@mr_ingenuityOk....slightly irritated, my entire intro just deleted for some reason......going to do a simpler straight forward version. Feel free to call out any feats/facts you have in question but im not going through organizing everything again but will be happy to proved evidence of anything below.
Agent Smith
Once a loyal guard of the Matrix itself, Smith was "set free" after his defeat at the hands of Neo. From that point he has become an unplugged virus infecting all against him in his conquest for control/purpose. (obviously his ability to hack/assimilate has been stripped from him in this tournament) Smith still possesses a complete knowledge of martial arts, the ability to fly, and his physical stats will prove to be very helpful. Here is the final conflict against Neo to show some of the power/speed/skill/durability of Agent Smith.
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5:30 Smiths punch generated enough of a shockwave to displace every rain drop across the span of a large city. He then proceeds to drive the stunned neo head first into the street pavement with enough speed to create a crater that is 15+ ft. deep as well as across.
Father
Sense the destruction of Xerxes and the Creation of Amestris, Father has worked continuously to become the perfect being. Creating philosopher stones & blood crests from the dozens of conflicts/wars raged sense the country's inception. (350-400 years) He has achieved his god hood and now seeks to use it against your DC team.
Powers & abilities
Soul Count: 536,329 souls
Full alchemic knowledge, Energy emission, force fields, matter manipulation
7 Deadly Sins (homunculi)
Wrath-
Fuhrer King Bradley, born a human and trained from birth to be a natural born leader. Taught tactical strategy, martial arts, fencing (sword fighting) being the top of his class, Wraith was given his Ultimate Eye(s) which allows him to read/predict movements of his enemies & surroundings. But Wraths body and abilities are his own apart from his eyes "precog".
You can see in one panel his ultimate eyes seen the threat (the explosion) and Wraths own speed/reflex was fast enough to not only outrun the blast but also run across falling debris to safety in the next panel. From that point he runs across country to Central Command where we see him later storm the front gate, with a single sword. Wraths standard gear is 4 sheathed sword set, with a 5th in-hand
ENVY
Envy is a very large 8-legged monster consisting of thousands of souls. Envy can shape shift his body/limbs into any form he chooses and has used this ability to make weapons/animals and subdue people. As well as using sneak attacks on opponents with his elongated limbs which he has stretched 50 ft.+. above and below ground.
PRIDE
Pride, considered the most dangerous of the Homunculi, has control of shadow tendrils that he has used to cleave entire trees in half as well as slice through metals as tough as Alphonses' armor. The oldest as well as youngest looking; Prides has shown to be able to fight/restrain multiple combatants at once from a safe distance with using his tendrils. Also at one point when Prides shadow manipulation had been restricted he survived being ripped apart repeatedly by a lion chimera for so long that even the chimera grew exhausted; this was still not enough to kill him for good however.
SLOTH
Sloth didn't really play a large role in FMA until after completing his tunnel near Fort Briggs. In his first encounter with Gen. Olivier Armstrong he lost (due to incap) but it took the General multiple tank rounds as well as three tanks to literally just shove sloth out of the fort, where they froze him. In their second encounter, Sloth, reveals to the General that he is the fastest of the homunculus.(yes, even faster than Wrath) So much so that he has a difficult time controlling his own speed but once he tags you, you'll know it!
Greed, Lust, Gluttony
I combined these three because there is little showing of their combative powers(considering this is Fathers first incarnation of greed/no false door for Gluttony) and just really for time... Greed's Ultimate shield is a protective carbon base harder than diamond used to protect his body and also making reducing his soul count even harder. Lusts' hands are of similar design although, her ultimate spears, have shown to be effective at close-mid range. And although she does not have the ability to cover her entire body like her brother, Greed. Lust does have Gluttonies unwavering devotion. Gluttony is seen eating everything from steel, wood, bone etc. he is constantly hungry and once he gets a wiff of a target he can track them wherever they go.
Edward & Alphonse
Brothers, alchemists, and life-long sparring partners. The perfect cohesion between these two have aloud them to best superior opponents time and time again. While Ed may be a better alchemist and more deviant/manipulative in his combat, Alphonse is the better fighter. (stated by Ed himself) Also Alphonse will never get tired and can't feel physical pain. Both have shown to have bullet time reaction, as well as(working as a team) have blitzed Scar who is a casual bullet dodger.
Alex Louis Armstrong & Isaac
Major Alex Armstrong, The Strong Arm alchemist is the pinnacle of human strength and has protected the Elrics and others with his alchemy that has been passed down the Armstrong family for generations! His Alchemy generally consists of using large rocks and bricks as alchemic projectiles(with perfect replicas of his face/body) launched at his enemies. Well his ego may be a bit too large he can certainly back it up. Armstrong has gone toe-to-toe with Sloth, in their fight we see Alex's punches being equal to or greater than the tank rounds his sister had used on Sloth. So with every blow, Alex hits with a rough equivalent of a tank round.
Isaac "The Freezer" sadly only appears in the very first FMAB episode, so not much can be said about him, except a few things... Isaac has shown he can freeze/boil the water inside a person solely through touch. He is extremely resourceful, having used his own blood to make frozen spears when desperate. And we see just as poor Isaac dies that he was in possession of a philosopher stone, giving his alchemic power a huge boost. With it he was able to freeze entire canal ways and create bridges of ice.
I know little to nothing of your team so ill stop here until then. Then Ill reveal my teams strategy/battle plan
@vashtanerada88: I'm going to skip character intros for my team, considering they have very few appearances. Taking that into consideration I'll post video links for one of their fights. But the videos are optional as since gifvs will be used in my post.
