@dondave Thanks.
@god_spawn: Which issue was that BTW?
I have alot of Incredible Hulk, but do not remember this scene.
Don't tell him! He just wants to get his hands on an issue where Hulk KO's Wolverine (however briefly) and add it to his horde of scans!! It will come back to haunt you ... oh yes, it will ....
Tis only a flashback issue anyway :P.
Flash Back of their first encounter.
This is from Incredible Hulk 397 or 398 I believe. It's in the four part arc leading up to #400 at any rate. It's professor Hulk. He just needed a new pair of pants and he was ready to fight some more. As for this thread? Goblin has not shown healing on the same level. He isn't even in the same ballpark.
Hell he isn't on the same continent.
@cable_extreme: No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill.
Wolverine doesn't have to be faster than GG in order to dodge him. That's the part you seem to be having serious trouble grasping.
If I were you I'd find a different angle to approach this on or just abandon this thread entirely. You aren't winning over anyone with your ABC logic and you're honestly just coming across as being belligerently ignorant.
You are not understanding my point. My point is that GG is fast enough to tag Spiderman, yet a slower opponent such as Ult CA evades him. I am not arguing Captain America's ability to tag GG. It is a low showing due to the fact that a slower opponent shouldn't be able to dodge everything a faster opponent can deal. You used ABC logic as well. But GG has so little to go on compared to Wolverine, that sometimes it is necessary. This fight alone is not enough to say Wolverine is the victor. A lot of other factors are being ignored, such as Captain America's shield deflecting any blast. When we look at the fight between Wolverine and GG, we see they both have ways to end the fight. GG has not used his long ranged attacks too often, he really never had a situation that really called for it. Now if Wolverine starts cutting him up, all it takes is a 2 year old to understand to back the !@#$ up and get out of there. Which is exactly what I think he will do. Now Wolverine will get some wins, but I think GG is so versatile he should come out on top.
(PS call me whatever you want, I will not reply negatively, that is not how I roll.)
Some people have trouble understanding complexity, however, I pointed out Spiderman did not have Spidey sense, meaning he was at a great disadvantage. Which also means he was not at his full fighting capacity. Nor does that scan prove Wolverine is as fast as Ult Spiderman.
Holy crap. It's official. You have not even read the material you so blithely comment on and really don't know what you're talking about ... and yet still deem it OK to downplay solid feats. That was Kaine, y'know, Scarlet Spider, not Spider-Man, so of course he doesn't have the spider-sense. Kaine is also both faster and stronger than Spider-Man though and under influence of "The Other". Just an FYI. So many feel his greater speed helps abridge the lack of spider-sense in comparison to Parker (or SpOck).
And you chide me for very justifiably stating you didn't make any sense ... when you clearly didn't cuz you have know idea what you're commenting on. Lol.
As for the scan of Wolverine grabbing peter parker and having the claws at his throat, I do not believe you spent the time to read it. Spiderman LET him tackle him, and Wolverine said Spiderman didn't have guts to break Wolverine's neck. At the time, Spiderman made the comment that he could simply use his strength to break his neck. So I am not ignoring that scan. If you watch directly after, Wolverine doesn't land a shot.
You posted picks of the SpOck fight, written by Yost, to which I was clearly referencing. I tell you why not post the second part of that fight where Logan has Spidey pinned claws to face ... and you go off on the graveyard fight? Seriously bud, try to stay with the program and follow the argument before you go off half cocked with wise remarks. Again, Lol. Here's the second part of the fight from a book you obviously, yet again, have not read;
That's what I was obviously referring to when talking directly about the Superior Spider-Man fight scans you had posted - stating why not post the second part of the match-up. Again, if you're going to try and be wise, at least try to follow the argument.
And all I can say to the rest of your points is holy crap. Literally. I, personally, would be embarrassed to have immortalized myself online thus with retorts like that. Needless to say, you did not address anything I had said, at all, with any ounce of understanding. It's almost shocking. Pull out a pair of binoculars and look way up over your head ... you might begin to see a few of the points I was making flying right above you.
Most of your post was name calling, you are acting like your knowledge is superior simply because I disagree with your review and/or your argument. When you want to reply without the belittling comment, so we can actually get stuff accomplished, then I will. However, I do not want to start a flame war with you for the reason that I like this thread, and I will not put myself in a low position such as name calling or belittling.
@cable_extreme: No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill.
Wolverine doesn't have to be faster than GG in order to dodge him. That's the part you seem to be having serious trouble grasping.
If I were you I'd find a different angle to approach this on or just abandon this thread entirely. You aren't winning over anyone with your ABC logic and you're honestly just coming across as being belligerently ignorant.
You are not understanding my point. My point is that GG is fast enough to tag Spiderman, yet a slower opponent such as Ult CA evades him. I am not arguing Captain America's ability to tag GG. It is a low showing due to the fact that a slower opponent shouldn't be able to dodge everything a faster opponent can deal. You used ABC logic as well. But GG has so little to go on compared to Wolverine, that sometimes it is necessary. This fight alone is not enough to say Wolverine is the victor. A lot of other factors are being ignored, such as Captain America's shield deflecting any blast. When we look at the fight between Wolverine and GG, we see they both have ways to end the fight. GG has not used his long ranged attacks too often, he really never had a situation that really called for it. Now if Wolverine starts cutting him up, all it takes is a 2 year old to understand to back the !@#$ up and get out of there. Which is exactly what I think he will do. Now Wolverine will get some wins, but I think GG is so versatile he should come out on top.
