In honor of veterans and those still currently serving their countries around the world, this tournament has a soldier theme. I can't thank you enough for your service, and can not begin to describe how much respect I have for those who put their life on the line to fight for what they believe in.
Enough preaching from me, let's get to the tournament!
nickzambuto
Team RED
Wesker
Chris Redfield
Leon Kennedy
VS
sync1
Team BLUE
Grifter
Black Canary
Rules
Only characters who are or have been soldiers can be used in this tournament. They need to have fought for a country, nation, planet, ideal, etc. for a significant amount of time, and have that be a major part of their character.
This tournament welcomes any and all viners. If you're new to tournaments, we can help you along the way. This will be done at a casual pace. If you like strict rules and enforcement, with die hard debaters who will do anything to win, look elsewhere. This tournament will be taken seriously, but the primary purpose is to have fun and learn a bit more about these characters.
Teams consist of 2-3 characters. I'll explain later how you know if you get 2 or 3.
Morals on, in character.
Standard Equipment.
Existing relationships play a role, but your characters primary goal is to eliminate the other team and will work with the other characters, but characters with established teamwork, will do a better job of this.
There will be limited prep, but it is completely limited to strategy meetings. Nothing to make your team any better then standard.
The first round is going to limit your post count to three posts for you and three for your opponent. The first round is going to be 16 separate matches, and asking voters to read that much is probably not going to happen, so we will keep it short for them. I may limit post counts on the second round too.
You will be given no more then 3 days to get a post up after your opponent replies to you. If you're the first to post, then you have 3 days from creation of the match to get your post up. This is PLENTY of time, and you should be able to get it done much faster then that. Since this tourney is designed for everyone, including quite a few viners who are new to tourneys, I'm giving a bit extra time then I normally would. If this is going to be a problem for you (life happens), PM me and your opponent, and we can work something out.
Absolutely no low-balling, wanking, or being disrespectful. This is a tournament for fun, but also to help remember that there are real life soldiers that put their lives on the line day in and day out. Let's remember priorities here, and keep things respectful. This is fiction. If things get heated, I'll help moderate, and maybe call in a few people on here I consider to be experts to help sort things out. Don't lose your cool brah!
Game on.
Location
Team RED is in the SouthWest corner base. Team BLUE is in the NorthEast corner base
You're team has access to the exact map you see above and three hours of prep from within your bases. Please note in the rules that prep is limited strictly to strategy meetings. Nothing will be done but looking at this map, talking, and getting to know the characters on your team.
Here's a link for a video for map reference if you'd like: Blood Gulch Map (ignore any weapon or vehicle pickups)
Win by Death, KO, or Incapacitation.
Extra Perk for Soldiers and Veterans
If you are currently a soldier or a veteran from any military, you can pick one perk. Please be honest.
I'm going to attempt a new technique here. With my opening post, I am going to ignore the fight at hand and simply go over the full extent of my characters' abilities. That way, when I do get into strategy, I would have already lent credence to their skill level and will only have to worry about formulating a plan around their already stated abilities. Now the post is quite extensive, so I recommend just letting this page sit and load for a few minutes before reading, that way all the clips and gifs will be fully functioning.
Hopefully this approach will make my arguments a bit more effective, and if all else fails, at least I'll have spread the knowledge on just how skilled three of my favorite characters are. Starting with the one and only, Captain Chris Redfield of the BSAA.
Chris Redfield
Chris Redfield is a founding member and leading captain of the Bioterrorism Security Assessment Alliance. Having joined the Air Force at the age of 17 and later being recruited by S.T.A.R.S., Chris has extensive training in hand-to-hand combat, knife fighting, weapons handling, marksmanship, piloting, and military tactics. Chris was a dedicated soldier and has been described by his commanding officers in the military as "uncompromising", "possessing unwavering dedication" and having a "high level of adaptability", with his resolve only strengthening since Raccoon City.
On July 24th, 1998, S.T.A.R.S. infiltrated the Spencer Mansion in the Arklay Mountains of Raccoon City and was completely decimated. Alone, Chris fought his way through the entire estate, facing horrors totally unbearable to normal men, and was one of the only four agents to survive, most of whom only escaped thanks to Chris's rescue. Chris would go on to face even more terrifying threats in even deadlier missions, coming out stronger and stronger with each and gaining experience as he went. To date, Chris has completed more missions than any other BSAA member, he is a beyond-expert soldier with enough experience to fill an entire unit. He lives as a legend among the troops and inspires all those he works with to fight to their very last breath, just as he himself does.
Skills and Abilities
Professional handling with virtually every weapon in existence
Award winning marksman
Trained in multiple combat techniques with an exceptionally brutal fighting style
Experienced strategist and leader
Peak human+ Strength and Resilience
Peak human speed and reflexes
Able to think on his feet and adapt to any situation
Combat veteran with decades of experience
Proficient in stealth
Dedicated
Trained pilot
Feats
Skill
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11:05 - 12:35 Mere minutes after arriving in Africa, Chris is attacked by an entire village of super humans and monsters and is able to fend them off long enough for backup to arrive. He even kills the Executioner Majini, a massively powerful enemy who can soak up bullets like a sponge. Even more impressive considering he canonically did it with a pistol, and relied on military tactics and the environment to pick up the slack, luring Majini into a gunpowder trail, dropping an electrical generator on their heads, blowing up the Executioner with a gasoline tank, scrounging for supplies, making barricades, and fending them off in CQC. Sheva was inexperienced at the time, and even though she probably helped, she also needed to be saved and watched as well.
17:08 - 18:10 Chris is ambushed by the Uroboros monster, a powerful creature that had previously wiped out several entire BSAA teams. Normal BSAA agents were unable to fight the monster and were overwhelmed within seconds, but Chris is able to dodge it's attacks and battle it on even ground by fighting smart, before deducing it's weakness to fire and successfully maneuvering it into a giant oven where it was killed.
