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#101 Posted by jashro44 (19118 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: Another thing I forgot to mention is about the shield toss, how fast does ultimate cap throw it? If he misses or if Slade deflects or catches it he could get disarmed and then he would be at a disadvantage.

#102 Posted by jamesisaacs (213 posts) - - Show Bio

When Thor wailed on Hulk with Mjolnir, he dislocated Hulk's jaw, broke his ribs, and punctured a lung. Far more damage than Cap inflicted, yet Cap's assault still had Hulk dazed for longer then Thor's. That's because Cap's hits, though lacking in power, were skillful and focused enough to keep Hulk off balance and confuse him.

I'm sorry what? Caps "focused" shield bash had more of an effect on the hulk than a clout from Thor's hammer? Did you really type that sober? You couldn't be more wrong...

#103 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Im glad you made a point of Slade suppose being smarter and more tactical than Cap. I disagree.

Cap Brain is supposedly super Human as well.

Scan 1: With no training he figures how to hack Computers of Governments and SHIELD databases after a short year of defrosted from WW2.

Scan 2: Like with Hulk he has constantly with no prep form plans after plans to beat Red Skull with the Cosmic Cube, Avengers, Hulk, The Vampire Hordes, Nerd Hulk, and many more with on the fly tactics and No Prep.

Scan 3: Nick Fury acknowledges the Super Soldier Serum allows Cap to learn faster than a Computer.

Soooo..... I dont see Slade as being more Tactical or Smarter.

#104 Posted by jashro44 (19118 posts) - - Show Bio
#105 Edited by SlimJ87D (9241 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@slimj87d: Another thing I forgot to mention is about the shield toss, how fast does ultimate cap throw it? If he misses or if Slade deflects or catches it he could get disarmed and then he would be at a disadvantage.

I'm not sure, 616 Cap can throw it faster than a missile and fast enough to go through vehicles if he's not holding back. Ultimate Cap doesn't really hold back. I'm heading out to a wedding, but I'm sure @cadencev2: has some shield throwing feats of him destroying objects with them.

#106 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

@jashro44 said:

@slimj87d: Another thing I forgot to mention is about the shield toss, how fast does ultimate cap throw it? If he misses or if Slade deflects or catches it he could get disarmed and then he would be at a disadvantage.

I'm not sure, 616 Cap can throw it faster than a missile and fast enough to go through vehicles if he's not holding back. Ultimate Cap doesn't really hold back. I'm heading out to a wedding, but I'm sure @cadencev2: has some shield throwing feats of him destroying objects with them.

Back in Page 2.

Here they are again.

Shield Throws.

#107 Edited by SlimJ87D (9241 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: The steel cable with a car rim and helicopter rotor puts that on par with 616 Cap. I would say that is going almost as fast as a bullet.

Steel cable would flex if it was thrown too slow, it would have to go really fast specially since rims are not sharp. Also the height he had to throw it.

Hitting the helicopter rotor, same thing. It would have to go very fast.

#108 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d: Also for future Knowledge. This whole debate of Caps Shield being Adamntium is BS.

As seen Pym made the Shield for Cap in Ultimates #2. The only thing said about it was it was Unbreakable. Caps Shield is broken by Valkery's Magic Sword, Thor has MANY Asgardian Dawrven Black Smith Weapons as seen in Ultimates 3. That is what Mijolnir is made of. Only Mijolnir is Enchanted with Odin Force.

Caps current Shield is as tough as Thor Hammer now.

#109 Edited by krauser99 (820 posts) - - Show Bio
@cadencev2 said:

@jashro44: Im glad you made a point of Slade suppose being smarter and more tactical than Cap. I disagree.

Cap Brain is supposedly super Human as well.

Scan 1: With no training he figures how to hack Computers of Governments and SHIELD databases after a short year of defrosted from WW2.

Scan 2: Like with Hulk he has constantly with no prep form plans after plans to beat Red Skull with the Cosmic Cube, Avengers, Hulk, The Vampire Hordes, Nerd Hulk, and many more with on the fly tactics and No Prep.

Scan 3: Nick Fury acknowledges the Super Soldier Serum allows Cap to learn faster than a Computer.

Soooo..... I dont see Slade as being more Tactical or Smarter.

I agree Cap is very smart and gifted as he has statements that he is very smart. But there is a slight difference with your references. As with Slade his mind is actually stated to be enhanced or boosted by his enhancement. Nick Stated the Cap learns faster then a computer but he did not reference the SSS doing that though. Do you have a actual reference that the SSS boosted Cap's mind? Not saying that he's not but a reference specifically particular like this would help a lot.

about this ad

#110 Posted by krauser99 (820 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

@nickzambuto:

Armor wise they are also about equal as parts of Ultimate Cap's suit is made of vibranium, specifically the breast plate.

Nice I never knew Ult Cap used vibranium. You wouldn't happen to have a scan reference for that so I could have by any chance? Or the issue title/number?

#111 Edited by SlimJ87D (9241 posts) - - Show Bio
#112 Posted by Alexander505 (2144 posts) - - Show Bio

Cap FTW

#114 Posted by nickzambuto (12639 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

When Thor wailed on Hulk with Mjolnir, he dislocated Hulk's jaw, broke his ribs, and punctured a lung. Far more damage than Cap inflicted, yet Cap's assault still had Hulk dazed for longer then Thor's. That's because Cap's hits, though lacking in power, were skillful and focused enough to keep Hulk off balance and confuse him.

I'm sorry what? Caps "focused" shield bash had more of an effect on the hulk than a clout from Thor's hammer? Did you really type that sober? You couldn't be more wrong...

