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#1 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

A true test for the Superior Spider Man. Can Spock defeat with no prep the Villain who killed Ultimate Spider Man?

In character.

Death or KO.

Random Battle.

Battle in Times Square.

Who wins?

#2 Posted by AllStarSuperman (21711 posts) - - Show Bio

SSM. but this is a good fight

Online
#3 Posted by jashro44 (20804 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate green goblin.

#4 Posted by nickzambuto (13392 posts) - - Show Bio

If Double G is so much better than Ultimate Spidey, how does Pete actually beat him most of the time?

#5 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

If Double G is so much better than Ultimate Spidey, how does Pete actually beat him most of the time?

..... he didnt. He has NEVER beaten GG except in the Death of Spider Man event, and that was contribute to Human Torch going all out on Goblin twice, Mary Jane slaming a truck into him at high speeds, Truck then gets smashed into his face 3-5 times, then Truck explodes in his face.

Then Goblin "May have" died. He looked dead, but has been played off dead twice before and was alive and well in SHIELD custody.

#6 Edited by nickzambuto (13392 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

If Double G is so much better than Ultimate Spidey, how does Pete actually beat him most of the time?

..... he didnt. He has NEVER beaten GG except in the Death of Spider Man event, and that was contribute to Human Torch going all out on Goblin twice, Mary Jane slaming a truck into him at high speeds, Truck then gets smashed into his face 3-5 times, then Truck explodes in his face.

Then Goblin "May have" died. He looked dead, but has been played off dead twice before and was alive and well in SHIELD custody.

I'm not trying to downplay Goblin, I am legitimately asking HOW does Spider-Man beat him? Obviously he does somehow considering Norman is often in SHIELD custody and Peter is... alive.

#7 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@nickzambuto said:

If Double G is so much better than Ultimate Spidey, how does Pete actually beat him most of the time?

..... he didnt. He has NEVER beaten GG except in the Death of Spider Man event, and that was contribute to Human Torch going all out on Goblin twice, Mary Jane slaming a truck into him at high speeds, Truck then gets smashed into his face 3-5 times, then Truck explodes in his face.

Then Goblin "May have" died. He looked dead, but has been played off dead twice before and was alive and well in SHIELD custody.

I'm not trying to downplay Goblin, I am legitimately asking HOW does Spider-Man beat him? Obviously he does somehow considering Norman is often in SHIELD custody and Peter is... alive.

Ok.

1st Arc: Osborn goes on the run to make plans to get Peter on his side.

2nd Arc: Osborn overdoses on Oz formula, then metally breaks down after Harry attacks reverting to human.

3rd Arc: Goblin is hit by Iron man Genetic Disruptor, this shuts Goblins powers down. Hardly a battle thread win, all prep on Tony's part.

4th Arc: After killing Harry, Osborn reverts to human to surrender.

5th arc: Takes all that beating from Human Torch, Mary Jane, and Spider Man. May or may not be dead.

#8 Posted by 106me (1496 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: Wait wait, hold up a sec, lol. Spiderman also just got out of a fight with electro, sandman, and vulture while he was injured. Goblin was down after spiderman (while still wounded) slammed a truck on his face twice. Then goblin was down. Please don't downplay Spiderman here.

#9 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@106me said:

@cadencev2: Wait wait, hold up a sec, lol. Spiderman also just got out of a fight with electro, sandman, and vulture while he was injured. Goblin was down after spiderman (while still wounded) slammed a truck on his face twice. Then goblin was down. Please don't downplay Spiderman here.

LOl say what? Spider man did not fight electro and gang, He lasted long enough for Aunt May to shoot Electro and taking down Sandman and Kraven. The only one Peter took down was Vulture. Which is reasonable in his condition. Torch did ALL the leg work vs Green Goblin and even then Mary Jane had to help Peter again.

Low Ball Peter? Do you know who your arguing with? Im the guy who brings out respect threads and arguments for Ultimate Marvel. Please.....

#10 Posted by Wolverine08 (41113 posts) - - Show Bio

SSM.

#11 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#12 Posted by 106me (1496 posts) - - Show Bio

@106me said:

@cadencev2: Wait wait, hold up a sec, lol. Spiderman also just got out of a fight with electro, sandman, and vulture while he was injured. Goblin was down after spiderman (while still wounded) slammed a truck on his face twice. Then goblin was down. Please don't downplay Spiderman here.

LOl say what? Spider man did not fight electro and gang, He lasted long enough for Aunt May to shoot Electro and taking down Sandman and Kraven. The only one Peter took down was Vulture. Which is reasonable in his condition. Torch did ALL the leg work vs Green Goblin and even then Mary Jane had to help Peter again.

