#51 Posted by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: All he did was knock him down. Thats it. Its not like hulk was actually hurt. He got up and started beating the avengers again.

#52 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Oh yeah your right he just merely got put down for more than a second... What part of He was down longer than when hit by Thor or ironman are you not regerstering? I never said anywhere he beat Hulk. He actually put him down was a feat when no one else so.

#53 Posted by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: What part of hulk was not hurt are you not getting? On the exact same page as hulk was knocked down he grabbed caps hand and started crushing it. Knocking someone down is not a feat.

#54 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

UCA.

#55 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

So Here we have a 5 tonner with raw Skill put a 100 tonner on his ass and finish the mission.
 


Here we have a 100 tonner aganst a 100 tonner with a Magic Hammer doing the same feat that 5 tonner Cap manage. 
 
THATS NOT A FEAT! Now your just downplaying Cap. The Scans dont lie.
#56 Posted by Strider92 (16595 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Cap has the physical advantage needed to win this.

#57 Posted by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: Hulk wasn't hurt its right there in your own scans. He was on the ground for 1 panel. What makes you think cap can do more damage to hulk then thor? What even remotely makes sense about a 5 tonner doing more damage then a 100+ tonner?

Characters do this stuff all the time. Spider-man once sent the thing flying a few feat with a back hand, 616 cap knocked down king thor and I doubt thor was hurt, thanos blasted galactus across a planet and said he knew he didn't actually achieve anything, etc. I doubt spider-man, captain america (616), and thanos actually hurt the people they were hitting.

#58 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
@jashro44
Once again where do I ever say Cap "Hurt" Hulk I said he knocks him down which is more than anyone else did and he did that with as I said Skill.  
 
Thats a skill feat... ever heard of skills? They are kinda a big deal for characters like Daradevil and Cap. Seriously stop posting crap I didnt say and stop trying to downplay Caps Skill feat.
 
 
Go on I dare ya Quote me where I EVA said he was hurt by hulk!? Whats that? Ya cant. Its a Skill feat as I already stated. Hope this clears things up.
#59 Posted by Jayfournines (4024 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Cap wins just because he never loses

#60 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio

@Jayfournines said:

Ultimate Cap wins just because he never loses

Except for when he does.

Moderator
#61 Posted by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2:

I assumed when you were posting it you were using it as a feat that cap hurt hulk because people tend to do that (use it as a strength feat [which is why I thought was the reason you said cap was top super solider]). I admit I didn't notice the part of your second comment which said it was due to skill so I do apologize for missing that. It is a skill feat all though the hulk isn't really a skilled fighter so its not really something which put him above deathstroke (not saying slade wins just saying its not that great a feat in comparison to what slade has done). The other stuff you posted was pretty awesome though.

#62 Posted by Jayfournines (4024 posts) - - Show Bio

@Morpheus_ said:

@Jayfournines said:

Ultimate Cap wins just because he never loses

Except for when he does.

PIS I say!

#63 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio
@jashro44
Ahhh got. Sry for gettin heated.
#64 Posted by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2:No problem.

#65 Posted by Super_SoldierXII (6376 posts) - - Show Bio

Deathstroke takes his head off.

#66 Posted by never give up (9619 posts) - - Show Bio

bump interesting battle

#67 Edited by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

bump since this thread was made earlier and people want to discuss it....

#68 Edited by russellmania77 (15503 posts) - - Show Bio

didnt ult hulk beat the ever loving crap outta cap after that?

and deathstroke took down the justice league, flash, atom, hawkman, green arrow, zantana, green lantern, n elastic man. he did beat batman down hard but after that fight he said he has faced the best and batman was even better, if he didnt the enhances than he wouldve lost, that doesnt mean anything but im just defending batman

DS wins

#69 Posted by SwordandShields (712 posts) - - Show Bio

Ult. Cap. those scans show it all.

