Reacting to a lightning means nothing in his league, Pain wasn't even bothered by Kakashi who literally cut a lightning in two (Which is in fact a better speed feat than the one that Itachi had, as he was clearly aware that a lightning was coming at him, in fact, Sasuke explicity said that he was going to use a lighting against him, so that reaction time feat isn't better than anything that Naruto have done. Yes, I'm going to destroy the lifes of many Uchihas fans, but this madness needs to stop.)
Except for the fact that Itachi was handling KCM Naruto and Killer Bee simultaneously.
Gallery
*Pardon the translation. Can't find my old scans.*
Don't pretend like 6 Paths Pain has better physicals than that of a healthy Itachi, who single-handedly held his own Negato, unlike Naruto or Bee.
Reacting to a lightning means nothing in his league, Pain wasn't even bothered by Kakashi who literally cut a lightning in two (Which is in fact a better speed feat than the one that Itachi had, as he was clearly aware that a lightning was coming at him, in fact, Sasuke explicity said that he was going to use a lighting against him, so that reaction time feat isn't better than anything that Naruto have done. Yes, I'm going to destroy the lifes of many Uchihas fans, but this madness needs to stop.)
Except for the fact that Itachi was handling KCM Naruto and Killer Bee simultaneously.
Gallery
*Pardon the translation. Can't find my old scans.*
Don't pretend like 6 Paths Pain has better physicals than that of a healthy Itachi, who single-handedly held his own Negato, unlike Naruto or Bee.
Pain is much above Itachi, to whomever was ''arguing'' that. It's not a contest. They're nowhere near.
Seriously, don't start this one. It's not a debate anyone wins, believe me.
Naruto was only trying to talk to him at the start of the fight, later, Itachi tried to contend against Bee and had to retreat from his Kenjutsu.
Also, he needed help to stop the Chibaku Tensei and Nagato easily countered every jutsu that Itachi sent at him, in fact, he was only caught by the Totsuka because Itachi had a cheap shot and caught him distracted, otherwise, it would be absorbed as well. They aren't really in the same league.
(2) Naruto isn't an idiot, he just sounds like one, after fail one time he can adapt his strategies, like as he did against the 6-Paths (I should mention again that kyuubi hasn't defeated any body at all, Naruto did that in his base mode). Naruto can keep clones around gathering Senjutsu Chakra for him, at the moment he could with three at time, and even entered the sage mode after less than a minute, if any chakra reserve here is low, its Sasuke, Naruto have a lot of energy at his disposal.After each Mangekyo Technique, his eyesight would be compromised, he couldn't even keep the Susanoo active for more than a few minutes, which is far less than the Sage Mode duration.
I think you meant to say Itachi instead of Sasuke but I get what you're saying. If he has a bunch of clones running at him he won't resort to using the mangekyo sharingan on fodder. His taijutsu is good enough to dodge and parry the attacks of his brawling fodder clones and not to mention his fire style. The only time he needs to use Susano'o is in extreme emergencies. If he has like 20 rasenshurikens flying at him and he can't dodge them (like Pain easily did). He couldn't keep Susano'o active for more than a couple minutes AFTER fighting Sasuke for an hour and then tanking Kirin. Turning it on and off for a couple of seconds at a time shouldn't be a problem.
Also, show me scans of Itachi hitting someone with the Totsuka blade that is remotely close to Naruto in terms of speed. The fact is that this is impossible, he never pierced anybody in an actual fight, Orochimaru wasn't in position to evade and he caught Nagato by surprise, which is impossible against someone who got precognition and a reaction time that is better than anybody that he ever fought.
Naruto's sage mode will run out eventually. He loses a lot of his speed once he goes into base mode. You've seen Itachi's pinpoint accuracy and speed with kunai. He can literally fight off hundreds of fodder clones and then throw projectiles at the meditating and still taking on the Naruto clones at the same time. Plus he's smart enough to figure out what the clones are doing. Once Naruto runs out of sage mode, Itachi won't let him go back to it.
