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#1 Posted by N0tS0An0nym0us (907 posts) - - Show Bio

Vs

Bloodlusted

No Prep Time

Character Version : Ultimate Gohan, Phoenix Force Cyclops

Death.... counts as win

Location .... Dorney Park

#2 Posted by God_Spawn (37682 posts) - - Show Bio

Realistically, Gohan at this point showed much more raw power than Cyclops. However, Cyclops was more versatile. But the problem with the Phoenix Five was they were very specific to actually do lasting damage. It took Wanda's hex magic, Iron Fist's chi, or them attacking each other to really slow them down. For example, Namor was beaten down by the Avengers but kept coming back thrashing them until Wanda's hex magic (the Phoenix's kryptonite) took him out. I'd say Gohan SHOULD beat him but how a very powerful attack would really affect him is puzzling to me.

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#3 Posted by Fernando072295REBORN (502 posts) - - Show Bio

with the entirety of the Phoenix Force? Or 20% like when he first got it? Even at 20% he already ridiculously powerful.

#4 Posted by VeganDiet (1028 posts) - - Show Bio

Gohan could probably win this.

#5 Posted by moywar700 (2775 posts) - - Show Bio

Cosmic Cyclops is hurt from iceman throwing snow at him.LAMO

Gohan can win this easily

#6 Edited by Bane_of_sith (2796 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably Gohan,,best part for me is that I could watch this fight,,I live right near Dorney park

#7 Posted by Dredeuced (5493 posts) - - Show Bio

Pretty sure Gohan stomps. Did PF Cyclops even have any particularly great showings?

#8 Edited by Dextersinister (5974 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops win for the same reason a lot of characters beat DBZ characters they use powers outside of raw muscle and energy blasts. Cyclops went out of his way to make sure he didn't kill anybody but when bloodlusted there is no reason he couldn't turn Gohan into a whale with legs or a pile of maggots.

@moywar700 said:

Cosmic Cyclops is hurt from iceman throwing snow at him.LAMO

Gohan can win this easily

The P5 could be knocked back or even have their bodies ripped apart but none of that had any lasting effect, only other hosts and those with a connection to the Phoenix did any lasting harm.

#9 Posted by arslan1234 (17 posts) - - Show Bio
@moywar700: correct gohan kills him 
#10 Posted by mk111 (3140 posts) - - Show Bio

Go Gohan!

#11 Posted by thefusescape (190 posts) - - Show Bio

Gohan of course. Rememberd he was from dbz therefore he cheapwins.

#12 Posted by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops easily tanks whatever Gohan throws at him.

#13 Posted by Dextersinister (5974 posts) - - Show Bio

The P5 have been hurt and taken physical damage from things that would have hurt them before from an arrow to the neck, knife to the heart, blown up, shattered etc but known of these things had any effect other than staggering them for a bit, they seemed to be beyond physical damage and the only thing that did any harm where people connected to the Phoenix.

Gohan cannot win and Cyke is more than capable of doing things that ignore durability from transmutation to telepathy.

#14 Posted by God_Spawn (37682 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops is still much slower than Gohan and his damage output is far less, but his versatility and Gohan's inability to provide the necessary type of damage is what hinders him here. Cyclops eventually turns him into whatever.

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#15 Posted by dondave (36407 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyclops ftw

#16 Posted by AncientSuperSaiyan (139 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Gohan crucifies Cyclops, who is nowhere near as strong as Super Buu. This is spite.

#17 Posted by God_Spawn (37682 posts) - - Show Bio

@AncientSuperSaiyan said:

Ultimate Gohan crucifies Cyclops, who is nowhere near as strong as Super Buu. This is spite.

Gohan can't take him down. He doesn't need to be at Super Buu's level.

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#18 Posted by AncientSuperSaiyan (139 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@AncientSuperSaiyan said:

Ultimate Gohan crucifies Cyclops, who is nowhere near as strong as Super Buu. This is spite.

Gohan can't take him down. He doesn't need to be at Super Buu's level.

Lol what? Scott will get his lenses busted. He has absolutely 0 feats to denote right now.

