tourny/R1 boschepg/higorm VS killemall/omgomg

@boschepg: @omgomgwtfwtf: @killemall@higorm

No knowledge=random encounter

that we know. we want to know what we are doing in the 7 days of prep. what are we prepping?

We are assuming that we dont know all info on people like Sentry or Ultron or Kang but know its a robot, and time traveler

Absolutely great debate one and all.

7 days is together everything you need and think about what your team will bring. (weapons, drones,artifacts,ect). Than you have 4hours to put everything together with your team. (They can work together)

so we prep whatever scenario might come up in 7 days to win a battle and 4 days to implement correct?

Yes.

@thundergodswrath: @killemall@omgomgwtfwtf@higorm

thats fine cuz we have already stated that we would prep for any scenario since we have a magic guy, a robot guy, and Reed prevents hacks anyways in his tech. I believe its just assumed from our opponents that we are prepping for them when realistically we matchup quite well against them and would naturally prep for such occurrences cuz its their fields of expertise.

Pym, what do you do? - I do code magic and build AI.

Cool build me something that would get us pass AI.

Constantine, what do you do? I work with the supernatural.

Cool, prevent us from getting hit by magic.

Mr Jeffries, what do you do? I build tech

Cool, just build tech

Reed what do you do?

Everything.

Cool, work with Mr Jeffries and make your tech

Does anyone have any place we can use as a stronghold?

Reed, Constantine, and Pym raise hands...

Cool bring them

We have stated that we would naturally run more scenarios cuz our guys do that anyways. To our standpoint it would mean that we are prepping for whatever case scenario (which we have shown in scans), thus make sure win cuz its to the best of our abilities/ morals off.

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the scenario is basically what Reed did in the Ultimate Universe when he was the Maker. Except this time Pym is working with him. Teleporting pym size anti-matter bombs that can be teleport from a magical sealed House of Mystery is still pretty good and let the hackproof tech follow the antimatter destruction and then the real team comes in.

Its also like in Stargate when they go to another planet. They send the robot to scan the area and then send their SG teams.

I just saw this kidman. I am worried about Sentry. Im even more so cuz hes on Killemall's team but in no way am I the #2 ranked debater on this site. Im not even in the top 10

@boschepg:

I believe its just assumed from our opponents that we are prepping for them when realistically we matchup quite well against them and would naturally prep for such occurrences cuz its their fields of expertise.

No, it's not assumed, because you specifically mentioned counters like the Ultron code, which you wouldn't bring up, unless you knew that you were fighting Ultron. Honestly, pretending your prep is made for 'any' opponent is laughable. Your entire strategy revolved around trying to directly counter me and killemall's team.

Because it's no way logical to assume that your team would coincidentally prep a scenario where they face two cosmic beings, a spirit of vengeance, a time traveling warlord, a killer robot, and a man with the powers of a million exploding suns.

It's not even feasible to believe so. The scans you just posted do nothing to back your claims.

I have already stated that the Void powers within the Spartans comes with Clairvoyance and Precognition. Void is capable of sensing future events and coming major junctions in the time stream. She is able, via visions, to sense upcoming situations and major crossroads. It is simply part of an inherent nature, given that the thing he is bonded with exists at the same time in multiple time streams and dimensions. The Void also possess powerful Clairvoyant abilities that granst intuitive awareness of the environment on a cosmic level. He is capable of searching for and monitoring various events happening across the globe and is also slightly empathic as well. He can his clairvoyant talent to locate others and sense their approximate status and keep track of multiple events happening.

Not to mention that we have another way to be aware of pretty much everything from the start with Meggan. I´ve already presented her powers in my first post. If there is anyone here who can be aware of anything is her. Meggan is an empath which gives her the ability to feel the emotions of others. She has been shown to feel the emotions of people, animals, and plants. She can see psychic, natural and magical auras. This gives her the ability to track someone down by their aura.

There you go 2 clear ways my team possess from the start that grants them awarness. So yes, we can prep and simulate thousand scenarios beforehand and prep specifically for your team.

1) We should let the readers/voters to decide on that

2) If Hank Pym's greatest code is the Ultron code and we are at our best than by feats we are able to create such a device. Hank Pym code isnt also our only way to get past technopathy. Majestic rewrote code as shown and Reed has even trojan horsed his own tech. By wording, if those are our best feats than we think we should be able to do it. Its not like we have Peter Parker and are saying to make a code cuz he has no feats of such magnitude

3)We believe that when you have a magic specialist and a cosmic powerhouse standing right in front of you that you are able to prep them for just them being in your face. Then we have Reed. The team theory is the industrial military complex. We make bombs. We dont care who is in the way. All we care about does the bomb work?

Omgomgwtf - we know Killemall still has some stuff to post, do you have anything knew to post? Just asking to get to our closings before this thread ends

@omgomgwtfwtf@boschepg: @higorm: Alright lets try and put some more scans this time around and honestly it seem Boshepg is arguing simply because he has to argue as opposed to having something to argue about hehe, looks like at least he is running out of argument.

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1. We have House of Mystery plot protection

That is cool and all but you cant just say on House of Mystery can help a lot, you will have to give us a whole detail of what exactly your house of mystery can do, show strong its defenses are against both magic and cosmic attack, or how exactly is it going to prevent Genis from manipulating your brains.

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2. Robots are a trozen horse to hack your system

I would suggest you get your startegies sorted out there, HigorM is saying he would try and avoid being hacked, you are saying you want to let us hack it. Furthermore, you are saying its a trozen horse despite that being counter twice now by @omgomgwtfwtf and for whatever reason it doesnt work, again for the 4 time in a row, what is preventing Carina from simply replacing Ultron.

Again: your team gets killed they stay dead, our team gets resurrected again and again unless you can show something to contradict it.

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3. Are you implying that our BENDIS PIS Virus doesnt exist or Majestic rewriting Eradicator doesnt exist.

Now thats a huge leap of faith right there.

1. Even if the PIS Virus exists, you will somehow need to know you are fighting Ultron for you to be ready with the virus on hand.

2. You will also have to show , based on what exactly, is it going to affected an alternate reality Ultron.

3. OMG has already pointed out holes in Majestic rewriting Eradicator, and

4. Again if it works, Ultron can immediately be replace, as many times as thats required, your team cant do that

Again: you die you remain dead, we die we get resurrected.

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4. The scan said Infinite mansion is immune to reality warping

Instead of claiming again and again without no proof, why not bring up the scan where it says it did. Nothing of the sort was said in your own scan.

Then again you are ignoring Korvac and Carina expressely using their power, willy nilly, without any mention of on Infinite Mansion is immune to reality warping or Korvac power.

You frankly have no evidence that Korvac and Carina's power dont work there, and you are ignoring an instance where Korvac simply teleports inside infinite mansion and defeats avengers, based on what? Because of a sub story you just made up when nothing of the sort was ever shown in the comics?

Or how after having Carina already brought into infinite mansion the connection with her no longer would exists and her powers were working perfectly then too, so was Korvac's power.

No where on the issue was it merely hinted that , oh lets teleport the mansion away and it would automatically depower Korvac, on the contrary, it was said again and again, despite the process of bringing on future counterpart body having would have adverse affect, that was the only was to defeat Korvac in a scan you just posted.

This is increadible reaching and ignoring whats shown expressely on panel.

Lastly just because both Korvac and Carina canwarp reality does not automatically mean that is all they are capable of. Unless to you this is reality warping.

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5. Does Genis ability extent over to mystical realm.

I am a bit surprised at this question being asked again, because i just showed you a scan of Genis going to Asgard and his powers working there just fine.

Alright re-posting the scan

Genis going to Asgard

Putting Skyfather Thor's own cosmic awareness to shame

"I'm cosmically aware everything that goes in the cosmos is my business. And yet you claim I'm not a god, and you are"

"Yet your remain clueless as to things going on in your own backyard (Asgard)."

Then he shows him his cosmic awareness working just fine to King Thor, who is in awe at Genis cosmic awareness.

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6. Anti-matter bomb can take out Carina

I am frankly disappointed now despite having dealt with this in detail even in the last post, but i digress.

Lets try again, hopefully after this you will stop about going anti-matter bomb every chance you get.

You know what is going to be extremely helpful in preventing an anti-matter bomb attack,somehow being able to see you can attack us with anti-matter bomb even before you do. Which is what Genis does, here him seeing future before it happens, again.

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Or having energy shield to prevent such attacks.

Furthermore, Ultron massive durability allows him to tank the said attack and laugh at its magnitude.

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Ghost Rider can heal himself after complete and utter destruction in seconds.

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Sentry can come back to life whenever he wants so there is absolutely no viable means for you to even take out Sentry

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Sentry can resurrect people.

Genis can bring people back to life just as well

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So either Sentry or Genis can bring back Carina, who can then easily resurrect everyone on the team.

So what exactly would your anti-matter bomb do.

And you are still running around in circle fact of the matter is : we get killed we get brought back instantly, you get killed you remain dead, ergo, its not a matter of time, you simply cannot win.

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This is so awesome... I can't explain... Prolonged, well organized, actually are relying on text, using the scan as they should be (support)... I think this is one of my favorites.

@killemall: I´m going to present my counters for your last posts ok?

"Soul Burning"

I will start staying that you've agreed that Ghost Rider has never fought anyone with a nanosecond reaction time. So your reply to that was to use insects (wtf?) that seemed to be merely bothering regular humans against Majestic. Is that right? Really? Insects?! How fast they fly? Can they reach Mach 12 at least?

It´s not going to work at all despite an AOE attack. I don´t know if you remember buy Majestic is fighting invisible, inside a special suit he uses in battle situations. He also created a suit that amps his already ridiculous stats. He is also ridiculously faster than your entire team, and in top of all that he is packing 2 blades that can cut through anything and harm superhuman beings, including a Ghost Rider. The blades doesn´t cut only the substance, body or material, it also cuts the power from the enemy. That´s why Majestic was able to neutralize a top reality warper, who despite having the power to do anything, couldn´t avoid being stabbed by the blades. So there´s not healing for that.

The blades will harm the Ghost Rider, they were forged with magic and science, and has mixed those things by himself to ascend the level of a reality warper, Tao and his powers extended to magic as well and he was still cut off from his power by the blades.

Not to mention that with Constantine in the team Majestic is more than saved from anything the Ghost Rider might have to use against him.

"The Synopses messing"

This is another attempt of failure from your team. Majestic has already dealt with this kind of thing before. I will present some valid options to avoid this from happening.

