tourny/R1 boschepg/higorm VS killemall/omgomg

@smxlr8: I´m supporting Majestic and Meggan this time :) Bosche got the rest..

@boschepg: okay bro, I´m working on a reply right now!

@killemall

Yes, speaking for the Spartans, I doubt they would be affected by Ultron´s technopathy, considering that the Spartan possess technopathy as well. The Spartan is an immensley sophisticated android, built by the Kheram race using advanced alien science. They aren´t simple piece of machinery, they are much more complicated than that. Not to mention that Spartan has himself attacked computer systems before. They have protection systems in place for these kind of situations, so Ultron can´t just easily take over them.

The most powerful version of Spartan, without Void powers, was the referred to as the Platinum edition android. That thing was packing high end energy manipulation, plasma and light energy projection powers. It was immensley durable, had a regeneration factor, could errect forcefields and it's computer mind enabled it to tactically plan actions with almost no problem, enabling it to claim wins that would not have happened. It becomes able to predict an opponents next move when it has seen what the opponent can do. So considering the current version possess Void powers, you get a much more advanced and powerfull Spartan do deal with.

Aside from teleportation, Void's powers increased all of Spartan's physical attributes, making him now strong, fast and durable enough to face beings like Mr. Majestic in all out combat and win. His use of energy has also been affected and increased. Not only are his energy blasts now more powerful, Spartan is able to create energy shields, holograms, and energy constructs formed from pink light, the signature color of Void's powers.

Spartan could wirelessly connect with any computer system and bend it to his will. He could even link up to telephone lines and answer phone calls or radio transmissions via WiFi in his networking. Not to mention that each Spartan has a "brain" more powerful than any other computer (on Earth or otherwise), is programmed to be able to use any technology it comes across. High speed CPU processors functioning at literally the speed of light, extensive files and combat data. They can also download data on his combat foes to best determine their weaknesses and defeat them. I´ve already stated how much advanced the Kherubim technology is in comparison to Earth, so I hardly believe Ultron would be successfull in his attempt to control them. They are basically one of the most sophisticated machines in the universe.

I don´t see your Ghost Rider being able to perform that move so quickly and nicely. He must be in a certain proximity to do it right? With so many characters involved, the possibilities and variant are virutally incalculable, I highly doubt he would have time and enough speed display to use soul burning against our team. It´s not like they will stand there waiting for the burning. Not to mention that we have someone called Jon Constantine who can more than deal with these kind of threats since he is well versed in this department. I´m not sure if it would work on Meggan either. The sould burning isn´t supposed affect only evil beings or something like that? Not to mention that Meggan went through Hell before and had no problem comming out of there unfazed.

I doubt he would fare well in this tactic against Prep Gods who can easily build specific protection to prevent being psychic assaulted. Mr. Majestic can build things in nanoseconds, he is by far the fastest character here. He could do it by himself, now imagine with the help of other prep gods. Not to mention that Majestros himself possess psychic training and was able to defend himself from a telepathic take over by 7 Daemonites (who are a powerfull race, parasitic beings who uses telepathy to take complete control over another being's body inhabiting their mind), so Majestros fought against seven of them at the same time and was able to free himself from the attack.

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Like I mentioned before, Mr. Majestic possess nanosecond reaction, which he can perform in the middle of the battle, so he can come up with devices to prevent psychic assaults, and if necessary, he can also change, adapt, rewrite whenever he needs during combat, the same way he did against Eradicator. He also possess the ability to read minds, so things will get even more easier for him to perform.

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We have several other options at disposal, other than just physical attacks. You do realize that according to the rules:

• BFR is allowed
• Win by team being defeated in any way ( incapitation, death, KO, or BFR )

So our team doesn´t really have to kill your team, we can either incapacitate, KO or BFR them, and we have ways to perform each one of this ways. I will wait for boschePG to adress his part before I start dropping my offensive ways of taking your team out.

Ok starting first, lets tag @omgomgwtfwtf for this, but i dont see being technopath as anything suggesting they could prevent a TO Virus, remember the entire race of Phalax are techno-paths just as well, they didnt fair any better why would Spartan.

If you are missing a specific counter to suggesting otherwise, we can let it for voters to decide.

I am unsure to why not. Ok Alexendra shown performing the feat was a novice at the time, although its never indicated it took a long time to perform.

Even if we assume it take a reasonable time, and given none of your team member are aware of this ability, i find it highly unlikely that ALL of you will be able to counter it.

Then it takes us back to Ghost Rider: Heaven of Fire # 6, where its shown that Ghost Rider can summon an entire army of past Ghost Rider, would work fine to keep you guys busy i would think.

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Its not like Ghost Rider's power are as easily countered as they affect souls rather than physical body, well unless you are an ancient demon and stuffs..

But the problem is its not a purely telepathic assault, he is just manipulating electron straight into someone brain using well energy manipulation.

Not to mention we dont know each other's team, i find it hard to believe anyone from your team know about a future version of Genis Vell, let alone know what attack he uses to actually try and come up with strategy.

Will Majestic be able to under what happened to his team, figure out oh this is what happened, and come up with a strategy on the go, all the while his brain very synopisis, his very perception are being twisted. Notice he doesnt even see Genis manipulating their brain, he is just going to see a giant, godlike Genis, pwning his team seeming invulnerable to everything they try.

Under normal circumstance, i would expect Majestic to see this and think he is fighting a godlike being as opposed to somehow mysterious suspect his and his entire team-mates brain synopsis are being manipulated by a godlike energy manipulator and a omniversal telepath no? That sounded a lot better in my head hehehe.

Nor can we just say, oh there are prep god, they will probably do something seem like a sufficient response, no? Pretty hard to protect a godlike energy manipulator from manipulating energy, specially when we know if you somehow figure out how to power Genis (last time that happened the universe the universe was nearly destroyed) , you need to have counter to prevent Carina just swapping his depowered body with a body of another Captain Marvel (Omg post the scan once, i did twice so i suppose i dont have to repost it again)

I think you got me wrong, i am not saying our team just cant be beaten, but rather its going to be very hard.

BFR isnt likely to work given Sentry, Ghost Rider, Genis and Carina can teleport, not entirely sure if @omgomgwtfwtf members (Ultron, and Kang can). And given we have someone who can simply pull them back from any point in time or space BFR seems like a very unlikely means.

KO and Incapication while possible certainly wont be easy, specially given the kind of durability the team is packing, kind of shield they have (havent even gotten into how powerful Genis's shield physically are).

We are actually just as versatile, matter manipulation, telepathy, teleportation, energy manipulation, resurrection its all there, also Genis and Sentry arent slow pokes either, while Majestic might be faster, he alone isnt going to do a lot againt those two, given Majestic does lack any other means to actually prevent them from resurrecting themselves or their counterpart.

P.S.: Regardless this has been a bas-ass tournament match-up thus far, hats off, hopefully this will continue, although i am going to be pretty slow on replying from tomorrow all the way until Friday. Have a nice day mate.

@boschepg & @higorm VS @killemall & @omgomgwtfwtf

Bloody nice battle so far. Hats off to you all

@beatboks1: It probably will get a lot more interesting, its getting serious now :) If the debate isnt over by next friday, expect a whole lot of stuffs from Ghost Rider and Sentry (who atm has been completely unused)

@killemall: thanks mate. This is indeed one hell of a battle, and has everything to go to Comic Vine history of epic debates! I´m glad to debeate in such a high level, good to end the year in golden standard! :D

@beatboks1: thanks bro!! Hope I can maintain this the level until the end of the debate :)

@sophia89: Nah nothing like he, is he by far the character i have read and know most about, we will get to him, perhaps not on this thread unless i really have to (coz you gotta have something new for the next thread, no?). Its not that i dont want to use him, or i was going to use him as a footsholdier, its just i havent had the need to use him just yet.

You will see some kick ass stuffs of Sentry further down the road, remember its not death seed Sentry here ,this is Sentry before Void left him.

@higorm:

@boschepg

@killemall

Yes, speaking for the Spartans, I doubt they would be affected by Ultron´s technopathy, considering that the Spartan possess technopathy as well. The Spartan is an immensley sophisticated android, built by the Kheram race using advanced alien science. They aren´t simple piece of machinery, they are much more complicated than that. Not to mention that Spartan has himself attacked computer systems before. They have protection systems in place for these kind of situations, so Ultron can´t just easily take over them.

I don't see how being technopaths yourselves and being advanced would protect you from Ultron's reach. Ultron effortlessly infected the entire Kree Empire and they have tech light years ahead of what Earth has. He also did this with the Phalanx with the sheer force of his own will. I also presented you with a feat that showed him affecting a technopath, who thought she had found a way to counter his t/o virus. In the end, she gets compromised rather instantly, and Ultron has her blow up for trying to mess with him.

Tony Stark, another person who can interface with technology, also has his tech compromised by Ultron pretty easily. I already presented a scan of future Tony removing Bleeding Edge from current Tony's body, because he states the armor is a one-way ticket for Ultron to manipulate them.

Here is the High Evolutionary commenting on how he couldn't believe Ultron subdued the Phalanx, because their technology is "infinitely superior".

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The most powerful version of Spartan, without Void powers, was the referred to as the Platinum edition android. That thing was packing high end energy manipulation, plasma and light energy projection powers. It was immensley durable, had a regeneration factor, could errect forcefields and it's computer mind enabled it to tactically plan actions with almost no problem, enabling it to claim wins that would not have happened. It becomes able to predict an opponents next move when it has seen what the opponent can do. So considering the current version possess Void powers, you get a much more advanced and powerfull Spartan do deal with.

The strength of your robot is irrelevant, because it is technology in the end. The Phalanx have infected robots like the Super-Adaptoid.

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I doubt he would fare well in this tactic against Prep Gods who can easily build specific protection to prevent being psychic assaulted. Mr. Majestic can build things in nanoseconds, he is by far the fastest character here. He could do it by himself, now imagine with the help of other prep gods. Not to mention that Majestros himself possess psychic training and was able to defend himself from a telepathic take over by 7 Daemonites (who are a powerfull race, parasitic beings who uses telepathy to take complete control over another being's body inhabiting their mind), so Majestros fought against seven of them at the same time and was able to free himself from the attack.

Once again you are using tech to try and counter us, which is impossible, given that we have the t/o virus, which assimilates and takes control of technology. The t/o virus would also infect and take over your bodies as well. It can infect people without them even knowing it:

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The Phalanx is so virulent, that it managed to take over the entire Kree Empire (galaxy size empires we're talking about) in a matter of a few hours. They even managed to erect a forcefield that made it impossible to enter or leave Kree space.

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The t/o virus so potent that Richard Rider required eighty-three percent of the entire Nova Force in order to keep it in check. The Worldmind commented that a single moment of hesitation would allow the virus to take control again.

Like I mentioned before, Mr. Majestic possess nanosecond reaction, which he can perform in the middle of the battle, so he can come up with devices to prevent psychic assaults, and if necessary, he can also change, adapt, rewrite whenever he needs during combat, the same way he did against Eradicator. He also possess the ability to read minds, so things will get even more easier for him to perform.

Reaction time is pointless versus a guy who can manipulate time freely. Here is his son Scarlet Centurion freeing Kang from prison.

"We've projected a null-time field around this mountain, and are extracting you between heartbeats."

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I think you got me wrong, i am not saying our team just cant be beaten, but rather its going to be very hard.

BFR isnt likely to work given Sentry, Ghost Rider, Genis and Carina can teleport, not entirely sure if @omgomgwtfwtf members (Ultron, and Kang can). And given we have someone who can simply pull them back from any point in time or space BFR seems like a very unlikely means.

Ultron during Annihilation Conquest has shown the capacity to teleport. Here are the Phalanx teleporting Gamora and Drax after Richard Rider.

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Here is Ultron teleporting to the High Evolutionary's base to capture Adam Warlock.

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Also, it should pretty common knowledge that Kang can teleport too. He can even forcefully teleport other people away as well with a press of a button.

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@killemall: that's why I cant stop reading this debate im litaratly at the edge of my seat reading this

@higorm: @killemall: @omgomgwtfwtf:

just letting everyone know that I will have to break up my next post into two parts cuz

1- there is alot of stuff to counter

2- for fear of length cuz Im getting the feeling even my partner missed some stuff, though we have worked it out, lol

3-wanting everything to be equal, since Killemall is busy at work, but Im sure will take a peak here and there, wanted him to know there will be two parts from me and it will take a little time on my end

@beatboks1: @sophia89: @oceanmaster21:

for those following, stuff about to get on cosmic level here. Figured it is easy to follow as it goes instead of reading everything at the end and just letting you know I have to cut stuff up into two parts

@boschepg: thanks for the heads up

@killemall

I will adress this answer to your partner then rather than post the same thing twiece ok?

Can you post the scans so we can see her performance at doing it? Have she ever fought someone like Mr. Majestic who possess at least nanosecond reaction speed? The sould burning work as area effect? Must be close to tag the person? I just can´t see how she is going to tag someone who is immensively faster than she is, who can pretty much blitz her so hard she would waste a good portion of time to reform herself and return to battle.

So considering Majestros wouldn´t be tagged by this attack, he shouldn't bother to counter it. He is fast enough to dodge the attack and smart enough to realize it´s danger. Not to mention Constantine will assuredly have ways to counter the Ghost Rider. First, he can feel his presence before anything happens. After all he dealt with major threats like God and Devil before, the first thing he would do is protect the team against anything related to that menance. The scan below shows what I´m talking about:

Or he can just BFR the Ghost Rider, even if your team manage to bring her back, the time will be wasted already, giving the momentum our team need. I believe @boschepg can say a lot better than me about him if you need more info about it. But as it stands, we are pretty safe from her.

