Toph vs Gaara

"I thought lightning used in jutsu wasn't as fast as natural lightning, which is why it was such a big deal that Sauke could control natural lightning during his fight with Itachi. Anyway, if it moves as fast this should put Toph and Gaara on par."

It does move the same speed as regular Lightning. Also this wouldn't make them on par Toph has shown nothing to put her on even Faster then the eye can see level yet. All her attacks are blatantly seen and have can countered by fodder fire benders.

"His inner shield (I don't know if this is the correct term, I mean the one grafted to his skin) was broken pretty easily by Lee. I don't see how it would protect Gaara if Toph bends inside his shield."

Because of one thing. How exactly is she supposed to get in between him and his shield. Lee was sound speed, a speed of which Toph hasn't shown yet. Also Lee has Super strength. Also throwing it at suck a close distance (the distance between his shield and him is a couple of inches) will not generate enough inertia to get through his armor (his armor survived hits from Hidden Lotus Lee)

"When did he crush them? Kimimaro didn't die of being crushed."

We'll he was about to but Kimimaro reinforced his bones. And said that if he hadn't reinforced them he would have been crushed

"You have to admit that those were pretty weak tiles. i mean seriously, wouldn't it cost a fortune to repare after every singe Chunin exam? Why couldn't they just do it outside?"

Actually they were pretty durable. It actually would be insignificant damage cost, seeing how Five different villages were involved.

"Lightning doesn't move faster than the eye can see. You just can't follow it's movements. You also can't follow the movements of many of Toph's earthbending."

Actually it does. Human eye loses it's target around the 525 mph mark, lightning moves at 224,000 mph. Of course their exceptions like if it's a plane in the sky you can see it cause it is much farther away. Also you can Many have done it. During her time as the blind bandit at the arena, standard foot soldier firebenders, sokka, Aang, Katara, The Dai Li. None of which move faster than the eye can pervieve nor the reaction time have Reacted to and seen her attacks

"Depends. Can she react at FTL speeds?"

Very

"This is completely true. It would be a huge problem for Toph if HE HAD EVEN ONE AIR ATTACK!! She is able to sense earth, metal and sand. She could see every single attack of his coming."

Checkmate. Gaara is a Wind release type and has used it before

It does move the same speed as regular Lightning.

I'm pretty sure you are wrong about natural lightning being at the same speed as chakra lightning. Black zetsu said that using natural lightning would put Kirin on a totally different level than anyone could do by using chakra lightning and that that is why it can't be evaded. (if you wouldn't mind, please copy the following link and paste it into your search bar. Then watch from 47:15 to 47:29

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2_uMozk9b0

sorry I could not show the video here directly).

Also in the next link from 0:43 to 0:51 Itachi was able to dodge chakra lightning, but not regular lightning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2_uMozk9b0

If chakra users are so fast, than why aren't they practically invincible in the shinobi world? Very few ninja are as fast as Itachi, yet even he was unable to dodge natural lightning. People much slower than Itachi block or dodge chakra lightning all the time.

Also this wouldn't make them on par Toph has shown nothing to put her on even Faster then the eye can see level yet. All her attacks are blatantly seen and have can countered by fodder fire benders.

You ignored all the evidence I gave and gave no evidence of your own to rebut it. :(

I'll put it here for you.

True, but from standing still he was able to jump in front of lightning. That means his reactions are lightning speed or greater. Yet Toph was able to take him by surprise.

You could argue that lightning bending doesn't go at the speed of actual lightning. However, Zuko was trying to redirect natural lightning like there was no difference and every other time we have seen a character bend lightning it has traveled faster than we can follow.

You could argue that because Azula was "off" that day (meaning she was slowly going insane) that her lightning speed wasn't on par with how it usually was. This would make sense, except for the fact that this is during Sozin's comet, when firebenders have the power they would get from a hundred suns. all of her other abilities were amplified, why wouldn't this be?

