#1 Edited by Raw_Material (3230 posts) - - Show Bio
#2 Edited by Raw_Material (3230 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave You could go first and start off with the preliminary post if you want.

#3 Posted by dondave (37612 posts) - - Show Bio

@reefermadness:

Wolverine vs Deathstroke

Although Deathstroke in the New 52 is stronger than Wolverine and has the Nth Metal Armour, he is still vulnerable to sharp objects as seen when his son threw his knife at him multiple times. This will help Wolverine in this battle as Adamantium is one of the strongest metals on Earth and would be able to go through his armour. Even if Slade can land damage on Wolverine his healing factor would allow him last longer than Deathstroke could as Deathstroke's healing factor is not as good his.

Martian Manhunter vs Hercules

Martian Manhunter has an advantage over Hercules in that he has superior speed, telepathy, intangibility, invisibility, atomic vision and one of the best healing factors in comics. Martian Manhunter can bend the light around to him to go invisible and can turn intangible so as to avoid any of Hercules attacks and phase his hand inside Hercules brain or chest depending on what he wants to take.

Silver Surfer vs Ghost Rider

Silver Surfer can BFR Ghost Rider by creating a Black Hole and telepaorting him into it, effectively ending their battle.

Batman vs Ozymandias

Batman simply outclasses Ozymandias. He has better on panel feats of skill and and has had more training than Ozy. Coupled with gadgets such as his Cyro-Pellets, Smoke Pellets and Sonic Grenades Batman has what it takes to put Ozymandias down.

Vulcan vs Aquaman

Vulcan can control all forms of energy; this means that he also has the ability to shut down the the electrical current in peoples brains. This makes them immobile and easy pickings for Vulcan. He can then use his energy in to crush Aquaman's windpipe

World War Hulk vs Maestro

Maestro was stronger than the regular Hulk, however, World War Hulk in stronger than the incarnation that fought Maestro. World War Hulk coupled with his increased strength and durability also has battle experienced from his time on Sakaar. WWH is strong enough that after a long battle he would emerge the winner.

Loki vs Gorilla Grodd

Loki should win this pretty easily. Loki is faster and actually has some combat skill. Loki was able to beat up Eric Masterson Thor and can rip apart steel doors.

He has better durability He was able to punch from Thor that would have shattered a small mountain and has taken hit's from from Strombreaker by Eric Masterson Thor and doesn't even react to punches from Spider-Man.

While in the astral plane where his power was reduced Loki was able to crack Sorcerer Supreme Strange's shields and one-shotted a group of X-men that included Colossus with a multi-directional blast from his finger

Loki, therefore most likely could destroy Gorilla Grodd with a single blast

#4 Edited by Raw_Material (3230 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Although, he is vulnerable to sharp objects (as for Wolverine as well), he does possess great amount of durability, having survived multiple explosions at ground zero and withstand falling from heights that would kill any normal being. He also has amazing regenerative healing factors, as he was not only able to merely defeated his son but regenerate quite quickly from the slashes as well. IIRC Deathstroke caught one of the knives and threw it back at him with accuracy, then went bloodlusted and killed the people that hired his son to assassinate him. He has been severely punctured from a sword before, regenerated almost instantly. IIRC one of the times he was stabbed by Tomo while fighting off 10,000 of his ninjas, regenerated then jumped out of a building with him and evidently killing Tomo, with GR walking away with hardly a scratch from the impact. Here's the scans of him doing so:

Here's a panel showing his superhuman durability, surviving an explosion at ground zero:

He is able to regenerate from injuries quite fast, as well as keeping his focus on the objective and planning his attacks at the same time. He is always steps ahead of his opponents being a super soldier like himself and has won against all odds before.

Here's a scan explaining his regenerative healing factors:

However, if Wolverine does get close enough to puncture through Deathstroke, Slade Wilson's known to be very, very agile and a great strategical tactician being always five or more steps ahead with plans of action. Here are some of the things he would be able to do to Wolverine if he is able to actually get in close range of Deathstroke and throw a blow at him:

And if Wolverine ever tries to do his leaping thrust into the air to try and get an easier kill from above, well, Deathstroke has some tricks up his sleeves for this kind of striking:

If Wolverine comes close enough, Deathstroke could be able to rip off his admantium bone claws and remove his main choice of weaponry permanently (displays great agility and speed throughout the whole fight):

Deathstroke vs Legacy:

Deathstroke vs Warhawk and Hawkman:

Deathstroke has also been able to take on immortals. Those that are much superior than Wolverine in brute strength and regenerative healing factors using tactical strategies, thinking, etc

Also want to talk more about what he's capable of with the amount of prep time, as well as his speed and agility compared to Wolverine's; but I'll get more into that with the next post.

As for Martian Manhunter, I was thinking more Ghost Rider to be a great challenge for him, especially due to MM's vulnerable to fire. Ghost Rider could create "hellfire" from within his body and make any type of construct he could think of, defensive and offensive attacks (almost like a power ring). GR's also been known to create huge hellfire explosions and merely defeated the Hulk in World War Hulk story arc as well as other continuities between the two characters. He'll be able to not only take on Martian but Hulk as well (with the help of Hercules and Grodd [my telepathic user] that is).

Here's Ghost Rider taking the Savage Hulk down twice in continuity:

He also could generate fire through his motorcycle and project them in every directional attack that are extremely powerful. If his bike doesn't close the distance between these two, then with his chain, he will be able get a ahold of MM in a band of fire. GR's chain is able to grow in length, cut through practically anything, transform into different types of weapons, and is pretty much unbreakable. His chain could maneuver/handle objects weighing over 200+ tons and have been depicted of holding Venom and Lucifer in the bind:

Ghost Rider vs Venom

Ghost Rider vs Lucifer, who's considered one of the strongest amongst demonic gods:

Speaking of strength, he's able to also lift up to immense amount of weight up to 100 tons, knowing that his chain is capable of doing so as well, here's a scan exemplifying his brute strength:

He could also stare through MM's eyes, and make him feel every single drop of pain, physically and emotionally which he also is known to have a weakness for (when Black Adam did the same thing that GR did, telepathically in WW3). This will also be very effective on Silver Surfer and Batman as well, most likely driving both of them insane to the point of suicide. He has used his penance stare on powerhouses such as Venom and Doctor Strange. Here's example of what Ghost Rider is capable of while looking through the eyes of his victims ( I'll post up valid scans later, jus thought it would be entertaining throwing up a video instead on here instead, lol :P)

Talking BFR, Ghost Rider is also known to travel through interdimensional realms and could send some of the opposing challengers a trip to another world, taking them out of the battle indefinitely. Grodd is also known to reach the Speed Force and have used his telepathic powers to capture the Flash (who's mind thinks way faster than any TP user could capture).

