#1 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

All three teams have one week to prepare for each other. They are aware of who they are up against.

Round 1. Three-way battle, team that has the last man standing.

Round 2. Each team needs to find a way to take down the a portion of the main Avengers team, with a roster consisting of Thor, Captain America, Iron Man, Hawkeye, Shang Chi and Black Widow. Who achieves this or comes the closest?

Thunderbolts:

Leader, Rulk, Punisher, Elektra, Deadpool, Venom. NO MERCY.

Young Avengers:

Loki, Noh Varr, Kate Bishop, Wiccan, Hulkling, Prodigy, Miss America

X Force:

Cable, Hope Summers, Forge, Dr. Nemesis, Domino, Colossus

#2 Edited by jashro44 (25493 posts) - - Show Bio

I am not to familiar with the young avengers or X-Force or Young Avengers but do either team have a counter for red hulk? I know loki is pretty powerful but has he done anything since being turned into a child?

#3 Posted by OreoAssassin (6268 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#4 Edited by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

Merry Christmas, guys.

@jashro44 said:

I am not to familiar with the young avengers or X-Force or Young Avengers but do either team have a counter for red hulk? I know loki is pretty powerful but has he done anything since being turned into a child?

Well, Hulkling and Miss America are pretty strong for YA, but neither one could defeat Ross--for YA, their victory would need to come from prep from Loki, Prodigy, or Noh Varr. Not only that, but Wiccan is potentially the most powerful person in this battle by a good margin. Loki only recently developed the capacity for power again, his child's body was too weak, but he hasn't done anything yet with his new body.

For Thunderbolts, Colossus is the physically strongest member for them, but their victory would likely need to come from teamwork or prep from Forge, Cable, and Dr. Nemesis. Hope is a wild card, too.

@bringnit: What about Ghost Rider?

What about Ghost Rider? I haven't seen him in a story since Circle of Four.

#5 Edited by OreoAssassin (6268 posts) - - Show Bio

@bringnit: Hes joining the Thunderbolts next month so i didnt want to assume anything lol

Online
#6 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

@bringnit: Hes joining the Thunderbolts next month so i didnt want to assume anything lol

Oh, okay. I don't read previews and things so I was unaware. Is it Johnny or which Ghost Rider? Any opinions on the battles?

#7 Posted by OreoAssassin (6268 posts) - - Show Bio

@bringnit: I believe its the Original GR. And id side with Thunderbolts

Online
#8 Edited by homicidalmaniac (8294 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

I am not to familiar with the young avengers or X-Force or Young Avengers but do either team have a counter for red hulk? I know loki is pretty powerful but has he done anything since being turned into a child?

Kid Loki can BFR Red Hulk into a other dimension and Wicann have the potential to be as strong as HOM Scarlet Witch.

#9 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: well they have , for lack of better term HOM Wanda jr, who recently manipulated and entire dimension twisting , turning and changing whatever he wanted and he needed for it was a kiss from his boyfriend.

If young avenger prep the way they should wiccan should really be able to solo both team with ridiculous ease.

#10 Edited by homicidalmaniac (8294 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall said:

@jashro44: well they have , for lack of better term HOM Wanda jr, who recently manipulated and entire dimension twisting , turning and changing whatever he wanted and he needed for it was a kiss from his boyfriend.

If young avenger prep the way they should wiccan should really be able to solo both team with ridiculous ease.

That the power of Gay Rights.Thumbs up for Marvel.

#11 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: well they have , for lack of better term HOM Wanda jr, who recently manipulated and entire dimension twisting , turning and changing whatever he wanted and he needed for it was a kiss from his boyfriend.

If young avenger prep the way they should wiccan should really be able to solo both team with ridiculous ease.

I don't know if it'd be that simple. Thunderbolts have good strategists in Ross and the Punisher, along with the brilliance of the Leader to help them prep. Cable's team has the strategic mind of Cable to lead them, as well as two geniuses in Forge and Nemesis, and Hope can be a game-changer with her power set.

Wiccan is undeniably powerful, but he can be manipulated, and he lacks confidence and finesse. How does he fare if he's getting telepathically attacked by Hope and/or Cable, with an element of bad luck against him from Domino?

#12 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@bringnit: they do get 1 entire week to try and re boost him back to his demiurge state and the last issue would show all he needed for that was confidence.

Heavy making out with Teddy for one week would suffice.

He essentially beat Mother who no only was able to control entire Avengers but every Adults in the world and wiccan beat her in her own dimension and entirely own and remade her universe.

That's just way too much power for any team to be able to match by a good margin specially with only a week of prep.