• Majestic can enther the Otherspace and attack your team from there, with the Void powers, he can easily go there since is grants access to other dimensions. There is no way anyone on your team can go there since they will only be doing a favor considering that unprotected entry into Otherspace has proven fatal for anyone except Mr. Majestic. According to him, Otherspace is a place where reality is variable and basic existence can never be proven. This might prevent any telepathy from working. No matter the scale of it.
• Also, Majestic is also faster than Genis-Vell. If he can attack faster than he can perform the telepathic assault, he won´t have messing synapses to deal with.
• Think at the highest speed to avoid the attack, this kind of tactic has been proven to work by the likes of Flash.
• Considering the two form of awarness I´ve presented, he can create a device that stops telepathy from affecting electrical impulses, and considering that many telepathy display has been shown on the WildStorm Universe to work in this way and he's dealt with some of it before so it wouldn't be abnormal to him.
• Majestic has shown transmutation technology before. So he can just turn his body into something else that prevents him from working on electrical impulses. These are a couple of ways he can neutralize it.

I saw you claimed that Genis manipulated magic before, Meggan can do that too.

When Meggan was attacked by Baba Yaga, she manipulated the magical energy and used it against her.

From Captain Britain vol. 2 #11:

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So basically through her powers, Empatech possess:

• Magical Energy Manipulation:In her true form, Meggan can manipulate magical energy, i.e. deflecting spells.

"Wide telepathy distraction"

So Ultron will release this attack to mess with my team huh? Before or after he got speedblitzed? We don't need a powerfull psionic character to prevent this from happen. Telepathic defense is a pretty standard tech most of my team members can built to prevent being assaulted that way. With the amount of prep time given, among other creations, a specific device to counter psionics would be rather mutual and orginary. There is 4 prep geniuses in the team, I guess they would figure out to include this specific tech in the mix knowing they have upcomming danger ahead, don't you think?

Summarizing

1. Speed is an issue for your team considering none of them can match Mr. Majestic or have ways to counter his speed somehow. Your team just can´t deal with it.

Also, the span of the universe is around 13.7 billion light years. A light year is 6 trillion miles. Thats 8.2 times 10^22 (thats sextillion miles). It's a big number. He covered that in 4 months.

Next scans shows Mr. Majestic flying out and going back from the edge of the galaxy. If you notice, Earth is the origin. It also shows Majestic in a location with a clear identification and then he just leaves after asking for the coordinates.

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A few more examplex of his speed:

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a) My team is aware of your team thanks to the Void and Meggan powers as already mentioned. So yes we will be prepared.

b) I only need 1 member in my team to be faster than everyone else.

c) I´ve already debunked and explained that all the attempt of distraction won´t work in this scenario.

2. So the magic counters will work, since:

a) Constantine will be aware of what the enemy considering he can sense magic, and another 2 members of his team possess different ways to sense the enemy. So there´s cosmic, magic and empathy.

b) So he's not going to be teleported.

3. BFR is a valid option since there is a place called Otherspace that only Majestic is able to go in and out without being harmed, the same can´t be said for your team, no matter what.

@omgomgwtfwtf: your turn.

"Kang Time Manipulation"

kang is not the only one here with access to the timestream, nor the only one with time manipulation.

Void powers comes with Time Travel. The very nature of the Void entity, does allow to make use of the time stream and travel back and forth along it. Either into the past or into potential future settings. It grants deep awareness of the nature of time and time travel.

So it doesn't matter how good he can manipulate it. First he won´t have time to do anything. Second, my team have ways to avoid or be immune to it. Either by cosmic powers, devices or magic.

Also, the scans showing Majestic dealing with the time loop isn´t misrepresented. He was already packing the device when talking to the girl to the point the loop was in action. The moment he realized what was going on, he quickly got himself out of it. If he used the device before, he can use it now. He can build thinks from nothing faster than Kang can think.

1. Will accomplish rewriting him from the original codes Pym possess. Well, you can´t compare a vibranium knife to metal-destabilizing ore can you? One Ultron, 1000 Ultrons, makes zero difference for me. You´re dealing with thousands of Spartans as well, all of them way faster than Ultron, superior speed, so they can reaction a lot faster than Ultron or any of your team members, except for Sentry (maybe).

2. So let them decide them, I have no issues with that, I´m pretty much confident of their capabilities.

3. Would accomplish the defeat of your MVP. Ultron can't teleport back from Otherspace. The only ones who can go there and come back is Majestic and Spartan due to the Void omni-teleporation powers. With that power, the most noteworthy and obvious of Void's abilities, he can to teleport virtually anywhere within a global radius. He can cross hemisphere's with little difficulty. Transport himself and others across thousands of miles with even artificial barriers such as force fields, doing little to stop his coming.

The fact you don´t have an answer for it doesn´t make it pointless. I´ve already presented many ways my team can be aware of your team beforehand. My team possess too much genius minds to make an "indiscriminate" use of vibranium to have their own tech compromised, come on..

Ultron isn´t dealing with old tricks. We are using new ones. He isn´t aware of the creation blades or it´s capabilities. Isn't aware of the Otherspace, in matter of fact, your entire team can be BFR there and won´t have ways to come back. For example, Noir, a weapons-dealer and genius computer hacker, who later became a member of the Wildcats, tried to betray them so he could take over the company. He failed and Spartan killed him by teleporting him to Otherspace. Despite having prior knowledge about that dimension, considering he discovered that the matter in Otherspace could be used to create batteries that would last forever, he couldn´t save himself where unprotected he died. You may argue he has no superhuman powers. Okay, other superhuman beings were banished to Otherspace as well. Namely Defile and Decadence, the first is a Daemonite high lord who specializes in the powers of corruption, and the second is a witch daemonite and the lover of Lord Defile. Both were banned there at World's End saga.

1) Far from being irrelevant when my team also possess ways to manipulate time in a cosmic level which transcends Kang's tech. So pointless is your attempt to insist in the same argument over and over again after being debunk several posts above.

2) He´s not controlling anything. Thanks to our team previous awareness (cosmic, magic, technologic and empathic) this tactic will fail. My team can not only avoid it, but also counter it. Since we have the likes of Ultimate Reed Richards, Hank Pym and Madison Jeffries on the team, we can just replicate the feat portrayed by Wraith who manage to coat up to 15,000 giant objects at once to protect them from being hacked by techno-organic beings like the Phalanx. Ultron was defeated through this way. Having prep geniuses, 7 days prep and 4 hours to implement it, using omni-teleportation and time travel to go anywhere back and forth, we can replicate it just fine.

3) My team is faster due to Majestic and all the Spartans, who can teleport your team by reacting faster than they do. So is most likely we BFR your team first, to a place they doesn't know or ever heard of. We have ways to come back from Limbo or Purgatory, Meggan already manage to come back from Hell so she can do it again without much problem. But your team can't exist in Otherspace.

You haven't shown me any reasons as to why the virus wouldn't turn him into a t/o zombie, like everyone else.

No sir, you presented zero reasons to prove your team won´t be speedblitzed by a Morals Off Majestros.

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I give you another reason why you can´t deal with him:

Yes, six times the speed of light, now imagine without morals.

#16 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf:

Majestic is going to make them squeal.

I agree with you :D

@killemall@omgomgwtfwtf

About ressurection, Majestic already manage to bring his son back to life with tech.

Scan below:

_

Guess who else can resurrect the dead? Meggan!

Meggan hold the fire -- basically the lifeforce – of a planet within her to bring her teammates back to life:

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One last thing, I believe I haven´t make a solid case for Meggan, so here it is.

Since I´ve already presented her powers and capabilities in the first page, I will move on to the next part.

First, since the battle is placed on Earth, specifically here:

.

That´s the perfect location for her.

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Being an empathic elemental she can connect to the earth and the four elements. Meggan can control nature with her elemental powers and being an empath, she has great control over this. The environment acts upon Meggan's emotions. If she is mad, volcanoes will erupt or a storm will come. She can stop a forest fire without even trying. She can split lakes in half with a wave of her hand. Meggan can also effect the magnetic fields around herself. She can also effect man-made things. Such as when she needed to get to a lower level in a building she talked to the atoms to make a hole and sealed it back up as if nothing ever happened. She can use her elemental powers to be focused into a energy blast.

So basically she controls the entire environment we find ourselves in. Using her powers she becomes one with the lifeforce of this environment, giving her an innate awareness of the surroundings, which means she can´t be caught by surprise here.

Has special perceptions that see the world as lifeforce/energy:

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She can create an tsunami upon your team, open craters below them to whelm your team, create tornados or hurricanes to create an chaotic scenario to dispurt and destabilize them.

Controling the 4 elements:

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Well, and it becomes uglier. A morals off Meggan, can pretty much use her shapeshifting abilities to copy Genis-Vell powers for example. She did it before fighting a cosmic being, where it was stated that while in the presence of magic, her powers grows their peak. This will happen here too.

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Another instance, here Meggan is shown being able to copy Juggernaut powers:

.

So she´s a match for anyone here.

She has also mimicked the powers of Dazzler, Rogue, Colossus, Longshot, Storm, Wolverine, Havok, Nightcrawler, and even Silver Surfer. Being an elemental shapeshifter, she can turn into the element as well, she has been shown to turn into sand and water.

She can copy powers really fast:

.

One question, how your team will deal with her Empathic powers?

Being an empath she can She can also influence others emotions.

Meggan was able to control hordes of demons in Hell:

.

Meggan began to emphatically connect with the demons around her and, using her anger, lead an uprising in Hell. Soon she had a small army of followers why named her "Gloriana" and was back to her elf-like form with a new costume. She decided to take this as her super hero name and continued to lead the Demons against Hell. Using her powers of empathy Gloriana showed the Demons hope and literally bringing a hope to hell the demons were able to fight on their own. Using her hope Meggan found a portal out of Hell..

So all living beins will be under her control, adding more number into our already built personal army of clones to fight against your army here. She can control pretty much your entire team except for Ultron.

Another thing, BFR doesn´t work against ther since she can use her power to open a portal, since she (Meggan) was able to find weak spots between dimensions, that´s how she got out of hell and came back to Earth (Hope in Hell). Meggan can also effect man-made things. Such as when she needed to get to a lower level in a building she talked to the atoms to make a hole and sealed it back up as if nothing ever happened.

.

Also she has proven to be immune to by the reality altering powers of Jaimie Braddock, so there's not much your team can do to defeat her, not when she is fighting without morals.

.

In top of all that, considering she can connect with the whole planet, she can use it to increase her powers to become stronger. She has even been able to beat Captain Britain very easily. When Galactus was taking the life force of Earth, Meggan got mad. She grew to Galactus size and the bigger she got the more the environment was being destroyed. So in the end your team would collapse before he magnitude, no matter who is the threat, she made Galactus back off.

One last example of her powers, she was able to deal with Rachel (Phoenix):

@omgomgwtfwtf: @boschepg: @higorm: I am very unconvinced with your counter Higor and here is why.

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1. Majestic Creation Blade can depower Ghost Rider

Prove it?

As simple as it goes.

You are claiming the creation blade is somehow going to affect a character that has never been affected by physical means whatsoever? I mean come on.