#19 Posted by BlueHope (360 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs said:

Cyclops easily tanks whatever Gohan throws at him.

Even a solar-sistem buster? He could do that in his teens and his power is far bigger in this version

#20 Posted by God_Spawn (37682 posts) - - Show Bio

@AncientSuperSaiyan said:

@god_spawn said:

@AncientSuperSaiyan said:

Ultimate Gohan crucifies Cyclops, who is nowhere near as strong as Super Buu. This is spite.

Gohan can't take him down. He doesn't need to be at Super Buu's level.

Lol what? Scott will get his lenses busted. He has absolutely 0 feats to denote right now.

Do you even know what it takes to actually down one of the Phoenix 5? This isn't regular Cyclops.

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#21 Edited by Dredeuced (5493 posts) - - Show Bio

@AncientSuperSaiyan: He was invincible to every type of damage that wasn't A: Phoenix Force or B: Hex magic. Gohan should be much too powerful for any of PF Cyclops' showings to harm him in the slightest, but if Thor couldn't hurt a 20% phoenix force guy, who knows what can.

PF Scott doesn't need his lenses. It's for show.

#22 Edited by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlueHope said:

@xeon1cs said:

Cyclops easily tanks whatever Gohan throws at him.

Even a solar-sistem buster? He could do that in his teens and his power is far bigger in this version

I don't think you understand how Phoenix 5 Cyclops functions.

Also Gohan was never a solar-system buster.

#23 Posted by God_Spawn (37682 posts) - - Show Bio

Gohan can be whatever level he wants. If he isn't bringing Wanda's chaos magic, another chunk of the Phoenix Force, or the type of chi Shao Lao produces, he can't down him. He can whoop him around, but not down him. Eventually Cyclops turns him into stone or whatever he feels like.

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#24 Edited by AncientSuperSaiyan (139 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

Gohan can be whatever level he wants. If he isn't bringing Wanda's chaos magic, another chunk of the Phoenix Force, or the type of chi Shao Lao produces, he can't down him. He can whoop him around, but not down him. Eventually Cyclops turns him into stone or whatever he feels like.

The Ultraforce and X-men already handled that kentucky fried bird. All forces who Ultimate Gohan will give a bad day singlehandedly. She isn't even in the Top 50 all-time Marvel superheroes or villians.

#25 Posted by God_Spawn (37682 posts) - - Show Bio

@AncientSuperSaiyan said:

@god_spawn said:

Gohan can be whatever level he wants. If he isn't bringing Wanda's chaos magic, another chunk of the Phoenix Force, or the type of chi Shao Lao produces, he can't down him. He can whoop him around, but not down him. Eventually Cyclops turns him into stone or whatever he feels like.

The Ultraforce and X-men already handled that kentucky fried bird. All forces who Ultimate Gohan will give a bad day singlehandedly. She isn't even in the Top 50 all-time Marvel superheroes or villians.

And you bring nothing new. Gohan loses since he doesn't have the way to put down Phoenix Cyclops. He will just knock him around before getting transmuted.

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#26 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread is kind of unfair, lol. Phoenix Force Cyclops can only be taken down by like 3 or 4 things. And somebody without a more versatile skill set than just hypersonic h2h + energy projection won't have a chance of winning.

#27 Posted by Hksaru (463 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs said:

@BlueHope said:

@xeon1cs said:

Cyclops easily tanks whatever Gohan throws at him.

Even a solar-sistem buster? He could do that in his teens and his power is far bigger in this version

I don't think you understand how Phoenix 5 Cyclops functions.

Also Gohan was never a solar-system buster.

someone never watched DBZ

#28 Posted by Shawnbaby (10616 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hksaru said:

@xeon1cs said:

@BlueHope said:

@xeon1cs said:

Cyclops easily tanks whatever Gohan throws at him.

Even a solar-sistem buster? He could do that in his teens and his power is far bigger in this version

I don't think you understand how Phoenix 5 Cyclops functions.

Also Gohan was never a solar-system buster.

someone never watched DBZ

You say that like its a bad thing...

