trigon vs galactus

Galactus 

@Outside_85 said:

Sure he has lost to a bunch of teenagers (which according to Raven is something they are alone with) whenever he's appeared, but from the looks of it Galactus still hasn't eaten the Earth despite over a dozen attempts.

I may be wrong, but if I remember correctly, Galactus has only failed thrice in trying to devour the Earth: the first time he is thwarted by the ultimate Nullifier (an aspect of his own being), the second time he is on a stall with the Phoenix (Jean Grey about to become the Dark Phoenix) and prefers to leave. The third and last time, he is so starved that the heroes of the Earth manage to K.O him (silly story, I know) and then revive him with a machine designed by Richards and fuelled by Mjolnir. At the end of the third attempt Galactus declares that he has found on Earth what even him must call friends and lives, promising no to try to devour the Earth anymore.

@DocFatalis: Hmm, that may be...as I am not much of a FF reader I cant really say :S But it just seems that besides Doom, Galactus is just about FF's most recurring foe?

I'll go with Galactus.

@Killemall said:

@DocFatalis said:

I'd say it is the exact opposite: in the beginning, Galactus was the only being at this power level in the entire MU (FF#48-49). We suspected the watcher was almost as powerful in a pacific way, but that's pretty much all. The coming of Galactus literally changed the world of comics.

-_-

What????

Both Dormammu and Eternity made their appearance before Galactus .

To the best of my knowledge Watcher has fought Galactus twice and lost both time (non-cannon, what if issues), so i dont think Watcher were ever made to me more powerful than Galactus.

Then Marvel used him to make other characters they wanted to promote appear good, and we've seen the stupidest things in the name of business.

You have me at a loss here, who are we talking about?

Some elements though remain very consistent along the years, as him being one of the main entities of the MU (a face of the LT, brother/father of Eternity etc...) and the fact that he is feared by every civilization in the universe for his might.

Yes thats all and good , but how does that change anything in terms of his power level?

If we respect the battles forum rules that specify we should use the current version of a character, we find a very powerful entity with remarkable feats even when de-powered, whether it would be during the Annihilation arc or during the Orbucen encounter with Nova, big G stands at an extremely high level.

Well he is a powerful dude, we are not saying he isnt, what we are however saying is Trigon might be more powerful.

The reason why recent readers have the feeling that Galactus is not that powerful, is because once or twice per decade, they let a writer or an other have his character hit/slow down/weaken the big guy just to promote said character or make him look more important than he his, but anyone who's been reading Marvel for more than 20 years know how central and unique Galactus is. it has even been stated by Stan Lee in both a written and a spoken interview.

I dont think Galactus's power level has ever changed, he's looked as powerful as ever. The only thing is, old comics are filled with hyperbole. The same is true for Thor ,how many times pre-Jurgen's run have we heard it being stated that Thor can bench press a planet, or hit hard enough to shatter a small planet?

Thats how the old books rolled, Odin apparently destroyed a Galaxy with an attack. So did Surtur, but an angry Galactus who had just recently absorbed all the cosmic energy from Annihilus ship, in Annihilation 06 only manged to destroy 3 star system (and a Galaxy billions times more starts than that), or in the recent run of Eternals Tiamut saying he has the power to destroy good part of the solor system (presumably with one blast), and we know full well Galactus and Tiamut where always written to be more powerful than Odin or Surtur, thats because they were surrounded by hyperboles.

Overrated? No, clearly not. Overused, and sometimes for the worst? Yes, for sure.

At last this sentiment i share :), big G isnt over-rated , he is overused because among the cosmic being Galactus is more recognized by general reader than any other beings. People who are not much into comics and have just recently started up on it, dont know how Eternity is, let alone Order/ Chaos or Love / Hate, so he gets overused.

Dormammu and Eternity were introduced a year before, it's true, but they were presented as mystical beings belonging more to magic realms than anything else. It probably would have been more correct of me to say that Galactus was the only big cosmic entity we knew back then. I just made my statement after Stan Lee's declaration on how this was the first time they had created such a character for their comics line and how they had never gotten so much mail before. My mistake anyway.

