#1 Posted by Fetts (4405 posts) - - Show Bio

Mission Type: Hostage Takeover 
 
Mission: There is a man by the name of Sunuv A. Beach (say that fast :D) who the unknown man wants taken to him. The problem is that Sunuv has recently gone into plastic surgery and the unknown man has no idea what he looks like. Only that he works at a firm in Chicago. Your mission, should you choose to accept, is to go to his firm and start a hostage situation. You must find Sunuv and bring him to the unknown man. 

 
 Rumble, your team starts at the far East side. Immortal, your team starts at the West side. Now it's not as simple as it might appear. There are 100 people in the building and you have to search everybody's wallets until you find him. That's the least of your problems though. Firstly, Sunuv has Mystique and Zartan (who have shape shifted and have the appearances of civilians). So they can sneak up on you any time. Not to mention the cops show up. These aren't your typical doughnut consuming NYPD officers. These cops are actually T-800s disguised as cops. There are 7 of them. 4 have assault rifles, 2 have a shotgun, and 2 have riot shields. They come 7 minutes after you started your hostage situation. On top of that, Joker decided to join the party because well.... he's Joker. He also has 10 of his goons armed with pistols. They come 11 minutes after you started your hostage situation. There's also a bomb and Mr. Beach remotely triggers the timer for it. It is set for 20 minutes. And of course you can't forget about your competition that you will inevitably run into. However, you cannot allow Mr. Beach to die. The unknown man wants him alive and will not accept him dead. Find him quickly, defeat all opposition and competition, and get out. 
 
ImmortalOne: 

Dark Claw- Adatmanium skeleton (and claws), clawarangs, knockout gas.

Sub-Zero- Cryomancy, Kori Blade

Raiden- Hight frequency blade, Five-seveN pistol, FGM-148 Javelin, cyborg enhancements.

Deadshot- Kevlar armor, Wrist mounted magnums, L115A1 sniper rifle, M4 carbine.

Jango Fett- Mandalorian armor (durasteel), helmet, Dual Westar-34s, Z-6 jetpack (one missile), Model RDP-12 rocket launcher, and his two gauntlets.

Right Gauntlet- Dur-24 wrist lasers, ZX mini flame thrower

   

Left Gauntlet- MM9 mini concussion rocket and a Velocity-7 dart shooter

 
Rumble Man: 
   As some of these character's bio are unspecific about their powers, they will be nerfed down to stats that fit the guidelines. 
 
  If you have any questions, please refer to the rules and the setup on the original Tournament OP first. If those don't answer your question you may ask me. 
 
Good luck. 
#2 Posted by nickzambuto (12871 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice team

Online
#3 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Fett.. Where do you get those clever names?

Also Rumble, where do you find these forgoten Heros/Villains?

#4 Posted by nickthedevil (11567 posts) - - Show Bio

Good god, it's like all hell broke loose in this scenario. I feel like I got the easiest one :P

#5 Posted by Fetts (4405 posts) - - Show Bio
@CadenceV2: My brain :)
#6 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fetts: lol

#7 Posted by ImmortalOne (3293 posts) - - Show Bio

Deadshot would set up a sniper spot in the immediate area, guarding the rest of the team as they move along, but slowly advancing behind the others. This pretty much takes care of Mystique and Zartan. If Deadshot sees an ambush, he snipes them.

As for the T-800 cops, Raiden's high frequency blade is able to deflect bullets, and is probably able to cut through the titanium that Terminators are made of. Dark Claws healing factor will keep him alive against the T-800s, and his adatmanium claws will easily cut through them. Sub-Zero's cryomancy lets him freeze them in place, and assuming he's attacked, he could make a thick ice wall to guard himself. Jango Fett's armor would protect him against the Terminators' weapons, and his weaponry would let him kill the T-800s pretty easily. The Westar-34s and wrist laser, for example, would be able to pierce the titanium.

When Joker and his goons come, Jango's rocket would kill most of them, and any leftovers would be taken out quickly with the same reason as the Terminators. The team has abilities or armor that protect the against bullets, and lethal weaponry.

My team should be able to take out Rumble Man's team. Sorry Rumble Man, but your team just lacks the ability of doing any real damage. If Wonder Man and Iron Munro only have the abilities of jumping high, Raiden, Jango, or Deadshot could kill them through the use of firearms. The same goes for Black Terror. His dark matter could be countered by shooting him from a distance. Amazing Man' gas form escape isn't very helpful when in a fight. My team wouldn't really have to worry about him that much. Jango Fett would be able to take out Captain Triumph. Using the motion sensors and infrared vision in his helmet, Jango would be able to find and kill Captain Triumph if he were to turn invisible.

Now that I've got the fights out of the way, I'm going to explain how my team will find Sunuv. Sunuv's going to be holding the remote to the bomb, right? Well using his infrared vision, he can detect both the remote and the bomb. Sub-Zero would be sent to the bomb, and supercool it so it doesn't detonate, thus cheaply removing the time limit. Now that the bomb is nullified, the team will split up, so that they each approach Sunuv from a different angle, surrounding him. From then, a number of ways could be used to subdue Sunuv. Sub-Zero could freeze him, Dark Claw could use his knockout gas, Deadshot could shoot him in the leg, etc.

Mission Accomplished.

#8 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: PDSH database, golden age dudes

Procedure:

  • Skim with spirit
  • Set invisibility and flight on
  • Travel as pack and hit anything moving (always 5:1 ratio)
  • Dark Claw- Adatmanium skeleton (and claws), clawarangs, knockout gas. BFR through that open ceiling window would be the best option, no need wasting time on that guy. Batverine here even in close combat is problematic only because of the claws, speed and superior strength will cost bats a foothold in the match. (Pin down through ribs and skeletal gaps with chunks of metal)
  • Sub-Zero- Cryomancy, Kori Blade. Gang up and dismantle, only way to be sure. Two from the front and three from the back, this would not be that scenario in martial arts movies where they fight once at a time. This will be a scene from Animal Planet when a pack of hyenas tear open a dead gazelle. Zero is good on one on ones with named characters, but not against a lynching.
  • Raiden- Hight frequency blade, Five-seveN pistol, FGM-148 Javelin, cyborg enhancements. Only worry about that sword, that sword goddamnit why does it have to be that sword? But my team are not mooks like geckos nor frog troops (Strange even with both arms off when he got finished at the cutscene after the extended walk, even though he should be able to beat them). Also the fact that Raiden has never fought and won against opponent of equal stats (while in cyborg mode), let alone five and come out victorious (barely survived against the carrier in mgs4). Then again in this challenge Raiden would also be nerfed to follow the requirements of the challenge, which pits him against five opponents with the although some are superior (raiden had skin which can be penetrated by knives, he is under luke cage. Members of my team laugh at war cannons, so they are nerfed at cage's level) He's had problem with one man (vamp) who is squishier then he is when they are fighting seriously (watched the cutscene). His combat style makes him rush and ignore damage, which is not a smart thing to do when fighting five golden age supermen. In terms of agility they are also nerfed (a man who can react to bullets and against those who move faster than them). Five on one, and that is if they don't feel like sacrificing wonder man and giving the ring to black terror (who can also heal) or to triumph so his spirit brother can run amok without means to counter.
  • Dead(he will be)shot- Kevlar armor, Wrist mounted magnums, L115A1 sniper rifle, M4 carbine. No Problem whatsoever, shots are slow compared men who can run faster than speeding bullets. even if he can tag them they can tank the shots or resist them to get close for the kill.

Deadshot is the weak link here
  • Jango Fett- Mandalorian armor (durasteel), helmet, Dual Westar-34s, Z-6 jetpack (one missile), Model RDP-12 rocket launcher, and his two gauntlets. No Problem Whatsoever, i wonder how 25 ton strength level would do to a mandalorian. There is not place high enough to be safe from people given strength and jumping powers (old superman can hop over buildings in a single bound).

flight + strength + durability + invisibility = one dead bounty hunter

I am not worried because when I meant nerfed to fit the guidelines I meant towards the basic requirements so that their speed and agility will be on par with spider-man (no spider sense but adequate to aimdidge and laugh at fired bullets), whereas their durability and strengths are on par with luke cage's (as in you need more than military grade to have a chance of knocking some wind), one of them has healing which will be limited at deadpool level. Most of these guys are golden age superman facsimiles, some have even predated the man of steel. (in terms towards deadshot they will not perform like the 'closer' in the miniseries but rather). One of these guys has a unique ability that will help. (most of the guys in the golden age either fight nazis in the battle fields so yeah) Wonderman's ring and Triumph's spirit are the key here

Scorched Earth Dudes
  1. There are 100 people in the building and you have to search everybody's wallets until you find him. Triumph can 'separate' his enhancement giving me an advantage when it comes to intel by letting his brother's spirit form roam free, wonder man can give his ring to any of his allies to amp their already great stats and FYI Amazing Man served as inspiration for the badass Prince of Orphans in Iron Fist
  1. Firstly, Sunuv has Mystique and Zartan (who have shape shifted and have the appearances of civilians). So they can sneak up on you any time. Can they shapeshift out of an imploded ribcage where both lungs are rilled with splintered ribs?, they will get weeded out in the spinal tap. Five Guys acting like radar, if they are caught then they are as good as dead. Punches are not good for their health, especially when administered by super strong people.
  1. These cops are actually T-800s disguised as cops. There are 7 of them. 4 have assault rifles, 2 have a shotgun, and 2 have riot shields. Pulverize machinery with bare hands, and if they are powered by the violatile batteries then a bomb threat to nuke the place should be sufficient to negotiate demands and hostage transfer.

repeat this process until robot breaks
  1. On top of that, Joker decided to join the party because well.... he's Joker. My team will be doing both gotham and jason todd a favor by quartering the clown prince of crime by using hands. Superior stats and battlefield experience triumphs over popularity and PIS. Close in, dodge projectiles, grab limb, then tear new buttholes.
  1. He also has 10 of his goons armed with pistols. 11 minutes after.