The others I haven't mentioned will be apart of my Prep Time post as this one's getting to clustered ATM. And the others in comparison to strength and their other superhuman abilities.

#5 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

I might have to vote against you @reefermadness for using footage from the horrible Nicolas Cage Ghost Rider movie. :)

#6 Edited by Raw_Material (3230 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill said:

I might have to vote against you @reefermadness for using footage from the horrible Nicolas Cage Ghost Rider movie. :)

Lol, how cruel!

:P

btw, I love Nicholas Cage's acting..one of my favorites :D

#7 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

Cage is fine in some movies but he is not capable of pulling off a superhero.

#8 Posted by Raw_Material (3230 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: And I think the Darwin and Aquaman match-up is a CIS, as Darwin is unable to withstand the punishment of Aquaman and will not be able to put any damage onto him because of Aquaman's tough skin durability feats. However, I believe Aquaman might take this in water due to the fact that it is BFR and Darwin is capable of breathing underwater due to his main ability of self-sustenance. Doing so, Aquaman will put more of a beating on Darwin underwater where AQ's most powerful and agile at. By the time, Aquaman uses his brute strength Darwin's body will be teleported away from the fight, like what happened when he merely died from the Hulk. Scans will be posted later if necessary.

And btw, I was thinking more of a Hercules vs Loki fight..and this might even be a CIS as Loki is unable to harm any human race due to his power limitations casted by Odin. In this case, Aquaman (being half human as well) could also take on Loki after having finished off Darwin. Being of another world, Loki has a very poor understanding of the human nature, thus having him severely underestimate his mortal opponents, resulting to his defeat. Although, Loki still might be able to use his superhuman abilities other than his mystical powers on human races. I am not fully sure, but if I find a scan that's relevant enough, I'll post it up.

Maestro is clearly much of a superior as WWH and from the constant exposure of radiation makes him to be considered Hulk's stronger and intellectual-self. All of his natural superhuman abilities have been enhanced such as his strength, speed, invulnerability, and stamina. He also has a very incredible regenerative healing factor, being able to absorb ground zero gamma radiation, etc. Maestro is also capable of seeing celestial beings and able to resist mind control (as shown in 'The Defenders' series). However, these two share almost same powers, Maestro is the stronger counterpart as he's Hulk's future-self and was exposed to gamma radiation making him immensely superior in all ways. And like they always say, "The angrier he gets, the stronger he gets". This goes for not only WWH, but for Maestro as well and being Hulk's superior, He will be able to finish him off when both are at the highest boiling point.

What Gorilla Grodd could do his, try to tap into the brain of Batman and mentally control him to an extent than kill him once he's the last standing. Unless Batman as some sort of telepathic or telekinetic defense for his attacks, then I highly think this will be the case (or any of GG's opponents that are immune to telepathy in that matter). He's also one of Flash's archnemesis, one of the fastest beings alive and if he's able to keep up with Barry's speed than he'll be able to keep up with anyone elses as well. I haven't really gotten to prep time yet, but he's pretty much my main man for this department. He is a scientific genius who has mastered Gorilla City's advanced technology and has created many incredible inventions of his own including big laser guns, etc. Imagine what he'll be able to come up with in an hour or so, strategically, tactically, and physically. He's also a brute powerhouse and was the one to rip apart Professor Zolomon, hence would bring about transformation to Zoom.

Again, I'll touch up more on their prep time and superhuman strength and other abilities in other posts. Thanks again for actually posting up some kind of debate, so we could get this thing started already!

#9 Posted by dondave (37612 posts) - - Show Bio
#10 Posted by dondave (37612 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Although, he is vulnerable to sharp objects (as for Wolverine as well), he does possess great amount of durability, having survived multiple explosions at ground zero and withstand falling from heights that would kill any normal being. He also has amazing regenerative healing factors, as he was not only able to merely defeated his son but regenerate quite quickly from the slashes as well. IIRC Deathstroke caught one of the knives and threw it back at him with accuracy, then went bloodlusted and killed the people that hired his son to assassinate him. He has been severely punctured from a sword before, regenerated almost instantly. IIRC one of the times he was stabbed by Tomo while fighting off 10,000 of his ninjas, regenerated then jumped out of a building with him and evidently killing Tomo, with GR walking away with hardly a scratch from the impact.

Although Deathstroke has had some impressive durability feats, they however,were due to his armour. This won't help him against Wolverines claws. His healing factor is nowhere near the levels of that of Wolverine. He did not regenerate from his son's attacks; after killing the assassins parents he immediately fainted from blood loss and already had a pre-existing injury that hadn't healed. He didn't survive the fall without a scratch, he broke 3 ribs and injured his spleen and he didn't take the full force of the fall as he used Tomo's body to take the brunt of the impact and admitted he would have died if he fell from that height.

However, if Wolverine does get close enough to puncture through Deathstroke, Slade Wilson's known to be very, very agile and a great strategical tactician being always five or more steps ahead with plans of action. Here are some of the things he would be able to do to Wolverine if he is able to actually get in close range of Deathstroke and throw a blow at him:

Deathstroke wouldn't be able to dismember Wolverine due to his Adamantium skeleton being unbreakable

And if Wolverine ever tries to do his leaping thrust into the air to try and get an easier kill from above, well, Deathstroke has some tricks up his sleeves for this kind of striking:

If Wolverine comes close enough, Deathstroke could be able to rip off his admantium bone claws and remove his main choice of weaponry permanently (displays great agility and speed throughout the whole fight):

Deathstroke would not be able to rip out Wolverine's claws. Characters stronger than him such as the Hulk have tried and failed.