Team work is an irrelevant issue for my team because of their perk, so personality clashes won't happen. My team also has the morals off perk so collateral damage is an after thought that includes the population.
Considering the distance of 50 miles between the teams, finding the opponents is necessary, if neither side alerts the other. My team will take to the sky gaining enough height for Superman to x-ray your team's side of the battlefield, and gain some insight into who they're fighting.Your team having 12 characters that aren't entirely human will instantly give away their position.
Before my team starts their attack Superman will quickly pass this info off to his teammates. The info doesn't need to be very detailed to get the point across, simply things that x-ray vision would pick up. Such as organs (noting how many humans), skeleton structures (noting enhancements) gems (philosopher stones) & weapons.
My team has many counter measures if the blasting doesn't end this and will be ready to go on the defensive. So if your team attempts to overpower mine in range the JL Robot will take their attacks & boom-tube them at your team's back while Superman uses his speed to move Hawk-Man.
The best way to counter melee is to be out of striking distance & my team is flying giving them that advantage. From the characters on your team Agent Smith should be the only one capable of flying at mach speeds, which makes a melee fight 3 vs 1.
Depending on what your team's initial strategy, changes can be made. But with my teams overwhelming physical abilities & teleportation adjustments can be made in advance.
@mr_ingenuity: interesting, your robot may prove to be problem some...
COUNTER
"My team will take to the sky gaining enough height for Superman to x-ray your team's side of the battlefield, and gain some insight into who they're fighting. Your team having 12 characters that aren't entirely human will instantly give away their position."
Having your team flying around looking for my guys will instantly give yourself away also, as nobody else will be flying about, they will stick out like a sore thumb.
"Before my team starts their attack Superman will quickly pass this info off to his teammates. The info doesn't need to be very detailed to get the point across, simply things that x-ray vision would pick up. Such as organs (noting how many humans), skeleton structures (noting enhancements) gems (philosopher stones) & weapons."
My humans and homunculi (children) would perhaps be identified as human, there's no reason to believe that superman would know what the philosopher stone is on them; as they are completely foreign to him. (he may assume/guess its their power source but that's about it) Father/Smith may look human but there's no reason to suggest that their make up is (at least not father). Father is a walking talking Philosopher stone, his corporeal form is just one he chooses..
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you can see at 4:45 when he allows Greeling to punch him, father just allows his fist to punch through his face so he may hold/absorb greeds souls. He used this exact same tactic on Hohenheim. As well as against May's throw able spear heads. (he absorbs it into his body and dishes it back 10x larger)
*also its worth noting* the reason why Hohenheim is not in the final battle is because of Fathers energy blast.(that destroys an entire wing of Central Command; an 4 story building) unfortunately this clip begins immediately after the fact. (If you would like I can put up the entire episode to clarify my point) here's a picture. THIS IS NOT HIS "sun in hand" feat
"With that in mind the JL Robot will boom tube my team within to blast your team with a continuous stream of heat. Superman has heat vision and the JL Robot has a laser that mimics the heat vision of (JL Gods & Monsters) Superman. Superman's heat vision is enough to incinerate doomsday clones & the JL Robot has vaporized a high tech satellite base. Provided your team has heat resistance to survive temps above 2500°F they'll be caught off guard & stunned."
The Homunculi + Father have all dealt with heat attacks. i.e Mustang (who can, by feats, reach that kind of heat) while it may hurt them, it will take more than a blast or two to put them down for good. And my alchemists have their own means of defense, such as creating shields from earth or ice. Isaac's ice in particular has shown to be VERY effective against heat.(mustang couldn't even scratch it) As we have a river next to us, their is no shortage of water. Smith has no showings of heat resistance, but we'll get back to that.
FIRSTLY, those Doomsday clones were absolute fodder. Batman was owning them.....as well as unnamed amazons, I was more impressed by Supes incinerating the trees lol. Those clones were pretty much "glass cannons". And when it came time for him to fight Darkseid, he was up staged by his cousin who showed more fortitude and spirit as well as skill. Supes got blasted once with Darkseids eye beams then KO with a punch into orbit, where he floated around while his cousin was going toe-to-toe. Only to(after a sun baking) come back to get choked...again.
((something to keep in mind)) The punch that Darkseid sent supes into orbit with shattered the windows of the Kent's farm home. The punches Agent Smith was throwing were shattering the windows of skyscrapers and sending city wide shockwaves..
"My team has many counter measures if the blasting doesn't end this and will be ready to go on the defensive. So if your team attempts to overpower mine in range the JL Robot will take their attacks & boom-tube them at your team's back while Superman uses his speed to move Hawk-Man.
The best way to counter melee is to be out of striking distance & my team is flying giving them that advantage. From the characters on your team Agent Smith should be the only one capable of flying at mach speeds, which makes a melee fight 3 vs 1. Yes, Smith has, Flying and fighting speed at mach+ levels; as well as superior martial art skill over any of your team. (being able to go tit for tat with Neo, neither of them just flail their fists about like superman does)
Depending on what your team's initial strategy, changes can be made. But with my teams overwhelming physical abilities & teleportation adjustments can be made in advance."
Which begs the question...Does it ever specifiy at any given time what the JL robot is made from?
Strategy
After learning my location and beginning your assault on my team, you will force everyone to band even closer together; not physically but cooperatively. While the homunculi and humans have fought, there are many,many examples and instances that they have worked together willingly as well as when forced into a partnership. (such as you attacking everybody). This will only strengthen their resolve and unity.