Pretty much happens to anything that is not superhuman that refuses to fall down due to spinal tap
  1. There's also a bomb and Mr. Beach remotely triggers the timer for it. It is set for 20 minutes. As long as sunna does not die then it is not a problem or send spirit to do recon then throw bomb towards enemy.
  1. However, you cannot allow Mr. Beach to die. This goes as well for the opposing team, if they have any chance of winning my team will kill every person on sight this way nobody wins forcing it into a draw. Rush in a team of five and tap everyone on the spine, 25 ton strength when carefully applied with discretion should be enough to produce a chain of knock downs and crippled masses (did not say in what condition, terms only mention alive). If opponent is somewhat standing then give one more with full force to the head, a perimeter sweep will extend in a counter clockwise fashion.

They can uses pieces of rock, concrete, asphalt, etc. as thrown weapons ; if need be they can easily rip out a large chunk out of a nearby structure for this. Examples have included crushing a handful of concrete into dust to blind an opponent, picking gravel and using them as a sort of long-ranged shotgun blast, throwing a large chunk of masonry then leap and attack right behind it as the opponent is distracted. Anything They gets their hands on can be hurled at lethal velocities, even something as simple as a small rock. However, in a pinch, They will hurl anything solid enough and heavy enough to do damage, if they are within stat parameters. Against very fast opponents he will often use wide attacks (usually by picking something large, such as a statue, to use as a weapon). They can jump with great precision to attack flying enemies, jump between buildings, scale sheer obstacles with great power, etc.

How I win/draw:

  • sunnuv will be a cripple on the ground and I just have to check later
  • t-800 nuke battery used for negotiation, this ends successfully
  • sunnuv is dead and it is a draw

What's next?

#9 Posted by beatboks1 (6986 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fetts said:

Rumble Man:
As some of these character's bio are unspecific about their powers, they will be nerfed down to stats that fit the guidelines.

I don't know "that" Amazing man but as a fan and collector of Golden age comics every other character there except for Iron Munro is above GA Superman level. most would be around 50 to 70 tonne characters, bullet proof, with flight and sonic speed. Iron Munro was created for Young All Stars just post COIE to be the E-2 replacement of the no longer existing GA Superman. He is the only one who's close to within the limits. He was created to be the way that GA Superman was originally meant to be. 25 tonne would be his strength, he could leap over a 6 story building, he was bullet proof but an exploding shell would pierce his skin (he healed quickly though) and could run beside a none speeding car.

#10 Posted by beatboks1 (6986 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

Most of these guys are golden age superman facsimiles, some have even predated the man of steel.

None of them "predated Superman At all. Superman was created first in 1931 and pitched several times without success because most publishers saw him as a plagiarism of Whylie's Gladiator character. The first version was more like Lex Luthor with Superman's powers. It had several edits and was finally published in 38. Wonderman came next about 7 months later in 39, followed by then Captain Triumph, and Black terror were late 42 early 43. (all three were stopped in publication by national with threats of law suits). Iron (Arn) Munro was of course 1985 after COIE but he was written as the son of Hugo Danner who was the character of Whylie's novel Gladiator that Superman was believed to have been copied from ( a novel the Seigal and Shuster did a fan review of in a sci fi fanzine in 1930)

#11 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Fun Trivia dude, I have read both Whylie's Gladiator (rad book) and reign of superman (my fave version thus far)

My strategy is zombie/tyranid/zerg rush one at a time

they will stay together in an army like fashion and will use swarm intelligence to overwhelm almost any opponent.

#12 Edited by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Learn Something new everyday. Where can I find the Comic Heros who predat Superman at?

@Rumble Man: I can understand the Zombie/Tyranid/Zerg rush but all three of those require many weak monsters. U have Few Powerful monsters.

I think u mean a Vampire/Carnifex/Ultralisk rush....

#13 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: Well I do not want to be at a disadvantage against any of my opponents, nor a slim chance given for any of them (I am paranoid). Fair competition is a very bad thing, low blows, bad sportsmanship and cunning will help more. Realistically that helps too, since raiden and sub zero are top of priority list (have one guy mount on them then the other four to work as a team to pull out limbs. Like how ants work together to kill a crab in Nat Geo)

#14 Posted by beatboks1 (6986 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

@beatboks1: Learn Something new everyday. Where can I find the Comic Heros who predat Superman at?

There really aren't that many. The "pulp" era had The Shadow (1929 ), The Phantom (ghost who walks - 1936), Doc Savage (Man of Bronze - 1933), Tarzan (1912), Zorro (1919), Mandrake (1934). Most of them were only costumed fighters (or not so costumed) the only ones that really had any power were The Shadow and Mandrake. If you count radio serials i suppose you can add Green Hornet (34) and Lone Range (36)

The years I listed as as best I can remember. If i'm out I don't think it's by much

#15 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Can you tell me more about tarzan? i know him as the tree swinger who beats up tigers but I heard he is immortal, is that true?

#16 Posted by beatboks1 (6986 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man: Not to my knowledge. Immortalized on film and in literature maybe. Like I said the only ones with power were the Shadow with his TP/illusions and Mandrake with illusions. There was a funny paper character from the 20's with super strength but no "costume" or even a hero name eludes me ATM.

#17 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: The Shadow Knows! I love that guy. Even the movie was good.

#18 Edited by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

Terror and Munro fought in WWII while Amazing man fought in WWI so they have good experience and you can expect war combatives from them (fairbairn sykes)

#19 Posted by Fetts (4405 posts) - - Show Bio
@beatboks1 said:

@Fetts said:

Rumble Man:
As some of these character's bio are unspecific about their powers, they will be nerfed down to stats that fit the guidelines.

I don't know "that" Amazing man but as a fan and collector of Golden age comics every other character there except for Iron Munro is above GA Superman level. most would be around 50 to 70 tonne characters, bullet proof, with flight and sonic speed. Iron Munro was created for Young All Stars just post COIE to be the E-2 replacement of the no longer existing GA Superman. He is the only one who's close to within the limits. He was created to be the way that GA Superman was originally meant to be. 25 tonne would be his strength, he could leap over a 6 story building, he was bullet proof but an exploding shell would pierce his skin (he healed quickly though) and could run beside a none speeding car.

Ah. I was not aware of that. The character bios had little information on them. But it's no matter as he said himself he would nerf down the characters to fit the OP guidelines. 
#20 Posted by ImmortalOne (3293 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

@CadenceV2: PDSH database, golden age dudes

Procedure:

  • Skim with spirit
  • Set invisibility and flight on
  • Travel as pack and hit anything moving (always 5:1 ratio)
  • Dark Claw- Adatmanium skeleton (and claws), clawarangs, knockout gas. BFR through that open ceiling window would be the best option, no need wasting time on that guy. Batverine here even in close combat is problematic only because of the claws, speed and superior strength will cost bats a foothold in the match. (Pin down through ribs and skeletal gaps with chunks of metal)
  • Sub-Zero- Cryomancy, Kori Blade. Gang up and dismantle, only way to be sure. Two from the front and three from the back, this would not be that scenario in martial arts movies where they fight once at a time. This will be a scene from Animal Planet when a pack of hyenas tear open a dead gazelle. Zero is good on one on ones with named characters, but not against a lynching.
  • Raiden- Hight frequency blade, Five-seveN pistol, FGM-148 Javelin, cyborg enhancements. Only worry about that sword, that sword goddamnit why does it have to be that sword? But my team are not mooks like geckos nor frog troops (Strange even with both arms off when he got finished at the cutscene after the extended walk, even though he should be able to beat them). Also the fact that Raiden has never fought and won against opponent of equal stats (while in cyborg mode), let alone five and come out victorious (barely survived against the carrier in mgs4). Then again in this challenge Raiden would also be nerfed to follow the requirements of the challenge, which pits him against five opponents with the although some are superior (raiden had skin which can be penetrated by knives, he is under luke cage. Members of my team laugh at war cannons, so they are nerfed at cage's level) He's had problem with one man (vamp) who is squishier then he is when they are fighting seriously (watched the cutscene). His combat style makes him rush and ignore damage, which is not a smart thing to do when fighting five golden age supermen. In terms of agility they are also nerfed (a man who can react to bullets and against those who move faster than them). Five on one, and that is if they don't feel like sacrificing wonder man and giving the ring to black terror (who can also heal) or to triumph so his spirit brother can run amok without means to counter.
  • Dead(he will be)shot- Kevlar armor, Wrist mounted magnums, L115A1 sniper rifle, M4 carbine. No Problem whatsoever, shots are slow compared men who can run faster than speeding bullets. even if he can tag them they can tank the shots or resist them to get close for the kill.