Reacting to a lightning means nothing in his league, Pain wasn't even bothered by Kakashi who literally cut a lightning in two (Which is in fact a better speed feat than the one that Itachi had, as he was clearly aware that a lightning was coming at him,
Kakashi never threw any lightning speed techniques at Pain during their fight.
It's time to give honour to the real lightning timers from Naruto (There are many, but that specific instance isn't one of them).
in fact, Sasuke explicity said that he was going to use a lighting against him, so that reaction time feat isn't better than anything that Naruto have done. Yes, I'm going to destroy the lifes of many Uchihas fans, but this madness needs to stop.)
Itachi still didn't activate Susano'o until the split second before Kirin came out from the sky. Sasuke threw his hand down (signaling Kirin to shoot down) and then, right before the giant lightning bolt came down, there was a bright light and THEN Itachi activated it. It doesn't matter if he was warned or saw it coming. The fact is that he activated it as soon as the lightning bolt came down. He literally activated it sometime after the bright light, but before the lightning hit the Uchiha hideout. It still counts as a lightning timing feat.
Itachi wins his fights with tricks, illusions and by deceiving his opponent, he isn't and will never be a speedster, and we have proof that even people at the level of Killer Bee (Nothing to have shame of, Sasuke couldn't even read his movements) can keep him at bay.
Itachi wasn't even seriously trying to fight Killer Bee though. He was giving him pointers and warning him. If Itachi wanted to he could have just shot amaterasu at Bee when he was swinging his swords around and jumping toward him. Instead he backed up and then jumped away and said "That's enough. Kotoamatsukami time." Also, we've seen Itachi effectively keep up with KCM Naruto and his speed. KCM is on par with sage mode. He's got some good speed.
The Totsuka Blade can be avoided and never actually tagged anyone in combat, the Amaterasu can fail, and if someone have the wits to deceive Itachi (Who never opens a fight with Amaterasu), its Naruto and his clones (His opening move always, in every single battle that he had in the series, except against Sasuke).
He doesn't even need to use it to seal/stab Naruto, he can use it as a giant sword and swing and slash it at him. The totsuka blade effortlessly chopped the heads of 2-3 giant snakes at once in a split second without any indication of struggling. Imagine what one swing would do to Naruto. Also, keep in mind the size of the blade.
Look at that length. At the very least, that's gotta be several meters.
If Itachi miss an amaterasu, his chakra reserves would suffer a large impact. He also never starts with Tsukuyomi, and the jutsu can be countered like any genjutsu from Itachi, as it was said in panel multiple times, it can be easily avoided by not looking into his eyes. With support from the frogs (That can wake Naruto from the genjutsus, or he can just do that with kage bunshins).
I think you are really taking the 'low chakra reserves' thing way too seriously. You have to remember that Itachi fought Kakashi, Kurenai, Asuma, Guy AND used Tsukuyomi (twice), normal genjutsu, and several other techniques AND on top of all of that, he used amaterasu one last time (against Jiraiya's technique) all in one day and he was still able to run away without any signs of exhaustion or fatigue. He should be fine. Also, aren't sage mode users immune to genjutsu? I was operating under the assumption that Itachi couldn't, nor wouldn't use genjutsu here. I remember hearing that somewhere. If that's not true then I will change my debating style immediately and Naruto will get stomped.
(3) Naruto isn't a moron, as we've seen against pain, he is the most inventive battle strategist from the entire series, in fact, I'm going even further and saying that he is leagues upon leagues above Itachi in that department, unless you can show me a combat situation where Itachi showed greater analysis and creativity than Naruto (I'm foreseeing the mention to the fight against Nagato if I'm right).
Naruto never really does anything that impressive or creative... He pretty much just throws a bunch of shadow clones, hopes it works, and then capitalizes with a trick or final technique if it doesn't. The only reason he was being even somewhat inventive or creative against Pain was because he had to deal with Pain's unique abilities. You think he would have disguised a shadow clone as a rasenshuriken if he wasn't dealing with an absorbing opponent? You think he would have attacked from above with smoke if his opponent didn't have linked vision? See what I'm saying?