30:00 - 31:17 Chris battles the Popokarimu, an armored B.O.W. that's a cross between a bat and a millipede. The monster is completely bulletproof and it's only weak point is the red tissue concealed behind it's tail, which is only revealed for a split second during every wing beat when it's tail uncurls, as you can see in the cutscene. Chris dodges the monster's attacks and lures it into proximity mines to circumvent it's bulletproof shell. In the following cutscene the Popokarimu goes berserk and begins flying around erratically at extremely high speeds; in the split instant where it's tail curls down and the weak flesh is revealed, Chris fires three consecutive pistol shots so precise as to bring the beast down immediately, despite being several stories below and quite a distance away, a rather remarkable feat of accuracy all things considered.
1:03:18 - 1:03:38 When the Popokarimu comes back for round 2 pissed as hell, Chris chooses not to fight, and instead cleverly leads the raging monster into a tight archway where it collapses the roof onto itself.
1:07:15 - 1:08:20 Chris's battle against the U8, a gigantic crab-like creature. Chris is able to outmaneuver the massive beast and keep pace with it's assault, adapting to it's abilities and moves and killing it by throwing grenades down it's throat.
1:11:55 - 1:13:20 Chris and Sheva battle their way through a crowded military base and kill dozens of armed Majini without getting shot. It's important to note that Majini aren't zombies, they keep their intelligence when they're infected, and this particular group was a trained army. Chris > super human army.
1:34:37 - 1:36:00 Chris goes head to head with Uroboros Aheri, a true testament to his super soldier combat skill given Aheri's monstrous power. More on this down below.
Marksmanship - Technical knowledge and handling
I believe technical showings when it comes to weapons use is just as important as technical showings when it comes to H2H. It's impressive how Batman knows so many martial arts, just as it's impressive how Chris can use so many different types of firearms to a professional level. Daredevil knows pressure points, whereas Chris knows actual marksman techniques. You get the idea.
The marksman techniques that Chris uses are so advanced and effective that his sister Claire, despite never having a day of formal training in her life, was able to use them and operate at an expert level. She even expresses surprise when the moves actually work, showing that even in the hands of a rookie, Chris's technique is flawless.
His exceptional shooting stance grants him full control over his weapon's trajectory and it's recoil, in the below gifs you can see that even after having his aim ruined by Irving's tentacle, Chris is able to instantly recover and fire two consecutive headshots. His aim is good enough to keep up with Albert Wesker's speed and accurately re-target every every shot, forcing Wesker to dodge each bullet despite Wesker actually being faster than the bullets themselves. Even though both instances have Chris missing, they still show his supreme handling over firearms.
In the first gif Chris begins with his weapon trained on Carla's head, and in the next instant changes targets to the handle of her gun without ever losing accuracy.
This is impressive precision because he hit the bottom of the handle squarely while she was waving the gun around to force it out of her hand without injuring her.
Chris is able to make an accurate heart shot immediately followed by a head shot on a sprinting Majini with the bullets impacting almost simultaneously. All of this goes to show Chris's near-flawless handling and perfect precision with firearms, before getting into the more ridiculous feats.
Against Alexia Ashford, Chris was able to instantly master the use of a high-tech specially designed linear launcher the moment he got his hands on it, and fire it skillfully enough to time his shots and maneuver Alexia into the path of an incoming blast despite her having massively super human reflexes and being much faster than the blasts themselves, not to mention flying in an erratic and unpredictable pattern, WHILE dodging fire on top of everything else. This weapon was the only one of it's type in the whole world, Chris had zero experience with anything even slightly resembling it, and yet he was able to handle it as if he'd been trained for years.
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Similarly, against Uroboros Aheri, Chris took up a powerful satellite laser device to destroy her. The complicated targeting system and heavy handling was instantly adapted to, and Chris once again wielded the weapon like a professional. Anyone else wouldn't even know how the thing worked.
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Marksmanship - Speed and reflexes
This is where most comic book marksman feats come in. Guys like Deadshot and Bullseye have little to no actual training with firearms, they don't even have a fraction of Chris's handling, instead they just rely on freaky reflexes and unexplainable mutant eyesight. As for Chris, in addition to being an expert weapons handler, he also possesses a degree of speed and reflexes that few characters can match. Even in his less experienced days, he had no trouble at all tagging characters and creatures with super human speed. The below gifs show him accurately neck shotting and head shotting Cerberus dogs midsprint, even in heavy fog and near pitch black darkness.
When Alexia was about to kill Claire, Chris was able to raise his magnum and accurately heart shot her from across the platform before she could even lift up her hand. Alexia is a super human, and Chris had almost no time to aim.
By the time of Resident Evil 5, Chris's reflexes have increased dramatically. He was shoot the mask off straight of Jill's face the instant she took her eyes off him. At the time, Jill was pumped up on a serum called P30, which enhanced her to being an effortless bullet timer with super human agility. Every time Sheva shot her, the bullets missed. Chris was the only one able to tag her.
Despite being severely outclassed in raw speed, it was Chris's superior technique and handling of his gun that allowed him to beat Albert Wesker on the quickdraw, and accurately shoot the gun out of his hand. (Pretty quick thinking on Chris's part, if he shot Wesker anywhere else he would have tanked the bullets and shot Chris anyway, so removing the gun instead was a smart move)
Close Quarters Combat
Chris uses the CQC stance, a style designed to allow quick transition between hand-to-hand combat and gunplay, and focuses on disarming and disabling foes as early as possible. His Air Force files make note of him being "rigorously trained in hand-to-hand and knife combat", and his time in S.T.A.R.S. and later the BSAA could have only enlightened him to further knowledge.
Using the CQC stance, Chris is able to quickly and efficiently disarm and counterattack J'avo soldiers, despite their incredible strength and agility. This militaristic style of fighting has the advantage of allowing Chris to integrate weaponry into H2H battles.
Chris's melee moves in the Chronicles series depicts a much more oriental style of fighting by comparison. In the first gif Chris is grabbed by a zombie and manages to avoid being bitten by quickly stabbing his knife into it's head, then following up with what appears to be a reverse roundhouse kick. In the second gif he manages a very effective grapple breaker against a creature with super human strength, and follows up with an impromptu pistol whip, showing his ability to improvise various moves. The third gif is the most impressive, Chris breaks the zombie's grapple with a skipping kick so precise that he separated Claire without injuring her, proceeded to clobber the zombie with a powerful left cross, and finished it off with a high spin kick to the neck. All in all Chris showed knowledge in Taekwondo, possibly Muay Thai, military CQC, and improvised brawling, each of which he is capable of integrating and mixing up.