Our goal is to keep the fighting "near" ground, Smith would not charge all three in an high air fight. But the homunculi Envy, Pride, and father have means of attacks long range; even if their grounded. So unless your floating 100's of ft. above buildings they will reach you with Prides shadow Tendrils--Envy's reach (who will turn true form at the beginning of the fight; which will also fool your team into considering him as one of the main threats) And father's energy blasts.
Superman will not be moving hawk-man anywhere as Smith would intercept them, who has shown to be far far better H2H then this version of supes as well as combatively faster. "base Smith" was moving as fast as superman on his return from the sun.(who was likely bloodlust)
Basic Smith speed punching
Hawk man has no fly speed feats that ive seen and will likely get snatched and pulled down by Envy or Pride, and if he touches down/ or falls for half a second he gets dogpiled by Lust, Gluttony, greed, wrath and sloth.
Isaac creates a massive ice wall, freezing the river. This will begin to limit the attacking points that the JL robot can use.(as he wont be attacking from behind the ice wall) as well Alex, Ed and Al will provide cover shields for the team and if any of the alchemists tag your robot (physically) he runs the risk of having his make up transmuted, weakening him. From the video you played also it seems he/it has feelings as it was screaming in pain. I wonder if it knows fear? ;)
Father will go where he is needed, more likely than not, doubling up on superman to finish him fast.
Also All alchemists in my party plus father have shown to be able to use transmuted ground to shoot them to building level height's.
Having your team flying around looking for my guys will instantly give yourself away also, as nobody else will be flying about, they will stick out like a sore thumb.
That's possible but your team would have to be looking up at the sky & see figures 50 miles away.
My humans and homunculi (children) would perhaps be identified as human, there's no reason to believe that superman would know what the philosopher stone is on them; as they are completely foreign to him. (he may assume/guess its their power source but that's about it) Father/Smith may look human but there's no reason to suggest that their make up is (at least not father). Father is a walking talking Philosopher stone, his corporeal form is just one he chooses.
Anyone with a gem in their chest/body would atomically seen as a different species good info to have when the enemy starts to heal. I never stated Superman would know what the gem is or how it is used. But the fact remains it is out of the ordinary which makes it important info and too important be overlooked.
*also its worth noting* the reason why Hohenheim is not in the final battle is because of Fathers energy blast.(that destroys an entire wing of Central Command; an 4 story building) unfortunately this clip begins immediately after the fact. (If you would like I can put up the entire episode to clarify my point) here's a picture. THIS IS NOT HIS "sun in hand" feat
I've counter this stating the JL robot will create a boom tube that redirects their attacks to your teams back. Killing your team off leavening Father but simultaneously depleting his stone. Also using Father's own blast to deplete his stone is over kill as an army with mortars, bullets, and flame alchemy has done so. It should be noted healing, defending and attacking has shown to drain Father's stone.
The Homunculi + Father have all dealt with heat attacks. i.e Mustang (who can, by feats, reach that kind of heat) while it may hurt them, it will take more than a blast or two to put them down for good. And my alchemists have their own means of defense, such as creating shields from earth or ice. Isaac's ice in particular has shown to be VERY effective against heat.(mustang couldn't even scratch it) As we have a river next to us, their is no shortage of water. Smith has no showings of heat resistance, but we'll get back to that.
I don't think Mustang mesures up in heat to the JL Robot, blasting power is an entirely different issue. Considering Superman (of the Gods and Monsters verse) took a magma bath to kill the JL Robot (terminator 2 style), magma is 2,400°F, but Superman's chest was burn by the heat beam. Could you show Mustang vaporizing steel?
Also that doesn't prove your team won't be vaporized by continuous beams of heat. None of your homunculus have as many souls as Father and will be depleted quickly. So you haven't shown how they survive.
Isaac trying to create a defense when he's caught off guard by teleportation and doing so faster than my team can look at him seems implausible. Then you have to take into consideration my team is faster than him.
Why come back to Smith? If Smith doesn't have the feats to survive then he dies undoubtedly. Remember Superman has better heat resistance than your entire team and he was burned. This also apply to the alchemist (Ed, Al & Armstrong) who you didn't provided counters for.
FIRSTLY, those Doomsday clones were absolute fodder. Batman was owning them.....as well as unnamed amazons, I was more impressed by Supes incinerating the trees lol. Those clones were pretty much "glass cannons". And when it came time for him to fight Darkseid, he was up staged by his cousin who showed more fortitude and spirit as well as skill. Supes got blasted once with Darkseids eye beams then KO with a punch into orbit, where he floated around while his cousin was going toe-to-toe. Only to(after a sun baking) come back to get choked...again.
((something to keep in mind)) The punch that Darkseid sent supes into orbit with shattered the windows of the Kent's farm home. The punches Agent Smith was throwing were shattering the windows of skyscrapers and sending city wide shockwaves..
I never stated they weren't fodder but that's irrelevant to the issue of heat. Incinerating humans or above notes the level of heat being used, which is all that feat was to present. So these statements don't address any of my points and show a level of biased.
Yes, Smith has, Flying and fighting speed at mach+ levels; as well as superior martial art skill over any of your team. (being able to go tit for tat with Neo, neither of them just flail their fists about like superman does)
Martial arts mean nil to a team with two characters that are faster, one of those being certifiably more durable, and heals. But Smith is in no condition to fight after burned alive by heat vision/beam & blasted by Father.
Which begs the question...Does it ever specifiy at any given time what the JL robot is made from?
After learning my location and beginning your assault on my team, you will force everyone to band even closer together; not physically but cooperatively. While the homunculi and humans have fought, there are many,many examples and instances that they have worked together willingly as well as when forced into a partnership. (such as you attacking everybody). This will only strengthen their resolve and unity.