Low Ball Peter? Do you know who your arguing with? Im the guy who brings out respect threads and arguments for Ultimate Marvel. Please.....

Unless your the president of the freaking U.S., then no, I don't know who I'm arguing with. Like I said though, that he did fight electro and gang, but lost. All the more reason to give credit to Parker for ending the fight with Goblin, considering the fact that he was seriously wounded. And torch was getting his own a** handed to him when he fought Goblin. Prove me wrong with a scan (no really, please pull up a scan if you can, this is not a challenge).

#13 Posted by GraniteSoldier (7535 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

Is it bias to argue in favor of Green Goblin because I enjoy the mental image of Ock getting horrifically punished?

#14 Posted by MonsterStomp (16960 posts) - - Show Bio

Gah. Can't find much on Superior Spider-Man :(

Lil help?

#15 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

bump

Is it bias to argue in favor of Green Goblin because I enjoy the mental image of Ock getting horrifically punished?

No.

@106me said:

Unless your the president of the freaking U.S., then no, I don't know who I'm arguing with. Like I said though, that he did fight electro and gang, but lost. All the more reason to give credit to Parker for ending the fight with Goblin, considering the fact that he was seriously wounded. And torch was getting his own a** handed to him when he fought Goblin. Prove me wrong with a scan (no really, please pull up a scan if you can, this is not a challenge).

You must have not read Death of Spider Man.

The New Ultimates and Ultimate Avengers had a massive fight. Spidey was caught in the cross fire saving Caps life. He is hit with the biggest Small Arm Round in the World, the .50 Cal Barret Sniper Round. Made to blow through Armored Vehicles.

However during all this the Sinister Six are out and after revenge in the confusion. Instead of running out of the country, GG decides they must kill Peter. Doc Ock wants nothing to do with this and decides to call it quits and be a Scientist again. Norman and Doc Ock have one major throw down.

They go to Pete's house where Iceman and Human Torch have a brief scuffle that KO Green Goblin. Then they themselves were put down. Then Parker arrives wounded, and dying. He fights this epic battle while bleeding to death. Giving the greatest Sacrifice twice in one night.

Lets look at these first sets of scans.

First off Human Torch with pretty much no morals at this point decimates Goblin. Then gets taken down by Sandman. Then Iceman also gets wrecked.

Here Spider Man shows up in his bad shape, he takes out Vulture only when fighting Sn\andman, Vulture, and Electro. He gets spanked after Vulture goes down.

Only then does Aunt May show up, shoots Electro, which then leads to the villains getting taken down in the after math blast!

Then GG is back and ready to rock, so what does a weaken Spider Man does? "Johnny, Help!"

This harms GG Im sure, but he absorbs the fire of the attack in the exchange. Now Spider Man is on his knees ready to die.

Until Mary Jane saves the day by all out speeding a 9+ ton truck into GG. Surprise! Then Spider Man with adrenalin pumping from Mary Jane in danger gets the strength to pound said truck onto Osborn's face. If that was not enough, it explodes in Osborn's face! With his wounds and life blood lost from the earlier wound, as well this truck explosion in his face, Spider Man dies. Osborn looks to be dead, but was never confirmed and has been said to be dead in the past, only to come back better than ever. So we will see in time if Osborn is truly dead.

So what Have I proved here?

  • That Peter only really fought and defeated Vulture on his own.
  • Peter needed saving left and right, given his condition it is reasonable.
  • Human Torch did all the major leg work vs Goblin with Mary Jane and Peter adding the final blows.

Where am I lowballing Peter again!?

#16 Posted by VeganDiet (1029 posts) - - Show Bio

Until Mary Jane saves the day by all out speeding a 9+ ton truck into GG. Surprise! Then Spider Man with adrenalin pumping from Mary Jane in danger gets the strength to pound said truck onto Osborn's face. If that was not enough, it explodes in Osborn's face! With his wounds and life blood lost from the earlier wound, as well this truck explosion in his face, Spider Man dies. Osborn looks to be dead, but was never confirmed and has been said to be dead in the past, only to come back better than ever. So we will see in time if Osborn is truly dead.

So what Have I proved here?

  • That Peter only really fought and defeated Vulture on his own.
  • Peter needed saving left and right, given his condition it is reasonable.
  • Human Torch did all the major leg work vs Goblin with Mary Jane and Peter adding the final blows.

Where am I lowballing Peter again!?

This harms him? Where exactly are you getting that? He absorbed every bit of the fire Johnny put out, so no, Human Torch did not do all the major leg work. It was all Peter and Mary Jane for the last round.

Online
#17 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

This harms him? Where exactly are you getting that? He absorbed every bit of the fire Johnny put out, so no, Human Torch did not do all the major leg work. It was all Peter and Mary Jane for the last round.

