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#1 Posted by Outside_85 (11352 posts) - - Show Bio

Both at normal (current) levels.

Morals apply.

Win on K.O.

Starts 20 meters from one another

Thor vs Rachel
#2 Posted by Saren (26399 posts) - - Show Bio

They fought in WatX #12, Rachel made a TK hammer and knocked Thor on his ass with it; then Namor started fighting him.

Moderator
#3 Posted by Outside_85 (11352 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: And thats actually why I made this, because it just seemed like utter rubbish she can even block him...but then again it's Marvel.

#4 Posted by Saren (26399 posts) - - Show Bio

@Outside_85: I have seen another scan of Thor striking down Rachel when she had the Phoenix, though.

Moderator
#5 Posted by Iamlovewithin500 (1039 posts) - - Show Bio

The whole AVX is a load of crock. Marvel is  just showing the Avengers ass to make them look better than the X-men. 
 
It's all about money now folks. 
 
Quantity over Quality... unfortunately 
 
 
*sigh*

#6 Posted by Saren (26399 posts) - - Show Bio

Back to comments that are actually relevant, Thor should win more often than not.

Moderator
#7 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4787 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Back to comments that are actually relevant, Thor should win more often than not.

this

#8 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13329 posts) - - Show Bio

Whoah, why is Mjliaenrfa;kwjneer like 5 feet tall now?

#9 Posted by Owie (4548 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't have too much of a problem with current Rachel winning at least some of the fights. TK is a powerful power. But KOing him would be difficult.

#10 Posted by Outside_85 (11352 posts) - - Show Bio

@texasdeathmatch: Coz the artist has a problem with sticking to regular proportions...always had.

#11 Posted by Erik (32506 posts) - - Show Bio

@texasdeathmatch said:

Whoah, why is Mjliaenrfa;kwjneer like 5 feet tall now?

@Outside_85 said:

@texasdeathmatch: Coz the artist has a problem with sticking to regular proportions...always had.

Could be that or it could be that Thor is able to control the size of the hammer like in actual mythology. I am leaning towards Outside's answer. Just wanted to spam Norse knowledge. :p

#12 Posted by Mercy_ (92689 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

They fought in WatX #12, Rachel made a TK hammer and knocked Thor on his ass with it; then Namor started fighting him.

This delights me.

Moderator
#13 Posted by Outside_85 (11352 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik said:

Could be that or it could be that Thor is able to control the size of the hammer like in actual mythology. I am leaning towards Outside's answer. Just wanted to spam Norse knowledge. :p

Uhh what myths have you been reading?

Mjolnir is exceptional in that it even has a myth about its own creation and why the handle is so short when compared to a normal warhammer, during the forging that span over several days one of the dwarves were told to keep the forge hot while constantly working the bellows while the other worked on the hammer itself. Loki however had gambled his head on this pair of dwarves couldn't beat the elves he had his head on, in a contest of skill between them (the gifts would be handed to the gods as payment for a number of Loki's misdeeds, including cutting off Sif's hair). So he changed into a fly and over the nights returned again and again to pester the one working the bellows, on the third and final night the dwarf finally snapped and tried to swat him away, resulting in the handle being shorter than intended...didn't matter so much because Thor was quite pleased with the hammer when he got it and Loki lost the wager, the dwarves couldn't get his head however because he didn't allow them to touch his neck, in teh end they walked off after sowing Loki's mouth shut.

#14 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20819 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

They fought in WatX #12, Rachel made a TK hammer and knocked Thor on his ass with it; then Namor started fighting him.

LOL.

#15 Posted by Erik (32506 posts) - - Show Bio

@Outside_85 said:

@Erik said:

Could be that or it could be that Thor is able to control the size of the hammer like in actual mythology. I am leaning towards Outside's answer. Just wanted to spam Norse knowledge. :p

Uhh what myths have you been reading?