I'm going to steal the video from sightlessreality in order to show you instances where Toph bended faster than the eye can see or follow.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Ko7VusR04

Watch from 0:17 to 0:18, 0:23 to 0:24, 1:11 to 1:12, 3:02 to 3:03, 3:04 to 3:05, 3:16 to 3:17, 3:28 to 3:29, 3:47 to 3:48, 3:57 to 3:59, 4:06 to 4:07 (when she knocked Zuko away), 4:10 to 4:11, 4:15 to 4:16, 4:50 to 4:51 and 5:06 to 5:09 you can see times where she has bended faster than can be seen. You see a change, like a rock sticking out but you don't see its movement.

Also, when have they been countered by fodder firebenders? She was effortlessly able to take down three fire bender soldiers during Sozin's Comet, when they are a hundred times more powerful.

Actually it does. Human eye loses it's target around the 525 mph mark, lightning moves at 224,000 mph. Of course their exceptions like if it's a plane in the sky you can see it cause it is much farther away

I do apologize for my lack of understanding about the speed of lightning. Maybe it was just my imagination that I could see the movement between when it travels from the sky to the ground.

During her time as the blind bandit at the arena, standard foot soldier firebenders, sokka, Aang, Katara, The Dai Li. None of which move faster than the eye can pervieve nor the reaction time have Reacted to and seen her attacks

I don't remember standard foot soldiers doing it. Also, many of these times Toph wasn't going as fast as she could have. Katara and Aang have waterbending, which specializes in turning your opponents attack against them. Also, many times they have bended faster than can be seen or followed, just as Toph has.

Very

Last time I checked Batman was a normal human. Sounds like a plot hole to me.

Checkmate. Gaara is a Wind realise type and has used it before

He has used it before, but why would he use it now? His sand techniques are the most powerful ones he can use and as far as he knows Toph is using earth chakra which air style will have no advantage against.

Because of one thing. How exactly is she supposed to get in between him and his shield.

She can bend behind his outer shield to attack his inner shield. That is one of the major advantages she has in this fight. She can attack his inner and outer shield at the same time. Gaara isn't used to this, and as I said earlier, has difficulty adapting. His strategy is always to sit behind his shields, throw sand at people, try to crush people with sand and convert the minerals into more sand in order to do the same thing with it. When his strategy doesn't work (like when Lee was moving faster than his sand could keep up) he doesn't know what to do.

Lee was sound speed, a speed of which Toph hasn't shown yet.

Showed you examples of her bending faster than the eye can follow.

Also Lee has Super strength.

Toph can bend with enough force to launch herself and three people into an airship, crumble the terrain around her, hold up a giant castle library, crumble the side of an airship within a few seconds and explode a stadium (which is as much damage as Lee could do with the gates opened in his fight with Gaara).

Also throwing it at suck a close distance (the distance between his shield and him is a couple of inches) will not generate enough inertia to get through his armor (his armor survived hits from Hidden Lotus Lee)

She was able to knock Zuko away at that distance and she could launch herself and two other people into an airship with no space between them and the ground at all.

We'll he was about to but Kimimaro reinforced his bones. And said that if he hadn't reinforced them he would have been crushed

Toph is able to bend huge amounts of metal at once. If Gaara can't crush or even hurt one skeleton of reinforced steel, I don't see how he will crush or breach Toph's steel defenses.

Actually they were pretty durable.

I feel silly asking this, but what are the feats of the tiles? I thought they were broken in nearly every match.

It actually would be insignificant damage cost, seeing how Five different villages were involve

Yeah, but why waste the money when it could go into someone's pay check or medical bills or something.

How is this still being debated? Toph loses

Gaara.

Naruto characters (with the exception of Avatar state) just do things on a grander scale than Avatar characters.

And Gaara is a BAMF.

Jmarshmallow

Still Gaara

Still Gaara.

@dbvse7: @dondave: @jmarshmallow: @etheral_dreams:

Wow. We've been debating this for four pages, considering some of the smallest details, giving examples, evidence and using them to make actual points, but after hearing these incredible arguments . . .

Gaara.

Naruto characters (with the exception of Avatar state) just do things on a grander scale than Avatar characters.

And Gaara is a BAMF.

