Thor vs. Marvel-Girl/Rachel Grey

@Enyalios said:

@EternalGrandMaster: Mjolnir abosrbs energy. There has been no known energy form that the hammer has not been able to absorb yet. Magneto routinely blocks psionic and telepathic attacks with his shields and he has no psionic power whatsoever, his is the control over the electromagnetic spectrum, and his helmet is capable of stopping telepathy via circuitry. Mjolnir, arguably the most powerful artifact in the Marvel Universe, being able to do the same should come as no surprise.

I do find it funny that people think Thor absobing psionic energy or resisting telepathy is a case is bad writing or PIS but little Rachel swinging a psionically constructed hammer with her own hands and knocking Thor down is quite reasonable considering, while Rachel has been shown to be able to knock powerful beings down with her blasts, she has never shown the ability to augment her own physicaly strength with her powers, which in essence is what that image is showin

I know Mjolnir absorbs almost all forms of energy most due to it's mystic enchantments. But Psionic energy is basically Life energy...Can Thor drain somebody's life away and leave them withered?? Telepathy,and TK should be render useless against Thor then but it isn't....The old scan was just Rachel trying to enter his mind while Phoenix they just wrote it with Rachel using a beam instead of instantly jumping into his mind.....TK such as Psylocke can augment their strength a bit It's called Tacticle Telekinesis she also hit him in his torso area. She downed Thor not Knock'd him out.

Phoenix has atomically destroyed Panakrifa and Bug like creatures with it, suspended the action speaking with a skull of Bettel Boy a xmen from the future even after the scenario he was still a speaking Skull..Due to Phoenix powers. Jeans has also fixed 616 Universe instead of letting it die.

Rachel clubbing him with a TK hammer pleases me to no end :)

I don't get the "I'm a god so telepaths can't handle my god brain! Wooooo!". I would get that if Thor was like omniscient or something but he seems pretty basic in mental faculty (not much better than mortals or mutants). The fight between him and Phoenix Emma was a joke when she peaked inside his "mighty god brain" (/snicker) and freaked out...she has a fraction of the uber Phoenix Force...why would Thor's brain freak her out when her TP is so amped?

Makes no sense to me. Anywho, going with Rachel on this because I'm a sucker for the Grey/Summers. Also, the TK hammer was all kinds of win!

I noticed that in the most recent AvX comic (the ones with just the fights), that Thor pulled the same "you can't read my mind, I'm a god and you'll be scared at what you find" crap to Emma as well.  I believe she beat him eventually, as well she should considering the PF, but I was just paging through it at the store so maybe I missed some details.  I dunno, I just don't see his mind as being on such a higher plane than mortals.  He's never seemed to me to be the most subtle-minded of folks.  If anything, his role among the gods is to be the go-by-your-gut warrior, not the deep thinker.  Now if Odin made a claim about psychics not entering his mind, that would be another thing.
 
Also as an aside, they had a Psylocke vs Daredevil fight, and they negated Betsy's psi power by saying that if she invaded his mind, she would go crazy under the weight of all the extra sensory information he takes in.  From my point of view, I can't see that happening to anyone but a novice psychic.  They're just having to come up with excuses for why the X-Men, who have so many psychics (Psylocke, Rachel, Xavier, Legion, Kid Omega, etc.), can't just instantaneously take out 95% of the Avengers.

Where is this "I'm a god, therefore you can't get into my head" stuff coming from? Another telepath got into Thor's head just fine in Thor's own book. But AvX Thor is teh godly minded one.

@CitizenBane: I didn't take from his quote that he's resistant to TP or his minded is Blocked. Just simply i'm a god and my thoughts, memories, and brain functions are higher than that of a Mortal. Going mad entering Thor's head or freaking out is just plain stupid however, I haven't seen Emma vs Thor yet......but should Xavier or any high level Tp be able to go into Odin's mind???? I def think they shouldn't be able to tamper with someone like Odin

.@GreenFuse: I was grinning Ear to Ear when Rachel hit him with the hammer too.

@EternalGrandMaster said:

@CitizenBane: I didn't take from his quote that he's resistant to TP or his minded is Blocked. Just simply i'm a god and my thoughts, memories, and brain functions are higher than that of a Mortal. Going mad entering Thor's head or freaking out is just plain stupid however, I haven't seen Emma vs Thor yet......but should Xavier or any high level Tp be able to go into Odin's mind???? I def think they shouldn't be able to tamper with someone like Odin

.@GreenFuse: I was grinning Ear to Ear when Rachel hit him with the hammer.