About The Watcher, you'll notice that I wrote we suspected that he was almost as powerful as big G back then.

I was thinking about Thor, the High Evolutionary, the Space Knights, Dazzler and probably a few others that I don't remember right now. Kirby and Lee knew that was a risk and didn't want their character to appear that often in the beginning in order to preserve his impact, but Stan Lee explained that comics need to sell in order to survive.

It doesn't change his power level, I was just stating that his power level is higher than the mere planet devourer job he is oftenly given.

The reason why I think he is more powerful than Trigon is also because Trigon doesn't inspire much fear in the DCU and he is not shown with a realm much bigger than a pocket universe. I even remember a story where they explained that his universe was a small interdimensional place with nothing much left in it. i may be wrong though, I stopped reading anything about this characters during the 90's since I found it resolutely shallow.

I think it has changed depending on the stories and the writers, from the constantly hungry and angry guy who battles creatures much weaker than he is to the godlike entity who won't even address Nova described by Lanning, there is quite a gap. Somewhere in the middle probably stands the Galactus of the Infinity Gauntlet (this one was a bit nerfed according to me, missing Warlock with his optical blast looks very much out of character). The artists have had their influence too: Kirby, Buscema, Moebius focused on different aspects of the might we can see.

I agree about the Hyperbole thing, especially for "asgardian" titles, but we have lots of recent titles where the power levels don't seem very coherent. Chaos war for example was an abomination.

@DocFatalis said:

Dormammu and Eternity were introduced a year before, it's true, but they were presented as mystical beings belonging more to magic realms than anything else. It probably would have been more correct of me to say that Galactus was the only big cosmic entity we knew back then. I just made my statement after Stan Lee's declaration on how this was the first time they had created such a character for their comics line and how they had never gotten so much mail before. My mistake anyway.

About The Watcher, you'll notice that I wrote we suspected that he was almost as powerful as big G back then.

I was thinking about Thor, the High Evolutionary, the Space Knights, Dazzler and probably a few others that I don't remember right now. Kirby and Lee knew that was a risk and didn't want their character to appear that often in the beginning in order to preserve his impact, but Stan Lee explained that comics need to sell in order to survive.

It doesn't change his power level, I was just stating that his power level is higher than the mere planet devourer job he is oftenly given.

The reason why I think he is more powerful than Trigon is also because Trigon doesn't inspire much fear in the DCU and he is not shown with a realm much bigger than a pocket universe. I even remember a story where they explained that his universe was a small interdimensional place with nothing much left in it. i may be wrong though, I stopped reading anything about this characters during the 90's since I found it resolutely shallow.

I think it has changed depending on the stories and the writers, from the constantly hungry and angry guy who battles creatures much weaker than he is to the godlike entity who won't even address Nova described by Lanning, there is quite a gap. Somewhere in the middle probably stands the Galactus of the Infinity Gauntlet (this one was a bit nerfed according to me, missing Warlock with his optical blast looks very much out of character). The artists have had their influence too: Kirby, Buscema, Moebius focused on different aspects of the might we can see.

I agree about the Hyperbole thing, especially for "asgardian" titles, but we have lots of recent titles where the power levels don't seem very coherent. Chaos war for example was an abomination.

1. Eternity was introduced as the living embodiment of EVERYTHING I dont think there can be a more powerful statement than that.
2. I think you mis-understood my intention, what i meant was 2 fights with Watcher where he lost badly, so he's not where near as powerful as Galactus. Watcher also got stomped by Celesital in FF: Even Watchers can die.
3. Thor, The High Evolutionary, Space Knights and Dazzlers what have they done to Galactus.
4. The size of the realm doesnt determine the powers, Trigon has always been only defeated via plot weapons (much like Galactus), he has consumed a universe (while standing atop a planet, i wonder how that works) and has been uber powerful and lot less vulnerable than Galactus. The list of people who have actually hurt Galactus are quite long.
5. Galactus has been modeled to being slightly a good guy, rather than a god who couldnt give 2 hoots about anyone but himself, that much i agree. Galactus didnt look overtly powerful in IG either, if anything Infinity Wars would be a better example because Galactus, Dr. Strange and SS were blasted to death by Magus and Galactus brough himself as well as the remaining two back to life. It was stated it is thus because Galactus will is more powerful than Lady Death's.
6. Can agree more with the last line :)

GALACTUS!!!!!!!! but Trigon puts up a decent tussle..........