No my team attacking doesn't make your team friends. While they may not attack one anther at that time their need to survive would only extend only to themselves and their friends, so defending one another limited. Also that doesn't stop them form attacking when teammates are in the blast/attack range.
Our goal is to keep the fighting "near" ground, Smith would not charge all three in an high air fight. But the homunculi Envy, Pride, and father have means of attacks long range; even if their grounded. So unless your floating 100's of ft. above buildings they will reach you with Prides shadow Tendrils--Envy's reach (who will turn true form at the beginning of the fight; which will also fool your team into considering him as one of the main threats) And father's energy blasts.
Smith needs feats before he can survive to be apart of this battle. But I do find it odd Smith will not go for striking distance when when he has no other way to attack. My team will be floating above the bridge level to keep them out of range. Envy is a coward that can't stand pain and will die form the heat alone. Father's energy blast has been reacted to by slower characters all the JL Robot has to do is open a boom tube that redirect it back. That's far above what your team has shown to survive.
Superman will not be moving hawk-man anywhere as Smith would intercept them, who has shown to be far far better H2H then this version of supes as well as combatively faster. "base Smith" was moving as fast as superman on his return from the sun.(who was likely bloodlust)
Superman has faster flight speed reentry speed to be exact & Hawk-Man is floating near him. Smith doesn't get the chance because he still needs feats to survive the heat. At no time in this battle would Superman not look at Smith and not think to bast him.
Smith is nowhere near Superman in combat speed. An angered Superman (not blood lust) flew at hypersonic speeds pummeled & blasted Darkseid 12. Superman has shown reentry speed in flight and has reacted to a full blast form the Omega Beams. The same beams that blasted him to orbit, so the omega beams speed is unquestionable. As you can see Superman moved fast enough to cause lightning.
Hawk man has no fly speed feats that ive seen and will likely get snatched and pulled down by Envy or Pride, and if he touches down/ or falls for half a second he gets dogpiled by Lust, Gluttony, greed, wrath and sloth.
Hawk-Man has no reason to leave the air & has been moved my Superman so none of them are getting to Hawk-Man. Also none of the homunculus would survive the heat & a blast from Father.
Isaac creates a massive ice wall, freezing the river. This will begin to limit the attacking points that the JL robot can use.(as he wont be attacking from behind the ice wall) as well Alex, Ed and Al will provide cover shields for the team and if any of the alchemists tag your robot (physically) he runs the risk of having his make up transmuted, weakening him. From the video you played also it seems he/it has feelings as it was screaming in pain. I wonder if it knows fear? ;)
This is starting to seem more like fan fic than an actual strategy. My team is faster than your team & can teleport, so no barriers can be made before the alchemist are blasted by heat vision. Added to that Father's blast being redirected by passing any barriers.
Ed Al and Armstrong will never tag the JL Robot because it can teleport faster than Superman can hit it.
Father will go where he is needed, more likely than not, doubling up on superman to finish him fast.
Also All alchemists in my party plus father have shown to be able to use transmuted ground to shoot them to building level height's.
Father isn't going any where having just incinerated his whole team and massively weakened his own stone.
My team can teleport, fly out of range, & fast enough to blitz no slow transmuted projectiles are tagging them. And unless you show durability that allows your team to survive heat vision and Father's blast your down to one character, Father. Who isn't fast, can't fly, weakening with every blast form both sides & has been taken out by far less.
"That's possible but your team would have to be looking up at the sky & see figures 50 miles away."
Pride covering ground in multiple directions, by feats alone 50 miles is absolutely nothing for what Pride can achieve with his tendrils.
ex: From Central command, Pride could attack people as far away as Fort Briggs, leiore etc. all are hundred's of miles away..Or Smith or any alchemist going up on a rooftop...
I have just as much likelihood to spot you as well
"Anyone with a gem in their chest/body would atomically seen as a different species good info to have when the enemy starts to heal. I never stated Superman would know what the gem is or how it is used. But the fact remains it is out of the ordinary which makes it important info and too important be overlooked."
fair enough. What do you mean by "noting enhancements"?
"I've counter this stating the JL robot will create a boom tube that redirects their attacks to your teams back. Killing your team off leavening Father but simultaneously depleting his stone. Also using Father's own blast to deplete his stone is over kill as an army with mortars, bullets, and flame alchemy has done so. It should be noted healing, defending and attacking has shown to drain Father's stone."
It seems like you go back to this point further into the debate several times. And as I said above about Fathers focus in this fight. "more likely than not, doubling up on superman to finish him fast" If you have intent on having JL Robot going straight for father you have already brought the fight to me. Where you are your must vulnerable, thank you. And with regard to Father killing everyone, that is very unlikely Father is nothing like superman; who blindly runs in flailing his fists around.
ex: In Fathers first encounter with Scar (after shutting down Ed & Al's alchemy) Father allows Scar to openly attack him so he can better understand how he was able to still use alchemy. Father isn't dumb and wouldn't be afraid of a robot, he wouldn't even see it as a threat so there is no need to over kill it with an energy blast that large; Not to mention your robot is made of actual metals, any alchemist could just deconstruct or reconstruct and when you put him against father that would be his undoing in no time because Father doesn't even need to move in order to transmute (at all) . And his Alchemy by scale/power trumps everybody else in the series. he's dealing with an alchemist with well over 500,000 souls, full alchemic knowledge, and doesn't even need to move to transmute O, whose also very intelligent and evil as hell. Heck! Gluttony could LITERALLY take a bite out of him, as he has eaten metals from swords/spears/guns with zero trouble, with no need to even open his "false door" (which is striped from him anyways)
"I don't think Mustang mesures up in heat to the JL Robot, blasting power is an entirely different issue. Considering Superman (of the Gods and Monsters verse) took a magma bath to kill the JL Robot (terminator 2 style), magma is 2,400°F, but Superman's chest was burn by the heat beam. Could you show Mustang vaporizing steel?"