I don´t think that will be possible. Majestros can manipulate energy as well. I couldn´t figure by the scan you posted, but did Genis Vell manage to perform that feat against powerhouse-like character such as Majestic? Or he just did it against not so powerfull or relevant characters?

Well, that might be true, but we have the additional backing from Spartan. Considering we have 7 days of prep and 4 hours to bring our prep to this location, further considering that Majestic can bring the most powerfull version of the Spartan, which consists of ther last android version received the acquisition of Void powers, he is far from being a mere piece of machinery. Majestros can bring the The Spartan who merged himself with the Void and now possess ways to perform her powers as well.

Now it´s time to detail those powers. Adrianna Tereshkova, a.k.a, The Void:

Who?

Powers and Abilities

Time Manipulation

Omni-Teleportation

Clairvoyance

Precognition

Considering that Spartan is as powerfull as the Void, but manage to use said powers in a more actual way since he was able to fight Tao, who is a reality warper, countering everything he was doing as fast as him. So he possess ways of helping Majestic and the rest of his team to come up with an effective strategy to neutralize Genis-Vell attempt of synapse manipulation.

I agree with you, but we will get to it soon enough :P

There is other option beyond just sending the character to another place, that would be fairly innocent tactic.

KO and mostly Incapacitation are solid options for our team to use against your team. There´s no room for durability when you are facing someone like Majestic, I will explain why on my next post.

Majestic already performed a ressurection feat before, so that´s not something exclusive to your team.

@sophia89: @oceanmaster21:

yeah...knowing our opponents you always need a next level

@boschepg: ahahaha trunks is my fav super sayain although I did like grown up gohan despite what people say about him

I........don't.........wha............ *brain fried from sheer awesomeness of battle*........

This is epic.

@omgomgwtfwtf

Majestic and Spartan are both faster and can react a lot faster than Ultron.They already demonstrade to be on pair with Flash in terms of speed. Majestic already manage to reprogram a powerhouse like Eradicator before using his laser vision. He can do the same to Ultron, either by sending (blasting) messages in the form of light into his eyes or by Spartan using his omni-teleportation powers to teleport pieces of him apart so he will be exposed. That being said, Ultron wouldn´t have time to release any virus or control anything with his technopathy. You see, Spartan isn´t your regular piece of machine. He is far more something else. Spartan's void powers comes from the Orb of Power, which consists in reality creating/warping energies that made the universe, so they stand beyond science and magic. But, even if he couldn't teleport parts of Ultron's body, the creation blades Majestic is packing can cut through anything, including Ultron.

Majestic reprogramming Eradicator:

Orb of Power

In the far future, the orbs had been part of Omnia, Mistress of Light. Omnia would lose her final battle against the darkness, but could not be destroyed. Instead, her power was dispersed into many small Orbs of Power. Spartan is bonded with this celestial orb and entity.

Tony Stark was hacked by the Skrulls, don´t think he is the best option for comparison here. Kherubim technoly far exceeds his own. Also, the Spartans doesn´t work like a regular machine so this poins is useless. Spartan not only have ways to detect the upcomming danger before it happens, but also have ways to counter Ultron with Majestic and the others, specially Hank Pym, the guy who created Ultron.

That´s not so impressive considering all the scan shows is the virus infecting random people. You are not dealing with regular beings here. Not to mention that like said above, my team have more than one way to counter Ultron properly. The combination of Spartan Void powers, Majestic genius level intelect and incredible reaction speed along with Hank Pym knowledge should be more than enough to deal with this threat. Add Ultimate Reed Richards and Madison Jeffries to the mix and my team can pretty much shut him down for good.

This is all pointless considering he won´t have time to perfom any of those feats anyway. The Void was so fast that not even Flash was able to catch her considering she could fold herself through space faster than he could keep up. Majestic effortlessly works at nanosecond reaction time, far beyond anyone of your team have ever imagine to react. So it doesn´t matter how good is the virus if you won´t have time to use it here.

Reaction time is pointless versus a guy who can manipulate time freely. Here is his son Scarlet Centurion freeing Kang from prison.

I wouldn't be so sure. Mr. Majestic already dealt with time manipulation before. He was caught in a time loop (temporal stasis generation) but as soon as he realize it, being aware of it, he jusf find himself to be immune to it. Not t mention other members of my team also manage to deal with time manipulation before. Reed Richards owns a time machine. I hardly believe this would be a problem for them.

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Yeah I already knew about that, teleport isn´t a issue for anybody here. The real issue is that our team members have BFR beings who are far superior that your team, like Constantine being able to BFR the likes of Phantom Stranger and Manthing. So how your team would deal with this level BFR? Basic teleport won´t help, since we can send the enemy to an specific dimension they will have their powers neutralized, or where tech doesn´t work, etc..

@higorm:

Majestic and Spartan are both faster and can react a lot faster than Ultron.They already demonstrade to be on pair with Flash in terms of speed.

Speed is irrelevant when one of my team members can freely manipulate time. Here is Kang and Immortus fighting in Avengers Forever.

"Battling between heartbeats - our killing fields the space within a single moment. Ah, for a straightforward battlefield again, for war as it is meant to be, army against army - and not this creeping between seconds."

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Majestic already manage to reprogram a powerhouse like Eradicator before using his laser vision. He can do the same to Ultron, either by sending (blasting) messages in the form of light into his eyes or by Spartan using his omni-teleportation powers to teleport pieces of him apart so he will be exposed.

1) The scan you presented shows him using microwaves to accomplish that feat. He also went past the shielding of Eradicator's armor in order to that. The problem with that is, he can't duplicate that trick with Ultron.

Here is Firebird blasting Alkhema with every ounce of her microwave energy and Alkhema is completely unfazed by the attack:

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2) The Ultron we are using is composed of a vibranium-adamantium shell, the same composition that made Captain America's shield. Captain America's shield is known for its ability to absorb impact and energy.

How good can Ultron absorb attacks? Well, just take a look:

4) Peter Parker already tried rewriting Ultron's programming in Age of Ultron. How did that turn out? Well, Ultron led Peter to believe that he succeeded, then restored the compromised Ultron drone's programming instantly.

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Here is Wonder-Man trying to disrupt Ultron's circuits in Mighty Avengers, Ultron is instantly able to adapt to the disruption and reverse it, knocking out Simon. He did this while fighting a bloodlusted Sentry and hacking into SHIELD.

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5) I doubt teleportation would work, because if that was a valid option, Kang would have definitely employed it during his numerous losses against Ultron, and that never occurred. Also, may I ask how you would know which Ultron to actually affect? With the techno-organic virus, Ultron gains a healing factor and anything you do teleport can simply be replaced/teleported back into place by Carina Walters or Captain Marvel.

That being said, Ultron wouldn´t have time to release any virus or control anything with his technopathy. You see, Spartan isn´t your regular piece of machine. He is far more something else. Spartan's void powers comes from the Orb of Power, which consists in reality creating/warping energies that made the universe, so they stand beyond science and magic. But, even if he couldn't teleport parts of Ultron's body, the creation blades Majestic is packing can cut through anything, including Ultron.

The Phalanx are not new to 'reality creating/warping energies', here they are harnessing the powers of the Uni-Force (you know, the stuff that makes you basically omnipotent).

"Deconstructive analysis will enable replication of the energy signature. We can create an army of uni-force wielders."

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As for the Creation Blades being able to cut through the Vibranium-Adamantium alloy shell of Ultron, that is something that should be left to the voters, because it's really the question of "what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object".

Tony Stark was hacked by the Skrulls, don´t think he is the best option for comparison here. Kherubim technoly far exceeds his own. Also, the Spartans doesn´t work like a regular machine so this poins is useless. Spartannot only have ways to detect the upcomming danger before it happens, but also have ways to counter Ultron with Majestic and the others, specially Hank Pym, the guy who created Ultron.

Uh, you are mistaken dude. I believe I posted this scan anyways, but here it is again. The Skrulls hacked Tony Stark's armor using a method Ultron came up with, because the Skrull's information was outdated. The Skrulls then admit that Ultron is smarter than everyone (Hank Pym included) and even the entire Skrull collective (the same Skrull empire that is galactic size and possesses technology far ahead of standard Earth tech).

"And we can thank the artificial intelligence Ultron for the breakthrough. Ultron discovered the secret of Tony Stark. He/She/It discovered that Tony stark has gone bio. He's gone organic."

"How was Ultron able to to discover that and you/Pym were not?"

"Because Ultron is smarter than us. It's smarter than Pym, Stark, Richards, and it's smarter than the Empire's collective."

That´s not so impressive considering all the scan shows is the virus infecting random people. You are not dealing with regular beings here. Not to mention that like said above, my team have more than one way to counter Ultron properly. The combination of Spartan Void powers, Majestic genius level intelect and incredible reaction speed along with Hank Pym knowledge should be more than enough to deal with this threat. Add Ultimate Reed Richards and Madison Jeffries to the mix and my team can pretty much shut him down for good.

I guess you are ignoring the part where it has infected Gamora, Drax, Nova, Super-Adaptoid, and Adam Warlock.

The techno-organic virus also resurrected every dead person in Genosha and has even infected the demons in Magik's limbo dimension.

The techno-organic virus is what allows Apocalypse to interface with his Celestial technology as well.

So to say that it's "not so impressive" is fallacious.

I have already refuted your other points before as well. Madison Jeffries is useless because his powers cannot control techno-organic beings. Majestic's reflexes are pointless versus a time manipulator (just ask Zoom). Ultimate Richards though very intelligent himself can't hope to beat both Kang and Ultron himself.

This is all pointless considering he won´t have time to perfom any of those feats anyway. The Void was so fast that not even Flash was able to catch her considering she could fold herself through space faster than he could keep up. Majestic effortlessly works at nanosecond reaction time, far beyond anyone of your team have ever imagine to react. So it doesn´t matter how good is the virus if you won´t have time to use it here.

Funny that you speak about time, when we have Kang the Conqueror.

I wouldn't be so sure. Mr. Majestic already dealt with time manipulation before. He was caught in a time loop (temporal stasis generation) but as soon as he realize it, being aware of it, he jusf find himself to be immune to it. Not to mention other members of my team also manage to deal with time manipulation before. Reed Richards owns a time machine. I hardly believe this would be a problem for them.

Kang fights other people who can regularly time travel as well. His time travel tech is superior to other time travelers. Dr. Doom has a time machine, but he doesn't fair any better versus Kang because of it.

Kang could simply BFR your team to temporal limbo, a place outside of space and time. The only people who can access it is Kang and Immortus, because their tech are the only ones capable of leaving and entering a place with no time.

Yeah I already knew about that, teleport isn´t a issue for anybody here. The real issue is that our team members have BFR beings who are far superior that your team, like Constantine being able to BFR the likes of Phantom Stranger and Manthing. So how your team would deal with this level BFR? Basic teleport won´t help, since we can send the enemy to an specific dimension they will have their powers neutralized, or where tech doesn´t work, etc..

killemall already addressed this point. You haven't named any specific place where my team can't get to.

Hell is a walk in the park for Ghost Rider.

Also, Kang could just teleport your team to limbo, where the concept of time and space don't exist.

@killemall: @omgomgwtfwtf: @higorm:

Ill post tomorrow. Happy New Years guys. Wanted to start 2014 with a Bang on this battle, lol

@killemall:

this isnt my 2 parter but...we have certain limits in this tourney. I tend to find that when you place the word like omni - in front of anything that it makes it over limits unless you are claiming hyperbole. That is why we havent brought up Reed's cosmic cube or the fact that Constantine has trumped the Presence (God) as a weapon tactic...cuz it isnt allowed, lol

Kang could simply BFR your team to temporal limbo, a place outside of space and time. The only people who can access it is Kang and Immortus, because their tech are the only ones capable of leaving and entering a place with no time.

Also, Kang could just teleport your team to limbo, where the concept of time and space don't exist.

Uhm...this is pretty short sided to say this. Doom and 616 Reed have reached this dimension and we do have the House of Mystery as the scan shows, operates in Limbo at the crossroads of space and time. Not to mention it also was owned by Morpheous (Sandman) from the Dreaming who is an abstract being himself. I dont think Limbo is just Kang territory.

House traveling through Limbo

Pym can get to Underspace, Microverse, Macroverse and Overspace (The Dimension of Abstract beings)

I need a bump now, lol

@boschepg:

this isnt my 2 parter but...we have certain limits in this tourney. I tend to find that when you place the word like omni - in front of anything that it makes it over limits unless you are claiming hyperbole. That is why we havent brought up Reed's cosmic cube or the fact that Constantine has trumped the Presence (God) as a weapon tactic...cuz it isnt allowed, lol

I was never the one to bring up omnipotent powers, you guys were. You guys have already mentioned Constantine trumping the Presence and the Void power. I made no mention of these things in my initial posts. Rather, I rebuttaled claim that Ultron never dealt with 'reality warping powers', by showcasing the instance with the uni-force.

Also, I find it kind of fallacious to claim that Constantine trumped the Presence, when it's impossible to trump an Omnipotent. That would be the definition of hyperbole.Constantine, rather, told the Presence that sending him to Hell would be a mistake, and the Presence agreed with him on that part.

Because, in all honestly, Kang could easily grab a cosmic cube as well. He already gave one to the Guardians of the Galaxy to use against Magus.

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Uhm...this is pretty short sided to say this. Doom and 616 Reed have reached this dimension and we do have the House of Mystery as the scan shows, operates in Limbo at the crossroads of space and time. Not to mention it also was owned by Morpheous (Sandman) from the Dreaming who is an abstract being himself. I dont think Limbo is just Kang territory.

I don't remember Dr. Doom or Reed ever reaching temporal Limbo. If you have a scan please post it, because temporal Limbo is different from other Limbos. Marvel uses the same names for many places, so there might be confusion at to which 'Limbo' Reed and Doom have gone to. The Avengers could only access Chronopolis (Kang's base), with Kang's time machine. Chronopolis is located in between Limbo and the Timestream, and has access to every timeline/reality in existence, because it is simultaneously connected to each of them.