(PS call me whatever you want, I will not reply negatively, that is not how I roll.)
How did I misunderstand your point when i repeated it back to you? Look at what i said. "No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill." I understand exactly what you are saying. What I am saying is that You are Wrong. Speed is only part of the equation when it comes to dodging. Skill is the other part.
You keep on saying "GG can hit Ult Spidey and Ult Spidey is faster than Ultimate Cap". You're completely disregarding Skill as being part of Dodging. I don't know how you keep on missing that.
Also, I never actually called you anything. I just mentioned how your comments thus far on this thread are making you look.
@cable_extreme: No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill.
Wolverine doesn't have to be faster than GG in order to dodge him. That's the part you seem to be having serious trouble grasping.
If I were you I'd find a different angle to approach this on or just abandon this thread entirely. You aren't winning over anyone with your ABC logic and you're honestly just coming across as being belligerently ignorant.
You are not understanding my point. My point is that GG is fast enough to tag Spiderman, yet a slower opponent such as Ult CA evades him. I am not arguing Captain America's ability to tag GG. It is a low showing due to the fact that a slower opponent shouldn't be able to dodge everything a faster opponent can deal. You used ABC logic as well. But GG has so little to go on compared to Wolverine, that sometimes it is necessary. This fight alone is not enough to say Wolverine is the victor. A lot of other factors are being ignored, such as Captain America's shield deflecting any blast. When we look at the fight between Wolverine and GG, we see they both have ways to end the fight. GG has not used his long ranged attacks too often, he really never had a situation that really called for it. Now if Wolverine starts cutting him up, all it takes is a 2 year old to understand to back the !@#$ up and get out of there. Which is exactly what I think he will do. Now Wolverine will get some wins, but I think GG is so versatile he should come out on top.
(PS call me whatever you want, I will not reply negatively, that is not how I roll.)
How did I misunderstand your point when i repeated it back to you? Look at what i said. "No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill." I understand exactly what you are saying. What I am saying is that You are Wrong. Speed is only part of the equation when it comes to dodging. Skill is the other part.
You keep on saying "GG can hit Ult Spidey and Ult Spidey is faster than Ultimate Cap". You're completely disregarding Skill as being part of Dodging. I don't know how you keep on missing that.
Also, I never actually called you anything. I just mentioned how your comments thus far on this thread are making you look.
You said I am "belligerently ignorant' did you not? And skill is a big factor, I never dismissed it, but it is not a big enough factor to allow you to dodge EVERYTHING when you go back and forth with a much faster opponent. That is not a statement of ignorance, and you are also ruining your argument with that logic. It must mean that Wolverine is simply riding on skill rather than speed. Since speed isn't necessary when fighting faster people...
@cable_extreme: No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill.
Wolverine doesn't have to be faster than GG in order to dodge him. That's the part you seem to be having serious trouble grasping.
If I were you I'd find a different angle to approach this on or just abandon this thread entirely. You aren't winning over anyone with your ABC logic and you're honestly just coming across as being belligerently ignorant.
You are not understanding my point. My point is that GG is fast enough to tag Spiderman, yet a slower opponent such as Ult CA evades him. I am not arguing Captain America's ability to tag GG. It is a low showing due to the fact that a slower opponent shouldn't be able to dodge everything a faster opponent can deal. You used ABC logic as well. But GG has so little to go on compared to Wolverine, that sometimes it is necessary. This fight alone is not enough to say Wolverine is the victor. A lot of other factors are being ignored, such as Captain America's shield deflecting any blast. When we look at the fight between Wolverine and GG, we see they both have ways to end the fight. GG has not used his long ranged attacks too often, he really never had a situation that really called for it. Now if Wolverine starts cutting him up, all it takes is a 2 year old to understand to back the !@#$ up and get out of there. Which is exactly what I think he will do. Now Wolverine will get some wins, but I think GG is so versatile he should come out on top.
(PS call me whatever you want, I will not reply negatively, that is not how I roll.)
How did I misunderstand your point when i repeated it back to you? Look at what i said. "No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill." I understand exactly what you are saying. What I am saying is that You are Wrong. Speed is only part of the equation when it comes to dodging. Skill is the other part.
You keep on saying "GG can hit Ult Spidey and Ult Spidey is faster than Ultimate Cap". You're completely disregarding Skill as being part of Dodging. I don't know how you keep on missing that.
Also, I never actually called you anything. I just mentioned how your comments thus far on this thread are making you look.
You said I am "belligerently ignorant' did you not? And skill is a big factor, I never dismissed it, but it is not a big enough factor to allow you to dodge EVERYTHING when you go back and forth with a much faster opponent. That is not a statement of ignorance, and you are also ruining your argument with that logic. It must mean that Wolverine is simply riding on skill rather than speed. Since speed isn't necessary when fighting faster people...
Goblin isn't faster. Multiple people have already pointed that out to you.
@cable_extreme: No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill.
Wolverine doesn't have to be faster than GG in order to dodge him. That's the part you seem to be having serious trouble grasping.
If I were you I'd find a different angle to approach this on or just abandon this thread entirely. You aren't winning over anyone with your ABC logic and you're honestly just coming across as being belligerently ignorant.
