@SlimJ87D:Sure the healing factor is nice. But if Logan keeps slashing at him, that's going to be useless with the whole "knife wounds gone in just few minutes".
@SlimJ87D:Sure the healing factor is nice. But if Logan keeps slashing at him, that's going to be useless with the whole "knife wounds gone in just few minutes".
But he has his shield, it's not going to be easy to slash at him. You are aware of the difference between 616 and Ultimate version right? Here's a little from another user. Look at the scans and interpret them for yourself.
@CadenceV2 said:
@Shawnbaby
said:
@CadenceV2 said:
@Shawnbaby said:
@CadenceV2: If Ult BP isn't any good...Why did it take Cap 3 hours to beat him when he physically outclasses him?
Wow if ya read the scans (Which ya didnt....) then you read where Cap was testing him to see if he was worth being on the team.
Actually the scans don't say that. They just show Cap nd BP figthing. they also don't show Cap "effortlessly" beating BP. It shows they were fighting for 3 hours. That shows skill on BP's part.
During that whole battle cap could have ended it but was seeing what BP could bring to the table. BP skill is nothing to scoff at. caps was by far better.
If that dont float your fancy heres Cap kicking but on other Cap Knock offs with same Super strength and Dyrability as Ultimate Cap.
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DEAD. Exact Copy of Cap with a Lightsaber like weapon.
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DEAD. This Russian Cyborg made with Vision Parts been fighting Cyborg Monsters for 60 years in a Nuclear Prison.
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Nuke is the only guy to best Cap so far. He has the same powers and been non stop fighting since Vietnam. His skill is on par and was the most skilled Marine the Marine Corps had. SPARED.
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Cap takes down half of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants.
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How about when Cap sawm miles thru ocean and then beat down a city of Terrorist with Guns and RPGs easy.
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Or Cap with no weapons effortlessly beats Giant Man.
Or cap beating Ultimate Wolvie in one panel twice!!!
@SlimJ87D:I am aware of the difference, what made you think I wasn't?
And I didn't say he would cut threw the shield. Yea that will be hard but Wolverine is fast. I don't have many scans of bone claw but as for your Ultimate Cap beating Ultimate Wolverine. Doesn't bone claw Wolverine have a better healing factor? And was able to bring down a T-Rex with bone claws?
THERE is nothing cap can do to bone claw to keep him down wolverine had everybone in his upper body crushed and healed before he hit the ground that's not even one second actually. How much does a semi truck weigh and speeding there's no weigh cap can keep him down
@SlimJ87D:I am aware of the difference, what made you think I wasn't?
And I didn't say he would cut threw the shield. Yea that will be hard but Wolverine is fast. I don't have many scans of bone claw but as for your Ultimate Cap beating Ultimate Wolverine. Doesn't bone claw Wolverine have a better healing factor? And was able to bring down a T-Rex with bone claws?
I'll be the first to say Wolverine if one of the fastest Marvel street levelers out there, but Ultimate Cap isn't exactly slow.
Blocks Lightning attack from SS with no forwarning. Blocks Lightning attack from Russian SS twice with no warning. Dodges bullets from all direction. Captain Marvel was shot up. Reaction time to put the hurtin on Nick and block well aimed trangs with ease. dodges Nazi Gunfire . Block More gunfire effortlessly when fired on. Dodges Gunfire again from a Terrorist filled city.
Coupled with his shield and skill level, I'd put him above bone claw Wolvy. A shield haymaker might do the trick for a quick KO, Ult. Cap is very strong.
Enough to put a hurtin on Hulk.
And of course he's skilled enough to fight off an entire gang of 20 tonners, while all doped up on a mountain of sedatives, then tank a full Iron Man suit charge into the dirt and keep fighting.
@nickzambuto: I will say Ultimate Cap has the edge on strength and can tank a good amount of blows. But I feel like Wolverine still has the speed and agility in this battle.
I see it as he could get around the shield, because we both know he isn't even scratching it. And then stabbing/ slashing Cap and sadly finding bone claw scans are hard to find.
@jwalser3: Yes, bone claw Wolverine's healing is far faster and he has tanked hits from Hulk, being run over by cars, hits from Roughhouse and his son, Daken, has tanked hits from the likes of an enraged Thing and Skaar so his damage soak is still rather high. Without his adamantium, Wolverine is also more inclined to use his skill, he doesn't have the adamantium to weigh him down making him a bit faster IIRC and his bone claws have been shown sharp enough to cut through a decently thick plates of steel.