#13 Edited by King-Stranglehold da first (3226 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: well they have , for lack of better term HOM Wanda jr, who recently manipulated and entire dimension twisting , turning and changing whatever he wanted and he needed for it was a kiss from his boyfriend.

If young avenger prep the way they should wiccan should really be able to solo both team with ridiculous ease.

Wiccan really did that?

#14 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_stranglehold_da_first: yes but I can't post the scan right now coz I am at work I will post you the scan once I reach home in 4 hrs (hopefully )

#15 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

Wiccan really did that?

Alright i am home now so lets post scans. Here Wiccan manipulates Mother's Dimension, an entire universe as well as various copies of Young Avengers from all over.

Being able to manipulate an entire universe with so many super people, with a mere gesture is awesome, and an incredible powerful feat, but Wiccan doesnt stop here. He ascends to Demuirge, his destiny where he is supposed to re-write the very law of magic across every universe. He looks at all the universe, knowing that there is simply nothing he cannot do, apparently give birth to the future and manipulate past simultaneously.

So he overtook one entire universe manipulating it at will, acended further up to look at various universes thinking what he should do, he sees various of his future, changes both past and future, honestly you dont get any more godlike than that.

And he wasnt even boosted by anything external, its was all his own genuine power, while he was struggling in Mother dimension out of fear all it took was a kiss from his boyfriend.

So a week of prep, hopefully a lot of making out with his boyfriend, he gets his confidence back up to turn into Demuirge, neither Thunderbolts, nor Cable and X Force, nor the Avenger, nor all 3 team combined would count for jack against Wiccan alone.

The only question is, was this boost in confidence out of Teddy's kiss simply a fluke or can he actually replicate something like this again. Coz he can then he solos with ease.

#16 Posted by Buckshot (18678 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: I don't really agree with your reading of Billy's feat. Him getting rid of the mayfly dimensions and mother wasn't his normal state with what came after being the demiurge, Teddy kissed him, he demi-urged out and everything followed. There was no evident jump between the first feat and the second, so it's all his demiurge state, and I don't think that's something he'd pull out for just any fight. He did this to fix the mistake he made with own power in a fight where his true love and all of existence were on the line. Him becoming the demiurge was not an light matter or easy decision, and Loki spoke about how even if he did it well, it could end up happening too well and that would have gotten everyone killed. So, it's not like a go-to tactic and its not without great risk. Even when he was in that state its not like he was using it for anything other than the huge mess he had caused (like saving Speed...unless he did, the last issue of YA should tell us exactly how that happened). I don't think it's something he'd be doing in just any fight, I think it's something he'd have to go in knowing he was going to do. Even though he has prep, I doubt he'd prep to do this again and without that prep I don't see him pulling this off. This isn't to say the YA lose right off, just that I don't see him going Demiurge as a likely tactic.

Moderator
#17 Edited by jashro44 (25493 posts) - - Show Bio

@bringnit: I some how missed the part about the one week of prep.

@homicidalmaniac said:

@jashro44 said:

I am not to familiar with the young avengers or X-Force or Young Avengers but do either team have a counter for red hulk? I know loki is pretty powerful but has he done anything since being turned into a child?

Kid Loki can BFR Red Hulk into a other dimension and Wicann have the potential to be as strong as HOM Scarlet Witch.

Kid Loki can do that?

@killemall said:

@jashro44: well they have , for lack of better term HOM Wanda jr, who recently manipulated and entire dimension twisting , turning and changing whatever he wanted and he needed for it was a kiss from his boyfriend.

If young avenger prep the way they should wiccan should really be able to solo both team with ridiculous ease.

I suppose if Wiccan is that powerful the other teams probably cannot win. All though I will just leave the discussion between you and buckshot because I haven't read the issue.

@bringnit said:

@killemall said:

@jashro44: well they have , for lack of better term HOM Wanda jr, who recently manipulated and entire dimension twisting , turning and changing whatever he wanted and he needed for it was a kiss from his boyfriend.

If young avenger prep the way they should wiccan should really be able to solo both team with ridiculous ease.

I don't know if it'd be that simple. Thunderbolts have good strategists in Ross and the Punisher, along with the brilliance of the Leader to help them prep. Cable's team has the strategic mind of Cable to lead them, as well as two geniuses in Forge and Nemesis, and Hope can be a game-changer with her power set.

Wiccan is undeniably powerful, but he can be manipulated, and he lacks confidence and finesse. How does he fare if he's getting telepathically attacked by Hope and/or Cable, with an element of bad luck against him from Domino?

If Wiccan can be manipulated then could Loki maybe manipulate Wiccan into thinking similar events are happening?

Also happy holidays!