Why not? Xavier can enter the mind of Dark Phoenix and Galactus without losing his mind. Xavier has accessed the collective unconsciousness of all living beings in the universe, I would imagine Thor and Odin were included as they are living beings in the universe (which encompasses all dimensions of time and space that are connected to the same sections of time/space in a single universe since there is an Asgard in every universe)

@LordOfAllHumans: Can Xavier beat Galactus in a Telepathic battle? Dark Phoenix had a host and Phoenix is All living Psionic Energy;LIfe/Death Of course he could make contact with it as it likes psionic host. And Xavier can't beat the Dark phoenix either.

For your Scan was this the Illuminati seeking out the Gems and Xavier simply enter'd the Mind Gem/Collective Unconscious? Or is Xavier using the Mind Gem to show Namor n Strange this place........???

@EternalGrandMaster said:

@LordOfAllHumans: Can Xavier beat Galactus in a Telepathic battle? Dark Phoenix had a host and Phoenix is All living Psionic Energy;LIfe/Death Of course he could make contact with it as it likes psionic host. And Xavier can't beat the Dark phoenix either.

For your Scan was this the Illuminati seeking out the Gems and Xavier simply enter'd the Mind Gem/Collective Unconscious? Or is Xavier using the Mind Gem to show Namor n Strange this place........???

The point is not who can beat whom, it's if a mortal telepath can enter the mind of an immortal god (which Thor is not by the way, Asgardians are not immortal), and I have proved yes they can.

@LordOfAllHumans: My grammar was incorrect when I said he can't enter their minds. Yes he can communicate with them TP and other sorts. But Odin, Phoenix, Galactus aren't flinching to a TP like Xavier. He i just gonna get BFR out their mind that's my point...Thor on the other hand has no TP defenses......TP can't take over the Hulk because of his rage and look how long Legion's has been getting TP surgery.

@EternalGrandMaster said:

@LordOfAllHumans: My grammar was incorrect when I said he can't enter their minds. Yes he can communicate with them TP and other sorts. But Odin, Phoenix, Galactus aren't flinching to a TP like Xavier. He i just gonna get BFR out their mind that's my point...Thor on the other hand has no TP defenses......TP can't take over the Hulk because of his rage and look how long Legion's has been getting TP surgery.

With that said, we have no argument sir :) but for the record a strong enough will can take on the Hulk, Bruce Banner has done it, and Jean Grey broke all that down at his request during Onslaught.

Where is this "I'm a god, therefore you can't get into my head" stuff coming from? Another telepath got into Thor's head just fine in Thor's own book. But AvX Thor is teh godly minded one.

@LordOfAllHumans: W/E Dude Glad you can admit TP isn't effective against Odin and beings of higher power.

@EternalGrandMaster said:

@LordOfAllHumans: W/E Dude Glad you can admit TP isn't effective against Odin and beings of higher power.

I didn't admit that and gave evidence that proves it can work on them, if a telepath can enter your mind, read one thought or even sense your presence than it is effective. There is nothing to suggest the mind of a "god" is some unfathomable void that will destroy the mind of a human unless that god has mental powers to back it up, Thor has no such power. Rachel as already shown that she can touch every mind in creation when she went to the M'Kraan crystal and she was fine, every mind in creation is infinitely greater than the mind of any single Earth god, especially when that god is not a telepath and doesn't possess one iota of psi talent.

Thor has beaten Rachel when she actually was the Phoenix. and Emma couldn't invade Thor's mind even with the PF. Rachel actually beating him wouldn't make sense without at least the Phoenix echo.

@Thor's hammmer said:

Thor has beaten Rachel when she actually was the Phoenix. and Emma couldn't invade Thor's mind even with the PF. Rachel actually beating him wouldn't make sense without at least the Phoenix echo.

he deflected an attack (it was telepathic she is also telekinetic), so between the both of them they have both one shotted each other, Emma not being able to invade his mind especially with the Phoenix is PIS at it's best, considering the beating a hostless Phoenix put on him.

Thor although Rachel does have a chance.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Thor's hammmer said:

Thor has beaten Rachel when she actually was the Phoenix. and Emma couldn't invade Thor's mind even with the PF. Rachel actually beating him wouldn't make sense without at least the Phoenix echo.

he deflected an attack (it was telepathic she is also telekinetic), so between the both of them they have both one shotted each other, Emma not being able to invade his mind especially with the Phoenix is PIS at it's best, considering the beating a hostless Phoenix put on him.