#70 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

didnt ult hulk beat the ever loving crap outta cap after that?

and deathstroke took down the justice league, flash, atom, hawkman, green arrow, zantana, green lantern, n elastic man. he did beat batman down hard but after that fight he said he has faced the best and batman was even better, if he didnt the enhances than he wouldve lost, that doesnt mean anything but im just defending batman

DS wins

LOL.

Captain America beats the Ultimate Avengers including War Machine, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Nerd Hulk, Red Wasp, and SHIELD with No Prep. He then Allows himself to be captured to find where Red Skull is and beats the hell out of SHIELD.

Here Cap is tranquilized to his eyeballs beat the hell out of 60+ toner Super Suit SHIELD Agents and tanks a Iron Man Mach Speed Charge.

Ult. Cap Wins Easy.

#71 Edited by SlimJ87D (10045 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I love that whole scene with the Ultimate Avengers. He freaking jumps out of a building and knocks a big rig over on its side. Love it.

#72 Edited by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2 said:

@russellmania77 said:

didnt ult hulk beat the ever loving crap outta cap after that?

and deathstroke took down the justice league, flash, atom, hawkman, green arrow, zantana, green lantern, n elastic man. he did beat batman down hard but after that fight he said he has faced the best and batman was even better, if he didnt the enhances than he wouldve lost, that doesnt mean anything but im just defending batman

DS wins

LOL.

Captain America beats the Ultimate Avengers including War Machine, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Nerd Hulk, Red Wasp, and SHIELD with No Prep. He then Allows himself to be captured to find where Red Skull is and beats the hell out of SHIELD.

Here Cap is tranquilized to his eyeballs beat the hell out of 60+ toner Super Suit SHIELD Agents and tanks a Iron Man Mach Speed Charge.

Ult. Cap Wins Easy.

I don't think ultimate captain america wins this easily. I think a case can be made for either side.

#73 Edited by schillenger420 (821 posts) - - Show Bio

The op didn't post enough info. I could easily envision a story where Deathstroke is hired to capture or kill the Captain.... in which case he'll win. The reverse is also true, I could see Captain America tasked with bringing in Deathstroke in which case Cap wins. If it's a no prep, fight in the desert kinda battle than I gotta give it to Cap. Deathstroke's very good, but so is Captain America. I think in the Skill dept. their equal so I gotta go with experience. Cap wins the majority.

#74 Edited by Dextersinister (6197 posts) - - Show Bio

@schillenger420 said:

The op didn't post enough info. I could easily envision a story where Deathstroke is hired to capture or kill the Captain.... in which case he'll win. The reverse is also true, I could see Captain America tasked with bringing in Deathstroke in which case Cap wins. If it's a no prep, fight in the desert kinda battle than I gotta give it to Cap. Deathstroke's very good, but so is Captain America. I think in the Skill dept. their equal so I gotta go with experience. Cap wins the majority.

Deathstroke is much more experienced than Cap, he lied about his age when joining the army and he is one of the few recognizable characters within mainstream comics that is allowed to be old.

Obviously excluding side characters such as Alfred and Aunt May but even she was de-aged in the new Spider Man cartoon.

#75 Posted by Shawnbaby (10799 posts) - - Show Bio

The op didn't post enough info. I could easily envision a story where Deathstroke is hired to capture or kill the Captain.... in which case he'll win. The reverse is also true, I could see Captain America tasked with bringing in Deathstroke in which case Cap wins. If it's a no prep, fight in the desert kinda battle than I gotta give it to Cap. Deathstroke's very good, but so is Captain America. I think in the Skill dept. their equal so I gotta go with experience. Cap wins the majority.

Be Specific About Fights

I think this is probably the most important rule, and when it’s followed, many other problems go away. When starting a battle you need to be specific about how everything is going to go down. This includes a lot of factors. A lot of posters just type "fighter 1 vs fighter 2, who wins?" and they're done. Putting just a little effort into it can sort out a lot of questions that pop up later. You can determine if the characters involved are acting in character (like they normally would as their personalities dictate), if they are “bloodlusted” or anywhere in between, how much time they get before the fight (prep), where they're fighting, what gear they have with them, which incarnation of the character, any power limitations, etc, etc. It really isn’t hard to flesh out the battle a little and it goes a long way.