@DocFatalis said:

@jeanroygrant: So did Adam Warlock once, and I still wouldn't root him against Galactus.

One of the most consistent things about Trigon is that he gets his ass kicked by a bunch of teen-agers on a regular basis. It really doesn't look classy on a major demon's resume: "What are your qualifications as a cosmic being? Well, I got the Teen Titans breaking my face twice during the eighties and a number of times since".

One of those teenagers being his daughter who has retained his ability's.

@JediXMan said:

Galactus. Already beat Mephisto in his own realm; I'd say Trigon is comparable to Mephisto.

Mephisto would barely stand a chance against Silver Surfer. I severely doubt he is comparable to Trigon.

@mcool135 said:

@JediXMan said:

Galactus. Already beat Mephisto in his own realm; I'd say Trigon is comparable to Mephisto.

Mephisto would barely stand a chance against Silver Surfer. I severely doubt he is comparable to Trigon.

Many argue the legitimacy of that. Galactus, at the start of their fight, had a difficult time with Mephisto until he started feeding on Mephisto's realm itself.

@JediXMan said:

@mcool135 said:

@JediXMan said:

Galactus. Already beat Mephisto in his own realm; I'd say Trigon is comparable to Mephisto.

Mephisto would barely stand a chance against Silver Surfer. I severely doubt he is comparable to Trigon.

Many argue the legitimacy of that. Galactus, at the start of their fight, had a difficult time with Mephisto until he started feeding on Mephisto's realm itself.

Didn't Thor beat Mephisto in his on realm? Also I think Cyttorak is arguably stronger then Mephisto. So what would happen if Galactus entered the universe destroyers realm and Trigon gave him little time to feed off his realm?

@YuriRepedeRitaCarol: There both overrated.

Trigon has never died only banished Galactus has been killed before. trigon biggest weakness is Raven he needs her to enter and conquer earth and she appears be the only capable of banishing him, that is why the titans beat him. So if Trigon and Galatcus meet in a fight and ravens not around Trigon wins.

of the thing can beat galactus, im sure trigon can..

Galactus

@killemall: This is an automatic mismatch Galactus wins no matter what. Trigon may be powerful and he may put up a good fight, but Trigon has no protection over molecular disintegration and Galactus has had feats beyond what even Trigon can do. (Example) "Galactus blows up planets with just looking at them" (I don't know if I made any mistakes but please don't scream at me saying that I'm an idiot if I did.)

@linkflash0: There is this, and this was just to intimidate Raven and Arella.

New 52 however he is a bit more... graphic: (For those who dont know, Trigon wanted the Earth in one piece as a trophy-world in pre FP continuety, post FP... because human women are the only ones he can have strong offspring with).

Trigon.

Can't Trigon make himself bigger than earth and throw stars at Galactus?

It annoys me to no end to see people who know little to nothing about Trigon call out Galactus as the winner. Here's an album of classic Trigon's important feats

New 52 Trigon doesn't have exactly the same feats but they are pretty close. He still originally drew his power from countless dark souls and he still has destroyed Universes, way beyond what Galactus can accomplish.

Here's New 52 Trigons Origin Story

@themagicstik: Then by all means, go ahead and show us Trigon actually destroying a universe (don't show us statements).

Even at his peak, Trigon was about to destroy the universe, something which didn't happen, and this was a pre-crisis story.

.... Uhhh Trigon pretty easy too.

He is a dimension level threat. Universe destroying is nothing for him. Also, he is pretty much everyone's baby daddy.

@dedrabbit: Dimensions are smaller than universes

@rolldestroyer: Not only do Trigon and Raven say Trigon destroys Universes, the Narrator says Trigon destroys Universes, that is a credible feat 100% no argueing. Also I'm pretty sure at least half of those feats are post-crisis.

Right, and Galactus isn't? You're actually saying that Galactus isn't a universal threat?