Deathstroke has also been able to take on immortals. Those that are much superior than Wolverine in brute strength and regenerative healing factors using tactical strategies, thinking, etc

Deathstroke couldn't permanently kill Koschei and the same would be seen in this battle. The only reason that Deathstroke beat Koschei was because he only relied on his brute skill and healing factor. The same cannot be said for Wolverine as he has spent time honing his martial arts skills.

Also want to talk more about what he's capable of with the amount of prep time, as well as his speed and agility compared to Wolverine's; but I'll get more into that with the next post.

#11 Posted by Raw_Material (3230 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Thanks for the heads up, I was going with the wrong character. I thought it was Darwin that you wanted instead, but this makes more sense, lol :P Anyway, the fight against Aquaman will be a close one. However, Aquaman's able to tank energy blasts and heat vision such as the one Black Manta and Ocean Master uses on him in the New 52. This will definitely cause confusion within Vulcan, and has it's stated if he uses is powers for a limited time, it and he becomes gradually weaker. Being of an aquatic nature, he's also able to maneuver underwater very skillfully and most likely try to bring him down to the ocean floor. With the superhuman abilities of his agility, speed, trident, and brute strength, he'll be able to do in a simple manner. Given the amount of prep time and being a strategical tactician like Deathstroke & Ozymandias, he (if not, all of three of them) will come up with a theoretical answer as to how to split the two mutants apart (Darwin and Vulcan). They'll figure out that they're gonna have to reach his mind in order to do so (which is quite obvious) and use Gorilla Grodd's strong telepathic abilities to mind manipulate them apart. Once Vulcan's detached from Darwin, he's more vulnerable to attacks as a normal human being would be. Now that I think of it, a Vulcan and Gorilla Grodd battle will be most likely to be the case here. As mentioned before, Grodd is a very intellectual genius and does possess phenomenal telepathic, psionic, and telekinetic powers.

If Vulcan and Aquaman were to go up against each other, I don't think he'll have a near chance of winning:
Aquaman is considered class 100 and one of the strongest superhuman beings in the universe, controversial but somewhat agreeable. He has been depicted to lifting submerged tanks, oil rig platforms, city blocks, and cruise ships. Aquaman is very skilled in hand-to-hand combat and has been able to take on superhumans such as Deathstroke, Superboy, Superman (New 52), Wonder Woman (New 52), Batman (New 52), Olympian and Power Ring from just his natural superhuman abilities (agility, speed, reflexes, prowess, durability, etc.) Vulcan on the other hand, is stated to not have any type of superhuman strength whatsoever and only when infused with Darwin does his durability increase somewhat.

Although, like I said Aquaman does try to only trust in his superhuman abilities, he's also shown to be a great tactician being a great leader of Atlantis and should have a strategic advantage if all goes wrong. He can telepathically call upon the monsters of the sea to help in battle as well as summon tidal waves and lightning bolts from his trident. Aquaman is also very tactical and unorthodox with his trident. His trident has the strength to break through Graves' magical ice barrier, pierce Darkseid, and hold up the weight of a huge vehicle. He's been depicted using his trident to defeat Darkseid being the only leaguer to actually cause him to bleed out, also crushing lots of parademons' heads in the process; being compared to Wonder Woman's feats, at the time. Aquaman has also used his trident in his battle against the talons, Black Manta, the Trench and Atlanteans which he successfully came up on top in each battle.

Here's the infamous scene where Aquaman merely defeats Superboy and uses his strategical tactics while in battle to overcome all odds (this battle displays his enhanced reflexes, agility, speed, strength, and strategical tactics)

Here's Aquaman shattering Graves' magical ice barrier that was deemed indestructible until he broke it:

Here is Aquaman defeating Zum by telepathically finding the element of his brain that was inherited by his marine ancestors. He is also known to have used it on powerhouses such as Superman and Despero as well.

Being able to withstand the immense pressure of the ocean depths, Aquaman skin durability's tough enough to be invulnerable to extreme gun fire, heat, and sharp objects making him able to withstand blows from the likes of Superboy, Deathstroke, Darkseid, and would probably be able to take on Vulcan who possesses only a peak human strength level.

Here's a scene of Aquaman's first years on the Justice League where he telepathically calls upon the "dogs of the ocean" in assistance to devour the flying parademons overseas. He also displays great skills with his trident, strong telepathic powers, strategical tactics, and extremely high durability (being shot at my choppers with high-caliber bullets)

Misc.

Aquaman's speed is also substantial being depicted to go about 1000knots having dodged multiple arrows at once in all directions, chasing class-7 sting ray missiles, and even outswim The Operative's special plane that can reach hypersonic speeds greater than Mach 10. His speed and reflexes are beyond compared to in the water but does carry over his attributes while on the surface as well. Here are scans depicting his supernatural abilities such as his speed, reflexes, and agility:

Here's the panel where he locks into Superman's brain:

The scene between Aquaman and Power Ring:

The infamous panel of Aquaman and Martian Manhunter takes on Despero:

#12 Edited by Raw_Material (3230 posts) - - Show Bio

@diredrill said:

Cage is fine in some movies but he is not capable of pulling off a superhero.

Yea feel you..He's a great, and I mean great historian as he played in National Treasure films. But I remember he played worst characters than Ghost Rider (which I thought he did really well in) I think it was like Sorcerer's Apprentice or Season of the Witch, but that was totally awful and didn't match the character at all..Bangkok Dangerous was a movie he a really good role for, I remember..He blends in well with being like a bounty hunter, assassin or something too..

P.S. You do now his last name was totally different then Cage, as he changed it in resemblance to one of his favorite superhero characters, Luke Cage during his years of acting and even had a Ghost Rider tattoo they had to cover up during the film of Ghost Rider. I really enjoy watching comic book related movies where the actor loves playing the role and are fans of comics themselves like Samuel Jackson, Ben Affleck, Chris Evans, Jessica Alba, Jennifer Gardner, Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool not Hal Jordan, and Robert Downey - I know he reads his comics cause he plays one hell of a Iron Man!