How is this still being debated? Toph loses

Still Gaara

Still Gaara

well, let me just say that you were able to surpass everything we just said in a few sentences, in some cases, two words. You must be lawyers or something. I don't see any other way that you could have such groundbreaking insight. Hearing you debate is like a good song or story. I am emersed inside of it, the way I think and what I believe forever changed. It is impossible to look at what you have written and not shed a tear for the beauty and harsh truth of it.

Side note

My sarcasm can go a little overboard

/thread

Jmarshmallow

@whoisme: Dude, you can't say that Toph attacks are Fast as lightning or near it because she tagged Zuko. Zuko during the time was not moving Faster than the eye can see and thus that feat of her tagging him is mute.

Ok if Superman and Hulk fought and Superman was moving human speed and Hulk hit him, it does not mean he can move FTL. It means that Superman was tagged because he wasn't moving his regular speed. Same with Toph, just because she tagged Zuko who was at the time not moving anywhere near the speed he shown during his fight with Azula. Also the lightning isn't as fast as lightning in the real world in Naruto or avatar. Katara during the fight was easily able to see the lightning coming towards her.

I'll explain faster than the eye human eye for you.

Toph cannot attack faster than the human eye can see why

1. being able to move faster than the eye can see. Means what? To able to move so fast I DIDN'T SEE THE MOVEMENT. So for example, in that Toph Fight Tribute thing I watched, not once did she attack faster than the human eye can perceive. Why? BECAUSE I SEEN THE WHOLE THING. If she moved or attacked faster than the human eye what would it look like. One instant you see her just standing there, then the next instant she is encased in rock. It would look like two pictures. It would look instantaneous. BUT IT DOESNT. You can CLEARLY see that she when she moves her feet to bend, you can CLEARLY see when the rock is coming out l, you can CLEARLY see the rock propelling to its target.

"Toph is able to bend huge amounts of metal at once. If Gaara can't crush or even hurt one skeleton of reinforced steel, I don't see how he will crush or breach Toph's steel defenses."

He does need to. He can encase her therefore winning via suffocation

Also the whole between his shields make no sense. She cannot create earth between his shields she has to throw the earth at him in hopes that it is fast enough for her to get to in between which it is not

And no the tiles were damaged only during the Gaara vs Lee fight.

Also once he sees that his sand doesn't work he will try to use wind. He would already figure out that it is not earth jutsu as their are no seals or incantaion that Toph uses

Also the Toph tagging Zuko doesn't prove jack diddly.

The guy was clearly standing there trying to help her. It wasn't even a combat feat. Also if it was faster than lightning how would I have seen it come out of the Earth

@jmarshmallow: That was in the desert. This is in Chicago

@whoisme: the sand tsunami wasn't in the desert (the one he used against Kimimaro

@whoisme: Didn't read it :P

Only 2 of those were in a desert.

@comicvinepoozer1:

Dude, you can't say that Toph attacks are Fast as lightning or near it because she tagged Zuko. Zuko during the time was not moving Faster than the eye can see and thus that feat of her tagging him is mute.

Zuko's feat was that he was able to see lightning, realize it was directed at Katara, decide to jump in the way and then jump in the way before the lightning reached him. However, he was not able to see, realize, decide or execute the motion when Toph knocked him back.

Also the lightning isn't as fast as lightning in the real world in Naruto or avatar. Katara during the fight was easily able to see the lightning coming towards her.

Than Katara can see lightning. We have seen lighting bending be so fast that we can't see it. Please go to the link below and watch from 4:11 to 4:12, 4:16 to 4:17, 7:33 to 7:35 and 10:33 to 10:34 in order to see examples of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb_hUN-Kprw

Ok if Superman and Hulk fought and Superman was moving human speed and Hulk hit him, it does not mean he can move FTL. It means that Superman was tagged because he wasn't moving his regular speed. Same with Toph, just because she tagged Zuko who was at the time not moving anywhere near the speed he shown during his fight with Azula.