Umm Rachel has never ever one shotted Thor. she knocks him away.... he is completely fine but then he is jumped by Phoenix force possessed Namor. Namor with the Phoenix force then defeats him

and the Phoenix force that he fought in space was now divided among 5 people. Emma only has a fifth of it. of the force itself never tried to invade Thor's mind. just burn him. and Moondragon with the mind gem couldn't affect Thor. trying to get in his head when he was pissed was a no sell. and the stranger who is a high level cosmic being's mental attacks also didn't work on Thor.

Thor should have no problem with Marvel Girl. He can take more mental assault than just about anyone, not taking into account that he has bested Galactus, please stop f-ing with Thor. Although Marvel Girl didn't actually defeat him, it seems like the writer was going there. A couple of examples from the Power of Thor page.

MIND RESISTANCE: Thor resisted the Mind-Thrust Of the Colonizer, the Mind Blast of

the Super-Beast- THOR-#135, and resisted a Mind-Storm Blast that the Beast, Iron Man,

and most especially Moondragon could not-Avengers-#138.

@Thor's hammmer said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Thor's hammmer said:

Thor has beaten Rachel when she actually was the Phoenix. and Emma couldn't invade Thor's mind even with the PF. Rachel actually beating him wouldn't make sense without at least the Phoenix echo.

he deflected an attack (it was telepathic she is also telekinetic), so between the both of them they have both one shotted each other, Emma not being able to invade his mind especially with the Phoenix is PIS at it's best, considering the beating a hostless Phoenix put on him.

Umm Rachel has never ever one shotted Thor. she knocks him away.... he is completely fine but then he is jumped by Phoenix force possessed Namor. Namor with the Phoenix force then defeats him

and the Phoenix force that he fought in space was now divided among 5 people. Emma only has a fifth of it. of the force itself never tried to invade Thor's mind. just burn him. and Moondragon with the mind gem couldn't affect Thor. trying to get in his head when he was pissed was a no sell. and the stranger who is a high level cosmic being's mental attacks also didn't work on Thor.

How many shots did it take her to knock him away? One, thus the statement. She completely blocked his blow and one shotted him.

As I said Emma with the Phoenix should have had no problems getting into his mind, the Phoenix is more powerful than him, the piece that was split isn't even a whole piece of it, so yeah PIS. There is nothing special about his mind because he is an Asgardian, if telepaths have problems getting past madness and rage that is another story and is will based, not based on some natural telepathic immunity. They had to play up her not being able to enter his mind simply because she possesses a fraction of a power that can and did mow him down.

Look up the most powerful Marvel characters, is Rachel even on the list? Marvel has become so ridiculous lately that soon the Black Panther will be choking out the Silver Surfer. Crap!

well considering rachel is an omega level mutant i don't really have a problem with her being able to take on thor. 

When I get home I have some scans to post that will change some minds here.

@olschool said:

Look up the most powerful Marvel characters, is Rachel even on the list? Marvel has become so ridiculous lately that soon the Black Panther will be choking out the Silver Surfer. Crap!

and where exactly is this list? The crap is you would mention anything involving Black Panther to make a case against any mutant with the Grey genome.

Look up any list and Thor is right on (or next to) the top. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Rachel wacking Thor with a TK hammer, that was cool. I'm saying there is something wrong with the Marvel Universe when you allow such a fluctuation in power levels, Black Panther did recently take-down the Surfer with some kind of choke hold, lmao. I'm simply stating facts about the power of Thor. I picked up Avengers vs. X-men because I was looking forward to a classic,unfortunately this has not been the case. Different writers (like fans) have their own takes on powers and personalities, that's why editors-in-chief are so important, to keep things real in the reality of the Marvel Universe. 'Nuff said,' except you did not comment on the fact that Thor can (it's been proven) resist psychic attacks, even though that's not my argument. Good Day, and (says the zombie) Make Mine Marvel.

@olschool said:

Look up any list and Thor is right on (or next to) the top. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Rachel wacking Thor with a TK hammer, that was cool. I'm saying there is something wrong with the Marvel Universe when you allow such a fluctuation in power levels, Black Panther did recently take-down the Surfer with some kind of choke hold, lmao. I'm simply stating facts about the power of Thor. I picked up Avengers vs. X-men because I was looking forward to a classic,unfortunately this has not been the case. Different writers (like fans) have their own takes on powers and personalities, that's why editors-in-chief are so important, to keep things real in the reality of the Marvel Universe. 'Nuff said,' except you did not comment on the fact that Thor can (it's been proven) resist psychic attacks, even though that's not my argument. Good Day, and (says the zombie) Make Mine Marvel.