You are not understanding my point. My point is that GG is fast enough to tag Spiderman, yet a slower opponent such as Ult CA evades him. I am not arguing Captain America's ability to tag GG. It is a low showing due to the fact that a slower opponent shouldn't be able to dodge everything a faster opponent can deal. You used ABC logic as well. But GG has so little to go on compared to Wolverine, that sometimes it is necessary. This fight alone is not enough to say Wolverine is the victor. A lot of other factors are being ignored, such as Captain America's shield deflecting any blast. When we look at the fight between Wolverine and GG, we see they both have ways to end the fight. GG has not used his long ranged attacks too often, he really never had a situation that really called for it. Now if Wolverine starts cutting him up, all it takes is a 2 year old to understand to back the !@#$ up and get out of there. Which is exactly what I think he will do. Now Wolverine will get some wins, but I think GG is so versatile he should come out on top.
(PS call me whatever you want, I will not reply negatively, that is not how I roll.)
How did I misunderstand your point when i repeated it back to you? Look at what i said. "No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill." I understand exactly what you are saying. What I am saying is that You are Wrong. Speed is only part of the equation when it comes to dodging. Skill is the other part.
You keep on saying "GG can hit Ult Spidey and Ult Spidey is faster than Ultimate Cap". You're completely disregarding Skill as being part of Dodging. I don't know how you keep on missing that.
Also, I never actually called you anything. I just mentioned how your comments thus far on this thread are making you look.
You said I am "belligerently ignorant' did you not? And skill is a big factor, I never dismissed it, but it is not a big enough factor to allow you to dodge EVERYTHING when you go back and forth with a much faster opponent. That is not a statement of ignorance, and you are also ruining your argument with that logic. It must mean that Wolverine is simply riding on skill rather than speed. Since speed isn't necessary when fighting faster people...
No, I said you were coming across AS "belligerently ignorant". That is to say even though you've been shown multiple times by multiple people that your argument is flawed...you seem to be just tuning out the parts you don't like and pushing the exact same argument.
And no, I'm not countering my own argument...because I never said Skill was the only thing that matters. Wolverine is also very fast. Just like Ultimate Cap is very fast. Maybe they aren't as fast as Spider-Man...but they aren't slow. Wolverine specifically has surprised Spider-Man with how fast he is. As has 616 Captain America (who doesn't have the Stats Ultimate cap does...but does have a much higher degree of skill). What I am saying is they can dodge because of Speed AND Skill. You're the one that keeps on saying "Ultimate GG tags Ultimate Spider-Man...and he's faster than Ultimate Cap...therefore that's a low showing for Ultimate GG". You disregard the effect Skill has on dodging. You completely disregard Ultimate Cap's own showings. Someone who is fast and has skill is more likely to dodge something than someone who is just fast. They've trained themselves to know how to react. Ultimate Peter does everything on Instinct and reacting solely on instinct can get you into trouble. So many times he has dodged one attack in such a way that it leaves him wide open for the next one. And that's not just ultimate Peter's problem...616 had the same problem. Ultimate Cap is much better at reacting in a way that leaves him still able to defend.
@cable_extreme: No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill.
Wolverine doesn't have to be faster than GG in order to dodge him. That's the part you seem to be having serious trouble grasping.
If I were you I'd find a different angle to approach this on or just abandon this thread entirely. You aren't winning over anyone with your ABC logic and you're honestly just coming across as being belligerently ignorant.
You are not understanding my point. My point is that GG is fast enough to tag Spiderman, yet a slower opponent such as Ult CA evades him. I am not arguing Captain America's ability to tag GG. It is a low showing due to the fact that a slower opponent shouldn't be able to dodge everything a faster opponent can deal. You used ABC logic as well. But GG has so little to go on compared to Wolverine, that sometimes it is necessary. This fight alone is not enough to say Wolverine is the victor. A lot of other factors are being ignored, such as Captain America's shield deflecting any blast. When we look at the fight between Wolverine and GG, we see they both have ways to end the fight. GG has not used his long ranged attacks too often, he really never had a situation that really called for it. Now if Wolverine starts cutting him up, all it takes is a 2 year old to understand to back the !@#$ up and get out of there. Which is exactly what I think he will do. Now Wolverine will get some wins, but I think GG is so versatile he should come out on top.
(PS call me whatever you want, I will not reply negatively, that is not how I roll.)
How did I misunderstand your point when i repeated it back to you? Look at what i said. "No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill." I understand exactly what you are saying. What I am saying is that You are Wrong. Speed is only part of the equation when it comes to dodging. Skill is the other part.
You keep on saying "GG can hit Ult Spidey and Ult Spidey is faster than Ultimate Cap". You're completely disregarding Skill as being part of Dodging. I don't know how you keep on missing that.
Also, I never actually called you anything. I just mentioned how your comments thus far on this thread are making you look.
You said I am "belligerently ignorant' did you not? And skill is a big factor, I never dismissed it, but it is not a big enough factor to allow you to dodge EVERYTHING when you go back and forth with a much faster opponent. That is not a statement of ignorance, and you are also ruining your argument with that logic. It must mean that Wolverine is simply riding on skill rather than speed. Since speed isn't necessary when fighting faster people...
Goblin isn't faster. Multiple people have already pointed that out to you.
Faster than who? Ult Spiderman is a faster opponent than Ult CA. GG has no trouble tagging Ult Spiderman, but couldn't hardly land a single shot on Ult Cap. Skill does not make up for that much, it is a low showing. Or if you want, we can simply say Wolverine and all his speed feats are simply his skill rather than actual speed. Regardless, that is an okay comparison, however, Wolverine does not have a shield to block fire blast so he will be eating fire in the face repeatedly. GG has shown more than enough durability/healing factor to take a few cuts from Wolverine, and Wolverine doesn't always go for a killing blow in the first 2 seconds of the match, he won't know that GG has a healing factor, maybe after a few slashes, he will know he need to go for a decapitation, but by that time, GG will realize staying in close is a bad idea. It doesn't take an intelligent mind to know not to go CC with Wolverine if you have long ranged capabilities.