Mjolnir is exceptional in that it even has a myth about its own creation and why the handle is so short when compared to a normal warhammer, during the forging that span over several days one of the dwarves were told to keep the forge hot while constantly working the bellows while the other worked on the hammer itself. Loki however had gambled his head on this pair of dwarves couldn't beat the elves he had his head on, in a contest of skill between them (the gifts would be handed to the gods as payment for a number of Loki's misdeeds, including cutting off Sif's hair). So he changed into a fly and over the nights returned again and again to pester the one working the bellows, on the third and final night the dwarf finally snapped and tried to swat him away, resulting in the handle being shorter than intended...didn't matter so much because Thor was quite pleased with the hammer when he got it and Loki lost the wager, the dwarves couldn't get his head however because he didn't allow them to touch his neck, in teh end they walked off after sowing Loki's mouth shut.

Probably the same thing you read. I am failing to see how this disproves my statement. Thor was able to change the size of Mjolnir to hide it in his tunic.

#16 Posted by Skaddix (3111 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends on Location. On Earth in a populated environment odds tip towards Rachel by quite a bit. In space with nothing around then Thor has the advantage. Thor's problem being most of his more powerful attacks have devastating Area Effect Properties. Rachel has tp does not destroy the environment and her tk can also be controlled more.

#17 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Outside_85: @Erik: Although I do appreciate some Norse mythology, you guys wanna reply to another instead of quoting. I don't know how I got wrapped up in this discussion.
#18 Posted by Outside_85 (11352 posts) - - Show Bio

@Erik: Hmm, apologies was about to rant before noticing that there actually was design specifications for it in the Prose Edda :)

@texasdeathmatch: Sry :)

#19 Posted by texasdeathmatch (13329 posts) - - Show Bio
@Outside_85: no worries
#20 Posted by BMEZY (1264 posts) - - Show Bio

Rachel has a chance..I don't think Thor would take it with a cut-dry win, but he'll eventually put her down thoug

#21 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12339 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor gets the majority.

#22 Posted by Erik (32506 posts) - - Show Bio

@Outside_85 said:

@Erik: Hmm, apologies was about to rant before noticing that there actually was design specifications for it in the Prose Edda :)

:)

#23 Posted by marvelfanboy (524 posts) - - Show Bio

@venomoushatred1001 said:

Thor gets the majority.

#24 Posted by EternalGrandMaster (255 posts) - - Show Bio

@Outside_85: Why can't a telekinetic Shield Block Mjlonir? It was a regular strike not a Godly blast.

@Iamlovewithin500: All Honesty AVX is utter BS and it's obviously all about the dollars, one big horrible and sloppy Hero show down.

Rachel is strong but I was surprised by the hammer smash but that can't keep Thor down..And I believe she can pierce his mind to a degree so yea I Say Rachel can pull a win on Thor maybe not a K.O but TK written well is Power defined...O also Thor beating Phoenix Rachel was bs he deflected a "energy that was trying to read his mind" total crap it's not something he can defelct in such a manner

#25 Posted by Iamlovewithin500 (1039 posts) - - Show Bio
@EternalGrandMaster: Exactly 
 
BTW I just caught the shade thrown in this thread. 
I know  it was toward me,but I'm going to let go..Never existed. 
 
#Basichoes could NEVA!
#26 Edited by isaac_clarke (5672 posts) - - Show Bio

@EternalGrandMaster said:

@Outside_85: Why can't a telekinetic Shield Block Mjlonir? It was a regular strike not a Godly blast.

@Iamlovewithin500: All Honesty AVX is utter BS and it's obviously all about the dollars, one big horrible and sloppy Hero show down.

Rachel is strong but I was surprised by the hammer smash but that can't keep Thor down..And I believe she can pierce his mind to a degree so yea I Say Rachel can pull a win on Thor maybe not a K.O but TK written well is Power defined...O also Thor beating Phoenix Rachel was bs he deflected a "energy that was trying to read his mind" total crap it's not something he can defelct in such a manner

I could think of a few things. Mostly what keeps coming to mind is her difficulty keeping Providence in the air and the fact Thor can hit really really hard. I'd say the jobbing goes both ways since going into Thor's noggin shouldn't be lethal to a telepath and I'm actually astonished he noticed her attempts to do so. That might be Thor's best telepathic defense showing in a long time.

@EternalGrandMaster said:

@Outside_85: Why can't a telekinetic Shield Block Mjlonir? It was a regular strike not a Godly blast.