You must not know a lot about fighting. I'll repeat what I said before; Captain America did not injure Hulk more then Thor, rather, Cap's bombardment to all of Hulk's weak points disoriented him, which is why Hulk laughed at Thor but was genuinely stunned by Cap.

#115 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jamesisaacs said:

@nickzambuto said:

When Thor wailed on Hulk with Mjolnir, he dislocated Hulk's jaw, broke his ribs, and punctured a lung. Far more damage than Cap inflicted, yet Cap's assault still had Hulk dazed for longer then Thor's. That's because Cap's hits, though lacking in power, were skillful and focused enough to keep Hulk off balance and confuse him.

I'm sorry what? Caps "focused" shield bash had more of an effect on the hulk than a clout from Thor's hammer? Did you really type that sober? You couldn't be more wrong...

You must not know a lot about fighting. I'll repeat what I said before; Captain America did not injure Hulk more then Thor, rather, Cap's bombardment to all of Hulk's weak points disoriented him, which is why Hulk laughed at Thor but was genuinely stunned by Cap.

Pretty much.

Batman takes down guys leagues ahead of his stats. Dare Devil does the same. So........ why cant Cap?

#116 Posted by nickzambuto (12639 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@jamesisaacs said:

@nickzambuto said:

When Thor wailed on Hulk with Mjolnir, he dislocated Hulk's jaw, broke his ribs, and punctured a lung. Far more damage than Cap inflicted, yet Cap's assault still had Hulk dazed for longer then Thor's. That's because Cap's hits, though lacking in power, were skillful and focused enough to keep Hulk off balance and confuse him.

I'm sorry what? Caps "focused" shield bash had more of an effect on the hulk than a clout from Thor's hammer? Did you really type that sober? You couldn't be more wrong...

You must not know a lot about fighting. I'll repeat what I said before; Captain America did not injure Hulk more then Thor, rather, Cap's bombardment to all of Hulk's weak points disoriented him, which is why Hulk laughed at Thor but was genuinely stunned by Cap.

Pretty much.

Batman takes down guys leagues ahead of his stats. Dare Devil does the same. So........ why cant Cap?

Because he's Ultimate and nobody cares about Ultimate.

#117 Posted by krauser99 (820 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d said:

@krauser99: its in his bio from my memory

You mean hand book bio? Or is this a comic book bio?

#118 Edited by jamesisaacs (213 posts) - - Show Bio

@jamesisaacs said:

@nickzambuto said:

When Thor wailed on Hulk with Mjolnir, he dislocated Hulk's jaw, broke his ribs, and punctured a lung. Far more damage than Cap inflicted, yet Cap's assault still had Hulk dazed for longer then Thor's. That's because Cap's hits, though lacking in power, were skillful and focused enough to keep Hulk off balance and confuse him.

I'm sorry what? Caps "focused" shield bash had more of an effect on the hulk than a clout from Thor's hammer? Did you really type that sober? You couldn't be more wrong...

You must not know a lot about fighting. I'll repeat what I said before; Captain America did not injure Hulk more then Thor, rather, Cap's bombardment to all of Hulk's weak points disoriented him, which is why Hulk laughed at Thor but was genuinely stunned by Cap.

The hulk has weak points? A super soldier managed to topple the hulk without PIS?

#119 Posted by krauser99 (820 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Yeah he did. He put him on his but long enough to nearly inject the serium, more than Thor, Giantman, or ironman were capable of.

It was impressive but I think Thor also gave a long winded speech before Hulk responded after he was down, as also Thor did much more physical damage then Steve, I think he boasted that he broke his ribs and other stuff IIRC. And Ironman had Hulk dazed for a bit and had him puking his guts out, long enough to send him flying. IMO Ult Cap mainly had him off balance and "slightly" affected physically but no where to the degree of puking or broken bones like Tony or Thor did.about this ad

#120 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@krauser99 said:

@cadencev2 said:

@jashro44: Yeah he did. He put him on his but long enough to nearly inject the serium, more than Thor, Giantman, or ironman were capable of.

It was impressive but I think Thor also gave a long winded speech before Hulk responded after he was down, as also Thor did much more physical damage then Steve, I think he boasted that he broke his ribs and other stuff IIRC. And Ironman had Hulk dazed for a bit and had him puking his guts out, long enough to send him flying. IMO Ult Cap mainly had him off balance and "slightly" affected physically but no where to the degree of puking or broken bones like Tony or Thor did.about this ad

So... your point... is.....

a) Thor who is 100+ toner put Hulk down a short time.

b) Iron Man used NON PHYSICAL FORCE cause Hulk to Puke through Sonics.

.... is more impressive than.....

c) Cap with 5 toner Strength and skill putting Hulk down?

Thanks for proving my point I guess.

#121 Edited by jashro44 (19118 posts) - - Show Bio

For the record when we say "put hulk down" we are talking about knocking ultimate hulk off balance? We aren't saying "ultimate cap can beat the thing because he knocked down the hulk" right? I'm just checking...

#122 Edited by krauser99 (820 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

For the record when we say "put hulk down" we are talking about knocking ultimate hulk off balance? We aren't saying "ultimate cap can beat the thing because he knocked down the hulk" right? I'm just checking...

I would hope that is the case. Ult Cap did that to Hulk more based on skill and experience as also Ult Hulk took a thrashing from Ult Ironman before he fought Steve.

To even try to suggest that Ult Cap punches hit with the force of a class 100 strike sounds rather odd, giving his feats and record.