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#29 Posted by NeonGameWave (7712 posts) - - Show Bio

Gohan probably wins.

#30 Posted by AncientSuperSaiyan (139 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@AncientSuperSaiyan said:

@god_spawn said:

Gohan can be whatever level he wants. If he isn't bringing Wanda's chaos magic, another chunk of the Phoenix Force, or the type of chi Shao Lao produces, he can't down him. He can whoop him around, but not down him. Eventually Cyclops turns him into stone or whatever he feels like.

The Ultraforce and X-men already handled that kentucky fried bird. All forces who Ultimate Gohan will give a bad day singlehandedly. She isn't even in the Top 50 all-time Marvel superheroes or villians.

And you bring nothing new. Gohan loses since he doesn't have the way to put down Phoenix Cyclops. He will just knock him around before getting transmuted.

Well, lets see here. It's not actually the host who is the problem, so with that taken into account, I think it's safe to assume that Cyclops is expendable here since he isn't the primary host and does not possess the full power of the Phoenix Force, so ordiinarily he gets stomped, hastily.

The op did not state if it is Phoenix Force as a seperate entity, therefore the victor is Ultimate Gohan.

#31 Posted by God_Spawn (37682 posts) - - Show Bio

@AncientSuperSaiyan: What is so hard to get? Gohan cannot down him. He can't rid Cyclops of the force has he has none of its weaknesses to exploit while Cyclops transmutes him.

Gohan does not have Shao Lao chi. Gohan does not have the Scarlet Witch's chaos magic. And Gohan does not have a chunk of the force. Without any of these, Gohan could lay into Cyclops as much as he wants and nothing will beat him.

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#32 Posted by FourthDeity (2234 posts) - - Show Bio

Gohan.

#33 Posted by AncientSuperSaiyan (139 posts) - - Show Bio

@AncientSuperSaiyan: What is so hard to get? Gohan cannot down him. He can't rid Cyclops of the force has he has none of its weaknesses to exploit while Cyclops transmutes him.

Gohan does not have Shao Lao chi. Gohan does not have the Scarlet Witch's chaos magic. And Gohan does not have a chunk of the force. Without any of these, Gohan could lay into Cyclops as much as he wants and nothing will beat him.

What planet are you living on? So in other words, what you're saying is that Ultimate Gohan cannot beat somebody like Ironfist. Thats what you're basically implying which is absolutely intellectually overwhelming.

#34 Posted by gettogaara (164 posts) - - Show Bio

Unfortunately I never finished the A vs X story line so I can't really comment on Phoenix Force Cyclops specifically. I dropped it after issue 4 because I wasn't enjoying it. With that said, doesn't the Phoenix force absorb energy such as ki? I mean sure Ultimate Gohan is above SS3 Goku in terms of power and is possibly the strongest non fused character in DBZ but if his ki attacks have no effect........

#35 Posted by God_Spawn (37682 posts) - - Show Bio

@AncientSuperSaiyan: No, how are you even coming to that conclusion? What I have said and have been saying again and again and again is that there are only 3 things that actually were proven capable of putting the Phoenix 5 down. Wanda's chaos magic, the chi Shao Lao produces, or another chunk of the Phoenix Force. That was all that was shown capable of beating the Phoenix Five. Gohan has none of these. His type of chi or ki, whatever you wanna call it, won't do anything but throw Cyclops around. His physical strikes will do nothing but throw Cyclops around. Cyclops does have options around Gohan's durability with things the P5 used like transmutation. Anyway you cut it, Gohan loses here since he is not packing the right type of firepower to put him down.

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#36 Edited by AncientSuperSaiyan (139 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@AncientSuperSaiyan: No, how are you even coming to that conclusion? What I have said and have been saying again and again and again is that there are only 3 things that actually were proven capable of putting the Phoenix 5 down. Wanda's chaos magic, the chi Shao Lao produces, or another chunk of the Phoenix Force. That was all that was shown capable of beating the Phoenix Five. Gohan has none of these. His type of chi or ki, whatever you wanna call it, won't do anything but throw Cyclops around. His physical strikes will do nothing but throw Cyclops around. Cyclops does have options around Gohan's durability with things the P5 used like transmutation. Anyway you cut it, Gohan loses here since he is not packing the right type of firepower to put him down.