But all of this is pretty much irrelevant because we're all fighting on the same battlefield, nothing in the OP suggests that we can fight from an area outside the prescribed arena. If that were the case, Killemall and my team wouldn't even be in the same reality as your team, rather we would be in Chronopolis, where, from there, Kang can actually collapse entire timelines at will. A tool that is used by his future incarnation, Immortus, to weed dangerous timelines/realities out of existence.

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Yeah, so if me and killemall really wanted to be OP, we could be bringing things like cosmic cubes and the Heart of Forever.

@thundergodswrath When is the last day to post before voting?

@boschepg: @omgomgwtfwtf: @higorm:Alright as OmgOmg pretty much countered everything stated by both of you, we still had 1 particular reply directed towards me by Higorm which i had not address. So here's the counter dont with sufficient detail scans but albiet in a lazy fashion (i am short on time sue me :p )

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1. Can you post scan of Ghost Rider doing the soul burning stuffs to see how long it took - Sure here you go.

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2. Has she ever fought anyone with a nanosecond reaction time - No, Ghost Rider has never fought anyone with a nanosecond reaction time.

Lack of speed, to some extent can easily be countered through other means like flooding the area with soul eating insects, something done in this very own instance, and something done in a different instance just as well (The first set of scans of country wide soul burning is from Ghost Rider Vol 7 # 3, this instance is from Ghost Rider Volume 7 # 5)

3. The soul burning works on Area of Effect? Must to close to tag them? - Yes it does work on Area of Effect, but the attack was fairly large, that burnt out entire souls on a country wide effect.

4. How will she tag someone a lot faster than her? - Well first the only one in your team faster than her would be Mr. Majestic, if he somehow escapes after all the soul burning insects distracting him, or a whole armies of Ghost Rider distracting him (i showed this in the last reply didnt think a need to repost it but will do if you want), the rest dont have speed advantage, so yeah if Mr. Majestic somehow escapes a massive country wide AOE attack, something he has never expected (when simultaneously having his brain synopsis messed by an omniversal telepath), the rest are hardly going to escape this fate.

5. Constantine can avoid the attack with a magic circle ? - I would assume it would be pretty hard to think when your brain synopsis is being messed up by Genis. Even then you think its feasible for Contantine to think about the attack, draw a circle to protect him, when he all of a sudden faces an opponent he doesnt even know? Even then if we assume Contantine somehow does do this, anything stopping Genis , or Carina simply teleporting him outside the magic circle?

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Just to have the bases covered, if you think mystical properties would affect Genis ability to BFR, its not the case, he has no trouble manipulating magic. Here is Genis manipulating and breaking through magical barried of Maha Yogi (see not even a fodder magician) who is one of the most powerful demonspawn of Merlin.

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So he manipulated Maha Yogi own magic, just like he would manipulate normal energy to break thru to a barrier which could only be broken by Maha Yogi's own magic.

Lastly, in response to how is Genis going to know Contantine would build a circle to protect him, thats what Genis's cosmic awareness allows to do, see things before they even happen. Here he sees that a couple of guys are going to open fire in the future, appears there before it happens and stop it.

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6. Majestic could destroy Ghost Rider body and that would take good time to heal - actually it doesnt. Ghost Rider healing is extremely quick.

Ghost Rider vicious Cricle # 9 - His head gets blowned, heals instantly

Ghost Rider - Vengence Unbound # 25, again heals his entire body, instantly after it was totally and completely destroyed, from a pool of liquid hellfire (Lobo eat your heart out :p )

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7. Or we could BFR Ghostrider - i did show Ghost Rider teleporting throught space and time without any issues, and we have Carina Genis to bring him back.

Lets turn it around, what stopping me from BFRing your entire team into Hell, specially if we take Constantine out first (i dont see how not, he doesnt have durability to tank GR soul burning attack, we have both pre cog as well as teleportation to teleport him out of the protective circle)

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8. If somehow Ghost Rider soul eating swarms dont distract you, someone Genis mind manipulation doesnt distract you, the whole barriage of Ultrons @omgomgwtfwtf pulled out as prep dont distract you, or all the robots from your team that has been taken over dont distract you, Ultron can just as easily pull up a massive area wide telepathy to distract you.

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Heroes in this instance were lucky they had Franklin in their side, whose psionic abilities drawfed Ultron (as one would expect), your team doesnt have that luxury.

Conclusion from Ghost Rider part

1. Speed isnt going to be a major impediment because :

a) You team members arent aware of what our team can and cant do, so its not an attack they would be expecting, after all its a very niche attack.

b) Only 1 member in your team is faster than Ghost Rider, namely Majestic, so rest dont even have speed advantage to rely upon.

c) Speed advantage can be negated by distraction, lots and lots of distraction: filling the area first with soul eating swarms, Genis mind manipulation, Ultron's telepathy AOE attack, a whole army of Ghost Rider to help, a whole army of Ultrons to help.

2. You counters like magic circles can be avoided because :

a) Constantine isnt going to know what we are going to do because he is neither cosmically aware nor can he see the future. Genis and Carina are cosmically aware, they can both see the future, Kang can do the same (albiet not being cosmically aware)

b) he can just as easily be teleported away from the circle.

3. BFR wont work because Sentry, Genis, Kang, Ultron, Carina, Ghost Rider everyone can teleport and apart from Sentry and Ultron everyone is capable of BFR themselves as well.

And in the most unlikely scenario where Majestic somehow escapes, which i still dont agree, the same cant be said about anyone else in the team and once we take out Constantine, you dont have anyone who can so much slow down Ghost Rider let alone defeat him. People dont normally see just how scary Ghost Rider is.

Is this sufficient counter , anything you dislike point out but sorry i am still going to be pretty darn late in replying sorry.

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@omgomgwtfwtfalright so there is the counter, happy? unhappy? anything to add? Sorry for the delayed response, and sorry i am still going to be late from here up until Friday.

I honestly dont think there is anything we havent already countered nor do i see any real viable means for their team to stop or escape us but lets see what they have in store for us next :)

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To everyone reading this response or involved in the debate, HAPPY NEW YEAR.

@killemall:

Nah, dude. You did a great job. I got nothing much to add. Though I would like to clarify that Kang could manipulate the timestream to the point, where he could stop time in a localized area, causing our enemies to be frozen in place :) So it would be even easier to tag them, since they're frozen in time.

Probably Saturday.

@thundergodswrath: So that means if the counter is somehow bad ass I really have to make my next reply (which would be Friday evening) count.

Lol, yeah

@thundergodswrath: as the thread creator and hence the boss of the tournament are you liking the intensity. I think the thread has been freaking intense with both teams being at each others throat.

I agree, out of all the battles in the tourny. This one seems to be the most entertaining.

@omgomgwtfwtf:

@killemall:

@higorm:

Part 1 - random replies and characters. Ive quoted what you guys said within each spoiler block so I wouldnt lengthen the thread

1

·I can't wait for Higorm to post his prep, because you guys are going to have a lot of problems with just Kang and Ultron, let alone Killemall's god squad.

Thats a matter of perspective

·I have one quick question, how exactly do your guys prep specific counter? Your guys rebuttal made it seem as though your team has prior knowledge of ours, despite the fact that the OP stipulated that we have no prior knowledge of each other. 1. The majority of your prep are specific counters to our team and given that our encounter is random, that would be impossible.

Cuz it isnt random. Nowhere does it say random. We get 7 days prep for the battle. In those 7 we get 4 days to implement. If it was random than we wouldnt need prep. In this case, @thundergodswrath Im assuming we get basic knowledge of our opponents. Like Kang is a time pirate, Ultron is an AI robot, Ghost Rider is a demon. Nothing like kryptonite is Supermans weakness type stuff. In that case my think tank is running scenarios over and over again over such potential threats. Its what prep guys do

·They and our team are actually pretty damn well matched which is why its been awesome. They have 4 prep genuine and 2 scary powerhouses, we have 2 prep genuine and 4 powerhouses.

Just to be clear, who are you deeming as your prep guys?

·How are you guys attacking from pocket dimensions? The battle takes place on a specified battlefield. To attack from an area outside of the battlefield would amount to Self-BFR. Because if that is allowed, me and Killemall's team don't even need to be in the same reality as yours then.

Oh man, this is too easy. We are claiming the House of Mystery. The House of Mystery is a mobile home, as we have shown, that is between space and time. Created by Morpheous of the Endless. It can be moved into the city. Technically, Pym Space is connected to "doors" within the city. The HQ could be the size of a dime within the city and still be connected to city. If it will be simpler for you, we could say that the Pym Space is connected in the House of Mystery

·I was never the one to bring up omnipotent powers, you guys were. You guys have already mentioned Constantine trumping the Presence and the Void power. I made no mention of these things in my initial posts. Rather, I rebuttaled claim that Ultron never dealt with 'reality warping powers', by showcasing the instance with the uni-force.

actually, me and killemall decided against the omnipotent powers showings early on. Than this is fine with us regarding the Phalanx Uniforce scan. We are both showing our higher feats. We where disputing if you where actually claiming the Uni-force cuz it was with the Phalanx and not Ultron. I thought you were trying to 7degree us with the connection. I was also going to doubt stumbling across the Uni-force anyways. Are you challenging Void cuz I dont know much about her?

·Alright as OmgOmg pretty much countered everything stated by both of you, we still had 1 particular reply directed towards me by Higorm which i had not address.But all of this is pretty much irrelevant because we're all fighting on the same battlefield, nothing in the OP suggests that we can fight from an area outside the prescribed arena. If that were the case, Killemall and my team wouldn't even be in the same reality as your team, rather we would be in Chronopolis, where, from there, Kang can actually collapse entire timelines at will. A tool that is used by his future incarnation, Immortus, to weed dangerous timelines/realities out of existence.

1- we are countering your counter

2- we arent claiming to fight outside the arena since all our HQs can be placed into the battle field. the HoM is mobile. Chronopolis isnt

3a- it isnt relevent here, but when has Kang collapsed timelines? Immortus has but Kang?

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3b-now you are claiming Immortus is Kang???

Yeah, so if me and killemall really wanted to be OP, we could be bringing things like cosmic cubes and the Heart of Forever.

Thats why we couldnt bring our Cosmic Cube, lol. Though the Hearts durability isnt much, lol

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·GENIS

-

·So the question is , did you team have any defense against their brain synopsis being manipulated?

Out battle strategy is going to suggest defense for this. Robots dont have brains to be manipulated. Also, Majestic sort of does the same thing, Reed can stretch those parts of his body and is immune to reality warpers

I know as boshe brought up Hank can do something similar, in a much more smaller scale, scrambling Quicksilvers brain while posses by Chthon, its going to be pretty damn hard to counter someone who can do that on a much, much wider scale, not to mention significantly faster in execution (Genis is of course a lot faster than Hank Pym)

Constantine's prep has taken down the Flash. Flash greater in speed than Genis?

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Just to have the bases covered, if you think mystical properties would affect Genis ability to BFR, its not the case, he has no trouble manipulating magic. Here is Genis manipulating and breaking through magical barried of Maha Yogi (see not even a fodder magician) who is one of the most powerful demonspawn of Merlin.

We can do that too and have shown it already. Here is Constantine threatening Merlin with a magic trap bomb that his friends ate. Merlin backed down. Also Hank can scan magic with tech

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Not to mention we dont know each other's team, i find it hard to believe anyone from your team know about a future version of Genis Vell, let alone know what attack he uses to actually try and come up with strategy.

We are assuming we dont know anyone on your team personally, or as said before, why do we have 7 days prep? Knowing the powers of future Genis I will agree with you. Whether or not my preppers would think of that is for the voters to decide

·KANG

·This is response to Boschepg's prep and why it would not work. 1) Kang has access to every piece of tech you own. He's from the future, the tech you guys possess is ancient history to him.

theoretically...yes. actuality I will question.

·2) In regards to Iron Lad and Vision. Iron Lad is an alternate version of Kang, just like Immortus is. He has no bearing on this fight. Neither does the Vision from Young Avengers either, because that Vision is a completely different one from the Vision we know.

·Once again, Immortus is not Kang, just as how Iron Lad is not Kang. They are derivatives of the same person, but not the same individual.

Didnt you just claim him as eventually becoming Immortus? All Im doing is showing if Immortus is Kangs future self, than Immortus understanding of time is the same as Kang. If Kang knows it than Immortus knows it. (note the scan you placed up about Immortus. He knew where Kang hid the Heart of Time cuz he was Kang. Every divergent timeline crossroads at Kang becoming Immortus (until Avengers Forever issue 12) Even Kang said, am I witnessing my own death, when he was seeing Immortus dying.

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Here alternate future Tony states that everyone in this specific time period/reality can't leave because time is messed up so bad that it keeps repeating. The only person who can leave this time displacement is Kang.

Mr Majestic can. HigorM has showed it/ Also, time displacements are handled by people not connected to the timeline (Limbo)

·Kang's knowledge of the time stream is so advanced that he can view multiple possible events occurring at the same time, and view multiple timelines at once.

Kang does this in battle on the fly??? He definitely preps it but it isnt clairvoyance. It just means Kang knows when he will get beat ;)

·Also, I don't see why you're using plot as a justification of Kang's failures. He's a villain, he's bound to lose. It would be like arguing why Kang just doesn't time travel back into the past and push everyone's moms down the stairs, thus eliminating future threats to his existence.

·But given that the stipulations of this battle gives our characters no morals, Kang could, theoretically, travel to everyone of your character's past and push their moms down the stairs, eliminating their existence from the timestream.He could also travel in the past and ruin every tech you guys ever built, making it seem as though your characters have the worst misfortune in the world.

Im not trying to justify Kangs failures. Just questioning your perception of Kang.