@cadencev2 said:

@krauser99 said:

@cadencev2 said:

@jashro44: Yeah he did. He put him on his but long enough to nearly inject the serium, more than Thor, Giantman, or ironman were capable of.

It was impressive but I think Thor also gave a long winded speech before Hulk responded after he was down, as also Thor did much more physical damage then Steve, I think he boasted that he broke his ribs and other stuff IIRC. And Ironman had Hulk dazed for a bit and had him puking his guts out, long enough to send him flying. IMO Ult Cap mainly had him off balance and "slightly" affected physically but no where to the degree of puking or broken bones like Tony or Thor did.about this ad

So... your point... is.....

a) Thor who is 100+ toner put Hulk down a short time.

b) Iron Man used NON PHYSICAL FORCE cause Hulk to Puke through Sonics.

.... is more impressive than.....

c) Cap with 5 toner Strength and skill putting Hulk down?

Thanks for proving my point I guess.

Depends on your initial comparison. Cap's is only more impressive due to his timing, skill and experience. His is more impressive on that, while Thor/Ironman is more impressive base on power and damage considering what they did to Hulk.

#123 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
#124 Posted by Stronger (4948 posts) - - Show Bio

Deathstroke.

#125 Edited by adhd_assassin (524 posts) - - Show Bio

After both reading the entire thread and what i have seen from the two in comics, i give it to the captain

#126 Posted by Lady_Liberty (8211 posts) - - Show Bio

Does Deathstroke have his Nth metal armor?

#127 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Also there is proof now Ultimate Cap has Super Human Brain!

Bruce banner even says that is what the formula was design to do.

Steve was a average intelligence kid and gimp.

Fury further backing that Cap thinks and learns faster than a computer.

Know wonder he is a Tactical genius!

Bamsky!

#128 Edited by nickzambuto (12639 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

For the record when we say "put hulk down" we are talking about knocking ultimate hulk off balance? We aren't saying "ultimate cap can beat the thing because he knocked down the hulk" right? I'm just checking...

That's what I'm saying, yes.

I don't see it so much as a strength feat (besides busting Hulk's nose, which was more of an artist thing anyway) more a skill feat, that Cap could confuse and disorient the Hulk with a quick martial arts blitz.

#129 Posted by jashro44 (19118 posts) - - Show Bio

Does Deathstroke have his Nth metal armor?

Since this thread was made 5 years ago Slade would have the gear he had back then. So this is basically pre flashpoint slade.

#130 Posted by jashro44 (19118 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

For the record when we say "put hulk down" we are talking about knocking ultimate hulk off balance? We aren't saying "ultimate cap can beat the thing because he knocked down the hulk" right? I'm just checking...

That's what I'm saying, yes.

I don't see it so much as a strength feat (besides busting Hulk's nose, which was more of an artist thing anyway) more a skill feat, that Cap could confuse and disorient the Hulk with a quick martial arts blitz.

All right I agree with that.

#131 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@nickzambuto said:

@jashro44 said:

For the record when we say "put hulk down" we are talking about knocking ultimate hulk off balance? We aren't saying "ultimate cap can beat the thing because he knocked down the hulk" right? I'm just checking...

That's what I'm saying, yes.

I don't see it so much as a strength feat (besides busting Hulk's nose, which was more of an artist thing anyway) more a skill feat, that Cap could confuse and disorient the Hulk with a quick martial arts blitz.

All right I agree with that.

I do not agree and I have the freaking scans.

I can post right now.

Cap beating down Hulk.

Cap Beating Down Juggs with a Kick.

Cap beating down 100+ Captain Britain Suit SHIELD agents (While Tranqed)

Cap beating Juggs again with a face bash.

Cap ripping Warmachines arm off and taking him out of the game with fist and shield only!

Cap strengths vs Zarda's killing stroke.

Cap strength blocking and with standing Blood lusted Thor attack.

Cap strength wise standing up to Thors hits when Thor was Mind Control by Modi.

What now beaches!?

#132 Edited by jashro44 (19118 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: If your not serious with that last post then don't respond to this one....

I do not agree and I have the freaking scans.

I can post right now.

Cap beating down Hulk.

Cap knocked him off balance. This is something that 616 cap has done to 616 hulk. I don't think hulk was actually damaged. Yes there is blood in the scan but honestly I think thats just AIS (Artistic induced stupidity).

Cap Beating Down Juggs with a Kick.

I would call this feat PIS. Pretty much the same thing as 616 cap one shotting rhino with a kick IMO. I would be more excepting of it if he used his shield but a one kick is a little hard for me to believe.

Cap beating down 100+ Captain Britain Suit SHIELD agents (While Tranqed)

Do these captain Brittans have durability feats? Regardless I doubt they are as durable as ultimate hulk...

Cap beating Juggs again with a face bash.

This one I can except because cap did use his shield. All though I still think the dinosaur played a role. And Ultimate juggernaut isn't as durable as ultimate hulk.

Cap ripping Warmachines arm off and taking him out of the game with fist and shield only!

Again I can except it since cap used his shield. All though warmachine isn't as durable as ultimate hulk.

Cap strengths vs Zarda's killing stroke.

Cap strength blocking and with standing Blood lusted Thor attack.

Cap strength wise standing up to Thors hits when Thor was Mind Control by Modi.

Did cap use his shield here? IIRC Caps shield is made of asgardian metal so its unique properties can play a role.

What now beaches!?

..............................................................

#133 Edited by Lady_Liberty (8211 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@lady_liberty said:

Does Deathstroke have his Nth metal armor?