That's false. That is a massive exaggeration on your part. He never destroyed a single universe on panel.

Dimensions are usually universes, only the pocket dimensions are smaller than actual universes.

Galactus stomps.

I don't recall that instance, but yeah, it's cool, Galactus was destroying the multiverse in one instance.

Let's also ignore that a couple of random wizards were containing Trigon:

Gallery

Or that the heroes actually managed to defeat him (with the help of his wife Arella):

Gallery

........or that he once reached a point where he was only one-tenth of his power:

Gallery

Nah.....isn't it just easier to call everybody else ignorant and make it seem like you know what you're talking about? When in fact, you don't. Because Trigon never destroyed a universe.

Trigon only wins if he's in his realm.

Trigon would win. He was one time said to be on the Specter's level in an issue of Swamp Thing.

@rolldestroyer:

Ok I had a whole post but it got deleted when I posted it nice, I guess I'll try to write it back up again.

In your first set of scans you're highlighting Trigon's one weakness which is gaining entrance into Universes which not only does he overcome but it holds no relevence in this fight, that is what is called a red herring arguement.

The second scan is just another loss to Trigon brought about by Deus Ex and once again has no relevence here, he is being weakened by his two relatives, Arella and Raven, if they were not there doing their thing, they would not be able to beat Trigon back and it's not like they actually killed him, which is impossible.

The third scan if anything backs my arguement more than yours. I fail to see the relevence of him being in a weakened state, I never said that couldn't happen, in fact the same thing happens all the time to Galactus, which makes your arguement seem all the more rediculous. In that scan Trigon himself states in his weakened state at 1/10th of his power he could destroy the Universe and from his previous feats which you oh so enjoy to ignore, I'm inclined to believe him.

Maybe you're not ignorant but I wasn't talking about you in the first place, but you are ignoring scans even your own as a matter of fact, Trigon is capable of destruction on a Universal scale and Galactus is not. I already gave you proof there is no more need for me to argue.

Oh and another thing I forgot to mention, the Monitor ranked Trigon and Spectre on the same level, so if you think Spectre cannot stomp Galactus, you're just kidding yourself.

.........What? They were supressing Trigon's power, im not "highlighting Trigon's one weakness", stop making things up.

Nah, this is you talking nonsense.

A couple of random wizards (never seen again) were able to contain Trigon. Here's the bio confirmation:

"Held in check by a group of Azarethian sorcerers"

Next time write something relevant instead of the nonsense you wrote about me red herring.

Right, it's not like the scans show that the entire team was contributing to him being weakened, right?

If the teen titans can actually make a difference (to make Trigon weaker), then we have a huge problem here, now don't we?

Don't come at me with circles. Arella wasn't the only one weakening him, it was the entire team (the fact that they can make a difference, speaks for itself), period.

The 3rd set of scans was to show that Trigon isn't exactly always at full power, and needs certain stipulations to achieve that.

OP says 1 day of prep to each, meaning Galactus gets the ultimate nullifier, which is -- based on statements which you're willing to believe -- is omniversal (meaning Trigon is literally nothing compared to it), when in fact it has never shown to be on that level. But if we're going to take empty statements as facts, then so be it.

Oh i know you weren't talking about me, you were saying that anyone who voted for Galactus doesn't know about Trigon, when in fact you're the one who doesn't know jack about Galactus if you think he isn't capable of universal level destruction, because this has been proven many times (especially that you take statements into account, without it actually happening).

Oh?

Okay.

It's also stated that Trigon is a wimp compared to Darkseid.

If you think that Galactus can't stomp Darkseid, you're kidding yourself.

No relevance there, though, right?

@rolldestroyer:

1. When he says surpress the power of Trigon he's not saying they're littereally weakening him, they are just keeping him from crossing the portal that is it, it seems like you think it means they are litterally weakening him but that is just not the case. Once again that is Trigon's thing he wrecks tons of Universes but he has trouble getting through to theirs which still has no relevence.