@106me: Itachi wasn't handling Naruto and Bee, Naruto didn't even try to attack him. Itachi has no speed feats that allow him to react to KCM Naruto's speed if Naruto wants to fight him.
Sasuke had superior eyes to Itachi and he could not keep track of V2 Ay. Naruto is faster than him. And Itachi was an Edo, i.e. he was not weak like he was while alive.
Pain has counters for anything Itachi has, Itachi has no counter to Chibaku Tensei.
@unrelenting: He doesn't have to keep Susano'o on. If he notices Naruto charging up a rasenshuriken he can just activate it, block it, and then turn it back off. Even if Naruto manages to surprise Itachi with a surprise rasenshuriken, Itachi has been shown to have lightning speed reflexes when it comes to activating it. Naruto's best attacks will have no effect.
@hiddenlight: I'm only going to debate further via CAV. This sort of thing can't be settled in a thread like this. If you're interested, I'll start up a Negato vs Itachi thread, but otherwise, I'm not going to continue this.
@106me: Itachi wasn't handling Naruto and Bee, Naruto didn't even try to attack him. Itachi has no speed feats that allow him to react to KCM Naruto's speed if Naruto wants to fight him.
Naruto was throwing punches while Bee jumped in from behind and tried to slash at him with Samehada. I think it's very clear they were fighting to at least injure, or even kill.
Sasuke had superior eyes to Itachi and he could not keep track of V2 Ay.
I don't recall that.
Naruto is faster than him.
Absolutely.
And Itachi was an Edo, i.e. he was not weak like he was while alive.
Well, he was dying of cancer for one. For two, edo only allows for unlimited chakra usage. None of his jutsus were amped. I don't see this being a problem for Itachi if all he loses in his healthy state, non-edo state is his usage of unlimited chakra.
Pain has counters for anything Itachi has,
What is Negato's answer to Totsuka, Yata, Tsukuyomi, or even Izanami? And Negato can only use Shinra Tensei every 5 seconds, so if an out-of-character Itachi wants to, he can spam Amaterasu on Negato like he doesn't give a crap.
Itachi has no counter to Chibaku Tensei.
Yes he does. He already showed it in when he used Yasaka Magatama on it. And yes, Naruto and Bee were there too, but if Naruto's Bijuu Dama got past the outer layers of the rock when he went eight tails on Pein, I don't see why Itachi couldn't use Yasaka Tensei to at least escape from Chibaku Tensei like Naruto did.
''Naruto was throwing punches while Bee jumped in from behind and tried to slash at him with Samehada. I think it's very clear they were fighting to at least injure, or even kill.''
No they weren't. Naruto never fought to kill in the whole series. Furthermore Naruto was at under 10% of his power as he had already made a dozen clones to send to war when he fought Itachi.
''I don't recall that.''
Ay dodges Amaterasu then blitzes Sasuke. Dodging Amaterasu = outrunning the Sharingan.
'' For two, edo only allows for unlimited chakra usage. None of his jutsus were amped. I don't see this being a problem for Itachi if all he loses in his healthy state, non-edo state is his usage of unlimited chakra.''
Being an Edo takes away all physical weakness. Hiruzen was so weak he could only make 2 clones when he died. But when he's an Edo he makes 5 giant jutsus to counter Zetsu's Shinsuusenju. He's also much faster and stronger than in life.
''Yes he does. He already showed it in when he used Yasaka Magatama on it.''
ill go with itachi, itachi can place him under genjutsu in a matter of seconds, not only that he has solid unbreaking armor Susanoo, and he even has amatarasu, if naruto get catched by the black flames, then its done for him!!