#18 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I don't think me and buckshot disagree on the feat all we seemingly disagree is given things can go heavily wrong from Wiccan turning Demiurge how likely is it that Young Avengers would go down the route.

Buckshot clearly agreed wiccan did in fact rather casually got rid of the entire mayfly dimension.

#19 Edited by laidblack (1297 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_stranglehold_da_first said:

Wiccan really did that?

Alright i am home now so lets post scans. Here Wiccan manipulates Mother's Dimension, an entire universe as well as various copies of Young Avengers from all over.

Being able to manipulate an entire universe with so many super people, with a mere gesture is awesome, and an incredible powerful feat, but Wiccan doesnt stop here. He ascends to Demuirge, his destiny where he is supposed to re-write the very law of magic across every universe. He looks at all the universe, knowing that there is simply nothing he cannot do, apparently give birth to the future and manipulate past simultaneously.

So he overtook one entire universe manipulating it at will, acended further up to look at various universes thinking what he should do, he sees various of his future, changes both past and future, honestly you dont get any more godlike than that.

And he wasnt even boosted by anything external, its was all his own genuine power, while he was struggling in Mother dimension out of fear all it took was a kiss from his boyfriend.

So a week of prep, hopefully a lot of making out with his boyfriend, he gets his confidence back up to turn into Demuirge, neither Thunderbolts, nor Cable and X Force, nor the Avenger, nor all 3 team combined would count for jack against Wiccan alone.

The only question is, was this boost in confidence out of Teddy's kiss simply a fluke or can he actually replicate something like this again. Coz he can then he solos with ease.

#20 Posted by jashro44 (25493 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I don't think me and buckshot disagree on the feat all we seemingly disagree is given things can go heavily wrong from Wiccan turning Demiurge how likely is it that Young Avengers would go down the route.

Buckshot clearly agreed wiccan did in fact rather casually got rid of the entire mayfly dimension.

Thats what I meant.

#21 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: When the question essentially turns to whether a character would do something as opposed to whether a character can do something it's best to let people from their own opinion. I just find that question very hard to address .

#22 Posted by jashro44 (25493 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: When the question essentially turns to whether a character would do something as opposed to whether a character can do something it's best to let people from their own opinion. I just find that question very hard to address .

Fair enough.

#23 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7043 posts) - - Show Bio

I was going to vote Thunderbolts, then I saw no Mercy :(

#24 Edited by homicidalmaniac (8294 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Kid Loki did to Miss America in Vengeance

#25 Posted by jashro44 (25493 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: Kid Loki did to Miss America in Vengeance

All right I guess the young avengers probably take this.

#26 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

@homicidalmaniac: When has Kid Loki ever used BFR on an opponent? All instances of him using dimensional teleportation were to move himself and his teammatesto or away from a battle, so it seems like it's something that you need to be a willing participant in.

@jashro44: When the question essentially turns to whether a character would do something as opposed to whether a character can do something it's best to let people from their own opinion. I just find that question very hard to address .

I mean, the whole plot arc had Billy with reservations about Demiurge-ing out due the potential negative consequences. Particularly now after the fact that it was revealed Loki manipulated him, and that he realized he wasn't ready and didn't really know what he was doing, I have to agree with Buckshot that it seems improbable that the Young Avengers would use that strategy under any but the most dire of circumstances.

The other thing that hasn't been mentioned here is that we saw Hope utilize the abilities of the Scarlet Witch during the AvX storyline, so presumably she would have the capacity to do the same thing to Wiccan to at least some extent, assuming telepathic assault isn't a viable option.

#27 Posted by homicidalmaniac (8294 posts) - - Show Bio

@bringnit said:

@homicidalmaniac: When has Kid Loki ever used BFR on an opponent? All instances of him using dimensional teleportation were to move himself and his teammatesto or away from a battle, so it seems like it's something that you need to be a willing participant in.

#28 Edited by Super_SoldierXII (6619 posts) - - Show Bio

A week prep + Forge.

Nuff said.

#29 Posted by BringnIt (3809 posts) - - Show Bio

@bringnit said:

@homicidalmaniac: When has Kid Loki ever used BFR on an opponent? All instances of him using dimensional teleportation were to move himself and his teammatesto or away from a battle, so it seems like it's something that you need to be a willing participant in.

What is this from?

#30 Posted by homicidalmaniac (8294 posts) - - Show Bio

@bringnit said:

@homicidalmaniac said:

@bringnit said:

@homicidalmaniac: When has Kid Loki ever used BFR on an opponent? All instances of him using dimensional teleportation were to move himself and his teammatesto or away from a battle, so it seems like it's something that you need to be a willing participant in.

What is this from?

A Marvel mini series called "Vengeance".