Since this thread was made 5 years ago Slade would have the gear he had back then. So this is basically pre flashpoint slade.

Hrm. Based off what I've seen in this thread I'd have to give Captain America the durability edge when Slade doesn't have his armor.

#134 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

If your not serious with that last post then don't respond to this one....

Oh I was dead serious.

Cap knocked him off balance. This is something that 616 cap has done to 616 hulk. I don't think hulk was actually damaged. Yes there is blood in the scan but honestly I think thats just AIS (Artistic induced stupidity).

Knock off Balance does not Equal or Explain Hulk laying out and not moving on the ground for a solid 5-6 seconds!

Also this feat is not a freaking big deal when Cap has shown Consistent strength feats of equal caliber.

I would call this feat PIS. Pretty much the same thing as 616 cap one shotting rhino with a kick IMO. I would be more excepting of it if he used his shield but a one kick is a little hard for me to believe.

Except it is CONSISTENT with his feats..... Also how is it PIS!? Tell me how strong Cap is. Tell Me! Cuase it is not definitive stated ANYWHERE period. He could be a 20 toner. All we have is his insane striking feats feats.

Do these captain Brittans have durability feats? Regardless I doubt they are as durable as ultimate hulk...

Yes they have feats. Carrying Nukes, and the Liberation Copies (Which showed equal to SHIELD suits) and two Liberation Suits pushed the Statue of Liberty down.

Wow look at that, The Shield and Liberator Suits fly and have Super Strength.

Now read the scan. Class 3 Strength. What does that mean? 300 pounds? 3 Tons? 3 Kilograms? 30 tons? 300 Tons?

2 Guys only! Look around the Statue as it is falling! No dots or people at all. Just 2 Guys!

4 Captain Britains (Britains, Spain, France, and Italy) yet there is 18 missiles. Do the math people. Those are clearly the Shield Suits in action as this was when they were debut in the Ultimates.

Just to prove this....

3 Cap Britains.... that is it.

Here just for further proof.

The Ultimates tour the European Ultimates. Only 4 members! Britain, Spain, France, and Italy!

`

Here again, the European Ultimates help save the city from the Libersators. There is only 3 of them!

During the events of Ultimate Thor, how many Captain Britains made up the whole team? 2 of them! Captain Britain and Spain!

During the whole New Ultimates run there was only 2 Captain Britains left.

The Second Captain Britain and Captain Italy... who later died.

This one I can except because cap did use his shield. All though I still think the dinosaur played a role. And Ultimate juggernaut isn't as durable as ultimate hulk.

So a 40 ton Dinasuar doing a aimless 15 MPH charge really played a role in that? Doubt it considering Juggernauts feats.

Again I can except it since cap used his shield. All though warmachine isn't as durable as ultimate hulk.

War Machine is nor Durable? Are you freaking kidding me!

WM vs Red Skull. WM did the most out of the whole team against Red Skull with the Cosmic Cube.

Wm vs Cash. This is Tyrone Cash. he has the same Hulk formula, only better. Warmachine is fighting Hulk level foe. Lasts better than what IM dod vs Hulk.

Wm vs Cash. Here is WM again trading blows with Tyrone, he does well till Tyrone starts hitting him with earth quaking Strength! Even then WM was still Battle Functioning!

WM vs Iron Man. In this beats Iron Man, then nearly drowns Cap. It took Thor to put him down.

Oh yeah, WM is such a light weight!

Did cap use his shield here? IIRC Caps shield is made of asgardian metal so its unique properties can play a role.

Wrong, and this is why, Nowhere is there any proof or statement of that. Its almost the same as making up a super power for his shield.

Is it durable? Extemely. Does it work anything like Vibranium? Absolutly not. It is all Caps Strength!

First feat is a easy 20 tons. I know this as a Buldozer Operator who has pushed earth and ruble in Haiti. That is around 20 tons of earth, car, and concrete!

Second feat is a large Pine Tree which can weigh from 5-6 tons with Momentum of Falling onto Caps Shoulder! Meaning it was more like 8+ tons of impact!

Cap is Super Human.

Zarda makes a Killing strike on Wrecker (No holding back for her, it is not in character for her to hold back at all ever!) and Cap takes it with out broken arm or being crushed!

Same Zarda who PWNS Hulk!

Cap tanks this All out blow from a Mind Control Thor. No broken Arms or body! That is strength!

If this is not enough!

Look at this?! Cap with No Shield blocks a hit from a BLOODLUSTED Thor and is perfectly fine. What a feat of Strength and Durability!

So yes, anytime someone says "Oh Cap feats are PIS in strength!" I call Bull**** as the feats and statements speak for themselves. All we have to judge cap is his feats, there is no statements of how strong he is at all.

I say cap is a easy 10 toner and Stricking Feats up to 50-60 tons per force!

#135 Posted by nickzambuto (12639 posts) - - Show Bio

For the record, I do see Ultimate Cap as being much much stronger than Deathstroke.

#136 Edited by VeganDiet (945 posts) - - Show Bio

2 Guys only! Look around the Statue as it is falling! No dots or people at all. Just 2 Guys!

4 Captain Britains (Britains, Spain, France, and Italy) yet there is 18 missiles. Do the math people. Those are clearly the Shield Suits in action as this was when they were debut in the Ultimates.

I'd just like to point out that this isn't true. Two pages before the scene you just posted there's a splash page where far more than 4 Captain "Britains", or at least people that are very obviously not people in Shield Suits, are visible. Looks to be about 15 of them. I can provide a scan if necessary.