Something that I find very impressive is that in his fight with Wesker, Chris was able to use the momentum of being punched in the face to spin around and power his own reverse roundhouse kick. Nothing has ever been stated, but if you pay attention to his techniques it does seem like Chris is very well versed in Taekwondo.
Additionally he also appears to have experience in Judo, using a basic shoulder throw against the super human Jill Valentine to great effect, and also being capable of countering a Bloodshot zombie's tackle with a ground slam.
And finally Chris displays very impressive skills in boxing, using a full-fledged combination move against Albert Wesker, targeting the jaw, the kidneys, and the stomach with enough power to actually make Wesker fall to the ground. Admittedly Wesker needs to be stunned in order for Chris to pull this off, otherwise he'll just dodge, but that's more of a testament to Wesker's reflexes rather than a knock against Chris. The knowledge and power displayed are still there, and this combination would be very effective against someone in the same speed realm as Chris himself.
Chris also appears to have basic knowledge of bodily weak points, often targeting the kidneys and the neck among other places. He was able to sever a Crimson Head's jugular with his knife after sidestepping it's rush, and can snap necks with ease. One of Chris's attacks involves shattering his opponent's spine by hammering his elbow into the small of their back.
Any deficiency in technique can easily be made up for by Chris's sheer strength and brutality. He's not only willing to, but also fully capable of literally ripping B.O.W.s apart and in half, then murdering them with their own body parts. If he can do this to monsters, particularly the bullet proof shells of the J'avo, then ripping a mere flesh and blood human in half should be no sweat.
Leon Scott Kennedy
Leon Scott Kennedy was born with a strong sense of justice and burns to protect and serve. Having graduated from the police academy within the top 10 percentile at the age of 21, Leon requested assignment in Raccoon City to investigate the mysterious Arklay Mountains murder cases going on there. Arriving in the city on the day of the T-Virus outbreak, Leon was thrown into hell on Earth and forced to fight for survival in a city on the verge of self destruction.
Being one of the very few citizens to survive the ordeal, Leon caught the eye of the United States Government, and was promptly blackmailed into working for them. Spending the next six years of his life in heavy training, Leon's natural aptitude for combat and thinking on his feet quickly made him rise through the ranks, and it wasn't long before he was working as the right hand man to the president of the United States himself.
Gaining experience in multiple special forces agencies, the secret service, unlisted government organizations, and as a solo black ops agent, Leon has amassed a wealth of knowledge and experience that would help him to survive against the very worst the world has to offer.
Skills and Abilities
Master marksman with experience using a wide variety of weaponry
Accomplished unarmed combatant with a specialty for knives
Exceptionally quick thinker, able to formulate strategies and deduce weaknesses within seconds
Highly perceptive with keen instincts
Heavily trained in evasive acrobatics and parkour
Peak human physical conditioning
Proficient in stealth
Highly adaptive
Strong will to live resulted from time spent in Raccoon City
Feats
Skill
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8:20 - 11:40 Leon was able to battle an entire village of super humans on his own in one of the most intense opening levels in gaming. Like Chris, he survives by thinking on his feet, fending them off in CQC, and making every shot count. He kills dozens of Ganados including the powerful Dr. Salvador, and survives long enough for Ada to find a key, make her way all the way to the church, solve two puzzles, fight a few Ganados, and ring the church bell.
21:18 - 23:25 Leon is forced to battle Del Lago in the middle of a lake, with his only defense being a small wooden dinghy. He is able to kill the beast using only a handful of harpoons, throwing them down it's throat and piercing it's hide just by throwing them, then outswimming it when he's knocked off the boat. When the monster dies, Leon is capable of supporting it's weight long enough to free himself of the rope binding them together, showing extraordinary leg strength.
27:20 - 29:30 Leon is attacked by El Gigante right after the monster shows itself powerful enough to murder a horde of Ganado. Whereas the normal Ganado were unable to react to the giant's attacks, Leon is able to acrobatically flip away from it's fist after it's already inches away from his body, and continues to skillfully evade it for the rest of the battle. When the giant's plaga bursts from it's back, Leon with no hesitation scales El Gigante's body and begins slashing at the weak point, then survives a several story fall with no injury.
32:58 Leon and Ashley are sandwiched between a couple hundred Ganado, and Leon quickly decides to take refuge in a nearby cabin to gain a tactical advantage. From 34:10 - 35:22 Leon and Luis battle the entire village's population, until eventually the Ganados realize they're just being slaughtered and literally retreat. The hundreds of super humans had to retreat from one Leon (with help from Luis who is just a scientist with no training) Also keep in mind the scene is heavily edited, it goes on a LOT longer than that.
37:15 - 39:50 An impressive feat here, with no hint or indication, Leon is able to sense Chief Mendez inside the warehouse and tells Ashley it's safer outside. Once inside, he is confronted by Mendez who runs so fast that all Leon sees is a shadow, and displays the strength to twist metal bars into knots. Leon withstands getting strangled by him, and even after getting the back of his head slammed into a wooden beam, he still thinks clearly enough to avoid Mendez's grab (despite the speed Mendez just displayed) and blows him up with a gasoline tank. The rest of the fight has Leon battling Mendez in his mutated form as the warehouse around them burns to the ground, it's worth noting that the player either had fully upgraded weapons or the scene was heavily edited, because Mendez is a lot stronger than that.
51:30 - 52:30 Leon defeats a whole nest of Novistadors alone.
54:35 - 57:35 Leon battles the Verdugo, a creature with razor sharp talons, a tail like a spear, the speed to leave after images, and a completely bullet proof outer shell. Leon is able to survive against this beast in melee, and cleverly circumvents its hard shell by freezing it with liquid nitrogen. He uses acrobatics to avoid the Verdugo's sneak attacks from the ceiling, and after weakening it some, shatters the monster's frozen body with a kick.