Writing some options again to make sure they’re easy to see:

In Character or Bloodlusted

Prep Time or No Prep Time

Setting (time, location, bystanders, available resources, etc)

Gear (standard weaponry/gadgets/items, unarmed, special weapons)

Character Version (current version, original, alternate universe, etc)

Extra Rules (time limits, boundaries, what counts as win)

When these things are left out it’s generally assumed that characters are fighting to the best of their ability but still within the limits of their personality, using their standard gear, have no prep time, and are their current mainstream versions. Their starting distance is close and the setting is most often a city. Without any specifications to a battle, those are what we go by. It’s always best to give as much information about the fight in the first post.


#76 Edited by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5078 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Cap

#77 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I was being a smart a$$ at the other guy for his Post on DS wins cause of PIS and Prep vs JL.

#78 Edited by laflux (16191 posts) - - Show Bio

Deathstroke takes his head off.

10 months later, has your opinion changed?

#79 Edited by Super_SoldierXII (6376 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@super_soldierxii said:

Deathstroke takes his head off.

10 months later, has your opinion changed?

Honestly? It's a fairly even fight - despite Ult. Cap holding a slight physical strength advantage IMHO. Pretty close to 50/50 status. In retrospect, I'd probably have DS winning a very slight majority against Wolverine too if it weren't for the metal if it's any consolation.

Tough fight to call. Good arguments can be made for either or.

#80 Edited by nickzambuto (13795 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@CadenceV2: Hulk wasn't hurt its right there in your own scans. He was on the ground for 1 panel. What makes you think cap can do more damage to hulk then thor? What even remotely makes sense about a 5 tonner doing more damage then a 100+ tonner?

Characters do this stuff all the time. Spider-man once sent the thing flying a few feat with a back hand, 616 cap knocked down king thor and I doubt thor was hurt, thanos blasted galactus across a planet and said he knew he didn't actually achieve anything, etc. I doubt spider-man, captain america (616), and thanos actually hurt the people they were hitting.

Cap actually had Hulk on the ground long enough to go back and forth with SHIELD over the radio for at least a few seconds. That implies Hulk was legitimately injured and was taking time to heal.

I see that fight as pure skill for Ultimate Steve, it's like you said, "What even remotely makes sense about a 5 tonner doing more damage then a 100+ tonner?" The answer is absolutely nothing. Cap didn't brawl with Hulk, he kept him off balance, used his speed to get in numerous hits before Hulk could counter, and hit him in certain areas where he would do maximum damage, such as kicking him in the groin and shield bashing his head. The fact that Cap's haymaker could draw blood from Hulk's nose is a very impressive strength feat, but the fight is still mostly a skill showing considering Cap shouldn't be able to do much damage to Hulk, yet still did.

@cadencev2 @slimj87d Do you guys have any other skill showings for Cap? Right now that seems to be the deciding factor for this match in my head. Cap is much stronger, Slade is much faster. Whoever's the better fighter will take it; Deathstroke to me is a more advanced martial artist, yet Cap has the brutality and gumption to even things out. I'm undecided as of now, though I'm leaning toward Cap on account of durability (both are very tough, but Deathstroke might not be strong enough to do sufficient damage)

EDIT: Now that I look at some of the scans posted on this page, I give Cap the win.

#81 Edited by SlimJ87D (10045 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: These boards aren't what they used to be. I can't simply copy and paste my feats anymore. But I would just google site:comicvine.com Ultimate Captain America SlimJ87D

or

Site:comicvine.com Ultimate Captain America CadenceV2 and

Click on images and you should see everything we have posted about Ultimate Captain America.

