That was in the past. Didn't Surfer get an upgrade? Like I said, he treated Bill as though he didn't mean much and Bill is said to be Thor's equal, or at least a bit below him in terms of overall power. I don't see how Thor can handle current Surfer.
"Thor. I think his godly power is a match for the power cosmic."
I have a scan on the boards where the Silver Surfer states himself that Thor's hammer is more powerfurl than his power cosmic. Thor's beaten him befroe and can do it again."
"Thor. I think his godly power is a match for the power cosmic."
I have a scan on the boards where the Silver Surfer states himself that Thor's hammer is more powerfurl than his power cosmic. Thor's beaten him befroe and can do it again."
Can I see?
"
"
Thor called the Surfer's power "godlike" in the same comic (Non but a god can unleash such power).
" @Morpheus_: Lmao who exactly was enhanced by Lok at that point, check the mallet. "
Why would I check anything, when I know, and I have read the story before hand? I said the Surfer was enhanced by Loki, so I don't see what your laughter is supposed to mean.
If the surfer was enhanced, and he gave it his all, and Thor held back, and the fight ended in a stalemate (because surfer was teleported back out from loki) then this is the case
Surfer+Loki's power <= Thor
Surfer definately < Thor (in theory)
Just a few images for Context understanding of what i mean
" If the surfer was enhanced, and he even says he needed to win even if he needed to HATE thor (which is, in it's essence giving it his all) and Thor held back, and the fight ended in a stalemate (because surfer was teleportet back out from loki) then this is the case
Surfer+Loki's power <= Thor
Surfer definately < Thor (in theory)
Just a few images for Context understanding of what i mean
Gallery
"
The Surfer himself said "I cannot bring myself to hate the Thunder God" at one point.
I have read Silver Surfer vol 1 # 4, and I am aware of the context, Void. Taking into account the fight occurred 41 years ago under special conditions, and the special circumstances during their second one (Blood and Thunder, where Thor won clearly), as well as the alterations in terms of power since then (the Surfer having grown to be far more powerful than before), an estimation for the fight, and an equation Thor > Surfer, or vice versa, can hardly be given.
the comic was written by stan-lee and i doubt anyone else could make it count more lol
yea that with the hate i stand corrected already edited that out. Yet what in essence, you saying that Thor stated that surfer had the power of a god, was that with loki's. And non of surfers attacks could ultimately put thor down.
I viewed Loki granting power to the Surfer as a way to control his actions, rather than adding explicit power to what he already possessed. Also, that is Earth bound Silver Surfer, whose power had diminished after his rebellion against Galactus, and slowly build up again once he broke the barrier and begun to roam the cosmos freely once more. In many ways, he was weaker than later on, and far weaker than he is now.
Yet what in essence, you saying that Thor stated that surfer had the power of a god, was that with loki's. And non of surfers attacks could ultimately put thor down.
Loki's own power, in itself, can't bring Thor down. We've seen it before. Which is why he searched for a candidate to go up against him, and chose the Surfer. So when Thor says he has the power of a God, it's a subtle reference to Loki being the mastermind, as well as a compliment the Surfer's own innate power. Stan the Man was rather famous for having combatants praise each other during fights.
Also, had the Surfer not halted his attack, and pondered on if his actions were misguided, Thor's prolonged seperation from Mjolnir would have reverted him back to Donald Blake's form, thus giving the Surfer the victory. He just relinquished the opportunity to do so.
Well, after Thor experienced his Rune-King side, and after him having "had" the odinforce, he hasn't really shown a difference since without it. Though, after the events of Annihilation, surfer did get a nice upgrade. Guess the only thing i can say for sure is that before both were upgraded, thor would of had the upper hand. Now, who knows.
" @Morpheus_: yea but infacted that he would be joining the avengers... who could really oppose a threat to the avengers "
With Thor and Iron Man back in the Avengers, the scope of their opponents should get bigger, anyway. Instead of powering him down, the level of the opposition should just get up. But I don't think Straczynski had the Avengers in mind during his run on Thor. He just portrayed him as he saw fit, in terms of storytelling.
Well, let's face it, with the Odinforce one could practically almost one-shot anything, pretty moot storytelling lol "oh the mighty storm giant came to the lands of asgard but then the mighty thor with the odinforce came to put the dog out of its misery... again..."