Ah. So now you're implying that Shou Lao has stronger ki or firepower than Ultimate Gohan since he is the only known entity to have beaten the Phoenix iin the past? Can you name the people who also beat Shou Lao as a test? You're still not making any sense here.

Do you disagree that a non-super saiyan Kid Gohan beats both Shou Lao, Orson, Lei Kang and Ironfist with stomp-worthy ease? Remember, all three possess the "chi" of Shou Lou.

#37 Posted by God_Spawn (37682 posts) - - Show Bio

@AncientSuperSaiyan: I never implied as such. I said it was a specific type.

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#38 Edited by AncientSuperSaiyan (139 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@AncientSuperSaiyan: I never implied as such. I said it was a specific type.

In that case, Ironfist and Thunderer should've stomped Cyclops when Hope was being a pussy then should they have not?

Actually, you did say Gohan didn't possess the right type of firepower to murder Scott in any occasion which is false. But evidently neither did entities who possessed Shou Laou's ki or Shou Lao himself, who Ultimate Gohan would suffocate on the battlefield. There is nothing quasi-magical about the specifics of the Ironfist either, he is just a boosted superhuman martial artist who is now immortal if I'm not mistaken. Thats basically it, he's immortal. Boo-hoo.

#39 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@FourthDeity said:

Gohan.

Obviously you did not read the OP, lol.

#40 Posted by God_Spawn (37682 posts) - - Show Bio

@AncientSuperSaiyan: No, because they weren't powerful enough. They had the necessary type of chi to down him, but not enough to do it. Cyclops reached a level that prevented. He also reached a level that Scarlet Witch's best shot didn't do much either. Hope used a combo of the powers then uppercutted Cyclops to the moon and took him out for awhile though. This isn't a Gohan stomps who or Iron Fist is stronger than Gohan (cause he is not in his league) but the type of powers they had. Their energy was the Phoenix's kryptonite. But depending on how powerful Cyclops or the P5 got, the effects lessened and lessened. But none of that makes a difference here since Gohan does not have either or a chunk of the phoenix force.

And I'd watch the language please.

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#41 Edited by AncientSuperSaiyan (139 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@AncientSuperSaiyan: Their energy was the Phoenix's kryptonite.

Is their any smoking-gun proof of this? What is it about that specific chi (or ki) that warrants the pf's kryptonite? And from the fight tht took place, their energy actually didn't do anything, even from the originator who beat the phoenix prior. As you said it's just chi though right?

But in any case, not that it would have to boil down to it but the dragonballs can be used to enhance Gohan into using Phoenix Force, since Hope was able to tap into it or using whatever chi to quell it, as Gohan is an enormously stronger host of power.

No, because they weren't powerful enough. They had the necessary type of chi to down him, but not enough to do it

Gohan is immensly stronger than the former two, with or without their type of energy.

#42 Posted by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

@Hksaru said:

@xeon1cs said:

@BlueHope said:

@xeon1cs said:

Cyclops easily tanks whatever Gohan throws at him.

Even a solar-sistem buster? He could do that in his teens and his power is far bigger in this version

I don't think you understand how Phoenix 5 Cyclops functions.

Also Gohan was never a solar-system buster.

someone never watched DBZ

I have, and read the manga, and nowhere outside of ABC logic and a hyperbole has Gohan ever been considered a solar system buster. Good try though.

#43 Edited by God_Spawn (37682 posts) - - Show Bio

@AncientSuperSaiyan: Because it was mentioned multiple times throughout the event. And Gohan cannot use the dragonballs. They aren't standard gear nor does he get prep to use them so the point is moot. And Hope is able to mimic powers, hence why she was able to use it.

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#44 Posted by AncientSuperSaiyan (139 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@AncientSuperSaiyan: Because it was mentioned multiple times throughout the event. And Gohan cannot use the dragonballs. They aren't standard gear nor does he get prep to use them so the point is moot. And Hope is able to mimic powers, hence why she was able to use it.