Mustang has completely incinerated a large portion of the mannequin army into dust; teeth, bone everything gone. that's pretty damn hot. And what does that superman have to do with anything? your using Superman: Superman/Batman Apocalypse. And heat wont be necessary to kill your robot that's just how superman did it.
"Also that doesn't prove your team won't be vaporized by continuous beams of heat. None of your homunculus have as many souls as Father and will be depleted quickly. So you haven't shown how they survive."
from superman? while JL robot is after father(which wont last long) OR from JL robot while superman is fighting father/smith etc.? countless beams is unlikely, that requires time to stand still especially with somebody like Greed who will require a lasting beam in order to do any real damage. All while your trying to avoid projectiles and Prides shadow tendrils grabbing or cutting into you, envy snatching ahold of you, Alchemy, other Homunculi etc.
"Isaac trying to create a defense when he's caught off guard by teleportation and doing so faster than my team can look at him seems implausible. Then you have to take into consideration my team is faster than him."
faster perhaps, but whats done is done(with regards to the ice wall) and it wont matter JL robot will have its hands full. Isaac is still fast enough to react to Supermans eye beams.
ex. Isaac has reacted to Mustangs flame point blank in time to counter his attack stopping him from getting fried. That's fast enough to defend himself from Supes eyebeams IMO and superman isn't going toe to toe with him right from the start...is he?
"Why come back to Smith? If Smith doesn't have the feats to survive then he dies undoubtedly. Remember Superman has better heat resistance than your entire team and he was burned. This also apply to the alchemist (Ed, Al & Armstrong) who you didn't provided counters for."
Not when either Father or one of the Alchemists (Armstrong) start attacking superman when coupled with Smith or all three at once. His heat resistance doesn't matter when hes shown to be stunned easily and straight up punched out, more than once. He will have too many people on him While JL robot is fighting the Homunculi children.
"I never stated they weren't fodder but that's irrelevant to the issue of heat. Incarcerating humans or above notes the level of heat being used, which is all that feat was to present. So these statements don't address any of my points and show a level of biased."
As I said above, Mustang's fire was shown to be to the level where he could literally dust people, as he did with the mannequin army. and all I said of the gif is that I was more impressed by the trees being scorched.
"Martial arts mean nil to a team with two characters than are faster, one of those being certifiably more durable, and heals. But Smith is in no condition to fight after burned alive by heat vision/beam & blasted by Father."
If he gets a chance to even tag him while being continuously attacked by Pride, Smith, Father(perhaps depending on who you decide is focusing their attention on him), Armstrong, etc. Superman had no trouble dodging Darkseids eyebeams, so its unlikely some one who is obiously faster,like Smith, would have little trouble dodging supermans eye beams. he will get punched out.
"It's never specified what the JL Robot nanites are composed of but they're durable enough to be pummeled to a magma chamber, which are 1 km below the surface."
distance(1km) is practically irrelevant. so its a real alloy? making it fair game to be manipulated, by any alchemist.
"No my team attacking doesn't make your team friends. While they may not attack one anther at that time their need to survive would only extend only to themselves and their friends, so defending one another limited. Also that doesn't stop them form attacking when teammates are in the blast/attack range."
The Homunculi would be more willing to work with the humans than visa versa. Smith would likely get help from either group and Homunculi like Pride/Envy demand the attention of everyone on your team. We may not have the best co-op but there's enough of us to where you are still seriously outnumbered.
"Smith needs feats before he can survive to be apart of this battle."
I already posted his fight above and keeping up with Neo and beating him is evidence enough that they aren't going to just tag Smith so easy or even at all, especially with everyone else attacking you
"But I do find it odd Smith will not go for striking distance when when he has no other way to attack. My team will be floating above the bridge level to keep them out of range."
out of range from who? Gluttany lust sloth and wrath? that's about it as everyone else can reach you easily, and you still cant even count THEM out
"Envy is a coward that can't stand pain and will die form the heat alone. Father's energy blast has been reacted to by slower characters all the JL Robot has to do is open a boom tube that redirect it back. That's far above what your team has shown to survive."
How is Envy a coward?? Also Mustang was pinpointing his flame on Envy's eyes and tongue, something which no one in your team is capable of doing. I already addressed your energy blast theory....
"Superman has faster flight speed reentry speed to be exact & Hawk-Man is floating near him. Smith doesn't get the chance because he still needs feats to survive the heat. At no time in this battle would Superman not look at Smith and not think to bast him."
What do you think Smith was doing when he drove Neo head first into the pavement? re watch that, the velocity from his speed alone was enough to leave that crater + the shockwave that ensued afterwards. I'm not even convinced Superman could have done his speed without sun baking after getting KO'd into Orbit, he showed it NOWHERE else.
Feats for Hawk-mans speed???
"Smith is nowhere near Superman in combat speed. An angered Superman (not blood lust) flew at hypersonic speeds pummeled & blasted Darkseid 12. Superman has shown reentry speed in flight and has reacted to a full blast form the Omega Beams. The same beams that blasted him to orbit, so the omega beams speed is unquestionable. As you can see Superman moved fast enough to cause lightning."
You realize that BASE Smith punches faster than high velocity bullet speed and to even tag Neo in "revelations" would be harder than tagging any of your team.
"Hawk-Man has no reason to leave the air & has been moved my Superman so none of them are getting to Hawk-Man. Also none of the homunculus would survive the heat & a blast from Father."