@Iamlovewithin500: All Honesty AVX is utter BS and it's obviously all about the dollars, one big horrible and sloppy Hero show down.

Rachel is strong but I was surprised by the hammer smash but that can't keep Thor down..And I believe she can pierce his mind to a degree so yea I Say Rachel can pull a win on Thor maybe not a K.O but TK written well is Power defined...O also Thor beating Phoenix Rachel was bs he deflected a "energy that was trying to read his mind" total crap it's not something he can defelct in such a manner

I always took it as Thor blocking a psi-blast (telepathic bolt). He didn't deflect it, he absorbed it and amplified it by 10 and shot it back at her.

#27 Posted by Iamlovewithin500 (1039 posts) - - Show Bio
@isaac_clarke

I always took it as Thor blocking a psi-blast (telepathic bolt). He didn't deflect it, he absorbed it and amplified it by 10 and shot it back at her.

Still doesn't make much sense to me, because he isn't telepathic nor psionic. 
 
His hammer is magic,yes it can transmute energy..but that was dumb IMO. 
His hammer can do an array of things,but telepathic energy last time i checked was not on the list.
#28 Posted by isaac_clarke (5672 posts) - - Show Bio

@Iamlovewithin500 said:

@isaac_clarke:

I always took it as Thor blocking a psi-blast (telepathic bolt). He didn't deflect it, he absorbed it and amplified it by 10 and shot it back at her.

Still doesn't make much sense to me, because he isn't telepathic nor psionic. His hammer is magic,yes it can transmute energy..but that was dumb IMO. His hammer can do an array of things,but telepathic energy last time i checked was not on the list.

The hammer blocks just and absorbs just about anything tossed at it. He's used it to absorb gravitational field from a planet and use it in a fight before. Nate Grey was able to snatch people psi-energy before and Are's posed plenty problems to him just because he was a god. And let's face it, he's a lot weaker than Thor.

#29 Posted by Outside_85 (11352 posts) - - Show Bio

@EternalGrandMaster: Well because Thor is pretty much considered the absolute pinnacle of physical strength in Marvel, you see that in all the Hulk threads that people persistently keeps putting Thor above even the Worldbreaker. That Rachel does block it, means that her mind powers are supposedly able to pull off the same feats Thor is, save he uses his arms and she uses her mind. Granted I don't think he is trying to kill her so he isn't going all out there, but that said, I dont recall seeing Rachel's name added to 'most powerful psionics' list.

#30 Posted by Iamlovewithin500 (1039 posts) - - Show Bio
@Outside_85: Oh she's on the list 
 
She was host of the Phoenix Force,and even without it she has her mothers impeccable genes. 
 
She's Omega Level. 
 
 
@isaac_clarke said:

@Iamlovewithin500 said:

@isaac_clarke:

I always took it as Thor blocking a psi-blast (telepathic bolt). He didn't deflect it, he absorbed it and amplified it by 10 and shot it back at her.

Still doesn't make much sense to me, because he isn't telepathic nor psionic. His hammer is magic,yes it can transmute energy..but that was dumb IMO. His hammer can do an array of things,but telepathic energy last time i checked was not on the list.

The hammer blocks just and absorbs just about anything tossed at it. He's used it to absorb gravitational field from a planet and use it in a fight before. Nate Grey was able to snatch people psi-energy before and Are's posed plenty problems to him just because he was a god. And let's face it, he's a lot weaker than Thor.

Okay but the gravitational field Is plausible,considering how he has some earth based powers,also the fact that he can manipulate different fields and forms of elemental energies such as EM fields..so a gravitational field wouldn't be much of a stretch. 
 
Though Thor isn't a telepath or psionic, nor is his hammer.I just think it's bad writing.Would of been better if they just had Thor resist with will power or something(being a god). Only Telepaths can re direct TP attacks or block and then counter.Some magic characters such as Enchantress & Wanda maybe able to flip flop the attack(hexes)..but Thor isn't that Type of  magic character. Yes his powers/weapons come from magic,but he doesn't cast spells or use magic in the same form that..maybe Dr.Strange does, or Magik etc.. 
 