So the part where Human Torches explosive attack would added no damage at all? Is that your point? It was clearly explosive force with Johnny being blown away as well alot of Johnny's showings have a explosive blast to them period.

Easy to overlook this I suppose >_>

#18 Posted by jashro44 (20804 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly the death of spider-man is just a low showing for Norman. He usually dominates Ultimate Peter.

#19 Posted by laflux (15388 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

Honestly the death of spider-man is just a low showing for Norman. He usually dominates Ultimate Peter.

He's even one-shotted him before.

Online
#20 Posted by patrat18 (9568 posts) - - Show Bio

SSM

#21 Posted by jashro44 (20804 posts) - - Show Bio
#22 Posted by MonsterStomp (16960 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@monsterstomp said:

Gah. Can't find much on Superior Spider-Man :(

Lil help?

I had a debate with cadence where I uploaded a bunch of scans:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-jashro44-spock-vs-cadencev2-miles-votes-1476601/

Only thing worth noting is current Otto also has iron spider legs. He also can inject people with nano spider tracers which he can detonate if he scratches you. All though those are designed to be non lethal (they only cause pain).

Cheers dude, I'll check 'em out in the morning. It's technically the morning already (1:42am) but when I get back up.

#23 Posted by jashro44 (20804 posts) - - Show Bio
#24 Posted by Mezmero (921 posts) - - Show Bio

I might go with Ultimate Goblin on this one. Superior has yet to show any instances of turning the tables on a super strong foe without prep. The strongest dudes he's defeated are mostly in Avenging and Team-Up but he had support from other heroes in those instances. We need to establish equipment parameters to make it definitive win. I don't even know if Ultimate Osborn uses as much tech. Meanwhile Octavius has built a lot of insane weapons since the start of his run. Implementing everything including the Spider mech could give Superior an edge.

#25 Edited by SheenLantern (6469 posts) - - Show Bio

What's Ultimate Gob's best strength feat?

#26 Posted by VeganDiet (1029 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegandiet said:

This harms him? Where exactly are you getting that? He absorbed every bit of the fire Johnny put out, so no, Human Torch did not do all the major leg work. It was all Peter and Mary Jane for the last round.

So the part where Human Torches explosive attack would added no damage at all? Is that your point? It was clearly explosive force with Johnny being blown away as well alot of Johnny's showings have a explosive blast to them period.

Easy to overlook this I suppose >_>

Except GG obviously absorbed the attack. So, I didn't overlook anything. It's stated on panel by Peter and shown in the artwork that GG absorbed the attack.

Online
#27 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@vegandiet said:

This harms him? Where exactly are you getting that? He absorbed every bit of the fire Johnny put out, so no, Human Torch did not do all the major leg work. It was all Peter and Mary Jane for the last round.

So the part where Human Torches explosive attack would added no damage at all? Is that your point? It was clearly explosive force with Johnny being blown away as well alot of Johnny's showings have a explosive blast to them period.

Easy to overlook this I suppose >_>

Except GG obviously absorbed the attack. So, I didn't overlook anything. It's stated on panel by Peter and shown in the artwork that GG absorbed the attack.

He absorb the fire, we see this, were does Absorbing the Explosive force come in? If he work that way the Exploding Truck would not have KOed him.

Your clearly wrong here.....

#28 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

What's Ultimate Gob's best strength feat?

Well he one Shotted Spider Man, Over Power Spiderman, over power Doc Ock Tentacles (Which have over power Spider mans strength all the time), and more.

Durability

Norman's biggest asset.

I really felt the need to add these in here. As they were by far the 2 biggest foes in Pete's life. So large in life, that both could not be at the end of the Death of Spider Man arc. Doc Ock lost the coin toss :).

Scan 1: Attack Choppers with Anti Vehicle Machine Guns.

Scan 2-3: Shot by Anti Vehicle Machine Guns again. Again not even Phased!

Scan 4: GG with a special collar that lobotomizes any person trying to use their powers. Added to this he was being hit with Tranqs and ends with a Giant Man Pimp Hand!

Scan 5: Assault Rifle fire.

Scan 6-8: GG free falls from a Sky Scraper. Look at the damage he does here when he hits. He simply bounces off and turns back into Norman to keep off SHIELD's radar.

Scan 9-12: GG gets up twice from all out Human Torch Nova attacks.

Scan 13: Hit by a Missile in the face. Still chugging.

Scan 14: GG is shot to hell by SHIELD. He is also shot with special Gentic Disrupting guns by Spidey and Shadow Cat. None of this phases Osborn.