#13 Posted by dondave (37612 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Thanks for the heads up, I was going with the wrong character. I thought it was Darwin that you wanted instead, but this makes more sense, lol :P Anyway, the fight against Aquaman will be a close one. However, Aquaman's able to tank energy blasts and heat vision such as the one Black Manta and Ocean Master uses on him in the New 52. This will definitely cause confusion within Vulcan, and has it's stated if he uses is powers for a limited time, it and he becomes gradually weaker. Being of an aquatic nature, he's also able to maneuver underwater very skillfully and most likely try to bring him down to the ocean floor. With the superhuman abilities of his agility, speed, trident, and brute strength, he'll be able to do in a simple manner.

Vulcan doesn't have to attack Aquaman with any blatant energy attacks. All he has to do is shut down the Electrical Current in Aquaman's Brain and he's incapacitated for the rest of this battle.

Given the amount of prep time and being a strategical tactician like Deathstroke & Ozymandias, he (if not, all of three of them) will come up with a theoretical answer as to how to split the two mutants apart (Darwin and Vulcan). They'll figure out that they're gonna have to reach his mind in order to do so (which is quite obvious) and use Gorilla Grodd's strong telepathic abilities to mind manipulate them apart. Once Vulcan's detached from Darwin, he's more vulnerable to attacks as a normal human being would be. Now that I think of it, a Vulcan and Gorilla Grodd battle will be most likely to be the case here. As mentioned before, Grodd is a very intellectual genius and does possess phenomenal telepathic, psionic, and telekinetic powers.

The only reason Marvel Girl was able to separate Darwin from Vulcan was because Vulcan himself had allowed her to read his mind.Them trying to attack Vulcan's mind is a big no-no. When he first appeared Emma Frost while in Cerebro fainted just by trying to read his mind. Not to mention Martian Manhunter can protect my whole team from Telepathic assaults.

If Vulcan and Aquaman were to go up against each other, I don't think he'll have a near chance of winning:

Aquaman is considered class 100 and one of the strongest superhuman beings in the universe, controversial but somewhat agreeable. He has been depicted to lifting submerged tanks, oil rig platforms, city blocks, and cruise ships. Aquaman is very skilled in hand-to-hand combat and has been able to take on superhumans such as Deathstroke, Superboy, Superman (New 52), Wonder Woman (New 52), Batman (New 52), Olympian and Power Ring from just his natural superhuman abilities (agility, speed, reflexes, prowess, durability, etc.) Vulcan on the other hand, is stated to not have any type of superhuman strength whatsoever and only when infused with Darwin does his durability increase somewhat.

Although, like I said Aquaman does try to only trust in his superhuman abilities, he's also shown to be a great tactician being a great leader of Atlantis and should have a strategic advantage if all goes wrong. He can telepathically call upon the monsters of the sea to help in battle as well as summon tidal waves and lightning bolts from his trident. Aquaman is also very tactical and unorthodox with his trident. His trident has the strength to break through Graves' magical ice barrier, pierce Darkseid, and hold up the weight of a huge vehicle. He's been depicted using his trident to defeat Darkseid being the only leaguer to actually cause him to bleed out, also crushing lots of parademons' heads in the process; being compared to Wonder Woman's feats, at the time. Aquaman has also used his trident in his battle against the talons, Black Manta, the Trench and Atlanteans which he successfully came up on top in each battle.

Here's the infamous scene where Aquaman merely defeats Superboy and uses his strategical tactics while in battle to overcome all odds (this battle displays his enhanced reflexes, agility, speed, strength, and strategical tactics)

Here's Aquaman shattering Graves' magical ice barrier that was deemed indestructible until he broke it:

Here is Aquaman defeating Zum by telepathically finding the element of his brain that was inherited by his marine ancestors. He is also known to have used it on powerhouses such as Superman and Despero as well.

Being able to withstand the immense pressure of the ocean depths, Aquaman skin durability's tough enough to be invulnerable to extreme gun fire, heat, and sharp objects making him able to withstand blows from the likes of Superboy, Deathstroke, Darkseid, and would probably be able to take on Vulcan who possesses only a peak human strength level.

Here's a scene of Aquaman's first years on the Justice League where he telepathically calls upon the "dogs of the ocean" in assistance to devour the flying parademons overseas. He also displays great skills with his trident, strong telepathic powers, strategical tactics, and extremely high durability (being shot at my choppers with high-caliber bullets)

Misc.

Aquaman's speed is also substantial being depicted to go about 1000knots having dodged multiple arrows at once in all directions, chasing class-7 sting ray missiles, and even outswim The Operative's special plane that can reach hypersonic speeds greater than Mach 10. His speed and reflexes are beyond compared to in the water but does carry over his attributes while on the surface as well. Here are scans depicting his supernatural abilities such as his speed, reflexes, and agility:

Here's the panel where he locks into Superman's brain:

The scene between Aquaman and Power Ring:

The infamous panel of Aquaman and Martian Manhunter takes on Despero:

He will not be able to use his abilities if he's immediately knocked unconscious by Vulcan. What does the scan of him and Martian Manhunter prove, they both lost this battle with Despero. Also decide what version of Aquaman your using Pre-Ne 52 or New 52.

#14 Posted by Raw_Material (3230 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Well in that case I'll go with what might be fun to use, probably Pre-52 Aquaman. Vulcan's only skilled in energy manipulation as his attack and force fields as a defense. Now, he does not possess any superhuman strength or durability when it comes to abilities in combat like his other companions and opponents. Aquaman has been known to lift objects such as oil rig platforms, buildings (as shown in recent posts), submerged tanks, and huge boulders, having a strength level of lifting up to 100+ tons of weight in the water. This being said, one solid blow from Aquaman it's lights out for Vulcan. In Pre-52 continuity, he acquires exceptional h2h combat skills and has been able to take on meta-humans such as Deathstoke, Wonder Woman, Olympian (power of the fifty argonaut gods), the Deep Six, Superboy, Triton, and other super beings that were superior to him. Most of those he's fought before, Aquaman displayed his brute strength, prowess, and other natural abilities as well as his intellectual critical thinking and strategical tactics.