Deadshot is the weak link here
  • Jango Fett- Mandalorian armor (durasteel), helmet, Dual Westar-34s, Z-6 jetpack (one missile), Model RDP-12 rocket launcher, and his two gauntlets. No Problem Whatsoever, i wonder how 25 ton strength level would do to a mandalorian. There is not place high enough to be safe from people given strength and jumping powers (old superman can hop over buildings in a single bound).

flight + strength + durability + invisibility = one dead bounty hunter

I am not worried because when I meant nerfed to fit the guidelines I meant towards the basic requirements so that their speed and agility will be on par with spider-man (no spider sense but adequate to aimdidge and laugh at fired bullets), whereas their durability and strengths are on par with luke cage's (as in you need more than military grade to have a chance of knocking some wind), one of them has healing which will be limited at deadpool level. Most of these guys are golden age superman facsimiles, some have even predated the man of steel. (in terms towards deadshot they will not perform like the 'closer' in the miniseries but rather). One of these guys has a unique ability that will help. (most of the guys in the golden age either fight nazis in the battle fields so yeah) Wonderman's ring and Triumph's spirit are the key here

So you just got a bunch of super powered people and gave them Spiderman speed and agility and Luke Cage strength, plus their abilities? That is so unfair.

Anyways, your strategy is to attack each individual part of my team, right? My team is going to be traveling in a pack similar to yours. Their not going to be all spread out, so that you can single them out. That plan won't work.

It doesn't matter about the invisibility, Jango's motion sensors and infrared vision will be able to detect them. My team has better range than yours, and once he picks up something, he can just use one of the FGA-583 nerve agents in his Model RDP-12 rocket launcher. When it hits, your whole team is unconscious in a matter of seconds. Either that, or Sub-Zero could just flash-freeze them, leaving them exposed to attacks.

#21 Edited by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImmortalOne:

So you just got a bunch of super powered people and gave them Spiderman speed and agility and Luke Cage strength, plus their abilities (they don't have that much abilities to begin with anyways) ? That is so unfair. (still within rules though)
Anyways, your strategy is to attack each individual part of my team, right? My team is going to be traveling in a pack similar to yours (your team has different people with different stats, , there is an order of strong to weak characters. start from bottom up). Their not going to be all spread out, so that you can single them out (create diversion, five 25 tonners can lift something big altogether how about a couple of escalators?). That plan won't work. (It still would, imagine a gang war , two gangs clash but five guys jumo one one guy while the rest of your gang tries to split them up. During that time that one target gets hurt. Badly. Your team is more scattered than mine's actually because you did mention in your post that "Deadshot would set up a sniper spot in the immediate area, guarding the rest of the team as they move along, but slowly advancing behind the others. This pretty much takes care of Mystique and Zartan. If Deadshot sees an ambush, he snipes them." and that leaves him vulnerable, not to mention his human stats. The thing you did that made my task hell was pairing up Raiden and Zero, but spamming objects and ganging up will make that a moot point. You would not have someone fly when there is a limit on the mall ceiling and based on the initial pic on the first post it seems that there are only two levels, that is a very bad way to engage people who can jump over buildings and fly (with invisibility).
It doesn't matter about the invisibility (spirit aided, not tech aided), Jango's motion sensors and infrared vision will be able to detect them (can he react in mid-air melee range?). My team has better range than yours, and once he picks up something, he can just use one of the FGA-583 nerve agents in his Model RDP-12 rocket launcher (Or he can get shot down with debris launched at the speed of bullets, which can be picked off the ground at any given time. Humans become bullets, chairs can be lobbed, even scrapped terminators with their power cores can give you a very bad day). When (when is the key word, they will be away before the gas spreads. Triumph has a force field by theway) it hits, your whole team is unconscious in a matter of seconds . Either that, or Sub-Zero could just flash-freeze them (in the games he needs range, which seems to be limited to mid range), leaving them exposed to attacks.

My counter:

  1. My team also has a maneuver, namely giving triumph's spirit and wonder man's ring to black terror. Imagine a team member which is basically luke cage with spiderman skills given a power boost that restores him back to non-street level powers. Then that stacked with another powerup that raises him higher, a sacrifice of two members is worthy if it can create a super weapon. Flight, invulnerability (toughness and force field), speed, strength, invisibility, regen and dark matter.
  2. Gas would not be used for escape but it nulls the aspect of poison gas.

Edit:

alone they may be at the limit of street level but with powers combined they can go soo much more

#22 Edited by ImmortalOne (3293 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

@ImmortalOne:

So you just got a bunch of super powered people and gave them Spiderman speed and agility and Luke Cage strength, plus their abilities (they don't have that much abilities to begin with anyways) ? That is so unfair. (still within rules though)
Anyways, your strategy is to attack each individual part of my team, right? My team is going to be traveling in a pack similar to yours (your team has different people with different stats, , there is an order of strong to weak characters. start from bottom up). Their not going to be all spread out, so that you can single them out (create diversion, five 25 tonners can lift something big altogether how about a couple of escalators?). That plan won't work. (It still would, imagine a gang war , two gangs clash but five guys jumo one one guy while the rest of your gang tries to split them up. During that time that one target gets hurt. Badly. Your team is more scattered than mine's actually because you did mention in your post that "Deadshot would set up a sniper spot in the immediate area, guarding the rest of the team as they move along, but slowly advancing behind the others. This pretty much takes care of Mystique and Zartan. If Deadshot sees an ambush, he snipes them." and that leaves him vulnerable, not to mention his human stats. The thing you did that made my task hell was pairing up Raiden and Zero, but spamming objects and ganging up will make that a moot point. You would not have someone fly when there is a limit on the mall ceiling and based on the initial pic on the first post it seems that there are only two levels, that is a very bad way to engage people who can jump over buildings and fly (with invisibility).
It doesn't matter about the invisibility (spirit aided, not tech aided), Jango's motion sensors and infrared vision will be able to detect them (can he react in mid-air melee range?). My team has better range than yours, and once he picks up something, he can just use one of the FGA-583 nerve agents in his Model RDP-12 rocket launcher (Or he can get shot down with debris launched at the speed of bullets, which can be picked off the ground at any given time. Humans become bullets, chairs can be lobbed, even scrapped terminators with their power cores can give you a very bad day). When (when is the key word, they will be away before the gas spreads. Triumph has a force field by theway) it hits, your whole team is unconscious in a matter of seconds . Either that, or Sub-Zero could just flash-freeze them (in the games he needs range, which seems to be limited to mid range), leaving them exposed to attacks.

My counter:

  1. My team also has a maneuver, namely giving triumph's spirit and wonder man's ring to black terror. Imagine a team member which is basically luke cage with spiderman skills given a power boost that restores him back to non-street level powers. Then that stacked with another powerup that raises him higher, a sacrifice of two members is worthy if it can create a super weapon. Flight, invulnerability (toughness and force field), speed, strength, invisibility, regen and dark matter.
  2. Gas would not be used for escape but it nulls the aspect of poison gas.

Edit:

alone they may be at the limit of street level but with powers combined they can go soo much more

1. If you all try to gang up on one member of the team, the others aren't just going to stand around. Actually, if you attacked one person, it'd work more to my favor, as the others could just attack you from behind.

2. Keep in mind that my team will probably be able to spot and attack you before you are able to attack us. The spirit intel would be a problem, but it won't matter if my team gets to attack first.

3. Same as point one. Your theory is that you can actually single them out without any damage to your team. If you attacked one of them, the rest of them would be nearby. Sub-Zero could freeze one, Dark Claw would cut down another with his claws, etc. True, you might be able to take someone out with your strategy, but my team will probably kill you first if you focus all your attention on one person at a time.

4. Deadshot would be factored in by Sub-Zero. Sub-Zero would flash-freeze some of the members of your team, leaving them vulnerable to Deadshot's bullets.

5. Just because he goes invisible through the help of a spirit doesn't mean he's not there. If he has mass and body heat, Jango can spot him.

6. Jango will probably spot you first. The spirit intel would need time to actually find my team, while Jango could just find you through his infrared vision and motion sensors. Then, a nerve toxin would knock out your whole team.

My counter:

  1. My team also has a maneuver, namely giving triumph's spirit and wonder man's ring to black terror. Imagine a team member which is basically luke cage with spiderman skills given a power boost that restores him back to non-street level powers. Then that stacked with another powerup that raises him higher, a sacrifice of two members is worthy if it can create a super weapon. Flight, invulnerability (toughness and force field), speed, strength, invisibility, regen and dark matter.
  2. Gas would not be used for escape but it nulls the aspect of poison gas.

1. I don't think you can just pass the spirit on to someone else. And I don't think Wonder Man would be allowed the ring, because that would put him above street level. Anyways, in the OP Fetts said the only power Wonder Man got was jumping high.

@Fetts: Is Wonder Man allowed his ring? Wouldn't that be against the rules of the tournament, because then he wouldn't be street level?

2. Don't really see how the gas would null the poison gas. The poison gas would still be there.

#23 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree that the Ring should be listed and it gives a unfair advantage in youll have a Superman beating everyone period thru this Tourney.