Father is not blasting any of my team. Your not out of my reach. And your running out of options if you truly believe you are going to just heat vision everyone safely
"Ed Al and Armstrong will never tag the JL Robot because it can teleport faster than Superman can hit it."
They will have plenty of time when he is occupied with other people. When he fought superman it was 1v1 NOT 3 vs.13
"Father isn't going any where having just incinerated his whole team and massively weakened his own stone."
irrelevant as I already addressed this Father + a couple children take JL out fast, with no need for energy blasts. Save them for Supes
"My team can teleport, fly out of range, & fast enough to blitz no slow transmuted projectiles are tagging them. And unless you show durability that allows your team to survive heat vision and Father's blast your down to one character, Father. Who isn't fast, can't fly, weakening with every blast form both sides & has been taken out by far less."
Untrue as I already addressed this above your team will get tagged, they have no idea what alchemic powers anyone has. Or the homunculis powers and once your weak link dies, our ratio doubles against you. And Father has TANKED a molten shower with no shield in his battle against the sacrifices.
I have just as much likelihood to spot you as well
But my team is still teleporting in attacking your team, so that still means they get the advantage to quick draw on your team.
fair enough. What do you mean by "noting enhancements"?
Just looking at bone structure or the lack of one would give away enough details on strengths and weapons. Such as Lust with claws, Ed lacking limbs, Al being an armor & Pride being hollow. Most of your team has an enchantment that's skin deep (Greed) but looking down to the bones would mean nothings overlooked.
It seems like you go back to this point further into the debate several times. And as I said above about Fathers focus in this fight. "more likely than not, doubling up on superman to finish him fast" If you have intent on having JL Robot going straight for father you have already brought the fight to me. Where you are your must vulnerable, thank you. And with regard to Father killing everyone, that is very unlikely Father is nothing like superman; who blindly runs in flailing his fists around.
Father is your team's only hope to overpower mine form a distance. There is really no need to debate what the homunculus (excluding Father) an alchemist attack with, my team will have incinerated them with their initial attack. They starts out of range that can be increased, has fire power that trumps transmutation weapons, & above all faster.
I never stated JL a Robot was physically attacking none of your team or leaving the air. I stated will make a boom tube or three if necessary to redirect attacks but that tactic isn't needed until Father tries to blast my team. None of the alchemist or homunculus (I don't count father in this category) have range attacks that will do harm to the JL Robot. They have no way of tagging it due to flight an teleportation and will die from its beam.
Also my team isn't spiting up only moving to safety. There will be no chance of "doubling up on superman to finish him fast". Meaning any time Father uses his all powerful blast the JL Robot will be there to redirect it.
My team isn't doing yours any favors so either they over power them with range or fight them in the air assuming they have the speed.
I'll address Smith below.
Mustang has completely incinerated a large portion of the mannequin army into dust; teeth, bone everything gone. that's pretty damn hot. And what does that superman have to do with anything? your using Superman: Superman/Batman Apocalypse. And heat wont be necessary to kill your robot that's just how superman did it.
That's not hotter than 2,500°F that takes between 1,400°F to 1,800°F to accomplish. The Superman (gods & monsters) that fought the JL Robot punched it to a magma chamber (at the end of this gif) and took a magma bath. But Superman was still burned by heat beam generated by the JL Robot. That takes temps above 2,500°F Mustang doesn't compare.
from superman? while JL robot is after father(which wont last long) OR from JL robot while superman is fighting father/smith etc.? countless beams is unlikely, that requires time to stand still especially with somebody like Greed who will require a lasting beam in order to do any real damage. All while your trying to avoid projectiles and Prides shadow tendrils grabbing or cutting into you, envy snatching ahold of you, Alchemy, other Homunculi etc.
From both my team teleported above your team's location and will blast your team before they could defend themselves. There is no plausible way your team would expect or react to the teleport.
Superman isn't fighting alone your continuous attempts to counter him isn't in your teams powerset but it is in mine. The JL Robot will teleport Smith and my team away to destroy him then port back. That's if Smith can survive the heat, feats you have yet to show.
A continuous combined blast form Superman & JL Robot will kill your alchemist and Homunculus. Your team has no defense up nor the durability to survive. That includes Greed who doesn't go full shield.
You're vastly overestimating the offenses of the alchemist and homunculus. The attacks are far too slow not to dogged the JL Robot can teleport my team anywhere on the battlefield, your team will get blasted form any direction in the air. My team holding the higher position means blasting down will take out anything shot at them, and they wouldn't fail to notice a shadow raising to grab them.
faster perhaps, but whats done is done(with regards to the ice wall) and it wont matter JL robot will have its hands full. Isaac is still fast enough to react to Supermans eye beams.
The JL Robot and Superman isn't maybe faster they simply are.Your team's strategy starts after my team attacks "after learning my location and beginning your assault on my team, you will force everyone to band even closer together" The only character that can be interpreted to be preparing is envy" who will turn true form at the beginning of the fight" I'm not 100% sure of that because of your wording.
ex. Isaac has reacted to Mustangs flame point blank in time to counter his attack stopping him from getting fried. That's fast enough to defend himself from Supes eyebeams IMO and superman isn't going toe to toe with him right from the start...is he?
Wrath has dodged Roy's alchemy head on making the blast no faster than bullets.
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While superman shoots heat vision at hypersonic speed. Isaac for all the speed you're claim isn't faster than Wrath (shown in the YouTube link). That's no where near Superman.
To answer your question Superman is focusing on your whole team replicating only a fraction of what he did to the Doomsday clones. Your team isn't massive in numbers such as the clones, Superman isn't alone having the JL Robot to do most of the work.