59:46 In a last ditch desperate bid to kill Leon, Salazar allows himself and the remaining Verdugo to be assimilated into the Queen Plaga, the "mother" of the plaga. The monstrous creature birthed from this takes up the entire two story rear wall and it's only vulnerable spot is it's single eye, but Leon treats the situation with only mild annoyance at best, first getting rid of it's main offense, the giant tentacles, then weakening the Verdugo head, and finally killing Salazar himself. The new chimera failed in its attack on Leon, and he continued on.
1:28:00 - 1:28:10 Leon is once again able to sense that there is danger ahead, and tells Ashley to wait. His intuition proved correct, as Saddler himself was waiting for them at the top of the lift.
1:29:34 - 1:31:35 Leon's battle against Osmund Saddler, the most powerful of the Los Illuminados. Saddler is immensely strong and can soak up bullets like a sponge, so Leon smartly and skillfully evades him for the duration of the fight (particularly 1:30:15), using the environment to it's full potential, and finally finishing him off by firing an RPG Special directly through his eye. Leon did this from across the platform, whilst the eye was waving around erratically, which when coupled with the inaccuracy of an RPG makes this an excellent showing of marksmanship. 1:30:15
Marksmanship - Technical knowledge and handling
Compared to Chris, Leon's shooting stance is much looser and he holds the gun much closer. This is at the expense of precision, however, it also allows Leon to be much quicker, which when in combination with his already incredible reflexes, makes him a very deadly shot. That said, regardless of his stance he still holds a level of precision that few characters can match. In the below video Leon is able to make accurate headshots from a distance of over 50 yards in almost complete darkness.
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Additionally, Leon was accurate enough to shoot the mutated Curtis Miller directly between the eyes while hanging upside down from his legs and supporting the combined weight of himself, Angela, and Curtis, with the bullet coming mere inches from Angela's body (she was obstructing the shot) So it's not like he really lacks precision in his own right or anything.
Leon also has the added advantage of being an expert knife thrower. In the first gif he impales Salazar's hand before he can move an inch from all the way across the room, in the second he slices through a thin rope holding Ada a couple stories in the air, and in the third he stabs the mutated Curtis Miller directly through the pupil. Such a skill can easily come in handy in a sticky situation, be it catching an opponent off guard or when he's out of ammo, Leon will always have a range possibility.
Marksmanship - Speed and reflexes
Like Chris, Leon has never had trouble tagging Cerberus dogs with killshots, even from a great distance. Earlier in the day while driving into town, Leon encountered a Cerberus and said that it was hard for him to even see the thing move, he was only able to vaguely recognize it as some form of animal. Yet by this point he's tracking their movements and shooting them through the heart.
Leon reflexes are advanced enough to tag a Licker as it's leaping over head, and headshot two lickers consecutively while doing parkour. Lickers move at super human speeds, they can easily run through fully automatic gunfire, and a small group of them was able to wipe out the entire Raccoon City police force.
Jack Krauser is an extremely skilled super human. He can dodge bullets with ease, but Leon was able to throw his grapple hook fast and accurate enough that Krauser was unable to react, and nearly lost his gun. Leon did this without aiming.
One of my favorite feats, Simmons rips up a metal plate and hurls it towards Leon and Helena at super human speeds. Leon is able to slide on the floor, fire two consecutive bullets into the plate in the exact same spot, while it's spinning around, from the perfect angle to make it just barely miss Helena.
Close Quarters Combat
Leon has been trained in even more fighting styles than Chris and displays absolutely flawless technique with every attack. He has an almost encyclopedic knowledge of kicks from numerous martial art styles, performing them effortlessly and with the upmost dexterity. In the below gifs Leon performs over a dozen different variations of kicks from several different martial arts styles. The ones I recognize are 1) a Roundhouse Kick 2) Reverse Roundhouse Kick 3) Back Kick 4) Jump Kick 5) Spin Kick 6) Skipping Kick 7) Left Kick 8) High Kick. These various techniques come from Taekwondo, Jeet Kune Do, Muay Thai, and Capoeira.
Additionally, Leon is highly accomplished in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, to the point where he was able to briefly take on a Licker using ground moves.
Using a combination of martial arts and military techniques, Leon was able to fight Chris Redfield evenly in hand to hand combat, first disarming him of his assault rifle, then cleverly force-holstering his pistol and ducking beneath a hook, simultaneously using the momentum to power his kick. Throughout the fight Leon was able to block and counter several of Chris's attacks, and broke out of two holds, all despite Chris's immense strength.
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Chris himself also displays great technique and swiftness, making this a great feat for them both.
Leon's specialty is knife-fighting, in which he is proficient enough to disarm and counter a Ganado despite being handcuffed, and despite the Ganado's superhuman strength, and also get the better of JD when he had a knife to his back.
When armed with a knife, his potential for damage output is multiplied as is his skill level. He's been shown capable of stomping characters when armed with a knife that have given him trouble when unarmed.
Albert Wesker
Conceited, cold hearted, self righteous, and totally brilliant in every way, Albert Wesker is the product of Oswell E. Spencer's "Project W", an experiment intending to create a new superior breed of human. Born with an unnaturally high intellect and given the best education possible, Albert Wesker quickly rose through the ranks of Umbrella Corp, first joining at the age of 17, and within a matter of years rising to become one of it's top researchers, as well as top security officers. Wesker is highly trained in every field ranging from genetics to martial arts. His cold and calculating manner has allowed him to outsmart virtually every one who has ever gotten in his way, including his creator, Spencer himself.
Since Wesker's abilities are much more widely known and respected than Chris and Leon's, and I've already gone pretty overboard with this post, I think I'll skip giving him a mini-respect thread and just save his feats for the debate itself.
@nickzambuto: Alright, so the way i'm going to approach this debate, is i will state my arguments and post the feat that directly supports my statements. This means i am not going to be creating a mini-respect thread in my introduction, lol. So here it is.