This situation is different. Before he was knocked away by Toph, Zuko was standing still. Before he leaped in front of Azula's lightning, he was standing still. He was shown to be able to process information quickly enough and physically fast enough to avoid lightning when he was initially standing still, but not quick enough to avoid a blow from Toph when he was initially standing still.

I'll explain faster than the eye human eye for you

Cool.

1. being able to move faster than the eye can see. Means what? To able to move so fast I DIDN'T SEE THE MOVEMENT

I agree with this

So for example, in that Toph Fight Tribute thing I watched, not once did she attack faster than the human eye can perceive. Why? BECAUSE I SEEN THE WHOLE THING. If she moved or attacked faster than the human eye what would it look like. One instant you see her just standing there, then the next instant she is encased in rock. It would look like two pictures. It would look instantaneous. BUT IT DOESNT. You can CLEARLY see that she when she moves her feet to bend, you can CLEARLY see when the rock is coming out l, you can CLEARLY see the rock propelling to its target.

Really? Because I cannot follow the movement of the rock in those examples I pointed out. Perhaps you do see the different images and imagine that you see the movement in between, like I always do when I see lightning in real life. When Toph knocked away Ty Lee for example. First Ty Lee was there, then there was a stone pillar there. When she was blocking an avalanche, first there was not a sloping stone roof above Sokka, then there was.

Maybe your eyes are just better than mine (my eye sight is slightly below average).

Here's another thing. Sometimes, in action with extremely fast characters, they slow down the motions so that the audience can follow. Perhaps this is what they did with Toph's earthebending, if you can see the movement.

He does need to. He can encase her therefore winning via suffocation

Before I even argue about anything, let me say one thing. Suffocation? You do realize this is in character, right? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he'll try to stop the little blind girl trying to beat him up, but suffocation? You think he would kill her? I know he has issues, and he has killed many of his opponents, but you think he would try to kill a twelve year old blind girl who isn't even trying to kill him?

Also, she can create steel walls around herself.

Also, she has created a miniature model of Ba Sing Sai with a small (though much larger than her) amount of sand. As I have said, Gaara has never shown this amount of fine control over his sand, so I don't see why Toph couldn't just turn any sand he tried to touch her with to stone.

Also the whole between his shields make no sense. She cannot create earth between his shields she has to throw the earth at him in hopes that it is fast enough for her to get to in between which it is not

No. She doesn't need to lift it up and throw it at him (though that is an option). She has bended stone extremely far away from her, so she could create a pillar or something behind his shield to ram into him.

Also the Toph tagging Zuko doesn't prove jack diddly.

The guy was clearly standing there trying to help her. It wasn't even a combat feat.

Tell me, if you were trying to help someone and they threw a punch at you, you would dodge it if you could, wouldn't you? Do you think Zuko would take a blow he didn't have to take if it had no purpose other than to get him away? No, he wouldn't.

Also if it was faster than lightning how would I have seen it come out of the Earth

Either you only imagined seeing the motion (like I do with lightning) or you have sight that surpasses a normal human or they occasionally slow down the action so people can see it.

Side note

After debating with you I really want to see this fight. Can someone contact Deathbattle?

@comicvinepoozer1: the sand tsunami wasn't in the desert (the one he used against Kimimaro

Oops. Anyway, it wasn't that big (in the panel it was really close up), it was slow, it would be more difficult and slower for Gaara to make sand out of concrete (especially when Toph makes the concrete fight against him) and . . . you were probably just notifying me of my mistake and I am reading too much into it.

Still gaara.

Gaara takes her eyebrows.

@parryboy: lol. And then he has to fight Lee again to decide who has the better eye brows

@whoisme: You do know that the lightning they bend isn't real right? It's a trope they use multiple times in Comics and in shows. Unless it's confirmed of being natural lightning then it's fake. Heck people in Avatar can barely dodge Arrows let alone bullets.

@justsomerandomkid:

You do know that the lightning they bend isn't real right?

Yeah, I know it's not real. It is a drawing of lightning, they wouldn't be able to use real lightning on my screen (in all seriousness, are you talking about Naruto or avatar right now?)

It's a trope they use multiple times in Comics and in shows.