2. It seems you're misinterpretting a scan again or you don't care and you're just trying to win your arguement. When Raven says "We are weakening Trigon" she means her and Arella not the entire team lol. Clearly shown in the scan Arella and Raven weaken Trigon which allows Wondergirl to rope him and then Cyborg and Starfire combined knock him through the portal that Kid Flash opened. If it wasn't for the link Arella, Trigon, and Raven shared none of what they did would be possible so the scan also holds no relevence.

3. So what you're saying is that we're assuming Trigon isn't at full power in this fight? What? Like come on you just seem to be grasping at straws. Even in his weakened state Trigon was extremely powerful and obviously obviously obviously we are using full power Trigon...

Concerning the Ultimate Nullifier, yes it's an ultimately powerful weapon that could take out Trigon but what makes you think Galactus is going to use it in this fight? How many times does Galactus actually use the Ultimate Nullifier, once or twice? It's almost always used by other people and Galactus only has it out because he just got it back from some crazy mortal. The fact is Galactus isn't just going to look at Trigon and instantly nullify him and be done with it, it's not that easy, he would try to use his own power like he did against the Celestials when he had prep.

The fact that you're bringing up the Darkseid-Trigon thing just shows how much you want to lowball Trigon, the person who said that didn't even know who the hell Trigon was. I know you know that but you just don't care words from an ignorant girls mouth or words from a godly celestial being like the Monitor... hmmm I wonder who is move valid?

By all means, go ahead and show me where exactly i said that they're weakening Trigon?

Oh right, i didn't. I said they were containing him, which is true, that's what was shown on panel.

Tell me something, when Trigon is incapable of crossing to the other dimension because the sorcerers were holding him in check, that means Trigon is more powerful than them, right? Despite the fact that he has full access to his own dimension and had decades to prepare, right?

Yeah, makes sense.

It seems like you're talking nonsense again.

I meant that the team contributed for his defeat. And Arella along with Raven weren't the only ones who were weakening Trigon:

"We are weakening trigon, it may be possible for Wonder Girl to further dampen his will"

Then:

"My power being Drained!"

So yeah.

Anyway, the whole team contributed to his defeat, so there's that.

......more nonsense. I mean, honestly speaking, did you read that story or are you making things up (yet again)?

Go ahead and show us what exactly did Trigon do for you to consider him "extremely powerful".

Don't worry, ill wait

PS: Trigon got drained in that story.

Of course, that would require for you to actually read the story. Because an ultimate nullifier proved ineffective against the Celestials:

Gallery

Give me one good reason why would Galactus not use the Ultimate Nullifier to obliterate Trigon and his entire dimension?

That doesn't change the fact that you're going by 1 statement over the overall showings.

Eternity (who's omniscient) has called the Living Tribunal as a "peer", does that automatically make him his equal? No it doesn't.

@rolldestroyer: just in one sentence alone can show us you ignorance. eternity is omniscient huh, good work, you just lost all credit, showing that you are just a fanboy.

trigon, a guy who devoured a universe got drained by kids who could not even beat superman in their encounter. everyone know what that means

Aw............says who? a nobody like you?

Yeah.

Of course, my claims -- unlike your trollish bullshit -- is backed by on panel evidence. Dormammu was omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent when he gained Eternity's power:

LOL, that's a seriously pathetic attempt on your part to make me look bad. Good job.

Still though, when i say "omniscient" i mean virtually omniscient, i thought this should be obvious, considering that there are established beings above Eternity (apart from LT).

@rolldestroyer:

a nobody like me. this is really helping your argument, resorting to such petty insults. anyway, if i am a nobody, but then WHAT ARE YOU?

when people says omniscient, they mean omniscient. you just backed up RIGHT THERE. omniscient and night/virtual omniscience have different meanings. go learn English before you try to talk.

and everyone knows that statements are kind of useless unless there are feats to back it up. i am pretty sure that molecule man (nigh omnipotent) can beat LT, and LT can beat oblivion, and oblivion can beat eternity. omnipotent, yeah right.

PS, me trolling? stop being a hypocrite, it is sad to watch.

Resorting to insults......? are you serious? i mean it's not like you're the one who came into this thread to start a flamewar by calling me ignorant and fanboy, right?, here's your own quote:

LOL at the irony.