Grifter
Cole Cash. Former U.S. Special Ops soldier. Now a con-artist, he has become one of the most wanted men on the planet. Through Daemonite experimentation, he has gained superhuman abilities such as telekinesis and telepathy. These powers combined with his excellent marksmanship and military training, make him one of the most dangerous men on the planet.
Black Canary
Dinah Drake. Former member of Team 7, a military special operations team. Now a member of the Birds of Prey, she is a metahuman vigilante who's hand-to-hand skills are known for being one of the greatest in the DC Universe.
Now, i will be awaiting your gameplan, as i think Red Team is supposed to kickoff the debating. Goodluck.
@sync1: Now as skilled and powerful as Grifter and Black Canary are, I'm afraid their outmatched in this battle. It's a two-on-three fight, Chris's marksmanship can match Cole's any day of the week and Dinah will be hardpressed to outfight Leon Kennedy, but on top of that, I also have Wesker ready to oneshot everyone here. If it were just Chris and Leon I could see this battle going either way, but Albert Wesker coming at you at the same time just puts the odds too much in my favor.
Starting with prep, I don't see Cole and Dinah doing much there. They don't even know each other, and neither of them has the strategic fortitude to come up with an offensive gameplan in a no-knowledge battle. Meanwhile all three of my guys already know the full extent of each other's abilities, so even though they don't know what YOU are capable of, they would still be able to set each other up in the most tactically advantageous positions within the battlefield. Chris, Leon, and Wesker all excel at using their brains and making strategies, so you can bet that they'll make as much out of this prep time as possible.
The Plan
Chris will get into a sniper position on the roof of our base. It shouldn't be too difficult to make a rudimentary barricade using materials found around the battlefield, so he should be decently protected if Grifter attempts to return fire (I know we don't have knowledge that our opponent will be a marksman, but making cover should be a basic enough precaution for an experienced soldier that Chris will do it anyway). Now optimally, Chris should be able to eliminate both Grifter and Black Canary the instant the battle starts. I don't believe either has the range to counter a sniper rifle, which is a standard weapon for Chris, nor will they even know that they have a sniper on them at all. The battlefield is pretty open, you can see in the video that there's really no cover at all besides hills, so it shouldn't really be possible for your team to escape. Even if they try and sneak over to us, Chris will spot them from his vantage point and take them out.
You can try and make the case that your team is capable of running through half a mile of sheer land without getting shot, but Chris is an expert marksman, the bullets travel faster than sound, and they won't know they're getting shot at till it's too late, so that doesn't sound like a reliable strategy.
Meanwhile, Wesker will take the blunt approach and run straight across the battlefield and engage your team in close quarters combat. So while they're dodging sniper rifle fire, they'll simultaneously have to fend off a martial arts assault from a man capable of putting his hand straight through their chests in an instant.
You can see in the below video how effectively he can clear a gap while dodging bullets from two expert marksman, he moves so fast it looks like he's teleporting. That's from the perspective of two bullet timers. Grifter and Dinah are great martial artists, Dinah specifically, but Wesker's fighting style is just too fast, too powerful, and too advanced. Just look at the moves and techniques he pulls out, Wesker might not have mastered a million billion styles of combat like certain DC characters, but I have no doubt that he'd be capable of matching Black Canary in just raw CQC technique.
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Now can Grifter and Canary dodge Chris's sniper fire? Maybe. Can they beat Wesker in CQC? Arguably. Can they do both at once? Ehhh possibly.... Can they avoid getting blown up when Leon suddenly jumps into the fray as well with rocket launchers and sh!t? Now the odds certainly seem against them, because while all this was going on, Leon was slowly making his way over to a safe, hidden little section of the map where he can gain his OWN vantage point and finish the enemy off by surprise with his variety of weaponry.
Using a rocket launcher, Leon was able to hit Saddler directly through his mutated eye from all the way across the platform while it was waving around erratically.
Now Saddler was a heckuva lot more durable than Grifter and Canary, so if you doubt Leon's accuracy, all he'll need to do is launch the rocket near them, and the explosion should wipe them off the face of the Earth.
There's just too many factors going against your team. Three against two is a giant advantage, especially when all three opponents are better strategists then either of the two.
@nickzambuto: Alrighty good plan, but i don't think my team will be eliminated that easily xD
Prep
So during prep, Grifter is going to read Black Canary's mind. He will instantly know everything about her, including her powerset. Grifter is a great team player, so he will definitely work with Canary here. So now he is going to introduce himself to Canary, and tell her about his TK powers and his military experience. Hell, he could even spar with Canary to showcase his h2h abilities. But, since they don't know what their opponents are made of, they are going to use their metahuman abilities to secure a victory, which is something Chris, Leon, and Wesker do not have (not including Wesker's insane speed and strength). Black Canary is the former leader of the Birds of Prey (currently it is Batgirl), so she has plenty of experience as a leader. She will be taking the tactical lead here.
Gameplan
So as you can see here, there is plenty of covers behind these hills.
So this fight would be right up Grifter's alley. He has plenty of experience fighting on the frontlines, so this map would benefit our team. So our actual plan, would be for Grifter and Black Canary to push through the map, using the hills, trees, and rocks as cover.
Now, as you can see in this next scan, he has plenty of experience dodging bullets from actual armies, and returning fire.
So i don't see why he would have a problem with 3 people.
Eventually, they'll meet Wesker. He's a great fighter. Maybe not better than Black Canary in skill, but he's definitely faster and stronger. Now you can say he's gonna beat them by "putting his hand through their chests," but let's be real... this is what would happen to him:
This fight would never come to a hand to hand fight, because they will quickly end this with their powers. And don't say Black Canary wouldn't use it on them, because it is completely in-character for her to use her Canary Cry against humans, like she did against a military squad in an issue i forgot (but if you really NEED to see this scan, i can provide it upon request).
At this point, Leon would definitely be around the corner and ready to shoot his launcher thing. This launcher is not a threat at all. In fact, it will lead to the death of Leon, as Grifter will use his telekinesis to stop the missile, turn it around, and hit Leon with it. But like you said, it doesn't need to actually hit Leon, it just needs to hit near him ;)
Now all that's left is Chris. He is now out-numbered, and is easily prone to getting surrounded.