#137 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@vegandiet:

There has only EVER been 4 Confirmed Captain Britain Suits officialy made and operating. There has been a whole canidate progrram with others in it (as seen below) but ONLY 4 Capatain Britain suit wearing members in the whole Ultimate Universe guy. Britain, France, Italy, and Spain. That was it.....

Just to prove this....

3 Cap Britains.... that is it.

Here just for further proof.

The Ultimates tour the European Ultimates. Only 4 members! Britain, Spain, France, and Italy!

`

Here again, the European Ultimates help save the city from the Libersators. There is only 3 of them!

During the events of Ultimate Thor, how many Captain Britains made up the whole team? 2 of them! Captain Britain and Spain!

During the whole New Ultimates run there was only 2 Captain Britains left.

The Second Captain Britain and Captain Italy... who later died.

Prove to me there were more than the 4 of them in any Ultimate Comic beside some half @$$ splash page that shows and explains nothing. Eplain to me why the Liberation Soldiers who can tip the Statue of Liberty was evenly challenge by SHIELD suit agents. Explain to me why these same SHIELD agents can also fly? Explain to me how there is 4 confirm Cap Britain Suits through the whole Ultimate Series and there is SHIELD Giant Men watching 18+ missiles flying in the air?

Cause I love to hear the solid proof against my shown proof.

#138 Posted by jashro44 (19118 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Knock off Balance does not Equal or Explain Hulk laying out and not moving on the ground for a solid 5-6 seconds!

Also this feat is not a freaking big deal when Cap has shown Consistent strength feats of equal caliber.

Ultimate hulk was confused and stunned not damaged. Ultimate thor did more damage to ultimate hulk and yet ultimate thor did not knock out ultimate hulk. If ultimate cap knocked out ultimate hulk it would mean he did enough damage to do so, also meaning he did more damage then ultimate thor which we know isn't true.

Except it is CONSISTENT with his feats..... Also how is it PIS!? Tell me how strong Cap is. Tell Me! Cuase it is not definitive stated ANYWHERE period. He could be a 20 toner. All we have is his insane striking feats feats.

Ultimate cap punched ultimate juggernaut with Black panthers weapons (the same weapons he used to break ultimate wreckers nose)....Which did very little to ultimate juggernaut. It doesn't make sense he could take Ultimate Juggernaut out with a kick.

I will get to him knocking out Ultimate juggernaut with a shield bash later. As for where his stats are listed his hand book says he is an enhanced human. Enhanced is typically defined as low level super human.

Granted I do think this classification is wrong however I also doubt he is a 20 tonner.

Yes they have feats. Carrying Nukes, and the Liberation Copies (Which showed equal to SHIELD suits) and two Liberation Suits pushed the Statue of Liberty down.

Wow look at that, The Shield and Liberator Suits fly and have Super Strength.

Now read the scan. Class 3 Strength. What does that mean? 300 pounds? 3 Tons? 3 Kilograms? 30 tons? 300 Tons?

2 Guys only! Look around the Statue as it is falling! No dots or people at all. Just 2 Guys!

4 Captain Britains (Britains, Spain, France, and Italy) yet there is 18 missiles. Do the math people. Those are clearly the Shield Suits in action as this was when they were debut in the Ultimates.

Just to prove this....

3 Cap Britains.... that is it.

Here just for further proof.

The Ultimates tour the European Ultimates. Only 4 members! Britain, Spain, France, and Italy!

`

Here again, the European Ultimates help save the city from the Libersators. There is only 3 of them!

During the events of Ultimate Thor, how many Captain Britains made up the whole team? 2 of them! Captain Britain and Spain!

During the whole New Ultimates run there was only 2 Captain Britains left.

The Second Captain Britain and Captain Italy... who later died.

I know about there strength. I asked about durability because I haven't seen anything to indicate they are difficult to damage. Strength=//durability in some cases. And the fact ultimate hawkeye shot the liberation soldiers with arrows and killed them like that leads me to believe there durability isn't as impressive as there strength.

Any evidence to say there durability is equal to there strength.

So a 40 ton Dinasuar doing a aimless 15 MPH charge really played a role in that? Doubt it considering Juggernauts feats.

A 40 ton dinosaur who apparently hit him with enough force to destroy his armor....

War Machine is nor Durable? Are you freaking kidding me!

WM vs Red Skull. WM did the most out of the whole team against Red Skull with the Cosmic Cube.

Wm vs Cash. This is Tyrone Cash. he has the same Hulk formula, only better. Warmachine is fighting Hulk level foe. Lasts better than what IM dod vs Hulk.

Wm vs Cash. Here is WM again trading blows with Tyrone, he does well till Tyrone starts hitting him with earth quaking Strength! Even then WM was still Battle Functioning!

WM vs Iron Man. In this beats Iron Man, then nearly drowns Cap. It took Thor to put him down.

Oh yeah, WM is such a light weight!

Did cap use his shield here? IIRC Caps shield is made of asgardian metal so its unique properties can play a role.

I never said war machine isn't durable I said he isn't as durable as hulk And he isn't....Ultimate hulk has tanked nukes and ultimate thors best hits....Besides IIRC in your ultimate war machine vs spider-man thread I thought you said that cap could have knowledge of warmachines weak points?

Is it durable? Extemely. Does it work anything like Vibranium? Absolutly not. It is all Caps Strength!

I will get to this in a minute.

First feat is a easy 20 tons. I know this as a Buldozer Operator who has pushed earth and ruble in Haiti. That is around 20 tons of earth, car, and concrete!