True. But even at his current levels, the scope of the stories should level up. If we take into account the level of the opponents the New Avengers have faced since the Raft breakout, few are worthy challenges for him.
i remember that in The incredible Hulk Annual 2001 hulk beat the crap out of thor whereas silver surfer has been shown much more powerfull than the hulk every time they met (the time they fought in Planet Hulk doesnt count as ss coudnt use his cosmic power) so i guess the result is a silver surfer win over thor
If you read the early iseuss of SS than you realize that 100% from his battles he losses only 2% (That is what u call a hero)
And thor i have seen him lose many times against his enemy's And in the early iseuss of SS he meets the Living Tribunal, the Living tribunal says you have god like powers . And that he is a special person\hero in the marvel U.
So as the SS say's dont under astemate the power cosmic
Thor takes it. Taking into consideration Odinforce, Thor's traded blows with The Hulk and now killed Void. Silver Surfer may be incredibly powerful with his celestial abilities, and he probably is a hair faster than Thor, which gives him that advantage. I would like to see a moment where Thor loses it and goes into berserkergang, then puts all his might in attempting to smash Surfer's board. Cable did it when he unleashed his powers.
" Thor takes it. Taking into consideration Odinforce, Thor's traded blows with The Hulk and now killed Void. Silver Surfer may be incredibly powerful with his celestial abilities, and he probably is a hair faster than Thor, which gives him that advantage. I would like to see a moment where Thor loses it and goes into berserkergang, then puts all his might in attempting to smash Surfer's board. Cable did it when he unleashed his powers. "
Smashing the board doesn't mean much.
Also, no reason to take into consideration the OF, since Thor doesn't have it for months now.
@Morpheus_: True, about the Odinforce I mean, but Thor at full rage in berserkergang would be a great physical match against Surfer, but he would indeed need to summon his godlike power aplenty to match Surfer's celestial power. Still, I say Thor takes it. The god of thunder does not go down lightly.
" @Morpheus_: True, about the Odinforce I mean, but Thor at full rage in berserkergang would be a great physical match against Surfer, but he would indeed need to summon his godlike power aplenty to match Surfer's celestial power. Still, I say Thor takes it. The god of thunder does not go down lightly. "
No one means to imply Thor would be an easy opponent to take down.
However, I just can't see the Surfer losing at this point. His powerset alone is intimidating, and since Annihilation, he seems more unrestrained than usual (he destroyed an entire planet effortlessly, just to humiliate Ravenous). Also, while it is true that Thor would be a great match for the Surfer physically, the Surfer has proven his worth in that area, as well, recently going toe to toe with Green Scar while depowered and severely weakened, and taking down Beta Ray Bill in 3-4 punches - even if it came down to a physical confrontation, the Surfer would not go down easily - even though Thor's strength feats do exceed his.
On the other hand, there is no need for the Surfer to actually fight Thor in such a manner. He could turn intangible at will, and avoid Thor's punches, or blows with Mjolnir, all the while creating a full power cosmic storm, and knock the God of Thunder out. Good as he is, there is a limit to how many blasts of such power Thor can withstand, especially if they are all encompassing (and not concentrated), and as such, not blockable via Mjolnir.
And I'm not taking other exotic abilities, such as board entrapment, molecular manipulation, or attack from the astral plane into account.
No one means to imply Thor would be an easy opponent to take down.
However, I just can't see the Surfer losing at this point. His powerset alone is intimidating, and since Annihilation, he seems more unrestrained than usual (he destroyed an entire planet effortlessly, just to humiliate Ravenous). Also, while it is true that Thor would be a great match for the Surfer physically, the Surfer has proven his worth in that area, as well, recently going toe to toe with Green Scar while depowered and severely weakened, and taking down Beta Ray Bill in 3-4 punches - even if it came down to a physical confrontation, the Surfer would not go down easily - even though Thor's strength feats do exceed his.
On the other hand, there is no need for the Surfer to actually fight Thor in such a manner. He could turn intangible at will, and avoid Thor's punches, or blows with Mjolnir, all the while creating a full power cosmic storm, and knock the God of Thunder out. Good as he is, there is a limit to how many blasts of such power Thor can withstand, especially if they are all encompassing (and not concentrated), and as such, not blockable via Mjolnir.