Itachi is the 1v1 king. Naruto stands no chance if he gets Tsukuyomi-ed. In sage mode, Itachi is probably around same speed, let alone fact he is far far more versatile. Naruto would be getting Genjutsu-ed for days, let alone fact he has no counter for Amateratsu, Susanno or Yata mirror/ Totsuka. Itachi would just use clones, and Genjutsu to comply mess with naruto, and then finish him with a amateratsu tsukuyomi or Totsuka. KCM Naruto would be a much better fight.
Lol please.Naruto has met Itachi's genjutsu more than once.He knows not to look into Itachi's eyes and has also learnt about Finger Genjutsu.He has adapted fairly well.Itachi has no chance of putting him in genjutsu without forcing a mistake.Alternatively, he can use Ma and Pa to get out if he ever is caught.
If he tries to force eye contact for Tsukuyomi/Genjutsu in CQC he gets one shotted by Frog Kata.
Lol please.Naruto has met Itachi's genjutsu more than once.He knows not to look into Itachi's eyes and has also learnt about Finger Genjutsu.He has adapted fairly well.Itachi has no chance of putting him in genjutsu without forcing a mistake.Alternatively, he can use Ma and Pa to get out if he ever is caught.
If he tries to force eye contact for Tsukuyomi/Genjutsu in CQC he gets one shotted by Frog Kata.
Naruto has no defense to genjutsu and has never adapted well to attacks that have beaten him in the past. See his fight with Edo Nagato.
Lol please.Naruto has met Itachi's genjutsu more than once.He knows not to look into Itachi's eyes and has also learnt about Finger Genjutsu.He has adapted fairly well.Itachi has no chance of putting him in genjutsu without forcing a mistake.Alternatively, he can use Ma and Pa to get out if he ever is caught.
If he tries to force eye contact for Tsukuyomi/Genjutsu in CQC he gets one shotted by Frog Kata.
Naruto has no defense to genjutsu
Except for knowing everything about it and how to avoid it.
Lol please.Naruto has met Itachi's genjutsu more than once.He knows not to look into Itachi's eyes and has also learnt about Finger Genjutsu.He has adapted fairly well.Itachi has no chance of putting him in genjutsu without forcing a mistake.Alternatively, he can use Ma and Pa to get out if he ever is caught.
If he tries to force eye contact for Tsukuyomi/Genjutsu in CQC he gets one shotted by Frog Kata.
has never adapted well to attacks that have beaten him in the past. See his fight with Edo Nagato.
How does this matter when Nagato is more versatile and much harder to counter?And the fact that Nagato is > KCM Naruto while Itachi is below him?
Not to mention he was only hit by ST and nearly defeated by Soul stealing (Which he didn't have knowledge of IIRC).
SM Naruto isn't getting caught in a genjutsu at all, unless Itachi forces a mistake.
As for everything else, SM Naruto has counters for everything Itachi can throw at him while Itachi has no counter for several techniques from Naruto.
Lol please.Naruto has met Itachi's genjutsu more than once.He knows not to look into Itachi's eyes and has also learnt about Finger Genjutsu.He has adapted fairly well.Itachi has no chance of putting him in genjutsu without forcing a mistake.Alternatively, he can use Ma and Pa to get out if he ever is caught.
If he tries to force eye contact for Tsukuyomi/Genjutsu in CQC he gets one shotted by Frog Kata.
Naruto has no defense to genjutsu
Except for knowing everything about it and how to avoid it.
Lol please.Naruto has met Itachi's genjutsu more than once.He knows not to look into Itachi's eyes and has also learnt about Finger Genjutsu.He has adapted fairly well.Itachi has no chance of putting him in genjutsu without forcing a mistake.Alternatively, he can use Ma and Pa to get out if he ever is caught.
If he tries to force eye contact for Tsukuyomi/Genjutsu in CQC he gets one shotted by Frog Kata.
has never adapted well to attacks that have beaten him in the past. See his fight with Edo Nagato.
How does this matter when Nagato is more versatile and much harder to counter?And the fact that Nagato is > KCM Naruto while Itachi is below him?
Not to mention he was only hit by ST and nearly defeated by Soul stealing (Which he didn't have knowledge of IIRC).