#24 Edited by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImmortalOne:

1. If you all try to gang up on one member of the team, the others aren't just going to stand around (of course they wont, but would they shot or attack risking damaging their own ally in the process? my team would). Actually, if you attacked one person, it'd work more to my favor, as the others could just attack you from behind (let me emphasize on hit and run then, since any member of my tema is physically able to literally carry any member of your team and throw them around like paper towels. In melee range your team can only hope to freeze or slash, any other member would not be contributing much. Pick up target, throw real hard at surface, run away and repeat process ad infinitum to damage while running away with superior team ).
2. Keep in mind that my team will probably be able to spot and attack you before you are able to attack us. The spirit intel would be a problem, but it won't matter if my team gets to attack first. (Not on spirit cloak, and thermal vision would be hampered holmes. You got my team's heat signature plus 100 other people's. Said spirit intel can interact with living matter, what's to say it won't be ordered to ghost choke your men?)
3. Same as point one. Your theory is that you can actually single them out without any damage to your team (Yes I can). If you attacked one of them, the rest of them would be nearby. Sub-Zero could freeze one (if he gets in range, and if his head was not imploded from the back), Dark Claw would cut down another with his claws (Too slow, GA stats narrowed down to spiderman speed and agility remember? with more than bullet dodging reflexes, batverine is not a speedster nor would he tag any of my guys. One hand to any of his limbs would BFR him outside the mall), etc. True, you might be able to take someone out with your strategy, but my team will probably kill you first if you focus all your attention on one person at a time. (Ahh, Ghost intel to kill the 'human' characters first then give ring to triumph so I can have ghost intel indefinitely to hinder anybody that presents a threat so I can mash them)
4. Deadshot would be factored in by Sub-Zero. Sub-Zero would flash-freeze some of the members of your team, leaving them vulnerable to Deadshot's bullets. (Sub zero needs range, in game it would be a stage but putting that in perspective it would be around the range of one room. That would be a problem were I a punisher level dude, but I can jump through walls at will or go above your range limits. You can't freeze nothing, and when your attack travels my team won't be there (the animations are not that fast in games that you would call them flash freeze)
5. Just because he goes invisible through the help of a spirit doesn't mean he's not there. If he has mass and body heat, Jango can spot him. (What would he do in mid air melee range? I saw what mace windu did, and mace in that movie is not as fast as my boys)
6. Jango will probably spot you first. The spirit intel would need time to actually find my team, while Jango could just find you through his infrared vision and motion sensors (does it come with skimming through 100 people all hot and moving, does it filter 7terminators with power cores? I don't think so). Then, a nerve toxin would knock out your whole team (Or a bench could find its way halfway through Jango's body before he even gets a chance to do that, and all my teal are capable of heavy duty lifting and throwing).
1. I don't think you can just pass the spirit on to someone else. And I don't think Wonder Man would be allowed the ring, because that would put him above street level (for all intents and purposes all my characters are nerfed down to for the requirements of this match, nobody by their own is above 25 tons (luke cage level) or sound speed (spiderman level)). Anyways, in the OP Fetts said the only power Wonder Man got was jumping high.

His powers is GA superman which includes jumping high

this happens in melee range, my team members are all fast, tough and very strong

@CadenceV2 said:

I agree that the Ring should be listed and it gives a unfair advantage in youll have a Superman beating everyone period thru this Tourney. (wanna cut a deal, two shots of the BFG and he goes down?)

It is a basic power of wonder man, without the ring he is effectively powerless (it is part of the power set, no it is a part of the character)). Taking that away would mean that I can change character or something similar (that would be like a punisher without guns, a deadshot without firearms or daredevil without his billy club). It evens out for the fact that they have no long range weaponry

alone each of them has the following attributes

  1. Luke cage strength and defense (he's a 25 tonner now, that is the uppermost limit for street level)
  2. Spiderman speed (reflexes too) and agility (I don't need to elaborate on this)
  3. Healing up to deadpools (Terror can heal)

Triumph does it by possession by spirit

Wonder does it by yogi ring (good luck trying to pry it out)

All are like that by default (some with a little more)

Alone they fit the bill combined they can do a lot of damage

#25 Posted by ImmortalOne (3293 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

It is a basic power of wonder man, without the ring he is effectively powerless (it is part of the power set, no it is a part of the character)). Taking that away would mean that I can change character or something similar (that would be like a punisher without guns, a deadshot without firearms or daredevil without his billy club). It evens out for the fact that they have no long range weaponry
alone each of them has the following attributes
  1. Luke cage strength and defense (he's a 25 tonner now, that is the uppermost limit for street level)
  1. Spiderman speed (reflexes too) and agility (I don't need to elaborate on this)
  1. Healing up to deadpools (Terror can heal)
Triumph does it by possession by spirit
Wonder does it by yogi ring (good luck trying to pry it out)
All are like that by default (some with a little more)
Alone they fit the bill combined they can do a lot of damage

1. It doesn't matter. With his ring, he has the powers of Golden Age Superman, which is above street level.

2. Your team is supposed to be nerfed. Iron Munro, Black Terror, and Amazing Man never had Spiderman speed, reflexes, or agility. Captain Triumph didn't have Spiderman reflexes and agility. Therefore, you can't give them those.

3. Black Terror is the only one of them that actually has healing. The rest of the team doesn't. So only Terror can be allowed healing.

@Rumble Man said:

@ImmortalOne:

1. If you all try to gang up on one member of the team, the others aren't just going to stand around (of course they wont, but would they shot or attack risking damaging their own ally in the process? my team would). Actually, if you attacked one person, it'd work more to my favor, as the others could just attack you from behind (let me emphasize on hit and run then, since any member of my tema is physically able to literally carry any member of your team and throw them around like paper towels. In melee range your team can only hope to freeze or slash, any other member would not be contributing much. Pick up target, throw real hard at surface, run away and repeat process ad infinitum to damage while running away with superior team ).
2. Keep in mind that my team will probably be able to spot and attack you before you are able to attack us. The spirit intel would be a problem, but it won't matter if my team gets to attack first. (Not on spirit cloak, and thermal vision would be hampered holmes. You got my team's heat signature plus 100 other people's. Said spirit intel can interact with living matter, what's to say it won't be ordered to ghost choke your men?)
3. Same as point one. Your theory is that you can actually single them out without any damage to your team (Yes I can). If you attacked one of them, the rest of them would be nearby. Sub-Zero could freeze one (if he gets in range, and if his head was not imploded from the back), Dark Claw would cut down another with his claws (Too slow, GA stats narrowed down to spiderman speed and agility remember? with more than bullet dodging reflexes, batverine is not a speedster nor would he tag any of my guys. One hand to any of his limbs would BFR him outside the mall), etc. True, you might be able to take someone out with your strategy, but my team will probably kill you first if you focus all your attention on one person at a time. (Ahh, Ghost intel to kill the 'human' characters first then give ring to triumph so I can have ghost intel indefinitely to hinder anybody that presents a threat so I can mash them)
4. Deadshot would be factored in by Sub-Zero. Sub-Zero would flash-freeze some of the members of your team, leaving them vulnerable to Deadshot's bullets. (Sub zero needs range, in game it would be a stage but putting that in perspective it would be around the range of one room. That would be a problem were I a punisher level dude, but I can jump through walls at will or go above your range limits. You can't freeze nothing, and when your attack travels my team won't be there (the animations are not that fast in games that you would call them flash freeze)
5. Just because he goes invisible through the help of a spirit doesn't mean he's not there. If he has mass and body heat, Jango can spot him. (What would he do in mid air melee range? I saw what mace windu did, and mace in that movie is not as fast as my boys)
6. Jango will probably spot you first. The spirit intel would need time to actually find my team, while Jango could just find you through his infrared vision and motion sensors (does it come with skimming through 100 people all hot and moving, does it filter 7terminators with power cores? I don't think so). Then, a nerve toxin would knock out your whole team (Or a bench could find its way halfway through Jango's body before he even gets a chance to do that, and all my teal are capable of heavy duty lifting and throwing).
1. I don't think you can just pass the spirit on to someone else. And I don't think Wonder Man would be allowed the ring, because that would put him above street level (for all intents and purposes all my characters are nerfed down to for the requirements of this match, nobody by their own is above 25 tons (luke cage level) or sound speed (spiderman level)). Anyways, in the OP Fetts said the only power Wonder Man got was jumping high.

His powers is GA superman which includes jumping high

this happens in melee range, my team members are all fast, tough and very strong

1. Well, since they're under my control, basically, yeah. It's not like they have such bad aims that they're going to miss with a blade.

2. In "melee range" is the key term there. Sub-Zero could just freeze all of them in place before they actually got in melee range. Anyways, my team doesn't have to be overly powerful to defeat your team in melee range. With a swipe, Dark Claw could kill or seriously injure your team, same with Raiden's High Frequency Blade. If you were to pick up one of them and try to throw them, they'd have time to kill you first.

3. So Captain Trimuph's spirit intel is basically invulnerable to all attacks and has the ability to choke my whole team to death?

5. To "implode Sub-Zero's head in from the back" you'd have to get in melee range. What's saying he can't freeze you first?

6. Spiderman isn't a speedster. Most of his dodging requires spider-sense. But your team doesn't have that. Any person on my team could probably tag Spiderman without his spider-sense.