There's three ways this can go down. One, Chris tries to shoot Grifter or Canary, and gets his bullets redirected which kills him like so:
Two, he loses in a h2h fight against Grifter. (and probably gets one-shotted, due to his TK enhanced punches)
Chris isn't a better fighter than Midnighter xD
or Three, he makes Chris beat himself up.
Black Canary can just sit and enjoy the victory. Or, she can quickly incapacitate Chris with her Canary Cry. But at the end of the day, Grifter can solo your team. He is a bullet timer, and can quickly use his TK to KO or kill every single on of your team members. Chris and Leon's specialty, based on your showings, are the use of firearms. Grifter has shown to easily defeat Deadshot. Niether Chris nor Leon is a better marksman than Deadshot. Another thing your team is good in is h2h combat, which Grifter doesn't really NEED to engage in. He can quickly throw them 500 feet in the air.
There's nothing your team can do to actually get past their powers, which is why my team wins this with relative ease.
Grifter is a great team player, so he will definitely work with Canary here... Black Canary is the former leader of the Birds of Prey (currently it is Batgirl), so she has plenty of experience as a leader. She will be taking the tactical lead here.
That's not really an advantage. All three of my guys know each other already, Leon and Chris are friends, and all three of them are fantastic leaders. Chris and Wesker might butt heads a little but at the end of the day, the rules of the tourney said that all fighters will be focused on winning, so there should be no major conflicts. In Resident Evil 6 Chris was able to get his entire team excited to head into a suicide mission, RIGHT after watching the corpse of their deceased comrade get carried away in a casket, so it's safe to say he's a better leader than Black Canary and sure as hell a better tactician.
But, since they don't know what their opponents are made of, they are going to use their metahuman abilities to secure a victory, which is something Chris, Leon, and Wesker do not have (not including Wesker's insane speed and strength).
I agree, if we completely disregard Wesker's metahuman powers then he definitely doesn't have any metahuman powers.
So as you can see here, there is plenty of covers behind these hills.
Not really. From his vantage point up on the roof, Chris will have a clear view beyond the hills. Grifter and Canary will need to actually crawl their way around inch by inch if they wanna keep their heads, and the second they get to the top of one hill in order to reach the next, crawling won't even matter. Not to mention you guys will have no idea there is a sniper set up, so you'll be completely caught off guard and will have no chance to be sneaky.
So this fight would be right up Grifter's alley. He has plenty of experience fighting on the frontlines, so this map would benefit our team.
As if Chris doesn't?
Now, as you can see in this next scan, he has plenty of experience dodging bullets from actual armies, and returning fire.
I don't see much bullet dodging in that scan, so much as Grifter slowly walking while projectiles go off all around him. Chris, my slowest character, has actually dodged bullets after they were fired.
Ducks under assault rifle fire.
Reacts to a bullet fired by Sheva and pushes away from the Majini, causing the round to go between them.
Additionally, Chris has survived on actual battlefields while surrounded by literally dozens of hostiles all firing automatic weapons, with his only backup being Piers. A little but more intense than that scan of Grifter.
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Skip to 11:40.
So i don't see why he would have a problem with 3 people.
If he doesn't know Chris is going to snipe him, how could he possibly avoid it? Also that doesn't speak for Black Canary.
Eventually, they'll meet Wesker. He's a great fighter. Maybe not better than Black Canary in skill, but he's definitely faster and stronger. Now you can say he's gonna beat them by "putting his hand through their chests," but let's be real... this is what would happen to him:
This fight would never come to a hand to hand fight, because they will quickly end this with their powers. And don't say Black Canary wouldn't use it on them, because it is completely in-character for her to use her Canary Cry against humans, like she did against a military squad in an issue i forgot (but if you really NEED to see this scan, i can provide it upon request).
Are you saying Canary would BFR Wesker? That's possible, but against the rules. Wesker is durable enough to have an RPG explode in his face and only experience minor discomfort.
It basically took him off guard and that's about it. He still effortlessly overpowered Chris and continued fighting, in fact it took three RPGs in rapid succession just to stun him for a few seconds. It's possible that Black Canary's scream is more powerful than an RPG, but not enough to instantly knock Wesker out when missiles can only stun him. And if Canary doesn't instantly knock Wesker out, but instead injures him, then he's sure to get pissed off and speedblitz her with the aforementioned hand-through-chest. Dinah won't have time to get off a second scream, and even if she does, she'll be left wide open to Chris's sniper fire by engaging Wesker.
At this point, Leon would definitely be around the corner and ready to shoot his launcher thing. This launcher is not a threat at all. In fact, it will lead to the death of Leon, as Grifter will use his telekinesis to stop the missile, turn it around, and hit Leon with it. But like you said, it doesn't need to actually hit Leon, it just needs to hit near him ;)
Can Grifter react fast enough to turn, see the missile, see Leon, and think to turn it back on him rather than simply dodge, all in the span of a few milliseconds? RPGs travel at about 965 feet per second, Leon will be 50 feet away at most. Coupled with the unexpected appearance of Wesker and avoiding sniper fire simultaneously, it sounds like you're taxing Grifter's abilities to say he's capable of dealing with all these factors at once.
Even if the RPG does get turned back on him, Leon has been in the exact same situation before and managed to survive, even despite getting punched by the mutated Super Tyrant and thrown into a concrete pillar immediately after.
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I know it sounds like I'm going back on what I said about the missile only needing to impact nearby in order to kill a human target, but Resident Evil characters are extremely durable. Leon won't get taken out that easily.
Now all that's left is Chris. He is now out-numbered, and is easily prone to getting surrounded.
There's three ways this can go down. One, Chris tries to shoot Grifter or Canary, and gets his bullets redirected which kills him like so:
Though that scan is impressive, Grifter was actively staring at Deadshot, waiting for him to fire so that he could redirect the bullet. In this scenario, he'll be caught TOTALLY off guard by Chris, and it's arguable whether he has the reaction time to redirect the bullet with no warning, let alone the accuracy to hit Chris while he's laying down from such an incredible distance away. Chris can make the shot because he has a scope, Grifter doesn't.