So you're telling me that a teenage mutant girl was able to copypasta the exact same powers of a multi-verse threat for a second and then bfr the host? Really? Sorry, but Ultimate Gohan takes this. I'm still waiting for proof of their "special chi" that is like kryptonite to the phoenix. We don't even need scans, just quotes.

#45 Posted by TheDEMON! (468 posts) - - Show Bio

im going with cyclops after a tough fight.

#46 Posted by uberhikari (2474 posts) - - Show Bio

@AncientSuperSaiyan said:

@god_spawn said:

@AncientSuperSaiyan: Because it was mentioned multiple times throughout the event. And Gohan cannot use the dragonballs. They aren't standard gear nor does he get prep to use them so the point is moot. And Hope is able to mimic powers, hence why she was able to use it.

So you're telling me that a teenage mutant girl was able to copypasta the exact same powers of a multi-verse threat for a second and then bfr the host? Really? Sorry, but Ultimate Gohan takes this. I'm still waiting for proof of their "special chi" that is like kryptonite to the phoenix. We don't even need scans, just quotes.

So because you don't like the plot device that was used to defeat someone, Ultimate Gohan wins? LOL! That's rich.

#47 Edited by AncientSuperSaiyan (139 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari said:

@AncientSuperSaiyan said:

@god_spawn said:

@AncientSuperSaiyan: Because it was mentioned multiple times throughout the event. And Gohan cannot use the dragonballs. They aren't standard gear nor does he get prep to use them so the point is moot. And Hope is able to mimic powers, hence why she was able to use it.

So you're telling me that a teenage mutant girl was able to copypasta the exact same powers of a multi-verse threat for a second and then bfr the host? Really? Sorry, but Ultimate Gohan takes this. I'm still waiting for proof of their "special chi" that is like kryptonite to the phoenix. We don't even need scans, just quotes.

So because you don't like the plot device that was used to defeat someone, Ultimate Gohan wins? LOL! That's rich.

No it's because it took a brief uppercut to shut him down. This is actually an easy win, the mod in here is just making it up to be technical by making stuff about different types of chi or/and the phoenix as a single entity. But I'm satisfied you booth agree that Cyclops, who is the host, is eligable to being stomped out and while true, yes a host can be killed.

#48 Posted by God_Spawn (37682 posts) - - Show Bio

@AncientSuperSaiyan: No. She copied the abilities of the Scarlet Witch's hex magic and Iron Fist's chi. Both powers that were effective against the Phoenix Force and yes, BFR the host. No way was anyone multiversal in threat. And because Hope has a powerset that enabled her to take advantage of weaknesses to the Phoenix Force, Gohan stomps? That is no excuse. And the quotes I believe are after Cyclops got shot by Shao Lao Cyclops "That...hurt?" Because nothing else was hurting them save for Wanda's chaos magic and the force itself in an attempt to take it from someone else. The narration goes on to state "Shao Lao. The undying source of the power of the K'un Lun. Carrier of the Iron Fist endlessly reborn." So Shao Lao's energy was a specific type of power. "And one legend says Shao Lao once defeated the force itself." So if the legend is true, the type of energy that Shao Lao produced was enough to beat the Phoenix. But, Cyclops was too powerful at this point and ended up defeating the dragon too.

So that's all the issue says about it. Shao Lao has his own energy and it was capable of harming Cyclops and judging by Cyclops' reaction, not much else was hurting him and he also walked through SW's hex blast in that issue and it wasn't until Hope mixed both that she was capable of downing him.

So again, Gohan does not have the specific type of chi Shao Lao has so he loses.

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#49 Posted by God_Spawn (37682 posts) - - Show Bio

@AncientSuperSaiyan: I'm making stuff up? How about you actually read the event then. You figure it out yourself.

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#50 Posted by FourthDeity (2234 posts) - - Show Bio

@uberhikari said:

@FourthDeity said:

Gohan.

Obviously you did not read the OP, lol.

lol...