1- the shunt back in time and kill the mom theory is good in theory...for beginners, but we know you cant do that cuz of Kangs understanding of how time works. It wont allow it. 2- Also, Kang time manip doesnt effect the people outside of time/space

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Also, it should pretty common knowledge that Kang can teleport too. He can even forcefully teleport other people away as well with a press of a button.

Yeah...Ill place this scan big. Read how Constantine can pretty much stop BFR. Its good to have a construct from the Dream

Nah, dude. You did a great job. I got nothing much to add. Though I would like to clarify that Kang could manipulate the timestream to the point, where he could stop time in a localized area, causing our enemies to be frozen in place :) So it would be even easier to tag them, since they're frozen in time.

We have shown Majestic can walk out of time freeze. Also, the rules of time prevent in Hell realms or Limbo like areas

Kang can instantly grab tech from other timelines during the middle of the battle to counter many of the things you bring up. He has a myriad of tech that he can summon at will. Also, he could summon individuals to the battlefield as well.

This is all theory. Also, anyone he summons worth wild are featless. He has to pretty much ask nicely if they arent that powerful

Reaction time is pointless versus a guy who can manipulate time freely. Here is his son Scarlet Centurion freeing Kang from prison.

o"We've projected a null-time field around this mountain, and are extracting you between heartbeats

and if we seal Kang in a Hell seal? Can anyone on your team cast a counter spell?

·ULTRON

·First your team as well as Boschepg team are going to pull in various androids and sentient robots, which is cool, disadvantage though is TO virus, Ultron can and has controlled an entire planet filled with sentient robot without any problem whatsoever, so your team gives us a lot to control. 2. Your tech will still be ours, because trying to counter Ultron's technopathy and T/O Virus infection would amount to nothing (reasons stated above).

If you are missing a specific counter to suggesting otherwise, we can let it for voters to decide.

I have to ask you guys, if you can show Ultron can TO the Phalanx, and we show we can KO Ultron who can TO the phalanx, doesnt that make what you can do moot since we would have shut down the more dominate force on your team?

·Pym cannot comprehend the tech that made Vision and he even corrects everyone when they presumed that he made Ultron. Ultron is a constantly evolving life form and, to Hank's own volition, is smarter than he is. Smart enough to make tech that he, Reed, and Tony cannot even fathom.

·Here is Tony even admitting that Ultron is smarter than he is:

·Here is future Tony admitting that Ultron is smarter than him:

·Here are the Skrulls admitting that Ultron is smarter than the entire Skrull collective:

Here is Future Tony stripping current Tony of his Bleeding Edge armor, because Ultron can easily take it over otherwise.

1-I see what you are trying to do with Ultron. Point is, Ultron still refers to Hank as Father or God.

2-Why is Tony Stark's comments on Ultron mean anything in this fight? Hank Pym is the artificial intelligence master. Not Stark. I find it hard for people to actually believe the attempt and say Hank Pym didnt create Ultron. Here is Reed and Hank discussing that. You will find more scans of Ultron claiming he built Ultron than not.

Madison Jeffries powers would only aid Ultron in the end. Ultron is a technopath. He controls technology and machinery very easily. He is also a very capable robot designer himself.

1- are we still assuming that the Pym code wont shut down Ultron in this scenario?

2- speed feats of Ultron? Cuz he doesnt build them faster than Majestic or Madison Jeffries who does it almost instantly on the atomic level

·Knife robots that can tank Ultimate Thor? Well, that's child play to Ultron. Here is him making Alkhema, a robot that can solo the entire Avengers, including Thor. (Mainstream Thor > Ultimate Thor)

The same Alkhema that got one shotted by Hawkeye? We can build our tech way faster than anything Ultron can make so we have more than one Knife, Sentinel, Box, Spartan

·Basically every piece of tech you bring onto the table will be turned against you. Anything your Marvel characters have access to, Kang will have access to, by virtue of being a time traveler from the future.

This is still all theory. He could, I wont deny that but what happens when Kang and Ultron are taken out of this battle? In theory, I could say Madison could just alter Kangs armor DNA to reject him before we send him to Hell

Ultron is smarter than everyone on your team and will take control of your robot army and technology in a matter of moments. He will then take over your teammates and use them against your team.

This is going to happen after we upload the virus into Ultron?

·Interesting strategy you have going. The only problem is that even though Ultron was a copy of Hank's brainwave patterns, they are not the same person. Evident by the fact that Ultron is smarter than Earth's brightest minds, including people who are smarter than Pym himself.

Hmm..I wonder why Ultron thinks so highly of him then?

·An example of Ultron's superior intellect, duplicating the material that made Captain America's shield. A feat that no one has been able to do before. It was kind of obvious that you were going for a counter to technopathy and I knew the killer code was going to be brought up, and here is what I have to say:

·A technopath already tried making tech that was supposed to be "Ultron proof". It didn't work out. Ultron took control over it just as easily.

·Here is Ronan displaying 15 thousand Kree Sentries that haven been made to 'counter' Ultron's techno-organic virus. And here is Ultron controlling all of them, including the silly technopath who thought she could counter him.

Once again, any analysis on Ultron from Tony Stark or the Kree or the High Evolutionary mean nothing over the man who created him. Cuz in AI, he is God. If I have a problem with Gamma radiation I will go to Bruce Banner, not Tony Stark

The Ultron being used is from an alternate future, there is nothing to suggest that Pym's code would have any effect on him, or is even present in his coding to begin with. Also, a simple time travel back to the past by Kang could easily solve the problem. Also, with our own prep time, it could simply be willed away by Carina Walters.

The code was implanted in the beginning but was uploaded technically post Phalanx Ultron. The virus even said Ultron adapted and it adapted too. Im considering Ultron as incacipitated. I will deal with Carina Walters in part 2

Ultron, likewise, knows a lot about Hank, especially how to push his buttons. Hank, in nearly any encounter with Ultron, suffers from mental breakdown. Ultron, like any child, knows how to push his parent's buttons.

1-Your showings of Ultron and Hank are outdated in those scans. To me its like comparing original Iron Man armor with Bleeding Edge. There is a critical time plot line that has occured since those scans: like him merging with his temporal copy in AVengers Annual and the fact that he came back from Skrull world after being kidnapped. It got him more focused 2- We dont have indetail knowledge of each other. He isnt going to know Hank. I know how you will counter with said statement. How does Hank build the Ultron code? This is a best of your ability battle. The code he made to shut down Ultron was the best of his coding. I know Ultron is an AI robot. Hank Pym is an AI expert. Thus me not making the Ultron shutdown code would mean Im not to my best but power levels well beyond the OP

·Because any tech you have would be taken over by Ultron.

You guys are really try ignore the whole shut down Ultron code angle, huh

·Even when Ultron was dead in the aftermath of Age of Ultron, his programming still affected Vision. He is continuously upgrading. He literally evolved from an android, built from the parts of the original Human Torch android, to a sophisticated AI life form that is comprised of nanotech.

but it took Ultron awhile to do so....this keeping him in the incapacitated category?

·The strength of your robot is irrelevant, because it is technology in the end. The Phalanx have infected robots like the Super-Adaptoid. Once again you are using tech to try and counter us, which is impossible, given that we have the t/o virus, which assimilates and takes control of technology. The t/o virus would also infect and take over your bodies as well. It can infect people without them even knowing it

·The Phalanx is so virulent, that it managed to take over the entire Kree Empire (galaxy size empires we're talking about) in a matter of a few hours. They even managed to erect a forcefield that made it impossible to enter or leave Kree space. The t/o virus so potent that Richard Rider required eighty-three percent of the entire Nova Force in order to keep it in check. The Worldmind commented that a single moment of hesitation would allow the virus to take control again.

·Ultron during Annihilation Conquest has shown the capacity to teleport. Here are the Phalanx teleporting Gamora and Drax after Richard Rider. Here is Ultron teleporting to the High Evolutionary's base to capture Adam Warlock.

Are we just showing that Ultron is able to hack the Phalanx cuz there feats are moot to me since Im able to shut down Ultron

@boschepg: @higorm

Cuz it isnt random. Nowhere does it say random. We get 7 days prep for the battle. In those 7 we get 4 days to implement. If it was random than we wouldnt need prep. In this case,@thundergodswrath Im assuming we get basic knowledge of our opponents. Like Kang is a time pirate, Ultron is an AI robot, Ghost Rider is a demon. Nothing like kryptonite is Supermans weakness type stuff. In that case my think tank is running scenarios over and over again over such potential threats. Its what prep guys do

It is random. The rules says so. I'm not going to argue over a point that isn't debatable.

• Each team gets one week of prep
• Morals are off
• Fighting to the best of their abilities
• Both teams get 4 hours of prep (Can travel to any destination as long as one of their characters have been there)
• No extremely powerful artifacts
• BFR is allowed
• Win by team being defeated in any way ( incapitation, death, KO, or BFR )
• No knowledge on each other

No knowledge means random encounter.

Just to be clear, who are you deeming as your prep guys?

All of our people are prep guys, they are all helping with prep. Some are better with prep than others. It's mostly Ultron and Kang doing the heavy lifting, but everyone is pitching in.

Oh man, this is too easy. We are claiming the House of Mystery. The House of Mystery is a mobile home, as we have shown, that is between space and time. Created by Morpheous of the Endless. It can be moved into the city. Technically, Pym Space is connected to "doors" within the city. The HQ could be the size of a dime within the city and still be connected to city. If it will be simpler for you, we could say that the Pym Space is connected in the House of Mystery.

I'm not going to bother with this point. It's up to @thundergodswrath to decide what is considered legitimate to the rules or not. If you are really trying to argue being in another dimension counts as being in the battlefield, I could argue the same with Chronopolis. Chronopolis is connected to every timeline in existence.

actually, me and killemall decided against the omnipotent powers showings early on. Than this is fine with us regarding the Phalanx Uniforce scan. We are both showing our higher feats. We where disputing if you where actually claiming the Uni-force cuz it was with the Phalanx and not Ultron. I thought you were trying to 7degree us with the connection. I was also going to doubt stumbling across the Uni-force anyways. Are you challenging Void cuz I dont know much about her?

You should really discuss that with your partner, who's claiming that his Spartans run on reality warping/changing energies. I don't read Wildstorm, so I can't comment on the validity of his claim, but if you and killemall decided against such tactics, I don't know why your partner is bringing these things up.

2- we arent claiming to fight outside the arena since all our HQs can be placed into the battle field. the HoM is mobile. Chronopolis isnt

3a- it isnt relevent here, but when has Kang collapsed timelines? Immortus has but Kang?

3b-now you are claiming Immortus is Kang???

Chronopolis is connected to every reality in existence, so it doesn't need to be mobile. Kang can come and go from it as he pleases and open a door anywhere. He did this on the Blue Area of the Moon and has done this in the Fault. By your own logic, Pym space should be disqualified, since it's not mobile.

If you read the scans I posted, you would actually see that Kang knows what Immortus is planning to do.

The Forever Crystal is located within Kang's Chronopolis, it is his item. Immortus was planning on using it to destroy realities he didn't like. Kang doesn't do that, because he actually enjoys the divergent realities. It provides him things to conquer and things to do.

The main difference between Kang and Immortus is there differing morals. But given that the battle is morals-off, this difference is moot.

"He calls himself the Master of Time! Faugh! 'Gardener of Time' is more truthful! He prunes away the chronal branches deemed by others to be dangerous - reducing reality to a bloodless meadow! But such is not the way of warriors - of men! I say let it be a forest! Let it be a jungle! Let it be something we must strive against and conquer, whatever comes! Fight it! Kill it! Crush it!"

Though the Hearts durability isnt much, lol

Cap didn't actually destroy the heart. He can't destroy it.

This is what happens on the next page:

Didnt you just claim him as eventually becoming Immortus? All Im doing is showing if Immortus is Kangs future self, than Immortus understanding of time is the same as Kang. If Kang knows it than Immortus knows it. (note the scan you placed up about Immortus. He knew where Kang hid the Heart of Time cuz he was Kang. Every divergent timeline crossroads at Kang becoming Immortus (until Avengers Forever issue 12) Even Kang said, am I witnessing my own death, when he was seeing Immortus dying.

You answered your own question. They are not the same person because after Avengers Forever 12, Kang and Immortus become separate beings. They know the same things, because they were the same person, but it doesn't imply anything else. Kang actually has the collective knowledge of all other alternate Kangs, because after killing them, their knowledge went into his brain.

Mr Majestic can. HigorM has showed it/ Also, time displacements are handled by people not connected to the timeline (Limbo)

Yes, because Majestic already had a gun that nullfied time displacement right in his hands...

Without foreknowledge of that, the feat is moot.

Kang does this in battle on the fly??? He definitely preps it but it isnt clairvoyance. It just means Kang knows when he will get beat ;)

No, that is what Kang does with prep...

For example, in the Kang Dynasty story line, Kang knew that Ms. Marvel was the key factor in the Avengers defeating him, because her capacity to absorb energy is what destroyed his space ship. However, he took no action against it, because it's against his moral principal to manipulate the timeline to such an extent, that it grants him an automatic victory. He also knew that his own son saved Ms. Marvel from dying, but also chose not to act upon it.

Kang enjoys fighting and not using trickery. That is actually the main reason why he despises Immortus, because Immortus uses underhanded tactics to defeat people (such as stopping time and killing them, while they are frozen). Kang enjoys challenges and enjoys the actual battle.

However, since morals are off for this battle, Kang's own moral code will have little play in here. Instead, he would be using every underhanded method possible. Such as stabbing your team in the eyes when he pauses time.

Im not trying to justify Kangs failures. Just questioning your perception of Kang.