SM Naruto isn't getting caught in a genjutsu at all, unless Itachi forces a mistake.
As for everything else, SM Naruto has counters for everything Itachi can throw at him while Itachi has no counter for several techniques from Naruto.
Naruto knew about the finger genjutsu and how to break it. he still failed. he also knew everything about Pain and still got almost soul stealed by Nagato and got his jutsu absorbed twice.
And ma and pa have literally NEVER been used in battle with naruto. So they're irrelevant.
Lol please.Naruto has met Itachi's genjutsu more than once.He knows not to look into Itachi's eyes and has also learnt about Finger Genjutsu.He has adapted fairly well.Itachi has no chance of putting him in genjutsu without forcing a mistake.Alternatively, he can use Ma and Pa to get out if he ever is caught.
If he tries to force eye contact for Tsukuyomi/Genjutsu in CQC he gets one shotted by Frog Kata.
Naruto has no defense to genjutsu
Except for knowing everything about it and how to avoid it.
Lol please.Naruto has met Itachi's genjutsu more than once.He knows not to look into Itachi's eyes and has also learnt about Finger Genjutsu.He has adapted fairly well.Itachi has no chance of putting him in genjutsu without forcing a mistake.Alternatively, he can use Ma and Pa to get out if he ever is caught.
If he tries to force eye contact for Tsukuyomi/Genjutsu in CQC he gets one shotted by Frog Kata.
has never adapted well to attacks that have beaten him in the past. See his fight with Edo Nagato.
How does this matter when Nagato is more versatile and much harder to counter?And the fact that Nagato is > KCM Naruto while Itachi is below him?
Not to mention he was only hit by ST and nearly defeated by Soul stealing (Which he didn't have knowledge of IIRC).
SM Naruto isn't getting caught in a genjutsu at all, unless Itachi forces a mistake.
As for everything else, SM Naruto has counters for everything Itachi can throw at him while Itachi has no counter for several techniques from Naruto.
Naruto knew about the finger genjutsu and how to break it. he still failed. he also knew everything about Pain and still got almost soul stealed by Nagato and got his jutsu absorbed twice.
And ma and pa have literally NEVER been used in battle with naruto. So they're irrelevant.
A vastly weaker version of Naruto failed to break Itachi's genjutsu.
Breaking genjutsu is all about disrupting the flow of chakra, which Sage mode would do.
Naruto knows every way Itachi can put you under genjutsu, he is not falling to it.Your Nagato example doesn't matter since Itachi is far less versatile and easier to counter.
Did you just skip the Naruto vs Pain fight? Ma and Pa were at his side.....
@itachi_totsukablitz: I think when it comes to taijutsu Naruto has the edge but I feel Itachi has a big edge in genjutsu and a slight edge in ninjutsu. I am assuming this is naruto before his power up from the sage of six paths though. Basically kage summit Naruto.
I just read the op again. They never said whether if it is current or not. so by the rules it is assumed to be current. Do current Naruto have feats with Sage mode?
You assume current at time of creation if no version is specified, or most recent.
Naruto knows every way Itachi can put you under genjutsu, he is not falling to it.Your Nagato example doesn't matter since Itachi is far less versatile and easier to counter.
Did you just skip the Naruto vs Pain fight? Ma and Pa were at his side.....
@jashro44:
How, exactly?
Ma and Pa weren't on his side.
And Itachi literally beat Nagato with Naruto and Bee handicapping him. And knowing about genjutsu doesn't help you. Naruto literally can't look at Itachi without genjutsu gg. And Nagato's thing wasn't versatile. it was just don't use jutsu. And Naruto still did it. Twice. Cause he's dumb.
Naruto knows every way Itachi can put you under genjutsu, he is not falling to it.Your Nagato example doesn't matter since Itachi is far less versatile and easier to counter.
Did you just skip the Naruto vs Pain fight? Ma and Pa were at his side.....
@jashro44:
How, exactly?
Ma and Pa weren't on his side.