Second feat is a large Pine Tree which can weigh from 5-6 tons with Momentum of Falling onto Caps Shoulder! Meaning it was more like 8+ tons of impact!

Cap is Super Human.

I doubt that is a 20 ton feat. Your average car is about 2 tons and that boulder looks to be around 10 tons. He also isn't lifting the entire boulder off the ground and is only lifting one end off the ground.

I never questioned cap was super human but he is not a 20 tonner.

Zarda makes a Killing strike on Wrecker (No holding back for her, it is not in character for her to hold back at all ever!) and Cap takes it with out broken arm or being crushed!

Same Zarda who PWNS Hulk!

If this were a strength feat ultimate cap would have to be a class 100. He isn't that strong.

Cap tanks this All out blow from a Mind Control Thor. No broken Arms or body! That is strength!

If this is not enough!

Look at this?! Cap with No Shield blocks a hit from a BLOODLUSTED Thor and is perfectly fine. What a feat of Strength and Durability!

This just supports that his shield contains unique properties and that him blocking class 100 hits with it is not a strength feat. When he uses the sword he gets launched through a building and needs iron man to catch him. As I said there is a difference between strength and durability (especially in ultimate caps case who has a healing factor). Ultimate cap isn't class 100.

So yes, anytime someone says "Oh Cap feats are PIS in strength!" I call Bull**** as the feats and statements speak for themselves. All we have to judge cap is his feats, there is no statements of how strong he is at all.

I say cap is a easy 10 toner and Stricking Feats up to 50-60 tons per force!

I disagree. Ultimate cap is super human but he can't knock out ultimate hulk.

#139 Posted by mightyrearranger (1410 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm still confused by this thread...

Are we talkin' New 52 Slade or classic?

#140 Edited by jashro44 (19118 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm still confused by this thread...

Are we talkin' New 52 Slade or classic?

This thread was made before flashpoint so it would be pre 52 deathstroke.

#141 Posted by mightyrearranger (1410 posts) - - Show Bio
@jashro44 said:

@mightyrearranger said:

I'm still confused by this thread...

Are we talkin' New 52 Slade or classic?

This thread was made before flashpoint so it would be pre 52 deathstroke.

Makes sense now...

*facepalm* :p

#142 Edited by jashro44 (19118 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@mightyrearranger said:

I'm still confused by this thread...

Are we talkin' New 52 Slade or classic?

This thread was made before flashpoint so it would be pre 52 deathstroke.

Makes sense now...

*facepalm* :p

LOL no problem. It gets confusing sometimes.

#143 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate hulk was confused and stunned not damaged. Ultimate thor did more damage to ultimate hulk and yet ultimate thor did not knock out ultimate hulk. If ultimate cap knocked out ultimate hulk it would mean he did enough damage to do so, also meaning he did more damage then ultimate thor which we know isn't true.

Hulk was hit harder by Thor and gave no sense of shock or stunned. He laughed and punched Thor without missing a beat. He was not even down. He was clearly laid flat out by Cap.

Even the art shows this.That is not a drawing of Stunned or Shock, that is temporary seeing freaking stars.

Ultimate cap punched ultimate juggernaut with Black panthers weapons (the same weapons he used to break ultimate wreckers nose)....Which did very little to ultimate juggernaut. It doesn't make sense he could take Ultimate Juggernaut out with a kick.

Ultimate Juggs helmet was not on in the Kick Feat. No helmet equals no extra layer of defense.

I will get to him knocking out Ultimate juggernaut with a shield bash later. As for where his stats are listed his hand book says he is an enhanced human. Enhanced is typically defined as low level super human.

Granted I do think this classification is wrong however I also doubt he is a 20 tonner.

He isnt a 20 toner, he is 5 toner by lifting feats. Stricking Feats =/= Lifting feats.

I know about there strength. I asked about durability because I haven't seen anything to indicate they are difficult to damage. Strength=//durability in some cases. And the fact ultimate hawkeye shot the liberation soldiers with arrows and killed them like that leads me to believe there durability isn't as impressive as there strength.

Any evidence to say there durability is equal to there strength.

Wonder woman is not durable I guess either since she can be shot and stabbed....

She blocks in the top scan, becuase she can be pierced like in the bottom scan. Is her durability weak?!

Also Hawkeye uses armor piercing Arrows, which makes sense!

A 40 ton dinosaur who apparently hit him with enough force to destroy his armor....

Leather Armor <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Dinosaur. That is common sense.

I never said war machine isn't durable I said he isn't as durable as hulk And he isn't....Ultimate hulk has tanked nukes and ultimate thors best hits....Besides IIRC in your ultimate war machine vs spider-man thread I thought you said that cap could have knowledge of warmachines weak points?

Yes, as a excuse at the time, however after collecting Ultimate Captain America comics and scnning them, guess what? My stance changed, because it is very consistent for Ultimate Cap to punch or strike harder than 616 Luke Cage.

I doubt that is a 20 ton feat. Your average car is about 2 tons and that boulder looks to be around 10 tons. He also isn't lifting the entire boulder off the ground and is only lifting one end off the ground.

Keep in mind a real life boulder like this one is 340 tons.

20 tons seems less now I think about it. That is easily 1/10 the size of that rock and that is 34 tons.

So yeah....

I never questioned cap was super human but he is not a 20 tonner.

Your right, he is more 30 toner. My mistake.

If this were a strength feat ultimate cap would have to be a class 100. He isn't that strong.

Its consistent.... out of 10 years of feats he has 6 feats of 100+ so......