I don't think there is anything that proves Slade is faster than Cap. Slade didn't blitz Batman even though he was faster, I think Batman was able to react and block a few of his strikes. Ultimate Captain America can run dozens of blocks in a second or two according to war machine. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to strike proportionally.

Ultimate Cap has the strength advantage. This is clear. Slade doesn't have any feats that puts him even above 616 Cap. Ultimate Cap was able to jump out of a building several stories (he's done this multiple times) and in one of the instances he even kicked over a metal big rig with Fury in it. This wasn't a normal big rig, it was all made of metal and it put a big dent in it too.

He's also taken direct hits from Hulk and abomination where I think Deathstroke has been KOed by Batman swinging a gun at his face.

I don't see the "speed" advantage over Ultimae Cap. They are most likely equal.

I see a big strength and durability gap though.

Also, from what I have learned in martial arts, I was always told to pick a shield over a sword. Cap has used his shield to slice and cut things, he can throw it with extreme accuracy and it serves as a much better defense weapon than Slade's sword. Because Cap can throw it and magically ricochet it, it is equally as deadly offensively as a sword.

Armor wise they are also about equal as parts of Ultimate Cap's suit is made of vibranium, specifically the breast plate.

#82 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Here is some.

Shield Throws.

Cap vs Abdul.

Cap is Tranquilized by Shield and out of it. After being released and still drugged up beats Schizo man.

Slammed around by Abomination.

And then pwns Abdul who was heavenly train as well Magicly empowered by Loki to be Caps equal.

Cap vs Nuke.

We all Nuke beats Cap first match, Cap was then captured and tortured by Nuke for a week straight, with no food, and * litters of Blood Drained from Cap.

Then Cap at his weakest relies on his skill and dirty fighting to beat the equal powerful (more so in Caps weak state) and equally train Nuke.

Cap vs Sabertooth.

Sabes skill is multiple fighting styles implanted in his head by Weapon X like Wolverine. Sabes skill is enough to beat Wolverine twice in the comics. Cap gets surprise jumped and then proceeds to gain the upper hand on Sabes.

Then as I posted Cap vs the Avengers above as well the Hulk showing. There are others of Cap beating some of the best Soldiers in super hero Programs as well.

#83 Posted by krauser99 (826 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Cap 6/10.

Strength: Slight edge to Cap

Durability:Slight edge to Cap

Speed:Slight edge to Slade.

Agility:Slight edge to Slade.

Skill: About equal honestly but if I have to chose probably barely Cap.

Mind: I could be wrong on this but got to go with Slade as his mind is enhanced. I know 616 Cap mind got boosted to even perfect recall. But I've never read a reference that states Ult Cap mind is enhanced by his SSS???????

Healing: While Ult Cap heals fast I don't think has displayed a regenerative healing factor like Slade. So nod to Deathstroke.

Weapons: Both do very well in this. Good fight.

#84 Posted by TommytheHitman (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

Deathstroke is way more skilled then Ultimate Cap and 616 Cap.

#85 Posted by nickzambuto (13795 posts) - - Show Bio

Deathstroke is way more skilled then Ultimate Cap and 616 Cap.

He's not a better fighter than 616.

#86 Posted by TommytheHitman (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: 616 Captain knows boxing and Judo. Deathstroke has hand fought Batman to a stand still. Cap hasn't done that.

#87 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate Captain America. I think this would be a close one, considering both are very skilled combatants, but I'll give the advantage to Ultimate Cap solely on the basis of stats, tactical prowess, and feats.

Great arguments on the Cap side, especially.

#88 Posted by nickzambuto (13795 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: 616 Captain knows boxing and Judo. Deathstroke has hand fought Batman to a stand still. Cap hasn't done that.

Captain America has mastered every fighting style known to man, I don't know where you get your information. Deathstroke beat Batman because he's stronger, Slade said so himself.