Scan 15: Stabbed in the spine by a piece of metal, no probs, though seeing his attacker as his son makes the formula unstable after this, the attack itself meant nothing.

Scan 16-17: Hit by 9 ton truck hauling it! No probs for GG.

Scan 18-19: Attacked by Hawkeye, Captain America, Iron Man, and Nick Furry at the same time. This was after his Genetics was in flux from a Iron Man special prep beam. Still lives with all this.

Scan 20: GG tanks with ease Iron Man Repulsar Blast.

GG gets hit by SHIELD's Hulk Buster Unit repeatedly as well Anti Tank Missiles. All to no affect.

Strength and Speed

We know GG is insane Strong.

Scan 1-2: GG sees Harry on TV calling him out. Rages out and KOs Spider Man in one blow!

Scan 3: Easily catches and holds the Spider Man Strong Tentacles of Doc Ock.

Scan 4-5: Smashes through Doc Ock's Tentacles that easily overpower Peter.

Scan 6-8: Beats Hob Goblin to Death with a few blows!

Scan 9: Overpowers Peter with ease.

Scan 10: Craters the earth with a haymaker.

This applies to leaping as well.

Scan 1-3: Insane fast leap feats to get around the area and catch Spidey in the air.

Scan 4-5: Jumps from the Ocean Floor to the Copters in the air!

Scan 6-7: Jumps onto a airborne SHIELD Helicarrier above a city!

#29 Posted by VeganDiet (1029 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegandiet said:

@cadencev2 said:

@vegandiet said:

This harms him? Where exactly are you getting that? He absorbed every bit of the fire Johnny put out, so no, Human Torch did not do all the major leg work. It was all Peter and Mary Jane for the last round.

So the part where Human Torches explosive attack would added no damage at all? Is that your point? It was clearly explosive force with Johnny being blown away as well alot of Johnny's showings have a explosive blast to them period.

Easy to overlook this I suppose >_>

Except GG obviously absorbed the attack. So, I didn't overlook anything. It's stated on panel by Peter and shown in the artwork that GG absorbed the attack.

He absorb the fire, we see this, were does Absorbing the Explosive force come in? If he work that way the Exploding Truck would not have KOed him.

Your clearly wrong here.....

Maybe he was KO-ed by the 9 ton truck being repeatedly slammed into him?

There was never any explosive force mentioned. Osborn is not treated as if he was weakened in the slightest by what the Torch did, and Peter's comments about him absorbing it all confirms this.

You're the one who's wrong. Show me a shred of evidence that states the Goblin was weakened by the Torch's attack here.

Online
#30 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegandiet: Show me evidence any attack hurts him.

He was never harmed or dropped by any other attack. The first scans of HT he burned Goblin and used Explosive force that Temporary KOed GG.

Then he does the same again with the same Explosive Force of his Fire Plasma to GG. We know he used Explosive force because we seen for a fact Human Torch being blown away at a angle instead of a dead drop.

Did it superbly harm GG? Maybe not, it was damage added regardless along with the first major Torch attack. With Mary Jane hitting him. With Spidey truck slams. With the truck explosion.

To say the explosive blast of Torch did nothing is foolish and very showing of your inability to see the facts that I layed out 3 times now.

Im sure you will simply reply with a simple "Nah Uh" post in reply, so I guess we will agree to disagree on how wrong you are.

#31 Posted by Shawnbaby (10641 posts) - - Show Bio

@mezmero said:

I might go with Ultimate Goblin on this one. Superior has yet to show any instances of turning the tables on a super strong foe without prep. The strongest dudes he's defeated are mostly in Avenging and Team-Up but he had support from other heroes in those instances. We need to establish equipment parameters to make it definitive win. I don't even know if Ultimate Osborn uses as much tech. Meanwhile Octavius has built a lot of insane weapons since the start of his run. Implementing everything including the Spider mech could give Superior an edge.

O rly?

Punches Scorpions Jaw off. Scorpion is Stronger than 616 Spider-Man (and Stronger than Ultimate Goblin). This is during Ock's first fight as Spider-Man.

Ultimate Osborn has impressive showings against Ultimate Parker...but Ultimate Parker is not as strong, not as experienced, and not as brutal as SpOck. Ultimate Parker is the Inferior Spider-Man.

SpOck takes a strong majority here 8/10

#32 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

O rly?

Punches Scorpions Jaw off. Scorpion is Stronger than 616 Spider-Man (and Stronger than Ultimate Goblin). This is during Ock's first fight as Spider-Man.

Ultimate Osborn has impressive showings against Ultimate Parker...but Ultimate Parker is not as strong, not as experienced, and not as brutal as SpOck. Ultimate Parker is the Inferior Spider-Man.