And Itachi literally beat Nagato with Naruto and Bee handicapping him. And knowing about genjutsu doesn't help you. Naruto literally can't look at Itachi without genjutsu gg. And Nagato's thing wasn't versatile. it was just don't use jutsu. And Naruto still did it. Twice. Cause he's dumb.
Lol, Itachi 'beat' Nagato with a cheap shot. Kabuto even said Nagato's muscle atrophy interfered with his maneuverability, so it's any wonder he couldn't do much to dodge.
Naruto is restricted to Sage mode, but Kurama is still in his body and can wake him up from any genjutsu if he gets caught.
Naruto knows every way Itachi can put you under genjutsu, he is not falling to it.Your Nagato example doesn't matter since Itachi is far less versatile and easier to counter.
Did you just skip the Naruto vs Pain fight? Ma and Pa were at his side.....
@jashro44:
How, exactly?
Ma and Pa weren't on his side.
And Itachi literally beat Nagato with Naruto and Bee handicapping him. And knowing about genjutsu doesn't help you. Naruto literally can't look at Itachi without genjutsu gg. And Nagato's thing wasn't versatile. it was just don't use jutsu. And Naruto still did it. Twice. Cause he's dumb.
Lol, Itachi 'beat' Nagato with a cheap shot. Kabuto even said Nagato's muscle atrophy interfered with his maneuverability, so it's any wonder he couldn't do much to dodge.
Naruto is restricted to Sage mode, but Kurama is still in his body and can wake him up from any genjutsu if he gets caught.
Tsukuyomi would take care of the Kurama problem. He wouldn't have enough time to wake him up.
Naruto knows every way Itachi can put you under genjutsu, he is not falling to it.Your Nagato example doesn't matter since Itachi is far less versatile and easier to counter.
Did you just skip the Naruto vs Pain fight? Ma and Pa were at his side.....
@jashro44:
How, exactly?
Ma and Pa weren't on his side.
And Itachi literally beat Nagato with Naruto and Bee handicapping him. And knowing about genjutsu doesn't help you. Naruto literally can't look at Itachi without genjutsu gg. And Nagato's thing wasn't versatile. it was just don't use jutsu. And Naruto still did it. Twice. Cause he's dumb.
Lol, Itachi 'beat' Nagato with a cheap shot. Kabuto even said Nagato's muscle atrophy interfered with his maneuverability, so it's any wonder he couldn't do much to dodge.
Naruto is restricted to Sage mode, but Kurama is still in his body and can wake him up from any genjutsu if he gets caught.
Tsukuyomi would take care of the Kurama problem. He wouldn't have enough time to wake him up.
That requires eye contact which Naruto won't give him. Especially given the fact that in Sage mode, he can rely on his chakra sensing.
Plus, Tsukuyomi isn't that impressive. It didn't even instantly drop Kakashi and Naruto's damage soak is far greater.
I just read the op again. They never said whether if it is current or not. so by the rules it is assumed to be current. Do current Naruto have feats with Sage mode?
You assume current at time of creation if no version is specified, or most recent.
I know that is what I said according to the the battle forum rules. Which mean Naruto have no feats with Sage Mode. So by the Picture it is the pain arc Naruto Sage mode. If it is current then he is featless accordingly to the new chapters.
Taijutsu? Naruto completely dominates in that aspect.If Itachi tries H2H like he did vs Bee and Sasuke, he gets one shotted by Frog Kata.
Genjutsu? Naruto knows everything about that due to previous encounters, and has Ma and Pa anyway.He is not getting caught.
Ninjutsu? Itachi's Katons and Suitons will be easily tanked/odged.Naruto's Senjutsu enhanced ninjutsu however will be far too much for Itachi forcing him to use Susanoo.
Battling his MS arsenal will be way harder but do-able.
I'm assuming this is war arc SM Naruto since any further would be a stomp. But I would debate for Pain arc SM Naruto too.
@darkraiden:
What fight were you watching? Lol
Itachi only sealed Nagato because of his legs and the fact that Nagato's vision was blocked.1v1 with non-crippled Nagato? Itachi gets wrecked.