#89 Edited by TommytheHitman (3227 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Yeah but we're talking about Ultimate Cap. Slade is more skilled then Ultimate Cap. Ult Cap relies too much on his shield while Slade is more flexible with his guns. If they go hand to hand Cap is screwed. HE may be stronger but Slade's gone up against Wonder Woman before.

#90 Edited by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: That is actually an old comment.

That said hulk wasn't knocked out. Him going back in fourth with shield doesn't prove this because while he was going back and fourth he was also injecting the needle which would have taken a second at the most considering ultimate caps speed and precision. The fact he didn't inject ultimate hulk with the needle proves he wasn't knocked out. It really doesn't take me long to read the conversation and considering most street levelers have advanced perception I would assume it takes them less time to speak those words. The blood is just the artist getting carried away IMO. Its happened before.

He used skill to knock hulk down but that's really it. If hulk was damaged it was because he was kicked in the balls I guess. I dunno I guess Ultimate hulks balls aren't super durable.

@jashro44: I was being a smart a$$ at the other guy for his Post on DS wins cause of PIS and Prep vs JL.

Fair enough and I do agree about the Identity crisis being PIS.

@slimj87d: Not saying deathstroke wins but concerning durability Slade is quite durable.

First two he lands with enough force to dent a car and the second he jumps form a building and causes a dent in the street.

First set he takes hits from super boy and wonder girl and the next he tanks a explosion (I only uploaded the relevant scans)

He also has the healing factor.

#91 Posted by jamesisaacs (214 posts) - - Show Bio

Deathstroke curb stomps any version of Captain America. I'm sorry but anybody voting for the Cap in this battle is probably just a redneck patriot who knows nothing...

#92 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: Yeah but we're talking about Ultimate Cap. Slade is more skilled then Ultimate Cap. Ult Cap relies too much on his shield while Slade is more flexible with his guns. If they go hand to hand Cap is screwed. HE may be stronger but Slade's gone up against Wonder Woman before.

Yeah and he lost badly. Wonder Woman put no effort and held back while pwning Slade.

Cap has took a Beating from Juggernaut and KO him with a Shield strike to the face.

Not much damage to Cap by this guy who is a 100 toner.

Cap Takes a Beating from Hulk who rips Iron Man suit like nothing.

Still in the Fight

Abom who is also a 100 toner fails to harm Cap (Doped on Tranqs) much.

Still beat Abdul.

Cap Tanks the Jet Wash of a ICBM Missil and then a Grenade to the Face. Followed by the 3-4 mile Atom Bomb Shockwave.

Merely KOed.

Cap get Slammed half a mile threw the air and through a Building by Thor.

He is fine.

Cap gets Slam by a Charging Iron Man suit into the dirt. Look at the Impact blast!

Merely Koed.

Slade gets hurt by Batman.

@jashro44: This goes for you too. I think cap is more consistent in his Durability. The guy has a major Healing Factor that is below Wolverine but high enough to allow him to tank most attacks.

#93 Edited by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@cadencev2: I can agree overall ultimate cap is more durable but thing is all these are blunt force. Deathstroke is using a sword. @slimj87d brought up ultimate cap having vibranium plating so does that hold out to stabbing damage? If so is it like black panthers suit and vulnerable to slashing along the grain?

I think ultimate cap is stronger and he has better blunt force durability but Slade has better gear, a better healing factor, and I want to say he has better tactical thinking as well due to the whole 90% brain operation (all though my knowledge of how tactical ultimate cap is isn't that good so I could be wrong about tactical thinking). Skill, speed and agility are up for debate and that's what this is probably going to come down to. Its a little but difficult to gauge there skill due to their enhancements which makes that the hardest to gauge.

I think this could go either way at the moment. Its tough one. I mainly posted the durability feats I posted because I feel like people aren't taking into account Slade does have enhanced durability.

@jamesisaacs said:

Deathstroke curb stomps any version of Captain America. I'm sorry but anybody voting for the Cap in this battle is probably just a redneck patriot who knows nothing...