You mean fan lists? Rachel is an underdog and gets no recognition, it's crazy that the Phoenix is running around ignoring her when it it has been shown to prefer her over other vessels when Jean is not around, but I digress. So what? Plenty of people can resist psychic attacks, but he's not immune and it doesn't matter anyway because she is a telekinetic, and he didn't resist that.

As I stated he takes the majority, but it's not surprising that she has the kind if power it takes to give him a fight, she is a Grey/Summers after all and is just as powerful as any of the others, they just don't use her much.

Power fluctuations are all I'm arguing, things like her kicking Gladiators butt or stopping Vulcan one day and being subdued by Betsy or Emma. It works for one issue because you can always say it was a dream or happened in universe 616 squared (yeah, it exists), but when it happens in a (so-called) epoch event it is disheartening. I've been reading comics since the 60's and the one thing I always liked was when I picked up a Marvel Comic I knew who was who and who could do what. I guess it was just easier when it was, "The Thing or The Hulk, what do you think?"

Peace,out.

@EternalGrandMaster said:

@CitizenBane: I didn't take from his quote that he's resistant to TP or his minded is Blocked. Just simply i'm a god and my thoughts, memories, and brain functions are higher than that of a Mortal. Going mad entering Thor's head or freaking out is just plain stupid however, I haven't seen Emma vs Thor yet......but should Xavier or any high level Tp be able to go into Odin's mind???? I def think they shouldn't be able to tamper with someone like Odin

.@GreenFuse: I was grinning Ear to Ear when Rachel hit him with the hammer too.

But thor has been mind controlled many times,Loki has done it twice from what i know Doc Ock did it quite recently in Amazing Spideran 687, weird was he couldnt lift his hammer after that.

I am leaning towards Thor.

Not sure though....

Asgardians tend to have a slight immunity to telepathy. As for Thor warning Rachel to stay out of his head I think that might have been more about the things he's seen in his life than how he thinks and all that.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Thor's hammmer said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Thor's hammmer said:

Thor has beaten Rachel when she actually was the Phoenix. and Emma couldn't invade Thor's mind even with the PF. Rachel actually beating him wouldn't make sense without at least the Phoenix echo.

he deflected an attack (it was telepathic she is also telekinetic), so between the both of them they have both one shotted each other, Emma not being able to invade his mind especially with the Phoenix is PIS at it's best, considering the beating a hostless Phoenix put on him.

Umm Rachel has never ever one shotted Thor. she knocks him away.... he is completely fine but then he is jumped by Phoenix force possessed Namor. Namor with the Phoenix force then defeats him

and the Phoenix force that he fought in space was now divided among 5 people. Emma only has a fifth of it. of the force itself never tried to invade Thor's mind. just burn him. and Moondragon with the mind gem couldn't affect Thor. trying to get in his head when he was pissed was a no sell. and the stranger who is a high level cosmic being's mental attacks also didn't work on Thor.

How many shots did it take her to knock him away? One, thus the statement. She completely blocked his blow and one shotted him.

As I said Emma with the Phoenix should have had no problems getting into his mind, the Phoenix is more powerful than him, the piece that was split isn't even a whole piece of it, so yeah PIS. There is nothing special about his mind because he is an Asgardian, if telepaths have problems getting past madness and rage that is another story and is will based, not based on some natural telepathic immunity. They had to play up her not being able to enter his mind simply because she possesses a fraction of a power that can and did mow him down.

knocking someone down isn't exactly one shotting them. and actually it's been brought up many times that as a God he does have resistance to attacks other than physical including magical, mental and attacks on his soul. But since he's the on of Odin and Gea he has greater resistances than most gods but not all. and when Loki Goes into reed Richards head reed can't deal will all of Loki's knowledge either. the mind of a god is no place for a mortal.

rachel hosted the phoenix pretty much longer than anyone and she is an omega level mutant. hardly a mortal. as for this not being able to handle his godly thoughts stuff... rogue completely absorbed him and did not seem to have a problem with it. 

How can anybody not think it was awesome when she smashed his face into the ground?