#101 Edited by RisingBean (3806 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: More a Hooah guy myself. Course, I dropped that term when I got stationed at Fort Living Room.

@veshark: This is why we can't have nice things. Fine. In his defense, GG was weakened. Still does not change the fact Wolverine wins, picker of nits.

#102 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:

@risingbean

Not to be nit-picky (and that ship has saaailed...), but in Osborn's defense, he was already shot with Iron Man's gene gun thing when Cap's shield cut him. So he was in a weakened state and shifting between human and goblin at that point.

Nice Save!

#103 Posted by Wolverine08 (40565 posts) - - Show Bio
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#104 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean I am the lone voice of truth in an ocean of out-of-context feats! The Picker of Nits shall not be denied!

@cadencev2 Just doing my job, citizen!

*Drives off in the Sharkmobile*

#105 Posted by RisingBean (3806 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Out of context?

1. I forgot about the sequence. It's been awhile since I have read it.

2. I was not trying to mislead.

3. Cap was pummeling him the whole fight so meh I say.

But thanks for the call. Transparent is best.

Also, Wolverine still wins.

#106 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Out of context?

1. I forgot about the sequence. It's been awhile since I have read it.

2. I was not trying to mislead.

3. Cap was pummeling him the whole fight so meh I say.

But thanks for the call. Transparent is best.

Also, Wolverine still wins.

Relax, I'm pulling your leg.

'Out-of-context' wasn't in reference to you specifically, it was just part of the Picker of Nits joke ;)

Though I wouldn't say Cap was pummeling him. I mean he got a few good shots in and dodged most of GG's blows, but didn't really have any lasting effect on Osborn.

#107 Posted by WarBlade539 (4564 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Alex Mercer vs Ultimate Green Goblin

Raiden vs DC/Wildstorm powerhouses (Not Superman level though)

Alex Mercer vs Ult. Hulk

#108 Posted by RisingBean (3806 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: It was late, and while I know you mean no malice, I was defending my good name. Because lets face it, Veshark, we have both seen posters bring in some off the wall scans and explain them totally dead wrong. And they did this knowing so just to "win" a debate.

Cap's blows were not leaving GG a battered heap, but every panel they are in shows Cap leaping aside from a blow, nailing him in the kisser with a foot or a shield or whatnot except for one scan of him using the shield to avoid fire. Some of the blast got around the edge of the shield and hurt him. This was all the offense that worked for GG. So Cap was pummeling him.

He woulda won by decision in a sporting environment. :P

@joygirl Your post snuck in. My response. Prove it sistah!

#109 Posted by Joygirl (19278 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: Don't feel like it. ^-^ Don't care enough about either.

#110 Posted by RisingBean (3806 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl: Wow. You are no fun at all. And this after I watched movies for research purposes just to post in a battle thread of yours. Also, both characters are awesome! GG smashes the Jokah!

Come at me.

#111 Posted by Joygirl (19278 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: *snicker* Well last I checked UGG is no joke, he is a huge powerful fire-spewing beast. And since most folks agree that Peter > Wolvie, and UGG > Peter, it makes sense that UGG can manage to bring Logan down, likely by using his fire. Ult. Cap is a bad example since Ult. Cap >>>>>>>> 616 Cap.

#112 Posted by RisingBean (3806 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl: The thing though is that 616 Pete is vastly superior to Ultimate Pete. You 're comparing apples to oranges. Also outside of webbing for incapacitation, Pete's arsenal is not one that works in his favor against Wolverine. As per Goblin, Logan should be able to soak anything short of his highest end feats. Blunt damage is his bread and butter. Burn damage is crummy, but manageable. Also if he fights with a modicum of skill, he simply outclasses Goblin. He will hit, Goblin will bleed and unless plot comes into play, more often then not, Goblin will die. Sure, he evolves, but he isn't coming back from a missing skull.

Also if Ult Cap is a bad example, it is because of the difference in damage type blunt vs bludgeoning. But I work with what I got.