Deathstroke isn't curb stomping any captain america whether it be ultimate or 616.

#94 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@jamesisaacs: There's no need for derogatory comments mate.

Moderator
#95 Edited by SlimJ87D (10045 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: The whole chest is suppose to be a plate. I think he should be suspictable to stabs in other areas.

#96 Posted by nickzambuto (13795 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@nickzambuto: That is actually an old comment.

That said hulk wasn't knocked out. Him going back in fourth with shield doesn't prove this because while he was going back and fourth he was also injecting the needle which would have taken a second at the most considering ultimate caps speed and precision. The fact he didn't inject ultimate hulk with the needle proves he wasn't knocked out. It really doesn't take me long to read the conversation and considering most street levelers have advanced perception I would assume it takes them less time to speak those words. The blood is just the artist getting carried away IMO. Its happened before.

He used skill to knock hulk down but that's really it. If hulk was damaged it was because he was kicked in the balls I guess. I dunno I guess Ultimate hulks balls aren't super durable.

I'm not saying Hulk was literally knocked unconscious, just stunned. Have you ever taken a real hit, and just gone into complete shock for a moment? Like you tripped and fell down or a friend accidentally smacked you too hard. I think a quick barrage of military martial arts strikes to all of Hulk's weak points before he could react would have the same effect. Regardless of anyone's opinion, Hulk clearly was on the ground for at least several seconds, the scans don't lie. Cap himself clearly believed he had an opening when he daintily began to inject the needle whilst making small talk. It doesn't matter how fast you can read that dialogue, it matters how quickly someone would speak it in a realistic conversation. I think the advanced perception argument is BS, if Cap was talking super fast all the time I'm sure someone would of pointed it out somewhere down the line.

When Thor wailed on Hulk with Mjolnir, he dislocated Hulk's jaw, broke his ribs, and punctured a lung. Far more damage than Cap inflicted, yet Cap's assault still had Hulk dazed for longer then Thor's. That's because Cap's hits, though lacking in power, were skillful and focused enough to keep Hulk off balance and confuse him.

I would think the shield bash did more damage then the groin kick, though it is worth mentioning that a cat crawling along your body can have you gasping in pain if it hits your balls at the right angle, so I don't think it is too far fetched that Steve's kick caused Hulk pain.

@cadencev2 @slimj87d Is there a scan of Ultimate Cap teaching people how to channel their chi, or am I thinking of 616?

#97 Posted by SlimJ87D (10045 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto: That's 616. And it wasn't Chi on any energy level... I think it was literally Tai Chi... lol

#98 Edited by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickzambuto:

I'm not saying Hulk was literally knocked unconscious, just stunned. Have you ever taken a real hit, and just gone into complete shock for a moment? Like you tripped and fell down or a friend accidentally smacked you too hard. I think a quick barrage of military martial arts strikes to all of Hulk's weak points before he could react would have the same effect.

I can agree hulk was shocked and stunned but actually physically hurt? Thats pushing it. Which is what I was referring to a year ago (or however old that comment is) because I had thought cadence was using it as a strength feat. Back then people posted those sets of scans to prove ultimate cap can knock out the like of venom and cage and stuff because people were saying he knocked out ultimate hulk. He didn't.

Regardless of anyone's opinion, Hulk clearly was on the ground for at least several seconds, the scans don't lie. Cap himself clearly believed he had an opening when he daintily began to inject the needle whilst making small talk. It doesn't matter how fast you can read that dialogue, it matters how quickly someone would speak it in a realistic conversation. I think the advanced perception argument is BS, if Cap was talking super fast all the time I'm sure someone would of pointed it out somewhere down the line.

I can agree he was on the ground because he was confused and surprised. But again physical damage is over doing it.

I am willing to admit thought the super human perception is speculation on my part. I am fine with saying hulk was confused as long as we are in agreement he wasn't physically hurt.

All though here was my thinking of the whole perception thing. You don't have to read it but just explaining what I was thinking along the lines of.

