Ulic Qel-Droma vs Cade Skywalker

• Both in their prime
• No prior knowledge
• Fight to the death

R1- Morals on

R2- Morals off

Siding with Cade. Both were the best swords men / fighters of the era's. I'm not seeing much one way or the other there.

Cade's force abilities win this for him.

This.

A good chance for Qel droma in the second round due to Gauntlets, even though he has no feats with them.

Bump.

Ulic's gauntlets aren't more powerful than Cade's Protection Bubble. In fact, Ulic's offensive Force powers are completely meaningless in this scenario. His chances would be through skill.

Bump

Actually rooting for Ulic.

Ulic

Could go either way. Ulic is more skilled, Cade is more powerful.

Care to explain, why?

For anyone who's unsure:

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/i_like_swords/blog/ulic-qel-droma-respect-thread/101350/

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/darthant66/blog/cade-skywalker-respect-thread/97726/

Ulic isn't more skilled at all, in my opinion. It's just that he has chances through that, since you can beat somebody more skilled than you for a minority of rounds if you're very close to them.

I dunno who's more skilled between these two. A solid case could be made for Ulic being marginally more skilled, though. In terms of power, I am pretty sure Cade is offensively superior, though Qel-Droma is defensively superior and can handle most of Cade's attacks. Speed goes to Qel-Droma, and I am not sure who's stronger.

Ulic hasn't shown anything in the slightest to suggest superior skill.

@shootingnova: Wouldn't stalemating Exar Kun count for something? Not saying he wins, but Ulic seems a bit more skilled IMHO.

@jacthripper: Why would stalemating Exar be a better feat than Cade's showings? What has Exar at that time done to suggest that he's more skilled than Cade?

My respect thread is way better.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/cade-skywalker-respect-thread-1639297/?page=1/

In my opinion there is no proof Ulik is superior in speed at all. Cade has contend with Krayt in even battles, and we all know who Krayt fought in terms of skill and speed.

Cade skill is better IMO too. He makes excellent use of hand to hand with force attacks in lightsaber combat, matches the most skilled Sith of his time like Talon, Nihl, and Krayt. These Sith contrary to popular belief have excellent showings and accolades to their skill. Cade takes on hordes of 3rd generation train Sith in combat and come out on top through Lightsaber alone.

Then there is the major fact Cade's Force Powers offensively trump Uliks, and I argue Cade's Force barrier is way superior as well.

Cade should win a handy majority.

Ulic's skill and artifacts are enough to stop Cade from winning handily, but I'd still support Cade.

Uliq wins a good majority. Pretty good fight, though.

@shootingnova: Mostly accolades, Kun was considered a very skilled duelist in his time. I'd back Cade thoug, his skill isn't much lower, and his force abilities are quite useful here.

@jacthripper: His accolades don't exactly suggest that he's more skilled than Cade.

Battling Silvar while cut off from the force does.

@shootingnova: Cades feats don't exactly say he's more skilled than Kun either, he beat Krayt (I believe most say he cheapshotted him) and Krayt was beaten by an out of shape Obi-Wan in an environment that favored Hett, and had no suggestions that his skilled had increased by any major margin over the course of his life.

Hardly. It involves him repelling a blow or two and retreating, rinse and repeat until he was cornered. I mean, it's good as a reaction feat, and to an extent, skill feat, but hardly above what Cade has shown. It's a good feat but honestly exaggerated.

@shootingnova: They're probably equal skill with Ulic having greater strength feats

Krayt's hardly the only feat he has to offer. Beating Nihl and Talon decisively is a better feat, both of whom are fairly respectable swordsmen in their own right. Talon's beaten a pair of Jedi who could slay groups of Sith fighters, whilst Nihl has stomped one of those aforementioned Jedi (in a later contest, he still obtains the edge within only two panels), and Nihl's also supposed to be more skilled than Talon as well. None of Kun or Ulic's opponents exceed Nihl or Talon, or are even on par with them, to be honest.

And I never said that Cade is more skilled than Kun, only that Ulic and Kun at the time of his clash with Ulic weren't above Cade.

@shootingnova: I see your point

One problem I have with the SW universe is it becomes person beats person, who in turn beat fodder, who in turn beat fodder.

@jacthripper: That's how it has to be, eventually.

@shootingnova: True

Kinda applies for most battles now that I think about it...