7. You're saying that Sub-Zero needs range. Some of your team has Spidey level speed (which really isn't as fast as you put it) and absolutely no ranged attacks at all. How exactly do you expect to get near him without him freezing you first?

#26 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man: (wanna cut a deal, two shots of the BFG and he goes down?)

lol. I can live with that.

#27 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@CadenceV2: We have a deal pardner :)

I play this by how some athletes make weight level, first they lose to fit requirements then they buff back to normal condition

@ImmortalOne:

1. It doesn't matter (for all intents and purposes they are all nerfed to fit the upper most limit of street level described by fetts, and he did allow me to use these characters. Your point is nulled). With his ring, he has the powers of Golden Age Superman, which is above street level (Nope, nerfed down. Must I repeat this forever? I won't that is a rhetorical. This complain is coming from a guy who uses MGS4 Raiden?).
2. Your team is supposed to be nerfed. Iron Munro, Black Terror, and Amazing Man never had Spiderman speed, reflexes, or agility. Captain Triumph didn't have Spiderman reflexes and agility. Therefore, you can't give them those. (They dodge bullets in war times, and can catch them. Their reflexes are sometimes better than spiderman, hence why they are nerfed down. Munro is the son of a guy who has GA supes powers, and you expect him to not have super speed?. and as for the others I can use their strength, to emulate jumping to emulate speed)
3. Black Terror is the only one of them that actually has healing. The rest of the team doesn't. So only Terror can be allowed healing. (Yeah, but you know what? he can also be amped)
1. Well, since they're under my control, basically, yeah. It's not like they have such bad aims that they're going to miss with a blade. (only one guy is bladed, guess what he too is nerfed. 5 on 1 my odds are good.)
2. In "melee range" is the key term there. Sub-Zero could just freeze all of them in place before they actually got in melee range. Anyways, my team doesn't have to be overly powerful to defeat your team in melee range. With a swipe, Dark Claw could kill or seriously injure your team, same with Raiden's High Frequency Blade. If you were to pick up one of them and try to throw them, they'd have time to kill you first. (Batverine is Slow, Raiden is nerfed as well, Zero is a glass cannon (good attacks and crummy defense), depends who does the picking actually. DS and Fett are to weak and slow to react, some of my guys are faster than Batverine, zero can be overwhelmed from the back. Raiden can be rushed. I haven't even mention ring and soul spam)
3. So Captain Trimuph's spirit intel is basically invulnerable to all attacks and has the ability to choke my whole team to death? (that is part of the power, and it is just intel. Well the pic shows shivering touch, that was me with applciations)
5. To "implode Sub-Zero's head in from the back" you'd have to get in melee range. What's saying he can't freeze you first? (he freezes those on the front, how about three on the back or invisible one above him? Will he freeze two escalators above him)
6. Spiderman isn't a speedster. Most of his dodging requires spider-sense. But your team doesn't have that. Any person on my team could probably tag Spiderman without his spider-sense. (Bullet dodgers have reflexes by default, spider sense is something that gives him previous warnings. His agility and reflexes move his body to dodge the bullets. One of my boys have forcefield and spirit guide, and battle honed senses given their experience dodging bullets. Some bullets that would do crap against luke cage durability. Ever think what happens when one of my teammates picks up a weapon from your dead team members? your odds would be horrible if wonder picks up the high frequency blade.)
7. You're saying that Sub-Zero needs range. Some of your team has Spidey level speed (which really isn't as fast as you put it want me to link you to the nearest respect thread? we are talking about a guy that dodges lasers here) and absolutely no ranged attacks at all (I made multiple mentions of using the environment as their projectile weapon? a brick can be thrown at faster than bullet speeds. I can pick up anything left by the t-800's or the jokers). How exactly do you expect to get near him without him freezing you first? (Exploiting video game issues by moving aside, but jokes aside I will do what they did in the Mk Movie. A cup of water found in a mall can be an ice bullet at high speeds if Zero is dumb enough to activate his powers. Think )

Skip to 2:09, see what a non superhuman did? my team can do better

Call this 'slow' I dare you
#28 Edited by ImmortalOne (3293 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

@ImmortalOne:

1. It doesn't matter (for all intents and purposes they are all nerfed to fit the upper most limit of street level described by fetts, and he did allow me to use these characters. Your point is nulled). With his ring, he has the powers of Golden Age Superman, which is above street level (Nope, nerfed down. Must I repeat this forever? I won't that is a rhetorical. This complain is coming from a guy who uses MGS4 Raiden?).
2. Your team is supposed to be nerfed. Iron Munro, Black Terror, and Amazing Man never had Spiderman speed, reflexes, or agility. Captain Triumph didn't have Spiderman reflexes and agility. Therefore, you can't give them those. (They dodge bullets in war times, and can catch them. Their reflexes are sometimes better than spiderman, hence why they are nerfed down. Munro is the son of a guy who has GA supes powers, and you expect him to not have super speed?. and as for the others I can use their strength, to emulate jumping to emulate speed)
3. Black Terror is the only one of them that actually has healing. The rest of the team doesn't. So only Terror can be allowed healing. (Yeah, but you know what? he can also be amped)

1. Raiden fits the guidelines... unless you can explain why he doesn't. He's not as strong as Luke Cage, he's not as fast or agile as Spiderman. He's perfectly fine.

2. I was explaining point three because in your earlier post, you said individuality each one of them got Deadpool level healing.

@Rumble Man said:

Call this 'slow' I dare you
1. Well, since they're under my control, basically, yeah. It's not like they have such bad aims that they're going to miss with a blade. (only one guy is bladed, guess what he too is nerfed. 5 on 1 my odds are good.)
2. In "melee range" is the key term there. Sub-Zero could just freeze all of them in place before they actually got in melee range. Anyways, my team doesn't have to be overly powerful to defeat your team in melee range. With a swipe, Dark Claw could kill or seriously injure your team, same with Raiden's High Frequency Blade. If you were to pick up one of them and try to throw them, they'd have time to kill you first. (Batverine is Slow, Raiden is nerfed as well, Zero is a glass cannon (good attacks and crummy defense), depends who does the picking actually. DS and Fett are to weak and slow to react, some of my guys are faster than Batverine, zero can be overwhelmed from the back. Raiden can be rushed. I haven't even mention ring and soul spam)
3. So Captain Trimuph's spirit intel is basically invulnerable to all attacks and has the ability to choke my whole team to death? (that is part of the power, and it is just intel. Well the pic shows shivering touch, that was me with applciations)
5. To "implode Sub-Zero's head in from the back" you'd have to get in melee range. What's saying he can't freeze you first? (he freezes those on the front, how about three on the back or invisible one above him? Will he freeze two escalators above him)
6. Spiderman isn't a speedster. Most of his dodging requires spider-sense. But your team doesn't have that. Any person on my team could probably tag Spiderman without his spider-sense. (Bullet dodgers have reflexes by default, spider sense is something that gives him previous warnings. His agility and reflexes move his body to dodge the bullets. One of my boys have forcefield and spirit guide, and battle honed senses given their experience dodging bullets. Some bullets that would do crap against luke cage durability. Ever think what happens when one of my teammates picks up a weapon from your dead team members? your odds would be horrible if wonder picks up the high frequency blade.)
7. You're saying that Sub-Zero needs range. Some of your team has Spidey level speed (which really isn't as fast as you put it want me to link you to the nearest respect thread? we are talking about a guy that dodges lasers here) and absolutely no ranged attacks at all (I made multiple mentions of using the environment as their projectile weapon? a brick can be thrown at faster than bullet speeds. I can pick up anything left by the t-800's or the jokers). How exactly do you expect to get near him without him freezing you first? (Exploiting video game issues by moving aside, but jokes aside I will do what they did in the Mk Movie. A cup of water found in a mall can be an ice bullet at high speeds if Zero is dumb enough to activate his powers. Think )

Skip to 2:09, see what a non superhuman did? my team can do better

1. I was using blade as an example. And if Raiden is nerfed, he shouldn't be. Dark Claw has his adatmanium claws, Sub-Zero has Cryomancy, Jango has his firearms. And Jango's blasters will work. Luke Cage's skin has been lacerated by lasers before. Even if his blasters don't work, he's still got Dur-24 wrist lasers, nerve toxin and a whole bunch of other weapons, remember?

2. Most of Spiderman's dodging requires the spider-sense. Without it, it's easier to land a hit on him. Dark Claw fast enough to swing his arm and make contact.

See that? Anybody on my team could replicate that.

And for Pete's sake, Sub-Zero isn't deaf! He's probably going to notice if you approach him from behind. And since they're in a pack, others will notice if he doesn't.

3. So you single out one of them, and then what? The way your describing it, you act like you single out one of them, without any struggle or help from the other team. You leave yourself exposed when you focus all your energy on one of them. Then, the rest of the team would rush you, and probably kill you all. What about this don't you get? The other team members aren't going to stand around and watch while you kill one of them!

Now, I'm going to use your logic for a second. My team will all rush Iron Munro. Combined they have enough power to kill him. Then, they just move onto to the other teammates. If all of them rushed each one, they could kill each individual member of your team. See? Total disregard for what the other teammates are doing, how the target could fight back, etc.