@cable_extreme: No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill.
Wolverine doesn't have to be faster than GG in order to dodge him. That's the part you seem to be having serious trouble grasping.
If I were you I'd find a different angle to approach this on or just abandon this thread entirely. You aren't winning over anyone with your ABC logic and you're honestly just coming across as being belligerently ignorant.
You are not understanding my point. My point is that GG is fast enough to tag Spiderman, yet a slower opponent such as Ult CA evades him. I am not arguing Captain America's ability to tag GG. It is a low showing due to the fact that a slower opponent shouldn't be able to dodge everything a faster opponent can deal. You used ABC logic as well. But GG has so little to go on compared to Wolverine, that sometimes it is necessary. This fight alone is not enough to say Wolverine is the victor. A lot of other factors are being ignored, such as Captain America's shield deflecting any blast. When we look at the fight between Wolverine and GG, we see they both have ways to end the fight. GG has not used his long ranged attacks too often, he really never had a situation that really called for it. Now if Wolverine starts cutting him up, all it takes is a 2 year old to understand to back the !@#$ up and get out of there. Which is exactly what I think he will do. Now Wolverine will get some wins, but I think GG is so versatile he should come out on top.
(PS call me whatever you want, I will not reply negatively, that is not how I roll.)
How did I misunderstand your point when i repeated it back to you? Look at what i said. "No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill." I understand exactly what you are saying. What I am saying is that You are Wrong. Speed is only part of the equation when it comes to dodging. Skill is the other part.
You keep on saying "GG can hit Ult Spidey and Ult Spidey is faster than Ultimate Cap". You're completely disregarding Skill as being part of Dodging. I don't know how you keep on missing that.
Also, I never actually called you anything. I just mentioned how your comments thus far on this thread are making you look.
You said I am "belligerently ignorant' did you not? And skill is a big factor, I never dismissed it, but it is not a big enough factor to allow you to dodge EVERYTHING when you go back and forth with a much faster opponent. That is not a statement of ignorance, and you are also ruining your argument with that logic. It must mean that Wolverine is simply riding on skill rather than speed. Since speed isn't necessary when fighting faster people...
No, I said you were coming across AS "belligerently ignorant". That is to say even though you've been shown multiple times by multiple people that your argument is flawed...you seem to be just tuning out the parts you don't like and pushing the exact same argument.
And no, I'm not countering my own argument...because I never said Skill was the only thing that matters. Wolverine is also very fast. Just like Ultimate Cap is very fast. Maybe they aren't as fast as Spider-Man...but they aren't slow. Wolverine specifically has surprised Spider-Man with how fast he is. As has 616 Captain America (who doesn't have the Stats Ultimate cap does...but does have a much higher degree of skill). What I am saying is they can dodge because of Speed AND Skill. You're the one that keeps on saying "Ultimate GG tags Ultimate Spider-Man...and he's faster than Ultimate Cap...therefore that's a low showing for Ultimate GG". You disregard the effect Skill has on dodging. You completely disregard Ultimate Cap's own showings. Someone who is fast and has skill is more likely to dodge something than someone who is just fast. They've trained themselves to know how to react. Ultimate Peter does everything on Instinct and reacting solely on instinct can get you into trouble. So many times he has dodged one attack in such a way that it leaves him wide open for the next one. And that's not just ultimate Peter's problem...616 had the same problem. Ultimate Cap is much better at reacting in a way that leaves him still able to defend.
It seem to think skill is much better than Spidey sense. To tag Ult Spiderman with Spidersense, you have to be fast regardless of skill. If he is fast enough to land repeated blows, while getting past his spidey sense, then CA's skill simply cannot make up for that. It is a low showing.
@cable_extreme: No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill.
Wolverine doesn't have to be faster than GG in order to dodge him. That's the part you seem to be having serious trouble grasping.
If I were you I'd find a different angle to approach this on or just abandon this thread entirely. You aren't winning over anyone with your ABC logic and you're honestly just coming across as being belligerently ignorant.
You are not understanding my point. My point is that GG is fast enough to tag Spiderman, yet a slower opponent such as Ult CA evades him. I am not arguing Captain America's ability to tag GG. It is a low showing due to the fact that a slower opponent shouldn't be able to dodge everything a faster opponent can deal. You used ABC logic as well. But GG has so little to go on compared to Wolverine, that sometimes it is necessary. This fight alone is not enough to say Wolverine is the victor. A lot of other factors are being ignored, such as Captain America's shield deflecting any blast. When we look at the fight between Wolverine and GG, we see they both have ways to end the fight. GG has not used his long ranged attacks too often, he really never had a situation that really called for it. Now if Wolverine starts cutting him up, all it takes is a 2 year old to understand to back the !@#$ up and get out of there. Which is exactly what I think he will do. Now Wolverine will get some wins, but I think GG is so versatile he should come out on top.
(PS call me whatever you want, I will not reply negatively, that is not how I roll.)
How did I misunderstand your point when i repeated it back to you? Look at what i said. "No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill." I understand exactly what you are saying. What I am saying is that You are Wrong. Speed is only part of the equation when it comes to dodging. Skill is the other part.