SpOck takes a strong majority here 8/10

So all the showings of GG Durability and Strength is totaly one sided by Superior SM?

Durability

Norman's biggest asset.

I really felt the need to add these in here. As they were by far the 2 biggest foes in Pete's life. So large in life, that both could not be at the end of the Death of Spider Man arc. Doc Ock lost the coin toss :).

Scan 1: Attack Choppers with Anti Vehicle Machine Guns.

Scan 2-3: Shot by Anti Vehicle Machine Guns again. Again not even Phased!

Scan 4: GG with a special collar that lobotomizes any person trying to use their powers. Added to this he was being hit with Tranqs and ends with a Giant Man Pimp Hand!

Scan 5: Assault Rifle fire.

Scan 6-8: GG free falls from a Sky Scraper. Look at the damage he does here when he hits. He simply bounces off and turns back into Norman to keep off SHIELD's radar.

Scan 9-12: GG gets up twice from all out Human Torch Nova attacks.

Scan 13: Hit by a Missile in the face. Still chugging.

Scan 14: GG is shot to hell by SHIELD. He is also shot with special Gentic Disrupting guns by Spidey and Shadow Cat. None of this phases Osborn.

Scan 15: Stabbed in the spine by a piece of metal, no probs, though seeing his attacker as his son makes the formula unstable after this, the attack itself meant nothing.

Scan 16-17: Hit by 9 ton truck hauling it! No probs for GG.

Scan 18-19: Attacked by Hawkeye, Captain America, Iron Man, and Nick Furry at the same time. This was after his Genetics was in flux from a Iron Man special prep beam. Still lives with all this.

Scan 20: GG tanks with ease Iron Man Repulsar Blast.

GG gets hit by SHIELD's Hulk Buster Unit repeatedly as well Anti Tank Missiles. All to no affect.

Strength and Speed

We know GG is insane Strong.

Scan 1-2: GG sees Harry on TV calling him out. Rages out and KOs Spider Man in one blow!

Scan 3: Easily catches and holds the Spider Man Strong Tentacles of Doc Ock.

Scan 4-5: Smashes through Doc Ock's Tentacles that easily overpower Peter.

Scan 6-8: Beats Hob Goblin to Death with a few blows!

Scan 9: Overpowers Peter with ease.

Scan 10: Craters the earth with a haymaker.

This applies to leaping as well.

Scan 1-3: Insane fast leap feats to get around the area and catch Spidey in the air.

Scan 4-5: Jumps from the Ocean Floor to the Copters in the air!

Scan 6-7: Jumps onto a airborne SHIELD Helicarrier above a city!

He will just... one punch through all that..... Doubt. Lets be realistic and not play this game of "616 is always superior to Ultimate Comics" game.

#33 Posted by Wolverine08 (41113 posts) - - Show Bio

Still SSM.

#34 Edited by VeganDiet (1029 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegandiet: Show me evidence any attack hurts him.

He was never harmed or dropped by any other attack. The first scans of HT he burned Goblin and used Explosive force that Temporary KOed GG.

Then he does the same again with the same Explosive Force of his Fire Plasma to GG. We know he used Explosive force because we seen for a fact Human Torch being blown away at a angle instead of a dead drop.

Did it superbly harm GG? Maybe not, it was damage added regardless along with the first major Torch attack. With Mary Jane hitting him. With Spidey truck slams. With the truck explosion.

To say the explosive blast of Torch did nothing is foolish and very showing of your inability to see the facts that I layed out 3 times now.

Im sure you will simply reply with a simple "Nah Uh" post in reply, so I guess we will agree to disagree on how wrong you are.

You said earlier that HT's attack did the lion's share of the damage in that fight. Have you changed your mind now?

Human Torch did all the major leg work vs Goblin with Mary Jane and Peter adding the final blows.

So explosive force that didn't significantly harm a human teenager or even knock him that far away did significant damage to the Green Goblin?

I'd like to add that before HT's attack Green Goblin was missing a horn and had a broken jaw. Afterwards, his horn had regrown and his jaw was fine. Looks more like the fire attack healed him than harmed him, honestly.

Peter draws blood with one blow before the Human Torch's assault. Norman is on his knees and unable to follow for a few panels after this. This is in reply to you asking for evidence of him being hurt before HT's attack.

You haven't laid out a single fact. You've posted baseless speculation and nothing more.

Again, show me proof that the explosive force did any damage to GG at all.

Hey, how about waiting for me to reply instead of being an ass about it and putting words in my mouth?

Online
#35 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Still SSM.

Thats cool. You also think Wolverine can beat Spider Man :P

Seriously though its a good match up with Ocks gear, Nanites, ect in his suit comes in. As well not holding back.

@shawnbaby:

Can Scorpion tank a missile to the face?