Here's a panel depicting Aquaman's lifting prowess right before the battle against Kordax, a royal ancestor said to be his superior.

Aquaman also possesses great telepathy on top of his natural attributes, being one of his most infamous abilities alongside AQ's raw strength and tough durability. He's been shown not only to use his telepathy as attacks, but defenses as well having resisted mind manipulation from beings before. He has also had the ability to probe into Martian Manhunter's mind without his acknowledgement showing that he is a very skilled telepath. Aquaman also displays is willpower and reliability on his telepathy, when he defeats Kordax with it and in doing so saves the entire Atlantean race from the mind control of his. He also shows great strength and agility, taking on a being that is stated to be far more superior than he is.

He has also merely defeated Superboy using his telepathy to call upon huge blue whales and a tidal wave to come smashing down on him, evidently knocking him half-unconscious. Here he uses his strategical tactics while in battle to overcome all odds and displays his enhanced reflexes, agility, speed strength going up against a superhuman powerhouse like Superboy.

Now, that his combat features with his telepathy is partially laid out. Here is Aquaman defeating Zum telepathically by finding the element of his brain that was inherited by his marine ancestors. Zum, being a speedster, should be very confused as to how Aquaman was able to catch him with his telepathy while running picoseconds around the battlefield. Their ability to think fast also allows them some resistance to telepathy, as their thoughts operate at a rate too rapid for telepaths. For example, when Gorilla Grodd tried to telepathically tap into Flash's mind, but was unable to do so as Barry simply increased his brain activity. However, Aquaman had the ability to catch Zum's mind and manipulate it to the point it gave Zum a seizure. Now, I believe if Vulcan does try to tap into Aquaman's mind, I think he'll be counter it seconds before the electric charge even goes through as he displays very fast and powerful mind manipulation. This being said, Vulcan uses the effect of energy based constructs to help him form some sort of telekinetic/telepathic power and will take time to conduct (no matter how much time...time is wasted). I do know that Vulcan is a very reluctant and confident being and does not look ahead of action to win battles, which I believe will be a huge factor played in this fight as Aquaman is accustomed to critical thinking and calling audibles in battle to win against all odds.

Here's the scene of Aquaman capturing Zum in his telepathic control:

#15 Edited by The_Legendary_SuperSaiyan_Hulk (10090 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going to side with Reefermadness

#16 Posted by oceanmaster21 (8072 posts) - - Show Bio

Dondave has my vote

#17 Posted by Raw_Material (3230 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_legendary_supersaiyan_hulk: Thanks man, appreciated. Don't worry, I think we could win too :D

Other than Aquaman, Deathstroke is also known to be a very tactical strategist and considered one of the best. His expertise and knack is explosives and time bombs, but is also known for other tactics that helps him win in the long run even when it seems like he's losing, Deathstroke's always steps ahead as he uses primarily 90% of his brain activities. That being said, he is also able to withstand being at ground zero of a bomb explosion and walk away with hardly a scratch as shown in these panels:

These are panels of Deathstroke using his critical thinking to overcome all odds and withstanding an explosion blast plus being launched out of a window.

Here's a scene where Deathstroke takes on Koschei again and uses his strategical tactics to kill the unkillable. He also displays his superhuman abilities as he takes on someone far more superior than he is:

If Wolverine tries to get close to inflict damage he can most likely end up with a grenade in his pocket or stuffed in mouth. Other than using grenades, he could also use C4 explosives and other detonators to plant on Wolverine once he gets in range. Deathstroke his a really agile and fast meta-human and is able to swiftly dodge attacks and counter them as his own. However, if he was to get stabbed with Wolverine's admantium bone claws, you can expect Deathstroke to have a plan of action when he does and will probably throw on a explosive patch onto his chest:

Imagine this meta-human as Wolverine trying to do his "leaping thrust strike":

Here's a scene where Deathstroke fights off multiple people displaying great prowess, speed, agility, and durability even giving one of them a good ol' fashion "Wolverine" slash without claws! Thereafter, he takes on Legacy, a meta-human far more stronger than he is and when he does get into close range of Deathstroke, he gets beheaded.

Deathstroke's a tactical strategist and is always a few steps ahead of his opponents. He is accustomed to countering his enemies attacks with strikes, but also has a knack for explosives. If Wolverine does get into close range and pierces Deathstroke with his claws, you can bet that DS has a plan of action, if not a dozen, and will use of them to defeat Wolverine. His claws are apart of him, so if he does get his claws stuck into Deathstroke, his only way to escape is to rip his admantium's off or try to rip through DS. However, he does possess enough strength and regenerative healing to keep himself alive to deliver the final blow (if it even comes down to this).

#18 Edited by dondave (37612 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave: Well in that case I'll go with what might be fun to use, probably Pre-52 Aquaman. Vulcan's only skilled in energy manipulation as his attack and force fields as a defense. Now, he does not possess any superhuman strength or durability when it comes to abilities in combat like his other companions and opponents. Aquaman has been known to lift objects such as oil rig platforms, buildings (as shown in recent posts), submerged tanks, and huge boulders, having a strength level of lifting up to 100+ tons of weight in the water. This being said, one solid blow from Aquaman it's lights out for Vulcan. In Pre-52 continuity, he acquires exceptional h2h combat skills and has been able to take on meta-humans such as Deathstoke, Wonder Woman, Olympian (power of the fifty argonaut gods), the Deep Six, Superboy, Triton, and other super beings that were superior to him. Most of those he's fought before, Aquaman displayed his brute strength, prowess, and other natural abilities as well as his intellectual critical thinking and strategical tactics.

Here's a panel depicting Aquaman's lifting prowess right before the battle against Kordax, a royal ancestor said to be his superior.

Aquaman also possesses great telepathy on top of his natural attributes, being one of his most infamous abilities alongside AQ's raw strength and tough durability. He's been shown not only to use his telepathy as attacks, but defenses as well having resisted mind manipulation from beings before. He has also had the ability to probe into Martian Manhunter's mind without his acknowledgement showing that he is a very skilled telepath. Aquaman also displays is willpower and reliability on his telepathy, when he defeats Kordax with it and in doing so saves the entire Atlantean race from the mind control of his. He also shows great strength and agility, taking on a being that is stated to be far more superior than he is.