A lot of street levelers have advanced perception. Off the top of my head shang chi, batman, and daredevil have reacted to bullets after they are fired. In order to do that they would have to be able to see the bullets. No normal human can do that in real life so there perception is beyond normal.

Here is a better example of what I am thinking of but elektra and gorgon have a conversation at the speed of thought. This is where I got the idea they were talking really fast and have better perception.

Before you bring up gorgons telepathy it needs to be noted elektra yelled at the soldiers to shoot gorgon but they didn't because they couldn't hear her according to gorgon.

When Thor wailed on Hulk with Mjolnir, he dislocated Hulk's jaw, broke his ribs, and punctured a lung. Far more damage than Cap inflicted, yet Cap's assault still had Hulk dazed for longer then Thor's. That's because Cap's hits, though lacking in power, were skillful and focused enough to keep Hulk off balance and confuse him.

Fair enough.

I would think the shield bash did more damage then the groin kick, though it is worth mentioning that a cat crawling along your body can have you gasping in pain if it hits your balls at the right angle, so I don't think it is too far fetched that Steve's kick caused Hulk pain.

I dunno. Hulk when he has banners brain was hurt when cap kicked him in the balls. I don't know much about the balls but is there muscle in that area? I would look it up but to be honest I am a little afraid of what might pop up...I guess its possible that if there is no muscle there hulks balls are as durable as anyone else?

@slimj87d said:

@jashro44: The whole chest is suppose to be a plate. I think he should be suspictable to stabs in other areas.

Is it like black panthers suit which is vulnerable to slashing along the grain?

#99 Posted by SlimJ87D (10045 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44:

No, breastplates are more solid, the best design probably being like samurai ones which Ironman's armor actually copies, the way a pate can collapse in itself. BP's are micro weaves like little chain links or something like that put together.

Something else I want to mention is again, a common thing they teach at self defense places is to choose a shield over a sword because it's offensive and defensive totalled together weigh out a lot more against a sword does which is more of a purely offensive weapon.

Add in the fact that Steve can use his shield even far above a normal shield by throwing it and I think it is much more effective than Deathstroke's sword.

You did show some good durability feats for Deathstroke I am familiar with from his respect threads. But I still think Cap is consistently stronger and more durable. I'm judging this from their average showings where Steve has leaped off of buildings consistently with no damage to his bones. From the top of my head, when he argued with Wasp and just hopped off of the building, another time when he tackled silver surfer with his arms out fallings about 20 or more stories and the one I posted above where he kicks a armored big rig truck onto its side. He's taken face first hits from extremely heavy hitters like Hulk, Abomination and Juggernaut. And he's taken 50 ton blows from people 10 to 20 tonners wielding weapons. In this thread I calculated and proved that a sledgehammer produces about a force of 50 tons coming from a normal human. Lets just be safe and assume the bare minimum of 50 tons.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/blockbuster-vs-tombstone-625944/

And here he gets smacked with hammers by Nuke who is suppose to be his equal or even stronger.

But you showed the Titans giving Slade a good beating, but then again Batman hit Slade with his rifle in the face staggering him long enough for Batman to subdue him. So I think consistently Ult Cap has the durability showings.

Speed, that's debatable.

Slade's healing factor might be better like you said, but the moment Cap gets a shield bash in, a continuous combo should take Slade out. That really goes for both of them. I don't think their healing factors matter her because whoever gets the good combo in it's pretty much over.

I don't think Slade's tactical mind is that much superior to Caps. Both of them are team busters. Slade has given hell to the titans, jal, etc. Ultimate Cap has given trouble to the whole government when he had super soldier Captain Britain guys attack him, brotherhood of mutants and the Ultimate Avengers.

To me it really goes down to strength, durability and finally the shield being the worse match for a sword. Both use firearms and grenades. Both fight lethal.