How does knowledge not help? Everytime Itachi has met Naruto he has put him under genjutsu with new ways after the old ones were completely ineffective.And across the war, he has been fighting against two very good genjutsu users like Obito and Madara without falling to genjutsu.Itachi isn't putting Naruto under genjutsu. Bring some scans to prove otherwise.
Even if he does get caught, Ma and Pa and/or Kurama will break him out.
Taijutsu? Naruto completely dominates in that aspect.If Itachi tries H2H like he did vs Bee and Sasuke, he gets one shotted by Frog Kata.
Genjutsu? Naruto knows everything about that due to previous encounters, and has Ma and Pa anyway.He is not getting caught.
Ninjutsu? Itachi's Katons and Suitons will be easily tanked/odged.Naruto's Senjutsu enhanced ninjutsu however will be far too much for Itachi forcing him to use Susanoo.
Battling his MS arsenal will be way harder but do-able.
I'm assuming this is war arc SM Naruto since any further would be a stomp. But I would debate for Pain arc SM Naruto too.
@darkraiden:
What fight were you watching? Lol
Itachi only sealed Nagato because of his legs and the fact that Nagato's vision was blocked.1v1 with non-crippled Nagato? Itachi gets wrecked.
How does knowledge not help? Everytime Itachi has met Naruto he has put him under genjutsu with new ways after the old ones were completely ineffective.And across the war, he has been fighting against two very good genjutsu users like Obito and Madara without falling to genjutsu.Itachi isn't putting Naruto under genjutsu. Bring some scans to prove otherwise.
Even if he does get caught, Ma and Pa and/or Kurama will break him out.
the SM naruto in the picture was clearly pain arc sage mode naruto. Naruto gets wrecked. First of all, naruto lost if it wasn't for kurama making him berserk. secondly, we all know sage mode has its benefits but nine tail mode is still an upgraded version. full demon mode control naruto still lost to an edo-pain. itachi probably is not as strong as pain, but he did manage to counteract the situation. While naruto and bee was getting hammered left and right. naruto isn't too bright I think we can all agree on that, and itachi is a genius I think we can all agree on that too. Don't forget, there is a crow inside of naruto.
@itachi_totsukablitz: It takes time to summon ma and pa where as it doesn't take long to trap Naruto in a genjutsu. It would be easier if Naruto just tried fighting with his sensing abilities. He may know about itachis genjutsu but its hard to not look at the enemies eyes or finger when your both moving around. I agree with you on taijutsu due to frog kumite and narutos strength but Itachi has susanoo to protect him. I was counting his MS abilities as ninjutsu. Honestly if Itachi spams armteratsu with the quantity he did during his fight with sasuke however has it so he intends to kill naruto unlike sasuke I don't think naruto can dodge. He isn't that much faster than Itachi if at all.
For the purpose of this argument I'm assuming that Naruto's sage mode is only good for about two rasen shurikens without clones made ahead of time to extend the duration and that itachi is not near death as in his fight with sasuke. I just feel limiting itachi that way does not give him a fair shot. Anyway, I really have to go with itachi. Sage mode is great for naruto, but despite what some people have said, it does not boost his physical speed, merely his senses and perception which I'm not sure helps here. I'm also concerned with how some people measure sage modes effectiveness by how naruto beat pain, but he did not fight that battle alone. He had help from the frogs and specifically planned ahead by having extra clones to summon to extend the duration of his sage mode. I am not giving him that edge. Itachi would have full access to his normal skills: his tsukiyomi was much better than sasuke's version and I'm not convinced naruto would be able to avoid it or break out. I recall naruto could not break itachi's normal genjutsu in either of the two times they encountered each other before itachi was revived via edo tensei. Naruto would also have no way to dodge Amaterasu in sage mode. He could block Amaterasu with the kyubi mode I guess, but not sage mode. And finally, itachi's susano is pretty overwhelming. It has that mirror of yata which if I recall correctly, someone in the manga stated could block ANYTHING (which naturally encompasses a rasen shuriken or giant sage rasengan). Naruto only has two rasen shuriken attacks before his sage mode ends and even if he had more, I just don't think it would be enough. Itachi can win this through tsukuyomi, Amaterasu, or susano-o, take your pick.