#113 Posted by Hyperlight (5687 posts) - - Show Bio

leaning towards wolverine if its to the death... goblin doesnt have the tools to put wolverine down beyond knockout...

#114 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: It was late, and while I know you mean no malice, I was defending my good name. Because lets face it, Veshark, we have both seen posters bring in some off the wall scans and explain them totally dead wrong. And they did this knowing so just to "win" a debate.

Cap's blows were not leaving GG a battered heap, but every panel they are in shows Cap leaping aside from a blow, nailing him in the kisser with a foot or a shield or whatnot except for one scan of him using the shield to avoid fire. Some of the blast got around the edge of the shield and hurt him. This was all the offense that worked for GG. So Cap was pummeling him.

He woulda won by decision in a sporting environment. :P

C'est la vie, there'll always be such individuals on the battles boards. Long as you know I meant it in jest, and not directly at you, either.

And yeah, I see what you're getting at. 'Pummel' tends to conjure mental images of Superman v. Darkseid with the 'world of cardboard speech' for me, but that's a fair point.

#115 Posted by jashro44 (20501 posts) - - Show Bio

leaning towards wolverine if its to the death... goblin doesnt have the tools to put wolverine down beyond knockout...

Win can be by incapacitation or KO as well as death.

#116 Edited by RisingBean (3806 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Nah, all's good. Even if you were truly calling me out, all would be. If I'm wrong, I need to know it. That way I can fix it.

As per the pummeling, I see it defined as a lopsided battle myself. Generally more curbstompy then Cap and Goblin, but it fits in that they were working at Cap's tempo the entire time.

Also. Wolverine still wins.

#117 Posted by GraniteSoldier (7404 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean:

Haha Fort Living Room, I love it.

Anyway this is an insanely good matchup. After looking carefully at Ult. GG the only thing I can think of for this fight is one thing: war of attrition. After all the powers, speed, strength, fire, claws, and healing is who can take more for longer. Realistically, if this fight occurred, I can see it happening for days. Both have incredible healing, so I don't see either being put down by sheer force. It's who will tire quicker. Sure they both heal from their wounds, but they still feel the pain. It's who will the pain get to first.

In both respects, I have to say Goblin will wear down before Wolverine. Wolverine's physical endurance, the ability to fight hard and fight long, is arguably one of the highest in Marvel. He is human, and will tire, but it takes a long, long time. His adamantium skeleton also helps soak so much of the incoming damage, especially blunt force damage. I think Goblin will tire and exhaust from his repetitively healed wounds before Wolverine.

I am going to have to lean Wolverine in this one. Goblin gets good shots, and make Wolverine earn this win, but Wolverine outlasts him in the end.

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#118 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#119 Posted by RisingBean (3806 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier: @cadencev2: Damnit. Now I want to see this fight. It's too bad 1610 Wolverine is dead, and I am loathe to actually cross over the U's anymore then has been done.

Granite, nice assessment. And yeah, Fort Living Room is the best place ever. the PT is optional.

Cadence, Wolverine still wins! :)

#120 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#121 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (5059 posts) - - Show Bio

Goblin.

#122 Posted by RisingBean (3806 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: That's not too fair. Goblin and Kleiser are my favorite Ultimate villains.

Also everybody else pretty much agree's. Except Joy, and she is being contrary.

#123 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: There is other that do not agree. Like the statement above yours :P

#124 Posted by RisingBean (3806 posts) - - Show Bio
#125 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: Re check the thread.

  1. cable_extreme:
  2. jashro44:
  3. monsterstomp:
  4. homicidalmaniac:
  5. joygirl:
  6. cara_hunter:
  7. veshark:
  8. the_titan_lord:

All said Green Goblin wins. :) What now?

#126 Edited by jashro44 (20501 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: Re check the thread.

  1. cable_extreme:
  2. jashro44:
  3. monsterstomp:
  4. homicidalmaniac:
  5. joygirl:
  6. cara_hunter:
  7. veshark:
  8. the_titan_lord:

All said Green Goblin wins. :) What now?