Green Goblin does. So is superior Spider Man's punch > Air to Land Missile?

Wont be no one shotting here.

#36 Edited by Shawnbaby (10641 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby said:

O rly?

Punches Scorpions Jaw off. Scorpion is Stronger than 616 Spider-Man (and Stronger than Ultimate Goblin). This is during Ock's first fight as Spider-Man.

Ultimate Osborn has impressive showings against Ultimate Parker...but Ultimate Parker is not as strong, not as experienced, and not as brutal as SpOck. Ultimate Parker is the Inferior Spider-Man.

SpOck takes a strong majority here 8/10

So all the showings of GG Durability and Strength is totaly one sided by Superior SM?

Durability

Norman's biggest asset.

I really felt the need to add these in here. As they were by far the 2 biggest foes in Pete's life. So large in life, that both could not be at the end of the Death of Spider Man arc. Doc Ock lost the coin toss :).

Scan 1: Attack Choppers with Anti Vehicle Machine Guns.

Scan 2-3: Shot by Anti Vehicle Machine Guns again. Again not even Phased!

Scan 4: GG with a special collar that lobotomizes any person trying to use their powers. Added to this he was being hit with Tranqs and ends with a Giant Man Pimp Hand!

Scan 5: Assault Rifle fire.

Scan 6-8: GG free falls from a Sky Scraper. Look at the damage he does here when he hits. He simply bounces off and turns back into Norman to keep off SHIELD's radar.

Scan 9-12: GG gets up twice from all out Human Torch Nova attacks.

Scan 13: Hit by a Missile in the face. Still chugging.

Scan 14: GG is shot to hell by SHIELD. He is also shot with special Gentic Disrupting guns by Spidey and Shadow Cat. None of this phases Osborn.

Scan 15: Stabbed in the spine by a piece of metal, no probs, though seeing his attacker as his son makes the formula unstable after this, the attack itself meant nothing.

Scan 16-17: Hit by 9 ton truck hauling it! No probs for GG.

Scan 18-19: Attacked by Hawkeye, Captain America, Iron Man, and Nick Furry at the same time. This was after his Genetics was in flux from a Iron Man special prep beam. Still lives with all this.

Scan 20: GG tanks with ease Iron Man Repulsar Blast.

GG gets hit by SHIELD's Hulk Buster Unit repeatedly as well Anti Tank Missiles. All to no affect.

Strength and Speed

We know GG is insane Strong.

Scan 1-2: GG sees Harry on TV calling him out. Rages out and KOs Spider Man in one blow!

Scan 3: Easily catches and holds the Spider Man Strong Tentacles of Doc Ock.

Scan 4-5: Smashes through Doc Ock's Tentacles that easily overpower Peter.

Scan 6-8: Beats Hob Goblin to Death with a few blows!

Scan 9: Overpowers Peter with ease.

Scan 10: Craters the earth with a haymaker.

This applies to leaping as well.

Scan 1-3: Insane fast leap feats to get around the area and catch Spidey in the air.

Scan 4-5: Jumps from the Ocean Floor to the Copters in the air!

Scan 6-7: Jumps onto a airborne SHIELD Helicarrier above a city!

He will just... one punch through all that..... Doubt. Lets be realistic and not play this game of "616 is always superior to Ultimate Comics" game.

Did I say he would one punch him?

Nope.

I just said he wins.

Deal with it.

#37 Posted by dondave (36561 posts) - - Show Bio

SpOck

#38 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: Thats fine, but it reads as your argument he will one punch him. Then made a bad joke how 616 is superior to Ultimate Spider Man Comic.

You know I was going to jump on that argument.

Deal with that!

#39 Posted by VeganDiet (1029 posts) - - Show Bio

And, I'm gonna side with GG here. Ock's arrogance and rather poor showings against actual formidable opponents makes me lean towards Gobby narrowly.

Online
#40 Posted by Shawnbaby (10641 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby: Thats fine, but it reads as your argument he will one punch him. Then made a bad joke how 616 is superior to Ultimate Spider Man Comic.

You know I was going to jump on that argument.

Deal with that!

It wasn't a joke.

#41 Posted by laflux (15388 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

While tanking a Missile is all well and good, Peter has fought and KO'ed people who can tank similar amounts of damage. Heck Peter even tanked a Massive Missile explosion while dying (due to the other), while in high altitude and being poisoned by the contents of the said missile. He did however, require medical attention afterwards.

I'm not saying SpOck wins, because I don't think he does in a random, but I just thought I'd point that out.

Online
#42 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegandiet:

You said earlier that HT's attack did the lion's share of the damage in that fight. Have you changed your mind now?

No, Human Torch has insane feats when going all out.