1- the shunt back in time and kill the mom theory is good in theory...for beginners, but we know you cant do that cuz of Kangs understanding of how time works. It wont allow it. 2- Also, Kang time manip doesnt effect the people outside of time/space

Kang can do that. He can do a lot of things. He chooses not to mess with the timestream like the Avengers do, because it's temperamental (evident by the fact of how the Avengers and X-men broke the space-time continuum). Anyways, I don't need to resort to such tactics, because the majority of your prep is invalid, because you are arguing under the assumption your team has knowledge of who they are fighting, which they don't.

Unless, thundergodswrath agrees with you on being able to use the House of Mysteries during the fight, the second statement is also pointless.

We have shown Majestic can walk out of time freeze. Also, the rules of time prevent in Hell realms or Limbo like areas.

These points have already been addressed, so I'm not going to do so again.

This is all theory. Also, anyone he summons worth wild are featless. He has to pretty much ask nicely if they arent that powerful

Kang has access to basically anyone in the timestream. He can even pluck mainstream characters from the timestream as well. It's not that hard to make up a reason to need their aid.

and if we seal Kang in a Hell seal? Can anyone on your team cast a counter spell?

Unless you can show me Constantine making a hell seal without prep, I don't see what is the point. Also, sending Kang to hell is pretty pointless, because Ghost Rider can go get him.

I have to ask you guys, if you can show Ultron can TO the Phalanx, and we show we can KO Ultron who can TO the phalanx, doesnt that make what you can do moot since we would have shut down the more dominate force on your team?

You have provided no scenario in which you are able to defeat Ultron. So yes, your point is moot.

1-I see what you are trying to do with Ultron. Point is, Ultron still refers to Hank as Father or God.

2-Why is Tony Stark's comments on Ultron mean anything in this fight? Hank Pym is the artificial intelligence master. Not Stark. I find it hard for people to actually believe the attempt and say Hank Pym didnt create Ultron. Here is Reed and Hank discussing that. You will find more scans of Ultron claiming he built Ultron than not.

1. What is the relevance of this? Hank is referred to as father, because he is Ultron's creator. Other than that, it implies nothing else. Because, other than being his creator, Hank has no control or power over what Ultron does. In nearly all of their encounters, Ultron smacks his father aside like a ragdoll and proceeds to verbally abuse him.

2. Why is Tony Stark's comment important? Because Tony Stark is one of the smartest men of Earth and he knows that Ultron is smarter than him. It's a testament to Ultron's intelligence.

What you are failing to realize is that your only shtick is that Hank building Ultron somehow implies that he knows much about Ultron. I already presented you with a scan that shows that, despite being Ultron's creator, Pym admits that Ultron evolved past his understanding.

Being the father of artificial intelligence is just a title and nothing else, because, feat wise, Ultron has built better AIs than Hank has (i.e. Alkhema, Jocasta, Vision, Victor Mancha).

This is still all theory. He could, I wont deny that but what happens when Kang and Ultron are taken out of this battle? In theory, I could say Madison could just alter Kangs armor DNA to reject him before we send him to Hell

Read what I posted. Madison Jeffries is a non-factor, because Kang can easily teleport an inhibitor collar on him and turn off his mutant powers. Also, judging from the scan, Madison needs to touch Kang in order to manipulate his armor, and explain to me how he would get close enough without having his head blown clean off.

This is going to happen after we upload the virus into Ultron?

Yes, because you guys clearly have the time to travel back in time to upload a virus into the newly built Ultron, then brainwash past Pym from knowing that a virus is present, and then travel back into the present to turn it on...

Hmm..I wonder why Ultron thinks so highly of him then?

Because Ultron is not stupid enough to leave a genius in his freaking lab lmao.

Once again, any analysis on Ultron from Tony Stark or the Kree or the High Evolutionary mean nothing over the man who created him. Cuz in AI, he is God. If I have a problem with Gamma radiation I will go to Bruce Banner, not Tony Stark.

Once again your arguing semantics. In AI, Hank is consider 'God', because he founded it. It does not imply that he's all-powerful. For example, Leo Szilard is the brains behind the very first atomic bomb, thus, he is the father of modern nuclear weapons. However, this doesn't mean that he could tank a nuclear blast. So it's erroneous to claim that Pym is anymore a God, than any other person who built something.

The code was implanted in the beginning but was uploaded technically post Phalanx Ultron. The virus even said Ultron adapted and it adapted too. Im considering Ultron as incacipitated. I will deal with Carina Walters in part 2

Once again, unless you have a future self traveling to your past self to warn you against a future threat, this point is moot.

We are also using a alternate-future version of Ultron, so you still have to prove that the virus is in his programming to begin with.

Pym didn't just upload the virus instantly. Did you forget the whole entire convoluted time travel plot that led to that point?

1-Your showings of Ultron and Hank are outdated in those scans. To me its like comparing original Iron Man armor with Bleeding Edge. There is a critical time plot line that has occured since those scans: like him merging with his temporal copy in AVengers Annual and the fact that he came back from Skrull world after being kidnapped. It got him more focused 2- We dont have indetail knowledge of each other. He isnt going to know Hank. I know how you will counter with said statement. How does Hank build the Ultron code? This is a best of your ability battle. The code he made to shut down Ultron was the best of his coding. I know Ultron is an AI robot. Hank Pym is an AI expert. Thus me not making the Ultron shutdown code would mean Im not to my best but power levels well beyond the OP.

How would Ultron not know his own creator? Like, seriously, what are you trying to say?

This is a random encounter, i.e. our teams have no prior knowledge of who we are fighting. We are not brainwashed into not knowing the faces of people we have already met. If that were the case, your entire strategy with Pym would be pointless because he wouldn't even know who Ultron was to begin with, and thus, wouldn't even know how to face him.

You are contradicting yourself heavily in this post, I'd advise you to stop.

As for the Ultron code, it was a code that was implemented prior to the creation of Ultron because his future self came back and warned him of what Ultron would do. That is pretty much as one-sided with prep as you can get. Without prior knowledge of who he is facing, how would Pym know to make the Ultron code to begin with?

You are arguing from a point of prior knowledge, which we don't have. So you better PM your partner and discuss actual legitimate strategies because the majority of your prep involves having knowledge of the contestants, which is not allowed.

So, I'm not going to discuss this Ultron code any further, because it's a illegitimate strategy and cannot be duplicated in this scenario.

I would like to also mention how Hank Pym's mind is already pretty delicate and he's prone to bouts of depression, seeing as that he suffers from a mental disorder. So what's to say that he wouldn't have one in the middle of battle?

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@killemall I left the Genis-Vell section for you, since I don't have enough knowledge of him to debate that point.

@omgomgwtfwtf: Not a problem but i will be a bit late when it comes to replying, only by Friday evening. Sorry.

Although i giggled when @boschepg mention Kang isnt Clairvoyent to know all this, well matter of fact is Genis is, he can see as well as show people their past, present and future, even left a skyfather King Thor in awe with his cosmic awareness. Will definitely get into that, and so does Carina btw :p

@omgomgwtfwtf

No knowledge on each other is as stated. Nowhere does it state the word random. It just means I dont know all about your life.

Im hoping everyone gets their stuff in before it closes. Wanted all the bullets on the floor. And Im hoping for you to use Genis claivoyance cuz then Im bringing up Constantines spell of cloaking which shields from omnipresence....so please bring that aspect

I would like to also mention how Hank Pym's mind is already pretty delicate and he's prone to bouts of depression, seeing as that he suffers from a mental disorder. So what's to say that he wouldn't have one in the middle of battle?

First I wanted to start off and say that we are all friendly here and just trying to prove points and sway voters. Much respect to you both. So that being said.....really??? You want to assume he is just going to have a manic depressive moment in the middle of our battle? How many times has that happened? Seems like a stretch

Chronopolis is connected to every reality in existence, so it doesn't need to be mobile. Kang can come and go from it as he pleases and open a door anywhere. He did this on the Blue Area of the Moon and has done this in the Fault. By your own logic, Pym space should be disqualified, since it's not mobile.

If you are trying to disqualify Pym space than thats fine. But Chronopolis is a city in Limbo. The House of Mystery can live within the real time and still do all its time/dream stuff. We can just use Pym space as a source of teleportation if you prefer

@boschepg: don't worry just because of the meme I will indeed bring on the Sentry for my next reply. He hehe then we can see whose hand is stronger.

Bosche i love you but when killemall says this even you should be worried. these 2 (bosche and killemall) are probably some of the best debaters on this site (id say top 4 at least) i rank them at 2 and 1 respectfully. this should be very interesting ill be keeping an eye out

@boschepg:

No knowledge on each other is as stated. Nowhere does it state the word random. It just means I dont know all about your life.

If you have no knowledge of something, then it happens, does it not become a random occurrence? Random Encounter and no Knowledge is basically the same. Both imply that you did not know that the battle was coming. It was unexpected.

Im hoping everyone gets their stuff in before it closes. Wanted all the bullets on the floor. And Im hoping for you to use Genis claivoyance cuz then Im bringing up Constantines spell of cloaking which shields from omnipresence....so please bring that aspect.

You have still yet to address which Constantine you are using. New-52 or Pre-52, but whatever.

First I wanted to start off and say that we are all friendly here and just trying to prove points and sway voters. Much respect to you both. So that being said.....really??? You want to assume he is just going to have a manic depressive moment in the middle of our battle? How many times has that happened? Seems like a stretch.

Not really, considering it has happened before. I'm assuming you don't know what Bipolar disorder is right? It's when people switch from a manic to depressive stage, or vice versa. Pym's entire history is riddled with mental issues, ranging from beating his wife, going crazy, forgetting who he is, etc. His mental state is so precarious that other people don't feel safe around him at certain times (one of the scans you posted already show this).

How often does his depressive moment come? Well, his last one just occurred in Avengers AI (scans already posted) and his previous one is at the end of Age of Ultron.

If you are trying to disqualify Pym space than thats fine. But Chronopolis is a city in Limbo. The House of Mystery can live within the real time and still do all its time/dream stuff. We can just use Pym space as a source of teleportation if you prefer

My point is that unless you actually ask thundergodswrath what is allowed, I'm not going to indulge this point anymore. By your logic, I guess it would be okay that Kang sits around in Damoclesbase and just destroys the entire battlefield.

@killemall@boschepg@higorm

Just face it, Pym has no counter to the dreaded awkward hug!

@omgomgwtfwtf: @higorm@killemall:

Part 2

·GHOST RIDER

-

Which version of Constantine is being used? You are using feats from both Pre-52 and New-52. 2. Constaine must have defense against Ghost Rider as he had defense against Spectre - thats a feat from New 52 constantine, not sure which version he is using but clearing that out would help because he has used pre 52 version as well. Constantine meeting with Spectre (which takes place in Constantine # 2) is totally out of context, he neither fought nor defended himself against Spectre, Spectre asked him to justify his actions.

As far as I know, the history of Constantine is pretty much the same. Even the DC co-producer said so. There are some small tweaks which I can show when questioned, but outside of his Vertigo character being like almost 60 and new52 being younger he said: Constantine in the Vertigo universe is in his 60s, and what you have in the DC Universe is a character who is markedly younger. It's something where if you looked at him when he first appeared, he hasn't aged a day. Go figure! [Laughs] You can come up with some story reason for that if you want, but we like to think he's just been waiting for us to bring him back in the DCU.

• (link provided)

I am at a loss to how that shows any defense against Spectre, or how we are to infer he would automatically have defense against soul burning from Ghost Rider.

Its not. Its showing that Constantine has faced much higher beings than the Ghost Rider. You guys wanted to know if Constantine has faced off against people who can attack souls and I showed the FotF and the Spectre. The Eternal Darkness. Im showing a relation that with prep, 7 days, he usually has things thought out. You partner, Killemall, has even said that Constantine with prep is above Thanos. We are just proving that Constantine would naturally prep Ghost Rider since we probably know that he is a demon. (link provided)

#27 Posted by Killemall (16281 posts) - 2 years, 1 month ago - Show Bio Without prep I think Dr. Stange could win, with prep Constantine is close to Thanos =) #33 Posted by Killemall (16281 posts) - 2 years, 1 month ago - Show Bio @Morpheus_ said:@Killemall said: I don't agree that John > Thanos in prep, but John did manipulate God himself in Jenkins' run.Actually i would have rather agreed John > thanos, what i dont agree is by a massive margin.

We could BFR Ghost Rider - assuming the other teleports dont just go and get him back, Ghost Rider himself can teleport across both space and time just fine.

Just wondering, how would your other teleporters know where the people we can BFR is? at least our team is connected to the House of Mystery if you guys got teleported to Hell, Heaven, or Pym space? Your just supposed to know? Im assuming through Genis? Does his stuff work in Hell/Heaven realms? (Im asking)

Futhermore, pretty much everyone in your team has a soul, any particular defense against Alexandra simply burning every one soul / sin and leaving them as a drooling zombies.

Robots have souls?

Lets turn it around, what stopping me from BFRing your entire team into Hell, specially if we take Constantine out first (i dont see how not, he doesnt have durability to tank GR soul burning attack, we have both pre cog as well as teleportation to teleport him out of the protective circle)

Would our team just stand there and make you do it seeing as we have 7 days to prep and 4 days to implement? Can you guys go to Hell realms, outside of Ghost Rider?

Has she ever fought anyone with a nanosecond reaction time - No, Ghost Rider has never fought anyone with a nanosecond reaction time.

glad you guys mentioned it and not us

Lack of speed, to some extent can easily be countered through other means like flooding the area with soul eating insects, something done in this very own instance, and something done in a different instance just as well (The first set of scans of country wide soul burning is from Ghost Rider Vol 7 # 3, this instance is from Ghost Rider Volume 7 # 5)

and they are getting past a seal spell how?