Not necessarily. There are plenty of ways to make cross-era comparisons if you put in enough effort. For instance, Ulic as a swordfighter is more than likely a peer for RotJ Luke, because of creator commentary stating as much. At least, Ulic would be in Luke's ballpark at that time, which is a good gauge. And while Cade certainly went up against better opposition barring Exar, Ulic's feat against Sylvar was done under pretty awful circumstances; he had zero connection to the Force, and was 10 years past his physical prime. Sylvar had a physical advantage in every category, precognition, passive Force senses etc, whereas Ulic was fighting purely on skill alone. Ulic wasn't winning, obviously, but Sylvar was incapable of breaking through his guard. And Ulic was holding back from fighting back, so it's even arguable that he could have pressed Sylvar if he wanted to. I know Nova gets sick of hearing about that feat, but it's actually a very good one.

Cade's shown his skill in different ways; by beating Nihl in close contests, by basically overpowering Talon repeatedly, by holding his own against Krayt, by slaying legions of fodder, and so on. Cade did kill better fodder than Ulic to be fair (Krayt's Sith Troopers are pretty insane), but Ulic's fodder were still at least blade-wielding dark siders who were being amplified by Onderon's dark side energy, which was also constantly weakening Ulic. Ulic's stalemating Exar also shouldn't really be ignored; as a padawan alone Kun was considered one of if not the best duelists of the Jedi, and during that time it was stated in the Tales of the Jedi Companion that there was a spike in the number of master swordfighters being produced because of frequent conflicts.

I feel like both of these guys get underrated on the dueling front somewhat. It's either way for me.

@dccomicsrule2011: I think he is the better swordsman and has the ability to get in close and quick to face Cade. Just my thoughts.

Cade's Dark Transfer would f*ck over Ulic because of the long term injury he received from the Krath's ambush and Cade's exploited less serious injuries and made them fatal.

@redranger: Hadn't thought of that actually.. good point.

Except Krayt was way more powerful in every way after hif fight with Obi Wan, and how was 2 years after Clone Wars Obi Wan out of shape when Obi Wan two decades later match ANH Vader? Thats not excuse and not supported either. Heck Krayt has accolades like so.

Krayt while holding back much power thanks to his Vong Parasites consuming him in the most painful way, easily takes out scores of Imperial Knights in a blitz.

Imperial Knights all fully train to be equals of Jedi of the era.

"Despite opinions to the contrary, Imperial Knights is every bit as capable in the use of Force as their Jedi Counterparts, though their skill has considerably more martial focus.

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They are warriors first and foremost, not negotiators, and make no excuses for this fact.

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Another Difference between Jedi and the Impwerial Knights is that the Imperial Knights train strictly for combat, not contemplation.

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Imperial Knights are among the most talented and dangerous Force users in the galaxy.

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From the start of their training until they reach full knighthood, the Imperial Knights learn how to use the Force to transform themselves into living weapons and shields."

- Legacy Era Campaign Guide

"Skilled in the art of lightsaber combat, the Imperial Knights use many of the same combat training techniques as the Jedi, and have learned to fight in many of the same lightsaber dueling styles. However, the Imperial Knights are also the masters of two unique lightsaber combat forms that place greater emphasis on teamwork the the individuals prowess. The more aggressive style, known as Praetoria Vonil, focuses on moving quickly and striking hard. The more defensive style, known as Praetoria Ishu, emphasizes protecting one's allies to allow them to find a openings in an opponent defenses.

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The Imperial Knights were wear specially design crafted armor that uses material found in the armor of one of the greatest Imperial duelist of all time, Darth Vader. Where Darth Vader's armor was built to intimidate as well protect, the Imperial Knights wear armor that is purely functional. That, combined with their lightsaber and Cortisis gauntlets, leaves them constantly prepared for combat no matter where they are.

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The Imperial Knights are skilled with both the lightsaber and with the Force, and make extensive use of combat armor, including their special Cortisis gauntlets design to stop lightsaber attacks."

- Legacy Era Campaign Guide

So what have I showed thus far...

• Training in all 7 forms of lightsaber combat, and masters of 2 forms that excel in team work.
• Never training their force powers as philosophers, only in sever martial uses.
• Stated as the most dangerous force users in the galaxy.
• Wear lightsaber resistant armor like Vader, and lightsaber stopping gauntlets.

Thats impressive..... how well does a dying Krayt fair againt them?