.

Burns out Dr. Doom's Insects.

Turns Glass into Gas with his heat.

Scan 1-2: Going Nova on Namor.

Scan 3-4: Going Nova on Hyperion.

That attack he did to Osborn was single handily the most brutal attack 10 fold! Followed up by a second one would have had affect Goblin in some way.

So explosive force that didn't significantly harm a human teenager or even knock him that far away did significant damage to the Green Goblin?

Torch also has insane Durability feats!

.

Smashed through a a freaking Cruiser size Ship! Still alive and well!

So yes, that would not damage that Teenage boy :)

I'd like to add that before HT's attack Green Goblin was missing a horn and had a broken jaw. Afterwards, his horn had regrown and his jaw was fine. Looks more like the fire attack healed him than harmed him, honestly.

..... Your right. That is something I never noticed before nor anyone ever pointed it out..... It could be Artist forgetting what he had drawn in details, his bio makes no mention of Healing via Fire. However he does have a very active Healing Factor. Maybe it regrew in that time.

I have no hard counter to that.

Peter draws blood with one blow before the Human Torch's assault. Norman is on his knees and unable to follow for a few panels after this. This is in reply to you asking for evidence of him being hurt before HT's attack.

You haven't laid out a single fact. You've posted baseless speculation and nothing more.

Again, show me proof that the explosive force did any damage to GG at all.

Hey, how about waiting for me to reply instead of being an ass about it and putting words in my mouth?

I think any damage is damage added. You get punched in the face by someone half your sized, it may not hurt then, but next day good chance you have a bruise showing where the damage was done regardless you felt it.

This is real world knowledge. GG is taking damage and took major damage from Torch first. This may have taxed his healing. Taking a second would not be any better regardless absorbing the fire aspect for added fire power.

Jashro said it best then. GG was written pretty low in Death of Spider Man. If he stays dead, that was his lowest showings over all. I rationalize it with Human Torch causing way to much damage from the get gos and thus doing the Leg Work. I still stand by that considering Human Torches attacks >>>>> Spider Man with a truck.

#43 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@shawnbaby:

@laflux: The point was Spock one shotting GG like he did Scorpion, which I thought he meant.

#44 Posted by VeganDiet (1029 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegandiet:

You said earlier that HT's attack did the lion's share of the damage in that fight. Have you changed your mind now?

No, Human Torch has insane feats when going all out.

.

Burns out Dr. Doom's Insects.

Turns Glass into Gas with his heat.

Scan 1-2: Going Nova on Namor.

Scan 3-4: Going Nova on Hyperion.

That attack he did to Osborn was single handily the most brutal attack 10 fold! Followed up by a second one would have had affect Goblin in some way.

So explosive force that didn't significantly harm a human teenager or even knock him that far away did significant damage to the Green Goblin?

Torch also has insane Durability feats!

.

Smashed through a a freaking Cruiser size Ship! Still alive and well!

So yes, that would not damage that Teenage boy :)

I'd like to add that before HT's attack Green Goblin was missing a horn and had a broken jaw. Afterwards, his horn had regrown and his jaw was fine. Looks more like the fire attack healed him than harmed him, honestly.

..... Your right. That is something I never noticed before nor anyone ever pointed it out..... It could be Artist forgetting what he had drawn in details, his bio makes no mention of Healing via Fire. However he does have a very active Healing Factor. Maybe it regrew in that time.

I have no hard counter to that.

Peter draws blood with one blow before the Human Torch's assault. Norman is on his knees and unable to follow for a few panels after this. This is in reply to you asking for evidence of him being hurt before HT's attack.

You haven't laid out a single fact. You've posted baseless speculation and nothing more.

Again, show me proof that the explosive force did any damage to GG at all.

Hey, how about waiting for me to reply instead of being an ass about it and putting words in my mouth?

I think any damage is damage added. You get punched in the face by someone half your sized, it may not hurt then, but next day good chance you have a bruise showing where the damage was done regardless you felt it.

This is real world knowledge. GG is taking damage and took major damage from Torch first. This may have taxed his healing. Taking a second would not be any better regardless absorbing the fire aspect for added fire power.

Jashro said it best then. GG was written pretty low in Death of Spider Man. If he stays dead, that was his lowest showings over all. I rationalize it with Human Torch causing way to much damage from the get gos and thus doing the Leg Work. I still stand by that considering Human Torches attacks >>>>> Spider Man with a truck.

So despite no damage being shown, despite the Green Goblin not looking hurt or even knocked back, despite him being able to fight just fine afterwards, and Peter talking as if the attack amped him, you're sticking with that attack doing the most damage?

Going nova on people that can't just absorb his attack doesn't really do anything. Especially considering Johnny was unconscious right before this?