4. If you attack Sub-Zero from behind, he or a teammate will probably notice you. What about that don't you get? He's not condemned to always facing the front, you know.

5. Yes, Spiderman can dodge bullets, but again, most of the help comes from spider-sense. My team could attack you from behind, or attack you with there weapon up close.

6. The MK movie is non-canon, and that was a load of BS. Anyways, Sub-Zero can create structures using his Cryomancy. Walls, shields, ice clones (which freeze on contact), and more.

#29 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImmortalOne:

  • Raiden held the ship (does that look like 25 tons?)
1. I was using blade as an example. And if Raiden is nerfed, he shouldn't be (strength to casually lift and throw gekkos plus speed to dodge bullets. He will be).
Dark Claw has his adatmanium claws (but lack of feats), Sub-Zero has Cryomancy (but weak body), Jango has his firearms (which have slow lasers in the movie). And Jango's blasters will work (provided they hit).
Luke Cage's skin has been lacerated by lasers before. Even if his blasters don't work, he's still got Dur-24 wrist lasers, nerve toxin and a whole bunch of other weapons (you want to use darts?), remember?
2. Most of Spiderman's dodging requires the spider-sense (and his given speed plus his reflexes to move his body out of harm's way). Without it, it's easier to land a hit on him. Dark Claw fast enough to swing his arm and make contact.

See that? Anybody on my team could replicate that (and shatter their knuckles in the process, because only raiden is packing enough strength and even he is quite fragile. Jango and DS peak human?)
And for Pete's sake, Sub-Zero isn't deaf! He's probably going to notice if you approach him from behind (in game does he have an omnidirectional attack?). And since they're in a pack, others will notice if he doesn't. (that makes two others, since DS and Fett will be dead)
3. So you single out one of them, and then what (Kill them, do you expect a tea party? ever watched a zombie movie where the horde rips a guy )?
The way your describing it, you act like you single out one of them, without any struggle (Jango will be struggling with in mid air, DS will be struggling for dear life first, sub zero will be struggling from thrown escalators, batverine wil be struggling outside the mall after BFR and raiden will be overwhelmed. This is without ring or soul amp btw ) or help (a white flag probably) from the other team. (Depends on how it goes, your anti team attack would be ranged attacks well my team can throw interior structures at you)
You leave yourself exposed when you focus all your energy on one of them (superhuman stamina).
Then, the rest of the team would rush you, and probably kill you all.
What about this don't you get? (Anybody besides raiden posing any real tangible threat)
The other team members aren't going to stand around and watch while you kill one of them! (They will be pelted by objects flying towards them at super speed, remember that strategy in page 1)
Now, I'm going to use your logic for a second.
My team will all rush Iron Munro. (who can leap into safety because of nerfed GA supes stats. Provided, you can get all your team to his position on time knowing he is in a group while you said in your initial post that Fett will be airborne, and DS sets a perimeter, while batverine , subs and raiden go forward at a team. you are originally separated but stuck into a team after thinking its suddenly convenient. )
Combined they have enough power to kill him. (they will have to get there first by navigating through, the only members with that kind of mobility are jango and raiden. One of which will die the instant he appears in sight and another that can get ganged up nicely. Most of my team have flight, speed or jumps even spiritual backup as projectile weaponry. You are limited to one cyber ninja, one jetpack, a marksman with a limited range of guns, a mish mash of two non fast guys and an ice ninja who can skate through)
Then, they just move onto to the other teammates (I wish you luck beating an amped terror, and sub's freezing lasts quickly in game when not used against a battered opponent).
If all of them rushed each one (except two would be dead and three will be dealt with), they could kill each individual member of your team.
See? Total disregard for what the other teammates are doing, how the target could fight back, etc.
4. If you attack Sub-Zero from behind (Congrats catching an escalator or multiple fragments of floor tiles thrown at bullet speed), he or a teammate will probably notice you (will they react fast enough, my team can but yours? their stats are too imbalanced).
What about that don't you get (BTW a pack operates when its members are equal, your team is held by raiden and zero. The others are dependent)? He's not condemned to always facing the front, you know.
5. Yes, Spiderman can dodge bullets, but again, most of the help comes from spider-sense (he needs his speed and reflexes to move his body. The training with shang helped him to dodge w/o spider sense and iron fist trained him to catch bullets. give jimmy olsen spider sense, he would know when and where it goes but will never be able to dodge it after its fired.).
My team could attack you from behind (If you can get there), or attack you with there weapon up close.(your odds are better at a distance. Raiden has problems with vamp, and sub can be beaten by those with weaker stats than my team (liu kang))
6. The MK movie is non-canon, and that was a load of BS. Anyways, Sub-Zero can create structures using his Cryomancy. Walls (how hard), shields (how durable), ice clones (which freeze on contact (for a few seconds)), and more.
#30 Edited by ImmortalOne (3293 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

@ImmortalOne:

  • Raiden held the ship (does that look like 25 tons?)
1. I was using blade as an example. And if Raiden is nerfed, he shouldn't be (strength to casually lift and throw gekkos plus speed to dodge bullets. He will be).
Dark Claw has his adatmanium claws (but lack of feats), Sub-Zero has Cryomancy (but weak body), Jango has his firearms (which have slow lasers in the movie). And Jango's blasters will work (provided they hit).
Luke Cage's skin has been lacerated by lasers before. Even if his blasters don't work, he's still got Dur-24 wrist lasers, nerve toxin and a whole bunch of other weapons (you want to use darts?), remember?
2. Most of Spiderman's dodging requires the spider-sense (and his given speed plus his reflexes to move his body out of harm's way). Without it, it's easier to land a hit on him. Dark Claw fast enough to swing his arm and make contact.

See that? Anybody on my team could replicate that (and shatter their knuckles in the process, because only raiden is packing enough strength and even he is quite fragile. Jango and DS peak human?)
And for Pete's sake, Sub-Zero isn't deaf! He's probably going to notice if you approach him from behind (in game does he have an omnidirectional attack?). And since they're in a pack, others will notice if he doesn't. (that makes two others, since DS and Fett will be dead)
3. So you single out one of them, and then what (Kill them, do you expect a tea party? ever watched a zombie movie where the horde rips a guy )?
The way your describing it, you act like you single out one of them, without any struggle (Jango will be struggling with in mid air, DS will be struggling for dear life first, sub zero will be struggling from thrown escalators, batverine wil be struggling outside the mall after BFR and raiden will be overwhelmed. This is without ring or soul amp btw ) or help (a white flag probably) from the other team. (Depends on how it goes, your anti team attack would be ranged attacks well my team can throw interior structures at you)
You leave yourself exposed when you focus all your energy on one of them (superhuman stamina).
Then, the rest of the team would rush you, and probably kill you all.
What about this don't you get? (Anybody besides raiden posing any real tangible threat)
The other team members aren't going to stand around and watch while you kill one of them! (They will be pelted by objects flying towards them at super speed, remember that strategy in page 1)
Now, I'm going to use your logic for a second.
My team will all rush Iron Munro. (who can leap into safety because of nerfed GA supes stats. Provided, you can get all your team to his position on time knowing he is in a group while you said in your initial post that Fett will be airborne, and DS sets a perimeter, while batverine , subs and raiden go forward at a team. you are originally separated but stuck into a team after thinking its suddenly convenient. )
Combined they have enough power to kill him. (they will have to get there first by navigating through, the only members with that kind of mobility are jango and raiden. One of which will die the instant he appears in sight and another that can get ganged up nicely. Most of my team have flight, speed or jumps even spiritual backup as projectile weaponry. You are limited to one cyber ninja, one jetpack, a marksman with a limited range of guns, a mish mash of two non fast guys and an ice ninja who can skate through)
Then, they just move onto to the other teammates (I wish you luck beating an amped terror, and sub's freezing lasts quickly in game when not used against a battered opponent).
If all of them rushed each one (except two would be dead and three will be dealt with), they could kill each individual member of your team.
See? Total disregard for what the other teammates are doing, how the target could fight back, etc.
4. If you attack Sub-Zero from behind (Congrats catching an escalator or multiple fragments of floor tiles thrown at bullet speed), he or a teammate will probably notice you (will they react fast enough, my team can but yours? their stats are too imbalanced).
What about that don't you get (BTW a pack operates when its members are equal, your team is held by raiden and zero. The others are dependent)? He's not condemned to always facing the front, you know.
5. Yes, Spiderman can dodge bullets, but again, most of the help comes from spider-sense (he needs his speed and reflexes to move his body. The training with shang helped him to dodge w/o spider sense and iron fist trained him to catch bullets. give jimmy olsen spider sense, he would know when and where it goes but will never be able to dodge it after its fired.).
My team could attack you from behind (If you can get there), or attack you with there weapon up close.(your odds are better at a distance. Raiden has problems with vamp, and sub can be beaten by those with weaker stats than my team (liu kang))
6. The MK movie is non-canon, and that was a load of BS. Anyways, Sub-Zero can create structures using his Cryomancy. Walls (how hard), shields (how durable), ice clones (which freeze on contact (for a few seconds)), and more.

1. Why are you asking about the darts? Obviously the darts won't work, but he's still got the blasters, wrist laser, nerve toxin, a flame thrower and two missiles.

2. I never said they were going to punch him. I was using the picture as an example of being tagged. As for Zero, the point is, he's going to notice if you try to sneak up on him. Then he'll do a simple thing called turning around.