Stupid Wolverine loses and showcases his healing factor in a terrible beating.
Smart Wolverine would weather the storm with an outrageous healing factor and top tier skill. Smart Wolverine takes this fight. Ultimate Steve shouldn't soak too many claw punches to the face. And Wolverine using his skill would land numerous times.
That, and Bone Wolverine soaked more bullets than his adamantium laced counterpart. His healing was insane.
@jashro44: Yeah but bone claw Wolverine is very different. When you read his handbook entry, his adamantiunm skeleton actually helped support him lifting more weight above normal as there is less support overall. New pain in the bones and joints would be introduced.
His durability would actually lower, even though his healing factor is better, he risks breaking bones now. If a bullet goes through his head for example, that could give him a KO where is adamantium Wolverine it would just ricochet away.
We have to take all that into account as well.
Off topic, that's kind of weird that handbook entry lists him as 5'9" when he is actually like 5'5" or shorter.
@SlimJ87D: I was mostly just showing that hand book entry to show that ultimate cap shouldn't necessarily be considered to have spider-man level strength because of the grid. I agree we should take all that stuff into account (all though I didn't know adamantium help wolverine lift stuff)Do you have a scan of the entry that states this?
Ultimate Cap wins this. Wolverine without adamnatium just soaked damage to get to an opening which is a bad idea here. Ultimate Cap's laxed morals basically means he can take Wolverine's head off to win. Wolverine Morals On on the other hand won't try to kill someone like Captain America.
@CadenceV2: I'll reply to our challenge debate later this week. But Ultimate Cap's standard gear does not involve guns or grenades. On average, it's just his Shield.
@SlimJ87D: I was mostly just showing that hand book entry to show that ultimate cap shouldn't necessarily be considered to have spider-man level strength because of the grid. I agree we should take all that stuff into account (all though I didn't know adamantium help wolverine lift stuff)Do you have a scan of the entry that states this?
I do not with me right now and I would have to search it for you. I'm currently at work. But even Bullseye's entry was updated from my memory because he got his spine laced with adamantium and parts of his bones and he can now perform more intense acrobatic maneuvers and support more weight.
If you could look into it.
EDIT:
Well I'm going to be busy all day but I went and found some stuff. It might be here or in the newer entries.
@Frozen: I would agree to disagree for the resons I stated. He has mutiple showings with ARs and Grenades and employs them often.
Again would anyone here run into a Batman Thread and say "His standard gear is a Utility Belts, he doesnt always have Batarangs, Explosive Rangs, Gas Capsules, ect ect"?
No cause then the Scans and mutiple Proof of showings pop up (like I did) to show he has that stuff and uses it alot.
@Frozen: I would agree to disagree for the resons I stated. He has mutiple showings with ARs and Grenades and employs them often.
Again would anyone here run into a Batman Thread and say "His standard gear is a Utility Belts, he doesnt always have Batarangs, Explosive Rangs, Gas Capsules, ect ect"?
No cause then the Scans and mutiple Proof of showings pop up (like I did) to show he has that stuff and uses it alot.
He has a few showings, yes but he does not use them all the time. Look at all of his showings, he has a few stand out appearances with them. Batman's standard gear is his Utility-Belt and it is generally assumed that characters are fighting to the best of their ability.
@CadenceV2: Ultimate captain america has had quite a few more showings than that. Maybe I'm just not that well read enough on him but from what I have seen he seems to mostly just have that shield. Even if those guns are standard gear I would end up taking them away in all honesty. I think the fight is more fair if he just has the shield and Kevlar suit. If people start telling me wolverine stomps ultimate captain america when he only has his shield and Kevlar suit I will edit the op to make things more fair but as it stands I'm only leaving the shield and the suit.
@jwalser3: i looked at your strength feat but I don't get it. Did you post the right strength feat? His claws aren't cutting through the shield either.
The healing factor is not Cap's problem in this. It's Wolverines skill. Herr Kleiser literally healed instantly. Kerr Kleiser was far stronger than Captain America, he was lifting trucks and throwing them. He was also really a chitari and fought in an alien like matter being super humanly faster, double jointed and quite agile. He was also taking hits from the Hulk and wouldn't die because he kept healing instantly. It took the Hulk to eat him and shred him apart and Nick Fury thought he would still heal from a pile of poo so they had to separate his body apart and dispose of him that way.
Even though Wolverines healing factor is better than it normally is I don't think it is as good as Kleiser or he is actually as durable as Kleiser was an alien and could talk and fight with his head smashed apart.