The soul burning works on Area of Effect? Must to close to tag them? - Yes it does work on Area of Effect, but the attack was fairly large, that burnt out entire souls on a country wide effect.

and we believe that Constantine can protect us from it, the House of Mystery can protect us from it, and maybe even Majestic or Pym to an extent.

How will she tag someone a lot faster than her? - Well first the only one in your team faster than her would be Mr. Majestic, if he somehow escapes after all the soul burning insects distracting him, or a whole armies of Ghost Rider distracting him (i showed this in the last reply didnt think a need to repost it but will do if you want), the rest dont have speed advantage, so yeah if Mr. Majestic somehow escapes a massive country wide AOE attack, something he has never expected (when simultaneously having his brain synopsis messed by an omniversal telepath), the rest are hardly going to escape this fate.

As shown before Constatine has prepped for Flash. Not only do we have the strongest, fastest person on the block, feats has shown Constantine has prepped for speed, moving at speed force level. I think that trumps any speed mention you guys bring. But of course it sound like you guys expect us to be holding hands singing Kumbaya.

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Constantine can avoid the attack with a magic circle ? - I would assume it would be pretty hard to think when your brain synopsis is being messed up by Genis. Even then you think its feasible for Contantine to think about the attack, draw a circle to protect him, when he all of a sudden faces an opponent he doesnt even know? Even then if we assume Contantine somehow does do this, anything stopping Genis , or Carina simply teleporting him outside the magic circle? Lastly, in response to how is Genis going to know Contantine would build a circle to protect him, thats what Genis's cosmic awareness allows to do, see things before they even happen. Here he sees that a couple of guys are going to open fire in the future, appears there before it happens and stop it.

And we shall say that usually fore-knowledge of prep tactics before the 7 week prep is usually shunned upon, meaning know Genis has to relate the process to the other team members? Constantine has cloaked his self from all knowing beings before and the House of Mystery was made by Morpheous, an abstract being himself of the Dream. Who said Constantine has to draw the circle. I have millions of ants crawling around that could draw it for Constantine. There are rules to magic. As shown before Hank knows that. All it is is a symbol which magic is channeled? Hank has used this techinque to fool Ultron. If you read the scans is a story of possible strategy. Prep-ants-magic seals.

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Also, I find it kind of fallacious to claim that Constantine trumped the Presence, when it's impossible to trump an Omnipotent. That would be the definition of hyperbole.Constantine, rather, told the Presence that sending him to Hell would be a mistake, and the Presence agreed with him on that part.

He made God do something he didnt want to do cuz of the scenario. I consider that a win. Its more a feat of accomplishment than anything else cuz Con going to God in this battle wouldnt be allowed and straight unfair PIS here. Just showing he has done it before

We can teleport to hell so Kang's ability wont work, cool, we can send a god like Ghost Rider to hell, where , without morals blocks their power they are extermely powerful. Alexendra nearly killing Mephisto in Hades (Hell) And here is Jhonny Blaze, another Ghost Rider, who just killed Blackheart, then hell lord, and took over Hell.Even if we assume Kang's power wont work in Hades, no one else has the limitation, and Ghost Rider actually gets a lot more powerful there. Doesnt really harm us. 3. Sending Kang to hell would fail because Ghost Rider can traverse dimensions and get him, and from there feed on the power of Hell to become stronger.

Im not trying to knock your feats of Mephisto and Blackheart, but as stated Con has trumped the Eternal Darkness, which is the Shadowland in DC and the Presence. Hank Pym has incapacitated Chthon, a being above Mephisto and Blackheart, since he is 1st tier magic in same as Gaea and Set. Mephisto and Blackheart is below that at 2nd tier and below.Its a good feat but Black Panther has defeated Mephisto with prep. Its still a good feat but on pure magic Chthon is above Mephisto according to lore, incase readers dont know that. Mephisto has more feats but Chthon more powerful by lore

And also as previously stated, how does Ghost Rider know where to get Kang?

Its not like Ghost Rider's power are as easily countered as they affect souls rather than physical body, well unless you are an ancient demon and stuffs..

·CARINA WALTERS

-

·Carina is an Elder and not vulnerable to her body being disintregiated or being killed and she is also perfectly capable of resurrecting the dead, and Ghost Rider cant be killed by physical means.

Constantine isnt physical means

Hank's Bendis PIS virus, shut down Ultron, no problem he gets replace with a different reality counterpart. Carina has replaced a dead Striker with a different reality counterpart just fine.

What happens if we take out Carina Walters too at the same time?

Pym's pocket dimension is not immune to reality warping, as explained by Killemall.it - well here's Korvac teleporting right inside Infinite Manson just fine. 6. And here is Karina using her power just fine in Infinite Mansion

I believe this is an out of context scan of what you have provided with Carina. I will await Killemalls rebuttal but I do believe it is out of context. The scans I will show explaining how the Infinite Mansion works is from Mighty Avengers 24-36. It shows Hank stating resistance to reality warping. It did. Than they had to disconnect the Infinite Mansion from Pym Space cuz of Jocasta. They then discovered the Overspace cuz Hank didnt want to get disconnected from the being he thought was his wife, the Wasp. They then connected the Infinite Mansion with Carina in Over Space.

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They changed point of location and power source. Of course reality warping worked in the scan you showed cuz they connected the Mansion to a reality warper from that point. And than Korvac shows up cuz we all know he can sense his powers through Time and Dimension. In this battle you have Carina so we cant have connected the Infinite Mansion to her, thus preventing reality warping. I thought Avengers Academy stunk so you can rebuke me on this thought but here is Carina stating that she has Korvac's power but to lesser extent. Since Korvac was too powerful for this tourney

Here is Hazmat in Avengers Academy stating to Korvac to beat him with antimatter and even gives another reference of how it beat him.

Am I to assume that anit-matter since it effected Korvac would also effect Carina?

Cuz you know who also has anti-matter bombs...we do in Reed Richards

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and since we are running short on time, we know anitmatter effects Sentry, just to give you a heads up

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oI don't remember Dr. Doom or Reed ever reaching temporal Limbo. If you have a scan please post it, because temporal Limbo is different from other Limbos. Marvel uses the same names for many places, so there might be confusion at to which 'Limbo' Reed and Doom have gone to. The Avengers could only access Chronopolis (Kang's base), with Kang's time machine. Chronopolis is located in between Limbo and the Timestream, and has access to every timeline/reality in existence, because it is simultaneously connected to each of them.

·I will look for it but since we are under the gun on time you may not get it in time. But I will find it

Once again, the majority of your prep involves having intimate knowledge of the opponent beforehand. So, while impressive, it is moot in this scenario.

As for Reed's anti-matter bombs, please, Kang has weapons like that too.

He can even go full Godzilla mode and just start wtf stomping the entire area.

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@omgomgwtfwtf said:

Not really, considering it has happened before. I'm assuming you don't know what Bipolar disorder is right? It's when people switch from a manic to depressive stage, or vice versa. Pym's entire history is riddled with mental issues, ranging from beating his wife, going crazy, forgetting who he is, etc. His mental state is so precarious that other people don't feel safe around him at certain times (one of the scans you posted already show this).

How often does his depressive moment come? Well, his last one just occurred in Avengers AI (scans already posted) and his previous one is at the end of Age of Ultron.

If you are trying to disqualify Pym space than thats fine. But Chronopolis is a city in Limbo. The House of Mystery can live within the real time and still do all its time/dream stuff. We can just use Pym space as a source of teleportation if you prefer

My point is that unless you actually ask thundergodswrath what is allowed, I'm not going to indulge this point anymore. By your logic, I guess it would be okay that Kang sits around in Damoclesbase and just destroys the entire battlefield.

actually I work in the mental health field so Im fully aware of bipolar disorder and bipolar affective disorder. I would show you my license to prove it but Im afraid of fraud. My best friend also suffers from it and mainly it surfaces around the male 30s and up in high stress situation. With medical regiment like Lamictal, he hasnt had an episode in 4 years

Im just saying I know the disorder. Im not taking offense to the comment or anything

@omgomgwtfwtf

Speed is irrelevant when one of my team members can freely manipulate time. Here is Kang and Immortus fighting in Avengers Forever.

How can you claim speed is irrelevant if Kang possess zero feats in terms of reaction speed. How is Kang going to use time manipulation against someone he doesn´t know, who possess at least nanosecond reaction speed and a genius level intellect? Kang was tagged by Thor before, more than one once, and Thor is nowhere near Majestic in terms of speed. Even Captain America manage to land hits upon him before, how is he avoiding Mr. Majestic in this scenario (morals off)? Show me a scan of Kang being able to freeze a powerhouse with the level of speed that Majestros can display without much effort while in a morals on state.

Next scans shows Kang being hit by Thor (who is arguably much slower than Majestic) on several different ocasions. Why Kang didn't just used his freezing time powers to stop him instead of keep tanking his blows?

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See? Kang is tagged pretty damm often!

Not to mention that as already stated before, Mr. Majestic already manage to ignore the effects of time manipulation. It doesn´t work on him, considering that he suffered an attempt of time-loop, but as soon as he's aware of it, he turns to be immune. So Kang would be just giving Majestros a chance to be severely striked after he realize time manipulation won´t work against him.

1) The scan you presented shows him using microwaves to accomplish that feat. He also went past the shielding of Eradicator's armor in order to that. The problem with that is, he can't duplicate that trick with Ultron.

1. Majestic doesn´t need to pierce his armor with the heat vision. Considering that Ultron possess and utilizes visual information, he can just blast messages in the form of light into his eyes. Another option is to use Spartan (who is also faster than most of your team considering he was able to keep up with Majestros in first place) to teleport pieces of his armor away so he can work on him just fine. A third option would be use the creation blades, considering they are pretty standard for him, so imagine with prep time. Majestros always carries a Kheram Blade in his shoulder pads, Majestic can pretty much slice and dice Ultron countless times if he want using his speed. The Creation Blades can cut through anything. They proved to be dangerous weapon ever constructed.

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The swords ability to cut through anything has been put to the test. They've easily cut through the near-invulnerable skin of Mr. Majestic and even the mad reality-warping Tao. In the case of Tao, they hurt him when that should not have been possible and even though he controlled reality itself, when he was impaled with the swords he couldn't access his full powers and was barely able to stand and speak until they were removed.

The swords also seem to be very durable. The shards were found in a volcano and when Majestic, impaled by the swords, fell into a volcano, they were retrieved undamaged.

2) The Ultron we are using is composed of a vibranium-adamantium shell, the same composition that made Captain America's shield. Captain America's shield is known for its ability to absorb impact and energy.

I would like to see him try to absorb an impact from a creation blade. If a high-end reality warper couldn't avoid the damage, I don´t see why Ultron should fair any better. Not to mention that during the Annihilation Conquest saga, Ultron was defeated in the end by a special blade as well. So that´s a feat perfectly capable to be replicated by my team here.

@omgomgwtfwtf said:

Frankly, Peter is leagues above Majestic in terms of brilliance. Not to mention that Maj can do a lot more in less time. Not to mention that I´ve already presented diferrent ways to neutralize him, using sheer reaction time speed get pass through his armor. Ultron has been affected before since his internal mechanisms are less durable than his outer shell. Not to mention that his Adamantium forms have proven to be vulnerable to molecular rearrangement devices and the metal-destabilizing ore, known as Vibranium ("anti-metal"). Devices that my team is aware of it´s existence. With Hank Pym and Reed Richards knowledge together with Majestic and Jeffries fast employment, my team can recreate said devices to work against him once again.

@omgomgwtfwtf said:

Why it wouldn´t work? Both Majestic and Spartan are countless times faster than most of your team, heck, their speed together is leagues above your whole time combined. Not to mention there´s several Spartans flying arround the battlefield, blasting your team with bio-molecular energy, teleporting, not to mention that they can project holographic images and they are all packing plasma shields which are capable of generating fields of plasma energy designed to protect himself and others and repel attacks against him. The field can protect him from up to 90 tons of force from both physical attacks and equivalent energy ones as well. The Spartan with void powers can tap into cosmic energy to use his teleportation. Through Void's power of teleportation he has access to Otherspace (a realm of limitless energy) which only specific beings with highly specific gear can entry. According to Majestic himself who is one of the few capable of entering this realm, Otherspace is a place where reality is variable and basic existence can never be proven. He traveled into Otherspace to collect a sleeping star which he would use to power a robotic duplicate of his son. So as you can see my team have access to an unlimited source of energy and also a place where Spartan or Majestic can BFR Ultron to, from where he wouldn´t have ways to come back.

As for the Creation Blades being able to cut through the Vibranium-Adamantium alloy shell of Ultron, that is something that should be left to the voters, because it's really the question of "what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object".

As you wish, but I believe the community here is pretty much aware of the creation blades capabilities, and last time I´ve checked it was estabilished that the creation blades are superior to adamantium, vibranium and even uru. So let the people decide :)

@omgomgwtfwtf said:

That´s still not enough. The Kherubim technology is far more advanced than standard Earth tech. They simply manage to create a machine that turns dreams into freakin reality.

I guess you are ignoring the part where it has infected Gamora, Drax, Nova, Super-Adaptoid, and Adam Warlock.

Still, no one near the level of speed or intellect in comparison to Majestros. He can neutralize Ultron before he manage to start the infection.

So to say that it's "not so impressive" is fallacious.

It isn't fallacious when you are dealing with a genius level powerhouse acting in a morals off state with enough time to prepare for a battle being aided be other top prep geniuses, who already manage to display if not superior, equal feats in relation to technology prowess.

I have already refuted your other points before as well. Madison Jeffries is useless because his powers cannot control techno-organic beings. Majestic's reflexes are pointless versus a time manipulator (just ask Zoom). Ultimate Richards though very intelligent himself can't hope to beat both Kang and Ultron himself.

MJ won´t play the control game, he is a tool for a master plan. As already explained, Majestic can react faster than anyone on your team, and has proven to be immune to time manipulation. Also, Reed Richards isn´t fighting alone here so he's not fighting all by himself against your team, where did you get that from? This is a team battle, not one on one match ups.