And the evidence you bring forward is him somehow affecting a reality warper, Ghost Rider has no connection to reality warping whatsoever so i am at a loss to what you are even trying to say.

Ghost Rider is agent of God bonded to Zarathos made of pure Hellfire

And is made up of pure Hell Fire there is no physical means to take him down.

So if you are going to somehow argue Creation Blade can depower Ghost Rider, i suggest you bring an instance where Creation Blade has affected someone even remotely similar to Ghost Rider.

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2. Insect Power WTF?

Its nice and all that you ignored what i told you earlier about bringing in an Army of Ghost Riders but lets remind you again.

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Then we have the insect powers, that was merely done to distract the crowd.

Then we have Ultron's telepathy, still not enough, well Sentry can crowd the entire area with Dark Hellfire

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And again for the last time, even if Majestic Speed is somehow going to help him escape , from an attack he has never faced, no one else on your team is anywhere that fast.

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3. Meggan and sense your team

That would require Meggan to be in the same vicinity as our team before the encounter which isnt the case.

And again , its a random encounter as far as character ability are concerned, you ignorning OP rules doesnt help your case.

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4. We can attack from different dimension

Good for you, as already brought forward Genis can see your entire teams, past and future the moment they enter the battle field. (Do i really need to bring foward the scan a 4th time now??)

And secondly he can simply ask Kang to teleport to your past and kill your team before they even enter the battle field.

And before you say , what if Kang gets KOed before, well he gets resurrected.

You team doesnt.

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5. Mr. Majestic is so much faster than everyone else.

While i do not disagree Mr. Majestic being faster he sure as hell isnt leagues and bounds faster than my team as you are trying to insinuate.

Sentry himself can travel light speed at will whenever he wants.

Direct quote from Matt Fraction

"He(Sentry) goes off (the battle field) at the speed of light"

Here is Death Seed Sentry blitzing the crap out of Thor, at significantly faster than the speed of light.

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Sentry and Genis could blitz pretty much everyone in your team just as well.

Difference is , you take Sentry out we can get him back, we take Constantine out, he stays out.

We take Reed out he stays out.

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6 How is Kang going to be able to stop time?

So Kang is struggling for time against Mr. Majestic, but Constantine has no problem sitting there drawing a circle before Ghost Rider can attack, or Genis can simply teleport him outside.

And how exactly is Mr. Majestic going to blitz? 1000s of Ultron Robot brought foward, 1000s of Ghost Rider brought foward (none of whom are vulnerable to physical means) Genis (who if taken out can be resurrected), Sentry (who himself can come back just fine, and can be replaced), Kang, Ultron everyone?

I mean come on.

And just for the heck of it, we can just as well let Genis call a whole army of various reality Genis's just fine, he has done that before.

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So your argument is Mr. Majestic is going to blitz 20 odds Genis Vell, all of whom can travel at light speed, Sentry (who himself can go faster than light when not holding back).

Really, Wally himself is going to struggle.

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7. Void can time travel

So what , so can Genis.. Also time travel and ability to stop time are 2 different things.

You know who else can time travel, those guys from Back to the Future, that has nothing to do with Kang actually outright freezing time.

If Void can do that, than i suggest you bring up an instance.

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Anything remaining to address apart from arguments like, you team has no constains with time evidently and can sit there and draw magic protection circle willy nilly, but our team would have time constrains using any attacks?

I mean come on.

This battle needs to be pinned as an example of how' to debate ( or a link in the forum rules)

Freakin awesome read ( I think I've changed my mind on who I'd vot for 11 times now , I'm confused)

@saren

@boschepg: @higorm: @omgomgwtfwtf: I see a lot of problem with that argument Higorm , here is why.

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1. Mr. Majestic can resurrect dead

The scan shows Mr. Majestic creating an artificial body so it can leave as his son, thats a whole lot different from resurrecting someone in a battle field.

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2. Meggan can resurrect the dead

Meggan, right on panel, saying she needs the power of Phoenix to do so?

"The World's fire rests within me, starchilde (Rachel). It needs but they celestial spark to set it alight. "

Again she re-iterates

"Without they help, this will remain barren rock, its people doomed to eventually extinction"

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3.0 Meggan can control Earth

Evidently so can Sentry.

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Then we can have Sentry tear her into nothing but atoms

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4.0 Meggan can copy people powers

There is a problem because you can copy Sentry power all you want, you will not only get the Sentry you will get the Void as well. Its not a good deal.

Super Adoptiod, whose soul purpose is to copy people power found out the hard way.

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And before you say it wont happen to Meggan something very similar did happen to Meggan during Captain Britian and MI 13 Annual # 1

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5.0 Lots of unsubstantiated and explained abilities.

There are a whole lot of stuffs you have said about Meggan and not substantiate it,

1. She can control demons with empathy, i dont seem to find a single instance of that.

2. Find cracks in reality? Where did she do that? The instance you are mentioning is from House of M, it was Captain Britian who found the source of power, and Meggan had to sarcifice herself to seal the bleed.

3. Meggan has fought cosmic beings, she didnt fight Galactus, hungry Galactus at that, i am also unsure to the whole Phoenix Rachel instance, would you be able to provide scan or at least the issue number?

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This is pretty damn awesome, much much better than any other CAV i have seen or any other tournaments i have seen, then again i am fairly new to comicvine and we did not have tournaments in KMC.

@omgomgwtfwtf tag me in once you are done i would love to vote.

@killemall

You seem to have serious overlooked my statements, but I will explain to you once more.

Creation Blades

1. The Creation blades aren't regular blades, they not only inflict damage but also depowers the enemy. So I wasn´t claiming physical damage would affected the Ghost Rider, but the speficic properties and capabilities of the blades.

Tao´s reality warping trascends magic. So he is above the pure concept of magic. If the blades can affect someone who can alter reality at will, why shouldn't affect the Ghost Rider as well, even temporarily, which counts as incapacitation.

Quick explanation about his powers:

2. I think Majestic and the Spartans using their speed and energy output can more than handle them. Majestic has been considered a full fledged warlord at least 5000 years ago, fighting war after war, conquering entire races one after the another. He is by far the most experienced character among the ones involved in this battle. He is too fast, too powerfull and too smart to see this as a significant threat. A morals off Majestros will speedblitzing and blasting them all with temperatures so high they will be turned into a pulp. Majestic already displayed enough energy output to burn through a giant planet's chemical strata and pressure zones through an ocean of liquid metallic hydrogen. He altered it´s chemical composition at a pre-atomic level. "No longer jupiter".

A combination of speedblitz, heat vision and Spartan's BFR to Otherspace and that´s it. Not to mention we have Constantine, who is pretty much a God with prep who can block any other attempt of magic or dark force related attacks against our team.

Your team lacks the speed advantage, not mines. No one can match Majestic in this battle.

3. She doesn´t need to be in the same vicinity, where did you get that from. Her powers allow her to control the entire environment, and track people by their aura, so she have more than one way to sense them. If there´s anything different happening to the location she will be aware of. Doesn´t matter if it´s a random encounter or not, Meggan never needed prep time to do such things, her powers that work like that, it´s innate to her being.

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Not to mention that Majestic himself possess hyper-senses. He manage to sense a tiny cosmic particle variance, which he was able to reac to in a nanosecond. Sensed invasors comming from other planets and dimensions. He can out interference, washing out patterns to allow him narrow the focus to a partcular region, etc. Sense civil hostilities happening in a planet while he was in the middle of the space.

This next scan proves how good his senses are:

He was able to sense Hadrian (Spartan) while he was using energy dampening pills. Those pills can take away his powers in case he needs to work stealthily in places where his power signature would give him away. Remember Spartan is a andriod.

4. Again you seem to be skipping my posts, otherwise he would have seen that I´ve already presented feats to prove both Meggan and Majestic can resurrect the dead, either by pure power or tech device.

How is that happening if my team possess precognition and clairvoyance at disposal?

5. So you are bringing Death Speed feats for Sentry huh? I thought you have said otherwise:

@sophia89: Nah nothing like he, is he by far the character i have read and know most about, we will get to him, perhaps not on this thread unless i really have to (coz you gotta have something new for the next thread, no?). Its not that i dont want to use him, or i was going to use him as a footsholdier, its just i havent had the need to use him just yet.

You will see some kick ass stuffs of Sentry further down the road, remember its not death seed Sentry here ,this is Sentry before Void left him.

WTF?

Yes, leagues ahead. Your feats are too weak to compare with him. Majestic while in a morals on state already manage to display a travel speed to avoid being hit by lasers fired six times the speed of light.

Also, who is Thor in comparison to Majestic? Come on..

6. Constantine can draw all the circle he wants while both teams are preping. We don´t direct contact to each other between that time. So why is your team reaching mine if the battle didn´t started yet? And when it´s starts my team will be already prepared for yours. Did you miss my explanation about Majestro's speed? Doesn´t matter how many Ultrons is out there, we have as much Spartans to deal with them. Majestros flying at speeds beyond the speed of light blasting everyone to a pulp. Imagine an army of Spartans striking your team with genetic concusion grenades that destabilizes your genetic structure, while teleports sending your team to Otherspace from you can´t come back. So bring it on!

7. Yes she can do that, just check the Wildcats issues #24-26 and also World's End #14.

Void powers allow to go to the past as well, we can do the exact same thing. The only difference is that the power comes from a cosmic being, while Kang uses tech.

I have much more from where this came from, we can keep going back and forth no problem..

@killemall

Resurrection

The concept of resurrection remains. He did it before. He can do it again. Clones of our original teammates based on their dna. 7 days of prep for someone as fast as him helped by the likes of Ultimate Reed Richards, Hank Pym and Madison Jeffries can to the job. Later they can all stay inside a unreachable dimension while the clones strike your team. By the time you realize who is striking who the battle will be already lost for your team. You don´t have access to Otherspace, that´s a fact.

Meggan needed help yes, but gues who is helping her here? Prep gods. I´ve already presented the scan where Meggan says her powers boost the it´s peak while in the presence of magic. Guess who possess magic? Guess who possess access to infinity energy source. She can more than replicate the feat just fine.

Earth Control

Sentry can´t control Earth to the same extent of Meggan. She is an elementhal empath, she can control the entire Earth, Sentry included, after all he is an living being.

Also, Majestic is faster than him and can react a lot faster to prevent him from reaching her. But I doubt he could resist being empathically cotrolled.

Power Mimicry

Meggan isn´t copying Sentry powers, she is controlling him, once again you misinterpret my words. I said she could copy Genis-Vell since she already did it before, she dealt with the power cosmic.