And I'm not taking other exotic abilities, such as board entrapment, molecular manipulation, or attack from the astral plane into account. "
You hit the nail on a few good points. Post-Annilation, Surfer has unleashed more than he has in the past, and there's still plenty of room to show what he can do. Surfer may avoid Thor's physical assault in a frenzy, and Thor's pride may work against him in this case, since he often tries to take attacks head-on to prove his worth, however, Thor has shown the ability to redirect energy projectiles sent his way, although who knows if such ability would apply to Surfer's celestial energy. I think that Mjolnir's ability to summon and direct lightning would be quite a challenge against the surfer, but Surfer does have the ability to absorb a phenomenal amount of energy, so that stands to question, Thor just might have enough magic within Mjolnir to unleash a constant stream that could just possibly overwhelm Surfer.
Physically, Thor has absorbed cosmic energy to his advantage, in hardening hot lava, and the thermo-blast Mjolnir is capable of could also prove threatening to Surfer. I think that Thor's godlike senses would pick up on Surfer summoning up a cosmic storm, and if Surfer chose to turn intangible, Thor could possibly use the magic through Mjolnir to adapt to such a situation, possibly. If Surfer composed himself enough, he could probably avoid Thor, as you alluded to, but when it comes to the frenzy of the thunder god, I would see Surfer taking the situation at hand a bit more serious, in that he probably wouldn't think of doing that as much as parrying projectiles and absorbing while trading blows. If it came down to trading blows, I have no doubt that blow for blow Surfer could probably win, but if Thor utilized his combative skills and experience, I could see him changing tactics and attacking Surfer more and more viciously. On top of knowing Surfer, Thor has also met a former herald in Firelord, so he may somewhat know what to expect from the surfer (not unleashed). Aside from all of this, I can't think of the issue and I really wish that I could, but Thor and Surfer fought once before, and even though Surfer brought Thor down briefly, Surfer admitted to himself that Mjolnir's magic was stronger than his cosmic force (said shortly before wondering why he couldn't lift said hammer).
" You hit the nail on a few good points. Post-Annilation, Surfer has unleashed more than he has in the past, and there's still plenty of room to show what he can do. Surfer may avoid Thor's physical assault in a frenzy, and Thor's pride may work against him in this case, since he often tries to take attacks head-on to prove his worth, however, Thor has shown the ability to redirect energy projectiles sent his way, although who knows if such ability would apply to Surfer's celestial energy. "
There is no real doubt in my mind that Thor could deflect, or redirect the Surfer's blasts. The problem would occur on the occasion that the Surfer actually decides to fight intelligently, and not play Thor's game. A blast can be deflected, but a full power cosmic explosion cannot.
I think that Mjolnir's ability to summon and direct lightning would be quite a challenge against the surfer, but Surfer does have the ability to absorb a phenomenal amount of energy, so that stands to question, Thor just might have enough magic within Mjolnir to unleash a constant stream that could just possibly overwhelm Surfer.
I think lightning wouldn't do all that much to the Surfer - a Godblast would be another matter, but considering some feats the Surfer has in that area, such as willingly entering the heart of suns, the centre of the Earth, and even having a full scale battle within a black hole, it is not a leap to say that he could sustain those attacks. His endurance to energy based attacks is great.
I think that Thor's godlike senses would pick up on Surfer summoning up a cosmic storm
My objection is that even if could realise the Surfer was doing that, how would he counter it? It took the Surfer basically a second to do it against Ravenous. He grabbed him, told him "Learn from this" and subsequently blew up the planet. The first two steps were basically for dramatic effect.
and if Surfer chose to turn intangible, Thor could possibly use the magic through Mjolnir to adapt to such a situation, possibly.
I agree with this. Mjonir's magic has the potential to hit intangible beings, but even one surprise hit until Thor realises the Surfer turned intangible (his appearance does not alter when he utilizes this ability, in contrast to characters like the Martian Manhunter, e.g.), could be crucial.
If Surfer composed himself enough, he could probably avoid Thor, as you alluded to, but when it comes to the frenzy of the thunder god, I would see Surfer taking the situation at hand a bit more serious, in that he probably wouldn't think of doing that as much as parrying projectiles and absorbing while trading blows.
That's basically what happened in Blood and Thunder (the fight Thor won), but one would think the Surfer would know better by now. He lost that way, years ago, and now he's stronger than ever, and wiser from that encounter. And he isn't afraid to fight dirty either, as seen by him using a cosmic blast to distract Beta Ray Bill only to direct his board behind him and hit him with it, then blitz him and take him down.