Since you said comics I'm thinking you mean Avatar, but you could be classifying manga as comics, so I don't know.

Unless it's confirmed of being natural lightning then it's fake

No one ever said that the lightning was in anyway fake. It can cause explosions, electrocute people, etc. The debate was over if it was as fast as natural lightning.

Heck people in Avatar can barely dodge Arrows let alone bullets.

(cough, cough, evidence?, cough, cough).

Bullets exist in neither avatar nor Naruto, so i don't see what that has to do with anything. Anyways, have you seen what arrows can do in Avatar? Three arrows were enough to shatter a large ice shield and one could shatter a small rock into dust. The arrows can also be pretty hard to follow at times.

@whoisme: I was talking about Avatar, but Naruto has used real natural lightning as well (Sasuke's Karin or Senjutsu lightning for example). Anytime I say fake lightning I'm talking about its speed I have no doubt in my mind it would stop a humans heart if you're hit by it. Aang (who i can see is just about the fastest and most agile in Avatar) was barely dodging arrows. Also the only reason I mentioned bullets is because of them being the speed of the sound.

@whoisme: nah death battle aren't exactly experts on Manga and anime like Naruto or Avatar. They will end up just messing up the fight like they did Goku vs Superman.

I was talking about Avatar, but Naruto has used real natural lightning as well (Sasuke's Karin or Senjutsu lightning for example)

Now I'm confused, because at first you said that the lightning they bend isn't real, now you say that Naruto has used real lightning as well.

Yes, they have used natural lightning in Naruto. I was saying that chakra lightning is slower than natural.

Anytime I say fake lightning I'm talking about its speed I have no doubt in my mind it would stop a humans heart if you're hit by it

I understand now

Aang (who i can see is just about the fastest and most agile in Avatar) was barely dodging arrows.

Yeah, those bowmen were legendary and were said to be able to pin a fly with an arrow from a great distance without killing it. They were also able to fire arrows with the force to break an ice shield with only three shots and fire arrows so fast that I could not follow them. They also had enough precision to pin Aang by piercing only his clothes and knocking out Zuko with an arrow from a long distance. In another case an arrow was able to shatter a small rock into dust at high speeds.

Also the only reason I mentioned bullets is because of them being the speed of the sound.

I would rather have a stupid ordinary gun man than one of these f****** on my a**.

@whoisme: I think that her attacks are faster than normal humans can react too not see. You do see the earth come out, but not many avatar characters can react to her speed and skill with earth. Also the whole Get between his Shield thing can be debunked by one thing. His sand protects him no matter where it is trying to hurt him. So if she were able to get past the initial shield, another would come and protect him near instantaneously.

Oh yea and about the whole Zuko/lightning thing, in all honesty that can be regarded as PIS. Why? Consistency. The guy has been tagged by those with normal levels of speed and has never shown to be able to move lightning speed.

The whole series > one instance

It's like(gulp) Spider-Man vs fire lord. The whole Zuko reacting to lightning thing was just a plot device to be able to get a fight in for Katara before the series ended (she was the secondary protagonist

lol this was fun.

I kind of agree with this, Toph would win. Gaara is not a smart fighter at all, he just uses his sand to overpower his enemy. Toph is smarter and has the ability to bend both earth and sand... and metals, she can bend the earth so fast that she could defend from any sand based attack Gaara could ever do, simply by going underground... in this fight she would quickly understand how his shield works and then turn it against him to win, or just made all his sand into rock and leave him powerless.

@whoisme: Didn't mean to put in as well. My mistake.

Oh yea and about the whole Zuko/lightning thing, in all honesty that can be regarded as PIS. Why? Consistency. The guy has been tagged by those with normal levels of speed and has never shown to be able to move lightning speed.

I must agree with this

It's like(gulp) Spider-Man vs fire lord. The whole Zuko reacting to lightning thing was just a plot device to be able to get a fight in for Katara before the series ended (she was the secondary protagonist

And this.

I think that her attacks are faster than normal humans can react too not see. You do see the earth come out, but not many avatar characters can react to her speed and skill with earth.