You keep on saying "GG can hit Ult Spidey and Ult Spidey is faster than Ultimate Cap". You're completely disregarding Skill as being part of Dodging. I don't know how you keep on missing that.
Also, I never actually called you anything. I just mentioned how your comments thus far on this thread are making you look.
You said I am "belligerently ignorant' did you not? And skill is a big factor, I never dismissed it, but it is not a big enough factor to allow you to dodge EVERYTHING when you go back and forth with a much faster opponent. That is not a statement of ignorance, and you are also ruining your argument with that logic. It must mean that Wolverine is simply riding on skill rather than speed. Since speed isn't necessary when fighting faster people...
No, I said you were coming across AS "belligerently ignorant". That is to say even though you've been shown multiple times by multiple people that your argument is flawed...you seem to be just tuning out the parts you don't like and pushing the exact same argument.
And no, I'm not countering my own argument...because I never said Skill was the only thing that matters. Wolverine is also very fast. Just like Ultimate Cap is very fast. Maybe they aren't as fast as Spider-Man...but they aren't slow. Wolverine specifically has surprised Spider-Man with how fast he is. As has 616 Captain America (who doesn't have the Stats Ultimate cap does...but does have a much higher degree of skill). What I am saying is they can dodge because of Speed AND Skill. You're the one that keeps on saying "Ultimate GG tags Ultimate Spider-Man...and he's faster than Ultimate Cap...therefore that's a low showing for Ultimate GG". You disregard the effect Skill has on dodging. You completely disregard Ultimate Cap's own showings. Someone who is fast and has skill is more likely to dodge something than someone who is just fast. They've trained themselves to know how to react. Ultimate Peter does everything on Instinct and reacting solely on instinct can get you into trouble. So many times he has dodged one attack in such a way that it leaves him wide open for the next one. And that's not just ultimate Peter's problem...616 had the same problem. Ultimate Cap is much better at reacting in a way that leaves him still able to defend.
It seem to think skill is much better than Spidey sense. To tag Ult Spiderman with Spidersense, you have to be fast regardless of skill. If he is fast enough to land repeated blows, while getting past his spidey sense, then CA's skill simply cannot make up for that. It is a low showing.
And again you are completely disregarding both Skill and Ultimate Cap's other showings.
This is still raging?
@cable_extreme: No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill.
Wolverine doesn't have to be faster than GG in order to dodge him. That's the part you seem to be having serious trouble grasping.
If I were you I'd find a different angle to approach this on or just abandon this thread entirely. You aren't winning over anyone with your ABC logic and you're honestly just coming across as being belligerently ignorant.
You are not understanding my point. My point is that GG is fast enough to tag Spiderman, yet a slower opponent such as Ult CA evades him. I am not arguing Captain America's ability to tag GG. It is a low showing due to the fact that a slower opponent shouldn't be able to dodge everything a faster opponent can deal. You used ABC logic as well. But GG has so little to go on compared to Wolverine, that sometimes it is necessary. This fight alone is not enough to say Wolverine is the victor. A lot of other factors are being ignored, such as Captain America's shield deflecting any blast. When we look at the fight between Wolverine and GG, we see they both have ways to end the fight. GG has not used his long ranged attacks too often, he really never had a situation that really called for it. Now if Wolverine starts cutting him up, all it takes is a 2 year old to understand to back the !@#$ up and get out of there. Which is exactly what I think he will do. Now Wolverine will get some wins, but I think GG is so versatile he should come out on top.
(PS call me whatever you want, I will not reply negatively, that is not how I roll.)
How did I misunderstand your point when i repeated it back to you? Look at what i said. "No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill." I understand exactly what you are saying. What I am saying is that You are Wrong. Speed is only part of the equation when it comes to dodging. Skill is the other part.
You keep on saying "GG can hit Ult Spidey and Ult Spidey is faster than Ultimate Cap". You're completely disregarding Skill as being part of Dodging. I don't know how you keep on missing that.
Also, I never actually called you anything. I just mentioned how your comments thus far on this thread are making you look.
You said I am "belligerently ignorant' did you not? And skill is a big factor, I never dismissed it, but it is not a big enough factor to allow you to dodge EVERYTHING when you go back and forth with a much faster opponent. That is not a statement of ignorance, and you are also ruining your argument with that logic. It must mean that Wolverine is simply riding on skill rather than speed. Since speed isn't necessary when fighting faster people...
No, I said you were coming across AS "belligerently ignorant". That is to say even though you've been shown multiple times by multiple people that your argument is flawed...you seem to be just tuning out the parts you don't like and pushing the exact same argument.
And no, I'm not countering my own argument...because I never said Skill was the only thing that matters. Wolverine is also very fast. Just like Ultimate Cap is very fast. Maybe they aren't as fast as Spider-Man...but they aren't slow. Wolverine specifically has surprised Spider-Man with how fast he is. As has 616 Captain America (who doesn't have the Stats Ultimate cap does...but does have a much higher degree of skill). What I am saying is they can dodge because of Speed AND Skill. You're the one that keeps on saying "Ultimate GG tags Ultimate Spider-Man...and he's faster than Ultimate Cap...therefore that's a low showing for Ultimate GG". You disregard the effect Skill has on dodging. You completely disregard Ultimate Cap's own showings. Someone who is fast and has skill is more likely to dodge something than someone who is just fast. They've trained themselves to know how to react. Ultimate Peter does everything on Instinct and reacting solely on instinct can get you into trouble. So many times he has dodged one attack in such a way that it leaves him wide open for the next one. And that's not just ultimate Peter's problem...616 had the same problem. Ultimate Cap is much better at reacting in a way that leaves him still able to defend.