Funny that you speak about time, when we have Kang the Conqueror.

Again with that? I feel like we are going in circles right now. There is so many options to counter Kang time manipulation, starting with Majestic immunity, the ability to access other dimensions, creation of specific devices to counter it, choose one..

Kang fights other people who can regularly time travel as well. His time travel tech is superior to other time travelers. Dr. Doom has a time machine, but he doesn't fair any better versus Kang because of it.

We are not arguing about who as better

Kang could simply BFR your team to temporal limbo, a place outside of space and time. The only people who can access it is Kang and Immortus, because their tech are the only ones capable of leaving and entering a place with no time.

I doubt it would work against our team considering we have access to other dimensions as well, either by magic, tech devices or cosmic manipulation.

killemall already addressed this point. You haven't named any specific place where my team can't get to.

I just did. The place is called Otherspace, take a look again.

I believe although Majestic isn´t on the same level as Ultimate Reed Richards or Hank Pym, he's almost there. Considering all the things he has accomplished, invented or building new technologies from scratch in a matter of seconds, for example: a top computer that scans every computer in 73 different dimensions (already posted first page), created an armor powerful enough to boost his superhuman powers, and also built a replacement Sun with his bare hands and heat vision. But none of that compares to this feat, which is related to the Otherspace, Majestic did the impossible, well nothing seems to be impossible for him:

@higorm:

How can you claim speed is irrelevant if Kang possess zero feats in terms of reaction speed. How is Kang going to use time manipulation against someone he doesn´t know, who possess at least nanosecond reaction speed and a genius level intellect? Kang was tagged by Thor before, more than one once, and Thor is nowhere near Majestic in terms of speed. Even Captain America manage to land hits upon him before, how is he avoiding Mr. Majestic in this scenario (morals off)? Show me a scan of Kang being able to freeze a powerhouse with the level of speed that Majestros can display without much effort while in a morals on state.

I don't particularly care to repeat myself again, but I already showed you why Kang doesn't use time manipulation to freeze time and kill his enemies. It's not within his morals to do so. Kang enjoys actually fighting his opponents, not employing underhanded methods, because it goes against his principles. I have already posted numerous scans of this.

He is fully capable of manipulating the timestream as he sees fit, but he tends to not do that, because it's an easy victory.

However, what you fail to realize, is that the OP given me free reign with Kang's abilities because morals are off. With morals off, Kang won't care how underhanded his tactics are, because he won't know the concept of shame or guilt.

Here is Kang exclaiming how he hates fighting time battles with Immortus, because he finds it cowardly (directly copied and pasted from my last response):

"Battling between heartbeats - our killing fields the space within a single moment. Ah, for a straightforward battlefield again, for war as it is meant to be, army against army - and not this creeping between seconds."

Here is Kang stopping a time freeze that Immortus employed to kill Rick Jones, while time was frozen in place (I have already posted these scans as well, but it seems they are either being ignored or forgotten):

"He gestures and in the blue area of the moon, time stops. Trapped between one moment and the next, all activity ceases - the researchers, the technicians, the guards - even the bubbles in the Supreme Intelligence's tank hover in place, rising not so much as a micron -"

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Kang the Conqueror can do the exact same thing, because he also wields the same tech as Immortus.

"There, I chanced across the stronghold of Immortus, whose relation to me I was unaware of at the time...And whose apparent corpse I found at his seat of power. I claimed his devices as my own...and, quickly mastering them..."

He doesn't employ these tactics, while in character, because he hates treacherous behavior. He hates treacherous behavior so much, that he killed his own son, after his son use a time freeze ability to free him from prison. But given that morals are off, Kang won't have any problem using such tactics.

Silver Centurion: "We've projected a null-time field around this mountain, and are extracting you between heartbeats."

Kang: "You should NOT have COME Marcus! I was content to stay here - to allow events to play out -!"

Later on:

Kang: "But you betrayed me. You became infatuated with the Avenger Warbird, and sought to help her, to prove yourself to her. You saved her life - helped her infiltrate the so-called Master's base unseen. And you thought it was nothing. It was the key, however - the one piece that gave the Avengers their ultimate victory. And still, I would have forgiven you - if you had come to me. Admitted to your actions. I gave you chances. But you lied...And Kang the Conqueror cannot tolerate a traitor in his camp. Not if he is to go on."

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Not to mention that as already stated before, Mr. Majestic already manage to ignore the effects of time manipulation. It doesn´t work on him, considering that he suffered an attempt of time-loop, but as soon as he's aware of it, he turns to be immune. So Kang would be just giving Majestros a chance to be severely striked after he realize time manipulation won´t work against him.

He did not ignore the effects of time manipulation. You are misrepresenting your own scans. He was told that time was repeating and used his time-nullifying gun to disable the time flux.

He had a temporal stasis generator in the palms of his hand. He doesn't have one for this scenario.

Also, I'm not placing your team in a time loop, I'm literally freezing time, to the point where your team can't move, because the flow of time has stopped.

1. Majestic doesn´t need to pierce his armor with the heat vision. Considering that Ultron possess and utilizes visual information, he can just blast messages in the form of light into his eyes. Another option is to use Spartan (who is also faster than most of your team considering he was able to keep up with Majestros in first place) to teleport pieces of his armor away so he can work on him just fine. A third option would be use the creation blades, considering they are pretty standard for him, so imagine with prep time. Majestros always carries a Kheram Blade in his shoulder pads, Majestic can pretty much slice and dice Ultron countless times if he want using his speed. The Creation Blades can cut through anything. They proved to be dangerous weapon ever constructed.

1. What would blasting information into his eyes accomplish? Black Panther has shoved his vibranium knives in Ultron's face and all it amounted to was mild discomfort. I honestly don't see what is the point of this. You're not dealing with one Ultron, you are dealing with thousands of them. How would you know which to target?

2. Once again, this is something for voters to decide over. I don't see why the Creation Blades would somehow be able to penetrate the composition that makes Captain America's shield, when it takes Skyfather level beings to break it. Also, the destruction of one single Ultron wouldn't amount to much.

3. What would teleporting accomplish? What you teleport out, I could teleport back in.

The swords ability to cut through anything has been put to the test. They've easily cut through the near-invulnerable skin of Mr. Majestic and even the mad reality-warping Tao. In the case of Tao, they hurt him when that should not have been possible and even though he controlled reality itself, when he was impaled with the swords he couldn't access his full powers and was barely able to stand and speak until they were removed.

Semantics still. The Human Torch was able to hurt the Marquis of Death, despite the fact that he was a reality warper capable of destroying realities with a thought. Does that someone how imply that he can hurt something composed of Adamantium or break Captain America's shield? No, not really.

I'm tired of debating this same point over. The voters can pick whose points they find more believable.

The swords also seem to be very durable. The shards were found in a volcano and when Majestic, impaled by the swords, fell into a volcano, they were retrieved undamaged.

Captain America's shield has taken hits from Human Torch's nova blasts. So it's really not that impressive.

I would like to see him try to absorb an impact from a creation blade. If a high-end reality warper couldn't avoid the damage, I don´t see why Ultron should fair any better. Not to mention that during the Annihilation Conquest saga, Ultron was defeated in the end by a special blade as well. So that´s a feat perfectly capable to be replicated by my team here.

Ultron was not using an adamantium shell in Annihilation Conquest. Also, there were factors leading up to Quasar's ability to kill him. One of them being that Ultron was unable to leave his current body because Warlock's non-aggressive techno-organic form was preventing him from body jumping.

Earlier, when the High Evolutionary caused a star to go supernova, it did very little to actually stop Ultron. He simply just body jumped into another body and blackmailed High Evolutionary into working for him. The High Evolutionary was so scared of Ultron that he had to teleport away, but even then Ultron found him.

Frankly, Peter is leagues above Majestic in terms of brilliance. Not to mention that Maj can do a lot more in less time. Not to mention that I´ve already presented diferrent ways to neutralize him, using sheer reaction time speed get pass through his armor. Ultron has been affected before since his internal mechanisms are less durable than his outer shell. Not to mention that his Adamantium forms have proven to be vulnerable to molecular rearrangement devices and the metal-destabilizing ore, known as Vibranium ("anti-metal"). Devices that my team is aware of it´s existence. With Hank Pym and Reed Richards knowledge together with Majestic and Jeffries fast employment, my team can recreate said devices to work against him once again.

Like your partner, you are arguing from a point of prior knowledge. We have no prior knowledge of each other per OP's rules. So everything you just said is pointless. I would like to remind you that Anti-Metal Vibranium is indiscriminate in what it affects, so by using it, you are going to destroy all your own tech as well.

Also, the old damaging Ultron's internal parts shtick is a weakness that he has overcome already. Just like how he's not affected by phasing anymore. Same tricks don't work twice on Ultron.

Here is Scarlet Witch's hex powers failing against Ultron, instead it powers him up. He is also able to grab Mjolnir mid-swing and overpower Thor.

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Why it wouldn´t work? Both Majestic and Spartan are countless times faster than most of your team, heck, their speed together is leagues above your whole time combined. Not to mention there´s several Spartans flying arround the battlefield, blasting your team with bio-molecular energy, teleporting, not to mention that they can project holographic images and they are all packing plasma shields which are capable of generating fields of plasma energy designed to protect himself and others and repel attacks against him. The field can protect him from up to 90 tons of force from both physical attacks and equivalent energy ones as well. The Spartan with void powers can tap into cosmic energy to use his teleportation. Through Void's power of teleportation he has access toOtherspace (a realm of limitless energy) which only specific beings with highly specific gear can entry. According to Majestic himself who is one of the few capable of entering this realm, Otherspace is a place where reality is variable and basic existence can never be proven. He traveled into Otherspace to collect a sleeping star which he would use to power a robotic duplicate of his son. So as you can see my team have access to an unlimited source of energy and also a place where Spartan or Majestic can BFR Ultron to, from where he wouldn´t have ways to come back.

It wouldn't work because of the following reasons:

1) Speed is completely irrelevant when my team can freely manipulate time. Speed is defined by time and when time is mines to control, speed is pointless.

For example, Zoom is faster than everyone because he can freely manipulate time. Kang can do the same thing basically, and with morals off, he will be doing it.

2) Ultron who control your Spartans pretty quick with the usage of the T/O virus and his own technopathic abilities.

3) BFR'ing one Ultron isn't going to stop the thousands of others which are flying around. Likewise, Kang can BFR your team to places where time and space don't exist, like Purgatory and Limbo.

That´s still not enough. The Kherubim technology is far more advanced than standard Earth tech. They simply manage to create a machine that turns dreams into freakin reality.

The level of tech is pretty irrelevant, since Ultron has no trouble controlling tech that is more advanced than Earth's. Like I said, even the High Evolutionary was surprised Ultron was capable of such a feat. So I would advise you not to underestimate his technopathy on the grounds that your tech is superior than Earth's, because that hasn't stopped Ultron in the past.

Still, no one near the level of speed or intellect in comparison to Majestros. He can neutralize Ultron before he manage to start the infection.

You haven't shown me any reasons as to why the virus wouldn't turn him into a t/o zombie, like everyone else.

It isn't fallacious when you are dealing with a genius level powerhouse acting in a morals off state with enough time to prepare for a battle being aided be other top prep geniuses, who already manage to display if not superior, equal feats in relation to technology prowess.

Except that your entire prep team requires knowledge of who they are fighting in order to make counters. Without prior knowledge, what kind of prep can they amass that would be a threat to me and killemall's team? Ultron and Kang plan for world domination on a daily basis. It's how their minds operate. Reed and Pym don't operate on those type of scales and won't know what to do versus an opponent they have no prior knowledge of.

Me and Killemall's prep was simple, we amass an army and begin to wreck. Your prep is just to counter us, which isn't happening per OP's rules.

MJ won´t play the control game, he is a tool for a master plan. As already explained, Majestic can react faster than anyone on your team, and has proven to be immune to time manipulation. Also, Reed Richards isn´t fighting alone here so he's not fighting all by himself against your team, where did you get that from? This is a team battle, not one on one match ups.

There is nothing your team can do because our team are comprised of people who would make your team cry. Technology versus a technopath, speed vs time manipulator, etc.

Again with that? I feel like we are going in circles right now. There is so many options to counter Kang time manipulation, starting with Majestic immunity, the ability to access other dimensions, creation of specific devices to counter it, choose one..

We are going in circles because you insist that Kang can't stop time, when he has done so before. Majestic is not immune to time stoppage, the ability to access other dimensions is a skill that several people on our team can do, creating specific devices to counter cannot be done on the fly, without prior knowledge.

I really dislike repeating myself and this is the last time I'm doing so. Without prior knowledge of what our team, your team can't hope to make counter strategies during prep. It amounts to cheating.

I just did. The place is called Otherspace, take a look again.

I believe although Majestic isn´t on the same level as Ultimate Reed Richards or Hank Pym, he's almost there. Considering all the things he has accomplished, invented or building new technologies from scratch in a matter of seconds, for example: a top computer that scans every computer in 73 different dimensions (already posted first page), created an armor powerful enough to boost his superhuman powers, and also built a replacement Sun with his bare hands and heat vision. But none of that compares to this feat, which is related to the Otherspace, Majestic did the impossible, well nothing seems to be impossible for him:

The Otherspace, from the scans you posted, just seem to be another dimension, and there is nothing to suggest that Kang couldn't leave, given that he regularly accesses places where the concepts of time and space don't exist.

@killemall: @higorm: @omgomgwtfwtf:

It doesnt have to be intimate knowledge. We have 7 days of prep. We have defined comic geniuses. I know its been a point of contention about what we have to prep for but even the basic knowledge of your team is all we need. As stated before, why do we have 7 days prep if its random?