He has also merely defeated Superboy using his telepathy to call upon huge blue whales and a tidal wave to come smashing down on him, evidently knocking him half-unconscious. Here he uses his strategical tactics while in battle to overcome all odds and displays his enhanced reflexes, agility, speed strength going up against a superhuman powerhouse like Superboy.

Now, that his combat features with his telepathy is partially laid out. Here is Aquaman defeating Zum telepathically by finding the element of his brain that was inherited by his marine ancestors. Zum, being a speedster, should be very confused as to how Aquaman was able to catch him with his telepathy while running picoseconds around the battlefield. Their ability to think fast also allows them some resistance to telepathy, as their thoughts operate at a rate too rapid for telepaths. For example, when Gorilla Grodd tried to telepathically tap into Flash's mind, but was unable to do so as Barry simply increased his brain activity. However, Aquaman had the ability to catch Zum's mind and manipulate it to the point it gave Zum a seizure. Now, I believe if Vulcan does try to tap into Aquaman's mind, I think he'll be counter it seconds before the electric charge even goes through as he displays very fast and powerful mind manipulation. This being said, Vulcan uses the effect of energy based constructs to help him form some sort of telekinetic/telepathic power and will take time to conduct (no matter how much time...time is wasted). I do know that Vulcan is a very reluctant and confident being and does not look ahead of action to win battles, which I believe will be a huge factor played in this fight as Aquaman is accustomed to critical thinking and calling audibles in battle to win against all odds.

Here's the scene of Aquaman capturing Zum in his telepathic control:

Vulcan is not a telepath he's not trying to Tap into Aquaman's mind. He's shutting down they Electric Current flows through his Brain. Even if Aquaman could Launch an attack telepathically before Vulcan attacks him it won't work as previously shown Emma Frost in Cerebro tied to read his mind and went into a seizure and fainted not to mention that I have Martian Manhunter to can help protect the minds of his other team-mate thereby negating any telepathic assault

#19 Posted by dondave (37612 posts) - - Show Bio

Other than Aquaman, Deathstroke is also known to be a very tactical strategist and considered one of the best. His expertise and knack is explosives and time bombs, but is also known for other tactics that helps him win in the long run even when it seems like he's losing, Deathstroke's always steps ahead as he uses primarily 90% of his brain activities. That being said, he is also able to withstand being at ground zero of a bomb explosion and walk away with hardly a scratch as shown in these panels:

These are panels of Deathstroke using his critical thinking to overcome all odds and withstanding an explosion blast plus being launched out of a window.

Here's a scene where Deathstroke takes on Koschei again and uses his strategical tactics to kill the unkillable. He also displays his superhuman abilities as he takes on someone far more superior than he is:

If Wolverine tries to get close to inflict damage he can most likely end up with a grenade in his pocket or stuffed in mouth. Other than using grenades, he could also use C4 explosives and other detonators to plant on Wolverine once he gets in range. Deathstroke his a really agile and fast meta-human and is able to swiftly dodge attacks and counter them as his own. However, if he was to get stabbed with Wolverine's admantium bone claws, you can expect Deathstroke to have a plan of action when he does and will probably throw on a explosive patch onto his chest:

Imagine this meta-human as Wolverine trying to do his "leaping thrust strike":

Here's a scene where Deathstroke fights off multiple people displaying great prowess, speed, agility, and durability even giving one of them a good ol' fashion "Wolverine" slash without claws! Thereafter, he takes on Legacy, a meta-human far more stronger than he is and when he does get into close range of Deathstroke, he gets beheaded.

Deathstroke's a tactical strategist and is always a few steps ahead of his opponents. He is accustomed to countering his enemies attacks with strikes, but also has a knack for explosives. If Wolverine does get into close range and pierces Deathstroke with his claws, you can bet that DS has a plan of action, if not a dozen, and will use of them to defeat Wolverine. His claws are apart of him, so if he does get his claws stuck into Deathstroke, his only way to escape is to rip his admantium's off or try to rip through DS. However, he does possess enough strength and regenerative healing to keep himself alive to deliver the final blow (if it even comes down to this).

While Deathstroke durability if good if comes from his armour being too strong for him to get hurt seriously while in side it essentially. However on previous occasion's it has shown that it can pierced. So. Deathstroke main vulnerability is Wolverine's main weapon. Wolverine in known for tanking damage and continuing to fight, if Deathstroke could plant an explosive device on him, he'd still be able to fight and his healing factor would eventually heal it for him. The same cannot be said for Deathstroke as he has a Captain America or Spider-Man level healing factor, not on the Level of Wolverine.

Sure, Deathstroke could probably stab Wolverine, however as he being stabbed Wolverine would still be attacking Deathstroke ripping his armour to Shred and killing while his Healing Factor would healed his wound unlike Deathstroke's.

Also why do you keep on bring up the Koschei fight, Deathstroke only beat him because the man didn't know how to fight and only relied and his inability to die and Brute Strength. That is not how Wolverine fights, he can take a lot of damage due to his healing factor and has actual martial art skills unlike Koschei.

Why do keep on saying that Wolverine would get beheaded, he has an Adamantium skeleton he cant be dismembered or be-headed. If Deathstroke does go for this tactic, they battle would be over very quickly.

#20 Edited by Raw_Material (3230 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

While Deathstroke durability if good if comes from his armour being too strong for him to get hurt seriously while in side it essentially. However on previous occasion's it has shown that it can pierced. So. Deathstroke main vulnerability is Wolverine's main weapon. Wolverine in known for tanking damage and continuing to fight, if Deathstroke could plant an explosive device on him, he'd still be able to fight and his healing factor would eventually heal it for him.

Really?! Wolverine would be able to tank an explosive planted directly on him? One enough to blow apart a building? I know his body is entirely admantium, but no way will he be able to keep his limbs together. I mean, if he's healing his body from being blown up into a million pieces, then this is definitely a CIS even if he did, it's still a lost by KO.