Two, he loses in a h2h fight against Grifter. (and probably gets one-shotted, due to his TK enhanced punches)
or Three, he makes Chris beat himself up.
I concede, Grifter would probably win in CQC given his plethora of abilities. However, I seriously disagree that Chris would get oneshotted. The man is a tank.
Regardless, Chris would have to be pretty heavily off his game to let this match come into close quarters. That would be absolutely amateur of him.
Chris and Leon's specialty, based on your showings, are the use of firearms. Grifter has shown to easily defeat Deadshot. Niether Chris nor Leon is a better marksman than Deadshot.
At the same time, Deadshot isn't even a fraction as quick or intelligent as any of my team members, both of which factor in.
At the end of the day, our better use of prep time and strategy will overcome your super powers. This is hardly the first time Chris and Leon have faced an opponent with metahuman abilities and come out on top by being smart, and in this scenario they have the physical beast Albert Wesker backing them up. Given each of our strategies, there's just too many factors going against Grifter and Canary for them to actually pull off any of the tactics you mentioned. The second they put their focus on one guy, the next guy is given an opening. The numbers advantage is too much to gap, our brains just widens it even further.
@tparks@sync1 I've made my post, and I acknowledge that I'm horribly late. Can I still be eligible to continue? I know I said I was dropping out, but I've decided I really don't want this tourney to die on it's first round (since after I said I was dropping out, a couple more people followed suit) so I'm ready and willing to continue. I think we should just open this up for votes now (sync can make another post if he wants) and move on as soon as possible.
@tparks@sync1 I've made my post, and I acknowledge that I'm horribly late. Can I still be eligible to continue? I know I said I was dropping out, but I've decided I really don't want this tourney to die on it's first round (since after I said I was dropping out, a couple more people followed suit) so I'm ready and willing to continue. I think we should just open this up for votes now (sync can make another post if he wants) and move on as soon as possible.
No problem man. I'm just glad you decided to stick around. It's open to votes. Feel free to tag people.
I'll go with @nickzambuto. His strategy of taking advantage of his numbers advantage seems to work. Its possible Grifter could defend but as he said its not likely since Grifter won't be aware until the attack happens.
@nickzambuto: Okay i got my computer. I'm glad you're not dropping out, so i can give are more in-depth debate.
So i will be quoting arguments, and the underlined will be your statements. Just to get that straight. Alright, leggo.
Grifter is a great team player, so he will definitely work with Canary here... Black Canary is the former leader of the Birds of Prey (currently it is Batgirl), so she has plenty of experience as a leader. She will be taking the tactical lead here.
That's not really an advantage. All three of my guys know each other already, Leon and Chris are friends, and all three of them are fantastic leaders. Chris and Wesker might butt heads a little but at the end of the day, the rules of the tourney said that all fighters will be focused on winning, so there should be no major conflicts. In Resident Evil 6 Chris was able to get his entire team excited to head into a suicide mission, RIGHT after watching the corpse of their deceased comrade get carried away in a casket, so it's safe to say he's a better leader than Black Canary and sure as hell a better tactician.
I've explained that they would work together, meaning we would have synergy. I'm not stating we have the superior teamwork. Although, we do have around the same tactical and leading skills. There's no evidence of any one of us having superior leading skills, as Black Canary has lead the Birds of Prey through thick and thin, and Chris has lead a military squad. But this is redundant information, and really doesn't dictate the outcome of the fight.
But, since they don't know what their opponents are made of, they are going to use their metahuman abilities to secure a victory, which is something Chris, Leon, and Wesker do not have (not including Wesker's insane speed and strength).
I agree, if we completely disregard Wesker's metahuman powers then he definitely doesn't have any metahuman powers.
Wesker has heightened physical attributes. So i said aside from the aforementioned heightened physicals, he has no metahuman abilities such as a Sonic Scream or Telekinesis. Meaning his only edge would have to be a hand-to-hand fight, which i already stated that our team would not have to engage in.
So as you can see here, there is plenty of covers behind these hills.
Not really. From his vantage point up on the roof, Chris will have a clear view beyond the hills. Grifter and Canary will need to actually crawl their way around inch by inch if they wanna keep their heads, and the second they get to the top of one hill in order to reach the next, crawling won't even matter. Not to mention you guys will have no idea there is a sniper set up, so you'll be completely caught off guard and will have no chance to be sneaky.
Here is physical evidence that the hills would be more than enough cover. Also, being the tactical geniuses they are, why would they just assume there aren't any type snipers or ranged attacks? Since they both went through military training, they would without a doubt be using the tremendous amount of cover tactically. Hell, even i'm not stupid enough to walk in plain sight. It doesn't take prior information on your team to know not to walk out in the open.
So this fight would be right up Grifter's alley. He has plenty of experience fighting on the frontlines, so this map would benefit our team.
As if Chris doesn't?
Chris is setup in your base. Therefore it gives our team the edge more so than it does your team.
Now, as you can see in this next scan, he has plenty of experience dodging bullets from actual armies, and returning fire.
I don't see much bullet dodging in that scan, so much as Grifter slowly walking while projectiles go off all around him. Chris, my slowest character, has actually dodged bullets after they were fired.
It clearly shows that he knows how to maneuver through a battlefield, using cover, and then returning fire all while not getting tagged by bullets. He does this all the time, and never seemed to let a bullet touch him:
Gallery
Last one's from Grifter v1
And i don't know what you're trying to prove by showing speed feats for Chris. Grifter's guns are not my primary offensive (although he is a great marksman). It is Grifter's TK and BC's Canary Cry that you have to be worried about, which you have no actual defense for.
So i don't see why he would have a problem with 3 people.
If he doesn't know Chris is going to snipe him, how could he possibly avoid it? Also that doesn't speak for Black Canary.
Like i said, they are maneuvering through this battlefield like it's a war, given that's how they both always operate. With the 3 hours of prep, it gives our team the chance to look at the map. Now, since we start at the North East corner base, obviously they'll know the enemy is at the other base. Guess who's sitting there with a sniper? Chris. We can read your team like a book. That being said, we will totally be expecting your blatantly obvious sniper strategy.
