Tim may be better skilled (he's improved since Jason bested him in Teen Titans...and Tim did beat him in Robin) but all-around, Jason is a shade lower than Dick Grayson. He also isn't afraid to fight dirty.
Jason but if Tim knows he's coming, Drake's got it as he's like Bruce-level smart.
Jason Todd wins. He's more ruthless and one of the best tacticians in DC. If it wasn't for his arrogance and pride he would have been the next Batman. Even Bruce said Jason was the most gifted kid he'd ever seen.
Jason is often really underrated. In Under the Red Hood, he fairly easily managed to avoid and escape from Batman and Nightwing, who are both two of the best acrobats not to mention Jason's Batman level training. Jason stomps. Hard.
" Jason Todd wins. He's more ruthless and one of the best tacticians in DC. If it wasn't for his arrogance and pride he would have been the next Batman. Even Bruce said Jason was the most gifted kid he'd ever seen. "
Best tacticains in DC?????heh somewhere out there Lex,Slade and Darkseid are crying.Jason would never had become Batman dude. Bruce had yet to meet Tim and Damian when he complimented Todd like that(not even sure he did) must have been angry at Dick as well,cause all 3 of them showed special abilitiy even before their Robin careers what did Jason have before becoming Robin?Oh and i do recall Bruce saying that bringing Jason in to this was a mistake cause he was'nt as good as Dick. That scan means nothing,there's one where Tim Kicks him as well. But Todd wins.
" Jason Todd wins. He's more ruthless and one of the best tacticians in DC. If it wasn't for his arrogance and pride he would have been the next Batman. Even Bruce said Jason was the most gifted kid he'd ever seen. "
Best tacticains in DC?????heh somewhere out there Lex,Slade and Darkseid are crying.Jason would never had become Batman dude. Bruce had yet to meet Tim and Damian when he complimented Todd like that(not even sure he did) must have been angry at Dick as well,cause all 3 of them showed special abilitiy even before their Robin careers what did Jason have before becoming Robin?Oh and i do recall Bruce saying that bringing Jason in to this was a mistake cause he was'nt as good as Dick.That scan means nothing,there's one where Tim Kicks him as well.But Todd wins. "
Jason acts solely on revenge and vengeance, you are talking about Luthor who is brilliant and has a urge to attain power, and Darkseid who is a god and powerful character. I said one of the best tacticians because he is. If he removed emotion from the equation then he'd be a beast. Or woulda been. But the Grayson>Todd>Drake>Wayne (Obviously Damien) still stands to reason.
" Jason Todd wins. He's more ruthless and one of the best tacticians in DC. If it wasn't for his arrogance and pride he would have been the next Batman. Even Bruce said Jason was the most gifted kid he'd ever seen. "
Pretty sure Bruce later said Dick and Tim had gifts but Jason didn't, he had only rage. Either way Jason wins.
" Jason Todd wins. He's more ruthless and one of the best tacticians in DC. If it wasn't for his arrogance and pride he would have been the next Batman. Even Bruce said Jason was the most gifted kid he'd ever seen. "
Best tacticains in DC?????heh somewhere out there Lex,Slade and Darkseid are crying.Jason would never had become Batman dude. Bruce had yet to meet Tim and Damian when he complimented Todd like that(not even sure he did) must have been angry at Dick as well,cause all 3 of them showed special abilitiy even before their Robin careers what did Jason have before becoming Robin?Oh and i do recall Bruce saying that bringing Jason in to this was a mistake cause he was'nt as good as Dick.That scan means nothing,there's one where Tim Kicks him as well.But Todd wins. "
Jason acts solely on revenge and vengeance, you are talking about Luthor who is brilliant and has a urge to attain power, and Darkseid who is a god and powerful character. I said one of the best tacticians because he is. If he removed emotion from the equation then he'd be a beast. Or woulda been. But the Grayson>Todd>Drake>Wayne (Obviously Damien) still stands to reason. "
No he is'nt,he's a good tactician no doubt but one of the best?seriously.Why should we remove emotion?it's a part of the character infact it's a defining part of the character.By that logic why not remove arrogance from Darkseid,Doom and Lex?or morals from the likes of Deathstroke,Bane and Ra's al Ghul?
" Jason Todd wins. He's more ruthless and one of the best tacticians in DC. If it wasn't for his arrogance and pride he would have been the next Batman. Even Bruce said Jason was the most gifted kid he'd ever seen.
"
Tim Drake wins. He's far smarter and has trained far harder than Jason ever did. Jason will never be Batman because Jason is insane and also because Nightwing is better than Jason at everything. Jason's arrogance and pride are weaknesses that Tim does not have. Jason was purposely written as a lousy character and you have bad taste for liking him.
" Jason Todd wins. He's more ruthless and one of the best tacticians in DC. If it wasn't for his arrogance and pride he would have been the next Batman. Even Bruce said Jason was the most gifted kid he'd ever seen. "
" Jason Todd wins. He's more ruthless and one of the best tacticians in DC. If it wasn't for his arrogance and pride he would have been the next Batman. Even Bruce said Jason was the most gifted kid he'd ever seen.
"
Tim Drake wins.