3. So while you focus all your energy on tearing apart one guy, namely Deadshot, Jango could could kill you with his blaster and wrist laser or knock out all of you with his nerve toxin. Dark Claw could take out some with his claws or knockout gas. Sub-Zero could flash freeze them, leaving them immobile, or shattering him to pieces. Finally, Raiden would kill you with his High Frequency Blade. If you focus all your energy on killing one guy, my team would slaughter yours. They have the means to do so.

4. Sub-Zero's been able to turn into liquid or gas form before.

Skip to about 0:53 and you should see it. And ignore the fights. Those were player controlled and complete PIS.

5. The spider sense is a big help though. Without it, he'd be more vulnerable. A sudden sneak attack or feint by Dark Claw (for example) would kill them. Or, if they were at close range, some continued slashes and he would get hit.

Attacking from a range was my starting point... Jango could hit them with his missile launcher, nerve toxin, or a continued spray of lasers from his blasters. But if they had to get in melee range, my team has the means of giving a fight.

6. His ice seems to be tougher than normal, as he has an ice sword (Kori Blade) that never shatters. He'll just keep on layering the wall until its enough.

#31 Edited by beatboks1 (6986 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:


alone each of them has the following attributes

  1. Luke cage strength and defense (he's a 25 tonner now, that is the uppermost limit for street level)
  2. Spiderman speed (reflexes too) and agility (I don't need to elaborate on this)
  3. Healing up to deadpools (Terror can heal)

Triumph does it by possession by spirit

Wonder does it by yogi ring (good luck trying to pry it out)

All are like that by default (some with a little more)

Alone they fit the bill combined they can do a lot of damage

Your supposed to lower the stats that your higher in, that doesn't mean you can raise the ones your lower in. None of your team members have ever displayed agility even close to Spiderman. The only one who has ever shown a healing factor was Iron Munro, and it was at a level far below that of Deadpool. It took him 12 hrs in a hospital to recover from being slashed by Fury's claws as I recall. He did recover on his own and his recovery was surprising. He was also out for over an hour after facing the Valkyrie when TNT was killed and taken to Valhalla. Deadpool would have regrown organs in a fraction of that time. The fact is for the others on your team you have no proof of any healing factor, they were never damaged to require one. As their durability has been lowered you have no idea how they will come back from an injury.

#32 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImmortalOne:

1. but he's still got the blasters (slow in movies), wrist laser (same), nerve toxin (no chance given), a flame thrower (dodgeable) and two missiles
3. So while you focus all your energy on tearing apart one guy, namely Deadshot (by spamming projectiles), Jango could could kill you with his blaster and wrist laser (dude, this one has a low percentage) or knock out all of you with his nerve toxin (is this by canister, gas spray or gas grenade?).As for Zero, the point is, he's going to notice if you try to sneak up on him. Then he'll do a simple thing called turning around (the ones on the other side will get him).
Dark Claw could take out some with his claws or knockout gas.
Sub-Zero could flash freeze them, leaving them immobile, or shattering him to pieces. (only in fatalities, where the enemy is battered and beaten)
Finally, Raiden would kill you with his High Frequency Blade. If you focus all your energy on killing one guy (I have range options too and fastball special), my team would slaughter yours. They have the means to do so.
4. Sub-Zero's been able to turn into liquid or gas form before. (neat trick but if that enables intangibility in gas form or healing above DP in gas/liquid form that that has to be nerfed)

Skip to about 0:53 and you should see it. And ignore the fights. Those were player controlled and complete PIS. ( I will be a nice guy and not focus on his inability to sidestep, and his ice blasts are shotgun like in spray effect. But if sonya can damage him (not the win but the fact that she can damage the ice ninja))
A sudden sneak attack or feint by Dark Claw (for example) would kill them (only from an awkward range). Or, if they were at close range, some continued slashes and he would get hit.
6. His ice seems to be tougher than normal, as he has an ice sword (Kori Blade) that never shatters. He'll just keep on layering the wall until its enough.Attacking from a range was my starting point... Jango could hit them with his missile launcher, nerve toxin, or a continued spray of lasers from his blasters. But if they had to get in melee range, (half) my team has the means of giving a fight.

@beatboks1:

  • Your supposed to lower the stats that your higher in, that doesn't mean you can raise the ones your lower in. (just application of their power)
  • None of your team members have ever displayed agility even close to Spiderman. (but most of them do have a measure of great mobility in terms of speed , most can react to firearms and artillery)
  • The only one who has ever shown a healing factor was Iron Munro (weird it said in the CV bio that terror can heal), and it was at a level far below that of Deadpool.
  • It took him 12 hrs in a hospital to recover from being slashed by Fury's claws as I recall.
  • He did recover on his own and his recovery was surprising.
  • He was also out for over an hour after facing the Valkyrie when TNT was killed and taken to Valhalla. Deadpool would have regrown organs in a fraction of that time. The fact is for the others on your team you have no proof of any healing factor, they were never damaged to require one. As their durability has been lowered you have no idea how they will come back from an injury. (Luke cage's durabilty is good enough)
#33 Posted by beatboks1 (6986 posts) - - Show Bio

Sorry to intrude on the debate, but there are VERY few on several forums who are as familiar as I am with Golden Age characters (my collection includes over 400 pre 1950 comics and several books written on the subject) which means no one else is really equipped to point this out.

@Rumble Man said:

@beatboks1:
  • Your supposed to lower the stats that your higher in, that doesn't mean you can raise the ones your lower in. (just application of their power)
  • None of your team members have ever displayed agility even close to Spiderman. (but most of them do have a measure of great mobility in terms of speed , most can react to firearms and artillery)
  • The only one who has ever shown a healing factor was Iron Munro (weird it said in the CV bio that terror can heal), and it was at a level far below that of Deadpool.
  • It took him 12 hrs in a hospital to recover from being slashed by Fury's claws as I recall.
  • He did recover on his own and his recovery was surprising.
  • He was also out for over an hour after facing the Valkyrie when TNT was killed and taken to Valhalla. Deadpool would have regrown organs in a fraction of that time. The fact is for the others on your team you have no proof of any healing factor, they were never damaged to require one. As their durability has been lowered you have no idea how they will come back from an injury. (Luke cage's durabilty is good enough)
  • Agility to the level of Spiderman and healing factor isn't an application of their power. You chose characters who are over powered on many of the limitations. As I understood it you were going to lower the stats to fit within the rules. Lowering the strength, durability and speed of these characters does not mean you can take liberties and raise other characteristics that were not that high to compensate.
  • Agility is not speed. It has to do with changing direction and body position in perfect control. The agility of most of your characters wouldn't match that of several non enhanced comics characters, it's certainly not matching Spiderman. Their ability to react to
  • CV is a wiki, editable by members. In his 90's version (printed under public Domain) I believe he does have healing. Since however that version has much lower stats on most of the other things than I believe you'd like ( he would have had to be powered up not down to be at the limits) I assumed you were taking his Nedor publishing version form the 40's or the Dynamite one from more recently. That one doesn't heal.

Just because these characters were 40's take off's of the original Superman doesn't mean they all his powers. The fact is feat wise the combined feats of Captain Triumph, Amazing man and Wonder man amount to little more than the equivalent of a dozen modern comics, and average showings at that ( your average comic story back then went between 6 to 9 pages long and these guys total appearances were only 60 between the three). Wonder man had one only 9 page adventure with very little to offer in the way of feats (No wonder even i didn't know this one)

#34 Posted by ImmortalOne (3293 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

@ImmortalOne:

1. but he's still got the blasters (slow in movies), wrist laser (same), nerve toxin (no chance given), a flame thrower (dodgeable) and two missiles
3. So while you focus all your energy on tearing apart one guy, namely Deadshot (by spamming projectiles), Jango could could kill you with his blaster and wrist laser (dude, this one has a low percentage) or knock out all of you with his nerve toxin (is this by canister, gas spray or gas grenade?).As for Zero, the point is, he's going to notice if you try to sneak up on him. Then he'll do a simple thing called turning around (the ones on the other side will get him).
Dark Claw could take out some with his claws or knockout gas.
Sub-Zero could flash freeze them, leaving them immobile, or shattering him to pieces. (only in fatalities, where the enemy is battered and beaten)
Finally, Raiden would kill you with his High Frequency Blade. If you focus all your energy on killing one guy (I have range options too and fastball special), my team would slaughter yours. They have the means to do so.
4. Sub-Zero's been able to turn into liquid or gas form before. (neat trick but if that enables intangibility in gas form or healing above DP in gas/liquid form that that has to be nerfed)

Skip to about 0:53 and you should see it. And ignore the fights. Those were player controlled and complete PIS. ( I will be a nice guy and not focus on his inability to sidestep, and his ice blasts are shotgun like in spray effect. But if sonya can damage him (not the win but the fact that she can damage the ice ninja))
A sudden sneak attack or feint by Dark Claw (for example) would kill them (only from an awkward range). Or, if they were at close range, some continued slashes and he would get hit.
6. His ice seems to be tougher than normal, as he has an ice sword (Kori Blade) that never shatters. He'll just keep on layering the wall until its enough.Attacking from a range was my starting point... Jango could hit them with his missile launcher, nerve toxin, or a continued spray of lasers from his blasters. But if they had to get in melee range, (half) my team has the means of giving a fight.