Are you sure you could see all the attacks? You're starting to make me worried that I'm going blind. If you wouldn't mind watching the video again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Ko7VusR04

At 0:17 to 0:18 I see Toph on a rock, launching the rock into the air. Then I the rock is in the air and it is being hit by arrows. I do not see it move into the air.

0:23 to 0:24, I see Toph turn her feet or something and then there is a sloping stone roof over Sokka and there are rocks crashing into it. I didn't see the sloping roof come out.

1:11 to 1:12, I see Ty Lee and Sokka staring at each other, then there is a column of stone where Ty Lee was and she is thrown across the room.

3:02 to 3:03, I see two flying stone gloves and then they are dust. I didn't see them explode.

3:04 to 3:05, I sort of see the motion, but not well. Two Dai Lee agents are standing there, then there is a flicker and two stone columns are in their places.

3:28 to 3:29. This one is kind of a cheat, because there are bushes in the way, but Toph taps a foot and this bristling little creature comes flying into her hand from a large distance away. This is impressive for a number of reasons. It shows how much space she is aware of with her earth bending sense and how coordinated she is with her earth bending, as she knew the exact amount of force and direction to earth bend the creature directly into her hand.

3:47 to 3:48, there are two stone colums coming at Toph, then there is two stone walls protecting her. I thought I saw a flicker, but it could have been my imagination.

3:57 to 3:59, I see Toph kick the stone from the ground, but I can't see it between the points where she punched it and it pinned Azula's arm.

4:06 to 4:07, I see the stone pillar getting closer for a fraction of a second, then Zuko is flying and the pillar is where he was.

4:10 to 4:11, Toph pumps her arms or something, and a model of Ba Sing Sai is made out of sand. I do not see it being made and don't think I could, as the cloud of dust only covered it for a second.

4:15 to 4:16, I sort of see a flicker as the earth man comes out of the sand.

4:50 to 4:51, I see them running and then the ground underneath them is exploding into dust up to their waist. I don't see it come up to their waist.

5:06 to 5:09, I never see the columns come up. He is knocked by one, then there is another one to knock him.

Also the whole Get between his Shield thing can be debunked by one thing. His sand protects him no matter where it is trying to hurt him. So if she were able to get past the initial shield, another would come and protect him near instantaneously.

Even if this is true, it still gives Toph an advantage. She can make an attack come from anywhere there is earth, from any direction, with the smallest motions. She could be making a pillar shoot out inside of his shield with a tap of her foot, throw a rock outside of his shield with one hand and explode the earth underneath him with another tap of her foot. Even if Gaara's sand is faster, I doubt it could keep up. Also, Toph could gather all of his sand in one place by attacking one area heavily and then attacking the place that there is no sand.

lol 4 pages

people are so funny

they just have to look at gaaras pre-ship feats and they would know that he slaughterstomp@nyas ^^

@ratava: Don't underestimate how people like to overrate Avatar.

yeah i really dont get it

the naruto casual "running from tree to tree" is more impressive than any speed feat from Avatar ^^

Yeah, I've seen and honestly I don't even care anymore...

yeah ill just leave this

@ratava: LMAO

@nyas said:

@ratava: LMAO

LOL my gf is a gymnastic freak and she showed me that vid and what happend? earworm!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and everybody is posting nonsense on this topic so i just went with the flow xD

Oh I get it lol

I dunno why someone like me watched the whole thing, I suspect black magic.

@annoyedimmortalspirit: your argument is bafflingly wrong. It has already been established and agreed on that she cannot control the sand that his mother spriit has been forged in. She cannot turn all his sand into stone. She has shown sand-stone transformation once. In the desert and that was just below her feet. Now you expect me to believe she can turn all his sand to stone? Also he is not defenseless, just saying that is pure nonsense. He is a ninja with enough agility to jump tree to tree easily while holding a conversation, use of the body flicker technique and an a arsenal of ninja equipment. If you don't have anything valid about the debate to say, good day to you sir/miss

Avatar is on that DBZ overrating sh*t

@whoisme: I admit those are faster than the human eye can see for the most part.