It seem to think skill is much better than Spidey sense. To tag Ult Spiderman with Spidersense, you have to be fast regardless of skill. If he is fast enough to land repeated blows, while getting past his spidey sense, then CA's skill simply cannot make up for that. It is a low showing.
And again you are completely disregarding both Skill and Ultimate Cap's other showings.
How so? You are disregarding GG's other showings. I didn't disregard Caps skill at all, I simply said Spidey sense makes up for Spidey's lack in skill. Would you like me to inform you why Spidey sense makes up for lack of skill? Because it allow the person to be alerted of danger, and it's sole purpose is to make them extremely hard to hit. It is a power that adds onto their speed. Skill is very effective, but you are stretching it far when you say skill is the reason GG couldn't touch Ult Cap when he has had no problem touching Ult Spidey who has Spidey sense. Your argument is ABC logic as well, since you or Wolverine08 brought up the situation to compare to Wolverine. My argument is Spidey sense (basically a power to dodge stuff) > at dodging than skill is.
@cable_extreme: No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill.
Wolverine doesn't have to be faster than GG in order to dodge him. That's the part you seem to be having serious trouble grasping.
If I were you I'd find a different angle to approach this on or just abandon this thread entirely. You aren't winning over anyone with your ABC logic and you're honestly just coming across as being belligerently ignorant.
You are not understanding my point. My point is that GG is fast enough to tag Spiderman, yet a slower opponent such as Ult CA evades him. I am not arguing Captain America's ability to tag GG. It is a low showing due to the fact that a slower opponent shouldn't be able to dodge everything a faster opponent can deal. You used ABC logic as well. But GG has so little to go on compared to Wolverine, that sometimes it is necessary. This fight alone is not enough to say Wolverine is the victor. A lot of other factors are being ignored, such as Captain America's shield deflecting any blast. When we look at the fight between Wolverine and GG, we see they both have ways to end the fight. GG has not used his long ranged attacks too often, he really never had a situation that really called for it. Now if Wolverine starts cutting him up, all it takes is a 2 year old to understand to back the !@#$ up and get out of there. Which is exactly what I think he will do. Now Wolverine will get some wins, but I think GG is so versatile he should come out on top.
(PS call me whatever you want, I will not reply negatively, that is not how I roll.)
How did I misunderstand your point when i repeated it back to you? Look at what i said. "No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill." I understand exactly what you are saying. What I am saying is that You are Wrong. Speed is only part of the equation when it comes to dodging. Skill is the other part.
You keep on saying "GG can hit Ult Spidey and Ult Spidey is faster than Ultimate Cap". You're completely disregarding Skill as being part of Dodging. I don't know how you keep on missing that.
Also, I never actually called you anything. I just mentioned how your comments thus far on this thread are making you look.
You said I am "belligerently ignorant' did you not? And skill is a big factor, I never dismissed it, but it is not a big enough factor to allow you to dodge EVERYTHING when you go back and forth with a much faster opponent. That is not a statement of ignorance, and you are also ruining your argument with that logic. It must mean that Wolverine is simply riding on skill rather than speed. Since speed isn't necessary when fighting faster people...
No, I said you were coming across AS "belligerently ignorant". That is to say even though you've been shown multiple times by multiple people that your argument is flawed...you seem to be just tuning out the parts you don't like and pushing the exact same argument.
And no, I'm not countering my own argument...because I never said Skill was the only thing that matters. Wolverine is also very fast. Just like Ultimate Cap is very fast. Maybe they aren't as fast as Spider-Man...but they aren't slow. Wolverine specifically has surprised Spider-Man with how fast he is. As has 616 Captain America (who doesn't have the Stats Ultimate cap does...but does have a much higher degree of skill). What I am saying is they can dodge because of Speed AND Skill. You're the one that keeps on saying "Ultimate GG tags Ultimate Spider-Man...and he's faster than Ultimate Cap...therefore that's a low showing for Ultimate GG". You disregard the effect Skill has on dodging. You completely disregard Ultimate Cap's own showings. Someone who is fast and has skill is more likely to dodge something than someone who is just fast. They've trained themselves to know how to react. Ultimate Peter does everything on Instinct and reacting solely on instinct can get you into trouble. So many times he has dodged one attack in such a way that it leaves him wide open for the next one. And that's not just ultimate Peter's problem...616 had the same problem. Ultimate Cap is much better at reacting in a way that leaves him still able to defend.
It seem to think skill is much better than Spidey sense. To tag Ult Spiderman with Spidersense, you have to be fast regardless of skill. If he is fast enough to land repeated blows, while getting past his spidey sense, then CA's skill simply cannot make up for that. It is a low showing.
And again you are completely disregarding both Skill and Ultimate Cap's other showings.
How so? You are disregarding GG's other showings. I didn't disregard Caps skill at all, I simply said Spidey sense makes up for Spidey's lack in skill. Would you like me to inform you why Spidey sense makes up for lack of skill? Because it allow the person to be alerted of danger, and it's sole purpose is to make them extremely hard to hit. It is a power that adds onto their speed. Skill is very effective, but you are stretching it far when you say skill is the reason GG couldn't touch Ult Cap when he has had no problem touching Ult Spidey who has Spidey sense. Your argument is ABC logic as well, since you or Wolverine08 brought up the situation to compare to Wolverine. My argument is Spidey sense (basically a power to dodge stuff) > at dodging than skill is.