The same cannot be said for Deathstroke as he has a Captain America or Spider-Man level healing factor, not on the Level of Wolverine.

I was definitely not saying that he did have greater regenerative healing factors than Wolverine, cause he has one of the best (compared to Hulk and Superman), but it's strong enough to keep a good blood flow going while in traumatizing situations where normal humans would die (as shown in other posts). He also has been able to walk away unharmed in ground zero blast radius, being in close range of his explosive bombs he does plant on his enemies. Such examples apply:

Deathstroke uses 90% of his brain activities like I said above and will be able to plan steps ahead in his mind while in fight. With prep time his is a mastermind and is a very tricky strategist. As you can see he has a knack of explosions, which will definitely KO Wolverine. These are panels of Deathstroke using his critical thinking to overcome all odds and withstanding an explosion blast plus being launched out of a window.

So, that being said, expect Deathstroke to do the exact same thing if and when Wolverine comes into close range. When he does get into range to stick his admantium claws into DS chest, he'll probably COUNTER that strike and throw on a explosive patch onto his:

And if all else fails for Deathstroke, and if you show valid proof that Wolverine could be able to tank a C4 explosion blast at ground zero radius, then by all means Wolverine got my vote in a match against Deathstroke. However, Aquaman could always summon his blue whales and create a tidal wave to come crushing down on Wolverine has he has done so to Superboy (shown in other posts).

You see?

Also why do you keep on bring up the Koschei fight, Deathstroke only beat him because the man didn't know how to fight and only relied and his inability to die and Brute Strength. That is not how Wolverine fights, he can take a lot of damage due to his healing factor and has actual martial art skills unlike Koschei.

Why do keep on saying that Wolverine would get beheaded, he has an Adamantium skeleton he cant be dismembered or be-headed. If Deathstroke does go for this tactic, they battle would be over very quickly.

And I'll show it again.. those scans prove that he's able to take on superhuman immortals with MUCH greater regenerative factors than Wolverine and himself put together. Even though he's a total CIS, Koschei displayed his brute strength which is also much superior than Wolverine and Deathstroke put together. Those panels show his strategic tactics as he was getting choked out by Kos and tossed a grenade in his pants, then tanking the explosion. In their second and last encounter, Deathstroke displayed his enhanced brain activity and used critical thinking to defeat Koschei.

@oceanmaster21

#21 Posted by dondave (37612 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

While Deathstroke durability if good if comes from his armour being too strong for him to get hurt seriously while in side it essentially. However on previous occasion's it has shown that it can pierced. So. Deathstroke main vulnerability is Wolverine's main weapon. Wolverine in known for tanking damage and continuing to fight, if Deathstroke could plant an explosive device on him, he'd still be able to fight and his healing factor would eventually heal it for him.

Really?! Wolverine would be able to tank an explosive planted directly on him? One enough to blow apart a building? I know his body is entirely admantium, but no way will he be able to keep his limbs together. I mean, if he's healing his body from being blown up into a million pieces, then this is definitely a CIS even if he did, it's still a lost by KO.

The same cannot be said for Deathstroke as he has a Captain America or Spider-Man level healing factor, not on the Level of Wolverine.

I was definitely not saying that he did have greater regenerative healing factors than Wolverine, cause he has one of the best (compared to Hulk and Superman), but it's strong enough to keep a good blood flow going while in traumatizing situations where normal humans would die (as shown in other posts). He also has been able to walk away unharmed in ground zero blast radius, being in close range of his explosive bombs he does plant on his enemies. Such examples apply:

Deathstroke uses 90% of his brain activities like I said above and will be able to plan steps ahead in his mind while in fight. With prep time his is a mastermind and is a very tricky strategist. As you can see he has a knack of explosions, which will definitely KO Wolverine. These are panels of Deathstroke using his critical thinking to overcome all odds and withstanding an explosion blast plus being launched out of a window.

So, that being said, expect Deathstroke to do the exact same thing if and when Wolverine comes into close range. When he does get into range to stick his admantium claws into DS chest, he'll probably COUNTER that strike and throw on a explosive patch onto his:

And if all else fails for Deathstroke, and if you show valid proof that Wolverine could be able to tank a C4 explosion blast at ground zero radius, then by all means Wolverine got my vote in a match against Deathstroke. However, Aquaman could always summon his blue whales and create a tidal wave to come crushing down on Wolverine has he has done so to Superboy (shown in other posts).

You see?

Also why do you keep on bring up the Koschei fight, Deathstroke only beat him because the man didn't know how to fight and only relied and his inability to die and Brute Strength. That is not how Wolverine fights, he can take a lot of damage due to his healing factor and has actual martial art skills unlike Koschei.

Why do keep on saying that Wolverine would get beheaded, he has an Adamantium skeleton he cant be dismembered or be-headed. If Deathstroke does go for this tactic, they battle would be over very quickly.

And I'll show it again.. those scans prove that he's able to take on superhuman immortals with MUCH greater regenerative factors than Wolverine and himself put together. Even though he's a total CIS, Koschei displayed his brute strength which is also much superior than Wolverine and Deathstroke put together. Those panels show his strategic tactics as he was getting choked out by Kos and tossed a grenade in his pants, then tanking the explosion. In their second and last encounter, Deathstroke displayed his enhanced brain activity and used critical thinking to defeat Koschei.

@oceanmaster21

Sure, he survived a Nuclear Bomb in Japan during World War II

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/...ren_Round_1.jpg

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/...ren_Round_1.jpg

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/...ren_Round_1.jpg

#22 Edited by Raw_Material (3230 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@reefermadness said:

And if all else fails for Deathstroke, and if you show valid proof that Wolverine could be able to tank a C4 explosion blast at ground zero radius, then by all means Wolverine got my vote in a match against Deathstroke. However, Aquaman could always summon his blue whales and create a tidal wave to come crushing down on Wolverine has he has done so to Superboy (shown in other posts).

You see?

Also why do you keep on bring up the Koschei fight, Deathstroke only beat him because the man didn't know how to fight and only relied and his inability to die and Brute Strength. That is not how Wolverine fights, he can take a lot of damage due to his healing factor and has actual martial art skills unlike Koschei.