5. Are you kidding me? You´ve just posted the scans for me..

Yes she can and was able to control the demons in hell with her empathy, just check her bi page and you will find:

A Hope in Hell

Meggan was able to ask the Lords a question: Did she and all the other souls belong in there? In answer to this question Dormammu, one of the lords, tricked Meggan into emphatically connecting with Hell itself using her powers. This turned Meggan into a grotesque monster before Dormammu transported her to another part of Hell. Once here Meggan began to emphatically connect with the demons around her and, using her anger, lead an uprising in Hell. Soon she had a small army of followers why named her "Gloriana" and was back to her elf-like form with a new costume. She decided to take this as her super hero name and continued to lead the Demons against Hell. Using her powers of empathy Gloriana showed the Demons hope and literally bringing a hope to hell the demons were able to fight on their own.

Here the answer for the dimensional weak spots which you also can find in her bio here:

Meggan has fought cosmic beings, she didnt fight Galactus, hungry Galactus at that, i am also unsure to the whole Phoenix Rachel instance, would you be able to provide scan or at least the issue number?

Sure.

[Excalibur (1st series) #73-75]

If you are seriously going to argue using Clairvoyance and Precognition in a scenario where we have no knowledge of each other, then I'm simply going to say that Kang travels back in time and just kills your team, because his capacity for knowing is much larger than the Spartan's. Being able to see the future and sense it, pales to the fact that Kang can simply travel through the timestream and actually manipulate it. He has done so on numerous occasions, such as with the Apocalypse twins. Simply put it, if you are really going to use those tactics, then I guess I'm allowed the same leeway as well. It's only fair that way.

"To stop these vermin, alterations to history must be more severe. Rearranging events in a manner that suits my purpose, securing my future. I have reorganized the board in incalculable permutations. If time could be measured outside the stream, I would have aged hundreds of years...After thousands of permeations, thousands of jumps backwards and forwards - I have finally solved this conundrum. This age - this precise arrangement of the pieces will lead to a resolution much more to my liking."

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@boschepg

1) Your entire prep phase is illegitimate as far as I am concerned. First you claim that your team team has basic knowledge of us, despite the fact that the rules clearly stated that we have zero prior knowledge of each other. Now you're claiming that your team would somehow prep for everything and would miraculously have a contingency plan set up for our team. It's a total load of bullshit honestly.

2) There would be no reason for Pym to carry around the Ultron Code with him, because he's not facing Ultron. It's silly to believe so. I have already given you examples of people failing to counter Ultron, despite trying to counter him, so I fail to see why your team's coding (which is illegitimate) would even work.

3) You're really going to argue military industrial complex, when Kang the Conqueror has near infinite resources? Kang commands thousands, upon thousands of worlds. His empire consists of trillions of beings. Honestly, what your team can come up with is really little compared to what Kang can get in a single hour, let alone with a week.

Given that your partner insists that spying on the other team is legitimate during prep phases, Kang will just go back in time and mess with everything you guys ever invented. He's going to sabotage everything you guys are planning and you guys won't even know he's there.

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@higorm

Meggan is honestly a non-factor in this scenario. Kang would just teleport her to a mutant concentration camp and be done with her or simply place a mutant inhibitor collar on her and leave her powerless.

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Kang can summon tech instantly into his hands from his trans-temporal armory.

"Kang angrily crooks his fingers, activating sophisticated circuity in his gauntlets - sending out a call - and from his trans-temporal armory - the call is answered!"

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Also, I really fail to see why you keep mentioning superior speed, when I have already showed you that Kang can simply stop time, negating any benefits you get from speed. From there he could simply grab the Creation Blades from Majestic hands and stab him in the face with them.

What Kang can do with prep is practically limitless, because with prep, he has done things like forge weapons used to kill freaking Celestials.

@higorm

kang is not the only one here with access to the timestream, nor the only one with time manipulation.

Void powers comes with Time Travel. The very nature of the Void entity, does allow to make use of the time stream and travel back and forth along it. Either into the past or into potential future settings. It grants deep awareness of the nature of time and time travel.

So what does this prove? Immortus has time control power, so do the Time Trappers. Just because you have time manipulation powers, doesn't mean you automatically counters mine. Nothing you have posted suggest that Void is on the level of Kang when it comes to time manipulation.

Also, the fact that you're trying to tell me that Void is a reality warping/time manipulating person, pretty much tells me you're using a person who's over the limits.

So it doesn't matter how good he can manipulate it. First he won´t have time to do anything. Second, my team have ways to avoid or be immune to it. Either by cosmic powers, devices or magic.

Unless you have prior knowledge, you won't.

Also, the scans showing Majestic dealing with the time loop isn´t misrepresented. He was already packing the device when talking to the girl to the point the loop was in action. The moment he realized what was going on, he quickly got himself out of it. If he used the device before, he can use it now. He can build thinks from nothing faster than Kang can think.

Yes, he got himself out of it after a person told him via comm link that he was in a time loop. Also, the time loop was only affecting the girl, evident by the fact, she was the only one repeating herself. Now answer me this question, how does this mean squat? Kang wouldn't bother with a time loop. He would just flat out stop time or just BFR Majestic to the end of time (yes, Kang can travel to the end of time, he did so to kill the Time Trappers, because they were arrogant enough to call themselves the masters of time).

1. Will accomplish rewriting him from the original codes Pym possess. Well, you can´t compare a vibranium knife to metal-destabilizing ore can you? One Ultron, 1000 Ultrons, makes zero difference for me. You´re dealing with thousands of Spartans as well, all of them way faster than Ultron, superior speed, so they can reaction a lot faster than Ultron or any of your team members, except for Sentry (maybe).

2. So let them decide them, I have no issues with that, I´m pretty much confident of their capabilities.

3. Would accomplish the defeat of your MVP. Ultron can't teleport back from Otherspace. The only ones who can go there and come back is Majestic and Spartan due to the Void omni-teleporation powers. With that power, the most noteworthy and obvious of Void's abilities, he can to teleport virtually anywhere within a global radius. He can cross hemisphere's with little difficulty. Transport himself and others across thousands of miles with even artificial barriers such as force fields, doing little to stop his coming.

1. You don't have codes, because you don't have prior knowledge, unless you are actually suggesting that Spartan's clairvoyance and whatnot is actually a legitimate strategy, and not a violation of the rules. Also, like I mentioned prior, the anti-metal affects all metal indiscriminately, including your own.

2. Fine by me.

3. What you just described is exactly what Kang could do as well. So I fail to see what stops Kang from going into the Other space to get him, or simply replacing Ultron with another one from the timestream. Likewise, I could send your team to Purgatory or Limbo, where the concepts of time and space don't exist.

The fact you don´t have an answer for it doesn´t make it pointless. I´ve already presented many ways my team can be aware of your team beforehand. My team possess too much genius minds to make an "indiscriminate" use of vibranium to have their own tech compromised, come on..

Why don't you also admit to debating with illegal strategies, like prior knowledge without actually being allowed it. What is particularly sad is the fact you guys keep changing your strategies up from having basic knowledge, to now acquiring it through illegal means. I mean seriously. You guys can't debate without prior knowledge?

The fact still remains, you guys are changing your preps up because your guys original strategy was deemed illegal, because as thundergodswrath said, no knowledge = random encounter.

I'm not going to indulge this any longer. The voters can decide who to vote for.

Ultron isn´t dealing with old tricks. We are using new ones. He isn´t aware of the creation blades or it´s capabilities. Isn't aware of the Otherspace, in matter of fact, your entire team can be BFR there and won´t have ways to come back. For example, Noir, a weapons-dealer and genius computer hacker, who later became a member of the Wildcats, tried to betray them so he could take over the company. He failed and Spartan killed him by teleporting him to Otherspace. Despite having prior knowledge about that dimension, considering he discovered that the matter in Otherspace could be used to create batteries that would last forever, he couldn´t save himself where unprotected he died. You may argue he has no superhuman powers. Okay, other superhuman beings were banished to Otherspace as well. Namely Defile and Decadence, the first is a Daemonite high lord who specializes in the powers of corruption, and the second is a witch daemonite and the lover of Lord Defile. Both were banned there at World's End saga.

Your examples fail because none of those people had teleportation technology on the level of Kang.

1) Far from being irrelevant when my team also possess ways to manipulate time in a cosmic level which transcends Kang's tech. So pointless is your attempt to insist in the same argument over and over again after being debunk several posts above.

2) He´s not controlling anything. Thanks to our team previous awareness (cosmic, magic, technologic and empathic) this tactic will fail. My team can not only avoid it, but also counter it. Since we have the likes of Ultimate Reed Richards, Hank Pym and Madison Jeffries on the team, we can just replicate the feat portrayed by Wraith who manage to coat up to 15,000 giant objects at once to protect them from being hacked by techno-organic beings like the Phalanx. Ultron was defeated through this way. Having prep geniuses, 7 days prep and 4 hours to implement it, using omni-teleportation and time travel to go anywhere back and forth, we can replicate it just fine.

3) My team is faster due to Majestic and all the Spartans, who can teleport your team by reacting faster than they do. So is most likely we BFR your team first, to a place they doesn't know or ever heard of. We have ways to come back from Limbo or Purgatory, Meggan already manage to come back from Hell so she can do it again without much problem. But your team can't exist in Otherspace.

1) If you are really going to argue time manipulation on a 'cosmic' level, then you're practically shooting yourself in the foot. OP stipulates no over-powered weapons, and I'm pretty sure that manipulating time on a cosmic scale is pretty overpowered, don't you agree? If you really want to argue about overpowered weapons, Kang gets the Chrono-gun that can wipe out entire timelines and proceeds to just erase your team from existence. But, this debate is supposed to be "fair" isn't it?

2) Wraith actually failed to protect the Kree Sentries, hence how they were instantly taken over by Ultron...I even posted this scan as well. As for the rest of your post, I'm not going to repeat myself over. Thundergodswrath made it clear that you don't have prior knowledge, so I don't see why you are debating with prior knowledge.

Also, I find ironic that you mention omni-teleportation, when your own partner says this:

I tend to find that when you place the word like omni - in front of anything that it makes it over limits unless you are claiming hyperbole.

So you guys are practically shooting yourselves in the face, because your guys are basically admitting to breaking several rules in the debate.

3) I'm not going to indulge this point, because you have posted nothing to show that your team can equally stop time, like Kang can. Instead you give me baseless statements about the Void's powers and expect me to believe them. Even if they are true, it would automatically disqualify the usage of the Void, because, as you are keen on mentioning, the Void is 'omni-teleporting', 'reality warping/altering', and 'cosmic' powered individual. So you're basically stuck in a rock and a hard place, a catch-22 situation.

No sir, you presented zero reasons to prove your team won´t be speedblitzed by a Morals Off Majestros.

Until you show me the Void actually stopping time, then maybe I will respond to this. Until then, I won't. Like I mentioned earlier, baseless statements about the Void's powers is practically useless to me because I don't read Wildstorm. You have posted no scans of the Void manipulating time as easily as Kang can.

@omgomgwtfwtf

Wasn't you and your partner arguing Genis can see the future, as well as Kang?