Now Black Canary is a bullet timer. I'm sure you already know that. She would have no problem keeping up with Grifter. (For the sake of saving time, we can both just assume she can dodge bullets (as can every other superhero), but if you really NEED to see it, i will provide them upon request. Again. Although you should already be aware of this).
Eventually, they'll meet Wesker. He's a great fighter. Maybe not better than Black Canary in skill, but he's definitely faster and stronger. Now you can say he's gonna beat them by "putting his hand through their chests," but let's be real... this is what would happen to him:
This fight would never come to a hand to hand fight, because they will quickly end this with their powers. And don't say Black Canary wouldn't use it on them, because it is completely in-character for her to use her Canary Cry against humans, like she did against a military squad in an issue i forgot (but if you really NEED to see this scan, i can provide it upon request).
Are you saying Canary would BFR Wesker? That's possible, but against the rules. Wesker is durable enough to have an RPG explode in his face and only experience minor discomfort.
No i am not saying she is going to BFR Wesker. I was simply showing you the power of the Canary Cry, which for the record, is stronger than an RPG.
This is exactly how it would go down.
At this point, Leon would definitely be around the corner and ready to shoot his launcher thing. This launcher is not a threat at all. In fact, it will lead to the death of Leon, as Grifter will use his telekinesis to stop the missile, turn it around, and hit Leon with it. But like you said, it doesn't need to actually hit Leon, it just needs to hit near him ;)
Can Grifter react fast enough to turn, see the missile, see Leon, and think to turn it back on him rather than simply dodge, all in the span of a few milliseconds? RPGs travel at about 965 feet per second, Leon will be 50 feet away at most. Coupled with the unexpected appearance of Wesker and avoiding sniper fire simultaneously, it sounds like you're taxing Grifter's abilities to say he's capable of dealing with all these factors at once.
Of course he can react in time to see the missile. It's an open battlefield. Of course my team's going to see this conspicuous guy running around with a launcher in his hand. Once he decides to shoot it, Grifter will stop it and redirect it. With the probably totally expected appearance of Wesker due to his cocky nature (meaning he will just walk through the damn map in a slow, stuck up manner), he will be taken care of in no time (be it a quick Canary Cry, or Grifter throws him 500 feet in the air). Also our team will just need to stay behind cover to avoid shots from Chris. It really sounds like you're relying on firearms to take down my team, when i've already proven how and why it won't work. Oh, and yes, Grifter CAN deal with all of these factors at once if he wanted to. I'm just trying to involve Black Canary so she won't be left out.xD
Even if the RPG does get turned back on him, Leon has been in the exact same situation before and managed to survive, even despite getting punched by the mutated Super Tyrant and thrown into a concrete pillar immediately after.
The only thing i see in that video is a monster throwing an RPG up in the air, to only slowly fall back down to the ground giving Leon a lot of time to run out of the way. Hell, i could do that. But what i found funny was that even when the RPG was in the air, Leon just stared at it. Now imagine if Grifter took the RPG, and redirected it back at him at about the same speed. Leon would get destroyed.
There's three ways this can go down. One, Chris tries to shoot Grifter or Canary, and gets his bullets redirected which kills him like so:
Though that scan is impressive, Grifter was actively staring at Deadshot, waiting for him to fire so that he could redirect the bullet. In this scenario, he'll be caught TOTALLY off guard by Chris, and it's arguable whether he has the reaction time to redirect the bullet with no warning, let alone the accuracy to hit Chris while he's laying down from such an incredible distance away. Chris can make the shot because he has a scope, Grifter doesn't.
What makes you think Grifter is going to be "TOTALLY" caught off guard? I said once Grifter and BC easily dispose of Leon and Wesker (in a matter of seconds), they will proceed to close in on Chris and surround him in his building. But you know what, thanks for making it easier on me, because since Chris is laying down, there will be no way for him to dodge bullets. Thus, Grifter can just shoot him out.
So let's say Chris decides to not lay down and gets put on a defensive. This gives my team the chance to surround Chris. If Chris comes out guns blazing, Grifter (now at a much closer distance) will be able to redirect his bullets, killing him.
Two, he loses in a h2h fight against Grifter. (and probably gets one-shotted, due to his TK enhanced punches)
or Three, he makes Chris beat himself up.
I concede, Grifter would probably win in CQC given his plethora of abilities. However, I seriously disagree that Chris would get oneshotted. The man is a tank.
Regardless, Chris would have to be pretty heavily off his game to let this match come into close quarters. That would be absolutely amateur of him.
This fight would have to come CQC, or Chris dies by getting shot in the face.
See how visible Chris would be if he were to lie on the top of that base and set up a sniper position? He is an EASY target for Grifter. He either stays up there and dies, or gets down from there only to stall his inevitable death through CQC.
Let's run this into a conclusion.
Conclusion
I gave clear evidence of cover in the map, which my team will be using to avoid getting sniped.
Both of my team has shown to dodge bullets. This is a battlefield setting, which would make it even easier (as they are both veterans).
Wesker will get KO'd by the Canary Cry, or he will get crushed via Grifter's TK in a matter of seconds. He is no threat.
Given the cocky nature of Wesker, he will just stroll through the map, making it much easier on my team.
Leon's launcher is blatantly obvious, and if he decides to shoot it, he gets it redirected by Grifter thus killing him. (Leon's launcher dodge proved this, as he just stood there watching the missile fall from the sky. If it were Grifter, he would redirect it at around the same speed. Evidence of him doing so is when he redirects Deadshot's bullets. It would have to be at the same speed in order for Deadshot to not dodge it AND for it to actual go through Deadshot).
Chris is easily seen. Since you stated yourself that Chris is lying down, there is no way for him to dodge Grifter's bullets. Grifter can shoot him out, or lose in CQC.
I have proved why your plan does not work, no matter what route you take (set up a sniper position, or take this to CQC). With the amount of cover in between Chris and my team, Chris will not be able to tag them. Wesker and Leon will get killed (or KO'd) in a matter of seconds. Chris is a sitting duck. He is prone to either getting shot, or getting stomped in CQC.
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