Your ABC logic is "GG hits Spidey. GG should always hit everyone slower than Spidey". That's fallacious reasoning. If Speed + Spider-Sense were the only factors to consider...Spidey would never get hit by GG or anyone else. By your reasoning Ultimate GG tagging Spider-Man is a Low Showing for Spider-Man. What you are missing is the Battlefield Awareness Ultimate Cap brings to the table that Peter does not have. He doesn't leave himself open to one attack by overcommitting to dodging the one before. Peter does this all the time. More important than speed is the ability to use that speed optimally. That comes from Skill. When 616 Peter learned the Way of the Spider when he didn't have his Spider-Sense...when his Spider-Sense returned it was even more effective because he had taught himself how to properly use his speed without relying on the crutch of his Spider-Sense.
Please lay out exactly what you see as me using ABC Logic.
@cable_extreme: No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill.
Wolverine doesn't have to be faster than GG in order to dodge him. That's the part you seem to be having serious trouble grasping.
If I were you I'd find a different angle to approach this on or just abandon this thread entirely. You aren't winning over anyone with your ABC logic and you're honestly just coming across as being belligerently ignorant.
You are not understanding my point. My point is that GG is fast enough to tag Spiderman, yet a slower opponent such as Ult CA evades him. I am not arguing Captain America's ability to tag GG. It is a low showing due to the fact that a slower opponent shouldn't be able to dodge everything a faster opponent can deal. You used ABC logic as well. But GG has so little to go on compared to Wolverine, that sometimes it is necessary. This fight alone is not enough to say Wolverine is the victor. A lot of other factors are being ignored, such as Captain America's shield deflecting any blast. When we look at the fight between Wolverine and GG, we see they both have ways to end the fight. GG has not used his long ranged attacks too often, he really never had a situation that really called for it. Now if Wolverine starts cutting him up, all it takes is a 2 year old to understand to back the !@#$ up and get out of there. Which is exactly what I think he will do. Now Wolverine will get some wins, but I think GG is so versatile he should come out on top.
(PS call me whatever you want, I will not reply negatively, that is not how I roll.)
How did I misunderstand your point when i repeated it back to you? Look at what i said. "No, what you are saying is that since Ultimate GG can Tag Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate Cap dodging GG is PIS. But you're completely missing the fact that dodging and hitting are not entirely based on speed. If that were the case the faster character would always win regardless of the others skill." I understand exactly what you are saying. What I am saying is that You are Wrong. Speed is only part of the equation when it comes to dodging. Skill is the other part.
You keep on saying "GG can hit Ult Spidey and Ult Spidey is faster than Ultimate Cap". You're completely disregarding Skill as being part of Dodging. I don't know how you keep on missing that.
Also, I never actually called you anything. I just mentioned how your comments thus far on this thread are making you look.
You said I am "belligerently ignorant' did you not? And skill is a big factor, I never dismissed it, but it is not a big enough factor to allow you to dodge EVERYTHING when you go back and forth with a much faster opponent. That is not a statement of ignorance, and you are also ruining your argument with that logic. It must mean that Wolverine is simply riding on skill rather than speed. Since speed isn't necessary when fighting faster people...
No, I said you were coming across AS "belligerently ignorant". That is to say even though you've been shown multiple times by multiple people that your argument is flawed...you seem to be just tuning out the parts you don't like and pushing the exact same argument.
And no, I'm not countering my own argument...because I never said Skill was the only thing that matters. Wolverine is also very fast. Just like Ultimate Cap is very fast. Maybe they aren't as fast as Spider-Man...but they aren't slow. Wolverine specifically has surprised Spider-Man with how fast he is. As has 616 Captain America (who doesn't have the Stats Ultimate cap does...but does have a much higher degree of skill). What I am saying is they can dodge because of Speed AND Skill. You're the one that keeps on saying "Ultimate GG tags Ultimate Spider-Man...and he's faster than Ultimate Cap...therefore that's a low showing for Ultimate GG". You disregard the effect Skill has on dodging. You completely disregard Ultimate Cap's own showings. Someone who is fast and has skill is more likely to dodge something than someone who is just fast. They've trained themselves to know how to react. Ultimate Peter does everything on Instinct and reacting solely on instinct can get you into trouble. So many times he has dodged one attack in such a way that it leaves him wide open for the next one. And that's not just ultimate Peter's problem...616 had the same problem. Ultimate Cap is much better at reacting in a way that leaves him still able to defend.
It seem to think skill is much better than Spidey sense. To tag Ult Spiderman with Spidersense, you have to be fast regardless of skill. If he is fast enough to land repeated blows, while getting past his spidey sense, then CA's skill simply cannot make up for that. It is a low showing.
And again you are completely disregarding both Skill and Ultimate Cap's other showings.
How so? You are disregarding GG's other showings. I didn't disregard Caps skill at all, I simply said Spidey sense makes up for Spidey's lack in skill. Would you like me to inform you why Spidey sense makes up for lack of skill? Because it allow the person to be alerted of danger, and it's sole purpose is to make them extremely hard to hit. It is a power that adds onto their speed. Skill is very effective, but you are stretching it far when you say skill is the reason GG couldn't touch Ult Cap when he has had no problem touching Ult Spidey who has Spidey sense. Your argument is ABC logic as well, since you or Wolverine08 brought up the situation to compare to Wolverine. My argument is Spidey sense (basically a power to dodge stuff) > at dodging than skill is.