Also, what would be the need of Clairvoyance and Precognition if I had knowledge of the enemy, of course I wouldn´t need it. The whole point of precog is to see the upcomming future, the unknown. You claim makes absolutely no sense. The fact the rules state we have no knowledge of each other doesn´t stop me from finding a way to get the necessary knowledge during the prep time.

Now you are repeating yourself over and over again. You really think that a team composed by 4 genius level intellect characters wouldn't think about the possibility of facing a time manipulator, or a cosmic being, or whatever? It was already estabilished, that we can run countless scenarios, just because we don´t know what is comming. That´s why we have 7 days to plan and 4 hours to make it happen.

I´ve already told my team have access to dimensions where your team can see them, but we can see you. Kang has also failed many times. The scan shows how things can turn out bad for him if he continues to jump across time. In another instance, if you take a look at Avengers vol. 4 #1-4 you will see that In the first arc of the fourth Avengers series, Kang wages a war with Ultron in the not-too-distant future which causes the disruption of all time. The cause of the disruption is apparently Kang's recruiting of army after army from the timelines to battle Ultron - all to no avail.

Non-factor? Really? She is one of the most powerfull mutants ever, how can she be a non-factor? You clearly don´t know what you are talking about..

Our team has teleportation as well. In matter of fact you haven't presented one single evidence to show how your team would deal with a BFR to Otherspace?

I´ve also presented many other instances where Kang was being pounded by Thor, taking hit after hit. Majestic can speedblitz him before he can even think about doing anything. Kang can stop time, but in order to do that he must act. That´s the whole point you insist to ignore. In the fields of reaction time, Majestic is leagues above him.

So now you want to talk about major prep feats? Really? Against the likes of Majestic, Constantine, Reed Richards and Hank Pym? You really want to go that way?

Just to name a few, first you have Majestic who is a 5000+ years Kherubim Warlord, who have access to technology so advanced that can make dreams and thoughts become reality.

As for Reed Richards, this is how much he can do without prep. The scans shows him fighting Diablo. A magic user he never met and knew nothing about, yet he still manage to make a plan to counter what he thought the enemy could use against him. With no prep he just tactically counters what he saw as the possible threats. Now imagine with 7 days worth of prep.

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Also, your team's attempt of BFR mine's is quite amusing. Reed has mapped almost the entire Marvel Multiverse:

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"I don´t need machinery to live". Unfortunately Kang can´t say the same can he?

Reed with prep could just force any of your team members to just stay in the line of fire of a Big Bang gun. How can he do it? He Pulls Star and other Energy Sources to where he wants them. Has he even did it against anyone worth mentioning? How about Silver Surfer?

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I don´t know if you notice buy Silver Surfer who was 2+ Light Years away was pulled in size to Earth from another Universe..

FINISHING!!

Reed has also displayed the use of a gear capable to scan and detect Magic:

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Ultimate Reed has also used magic before, and mastered most of Dr. Doom magic spells

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Hank Pym already manage to develop a Holographic Technology capable of fooling the Security of the Baxter Building and the sensors of Ultron. Not to mention his other achievements, for example:

• Declared Scientist Supreme by Eternity
• Used his Pym Particles to grow beyond reality and encounter Eternity
• Created Heaven. Yes, Heaven.
• Used the Infinite Avengers Mansion to maintain the molecular integrity of Jan after her death; enabling her to be brought back
• He's considered God of Artificial Intelligence. Ultron's design was so perfect that it was ultimately a flaw.
• Defeated Chthon
• Created the Infinite Avengers Mansion (the most impressive piece of teleportation/space bending technology created in the MU)
• Was the catalyst behind Loki's sacrifice in Siege
• Discovered Pym Particles
• Defeated a Cosmic Cube empowered Absorbing Man
• Defeated Reed Richards in single combat based solely on the use of scientific equipment
• Infiltrated the Baxter Building, outsmarting Richards' insanely state-of-the-art security system

Hank Pym also understands time mechanics:

.

Is that good enough for top feats? Want some more? Come at me bro!

@omgomgwtfwtf

Also, the fact that you're trying to tell me that Void is a reality warping/time manipulating person, pretty much tells me you're using a person who's over the limits.

Now you are starting to invent things I didn´t say. I never saide Void has anything to do with reality warping. So don´t come with that.

So I fail to see what stops Kang from going into the Other space to get him, or simply replacing Ultron with another one from the timestream

He can't go there, which part of no one survives inside the Otherspace unprotected you didn't understand? Only Majestic managed to accomplish that feat. Kang can´t randomly enter a dimensiona he isn´t aware of, he being able to manipulate time or not. If you are sending him there, you're going to lost him forever.

I´m not going to repeart myself, I´ve already presented many ways that my team possess to deal with your team, with prior knowledge or not. I will let to the voters decide this matter since you find yourself inside a time loop and can´t stop saying the same thing over and over again. There´s nothing illegal, It´s not my fault if you don't understand the basic concepts of precog and clairvoyance..

So you are shooting yourself in the foot as well. How is Genis operating in this scenario? Doesn't he uses cosmic powers? Come on! There is nothing over the limits. The only thing I said is that the origin of Void powers comes from a cosmic entity. I was merely describing it's origins. I can get Spartan to reach god-like state if I want right from the start, but that would be illegal, he merely using Void powers is more than within the rules. Omni-teleportation is just a name, that doesn´t indicates god-like powers.

Again, our time doesn't need to stop time. They can travel through time, dimensions, etc. My only claim is that my team can and have ways to avoid being trapped somehow by Kang using time manipulation. If he were facing someone completely not aware of time manipulation, than all your moves would work, but that´s not the case, he's not facing amateurs.

Also can you stop the distortion please? I never said anything related to reality warping from Void powers. I don´t need to go that way, try to disqualify something by creating another thing that doesn´t exist. If you don´t have ways to counter it just assume like a man. I won´t present feats showing anyone stopping time, that´s not or porpuse, but to get rid of it, avoid it, get pass, get through it with either powers, tech or anything else our team can use.

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@sophia89: shame on you! :P

This is by far the best debate I have seen on the vine in my whole time of being on the vine great job @boschepg@higorm@killemall@omgomgwtfwtf

@higorm:

Wasn't you and your partner arguing Genis can see the future, as well as Kang?

We are arguing those usages because you insist on arguing that you're allowed to do so. If you are allowed to do so, then so are we. My point is, as it always has been, is that you guys are not following the rules of the debate.

First, was one you guys claimed to be able to prep counters against us. When I asked you how that was possible, your partner exclaimed that no knowledge does not imply having no basic information.

Secondly, when Thundergodswrath told you guys that no knowledge=random encounter, you guys changed your stance from having basic knowledge to now acquiring it.

Thirdly, you guys are now changing up your prep to acquire things that you guys never listed before. The whole reason for listing prep is to showcase what you are using specifically for that debate. There would be no point in listing prep, if we were allowed to simply change our prep around whenever something doesn't happen our way.

Me and Killemall's prep has remained the same, while you guys have shifted your prep several times to cover up issues that were resolved already.

Also, what would be the need of Clairvoyance and Precognition if I had knowledge of the enemy, of course I wouldn´t need it. The whole point of precog is to see the upcomming future, the unknown. You claim makes absolutely no sense. The fact the rules state we have no knowledge of each other doesn´t stop me from finding a way to get the necessary knowledge during the prep time.

Like I told you before, ask Thundergodswrath what is allowed and what is not. I told the same thing to boschepg and the issue with no knowledge=random encounter was resolved. I'm not going to argue with you over this point. You are just trying to circumvent the rules for your own gain.

Now you are repeating yourself over and over again. You really think that a team composed by 4 genius level intellect characters wouldn't think about the possibility of facing a time manipulator, or a cosmic being, or whatever? It was already estabilished, that we can run countless scenarios, just because we don´t know what is comming. That´s why we have 7 days to plan and 4 hours to make it happen.

You don't have prior knowledge dude. I'm repeating myself because you don't listen. Honestly, this issue could have been solved since page 1 if you asked thundergodswrath, instead you insist on arguing with me. It seems, rather, you are afraid to ask him yourself, for fear that he would agree with me, and render your entire plan obsolete, like when boschpg insisted on arguing that your team had basic knowledge, despite the OP listing 'no knowledge'.

I´ve already told my team have access to dimensions where your team can see them, but we can see you. Kang has also failed many times. The scan shows how things can turn out bad for him if he continues to jump across time. In another instance, if you take a look at Avengers vol. 4 #1-4 you will see that In the first arc of the fourth Avengers series, Kang wages a war with Ultron in the not-too-distant future which causes the disruption of all time. The cause of the disruption is apparently Kang's recruiting of army after army from the timelines to battle Ultron - all to no avail.

Yes, it happened in the Ultron Wars. I posted scans of that incident myself on the very first page. Hell, I was talking about it as well. What you fail to realize is that Kang, himself, was the one who traveled back in time to recruit the Avengers to fix the issue in the first place, in order to correct the mistake that he made. If you read the whole thing, they were two Kangs present in the Avengers issues. The one that was fighting Ultron and the one who was helping the future Avengers fix the problem that he caused himself.

The one that destroyed Ultron was completely unaware of what his alternate counterpart was doing, evident by the fact that he was completely baffled as to why Ultron was defeated so easily.

The second Kang, calling himself Immortus, killed the future versions of Hulk and Iron Man, but was eventually killed by the Avenger's future children. This Kang's death had no effect on the other Kang, given that he later appears in numerous other comics.

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I also don't know why you bother to bring up the Council of Kang, given that they are all dead, and Kang himself knows that jumping around creates divergent realities. Kang's tech allows to travel through time without creating these divergent realities, specifically the Forever Crystal located in the his base of Chronopolis. The reason why he doesn't do that is because, in character, he doesn't mind the divergent realities he creates, because it provides places for him to conquer.

I believe I explained this all already in my previous posts, please look at them, because I'm not repeating myself again. In character, Kang would not manipulate the timestream as I suggest, but given that the battle stipulates morals off, his ethics wouldn't matter to begin with.

Also, I would like to mention that current Kang has the collective intelligence of all his other counterparts, given when they died, it all went to him. He specifically created the Council of Kangs to kill all his alternate versions.

His entire history is explored in Avengers Forever 009, the issue is dedicated to his backstory.

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Non-factor? Really? She is one of the most powerfull mutants ever, how can she be a non-factor? You clearly don´t know what you are talking about..

She's a non-factor because her powers can be inhibited and she could be sent to a timeline where mutants are hunted and killed. I given you an example of where Kang sends the Apocalypse twins to live in the Red Skull's concentration camps, where there are inhibitors in place to suppress mutant powers.

Our team has teleportation as well. In matter of fact you haven't presented one single evidence to show how your team would deal with a BFR to Otherspace?

Because Kang has shown the capacity to travel to dimensions, where time and space are non-existent? I mean unless you provide me a reason why the Otherspace wouldn't be treated the same as any other dimension Kang has traveled to, it's pretty much just another place for him to come and go.