If it came down to trading blows, I have no doubt that blow for blow Surfer could probably win, but if Thor utilized his combative skills and experience, I could see him changing tactics and attacking Surfer more and more viciously.
In a battle between beings of such power, I doubt actual fighting skill will come into play. Thor rarely ever uses his battle experience, anyway.
On top of knowing Surfer, Thor has also met a former herald in Firelord, so he may somewhat know what to expect from the surfer (not unleashed).
He fought Firelord twice, IIRC.
Aside from all of this, I can't think of the issue and I really wish that I could, but Thor and Surfer fought once before, and even though Surfer brought Thor down briefly, Surfer admitted to himself that Mjolnir's magic was stronger than his cosmic force (said shortly before wondering why he couldn't lift said hammer).
They have fought twice. Once in Blood and Thunder, where Thor was possessed, and once again in the issue you mentioned, Silver Surfer volume 1 # 4, where Loki manipulated them into fighting. Your memory serves you well on the Surfer's phrase, since he did mention Mjolnir to be superior to the power cosmic - he didn't try to lift the hammer, though. I personally consider the Surfer to be adequately noble to accomplish this, but it doesn't have to do with the battle.
Remember that Loki amplified Surfer's power with his own in V1 #4, where as in Blood and Thunder Thor was really pissed off. They both have a range of powers, energy manipulation, absorption and all that. They've both taken on/down heralds and I believe Marvel is trying to give us the impression that they're equals. A case can be made for either of them, but it seems a lot more reasonable to simply concede that neither would win. I would give Thor a slight edge, because I prefer him to Norrin. Just like I understand Surfer fans would give him a slight edge. No matter which way you slice it, this is not a clear cut fight.
"Current Surfer? He stomp in one shot: Blocking Mjolnir like nothing:
Surfer blocking Mjolnir part1
Surfer blocking Mjolnir without effort part2Surfer stomping BRB without effort
Gallery
And finally Surfer one-shoting IM and Thor from Cannceverse:
Surfer one-shoting Thor and IM"
Thor was just getting Surfer's attention in that scan. Thor from 616 has better feats than cancerverse. Thor even did some impressive things outclassing current Surfer. Summoning winds from 1000 worlds and absorbing and redirecting an attack Glory blasts at him when he had no energy left.
"Thor was just getting Surfer's attention in that scan. Thor from 616 has better feats than cancerverse. Thor even did some impressive things outclassing current Surfer. Summoning winds from 1000 worlds and absorbing and redirecting an attack Glory blasts at him when he had no energy left. "
1.Like Surfer to BRB and still he stomped BRB by his bare hands. 2.According to Worldmind and Quasar, Revengers (beside those whos body were changed) were equal to 616 counterparts. 3.Summoning winds won't do anything to someone who drained a star before up-grade. 4.Glory was defeated by draining. Surfer can't be defeated that way. Power Cosmic is everywhere, so Infinity Vortex won't work. 5.Thor can win by BFR. God Blast would put down Surfer, but Thor won't have a chance to shoot it. Against classic Surfer he would be able, because Classic Surfer wouldn't be able to take Thor fast. Current Surfer is able to do it in few punches.
Thor would need prep, first move or something like to win without BFR.
"Thor was just getting Surfer's attention in that scan. Thor from 616 has better feats than cancerverse. Thor even did some impressive things outclassing current Surfer. Summoning winds from 1000 worlds and absorbing and redirecting an attack Glory blasts at him when he had no energy left. "
1.Like Surfer to BRB and still he stomped BRB by his bare hands. 2.According to Worldmind and Quasar, Revengers (beside those whos body were changed) were equal to 616 counterparts. 3.Summoning winds won't do anything to someone who drained a star before up-grade. 4.Glory was defeated by draining. Surfer can't be defeated that way. Power Cosmic is everywhere, so Infinity Vortex won't work. 5.Thor can win by BFR. God Blast would put down Surfer, but Thor won't have a chance to shoot it. Against classic Surfer he would be able, because Classic Surfer wouldn't be able to take Thor fast. Current Surfer is able to do it in few punches. Thor would need prep, first move or something like to win without BFR. "
1. Thor isn't Bill. 2. 616 Thor took far worse beatings than 1 attack from SS. Attacks from Glory whom is fused with 10,000 patheons didn't take Thor out in one shot. 3. Just showing his storm control and power. 4. Thor can drain SS's energy blasts as well. Magic is also everywhere. Thor's immortal life force has also taken Galactus onto the brink of death. 5. Why do you think SS can take Thor out with only a few punches? Thor isn't Bill and Thor has taken beatings from beings stronger than SS before.