Do you have any feats of him surviving such attacks when his fire was off or was drained? Legitimately asking. Do you really think Johnny is meant to be in the same league of durability as GG?

I'm not saying it actually healed him, as that's never been stated, but going by how his powers were constantly growing, I wouldn't be terribly surprised. I'd never try to pass it off as hard evidence; it's just something interesting to speculate on.

I'll agree he was written lower than before, but there is simply no evidence that HT's attack did much, or any damage, to Green Goblin the second time.

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#45 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegandiet:

So despite no damage being shown, despite the Green Goblin not looking hurt or even knocked back, despite him being able to fight just fine afterwards, and Peter talking as if the attack amped him, you're sticking with that attack doing the most damage?

Going nova on people that can't just absorb his attack doesn't really do anything. Especially considering Johnny was unconscious right before this?

Do you have any feats of him surviving such attacks when his fire was off or was drained? Legitimately asking. Do you really think Johnny is meant to be in the same league of durability as GG?

I'm not saying it actually healed him, as that's never been stated, but going by how his powers were constantly growing, I wouldn't be terribly surprised. I'd never try to pass it off as hard evidence; it's just something interesting to speculate on.

I'll agree he was written lower than before, but there is simply no evidence that HT's attack did much, or any damage, to Green Goblin the second time.

After how he KOed Goblin the first Nova around, I will say it should still added damage the second. The first attack did Goblin the most damage IMO. Second added to it. Simple as that to me.

Say what?

He feat against GG is near the same against Namor. He was Flamed up, explosion happen, and was Unflammed.Same thing I just posted with Namor. Flame Up, Hit Ship with force, flame down. As for HT Durability feats, he has very little feats to begin with. He has some good one however in Blunt Damage. Including being hit and slammed around by Iron Man suits, Namor, whole trees, ect....

I agree. It could be something there I never considered.

OK. Im convinced then. I still like to think the purpose of HT attacking Goblin first with all he had twice was to give a reason how he would been weak enough for Spidey to supposedly kill him.

#46 Posted by VeganDiet (1029 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegandiet:

So despite no damage being shown, despite the Green Goblin not looking hurt or even knocked back, despite him being able to fight just fine afterwards, and Peter talking as if the attack amped him, you're sticking with that attack doing the most damage?

Going nova on people that can't just absorb his attack doesn't really do anything. Especially considering Johnny was unconscious right before this?

Do you have any feats of him surviving such attacks when his fire was off or was drained? Legitimately asking. Do you really think Johnny is meant to be in the same league of durability as GG?

I'm not saying it actually healed him, as that's never been stated, but going by how his powers were constantly growing, I wouldn't be terribly surprised. I'd never try to pass it off as hard evidence; it's just something interesting to speculate on.

I'll agree he was written lower than before, but there is simply no evidence that HT's attack did much, or any damage, to Green Goblin the second time.

After how he KOed Goblin the first Nova around, I will say it should still added damage the second. The first attack did Goblin the most damage IMO. Second added to it. Simple as that to me.

Say what?

He feat against GG is near the same against Namor. He was Flamed up, explosion happen, and was Unflammed.Same thing I just posted with Namor. Flame Up, Hit Ship with force, flame down. As for HT Durability feats, he has very little feats to begin with. He has some good one however in Blunt Damage. Including being hit and slammed around by Iron Man suits, Namor, whole trees, ect....

I agree. It could be something there I never considered.

OK. Im convinced then. I still like to think the purpose of HT attacking Goblin first with all he had twice was to give a reason how he would been weak enough for Spidey to supposedly kill him.

What I was trying to say in that one point, was that going nova and damaging Namor or Hyperion doesn't exactly prove he could damage GG, as neither of them could simply absorb the flames as he did, as far as I know.

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#47 Posted by Wolverine08 (41113 posts) - - Show Bio

Someone should make a Scarlet Spider vs Ultimate Green Goblin thread.

#48 Edited by jashro44 (20804 posts) - - Show Bio
#49 Edited by Super_SoldierXII (6245 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

Someone should make a Scarlet Spider vs Ultimate Green Goblin thread.

No ... nooooo!!!! I've had enough of Ult. Green Goblin fan craze for at least a few more weeks! Please ... Please no!

#50 Posted by Wolverine08 (41113 posts) - - Show Bio

@wolverine08 said:

Someone should make a Scarlet Spider vs Ultimate Green Goblin thread.

No ... nooooo!!!! I've had enough of Ult. Green Goblin fan craze for at least a few more weeks! Please ... Please no!

Oh no, I'm pretty sure Kaine will beat the sh%t out of Goblin. So I'll be satisfied :)