Kang has also plucked a past version of Annihilus from the Negative Zone as well with ease. Nothing you have posted about the Otherspace leads me to believe that Kang wouldn't be able to leave.

I´ve also presented many other instances where Kang was being pounded by Thor, taking hit after hit. Majestic can speedblitz him before he can even think about doing anything. Kang can stop time, but in order to do that he must act. That´s the whole point you insist to ignore. In the fields of reaction time, Majestic is leagues above him.

You're telling me that Kang can't already have a time freeze field up before the battle begins? (He has no morals in this battle, so would not resort to such tactics, something that he would no do with morals on) Also, Kang has forcefields and what not as well. In the very first appearance of Kang in the Avengers, he sends Mjolnir to a different dimension altogether, just as it is hurling right into his face.

So now you want to talk about major prep feats? Really? Against the likes of Majestic, Constantine, Reed Richards and Hank Pym? You really want to go that way?

Just to name a few, first you have Majestic who is a 5000+ years Kherubim Warlord, who have access to technology so advanced that can make dreams and thoughts become reality.

As for Reed Richards, this is how much he can do without prep. The scans shows him fighting Diablo. A magic user he never met and knew nothing about, yet he still manage to make a plan to counter what he thought the enemy could use against him. With no prep he just tactically counters what he saw as the possible threats. Now imagine with 7 days worth of prep.

No, what I want you to explain is how your team is going to miraculously create counters for people they have no knowledge off. You keep feeding me these irrelevant scans, where they are prepping for opponents they clearly have intimate knowledge of.

As for your scans of Reed Richards beating Diablo, please explain to me how he defeated Diablo. The last scan talks about an elixir and it's relevance is lost to me, since I have no context.

Also, your team's attempt of BFR mine's is quite amusing. Reed has mapped almost the entire Marvel Multiverse:

I don't see how having a map of anything, prevents you from being stranded somewhere. Kang has access to places where the concepts of time and space don't exist, and such it cannot be accessed by other people. Places like Limbo and Purgatory can only be entered via Kang's tech, evident by the fact that he loan the Avengers his time sphinx in order to get there.

"I don´t need machinery to live". Unfortunately Kang can´t say the same can he?

What is the point of this scan? I don't even know who is talking in the scan or the context behind it. Feeding me one page scans and expecting me to follow you when I don't read the Ultimate comics is pretty dumb.

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I don´t know if you notice buy Silver Surfer who was 2+ Light Years away was pulled in size to Earth from another Universe..

What exactly is the point of these scans? Reed Richard was able to accomplish the feat with Silver Surfer with a giant piece of equipment from his lab. Kang can teleport people with a press of a button... I fail to see the similarities. One involves huge pieces of tech, while the other is so menial, that it can be accomplished with a press of a button.

And to add insult to injury, Kang has tech that actually hurt the Silver Surfer.

Also, what is the point of mentioning the Big Bang Gun? That sort of tech is now allowed in this tournament, I'm pretty sure that was already discussed on page 1. So please look that over.

Reed has also displayed the use of a gear capable to scan and detect Magic:

Gallery

Ultimate Reed has also used magic before, and mastered most of Dr. Doom magic spells

Gallery

Once again I'm not entirely sure what the point of those scans are. The first one involves Victor, not Reed.

As for the second one, it just looks like he's depowering Ultimate-verse Odin, which is impressive, but once again I don't see anything magical about it.

Ultimate Odin is also weaker than 616 Odin, so the impressiveness of that scan is a bit diminished.

Hank Pym already manage to develop a Holographic Technology capable of fooling the Security of the Baxter Building and the sensors of Ultron. Not to mention his other achievements, for example:

• Declared Scientist Supreme by Eternity

• Used his Pym Particles to grow beyond reality and encounter Eternity

• Created Heaven. Yes, Heaven.

• Used the Infinite Avengers Mansion to maintain the molecular integrity of Jan after her death; enabling her to be brought back

• He's considered God of Artificial Intelligence. Ultron's design was so perfect that it was ultimately a flaw.

• Defeated Chthon

• Created the Infinite Avengers Mansion (the most impressive piece of teleportation/space bending technology created in the MU)

• Was the catalyst behind Loki's sacrifice in Siege

• Discovered Pym Particles

• Defeated a Cosmic Cube empowered Absorbing Man

• Defeated Reed Richards in single combat based solely on the use of scientific equipment

• Infiltrated the Baxter Building, outsmarting Richards' insanely state-of-the-art security system

I don't really see the significance of any of these in regards to this battle.

• Being given a title doesn't mean much, when there are several people smarter than him.
• Irrelevant in this battle, unless you want him to grow to the point where he will BFR himself.
• He did not create heaven.
• Janet Van Dyme was never dead. She was actually stuck in the micro-verse.
• God in the semantic sense, not God in the all-powerful sense.
• Not impressive, given that Chthon's powers are severely limited on Earth, to the point where Spider-Woman defeated him with no prep. Also, he defeated him through his vessel, not by overpowering Chthon himself.
• That is not the most impressive piece of teleportation/space tech in the Marvel Universe. Stop lying kid. Seriously, Kang's chronopolis is connected to every reality in the timeline, that alone is more impressive to the Infinity Avengers Mansion. Your opinions are not fact, sorry to say.
• Irrelevant.
• Irrelevant.
• Context.
• Reed Richards is known for not being very tactical. Stark is able to beat him too. Doesn't mean he's smarter than Reed, given intelligence is variable.
• Nathaniel Richards, Doctor Doom, Future Franklin, Kang, etc. all have done the same too. So I fail to see how that is impressive.

Hank Pym also understands time mechanics:

So does Reed, Doom, Immortus, and the Time Keepers. The people I mentioned actually have more knowledge of time than Hank does. What do they all have in common? Well, Kang beaten all of them and killed half of the people I mentioned, namely the Time Keepers and Reed.

Gallery

Gallery

Is that good enough for top feats? Want some more? Come at me bro!

This is not a respect thread, so I fail to see what you are blowing up this thread with useless feats. It seems you are trying to evade my questions, rather than answer them. And I'm assuming all these scans are just you trying to mask that fact.

@higorm:

Now you are starting to invent things I didn´t say. I never saide Void has anything to do with reality warping. So don´t come with that.

As said by you:

Spartan's void powers comes from the Orb of Power, which consists in reality creating/warping energies that made the universe, so they stand beyond science and magic.

So unless you're contradicting yourself, I think you might want to rethink your answer.

He can't go there, which part of no one survives inside the Otherspace unprotected you didn't understand? Only Majestic managed to accomplish that feat. Kang can´t randomly enter a dimensiona he isn´t aware of, he being able to manipulate time or not. If you are sending him there, you're going to lost him forever.

Kang's suit protects him from the effects of the environment...He isn't going to die. Then from there it's a matter of him opening a portal back to where he needs to go.

I´m not going to repeart myself, I´ve already presented many ways that my team possess to deal with your team, with prior knowledge or not. I will let to the voters decide this matter since you find yourself inside a time loop and can´t stop saying the same thing over and over again. There´s nothing illegal, It´s not my fault if you don't understand the basic concepts of precog and clairvoyance..

No, what's particularly said, is how you guys keep changing your prep around.

So you are shooting yourself in the foot as well. How is Genis operating in this scenario? Doesn't he uses cosmic powers? Come on! There is nothing over the limits. The only thing I said is that the origin of Void powers comes from a cosmic entity. I was merely describing it's origins. I can get Spartan to reach god-like state if I want right from the start, but that would be illegal, he merely using Void powers is more than within the rules. Omni-teleportation is just a name, that doesn´t indicates god-like powers.

I have no knowledge of Genis-Vell outside what he did in Avengers, and he was basically just another herald level character. You're the one saying that Spartan's Void powers given him limitless time powers, reality altering abilities, and omni-teleporation. Like you said, I guess voters just have to decide on who to believe.

Again, our time doesn't need to stop time. They can travel through time, dimensions, etc. My only claim is that my team can and have ways to avoid being trapped somehow by Kang using time manipulation. If he were facing someone completely not aware of time manipulation, than all your moves would work, but that´s not the case, he's not facing amateurs.

Unless you have prior knowledge that time is being manipulated, then you wouldn't be able to counter it. It's simple as that. You keep talking about precognition and clairvoyance usage in prep, which directly go against the rule of no knowledge. Genis' usage of clairvoyance and cosmic awareness is only being accessed during battle, not during prep phases. If such claims are allowed in your mind, then I can simply have Kang travel back to your character's birth and have him commit infanticide.

Also can you stop the distortion please? I never said anything related to reality warping from Void powers. I don´t need to go that way, try to disqualify something by creating another thing that doesn´t exist. If you don´t have ways to counter it just assume like a man. I won´t present feats showing anyone stopping time, that´s not or porpuse, but to get rid of it, avoid it, get pass, get through it with either powers, tech or anything else our team can use.

Are you really using ad hominen attacks at me? I call it how I see it. It looks like you guys are trying to circumvent the rules, so I'm calling you guys out on it. Also, I'm not entirely sure what was the point the scans you just posted. I have no knowledge of what those scans are supposed to represent. To me, it just looks like a lot of people blasting each other.

@boschepg: @higorm: @omgomgwtfwtfAlright few replies here

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1. Creation blade affected a reality warper so it can de-power ghost Rider.

Not only is this an incredible leap of faith there is no relation to Ghost Rider.

Serious your argument why it should affect Ghost Rider is because Tao was awesome and it affected him why not Ghost Rider.

Its simply, Ghost Rider is pure hellfire, an agent of god bonded to power of a demon, he has nothing in common with reality warper.

There are plenty of reality warpers like Mad James Jasper, Franklin Richard, Jamie Braddock and Proteus etc, some affected my metal, some affect by un-space, some affected by telepathy and some affected by pure physical force, nothing of that even remotely translates to any of them being able to why any of that should somehow affect Ghost Rider.

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2.Here is a quick explanation of VOID and Creation Blade's power from wiki

Yeah good that you posted wiki, i dont see how that has any remote relevance here. Seriously we are using wiki to defend our point now. What next ?? Are we now going to say so and so debater 10 years ago said this so this is true (evidently thats something your partner is doing).

I mean come up, either post a valid evidence, or dont. Dont expect us to just go uh wiki says it, must be true.

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3. Meggan doesnt need to be in the same vicinity to know about a character

Well simple task then prove it, instead of copy pasting wiki. One simple instance of Meggan being able to know about a character not present in her vicinity would work fine i would issue.

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4. Meggan and Majestic can resurrect the dead

Being able to clone a character using an artificial body or being able to resurrect people using Phoenix Force something entirely unapplicable to you in the current encounter doesnt count in the least.