It takes time to summon ma and pa where as it doesn't take long to trap Naruto in a genjutsu. It would be easier if Naruto just tried fighting with his sensing abilities. He may know about itachis genjutsu but its hard to not look at the enemies eyes or finger when your both moving around.
It doesn't take long to summon Ma and Pa,what takes a long time is fusing with them iirc.Naruto wont have such a problem.
And I dont see exactly how Itachi puts him in genjutsu.Can he do it?Yes.But can he do it before Naruto defeats him?I would say no.And if Naruto has Ma and Pa out,or is war arc,genjutsu is redundant.
I agree with you on taijutsu due to frog kumite and narutos strength but Itachi has susanoo to protect him. I was counting his MS abilities as ninjutsu.
From Naruto's physical hits,yes.But why would he use Susanoo if he intend to go CQC?No Uchiha uses Susanoo right in the middle of a CQC exchange.
As for Susanoo and how Naruto deals with it...
This is what Danzo's Fuuton did to a V3 Susanoo
This Fuuton (even though it was powered by Baku's suction) has no hype nor feat to even put it in the same league as FRS.For Itachi,anything less than V4 Susanoo gets annihilated.
Even V4 Susanoo tanking FRS is debatable judging by their feats.Susanoo got busted by Kirin.FRS with its crater feat is arguably above Kirin.Only Yata Mirror can afford Susanoo to tank FRS.Which means Itachi has no answer to FRS from multiple different angles.
And if this is War arc SM Naruto,then he can easily bust Susanoo with this.
Seriously,look at that size.Considering how powerful a regular FRS is,Itachi has no hope of doing anything against this jutsu.His Susanoo gets steamrolled.
Another way Naruto can deal with Susanoo is Senpo:Kawazu Naki.
This jutsu staggered huge summons and while probably not on the same level as Kabuto's Hakugeki technique,it can at the very least force Itachi to reverts to a lesser form of Susanoo.Susanoo puts a huge strain on the user.There is no way Itachi can mantain a V4 Suanoo under this jutsu.He will at least revert to V3,which means FRS easily finishes Itachi off.
And last but not least,Frog song.Thats an instant GG for Itachi.
Honestly if Itachi spams armteratsu with the quantity he did during his fight with sasuke however has it so he intends to kill naruto unlike sasuke I don't think naruto can dodge. He isn't that much faster than Itachi if at all.
SM Naruto doesnt have the movement speed to dodge Amaterasu,yes.But he has ways around it.
Naruto is one of the best sensors in this manga.He will sense the build up of chakra or see Itachi's eye bleeding and counter Amaterasu by blocking LoS.Itachi cant ignite him if he doesn't have a visual.
Either through rasengans to the ground or Senpo:Fuuton Sunabokori.
Even if he can see Naruto's chakra signature through smoke,he cant ignite him.And he certainly cant see Naruto at all through a jutsu like Sunabokori.
Alternatively,he senses Amaterasu coming and quickly creates a lot of clones to take the hit.
So,to summarise.
Ways Itachi can take out Naruto.
-Genjustu.Generally countered by Naruto's knowledge.
-Tsukuyomi.See above.
-Amaterasu.Countered by Sensing+Blocking LoS or Sensing+Mass clones
Ways Naruto can take out Itachi
-FRS from different angles (Itachi has no counter)
-Senpo:Kawazu Naki followed by FRS (Itachi has no counter)
@itachi_totsukablitz: Lol itachi fanboys are back at it. I lost all hope with them when they started arguing that he could beat kaguya. Not matter how logical your argument they'll just keep saying ametarasu and genjutsu or totsuka and yata mirror. They truly believe him to be invincible
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