• Each team gets one week of prep
• Morals are off
• Fighting to the best of their abilities

The basic knowledge of a time traveler, AI robot, demon biker, powerhouse, cosmic guy, and reality warper is pretty much as basic as it gets. Our team wont care what time you go to sleep or who you have on your facebook page. With basic knowledge and situation provided, we are going to prep with the best battle scenarios available we can think of.If we know we are going into a gun fight we arent going to bring a knife. We are going to use those 7 days to bring the best gun to the battle. And its only logical that our team would design a better way to eliminate your gun. We believe that our team has related knowledge in the fields you guys are bringing and thus are bringing its best to our abilities counter such feats

Majestic is a military mastermind. Our team isnt just going to stand out there face to face against your team like in the archaic days of war cuz we wouldnt match up. Like modern warfare has evolved into, you drop your heavy stuff and let your infantry troops follow. The more you can cripple their communications and points of transport even better

That leads us to the basic plan of our offense just to state it:

BASIC PLAN OF OFFENSE:

-eliminate your big guns (basic theory)

-make enough tech to have as an opening salvo. (our robots: Spartans, Sentinels, Box armor). Cover your tech and philosphy. Much like when US dropped the a-bomb on Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Strategically those points had no strategic value. The capital was Tokyo and former Kyoto. They drop the a-bomb in out lining areas incase it didnt go off. Easier to get back incase it dont work. This way we virus all our tech

-drop the biggest area clearer in your arsenal in the anti-matter bombs

-than you follow up containment with (Spartans, bio bombs, and magic fields cuz if tech didnt get them the magic aspect has to be covered)

-unleash the next heavy hitter in Majestic, the undisputed strongest fastest guy here (speed rate at 6x10^12) covering (8.2x10^22) with another wave of tech

it basically goes like this

thats the basics of it and just wanted to place it out there incase someone reads this thread and wonders how we attack. My connection is acting up, I guess cuz we are about to get slammed with snow.

@boschepg:

I'm not going to debate over a point that is written in stone.

• Each team gets one week of prep
• Morals are off
• Fighting to the best of their abilities
• Both teams get 4 hours of prep (Can travel to any destination as long as one of their characters have been there)
• No extremely powerful artifacts
• BFR is allowed
• Win by team being defeated in any way ( incapitation, death, KO, or BFR )
• No knowledge on each other

I just saw this. Peter Parker???

Peter Parker isnt in the top of geniuses. He might make top 10. Dont get me wrong, he is smart but not on the level of Reed, Hank and Majestic. We know Hank is 7. Doom, Banner and Reed are in the top 3

@omgomgwtfwtf: @boschepg: @higorm: Alright since i am home for a while lets reply now before i go back to work again. I honestly think you guys are pretty drastically understimating our team if you think Carina is the only one capable of resurrecting people.But i digress, lets get started.

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1. We can use house of mystery and remain away from being directly attacked.

Commendable strategy, but 1 problem, that still counts as BFRing yourself from the battle field. If such tactic is allowed then our team isnt helpless in it as @omgomgwtfwtf pointed out, furthermore, the moment you enter the area its opens up an avenue for Genis to know the entire history of your character.

Here is an instance where Genis goes to Asgard, is confronted by 2 primordial giants, and Genis thanks to his cosmic awareness knows all of their history (of 2 beings he has never met) and shows them to King Thor.

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How does this help you say, well i can know everything about your team, where they were born, who their father were etc, and given Genis is also a telepath, anything stopping Genis from directly communicating this to Kang, so he can travel back and you know kill you when you are young or kill your parents?

Taking yourself out of the battle field isnt going to help you in the least.

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2. Robots dont have brain, what is Genis going to do to them

Nothing let Ultron control them, you havent actually came up with a legitimate strategy for it, your first plan was to infect Ultron with Bendis PIS Virus, even if that somehow works Carina can replace Ultron. Second was Majestic somehow re-writing Ultron's code, even if somehow that works Carina can still replace Ultron.

There is honestly nothing you can do to our team that cant simply be replaced and no we dont have to rely solely on Carina, but will get to that in a bit.

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3. We can prep against Genis Mind Manipulation

That not a very viable strategy because of the following:

1. You dont even know you are facing Genis, let alone a future counterpart, who can do all this stuffs how are you even aware of the ability to prepare for it?

2. How would you even prepare for it, bring in tech Ultron can simply take over everything you bring.

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4. Constantine has taken down Flash so Genis wont be able to draw first in terms of brain synopisis manipulation before Pym

A whole lot of problems with that:

1. Pym affected 1 individual with standing right next to it. Genis affected 3 entire armada without even standing next to them, huge difference in scale.

2. Constaine used his cigarette to trip a running Flash, unless you are telling me Constantine is somehow going to throw a ciggrate butt at Genis while trying to manipulate mind, not sure how that strategy works. And while Flash is indeed a lot faster than Genis in speed, Genis can fly (so he isnt going to be tripping over any cigarette butt, thank you very much) and more importantly, unlike Flash Genis can actually see the future to know what he going to do before he actually does it.

Gallery

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5. Madison can Alter Kang DNA

First even if that works, Kang can be replace in a jiffy, its not hard.

Secondly lets talk to Sentry. Hello Mr. Reynolds, this guy here says Madison is going to alter Kang's DNA, is there anything you like to add?

That solves the problem doesnt it

What you have to note is: you kill our team member they get resurrected, me kill your team member you stay dead.

So unless you can come up with something drastic all of a sudden you dont really have a viable means to victory.

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6. Constantine has faced Spectre and FOF

Its nice to have met them, Contantine never fought Spectre and meeting the devil is good and all but that doesnt automatically give him resistance to an attack he has never shown to counter.

And if you are going on the capability of being each has faced, with plot included and all, Genis killed Eternity who at the story was written as the very embodiment of the multiverse and Sentry killed Molecule Man (who has affected reality on a trans-multiversal scale, and yes i am talking about POST RETCON version). They are going to be pretty damn close to either of the 2 opponents i would think.

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7. How would you know where we send Kang

One we are going to know where you send Kang because we have Genis, a cosmically aware individually who can see everything.

Furthermore, he can actually see Kang future before anything happens, as he can see everyone's future. Here is sees Punisher's future, know exactly why , where and how he dies, and shows him in detail what happens.

Gallery

If this is even in doubt, pretty much every recap of Captain Marvel Volume 4 has this:

"Finally in tune with his cosmic awareness, an ability that allows him to detect EVERY EVENT going on in the universe as it unfolds, and THE CONSEQUENCES THAT STEAM FROM THOSE EVENTS"

Genis's cosmic awareness is just legendary.

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8. Can you guys go to hell outside of Ghost Rider?

None of my team mates have actually tried going to hell, inconsequential though, you cant kill the Ghost Rider, even if you could its not difficult to bring Ghost Rider back and regardless of where you teleport, Carina Walters can simply teleport the Ghost Rider back, as can Genis Vell (i keep saying Carina because despite limited feat, we know she is by far the most powerful member in our team)

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9. Chthon is more powerful than Mephisto hence Pym's feat is better than Ghost Rider's

While i am at a loss to what lore you are referring to, Chthon power on Earth dimension has always been limited. There is an earlier instance where Chthon is simply overcome by Spider Woman on Earth because of the same limitation.

Mephisto however was in Hades (Hell) when that happen, and no i have seen nothing to suggest Chthon is more powerful, even in full, then Mephisto in Hades let alone where he is inhibiting Quicksilver's body.

Inconsequential though becasue both of them together are still leagues and bounds less powerful than Molecule Man whom sentry beat.

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That affecting realities on trans-multiversal scale as a side effect of the battle, and turning entire universes upside down.

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10. What if we take out Carina.

Same as others really, Carina can be brought back to life just fine, we have Genis Vell.

Rather than posting the whole issue i am only going to post pages where Genis kills Brustarr, and brings him back, these scans are from Captain Marvel Vol 4 # 14 if you wanna check it out.

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But what if Genis gets killed, well Sentry can resurrect him. I am sadly missing the scans from Might Avengers 6 and 7 where we see Lindy being resurrected , but i fortunately found the recap page.

Dark Avengers # 12 where he finally understand his power and creates a life out of nothing in the palm of his hand.

And you cant permanently kill Sentry because he can resurrect himself, and has done twice against Molecule Man, once against Lindy, and once against Morgan Le Fay.

So you havent brought anything to prevent a circular resurrection.

You guys die, you will remain dead, we die, we get resurrected, pretty huge advantage there,no?

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19. Killemall seem to to have misrepresented the scans.

Thats not the case, firstly no where in your originally scan does it say the area is immune to reality warping, so there is that.

Now the connection with Carina, that seem very over-reaching. Ok so Carina got pulled into Infinite Mansion because Veil thought it was Wasp and she wanted to resurrect her. Once Carina is inside the infinite mansion, the mansion cant be connected to her now can it?

Then Korvac teleports it, hands Avengers their collective butt, and plot helping is defeated.

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20. Sentry is vulnerable to anti-matter.

I have no idea how you can read the instance and interpret it as such, lets see what happened during the events of Adam: Legends of Blue Marvel # 05.

Sentry starts to fight blue Marvel.

Sentry distinctly overpower Blue Marvel, but instead of finishing the job starts talking to him.

Now Sentry gets sucker punched off panel and goes into space

Then the very next page an angry Sentry comes blitzing form the sky after blue marvel.

Sentry is disoriented, Blue Marvel completely knocked out.

Even in the most unlikely scenario this is somehow seen as Sentry is vulnerable to anti-matter, what exactly would your anti-matter bomb accomplish?

1. Ghost Rider isnt going to be affected by a physical attack, i showed the scan of Ghost Rider , healing his entire body, with a puddle of hellfire.

2. Sentry can bring himself back to life, no amount of anti-matter bomb is going to do more damage than Molecule Man ripping Sentry into peices with molecule manipulation.

3. Sentry resurrects Genis, Genis resurrects Carina, Carina resurrects everyone else.

Achievement from the attack - NIL.

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21 Mr. Majestic has a gun that has help him escape Kang stopping time

Among the flaws @omgomgwtfwtf pointed out, here is one more.

Genis Mr. Majestic has a gun that can help him escape time freeze,anything to say?

Remember Genis can actually see Mr. Majestic is going to use the gun to somehow escape, before he can even do it. :p

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Gotta go to work might reply the rest later.

We arent claiming to be riding the space/time wave or be in Limbo. We are planting the House of Mystery right into the city. Its mobile and changes location as scans have shown. It repairs itself magically and has an assortment of defenses. Its inside changes trying to possess people. Its our HQ

@killemall@omgomgwtfwtf@higorm

Im probably going to be stuck at work and unable to reply due to me being stuck there so I figured Ill reply to some stuff.

2. Robots dont have brain, what is Genis going to do to them

Nothing let Ultron control them, you havent actually came up with a legitimate strategy for it, your first plan was to infect Ultron with Bendis PIS Virus, even if that somehow works Carina can replace Ultron. Second was Majestic somehow re-writing Ultron's code, even if somehow that works Carina can still replace Ultron.

There is honestly nothing you can do to our team that cant simply be replaced and no we dont have to rely solely on Carina, but will get to that in a bit.

The robots are a trojan horse to hack the system. Majestic showing is to show that Pyms code isnt the only feats of hacking tech on a super level. ALso, we placed a scan of the anti-matter bomb being to effect Korvac, thus should Carina

3. We can prep against Genis Mind Manipulation

That not a very viable strategy because of the following:

1. You dont even know you are facing Genis, let alone a future counterpart, who can do all this stuffs how are you even aware of the ability to prepare for it?

2. How would you even prepare for it, bring in tech Ultron can simply take over everything you bring.

2. Are just implying that our feats of Pyms code and Majestic recoding Eradicator doesnt exist and thus the tech to take out Ultron never existed?

19. Killemall seem to to have misrepresented the scans.

Thats not the case, firstly no where in your originally scan does it say the area is immune to reality warping, so there is that.

actually it did. Iron Man talked about the Chaos Wave being from Chthon. Showed world wide reality warping effects. Cho saying the Chaos wave was coming and Pym said the Chaos Wave wouldnt effect the Mansion in Pym Space

7. How would you know where we send Kang

Furthermore, he can actually see Kang future before anything happens, as he can see everyone's future. Here is sees Punisher's future, know exactly why , where and how he dies, and shows him in detail what happens.

Also is Kang going to be able to see into the House of Mystery cuz its a mystical place. Kang's time knowledge is always shown to be effective ordinary time/ space. But there have been holes in time monitoring outside of Hell realms, like this when a massive EM spectrum hit and thus shifted Immortus' scanning. Time monitoring does have its faults

Gallery

"Finally in tune with his cosmic awareness, an ability that allows him to detect EVERY EVENT going on in the universe as it unfolds, and THE CONSEQUENCES THAT STEAM FROM THOSE EVENTS"

Genis's cosmic awareness is just legendary.

In the physical realm? Does it extend to Hell realm related areas. In Mystic Arcana it shows the map of the universe that the real world - then the astral plane-eventually Cytorrak Dimension-and then Hell realms? Im asking cuz I never read Genis' series. But Hell realms are so hard to crack, as shown with Kang, cuz it exist so far out of normal reality cuz I know sometimes it goes wacky in certain situations. Those delays could be costly when antimatter bombs are being rained down on you on an opening salvo. Sort of like when police breach a house. They flash bang the area and then breach, thus hitting hard in the opponents confusion

Dont get us wrong, we respect your team immensely. You have the whole we dont think our people can die but can resurrect thing going but our team doesnt think so concretely. But that isnt the only way to win this thing. Majestic rewrote an entire atmosphere on Jupiter I think. Hank coded Chaos magic. Our team thinks relatively abstractly

I got to go and hopefully I can address anything I missed before this thread ends