But on come on Majestic can create clones when he is prepping, oh well then, that allows Carian to pull infinite amount of alternate reality version of ourselves.

"I can see an endless array of possible futureS"

Then let Kang go recruit endless army.

In an arms race, i am guessing we can collect more armies than you can clone.

But either strategy is pretty ridiculous to implement.

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5. Why are you using feats from Death Seed Sentry

Because i have Carina Walters, i can flip between the version and i can just as easily get Carina to see that particular alternate reality and recruit both version of the character, in the fight at the same time.

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6. Who is Thor in comparison to Mr. Majestic

In reaction speed nobody, in travel speed everybody. And recall it clearly says the velocity Sentry was attending was clearly disorienting Thor.

Thor can transverse incredible faster, faster than speed of light just fine.

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7. Sentry cant control Earth to the same extent as Meggan and would go down to empathy

Simple though:

1. Sentry gets somehow emphatically controlled , he gets replaced by another version thanks to Carina Walters.

2. Meggan gets killed by Molecule Manipulation Meggan you know stays dead.

Gallery

Never said Sentry ability to control elements anywhere close to Meggan doesnt have to be really, she gets a one up Sentry gets replaced, Sentry gets a one up Meggan stays dead.

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8. Meggan would control Sentry and copy Genis's power

Given that she doesnt know who she is fighting and what different is power is, its nice and all to say that on paper but in actual combat how is she going to know whose powers to copy and whom to control.

And regardless of whose power she copies, she gets torn into molecules by Sentry or get her soul burnt to crisp by Ghost Rider.

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9. See this is what WIKI says about Hope in Hell story , that she control entire hordes of demons

Not even remotely interested. As wiki its not a valid evidence.

And just to point out no she didnt control the demons, she actually formed an army by showing demons what she felt and demons decided to follow her.

Here by her own admission

"I COULDN'T CONTROL the demons's minds or anyone else's -- all i could do was make them feel what i felt. In this case anger. Always anger. "

so you can make Sentry feel angry all you want, same with Ghost Rider and all my team, thats not going to change anything nor is it anywhere close to saying she can control my team.

Controlling someone =/= making them angry.

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10. Meggan fought Rachel as Phoenix in Excalibur vol 1 # 73 - 75 - inset scan

this is another instance where you have just read a wiki and put an out of context panel to support your claim when nothing of that sort had happen. Here is the full scan of the small crop you posted saying Meggan fought Rachel as Phoenix.

So i am at a loss to where, and how this is supposed to prove anything here?

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11. Our team and magic and prep gods, so Meggan wouldnt need Phoenix power to resurrect the dead

Prove it.

Show us one instance where Magic, or prep has helped Meggan resurrect someone without needing the help from Phoenix, you know the fire of creation itself. Its not like Phoenix force hasnt re-surrected people willy nilly without needing Meggan's abilities.

Phoenix resurrecting Jean Grey in X-men Phoenix Endsong # 1

Gallery

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12. Constantine can prep and draw Magic circle before entering the fight while Kang cant stop time because he is too slow compared to Majestic

Commendable effort but you are expecting one team to be able to know about our attack, then draw a circle (that would bound constantine within the circle, meaning he can step out there) but Kang evidently cant stop time because the difference between Kang vs Majestic and difference between Sentry vs Constantine not being any different?

Looks like a very bias interpretation of event, specially given Genis can show Kang the future before it actually plays out in the field, in great detail as he did against Punisher.

Gallery

So yeah i'll later voters decide what part of that is even resonable.

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13. Wasnt your partner arguing Genis can see the future as well as Kang (actually i said Carina Walters)

Yes after you brought up stuffs like Constaine can somehow pre-prepare himself against stuffs like Soul burning without even knowing who he is facing and you guys bring up Ultron kill code and affect an alternate reality Ultron without knowing either of them.

My orginal argument was, once you get in the battle, Genis can see future as it unfolds, and warn my team-mates via telepathy. Pre-cognition as well as telepath helps that way.

But if you are going to say we can prepare our team is somehow mysteriously know your opponents , every move, every startegy, then yeah such avenues are open for us as well.

We can have Genis see everyone;s past and set a Ultron in each respective time period waiting for the battle to start so they can kill your younger self or your parents.

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14. Meggan is one of the most powerful mutant why is she a non factor

Simple she has no counter to having her molecule dispersed, her brain synopsis being messed up and having her convinced she is dead, having her soul burnt, or like OMG mentioned, if specific knowledge and counter is available, Kang can bring a mutant power suppressing collar from the future to depower her.

Just because your team want to drag the notion of oh we have 4 prep genuis we are going to think everything, including not just deciding we are going to face a robot, but oh we are going to face ultron in particular to have kill code read (still failing to present a counter to how you stop Ultron from simply being replaced) or oh Ghost Rider has soul manipulation power so i will sit inside a magic circle (and Genis wont simply be able to teleport me out because i am a badass prep god?).

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None of your strategy would amount for jack if we take away the assumption that you know any of our team mates, let alone intimately enough to know what version and exactly what abilities they have. This is a random encounter despite the luxury of 7 days prep and even then you have no way to keep Sentry dead.

As you can BFR our team, where is the proof that they cant simply teleport back, apart from what you say it is. I would advise you to actually substantiate whatever universe you are talking about is indeed teleportation proof.

@omgomgwtfwtf

As said by you:

Spartan's void powers comes from the Orb of Power, which consists in reality creating/warping energies that made the universe, so they stand beyond science and magic.

So unless you're contradicting yourself, I think you might want to rethink your answer.

That´s the explanation about the entity, not Void. I said Void or Orb of Power? OK then.. one thing is origin, the other is the actual use of powers, which I never said Spartan would use said powers to reality warp. I'm not contradicting myself, you are the one trying to distort the whole thing since you run out of ammo.

This is not a respect thread, so I fail to see what you are blowing up this thread with useless feats. It seems you are trying to evade my questions, rather than answer them. And I'm assuming all these scans are just you trying to mask that fact.

You started the whole thing man, don´t start something that you can't handle then. If there´s anyone masking anything here is your team. You insist on the same points and give no real answers to solve the problem. I left question for your team and I´m still waiting. All you got for me is false accusations that are really starting to annoy me.

@omgomgwtfwtf said:

What Kang can do with prep is practically limitless, because with prep, he has done things like forge weapons used to kill freaking Celestials

I was only addressing the prep feats my team members were able to accomplish which far exceed yours, just to show how pitty was your attempt to come out on top.

First, was one you guys claimed to be able to prep counters against us. When I asked you how that was possible, your partner exclaimed that no knowledge does not imply having no basic information.

We presented many different ways to accomplish it. I´ve just presented I can where Reed runs simulations to be prepared face an unknown enemy and succeeds against him. The same will be done here. If he was able to do it in the past without prep, he can do it again with prep.

You fail to understand that no previous knowledge on the enemy doesn´t means we can´t acquire during prep time. We start with zero knowledge, but we don´t need to stay that way during the entire prep time to the whole fight. It burns my eyes to see that you not only understand a clear point but also accuses me of breaking the rules. I don´t need to resort on such thing. My past actions speaks for me. I´ve been joining tourneys for the fun of it, I would never deliberated break a rule like that, so I´m not going to play your dirty game anymore, sorry.

I don´t need to ask anyone about the rules, I know the rules. Also, @thundergodswrath already stated about it:

#106 Edited by ThunderGodsWrath (9240 posts) - 16 hours, 14 minutes ago - Show Bio

See? Happy now? He can run countless scenarios and be prepared for everything, we have the prep geniuses to rely on, they are god with prep, we also have speed advantage so we can prep faster than your team could ever imagined. So accept that and move on dude, seriously, it´s getting embarrassing..

She's a non-factor because her powers can be inhibited and she could be sent to a timeline where mutants are hunted and killed. I given you an example of where Kang sends the Apocalypse twins to live in the Red Skull's concentration camps, where there are inhibitors in place to suppress mutant powers.

Your lack of knowledge amuses me. Meggan already manage to stand as a threat to the likes of Galactus, Phoenix, and others. Also, her powers would work against your team, who seems to be no counter for it since my question remains not answered.

Because Kang has shown the capacity to travel to dimensions, where time and space are non-existent? I mean unless you provide me a reason why the Otherspace wouldn't be treated the same as any other dimension Kang has traveled to, it's pretty much just another place for him to come and go.

Because it isn´t just another dimension. Can't you get that? Don´t pretend he can do anything he wants because he can't! He knows nothing about Otherspace and especially how do deal with it, once there, there is no escape. How can you say it´s pretty much just another place for him if you have already stated you know nothing about WildStorm universe? Please you are better than that.

Let the thread end first because that would be seen as me getting outside help, but i would appreciate immensely if you could post scans once the debate here is over and voting begins.

@killemall:

2.Here is a quick explanation of VOID and Creation Blade's power from wiki

Yeah good that you posted wiki, i dont see how that has any remote relevance here. Seriously we are using wiki to defend our point now. What next ?? Are we now going to say so and so debater 10 years ago said this so this is true (evidently thats something your partner is doing).

I mean come up, either post a valid evidence, or dont. Dont expect us to just go uh wiki says it, must be true.

Info that I take from here and that you can confirm here if you want...

Can you show me where is stated I´m bringing info from wiki links?

The parts you listed I´ve brought the exact same text that is written on the character bio page here, in this site, comiv cine. Still not remotely interested? What are you doing here then? So instead of actually read my claims you just skip the whole thing and start with false accusations. It's all there, go check it man. You should do it before accusing someone. I thought you were better than that. I don´t have time to counter all that new posting, so I´m leaving now. Too bad it turns out like this..

My question remains:

How your team will deal with her Empathic powers?

How your team will deal with Mr. Majestic superior speed?

How is your team dealing with the Otherspace, from where they can´t come back?

The otherspace info you can find here at comic vine as well, or you can ask @buckshot about it. That´s from I got the information, from the bio page, the same way I did with Meggan. Not "WIKI" as you ignorantly claim.

Unless you are telling me you don´t trust the content of comic vine bio pages, is that the case?

@higorm:

That´s the explanation about the entity, not Void. I said Void or Orb of Power? OK then.. one thing is origin, the other is the actual use of powers, which I never said Spartan would use said powers to reality warp. I'm not contradicting myself, you are the one trying to distort the whole thing since you run out of ammo.

How am I distorting facts that I have no knowledge of? I can only call upon the information you give me. You fail to differentiate the difference between Orb of Power and Void, given that you were speaking about both as one thing. I don't read Wildstorm, so I don't know anything about it, yet you are so keen to keep bringing up the fact that your Spartans draw power from a reality warping energy. If the entire point is moot, then you should have never mentioned it in the first place.

You started the whole thing man, don´t start something that you can't handle then. If there´s anyone masking anything here is your team. You insist on the same points and give no real answers to solve the problem. I left question for your team and I´m still waiting. All you got for me is false accusations that are really starting to annoy me.