#100 Posted by jashro44 (22266 posts) - - Show Bio

@slimj87d:

No, breastplates are more solid, the best design probably being like samurai ones which Ironman's armor actually copies, the way a pate can collapse in itself. BP's are micro weaves like little chain links or something like that put together.

All right.

Something else I want to mention is again, a common thing they teach at self defense places is to choose a shield over a sword because it's offensive and defensive totalled together weigh out a lot more against a sword does which is more of a purely offensive weapon. Add in the fact that Steve can use his shield even far above a normal shield by throwing it and I think it is much more effective than Deathstroke's sword.

True but the shield can be dodged if slade is fast and skilled enough he could work around the shield. Not saying its a sure thing as I do believe this could go either way.

You did show some good durability feats for Deathstroke I am familiar with from his respect threads. But I still think Cap is consistently stronger and more durable. I'm judging this from their average showings where Steve has leaped off of buildings consistently with no damage to his bones. From the top of my head, when he argued with Wasp and just hopped off of the building, another time when he tackled silver surfer with his arms out fallings about 20 or more stories and the one I posted above where he kicks a armored big rig truck onto its side. He's taken face first hits from extremely heavy hitters like Hulk, Abomination and Juggernaut. And he's taken 50 ton blows from people 10 to 20 tonners wielding weapons. In this thread I calculated and proved that a sledgehammer produces about a force of 50 tons coming from a normal human. Lets just be safe and assume the bare minimum of 50 tons.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/blockbuster-vs-tombstone-625944/

And here he gets smacked with hammers by Nuke who is suppose to be his equal or even stronger.

But you showed the Titans giving Slade a good beating, but then again Batman hit Slade with his rifle in the face staggering him long enough for Batman to subdue him. So I think consistently Ult Cap has the durability showings.

I agree cap is more consistently durable however the point is slade himself is durable in his own right. And the issue I have with ultimate caps durability feat is there all blunt force. Slade does use various piercing weapons like his sword and various guns. Slade should be able to cut his arms, legs, head, anywhere that isn't protected by vibranium with his blade. Slades durability and healing factor might allow him to take a few hits from ultimate cap.

About the batman showing I would like to point out that it took batman a few hits to hurt Slade and he did let batman have a couple of free shots. And the second time batman is wailing on him batman did sneak up on him. I think it does show Wayne can take a small minority of wins on deathstroke but it seems pretty clear slade is batmans better.

Before I upload the scans I just want to say the image uploader is horrible on this site now and my images always upload backwards T_T...Sorry but I have to get that fixed so these scans aren't going to be in order.

Full showing encase anyone wants to see.

Here are the relevant panels:

"Okay I'm hurting---So you are good"
"Your last free shot batman"

It still doesn't make him more durable then ultimate cap but I feel like it was worth noting. I will admit that Batman did one shot slade before with a cheap shot from behind in superman/batman annual but I hear that series has a lot of PIS in it and it was a cheap shot. I was just showing that Slade is durable in his own right.

Speed, that's debatable.

I agree. Its why I am undecided.

Slade's healing factor might be better like you said, but the moment Cap gets a shield bash in, a continuous combo should take Slade out. That really goes for both of them. I don't think their healing factors matter her because whoever gets the good combo in it's pretty much over.

Well yes but if ultimate cap doesn't KO him quickly and slade knocks him off before he gets taken out he could hold out long enough to heal from the damage. With Slades sword ultimate cap isn't going to do a lot of healing.

I don't think Slade's tactical mind is that much superior to Caps. Both of them are team busters. Slade has given hell to the titans, jal, etc. Ultimate Cap has given trouble to the whole government when he had super soldier Captain Britain guys attack him, brotherhood of mutants and the Ultimate Avengers.

I can agree with that.

To me it really goes down to strength, durability and finally the shield being the worse match for a sword. Both use firearms and grenades. Both fight lethal.

I think it comes down to speed and skill personally. I can't decide who is faster or more skilled which is the main reason I am unsure here.