When did I say Green goblin wins? I think I said he could win with his fire blasts but wolverine could also take him as well? I think it could go either way.

#127 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9036 posts) - - Show Bio

@risingbean: Re check the thread.

  1. cable_extreme:
  2. jashro44:
  3. monsterstomp:
  4. homicidalmaniac:
  5. joygirl:
  6. cara_hunter:
  7. veshark:
  8. the_titan_lord:

All said Green Goblin wins. :) What now?

This green goblin wins. If Sabertooth is a challenge for Wolverine, this is a whole new beast. Assuming what I was told about him is correct :D

#128 Posted by Wolverine08 (40565 posts) - - Show Bio

Wolverine still takes the majority in this fight.

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#129 Posted by tigerxbunny (5 posts) - - Show Bio

Wolverine tanking Hulk hits are PIS. He has much more consistently been KO'd by nouns much weaker than the Hulk. And considering all the times 616 Spider-man KO'd, BFR, and incapacitated Wolvering, Ultimate Green Goblin should be able to do the same easily.

#130 Posted by Wolverine08 (40565 posts) - - Show Bio

@tigerxbunny: Wolverine has consistently taken hits from extremely powerful people. It's not PIS.......

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#131 Posted by GraniteSoldier (7404 posts) - - Show Bio

@tigerxbunny:

Assume his Hulk hits are PIS (which they aren't) he's taken hits from Juggernaut, who still hits harder than Goblin.

Like I said above, this is a trench warfare style attrition battle. Who can put more blood on the ground and keep fighting. And I think Wolverine wins in that department. Does he stomp? Absolutely not. But at the end of the week (because this fight would probably last about that long) Logan stands tall. His endurance and damage soak is better, which I believe is the true x-factor in this fight.

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#132 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9036 posts) - - Show Bio

@tigerxbunny:

Assume his Hulk hits are PIS (which they aren't) he's taken hits from Juggernaut, who still hits harder than Goblin.

Like I said above, this is a trench warfare style attrition battle. Who can put more blood on the ground and keep fighting. And I think Wolverine wins in that department. Does he stomp? Absolutely not. But at the end of the week (because this fight would probably last about that long) Logan stands tall. His endurance and damage soak is better, which I believe is the true x-factor in this fight.

Yet he gets defeated by Sabertooth...... Doesn't quite add up ):

#133 Posted by Wolverine08 (40565 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: *Sigh* If we used low end feats to judge every character, they'd lose every battle they are in. Your logic doesn't add up.

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#134 Edited by jashro44 (20501 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: yet he has stomped sabretooth multiple times in the last 2 years...

#135 Posted by GraniteSoldier (7404 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier said:

@tigerxbunny:

Assume his Hulk hits are PIS (which they aren't) he's taken hits from Juggernaut, who still hits harder than Goblin.

Like I said above, this is a trench warfare style attrition battle. Who can put more blood on the ground and keep fighting. And I think Wolverine wins in that department. Does he stomp? Absolutely not. But at the end of the week (because this fight would probably last about that long) Logan stands tall. His endurance and damage soak is better, which I believe is the true x-factor in this fight.

Yet he gets defeated by Sabertooth...... Doesn't quite add up ):

If I'm remembering correctly the last few years he's pretty much beasted Sabretooth in their encounters, no? I know they were originally pretty evenly matched.

This also comes back to the debate of Wolverine being wildly inconsistently written. He has a lot of high showings in much of his solo work, followed by lower showings in some of his team titles (a handful of moments in Avengers comes to mind). Overall though, he has shown consistent damage soak to high end characters. But, to your point, he has equally as many low showings. If you average them out, yes, Goblin is going to do damage. I never said he wouldn't. Using your Sabretooth example, they were often attrition fights. Long, drag out battles where it was just as much about how much you can take as you can dish out. Wolverine was able to take more than Sabretooth (but again if I remember right the last few years he's beasted him).