Me and Killemall have addressed every single one of your points. Instead of simply answering my questions, you, instead, blow up the thread with useless feats about Pym. With the majority of them being useless in this particular scenario. You keep changing your prep scenario around to fit whatever you want, when the propensity of the characters doing what you ask is completely unlikely.

I was only addressing the prep feats my team members were able to accomplish which far exceed yours, just to show how pitty was your attempt to come out on top.

Yes, because the majority of their prep feats are actually useful in a battle scenario lawl.

We presented many different ways to accomplish it. I´ve just presented I can where Reed runs simulations to be prepared face an unknown enemy and succeeds against him. The same will be done here. If he was able to do it in the past without prep, he can do it again with prep.

Reed ran simulations on Dr. Doom, a foe he knows quite intimately. Nowhere was it him planning for a random situation, that he had no knowledge of occurring. Do you understand my point? You're literally telling me that your team would have contingencies set up for an infinite amount of scenarios in seven days. It's absurd beyond reasoning honestly.

You fail to understand that no previous knowledge on the enemy doesn´t means we can´t acquire during prep time. We start with zero knowledge, but we don´t need to stay that way during the entire prep time to the whole fight. It burns my eyes to see that you not only understand a clear point but also accuses me of breaking the rules. I don´t need to resort on such thing. My past actions speaks for me. I´ve been joining tourneys for the fun of it, I would never deliberated break a rule like that, so I´m not going to play your dirty game anymore, sorry.

Prep entails that our teams work separately to create items and whatnot, not for you to do things to circumvent the rules to allow for knowledge gain. Simply just ask thundergodswrath if it is allowed, since you are the one trying to use such tactics. I have asked you to do this before, and you still haven't. When someone is unwillingly to ask a tournament creator to clarify the rules for their own argument, then it leads me to believe that they are purposely evading such actions.

And like I said before, if such rules are allowed, Genis and Carina would use their own cosmic awareness and clairvoyance to tell Kang everything he needs to know, then Kang goes back in time and kills your team when they are children. Or Kang could simply go get every person who hates your characters and recruit them to murder them. For example, get every evil alternate version of Doctor Doom and say, "I'm going to give you a chance to murder Richards", to which they all agree and I have 100 other geniuses on my side.

I don´t need to ask anyone about the rules, I know the rules. Also, @thundergodswrath already stated about it:

I know what he stated, and nowhere did he state that you could use outside methods to gain info. Boschepg asked him, if they could prep for any scenario, to which he replied they could. What you are arguing for is a method that was never discussed with thundergodswrath.

See? Happy now? He can run countless scenarios and be prepared for everything, we have the prep geniuses to rely on, they are god with prep, we also have speed advantage so we can prep faster than your team could ever imagined. So accept that and move on dude, seriously, it´s getting embarrassing..

Yes, because you guys can clearly run scenarios for an infinite number of circumstances and equally prep for those infinite scenarios. Especially when you have only 4 hours to actually implement those strategies. Sounds totally reasonable and not absurd.

Your lack of knowledge amuses me. Meggan already manage to stand as a threat to the likes of Galactus, Phoenix, and others. Also, her powers would work against your team, who seems to be no counter for it since my question remains not answered.

If you are truly trying to insinuate that Meggan is a threat to cosmic entities like Galactus and Phoenix, you might as well tell thundergodswrath that he should disqualify you.

Because it isn´t just another dimension. Can't you get that? Don´t pretend he can do anything he wants because he can't! He knows nothing about Otherspace and especially how do deal with it, once there, there is no escape. How can you say it´s pretty much just another place for him if you have already stated you know nothing about WildStorm universe? Please you are better than that.

Why does he need to know about the Wildstorm universe to escape a dimension? He's a time traveler and dimensional traveler. Unless Otherspace has some kind of property that prevents teleportation, I really don't see what your point. Limbo and Purgatory are places with no concept of space and time, and thus, teleportation using those methods would be useless. Kang can enter such places and is the only one capable of doing so. Which leads anyone with simple deduction skills, that Kang can go places without time and space.

You do realise comicvine bio page, or whatever you call is a wiki

If you were in doubt, at the top right of the page has a botton which say "Edit this WIKI page" ??

I mean come on..

Sorry you feel that way but i can comment anything here, when there are 2 different instance you copied from wiki , one of whom was backed by a panel, both of whom were out of context, as clearly demonstrated to you.

Regardless of your dislike, wiki, even from comicvine is not an official source its a place were people go edit stuffs. Thats the very definition of wiki.

Me asking for official confirmation, after showing how few stuffs you took from wiki were incorrect is seen as something evil and unwarranted than i dont know what to say specially when i have openly admitted as long as you give me a issue number i am ok, because most of marvel issue i can go check i have most of them with me anyways, like i did for your excalibur and a new hope.

And sure take a breather, i am going to do the same, because at the moment i am getting 2 replies before i finish posting once, i rather wait for you guys to reply nice, so i can read the whole debate and then add stuffs.

Thanks appreciate it . :)

Wow from a debate thread this is turning into a war.

Because comicvine page isnt wiki?

Seriously, where you under the assumption that some official, like say Jonthan Hickman or Axel Alonso comes around to change the context of the bio page.

They are all wiki. and nothing there is a false accusation.

Again for the thrid time:

1. If Empathis powers affect anyone they can be replace thanks to Carina, and you have yet to show Meggan using empathic power to control anyone, all you did was claim Meggan control demons in hell, where she herself clearly disagrees.

2. Kang Time Manipulation, whole armies of Ultron, Physically invulnerable Ghost Riders, And you know by having people who themselves , while still slower than Majestic, are no sloutch

3. For the third time again, show me one official confirmation or anything suggest people couldnt just simply teleport away from it. Specially Given Genis has teleported outside the conventional universe (to Asgard) or outside the multiverse when killing Eternity (when he was the very embodiment of multiverse).

Omg brought stuffs about Kang's ability to places beyond space, time and reality.

Really what gives you the impression that character pages in comicvine arent wiki?

There see the tabs

1. News

2. WIKI

3. New Comics

yada yada yada.

Now i personally would have no problem if you got information from Wiki or Buckshot if this was a normal thread, its a tournament, you have to substantiate your claim.

Buckshot cant do that for you because he isnt a part of this tournament, perhaps you should have asked Buckshot to team up with you..

@killemall

I always assumed that this site isn´t a regular wiki page, that's why I´ve sign in in the first place since 2011 and still comming again day by day. Most of the wiki issues you are questioning comes from bio pages that were edited by buckshot. I'm not dumb, I know that users edit the pages, not writers. I just used the information he added to the site, and frankly, he is not a random user. I believe he is the Majestic expert around here and one of the WildStorm ones as well. Regardless, the bio page also contains the issues for reference, so why all that fuzz about it? It was really necessary? I´ve presented the reference for the creation blades as well. The way you put it looked like I was intentionally lying bringing claims out of nowhere, I´m far from being like that.

Also, about Meggan, of course she wasn´t mind controling the demons, she doesn't possess telepathy. The name of her power is called empathy, and it has nothing to do with mind control, but emotion control, and the scan clearly states she was being able to raise a riot in hell, by controlling the emotions of the demons, increasing their anger, etc.

"Make them feel what I felt, in this case anger, always anger.."

Your own scan proves she can control or influence if you prefer other beings, if she can do this to demons in hell, she can do it against most of your team members.

I´ve also presente the refference issues for the Otherspace in earlier posts

7. Yes she can do that, just check the Wildcats issues #24-26 and also World's End #14.

I mean, come on man. I don´t know what you are trying to accomplish doing this. All the confirmation you asked was given. Sorry if I don´t work like you, I tend to trust the word of my opponent when I don´t know about a specific character or subject, especially an experienced one like you. I thought you would act the same way, but I guess I was wrong.

@higorm: Look i am not going to address it individually but me asking you to substantiate something is a whole different issue vs saying you are lying. Thats 2 different thing. I am sorry you feel that way, but i am only asking for proof. Marvel issues i can go check anytime you want, its the Wildstorm instance that is a bit harder because i cant get a hold of the issues.

Instead of blinkering between ourselves let the voters decide what they feel.

I will also like to add that Kang's armor is shielded from mental assaults. So I don't think it's possible to manipulate his emotions.

Here is another example of Kang freezing time as well. Here he is freezing a person in place:

Also, Kang's armor can disable the powers of people as well. Here is Iron Lad temporarily disabling Magneto and Dr. Doom's powers:

Now before you guys tell me that's not Kang, that's Iron Lad! Let me remind you guys that the armor that Iron Lad is using was made by Kang the Conqueror, and is actually a derivative of his own armor:

The armor is also neuro-kinetic, responding at the speed of thought:

Gallery

It can even change its appearance, depending on the wielder's imagination. The armor's responses are also automatic, defending even before Iron Lad thinks.

Gallery

@boschepg: @omgomgwtfwtf: @killemall@higormAs you are all aware the quality of debate here is slipping, we (as in both teams) both started brilliantly, proper respect from opponents, now it looks like we are having personal gripe and we are pretty much re-interating same thing again and again. If you have anything completely new to add just do so and we can maybe summarize both our counters into one last post, perhaps post it on PM to a neutral guy, just to prevent one team last post somehow directly countering the other teams and let the voters decide.

The reason i am asking to make a last summary post is, lets face it, the debate is rather lengthy, i am one of the person involved it debate, and i have tried to re-read the debate again, twice now, and each time i get bored and lost before i read the whole way through, its going to be no different from voters either.

Its been fantanstic debating with you guys, regardless of who wins or lose, lets get to the end stuff and let this conclude, its going no where atm.

P.S. : I totally seem to have tagged myself as well, yeah too much typing and reading, sue me :p

@killemall: fair enough, sorry if it looked I overreacted, it wasn´t my intention. Let´s finish this debate like gentlemen :)

I don't have anything new to present you and at this point I won´t look for anything either, I believe I did my best to deliver a solid debate and arguments to convince the voters. Unless @boschepg needs to post something I think we are pretty much done.

We can ask @thundergodswrath to be the neutral user so we can send him our last summarized post, to make it easier to the voters to read, like you said.

Awesome debate from both parts, it was an honor.

@higorm: Sounds good to me.

@boschepg@higorm@killemall

It was a pleasure debating with all of you guys. Hopefully we all had a blast. I know tensions were high in some parts, but that happens a lot when debates get tediously long. Hopefully a post limit will be initiated so problems like these won't occur. Best of lucks to all of you guys!

@higorm: @killemall: @omgomgwtfwtf: Ive been stuck at work doing a 16 hour shift. So Im tired but it seems things have gotten heated since my last post. Also, things started getting repetitive and alot of agreeing/disagreeing on pure opinion.

Are each team selecting a representative to do a closing statement and then the votes begin? I still have to read the entire page 3 so Im good.