He's far smarter and has trained far harder than Jason ever did. Jason will never be Batman because Jason is a lousy character and he's too insane. He was purposely written as a lousy character and you have bad taste for liking him.
@Zoom: I never said I liked him I just said he's better than Tim. I agree with most of the things you say on threads but since you're mocking on my tastes then give it a go. My Five Favs are 1) Doctor Doom, 2) Iron man, 3) Flash (Wally), 4) Zoom (Hunter), and 5) Parallax (Hal not the emo entity crap)... Only part of Jason I liked was the "Red Hood" movie. If thats bad taste then I'm guilty kid.
What about Jason stomping Tim in Teen Titans 29, and in Battle for the Cowl?.....
"
WIS.
Tim's feats are far better and even Spoiler had more intense training as Robin than Jason did.
"
These were my opinions previously as well......
But Jason has been retconned to have been training since not very long after his death and ressurection by the LoA, and several of Bruce's former masters, along with some new people, to account for his sudden MA prowess, and tactical ability.....
What about Jason stomping Tim in Teen Titans 29, and in Battle for the Cowl?.....
"
WIS.
Tim's feats are far better and even Spoiler had more intense training as Robin than Jason did.
"
What about in Red Hood: The Lost Days. When he's fightining members of the League of Assasins while brain dead or when he beat Tim in battle for the cowl? But I do remember that he had some amount of prep in that issue and beat him because he's willing to go farther. And has he improved since becoming Red Hood?
I wouldn't call the Battle for the Cowl fight a stomp. Jason won, but Tim didn't get wrecked, either, at least not until Jason really used the terrain in his favour, which was his home turf.
What about Jason stomping Tim in Teen Titans 29, and in Battle for the Cowl?.....
"
WIS.
Tim's feats are far better and even Spoiler had more intense training as Robin than Jason did.
"
What about in Red Hood: The Lost Days. When he's fightining members of the League of Assasins while brain dead or when he beat Tim in battle for the cowl? But I do remember that he had some amount of prep in that issue and beat him because he's willing to go farther. And has he improved since becoming Red Hood? "
The only "prep" in BFTC was a bomb Tim accidentally set off, which didn't seem to have much of an affect on Tim, along with (if you can call it this) home field advantage of fighting in his own cave...
Tim even hit Jason with a crowbar in that fight, and Jason still nearly killed Tim.........
In Teen Titans there was no home field advnatage and Tim still fought dirty (threw sand in Jason's eyes) and Jason still beat him (then complimented Tim's skills, and ripped the R off of Tim's chest)......
In earlier times I was upset that Jason somehow had gotten so good and was able to beat Tim (but this was later explained in his mini series supposedly)...
Jason even has a few good showings against Nightwing which are PIS/WIS as well......
But comics in general portray Jason as > to Tim.......
" What about in Red Hood: The Lost Days. When he's fightining members of the League of Assasins while brain dead or when he beat Tim in battle for the cowl? But I do remember that he had some amount of prep in that issue and beat him because he's willing to go farther. And has he improved since becoming Red Hood? "
The only "prep" in BFTC was a bomb Tim accidentally set off, which didn't seem to have much of an affect on Tim, along with (if you can call it this) home field advantage of fighting in his own cave...
Yeah, that and he knew that Tim would follow him there.
Tim even hit Jason with a crowbar in that fight, and Jason still nearly killed Tim.........
That's because he was willing to go far enough to stab him through the chest, Tim nearly died and the only thing that saved him was the suit.
In Teen Titans there was no home field advnatage and Tim still fought dirty (threw sand in Jason's eyes) and Jason still beat him (then complimented Tim's skills, and ripped the R off of Tim's chest)......
You have it mixed up, that was Jason that threw dirt in Tim's eyes. Tim was pretty clean in that fight.
In earlier times I was upset that Jason somehow had gotten so good and was able to beat Tim (but this was later explained in his mini series supposedly)...
Me too, but now I don't really care.
But comics in general portray Jason as > to Tim.......
" What about in Red Hood: The Lost Days. When he's fightining members of the League of Assasins while brain dead or when he beat Tim in battle for the cowl? But I do remember that he had some amount of prep in that issue and beat him because he's willing to go farther. And has he improved since becoming Red Hood? "
The only "prep" in BFTC was a bomb Tim accidentally set off, which didn't seem to have much of an affect on Tim, along with (if you can call it this) home field advantage of fighting in his own cave...
Yeah, that and he knew that Tim would follow him there.
Tim even hit Jason with a crowbar in that fight, and Jason still nearly killed Tim.........
That's because he was willing to go far enough to stab him through the chest, Tim nearly died and the only thing that saved him was the suit.
In Teen Titans there was no home field advnatage and Tim still fought dirty (threw sand in Jason's eyes) and Jason still beat him (then complimented Tim's skills, and ripped the R off of Tim's chest)......
You have it mixed up, that was Jason that threw dirt in Tim's eyes. Tim was pretty clean in that fight.
In earlier times I was upset that Jason somehow had gotten so good and was able to beat Tim (but this was later explained in his mini series supposedly)...
Me too, but now I don't really care.
But comics in general portray Jason as > to Tim.......
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