This just supports that his shield contains unique properties and that him blocking class 100 hits with it is not a strength feat. When he uses the sword he gets launched through a building and needs iron man to catch him. As I said there is a difference between strength and durability (especially in ultimate caps case who has a healing factor). Ultimate cap isn't class 100.

His Shield tank the blast, Cap strength tanked the Strength force of the attack! Is his arms broken? No. That is strength of Bones and Muscles.

I disagree. Ultimate cap is super human but he can't knock out ultimate hulk.

He can knock out for 5 seconds a calm Hulk, and he did.

Consistent feats are hard to argue against.

#144 Edited by nickzambuto (12639 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 @jashro44 Does Ultimate Hulk get stronger as he gets angrier like 616 Hulk does? Perhaps Hulk was weaker earlier on in the fight, and that's why Cap could do more damage than Thor did... assuming Hulk fought Thor after the whole Cap incident.

EDIT: @cadencev2 I recognize that boulder... lol

Keep in mind, Cap was lifting concrete and asphalt, if I'm looking at that scan correctly, not rock.

Still, that's an incredible strength feat, one I did not expect from Ultimate Cap. I agree, he's an easy 10-15 tonner in his strikes. In lifting, he stalemated Ultimate Spider-Man in a push contest, so considering the speed he'd be thrusting his arms in a punch (fast enough to block lightning) a lot of power is going to be added.

#145 Posted by jashro44 (19118 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2:

Hulk was hit harder by Thor and gave no sense of shock or stunned. He laughed and punched Thor without missing a beat. He was not even down. He was clearly laid flat out by Cap.

Even the art shows this.That is not a drawing of Stunned or Shock, that is temporary seeing freaking stars.

Exactly my point. Yet it was confirmed he did the most damage to hulk. If cap knocked him out it means he did more damage then thor. Which he didn't. He knocked him off balance and hulk was confused for a few seconds. Thats it.

Ultimate Juggs helmet was not on in the Kick Feat. No helmet equals no extra layer of defense.

So perhaps ultimate juggernaut has a glass jaw? Any feats without his armor?

He isnt a 20 toner, he is 5 toner by lifting feats. Stricking Feats =/= Lifting feats.

OK I think I can agree with that.

Wonder woman is not durable I guess either since she can be shot and stabbed....

She blocks in the top scan, becuase she can be pierced like in the bottom scan. Is her durability weak?!

Your missing the point. We know wonder woman has high end blunt force resistance because of her feats. She has been punched by superman from the sun to Earth, and said punch launched towards the earth at faster then light speeds and she was conscious. Same can't be said for the liberation soldiers. As such there durability is still in question. Wonder womans is not.

Also Hawkeye uses armor piercing Arrows, which makes sense!

I doubt his armor piercing arrows can stab class 100's.

Leather Armor <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Dinosaur. That is common sense.

Does he have durability feats without armor? The helmet isn't leather. Ultimate caps punch generated sparks.

Yes, as a excuse at the time, however after collecting Ultimate Captain America comics and scnning them, guess what? My stance changed, because it is very consistent for Ultimate Cap to punch or strike harder than 616 Luke Cage.

I need you to clarify what you mean at the under line part.

As for the rest you said Ultimate cap stole shield files before the fight IIRC? Why exactly is that invalid now?

Keep in mind a real life boulder like this one is 340 tons.

20 tons seems less now I think about it. That is easily 1/10 the size of that rock and that is 34 tons.

The rock looks about 7 ft tall (maybe a little bigger all though its hard to say). A 7 ft tall boulder is about 10 tons. You have to take into account the volume of the rock. We cannot say for certain however.

http://www.junipercivic.com/juniperberryarticle.asp?nid=248

The link above is about a 7 ft tall rock that weighs 10 tons.

Your right, he is more 30 toner. My mistake.

Not in terms of lifting/raw strength. Maybe he hits that hard with his shield but he is not a 30 tonner.

Its consistent.... out of 10 years of feats he has 6 feats of 100+ so....

He isn't a class 100. I don't need to debate this point. His shield has unique properties. Seems pretty clear to me.

His Shield tank the blast, Cap strength tanked the Strength force of the attack! Is his arms broken? No. That is strength of Bones and Muscles.

His shield absorbed the impact of the blast. And his arms on breaking is durability/healing. Not strength, even if his shield did not absorb the impact.

He can knock out for 5 seconds a calm Hulk, and he did.

Consistent feats are hard to argue against.

I disagree about the consistency here.

#146 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 @jashro44 Does Ultimate Hulk get stronger as he gets angrier like 616 Hulk does? Perhaps Hulk was weaker earlier on in the fight, and that's why Cap could do more damage than Thor did... assuming Hulk fought Thor after the whole Cap incident.

He does have the factor in the form of Adapting!

That is how Hulk works.

#147 Posted by nickzambuto (12639 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44

The rock looks about 7 ft tall (maybe a little bigger all though its hard to say). A 7 ft tall boulder is about 10 tons. You have to take into account the volume of the rock. We cannot say for certain however.

http://www.junipercivic.com/juniperberryarticle.asp?nid=248

The link above is about a 7 ft tall rock that weighs 10 tons.

???

Look at that completely average sized pedestrian standing next to the boulder. We'll say the average size of a human is 5-6 feet tall, and you can stack three of him to make the boulder's height. It's more like 16 feet tall, never mind the fact that it's 10 times thicker than the one in your link.