But their not Ameterasu fast which he has blocked easily during his fight with sasuke. Not only that but then you have sand armor that of which have survived far more than she can give out.

I wouldn't say anywhere their is earth. Only earth that is connected to her. Due to Gaara flying she cannot manipulate his sand.

She hasn't shown the ability to get past his shields. His shields during part 2 are fast enough that he could block an Ameterasu. Durable enough to stop explosions. So after this I will give out the advantages of each character

Speed -Gaara. Toph earth bending is fast but not Amaterasu fast. Also you have to bring in the fact of movement. The disadvantage Toph has here is movement. Unlike Gaara who has the ability to control his sand mentally, Toph must use martial arts type movements to do earth bending. Why is this a disadvantage? Her ability to multitask compared to Gaara is vastly inferior. Gaara can attack defend and create sand simultaneously, while Toph has to do those individually.

2. Versatility- Toph. While Gaara can control Sand and has Wind release, Toph has earth, sand (though not nearly on the level of Gaara, she hasn't shown the ability to use sand offensively efficiently), and metal( which is a huge advantage

Defense- Gaara. While yes I believe that this category is of course a landslide, it should be addressed as this a debate. Why is it a landslide?

A. He has technically two people guarding him. Him and his mother. This means that he can defend for himself and have his mother defend him

B. the speed of his sand. He has the speed to block near instant Amaterasu and speed of sound attacks easily which Toph hasn't shown (faster than the eye can see at most)

3. Attack power-Tie. Toph has shown huge destructive capabilities but not on par with Gaara. Why a Tie then? She can turn a small portion of his sand (hasn't shown enough to turn a large portion) of his sand tsunami to stone thus she can guard her self from his big attacks.

My diagnosis? Gaara 6-7/10. Why? Her defense is lacking, a metal armor is not enough to stop his sand attacks and if she uses to much metal or earth armor (such as an armor ball) it will obscure her hearing which is the only way she is able to react to Gaara. Not only that he has much more stamina, and that makes it even worse when you have someone that must use physical movements to use geokinesis

Toph wouldn't even be able to get pass his sand armor lol

Seriously... toph is awesome but the toph wanking is getting ridiculous.

@comicvinepoozer1:

I admit those are faster than the human eye can see for the most part.

Good, I'm not going crazy. At least not yet. There's still time.

I wouldn't say anywhere their is earth. Only earth that is connected to her.

For the most part this is true. However, we often see her lift a stone into the air and still be able to bend it, so I think it's fair to say that she is only limited to that to an extent.

Due to Gaara flying she cannot manipulate his sand

True, unless her tries to attack her with it. Since she is better at manipulating small amounts of sand, she could turn it to stone or redirect it. However, Toph would have to bend faster than Gaara's sand can attack her.

She hasn't shown the ability to get past his shields. His shields during part 2 are fast enough that he could block an Ameterasu

Please watch this video from 0:21 to 0:25. I believe this is the feat you are talking about

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxCHSWFxXUo

Here, the ameratsu is growing larger but staying in place. Since it is not moving, I don't think this is much of a speed feat (unless this is not the feat you are talking about).

Durable enough to stop explosions

Yeah, but that was when he was in the desert, with all the sand his heart could desire. I feel like this could be used as a speed feat, except the bomb wasn't moving that fast and Deidora wanted to capture Gaara, not destroy the sand village.

So after this I will give out the advantages of each character

Cool

Speed -Gaara.

I agree. Gaara's sand is faster than Toph's bending

The disadvantage Toph has here is movement. Unlike Gaara who has the ability to control his sand mentally, Toph must use martial arts type movements to do earth bending. Why is this a disadvantage? Her ability to multitask compared to Gaara is vastly inferior. Gaara can attack defend and create sand simultaneously, while Toph has to do those individually.