Not when either Father or one of the Alchemists (Armstrong) start attacking superman when coupled with Smith or all three at once. His heat resistance doesn't matter when hes shown to be stunned easily and straight up punched out, more than once. He will have too many people on him While JL robot is fighting the Homunculi children.
There isn't any way you can avoiding showing feats. Your chooses are show feats or conceded that Smith wouldn't survive. Heat vision requires Superman to look at Smith and Superman is faster on the draw. Smith isn't speed blitzing nor is he winning against Superman and JL Robot.
You don't get to decided who my team fights as my team is faster, can teleport and has perfect team work. My team will cover each other, Smith attacking Superman makes it 1 vs 3, & none of your team can follow the JL robots teleports. The JL Robot will cut Smith to pieces and incinerate him, Hawk-Man will electrocute Smith, while Superman takes his turn pummeling Smith.
As I said above, Mustang's fire was shown to be to the level where he could literally dust people, as he did with the mannequin army. and all I said of the gif is that I was more impressed by the trees being scorched.
Superman has shown the same and the JL Robot has shown better and both are attacking. Mustang has shown fire is the fastest way kill the homunculus my team has superior fire power and the speed to utilize it. Your alchemist & homunculus lacks durability/defence or the healing factor to survive.
If he gets a chance to even tag him while being continuously attacked by Pride, Smith, Father(perhaps depending on who you decide is focusing their attention on him), Armstrong, etc. Superman had no trouble dodging Darkseids eyebeams, so its unlikely some one who is obiously faster,like Smith, would have little trouble dodging supermans eye beams. he will get punched out.
Superman being faster than your whole team combined will get the chance, It isn't a question of if. Smith is supersonic in combat speed Superman is hypersonic. Superman will fly circles around Smith.
distance(1km) is practically irrelevant. so its a real alloy? making it fair game to be manipulated, by any alchemist.
The Homunculi would be more willing to work with the humans than visa versa. Smith would likely get help from either group and Homunculi like Pride/Envy demand the attention of everyone on your team. We may not have the best co-op but there's enough of us to where you are still seriously outnumbered.
I'm wasn't going to press the issue of team work/infighting but you stating the will work together is false. Father thinks he's superior to humans & will kill the alchemist who took his godhood. Gluttony wants to eat, Wrath wants to fight, and envy enjoys watching humans suffer. Father will be the first to take out the alchemist & the alchemist will have the same responds. Isaac most of all because he hates Bradley. Greed is on the fence because he's in it for himself, so he'll take his chance to absorb Father stone.
The Father, Homunculus, Alchemist & Smith will fight separate or they will fight one another. There isn't a way to get around this. I didn't initially address to give you a debate with teams on equal terms. But realistically the minute before my team attacks your team will be infighting form the start (including Smith, Father wouldn't think differently of him) and my team only needs to show up and kill Father. Father alone will let lose wiping out your whole team.
This is why team work is asked about before the matches or perfect team work is given as a perk. Because of that no one can fault me for stating this.
I already posted his fight above and keeping up with Neo and beating him is evidence enough that they aren't going to just tag Smith so easy or even at all, especially with everyone else attacking you
Superman and the JL Robot is faster than your whole team combined. Fact.
out of range from who? Gluttany lust sloth and wrath? that's about it as everyone else can reach you easily, and you still cant even count THEM out
Count them out? The Alchemist & Homunculus don't even factor into the fight. They're slow, have little fire power and for all their abilities are glass cannons. My team only needs one hit which is achieve in their first attack.
How is Envy a coward?? Also Mustang was pinpointing his flame on Envy's eyes and tongue, something which no one in your team is capable of doing. I already addressed your energy blast theory....
Envy is all bark no bite, he was willing to take on the alchemist alone but after receiving a few burn got scared and ran away. My team will burn him to ashes.
What do you think Smith was doing when he drove Neo head first into the pavement? re watch that, the velocity from his speed alone was enough to leave that crater + the shockwave that ensued afterwards. I'm not even convinced Superman could have done his speed without sun baking after getting KO'd into Orbit, he showed it NOWHERE else.
Feats for Hawk-mans speed???
Smith's speed is no where near mach 25. Superman was recharged enough to continue fighting that's nowhere near an amp. Considering Superman returned form space puts his speed vastly over Smith's best speed. There isn't any way Smith could move fast enough Superman would not see him.
Superman has shown he's fast enough into Gotham and catch a blimp. Taking into consideration Superman wasn't aware of the situation before still means he would have to be traveling high supersonic speed.
Hawk-Man doesn't need speed feats for Superman to get him clear of a blast.
You realize that BASE Smith punches faster than high velocity bullet speed and to even tag Neo in "revelations" would be harder than tagging any of your team.
Mach 2 is the best he can claim to be faster than, that's not much. Also I assume you mean "revolutions" where Neo and Smith are at their strongest.
Father is not blasting any of my team. Your not out of my reach. And your running out of options if you truly believe you are going to just heat vision everyone safely
Father would kill your alchemist form the start there isn't a need for my team to do so. And at any time he attempts a blast on my team the JL Robot will redirect it. None of the Homunculus would survive the heat anyway.
My team is dozens of meters above the ground, has the speed to fly & teleport than your team can perceive. If that doesn't put my team out of reach I don't know what will.
Could you quote me where I stated that? This is just my opening strategy which you've shown nothing to avoid. I can add more factors to my strategy and your team would still be incapable of defending. Such as the JL Robot blasting your team through boom tubes dropping them form miles up rinse and repeat. The only thing teleportation isn't allowed to do is telefrag (teleporting objects inside the body and armor) that still leaves telecut (opening a portal and closing it) and teledrop (as stated above).