#148 Edited by jashro44 (19118 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44

The rock looks about 7 ft tall (maybe a little bigger all though its hard to say). A 7 ft tall boulder is about 10 tons. You have to take into account the volume of the rock. We cannot say for certain however.

http://www.junipercivic.com/juniperberryarticle.asp?nid=248

The link above is about a 7 ft tall rock that weighs 10 tons.

???

Look at that completely average sized pedestrian standing next to the boulder. We'll say the average size of a human is 5-6 feet tall, and you can stack three of him to make the boulder's height. It's more like 16 feet tall, never mind the fact that it's 10 times thicker than the one in your link.

The boulder looks like it is sitting on top of rubble to me. The pedestrian doesn't look like it is on the same rubble as the rock. I was more so comparing it to Ultimate cap who is on the same ground as the rock.

#149 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

EDIT: @cadencev2 I recognize that boulder... lol

Keep in mind, Cap was lifting concrete and asphalt, if I'm looking at that scan correctly, not rock.

Still, that's an incredible strength feat, one I did not expect from Ultimate Cap. I agree, he's an easy 10-15 tonner in his strikes. In lifting, he stalemated Ultimate Spider-Man in a push contest, so considering the speed he'd be thrusting his arms in a punch (fast enough to block lightning) a lot of power is going to be added.

Yes, and Asphalt packed down on earth (Compressing it) with Steel Pipes running through it for drainage is very heavy.

Exactly my point. Yet it was confirmed he did the most damage to hulk. If cap knocked him out it means he did more damage then thor. Which he didn't. He knocked him off balance and hulk was confused for a few seconds. Thats it.

I think Hulk Adapated to it afterward as above feats show. which still means Cap hit harder than Charging Iron man and Hank Pym as Giant Man, who is a 60 toner btw.

So perhaps ultimate juggernaut has a glass jaw? Any feats without his armor?

Durability guy.

Cap hits harder than Gambits Charging Energy!

Wonder woman is not durable I guess either since she can be shot and stabbed....

She blocks in the top scan, becuase she can be pierced like in the bottom scan. Is her durability weak?!

Your missing the point. We know wonder woman has high end blunt force resistance because of her feats. She has been punched by superman from the sun to Earth, and said punch launched towards the earth at faster then light speeds and she was conscious. Same can't be said for the liberation soldiers. As such there durability is still in question. Wonder womans is not.

I know it defies logic and physics to have the muscle power to lift 100+ tons and then lose to a 800 pound mans punch. That makes no sense in any world. I do know these Liberation Suits fight evenly with the SHIELD ones. Meaning they are tanking eachothers 100+ strength hits! As the scan above shows.

I doubt his armor piercing arrows can stab class 100's.

Why not.... Wonder Woman.....

Does he have durability feats without armor? The helmet isn't leather. Ultimate caps punch generated sparks.

Up above.

I need you to clarify what you mean at the under line part.

As for the rest you said Ultimate cap stole shield files before the fight IIRC? Why exactly is that invalid now?

What I mean as a excuse is just that, I had very little scans to show consistent proof of Caps strength and even less scans at the time of out right strength. Now I have all the scans to say with confidence Cap is strong as hell.

The rock looks about 7 ft tall (maybe a little bigger all though its hard to say). A 7 ft tall boulder is about 10 tons. You have to take into account the volume of the rock. We cannot say for certain however.

http://www.junipercivic.com/juniperberryarticle.asp?nid=248

The link above is about a 7 ft tall rock that weighs 10 tons.

Not in terms of lifting/raw strength. Maybe he hits that hard with his shield but he is not a 30 tonner.

Cap is 6"3, I am rounding down to Cap being 6" just to low ball. To me that looks like a 9 high x 4 wide x 3 thick = 108 Cubic Feet roughly. 108 x 150 = 16,200

Roughly 16,200 pounds. That is 8 tons then. Add in the 2 Ton Soak and Wet Car ( Right after the Flood, standing water in the floors in puddles and cushions soaked as well trunk) Makes 10 tons roughly.

Now we did math in a rough calc, could be 1-2 tons more or less. If that is a fiber class car, less, steel frame car means more, weight of asphalt, Iron Pipes or Steel Pipes running in it, ect.

Either way. We have a better answer.

He isn't a class 100. I don't need to debate this point. His shield has unique properties. Seems pretty clear to me.

Never said Cap was lifting 100 tons. Only stricking and withstand 100+ ton blows.

Not strength, even if his shield did not absorb the impact.

OK, we can roll with that then.

I disagree about the consistency here.

The we agree to disagree.

#150 Posted by jashro44 (19118 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 @jashro44 Does Ultimate Hulk get stronger as he gets angrier like 616 Hulk does? Perhaps Hulk was weaker earlier on in the fight, and that's why Cap could do more damage than Thor did... assuming Hulk fought Thor after the whole Cap incident.

EDIT: @cadencev2 I recognize that boulder... lol

Keep in mind, Cap was lifting concrete and asphalt, if I'm looking at that scan correctly, not rock.

Still, that's an incredible strength feat, one I did not expect from Ultimate Cap. I agree, he's an easy 10-15 tonner in his strikes. In lifting, he stalemated Ultimate Spider-Man in a push contest, so considering the speed he'd be thrusting his arms in a punch (fast enough to block lightning) a lot of power is going to be added.

He does get stronger. But IIRC he was rag dolling ultimate iron man earlier in the fight before ultimate iron man used sonics which made hulk run.

One of my issues is that ultimate thor was confirmed to do the most damage on panel. And even after he broke hulks bones hulk was still conscious. IIRC hulk even stated all thors strikes did was make him "horny for Betty". And that was the person who did the most damage (other then wasps blowing his brains but that came later).