Current Thor has also willed himself back to life, can blast lightning far stronger than Storms (Approx 1,000,000 times more powerful). Not only that, SS can block Mjolnir once with his board, but can he block it when it's flying at him through other directions at millions-billions of times ftl?
" 1.Like Surfer to BRB and still he stomped BRB by his bare hands. 2.According to Worldmind and Quasar, Revengers (beside those whos body were changed) were equal to 616 counterparts. 3.Summoning winds won't do anything to someone who drained a star before up-grade. 4.Glory was defeated by draining. Surfer can't be defeated that way. Power Cosmic is everywhere, so Infinity Vortex won't work. 5.Thor can win by BFR. God Blast would put down Surfer, but Thor won't have a chance to shoot it. Against classic Surfer he would be able, because Classic Surfer wouldn't be able to take Thor fast. Current Surfer is able to do it in few punches. Thor would need prep, first move or something like to win without BFR. "
1. Thor isn't Bill. 2. 616 Thor took far worse beatings than 1 attack from SS. Attacks from Glory whom is fused with 10,000 patheons didn't take Thor out in one shot. 3. Just showing his storm control and power. 4. Thor can drain SS's energy blasts as well. Magic is also everywhere. Thor's immortal life force has also taken Galactus onto the brink of death. 5. Why do you think SS can take Thor out with only a few punches? Thor isn't Bill and Thor has taken beatings from beings stronger than SS before.
Current Thor has also willed himself back to life, can blast lightning far stronger than Storms (Approx 1,000,000 times more powerful). Not only that, SS can block Mjolnir once with his board, but can he block it when it's flying at him through other directions at millions-billions of times ftl?
1.They are equal in power. 2.Glory attack was energy-magic based. Surfer defeated all of this guys without energy beams. Thor won with Glory because he has crazy draining powers. About his durability I will say make my point in answer to 5. 3.Ok, but it won't help him here. 4.a)I already said that Thor would put down Surfer by God Blast, but he won't have a chance to do this. b)I'm not talking energy blasts. I am talking about draining. Surfer can't be drained, because Power Cosmic is limitless. For example, Thor can drain Supe and Supe can't put down Thor fast enough to resist it. But Surfer won't drained because his source in opposite to sun - is limitless. In theory, Thor could use Infinity Vortex to block any outside power, like he did against Juggernaut, but Power cosmic is everywhere. Also, most people are weaker when they someone try to drain their power. But Surfer isn't. Quasar, who can drain a star as well as Thor, tried it and Surfer putted him down. This means that this tactic won't succed. What options (beside BFR) Thor really has?
-Attack him with Mjolnir's strength. It won't work. Surfer already blocked it. And Surfer has as good control on his board as Thor on Mjolnir. I would say that he has it even better.
-Anti-Matter blast, that putted down Mangog. Surfer already surived in black hole. Thor would need to repeat that few times and hit Surfer with it. I know that speed isn't a too big issue here, because Thor already won with Surfer and in that battle Warlock said that he is as fast as his thunders what will put him in 1/3 speed of light class. So Surfer would be only 3 times faster with his nanosecond reaction. But still, one shot is not enough.
-Thermoblast that affected Ego. It will be abosrbed. Surfer too drained a star.
-Infinity Vortex + drainning. I already explained why it won't work.
-Godblast that hurted Celestial and Galactus. It need to be charged. If Thor would be able to take first Surfer attacks, he would win. But he won't.
5.I know that Thor is crazy powerfull being with even more powerfull powers in Mjolnir (hurting Ego with Thermoblast, blocking explosion that could destroy 1/5 of Universe or Cyttorak's power with Infinity Vortex., Anti-Matter blast that can KO Mangog, from inside, but still or God Blast that can hurt even most powerfull beings), but according to Surfer current feats and ability to create black holes, Surfer would take Thor faster than Thor will use his greatest power.
a)Thor back to life with OF. b)this thunder still won't destroy planet. Thermoblast, would but both can be absorbed or reflected by energy attacks. c)thanks to Cosmic Awareness, Surfer would know from where Mjolnir will come. Also, Thor shouldn't throw away Mjolnir, becase Surfer would take him out in this moment. Also Strombreaker didn't hurted Surfer. Mjolnir also won't.
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