Gaara can do all that at the same time, but Toph's movements are used to greater effect. Every move leads into another, like when she creates an earth shield to block, then throws it at her opponent. Gaara on the other hand, guards, attacks, guards, attacks, the most his techniques ever lead to is sand burial

2. Versatility- Toph. While Gaara can control Sand and has Wind release, Toph has earth, sand (though not nearly on the level of Gaara, she hasn't shown the ability to use sand offensively efficiently), and metal( which is a huge advantage

agreed

A. He has technically two people guarding him. Him and his mother. This means that he can defend for himself and have his mother defend him

I might just not be remembering right, but I don't think it was ever shown that the sand had his mother's mind, just her spirit. That is why Gaara couldn't kill himself with the sand. But we've never seen the mother make strategies or attack independently from Gaara.

B. the speed of his sand. He has the speed to block near instant Amaterasu and speed of sound attacks easily which Toph hasn't shown (faster than the eye can see at most)

Yes, but Toph can deliver many attacks with many small motions and all her attacks either open up weak spots or lead into another move.

3. Attack power-Tie. Toph has shown huge destructive capabilities but not on par with Gaara. Why a Tie then? She can turn a small portion of his sand (hasn't shown enough to turn a large portion) of his sand tsunami to stone thus she can guard her self from his big attacks.

True

Her defense is lacking, a metal armor is not enough to stop his sand attacks and if she uses to much metal or earth armor (such as an armor ball) it will obscure her hearing which is the only way she is able to react to Gaara

It will stop his sand, if just for a little while. She can throw up steel walls much faster than he could tear them down.

Not only that he has much more stamina, and that makes it even worse when you have someone that must use physical movements to use geokinesis

When have you ever seen Toph get tired? When have you ever seen Gaara get tired? I can't remember a single time for either of them. Since their stamina is unknowable, it should not be a factor in this fight.

My diagnosis? Gaara 6-7/10

This is fair. I would say Toph 5.5 out of 4.5. The longer she holds out, the more she learns about his abilities and the better she is able to counter and take advantage of them. I do believe that Toph has the tools to defend against his sand (it helps that he probably wouldn't take the blind little girl that seriously for a while). However, Gaara might make some comment about Toph just being a blind little girl, in which case Toph would do something seriously dangerous and impressive to prove him wrong, which would make Gaara go all out at the beginning of the fight.

@whoisme: well after debating with you I'll give it about the same. Gaara 5/10 Toph 5/10

But the stamina thing, he has immense stamina due to being a ex-Jinchuriki. Although he lost his tailed beast he has kept all his abilities (even increased a little) so I believe his stamina should be alright

Unless it's morals off Gaara in that case, he stomps

it has never been established that she can't, she's an earth bender and can bend every earth related material, including sand... unless you are saying that Gaara's sand is not made of regular earth, but just of chakra... if not she can bend it and turn it into rock because that's what she can do to sand.

i never said he is defenseless, i said she can use his own defenses against him, by bending his own sand shield or inside of it.

Gaara's agility is also nothing special, he never dodge anything during fights and he just stand there letting his sand block the attacks... so he never displayed an impressive agility feat and he's not better than Toph or other benders for what i've seen.

The same for his ninja equipment... i don't think i ever saw him using it, and even if he did at some point, they never actually helped him to win a battle until now, showing that his ability with them is quite poor.

@annoyedimmortalspirit: yes you did, you said she can turn all his sand into stone leaving him defenseless. She has NEVER shown the ability to turn a large body of Sand into stone. What's to stop Gaara from turning it right back. Also how can she sense his sand oh he is flying

Also yes he has casually jumped from tree to tree EASILY while holding conversations. That's agility plus one.

Your arguement makes no sense anyway, additional artillery in a battle is a big help.

She CANNOT control his sand. Not only has it been stated that no one can control his sand but HIM, he has also fought opponents with the same ability as him and didn't have his sand took control of ONCE.

You say she cannot but they'r from two different verses that control there elements vie different methods. So at most it's only speculation that she can't control it.

Either way I'm raising my white flag.

@sightlessreality: Alright

@sightlessreality: its constantly under his control with chakra.

Anyway toph loses badly.

@nerdchore: That still doesn't mean jack between universe imo and is still just speculation. And why did you quote me when I already raised the right flag?