Goblin will absolutely make Logan work for this, but Logan can take more and dish out just as much.

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#136 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9036 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: *Sigh* If we used low end feats to judge every character, they'd lose every battle they are in. Your logic doesn't add up.

Well, I have a problem with people using high comics and saying that is how it is. Wolverine has been in well over 1000 comics, how many of those is he taking hits from the hulk?

@jashro44 said:

@cable_extreme: yet he has stomped sabretooth multiple times in the last 2 years...

Still has lost in the past. This Green Goblin is too fast, and too versatile. He outclasses Wolverine in every factor, except maybe durability. Goblin takes the majority.

#137 Posted by Wolverine08 (40565 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Your idea of using low end feats to judge characters doesn't make anymore sense then people using only high end feats........ Also, this Green Goblin isn't faster than Wolverine.

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#138 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9036 posts) - - Show Bio

@granitesoldier said:

@cable_extreme said:

@granitesoldier said:

@tigerxbunny:

Assume his Hulk hits are PIS (which they aren't) he's taken hits from Juggernaut, who still hits harder than Goblin.

Like I said above, this is a trench warfare style attrition battle. Who can put more blood on the ground and keep fighting. And I think Wolverine wins in that department. Does he stomp? Absolutely not. But at the end of the week (because this fight would probably last about that long) Logan stands tall. His endurance and damage soak is better, which I believe is the true x-factor in this fight.

Yet he gets defeated by Sabertooth...... Doesn't quite add up ):

If I'm remembering correctly the last few years he's pretty much beasted Sabretooth in their encounters, no? I know they were originally pretty evenly matched.

This also comes back to the debate of Wolverine being wildly inconsistently written. He has a lot of high showings in much of his solo work, followed by lower showings in some of his team titles (a handful of moments in Avengers comes to mind). Overall though, he has shown consistent damage soak to high end characters. But, to your point, he has equally as many low showings. If you average them out, yes, Goblin is going to do damage. I never said he wouldn't. Using your Sabretooth example, they were often attrition fights. Long, drag out battles where it was just as much about how much you can take as you can dish out. Wolverine was able to take more than Sabretooth (but again if I remember right the last few years he's beasted him).

Goblin will absolutely make Logan work for this, but Logan can take more and dish out just as much.

Yes, you understand my point now. People have a hard time understanding that, you got it on the first post lol. Fair review.

#139 Posted by jashro44 (20501 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: I'm fine with you think Norman takes the majority as he does have a chance but using sabretooth isn't the best way to gauge. Creed is an entirely different opponent.

#140 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9036 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@cable_extreme: I'm fine with you think Norman takes the majority as he does have a chance but using sabretooth isn't the best way to gauge. Creed is an entirely different opponent.

Read what Granite soldier put, he understood what I was trying to say.

#141 Edited by Wolverine08 (40565 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman beats Bane, but struggles against Joker (who is VASTLY less skilled and stronger than Bane). I guess Batman shouldn't be able to beat anyone better than Joker..............

Hooray for ABC logic!

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#142 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9036 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman beats Bane, but struggles against Joker (who is VASTLY less skilled and stronger than Bane). I guess Batman shouldn't be able to beat anyone better than Joker..............

The Joker is here due to his smartness. Always being ahead of Batman and leading him into traps. The majority of time, Batman cannot simply attack him due to many factors. Bane has defeated Batman as well. But that is not my argument. My argument would be the comparison that if the joker can punch batman and hurt him, Bane definitely can. I am using your two examples as a hypothetical comparison. Not actually saying Joker hurts batman ect...

#143 Edited by Wolverine08 (40565 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: I'm sorry man, but your logic that if Wolverine loses to Sabretooth (which has been usually a younger Wolverine, and current Wolverine has curbstomped Sabretooth five times in 2 years), means he loses to Goblin without considering the combatants abilities, the most important factor in the battle, etc makes absolutely no sense no matter which way you cut it.

