferior to 616? You won't be picking a side, only informing us more about the characters in question. Like is 616 speed wise a lot faster than Ultimate like @wolverine08 is claiming. Reason I am asking you is you seem to be more knowledgeable about Spiderman than most. And I think it will help the debate more if we get a better understanding of the speed comparison between Amazing Spiderman, and Ultimate.

IMO 616 is faster then ultimate Peter by a decent amount. There close but I think 616 has noticeably better physicals.

Thank you.

#248 Posted by jashro44 (23686 posts) - - Show Bio
#249 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9690 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08:

Here I will provide some scans that @cadencev2 posted on an earlier page. Look at this and then tell me with a straight face that Wolverine would win. It is clear that is not the case thanks to the great work of Cadencev2. (What follows is not my work)

#63 Edited by CadenceV2 (15386 posts) - 4 days, 46 minutes ago - Show Bio

@wolverine08: @risingbean: @super_soldierxii: @monsterstomp @mitran: Awesome, Ultimate Readers. Just for being Ultimate Comic Readers, you get a GOLD STAR!

Now that Im back and ready. Here is my problem with Wolverine Claws working on GG.

Durability

Norman's biggest asset.

Scan 1: Assault Rifle fire.

Scan 2: Attack Choppers with anti Vehicle Machine Guns.

Scan 3: GG with a special collar that lobotomizes any person trying to use their powers. Added to this he was being hit with Tranqs and ends with a Giant Man Pimp Hand!

Scan 4: GG tanks with ease Iron Man Repulsar Blast.

Scan 5-7: GG gets up after a few minuets from a all out Human Torch attack.

Osborn has easily shrugged off attacks that have slowed Wolverine down. Even withstanding all out Human Torch attacks twice! His Skin is unbelievable tough and his Healing is quick.

Blunt force is a no go here.

GG free falls from a Sky Scraper. Look at the damage he does here when he hits. He simply bounces off and turns back into Norman to keep off SHIELD's radar.

So we can count that out. That leaves Claws only. Well IMO how are Claws > to Hulk Buster weapons?

GG gets hit by SHIELDs Hulk Buster unit repeatedly and Anti Tank Missiles. All to no affect.

This is way more devastating than Adamantium Claws and GG withstands it with ease!

Lets look at how skill and such factor in. Yes Wolverine is more skill, however that skill is tedious at best when he goes Berserk with frustration. He will become frustrated easy!

Goblin is spectacular in this battle. Not only he manages Ultimate Cap the whole time, but the amount of damage soak to be the last main guy standing says alot. Goblin is damn near impossible to put down! Yet I am believe Wolverine > to Ultimates! BS!

Goblin has ways of putting Wolverine down IMO.

His main power is his stats and fire projection.

Scan 1: GG Blows apart tanks.

Scan 2: GG Blows away Security Blast Doors from a SHIELD Meta Human Prison.

Scan 3-4: GG Vaporizes more SHIELD.

Scan 5: We find out GG fire is plasma.

His fire projection is so powerful, he even destroyed a portion of the Ultimates Base when he raged out.

This all shows how often and powerful his fire Projection is. He can blow apart Tanks, Re Enforced Steel Doors, and a 20 story Building to bits! Wolverine is not tanking this like Ultimate Cap who blocked the fire with his near indestructible Shield. Wolverine is not easily dodging it either like the Super Speed Spider Man with Spider Sense.

Wolverine in fact likes to tank hits, this is a bad day to go that rout! Also lets say Wolverine decides to close in. So what?

GG can also set himself on Fire. Either way at Range or H2H Logan is getting burned.

GG also has shown the speed to tag Spider Man often in any fight. Wolverine is not winning the Majority IMO due to the Power Set and Durability of GG. To say other wise is saying Wolverine > to the Ultimates or Wolverine > Spider Man and Human Torch. Not seeing it.

Strength and Speed

We know GG is insane Strong.

Scan 1-2: GG sees Harry on TV calling him out. Rages out and KOs Spider Man in one blow!

Scan 3: Easily catches and holds the Spider Man Strong Tentacles of Doc Ock.

Scan 4-5: Smashes through Doc Ock's Tentacles that easily overpower Peter.

Scan 6-8: Beats Hob Goblin to Death with a few blows!

Scan 9: Overpowers Peter with ease.

Scan 10: Craters the earth with a haymaker.

The GG has beaten Hob Goblin to Death with a few blows, over power Doc Ock twice, and KOed Spider Man with a single blow!

GG uses fire with his fist in many showings to add to this.Add in range...

.

Scan 1: GG Blows apart tanks.

Scan 2: GG Blows away Security Blast Doors from a SHIELD Meta Human Prison.

Scan 3-4: GG Vaporizes more Hulk Buster armoured SHIELD with a blast.

Scan 5-6: GG again blows apart his Meta Human prison.

Scan 7: GG blows away Doc Ock's Tentacles.

Scan 8-9: GG Attacks Copters with Plasma Shields for distractions.

Scan 10: Burns school down attacking Spidey.

Scan 11: We find out GG fire is plasma.

His fire projection is so powerful, he even destroyed a portion of the Ultimates Base when he raged out.

#250 Posted by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a great match up. Logan 6/10