Captain America was able to hurt him multiple times and used his shield to cut him in half. This guy is more durable than Wolverine too and again he was throwing trucks around.
I think Wolverines skills are what will make the fight difficult and his beastly berserker rage instinct. But Ultimate Captain America is very well skilled too. People don't gauge his skill well because he's not fighting 616 fighters with years of established history. But when you do look at his fights and see the strikes he performs, he fights very well. Usually kicking and striking at the joints. When he was fighting that 10 tonner monster he performed a good midair leg lock.
@SlimJ87D:I was trying to show that they could cut steel and cut threw stone, just to show that they're not weak.
And yes I think Caps strength will help, and I already said "Ultimate Cap has the edge in strength". Now while Wolverine is not a 10 tonner, I still think he is fast with the 0.38 reaction time, can regrow his bone claws, and like you said having skills. Also I do believe there is a scan with Wolverine withstanding joint and nerve strike.
Also like to point out that the bullets the team fired into Wolverine was adamantium bullets.
Whats so different fromAdamnatium Bullets and Rgular again? It not like some design bullet to kill Wolvie with that HF. Not sure what kind of feat this is?
@jwalser3: A Bullet that Mushrooms creates more stooping power through the Impact. Bullet that Shatters are for more internal Damage. A Solid hard round like that is used for Penetration which is not needed for Bone Claw Wolvie at all. He is easily penetrated by Ammo.
Its a strange Panel from a strange writer I guess.
@CadenceV2:I assumed since it was a hard metal the impact force would make bigger wounds and what not. But any way, it still shows him taking machince gun fire :p.
Captain America, and pretty easily. At the end of the day, Captain America isn't going to stop against Wolverine because Wolvie is down. Yes, Wolverine CAN regenerate from the dead, and fairly quickly. But Captain America knows Wolverine, or at least a roughly equal version of Wolverine, and if he's fighting to win, he's going to pop a couple grenades in Wolverine's corpse and watch it rain...
I haven't read much Ultimate Captain America (but I really did like him a lot more than his 616 counterpart, because he was by far a superior soldier), but I've read a lot of Wolverine. Plus I've seen @cadencev2 make his Ultimate Captain America argument 50 times over, and quite a few feats from others, so here's what I see:
Strength: Captain America, and by no small margin. The guy is about a 4-5 ton hero from what I've seen. Without his adamantium, Wolverine is maybe an 800 ton hero?
Durability: Captain America, again, by no small margin. Captain comes with a practically indestructible shield, wears modern military armor (which I've personally seen take 30+ standard issue rounds from an AK-47 without any sort of penetration), is armored head to toe, and his base durability allows him to get thrown through walls without much harm. Wolverine can't tank an arrow, much less a bullet, without succumbing to injury.
Striking Power: Captain America. Wolverine "cutting through steel" seems impressive and all, but that's not plated steel he's going against. Captain America is blowing through plated steel, cutting people in half, carries grenades, carries fire arms (which can go through non-plated steel with ease), and his standard attacks will likely shatter bone.
Healing Factor: Wolverine. They both have a factor, but Wolvie's is far superior, allowing him to even come back from the dead.
Skill: About equal, but the edge goes to Captain America. Wolverine is a berserker. He's stated himself, multiple times, that he needs to get warmed up in a fight before he really cuts lose. The problem is, Captain America doesn't need to "warm up". He'll come in with all he's got, as best as he can bring it, and that's going to put Wolverine at a disadvantage very early in the game, and I see it costing him.
Speed: Could go either way. I see all these scans of Wolverine going against the worst marksman and fighters in fictional history, and they look impressive on the face of it. But mainstream Marvel doesn't have any real groups of fighters that have shown any respectable levels of skill. In fact, Ultimate Marvel hasn't shown any either. At the end of the day, Ultimate Captain America's opponents have shown a level of reflexes and speed that allows me to conclude he is probably around Wolverine's level of speed.
Agility: Wolverine in strides. He's demonstrated that he's an Olympic level gymnast, and Ultimate Cap just hasn't.
Overall: I just don't think Wolverine can take this. Adamantium would be a different story, but bone claw is going to have to land a lot of blows in quick succession to have any chance of harming Ultimate Captain America. Wolverine, on the other hand, can only hope to avoid Captain America's blows, any attack Steve lands will only serve to hinder Logan more and more. Ultimately (pun kind of intended), Captain America is just...superior.
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