@beatboks1:

  • Your supposed to lower the stats that your higher in, that doesn't mean you can raise the ones your lower in. (just application of their power)
  • None of your team members have ever displayed agility even close to Spiderman. (but most of them do have a measure of great mobility in terms of speed , most can react to firearms and artillery)
  • The only one who has ever shown a healing factor was Iron Munro (weird it said in the CV bio that terror can heal), and it was at a level far below that of Deadpool.
  • It took him 12 hrs in a hospital to recover from being slashed by Fury's claws as I recall.
  • He did recover on his own and his recovery was surprising.
  • He was also out for over an hour after facing the Valkyrie when TNT was killed and taken to Valhalla. Deadpool would have regrown organs in a fraction of that time. The fact is for the others on your team you have no proof of any healing factor, they were never damaged to require one. As their durability has been lowered you have no idea how they will come back from an injury. (Luke cage's durabilty is good enough)

1. Doesn't matter if it's slow or not. You try dodging a constant stream of blaster bolts. If Jango can maintain fire, he should hit you eventually. If you stop for even a second, then you'd be struck and killed. And nerve toxin would probably work work. It's grenade gas propelled by a rocket launcher. He just has to get it near you and the gas would knock you unconscious.

2. Sub-Zero isn't going to be all alone. He's going to be helped by his teammates. If someone sneaks up on him, then one of my teammates would help Sub-Zero.

3. If he can do it in fatalities, he should be able to do it anytime. We all know the fatalities are merely a gameplay function. If they wanted to, the characters would do their fatalities at the beginning of the match.

4. It didn't seem like intangibility. More like turning into ice as a transportation option. But I can use it for dodging attacks here. For instance, he could dodge a projectile thrown by your team by turning into the mist/ice form.

5. beatboks1 is right. Most of your team never had Spiderman agility, but you are giving it to them. Speed and agility are not the same thing.

#35 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImmortalOne:

Doesn't matter if it's slow or not. You try dodging a constant stream of blaster bolts. If Jango can maintain fire, he should hit you eventually. If you stop for even a second, then you'd be struck and killed. And nerve toxin would probably work work. It's grenade gas propelled by a rocket launcher. He just has to get it near you and the gas would knock you unconscious.

Would you rely on something that will 'eventually' hit? given the fact that we can use any of the 100 people nearby as human shields, which would do nothing to stop the blasts but there is a 1/100 chance that that may be beach. You hit that and its a draw.

Luke cage durability, I can say similar in that regard because the some of my guys (triumph) does in fact possess invulnerability. If interested i can fetch a scan of cage tanking laser shots.

Speed and agility are not the same thing.

Sure, but any members of my team can just jump out the way. There are more ways to dodge lasers than play twister in mid air you know.

If he can do it in fatalities, he should be able to do it anytime. We all know the fatalities are merely a gameplay function. If they wanted to, the characters would do their fatalities at the beginning of the match.

Never once on any media of MK has he gone straight for the kill agains't a named character. As for the teleportation thing, is that only in pre battle animation or is that move actually usable in the combat gameplay?

#36 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@Rumble Man said:


alone each of them has the following attributes

  1. Luke cage strength and defense (he's a 25 tonner now, that is the uppermost limit for street level)
  2. Spiderman speed (reflexes too) and agility (I don't need to elaborate on this)
  3. Healing up to deadpools (Terror can heal)

Triumph does it by possession by spirit

Wonder does it by yogi ring (good luck trying to pry it out)

All are like that by default (some with a little more)

Alone they fit the bill combined they can do a lot of damage

Your supposed to lower the stats that your higher in, that doesn't mean you can raise the ones your lower in. None of your team members have ever displayed agility even close to Spiderman. The only one who has ever shown a healing factor was Iron Munro, and it was at a level far below that of Deadpool. It took him 12 hrs in a hospital to recover from being slashed by Fury's claws as I recall. He did recover on his own and his recovery was surprising. He was also out for over an hour after facing the Valkyrie when TNT was killed and taken to Valhalla. Deadpool would have regrown organs in a fraction of that time. The fact is for the others on your team you have no proof of any healing factor, they were never damaged to require one. As their durability has been lowered you have no idea how they will come back from an injury.

Im glad your here. I was like WTF!? On with the debate!

#37 Posted by ImmortalOne (3293 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

@ImmortalOne:

Doesn't matter if it's slow or not. You try dodging a constant stream of blaster bolts. If Jango can maintain fire, he should hit you eventually. If you stop for even a second, then you'd be struck and killed. And nerve toxin would probably work work. It's grenade gas propelled by a rocket launcher. He just has to get it near you and the gas would knock you unconscious.

Would you rely on something that will 'eventually' hit? given the fact that we can use any of the 100 people nearby as human shields, which would do nothing to stop the blasts but there is a 1/100 chance that that may be beach. You hit that and its a draw.

Luke cage durability, I can say similar in that regard because the some of my guys (triumph) does in fact possess invulnerability. If interested i can fetch a scan of cage tanking laser shots.

Speed and agility are not the same thing.

Sure, but any members of my team can just jump out the way. There are more ways to dodge lasers than play twister in mid air you know.

If he can do it in fatalities, he should be able to do it anytime. We all know the fatalities are merely a gameplay function. If they wanted to, the characters would do their fatalities at the beginning of the match.

Never once on any media of MK has he gone straight for the kill agains't a named character. As for the teleportation thing, is that only in pre battle animation or is that move actually usable in the combat gameplay?

1. If you pause, the stream of blaster bolts will hit you. The point of what Jango is doing is keeping you at a distance with his blaster bolts. Anyways, if the blasters don't work, there's always the nerve toxin.

2. You still can't give your team Spiderman level agility. They never had it.

3. Fatalities are only at the end of the match because the game developers don't want you killing your opponents at the beginning of the match, or else it'd kill the point. He can flash freeze someone and shatter him, so I'd say he doesn't only have to use it against defeated opponents. As for the turning into ice/mist thing, it's not a move in the game, or a pre-battle animation. However, since it was in the storyline, I'd say he can do it.

#38 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImmortalOne:

speed is a good compensation

nerve toxin which has a good chance of killing beach as well

Is there a set range for the ice teleportation ?

#39 Edited by ImmortalOne (3293 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

@ImmortalOne:

speed is a good compensation

nerve toxin which has a good chance of killing beach as well

Is there a set range for the ice teleportation ?

1. I'm fine with speed, as long as they've had it before.

2. There's always Dark Claw's knockout gas.

3. It's not teleportation, it seems to be transformation. Like turning into ice/mist and moving through those means.

By the way, PM me when you're ready for voting.

Edit: Ready for voting!

#40 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Alright this is hard one.

I have a split desicion here.

The Team vs Team I give it to Immortal One. He has more Options and Characters who have and can take down these Nerfed down Superman with ease in some cases.

Rumble Man on the other hand has a better way of carrying out the mission. Breaking everyones backs and using a T-800 Nukk Fuel Cell as a bomb threat. It would be easier.

Close.

#41 Edited by nickzambuto (12871 posts) - - Show Bio

Giving my vote to ImmortalOne, but it was a tough choice between you two.

Online
#42 Posted by Fetts (4405 posts) - - Show Bio

Would anybody else like to vote here?

#43 Posted by Sherlock (7232 posts) - - Show Bio

My sincerest appologies here but this debate is ridiculous.

If we can nerf down any character we choose then whats to stop me from using say Carnage on my team?

He does in fact own every physical characteristic in this thing easily.That just gives me someone who has the highest stats that you can possibly have.To top that of i wouldnt even be able to debate with Carnage anymore since he is so far above the rules.I would have to use Spidey and Luke feats to back my claims and frankly thats just stupid sorry but im not voting here

#44 Posted by ImmortalOne (3293 posts) - - Show Bio

Come on people, we need more votes.

#45 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

I made my mind. Sherlock.

#46 Posted by Fetts (4405 posts) - - Show Bio
@CadenceV2: Lol. I think your in the wrong thread buddy.
#47 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fetts said:

@CadenceV2: Lol. I think your in the wrong thread buddy.

Huh? What I did? Oh I see. Most people voted Immortal One? Call me a rebel Thinker :)

#48 Posted by Fetts (4405 posts) - - Show Bio
@CadenceV2: No you said Sherlock. This fight is between Rumble Man and ImmortalOne. You have to vote for one of them. :)
#49 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fetts said:

@CadenceV2: No you said Sherlock. This fight is between Rumble Man and ImmortalOne. You have to vote for one of them. :)

(Face Palm) Its been a LOOONG day at work :). Immortal One! For the Team Versatility.

#50 Posted by nickzambuto (12871 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sherlock said:

My sincerest appologies here but this debate is ridiculous.

If we can nerf down any character we choose then whats to stop me from using say Carnage on my team?

He does in fact own every physical characteristic in this thing easily.That just gives me someone who has the highest stats that you can possibly have.To top that of i wouldnt even be able to debate with Carnage anymore since he is so far above the rules.I would have to use Spidey and Luke feats to back my claims and frankly thats just stupid sorry but im not voting here

Yeah, that's what I was thinking to...

Online