My strategy if focused on your lack of defence nothing more. They can't defend against heat, speed or teleportation there is no denying that. Now applying that statement to the battle would mean Superman and Hawk-Man can act as reverse while the JL Robot uses heat speed and teleportation to take your team out. They'll not tag it and it can blast teleport, & drop your team indefinitely. Face it your team needs the JL Robot to make contact to land a hit while it doesn't need to. My team isn't doing your team any favors.
They will have plenty of time when he is occupied with other people. When he fought superman it was 1v1 NOT 3 vs.13
This proves nothing which is what my above statements have shown. Your team cannot hold something they cannot hit meaning its free to move as needed. The JL Robot isn't suffering form CIS as it did in the video that's why characters are made expensive. So it isn't going to stand there and allow your team to fry its mother-boxes but no one besides Father can do so anyway.
Your alchemist get one shotted by the JL Robot there isn't any denying that.
irrelevant as I already addressed this Father + a couple children take JL out fast, with no need for energy blasts. Save them for Supes
Not happening.
Untrue as I already addressed this above your team will get tagged, they have no idea what alchemic powers anyone has. Or the homunculis powers and once your weak link dies, our ratio doubles against you. And Father has TANKED a molten shower with no shield in his battle against the sacrifices.
You have proved anything. My team as stated before isn't doing your any favors either they fight in the air wit the speed to match or they stay grounded. Letting my team blast them, redirect their attacks or teledrop them that's an fun option. My strongest link can take out 99% of your team. Your team will lose characters before mine.
Father needed shield for the entire battle because without it he would get overwhelmed.
@mr_ingenuity: @lukehero: Before I Retort this...I need to get something straight, sorry this is my first tournament. (WONT BE BACK ON UNTIL TOMORROW) then we can settle this match
1: This fight is in Baghdad not the sky....I would like a cap given to Mr.Igenuity's height to which he can fly before leaving the battlefield. Personally I wasn't thinking the fight would be any higher than the tallest building(ish), flight still would help but he is talking about continuously going up ridiculously high...
AND
2: Your team (mr ingenuity) is "in character" they may be morals off but RULES state "in character, but willing to kill". You are trying to build a strategy of spamming eyebeams from high above in the sky and not engaging my team at all physically your words not mine. THIS IS NOT "IN CHARACTER" for either of JL robot/superman (from what you've shown me). Provide a video of Either of them solely spamming eyebeams and not going into direct combat with ANYONE, they are not the cowards you are making them out to be. And what has been shown shows contrary to his strategy. Also you have tried to correct me on what Greed would/wouldn't do which seems even overly unfair considering your own strategy.
ex. JL robot & Superman fight, both of whom can fly. Hit each other until one hits the ground, then they fight on the ground for the remander he doesn't spam eyebeams at all but rather engages him. Superman is the exact same, he didn't just fly up and fry the Doomsdaybots, he went fist first....
Ok @mr_ingenuity I apologize that I cant have a full response for you, thank you for being patient...
O!! please provide evidence that JL robot can teleport your team. Has he teleported while "locked in combat" H2H with superman or any other person? because with regards to other fiction being able to teleport doesn't mean the same as you can teleport everybody.
Everyone was aware some of these characters can fly. As long as you aren't going beyond the Stratosphere which is like 31 Miles up? It's fine in my book. Flying is a premium power and would automatically make characters more expensive. Going high up isn't really a problem, it's just something you have to keep in mind when picking a team.
@vashtanerada88:I would rather wait until you have a full post but this isn't really debating strategy but rules, so I'll discuss .
2: Your team (mr ingenuity) is "in character" they may be morals off but RULES state "in character, but willing to kill". You are trying to build a strategy of spamming eyebeams from high above in the sky and not engaging my team at all physically your words not mine. THIS IS NOT "IN CHARACTER" for either of JL robot/superman (from what you've shown me). Provide a video of Either of them solely spamming eyebeams and not going into direct combat with ANYONE, they are not the cowards you are making them out to be. And what has been shown shows contrary to his strategy. Also you have tried to correct me on what Greed would/wouldn't do which seems even overly unfair considering your own strategy.
Why would my team do yours any favors? Superman x-rayed your team so my team does know your team has humans. The Superman Robot (1/3 of the JL Robot) in Gods & Monsters IIRC didn't through one punch when attacking the scientist but burned every one of them. So that's incharacter when fighting physically inferior opponents. Superman has done the same with Doomsday clones but this time he isn't going to wait until his team has taken heavy loses(amazon army). An incharacter Superman wouldn't punch a human anyway but restrain them quickly as possible.
If your team was full of flying characters I would have taken a different approach. If Smith engaging my team in the air mean he can fight on an equal level so my team wouldn't hesitate to pummel him.
ex. JL robot & Superman fight, both of whom can fly. Hit each other until one hits the ground, then they fight on the ground for the remander he doesn't spam eyebeams at all but rather engages him. Superman is the exact same, he didn't just fly up and fry the Doombots, he went fist first....
You're trying to debate CIS character induced stupidity, not going to work here. My team only has a few appearances in the case of JL Robot and Superman 1 movie. Hawk-Man has the most with 4 - 8 episodes. So how they uses their powers morals off to be the most deadly is open to interpretation.
O!! please provide evidence that JL robot can teleport your team. Has he teleported while "locked in combat" H2H with superman or any other person? because with regards to other fiction being able to teleport doesn't mean the same as you can teleport everybody.
Boom Tubes are capable of portals and spot teleportation. Opening a boom tube in close proximity pulls them through & the JL Robot has three mother boxes to open three boom tubes, if necessary.
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