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#144 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9036 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: I'm sorry man, but your logic that if Wolverine loses to Sabretooth (which has been usually a younger Wolverine, and current Wolverine has curbstomped Sabretooth five times in 2 years), means he loses to Goblin without considering the combatants abilities, the most important factor in the battle, etc makes absolutely no sense no matter which way you cut it.

No I am contesting the idea that Goblin doesn't have the strength to hurt Wolverine. ( I laughed at the end since you said "cut it" and we are talking about wolverine) lol

#145 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman beats Bane, but struggles against Joker (who is VASTLY less skilled and stronger than Bane). I guess Batman shouldn't be able to beat anyone better than Joker..............

Batman should not beat half the foes he has when he struggles with Joker, Harley, Penguin, Mr. Freeze, Scarecrow, Riddler, Two Face, do I really need to go on!?

Yet at other times he has bested Karate Kid, Deathstroke, and even made Specter cry with a kick!

It retarded to use those feats. They are clearly PIS compared to his "AVERAGE" of Low and High Showings.

Same with Wolverine. He has a Average. In the New Avenger, Uncanny X-Men (80s to mid 90s), Incredible Hulk, and Ghost Rider Comics that I own he was nowhere the beast everyone says he is. In the vast writings of Ennis, which are canon, he has less than stellar showings.

I have 100s of showings that are nowhere near what everyone says his highs are. This includes all the battles he has with Hulk where he may not be KOed but gets trashed.

I think people overate him. at least Goblin was impressive in all 5 arcs he had been in.

#146 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9036 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@wolverine08 said:

Batman beats Bane, but struggles against Joker (who is VASTLY less skilled and stronger than Bane). I guess Batman shouldn't be able to beat anyone better than Joker..............

Batman should not beat half the foes he has when he struggles with Joker, Harley, Penguin, Mr. Freeze, Scarecrow, Riddler, Two Face, do I really need to go on!?

Yet at other times he has bested Karate Kid, Deathstroke, and even made Specter cry with a kick!

It retarded to use those feats. They are clearly PIS compared to his "AVERAGE" of Low and High Showings.

Same with Wolverine. He has a Average. In the New Avenger, Uncanny X-Men (80s to mid 90s), Incredible Hulk, and Ghost Rider Comics that I own he was nowhere the beast everyone says he is. In the vast writings of Ennis, which are canon, he has less than stellar showings.

I have 100s of showings that are nowhere near what everyone says his highs are. This includes all the battles he has with Hulk where he may not be KOed but gets trashed.

I think people overate him. at least Goblin was impressive in all 5 arcs he had been in.

Yes, you are correct, any time he is team based either X-men, or Avengers ect.. he has a consistency. But then as soon as his solo work starts, he is taking blows from WWH. This is not consistency, he is constantly in a state of flux depending on the writer. We need to look at his high solo work showings and his team based more consistent showings and equalize them..

#147 Posted by Wolverine08 (40565 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I have "100s" of showings that are just as impressive as everyone claims. And why are you talking about 80s Wolverine. His healing factor and durability aren't the same as it is now. He's become a "beast".

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#148 Posted by Wolverine08 (40565 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Wolverine tanked 7 hits from the WWH in a team book. Plus, his first appearance was him fighting the Hulk.

I don't know why you'd be so surprised at him tanking his blows considering that.

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#149 Edited by Cable_Extreme (9036 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Wolverine tanked 7 hits from the WWH in a team book. Plus, his first appearance was him fighting the Hulk.

I don't know why you'd be so surprised at him tanking his blows considering that.

WWH is a lot different than the original hulk Wolverine fought in his first appearance.

#150 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9036 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I have "100s" of showings that are just as impressive as everyone claims. And why are you talking about 80s Wolverine. His healing factor and durability aren't the same as it is now. He's become a "beast".

But still not good enough to win this match, due to the extreme speed and strength advantages, as well as the versatility.