This is Krayt dying from Vong Implants. This is Krayt at his weakest as a Sith lord.

Gallery

Here is Krayt in his weakest form decimating 4 Knights at a time. Knights who are all train to fight first and foremost, have lightsaber resistant gear, and 2 unknown to Krayt lightsaber forms dealing with their teamwork.

Even his state of weaken he took down the best Fodder in the galaxy at the time with ease. Not inlcuding his weaken state when fighting Morne, or his weaken state fighting Cade who he pretty much matched easy in their first battle.

Cade match blades with Krayt and blitzed him in the final blow before Krayt could defend himself. A less experience Cade took on Nihl, Talon, and then Krayt in a gauntlet before that. Cade still took on groups of 3rd Generation Train Sith all the time by himself with only his Lightsaber as well.

Ulic

That is a good point too.

Ulic wins

Fair enough.

@sirfizzwhizz: Cade lost to Krayt and never blitzed him. He won by cheapshotting an unsuspecting Krayt.

Disagree. Krayt had all eyes on him, and Cade had his back to him. It took more effort for Cade to turn around, jump up, and then stab Krayt then Krayt to defend from such a easy to block attack. In short he was speed blitz. There was nothing "Unsuspecting" about it. Cade even states his intention to attack before he does it.

Gallery

As seen Cade makes his intention clear, and even has to retrieve his saber which is no doubt a form of hostility. Its no different than raising a gun to you. He had his back turn as seen, yet manages to turn around, jump in the air, and stab Krayt when all Krayt had to do was raise his sabers to block. Cade had more to do, and ground to cover than Krayt who just had to block. Clear speed blitz to me.

lol Cade was clearly incapable of beating Krayt in that duel, so the notion that he could actually blitz him is ridiculous. And he never stated his intention before he attacked - he did it when he attacked. If Cade could have blitzed Krayt, he would've done so at the beginning instead of losing the fight.

Krayt thought Cade was his apprentice, it's just one of those PIS-cheapshots like Quinlan and Sora.

Cade Skywalker dead 7/10

Disagree. There is no excuse for Krayt to not have been able to block in time. Krayt Saber was still on, and Cade still had to do alot more in his attack than Krayt to just block. Its simple science really. Unless you want to think Krayt was sleeping the whole time it took Cade to retrieve his Lightsaber (again, thats like a foe who might want to kill you raising a gun up to shoot), and then the time and effort for Cade to turn around, jump in the air, and stab.

Thats four things Cade had to do. What did Krayt have to do to stop the "cheap shot"? Raise his sabers. Thats all.

Im sorry you think this clear speed blitz, whether a intentional or heat of the moment feat or not, is simply a cheap shot, the science in what Cade had to do and what Krayt had to do shows other wise.

@i_like_swords I am sure sees the logic in what I perceive here.

Qui-gon shows up and kills them both.

@sirfizzwhizz: So why did Cade not speedblitz him from the onset of the fight? lol He clearly had no evident speed edge over Krayt at the beginning of the fight.

What did Sidious have to do to stop Vader from throwing him over? Turn around and kill Vader with the Force? That sort of logic just doesn't work.

I kinda agree with the underline. Cade was kinda of a mental wreck before fighting Krayt, thinking he was going to die anyway or turn Sith from all the visions he had before their final battle. In the end he saw himself in Krayt. Then he sort of accepted it all, and as said decided he was a Jedi, something h NEVER admitted before then. Same reason Luke won over Vader with rage, Cade seem to blitz Krayt after accepting this realization.

Their is much context and shown proof to Cades mental state before this final clash, and during it as well which is shown in the scans I posted right before he attacks.

I am unsure why all this is ignored or simply brushed off. Call it a amp accepting the Force rather than trying to force it like he had. Maybe it can be explain that Cade was simply mentally unhinge at the beginning of the fight much like Anakin skills and powers suffered in the RotS for mental problems.

All that seems perfectly reasonable reasons.

Also the Vader metaphor is not a good comparison. Sidious did not know Vader was going to attack him till Vader had him in his hands already. By them it was too late, Palpatine whole attention was on Luke, unlike this instance of Krayt and Cade. Not a good comparison at all.

@sirfizzwhizz: It was PIS. Cade caught him off-guard. It happens. It's the same scenario as Quinlan Vos vs Bulq or TPM Kenobi vs Maul.