Why do keep on saying that Wolverine would get beheaded, he has an Adamantium skeleton he cant be dismembered or be-headed. If Deathstroke does go for this tactic, they battle would be over very quickly.

And I'll show it again.. those scans prove that he's able to take on superhuman immortals with MUCH greater regenerative factors than Wolverine and himself put together. Even though he's a total CIS, Koschei displayed his brute strength which is also much superior than Wolverine and Deathstroke put together. Those panels show his strategic tactics as he was getting choked out by Kos and tossed a grenade in his pants, then tanking the explosion. In their second and last encounter, Deathstroke displayed his enhanced brain activity and used critical thinking to defeat Koschei.

@oceanmaster21

Sure, he survived a Nuclear Bomb in Japan during World War II

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/...ren_Round_1.jpg

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/...ren_Round_1.jpg

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/...ren_Round_1.jpg

Well then.. I guess he's getting dunked into the water instead, Lol :P

Nice scans btw. But, I think from the time the bomb went off to the time he woke up from being severely blown up, the initial battle of the war was done. This will be the exact same scenario if Deathstroke detonates the right size explosion. It will be over and he'll just wake up to pretty much what he woke up to in those scans, complete disaster.

#24 Edited by Pyrogram (38591 posts) - - Show Bio

@reefermadness: I vote ReeferMadness , I think he is done good so far, os voting even open yet?

#25 Posted by dondave (37612 posts) - - Show Bio

@reefermadness: Although Wolverine is mainly know for his healing factor; he can fight unlike Koschei. The only reason he beat Koschei was that he's a better fighter than by far; they same cannot be said for Wolverine. New 52 Deathstroke hasn't gone up against anyone of note or skill that would suggest that he's as good as a fighter as he was Pre-52 meaning that combined with his healing factor allowing to tank the damage Deathstroke would dish out and his martial art skills Wolverine would take the win even if he does take some damage.

#26 Edited by Raw_Material (3230 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@reefermadness: Although Wolverine is mainly know for his healing factor; he can fight unlike Koschei. The only reason he beat Koschei was that he's a better fighter than by far; they same cannot be said for Wolverine. New 52 Deathstroke hasn't gone up against anyone of note or skill that would suggest that he's as good as a fighter as he was Pre-52 meaning that combined with his healing factor allowing to tank the damage Deathstroke would dish out and his martial art skills Wolverine would take the win even if he does take some damage.

Deathstroke's been able to not only fight off someone greater strength but those that are far more superior than he is in the department of H2H combat, etc. Here's a panel where he takes on the flying superhumans themselves; Warhawk and Hawkman. Hawkman is also in possession of the Nth Metal during this fight.

Does this explain enough?

:P

#27 Posted by dondave (37612 posts) - - Show Bio

@reefermadness: Strength isn't always a factor in fight when your facing a skilled opponent as seen in his fight with Koschei and in this fight;Hawkman isn't exactly known for his prowess in Hand to Hand combat

#28 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

My vote goes to dondave.

#29 Edited by Raw_Material (3230 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@reefermadness: Strength isn't always a factor in fight when your facing a skilled opponent as seen in his fight with Koschei and in this fight;Hawkman isn't exactly known for his prowess in Hand to Hand combat

And you've just caught on to this? You've been saying that strength is a huge factor in this bout and that New 52 Deathstroke has yet to fight a foes with superiority over him. In this case, I have shown you the scans of Deathstroke taking out Warhawk and Hawkman, who both possess great superhuman strength, agility, and hand to hand combat (knowing that they are again officers and hunters of an extraterrestrial planet). Warhawk and Hawkman both acquire the Nth Metal and armory. The scans also show that Deathstroke was caught off-guard and depicts his enhanced senses and agility. Your not making sense whatsoever and seems like you're going back and forth with what your trying to state. He also fought Legacy several times (all three being improvised from it's predecessor) which I've also have shown scans of. Being a former solider and bypassing everyone that was top of his class, Deathstroke is accustomed to being a very skillful and experienced hand-to-hand combatant and have carried over this skill set as he was turned into the super solider he is nowadays. Here's a scene where Deathstroke displays his hand-to-hand combat skills, agility, reflexes, speed, and strategical tactics as he takes on meta-humans using anything as a weapon and defeats them using his 90% of brain activities to plan steps ahead of what might happen in different scenarios. These scans clearly depict his experience as a combatant.

Here is Deathstroke taking on Lobo in the New 52. Exchanging blows and even knocking him down.

#30 Posted by dondave (37612 posts) - - Show Bio

Although Wolverine is mainly know for his healing factor; he can fight unlike Koschei. The only reason he beat Koschei was that he's a better fighter than by far; they same cannot be said for Wolverine. New 52 Deathstroke hasn't gone up against anyone of note or skill that would suggest that he's as good as a fighter as he was Pre-52 meaning that combined with his healing factor allowing to tank the damage Deathstroke would dish out and his martial art skills Wolverine would take the win even if he does take some damage.

@reefermadness: This is what I said I never mentioned strength at all

#31 Posted by New_World_Order (13235 posts) - - Show Bio

BUMP MORE VOTES NEEDED !

#32 Posted by DireDrill (2447 posts) - - Show Bio

I am voting for Dondave here.

#33 Edited by beatboks1 (7237 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm only half way through. I'll be back to vote- Exhausted

#34 Posted by dondave (37612 posts) - - Show Bio
#35 Edited by dondave (37612 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

#36 Posted by beatboks1 (7237 posts) - - Show Bio

Dondave gets my vote. Though raw material / reefers madness did well

#37 Posted by New_World_Order (13235 posts) - - Show Bio
#38 Posted by Thedarklordpandamonium (4825 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with dondave after reading everything in one go.

#39 Posted by Lvenger (20039 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave:gets my vote for a more well rounded argument in this debate.

#40 Posted by New_World_Order (13235 posts) - - Show Bio

I also vote for @dondave. His argument was better. Plus he countered everything you threw at him. Dondave moves on too round 2.