There are levels of infinity, so theoretically speaking, Eternity is "omniscient", TOAA on the other hand, or the LT are on a greater level of infinity. It's been explained on panel.

Still tough, i just love how you come into this thread just to nitpick this one single claim of mine to start a flamewar (something which i won't entertain....bad news for you, i guess)

LOL. Well this pretty much confirms it. You're here to troll and not to contribute anything.

You do realize i am using this same argument against him, right? He was saying that Trigon is Spectre's equal based on a statement, im the one who told him that feats are needed to back up this statement.

By all means, continue to embarrass yourself and troll.

Oh yes, if anything, this very post of yours speaks for itself.

There are levels of infinity, so theoretically speaking, Eternity is "omniscient", TOAA on the other hand, or the LT are on a greater level of infinity. It's been explained on panel.

actually, if you put it like that, then captain America is omniscient too. levels of infinity has nothing to do with power levels, which are relative. if there is someone more powerful than the supposed omnipotent guy, then he is not omnipotent.

all the other sentences are just ignorant insults, only one is worth replying to, and that one is wrong. this is really sad. and i did not mean to start a flame war, i only stated the obvious. if you can not beat the truth, then i will have to go easy on you, i was wrong to treat you as an adult.

@rolldestroyer: to explain more about infinity, just look at it like this.

first, we have pure infinity. we use numbers as examples. three sets. all stretch on to infinity. the first set has odd numbers, the second has numbers that end with five, and the third set has all numbers included. the third set is on a different level of infinity right?

but now, we put infinity with power levels, and see how it works. three lasers, all can last an infinite amount of time, but one is more powerful then the rest. then all three are on the same level of infinity, but one has more power. THAT is what it is about. when putting an equation to use on something, you have to change it slightly. my explanation can explain what the guy stated in that encounter with the celestial.

but still, you can not expect a writer to know everything about science right? now looking back, i apologize for coming on too strong. there are just too many people saying beings are omnipotent, then use levels of infinity to back it up. i got carried away. if you flag me for doing that, i will not blame you.

Actually, that's nonsense. Because the levels of omnipotence apply to beings who have supernatural powers on a universal scale at the very least, that's why Kubik/Kosmos were called "minor (key word) omnipotents".

LOL at your horrible Captain America analogy; still though, something good came out of it: i LOLed.

You say ignorant insults yet you seem to fail to understand that you're the one who started throwing insults even though i didn't even talk to you in this thread.

Seems legit

So you didn't mean to start a flamewar yet you came at me with insults?

Sure thing.

Besides, your "obvious" turned out to be wrong. So that's even a bigger fail, on your part.

More power to you.

@rolldestroyer: another post above you. i do not blame you for not understanding what relative means, so i explained it better

I understand what you're saying but i don't think that's what is meant by the levels of infinity.

In my opnion, it mostly refers to scale, meaning, Living Tribunal is omnipotent on a multiversal (and Beyond) scale, as opposed to someone like Kubik.

That's also supported by the fact that each universe in marvel is infinite in size, yet the multiverse contains infinite of those universes.......

Anyway, it's impossible for us -- humans -- to explain this concept in full.

See, now that your reply was more respectful, i responded accordingly (without any insults).

@rolldestroyer: scale can measure how big something is, but infinity, is something scale can never measure. scales have limits while infinity has none. and while your argument is pretty sound, you forgot relativity. we need to compare to understand, so when we compare kublik to LT, it shows that he is not as powerful, but his power is still infinite. three factors; relativity, power, and infinity. i say three because one can not represent the other. infinity is a measure of HOW MUCH power someone has, power is a measure of power, and relativity is used to compare both when power levels are concerned. first compare the number, if both could not be compared, then compare the power.

You are wrong, watcher was meant to be around equally powerful as Galactus in those first years there is a What if issue where The Watcher kills Galactus (he did it kinda easy too) and after gets trial from the council of watchers

i don't know enough about trigon so i will go with galactus

Trigon could just make himself bigger then the sun and throw planets at Galactus or something crazy like that.

Trigon.

Galactus

Trigon

Trigon