Your ABC logic is "GG hits Spidey. GG should always hit everyone slower than Spidey". That's fallacious reasoning. If Speed + Spider-Sense were the only factors to consider...Spidey would never get hit by GG or anyone else. By your reasoning Ultimate GG tagging Spider-Man is a Low Showing for Spider-Man. What you are missing is the Battlefield Awareness Ultimate Cap brings to the table that Peter does not have. He doesn't leave himself open to one attack by overcommitting to dodging the one before. Peter does this all the time. More important than speed is the ability to use that speed optimally. That comes from Skill. When 616 Peter learned the Way of the Spider when he didn't have his Spider-Sense...when his Spider-Sense returned it was even more effective because he had taught himself how to properly use his speed without relying on the crutch of his Spider-Sense.
Please lay out exactly what you see as me using ABC Logic.
You used ABC logic by comparing Cap with Wolverine.I didn't bring the fight up, and you jumped in when Wolverine08 did. And I am not saying GG tagging Spiderman is a low showing for Spiderman, GG is a Ult Spiderman villain. So for a good story, he should be able to tag him, however, he is consistently seen tagging Ult Spiderman, and not in just one fight. That is consistent with him being fast enough to tag Spidey with his spidey senses on. However, a single fight between Ult Cap and GG makes you think otherwise?
@cable_extreme: I have never said anything along the lines of "Ultimate Cap dodges GG therefore Wolverine can"...so you can't call me on ABC logic for that...what someone else may have said does not reflect on me.
All I have been saying is you cannot rule out Ult Cap's performance against Ultimate GG simply because you don't like it. It's consistent with Ultimate Cap.
@cable_extreme: I have never said anything along the lines of "Ultimate Cap dodges GG therefore Wolverine can"...so you can't call me on ABC logic for that...what someone else may have said does not reflect on me.
All I have been saying is you cannot rule out Ult Cap's performance against Ultimate GG simply because you don't like it. It's consistent with Ultimate Cap.
Because I called them out on ABC logic and then used it to combat theirs, then you come at me like I was the one originally doing it. Well, then I could argue that Deathstroke's flash tagging feats are non pis simple due to it being consistent. You don't see how your argument backfires?
@shawnbaby: @super_soldierxii: @wolverine08
Just wanted to inform all of you that I was gone for 3 weeks, I went to Hawaii on a vacation, and apparently my little brother has been on this account. Sooo yeah.... sorry for that.
Goblin stomps.
Goblin stomps.
I don't know about stomps. He wins, sure. But he doesn't stomp.
Jmarshmallow
@jmarshmallow: Isn't he much stronger and more durable? I am seeing the Claws have an hard time getting through Goblin
Wolverine.
@jmarshmallow: Isn't he much stronger and more durable? I am seeing the Claws have an hard time getting through Goblin
Stronger? Yeah I'd say so. More durable? I doubt that honestly.
Jmarshmallow
@jmarshmallow: Isn't he much stronger and more durable? I am seeing the Claws have an hard time getting through Goblin
The adamantium claws have cut through people like Thor, Thanos, Gladiator, Hulk, Thing, etc. They'll go through Green Goblin like Swiss Cheese. Goblin has inferior healing factor here, which means he doesn't have the same damage soak/durability Wolverine. Combined with the fact that he doesn't have the raw strength to put Wolverine through blunt force, and his other form of attack, fire, has been consistently soaked by Wolverine and will take a good deal of time to incapacitate him, and Goblin isn't going to win.
Yeah, GG still wins ;)
@cable_extreme: You have a bro?
Yeah, Logan still wins ;)
Oh, the dreaded correction quote. You meddling kids.
@cable_extreme: You have a bro?
Yep, little rascal.
@cadencev2: TBH I was afraid you'd quote me quoting you but fix it back to "GG"... then I'd do it again to fix to Logan... and on and on
Wolverine FTW!
Oh, I know this game :) I know your tricks.
@cable_extreme: How old?
@cable_extreme: How old?
17... why?
@cable_extreme: OH I DO LIKE MY 17 YEAR OLD BOYS MMMM HMMMMM I CAN TASTE HIM ALREADY....
Wait.... What just happened? AH!! Ummm.... I was just um curious because um I never um knew um that you um had a ummm brother um....
..........
@ancient_0f_days: I don't know why i found that so funny.
@ancient_0f_days: I don't know why i found that so funny.
1. it's Tracy Morgan
2. he and his crew are backing up in a funny ass way
3. this thread got weird and it's totally appropriate for the situation, I'm backing on out....
that, is why you found it so funny....
@ancient_0f_days: Hmm. Also, probably because i read the comment above then saw yours.
@ancient_0f_days: Hmm. Also, probably because i read the comment above then saw yours.
3. this thread got weird and it's totally appropriate for the situation, I'm backing on out....
that, is why you found it so funny....
I thought Wolverine could regenerate his heart and brain. Exponential mutant right there. The adamantium is made up of vibranium and titanium alloy right? Vibranium is a alien metal that absorbs shit. Wolverines agility is crazy and has gone toe to toe with the hulk. Not saying he's the winner just putting thoughts out there. Wolverine's always war ready. Ultimate Green Goblin wouldn't just obliterate. I honestly think Wolverine's under estimated given his abilites outside of just combat experience with different mutants for soo dam long. Wolverine's taking some damage to get a good slash to the noggin of Osborns'!
I'll say Wolverine unless he get's KO'd hahaha..
Norman
Norman
Probably. By KO though.
Ultimate Green Goblin wins
Ultimate Green Goblin wins
Aoe blasts and reacting speed are your main reasons right?
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