Nate Grey can snatch Psi energy because he IS psionic.So In a way that works in his favor and is plausible to be a part of his power set.
#31 Posted by TerryBogard2014 (483 posts) - - Show Bio

using normal logic thor pretty much wins 9/10

using marvel logic thor wins 4/10 because they just love to make him job out to the MU

#32 Posted by isaac_clarke (5672 posts) - - Show Bio

@Iamlovewithin500 said:

Okay but the gravitational field Is plausible,considering how he has some earth based powers,also the fact that he can manipulate different fields and forms of elemental energies such as EM fields..so a gravitational field wouldn't be much of a stretch.

Though Thor isn't a telepath or psionic, nor is his hammer.I just think it's bad writing.Would of been better if they just had Thor resist with will power or something(being a god). Only Telepaths can re direct TP attacks or block and then counter.Some magic characters such as Enchantress & Wanda maybe able to flip flop the attack(hexes)..but Thor isn't that Type of magic character. Yes his powers/weapons come from magic,but he doesn't cast spells or use magic in the same form that..maybe Dr.Strange does, or Magik etc.. Nate Grey can snatch Psi energy because he IS psionic.So In a way that works in his favor and is plausible to be a part of his power set.

It was through his hammer, I'm not even aware if he knew his mother was Gaea at the time. Not so much magic, as it is divine power he's running around with. That might bit more debatable, there's nothing given Thor's heritage that actually prevents him from developing telepathy. Mjolnir however has shown the ability to bring him on the astral plane and reveal a number of alternate futures in the same showing, so it psi-based attacks / energy I honestly think is beyond the hammer's ability to block or absorb or multiply by 10 after wards. And Are's being a god more or less strolled through his defenses.

The hammer suck people's life force into it / through it (including Thor's), drag people onto the astral plane, actually create illusions to an individual, actually there isn't much Mjolnir can't do. Just sayin.

#33 Posted by jeanroygrant (20442 posts) - - Show Bio

@venomoushatred1001 said:

Thor gets the majority.

#34 Posted by jeanroygrant (20442 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

They fought in WatX #12, Rachel made a TK hammer and knocked Thor on his ass with it; then Namor started fighting him.

Do ya happen to have the scan please?

#35 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12339 posts) - - Show Bio

@TerryBogard2014 said:

using normal logic thor pretty much wins 9/10

using marvel logic thor wins 4/10 because they just love to make him job out to the MU

You just earned yourself a follow :)

#36 Posted by Lord Shiva (890 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't know who would win this. Rachel is an unknown factor, her powers vary depending on the writer and situation. One one hand she can rearange molecules with a thought, create black hole and took down Galdiator....other times she had problems taking down Wolverine. Oddly enough, Rachel's real mutantion is not Telepathy or Telekinesis (which are her mother's abilities), it's time manipulation or time skipping.

#37 Edited by Saren (26399 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant said:

@CitizenBane said:

They fought in WatX #12, Rachel made a TK hammer and knocked Thor on his ass with it; then Namor started fighting him.

Do ya happen to have the scan please?

@Lord Shiva said:

she took down Galdiator

With the Phoenix Echo.

Moderator
#38 Posted by TDK_1997 (15766 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor should win.

#39 Posted by Skaddix (3111 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly I find harvesting gravity more bs then psi-conic energy absorption.

#40 Edited by chiq (2142 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor for the Majority. Kinda weird that She did better against Thor w/o the Pf...

#41 Posted by ripcurl (546 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor wins, and Rachel should pick a last name and stick with it...

#42 Posted by Spydey (407 posts) - - Show Bio

@Iamlovewithin500: Hasn't the Avengers lost like...every fight so far though? I mean..Rogue has taken on like..half the team almost.

#43 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4787 posts) - - Show Bio

@chiq said:

Thor for the Majority. Kinda weird that She did better against Thor w/o the Pf...

I don't think it's weird, she had the Phoenix, and unlike most Phoenixes Rachel was herself the entire time, so any feat she did with Phoenix was her using power not her being another being. Rachel still has access to as much power as her brothers and apparently has a greater upper limit because she never burns out like they do, Cable stated before that she was more powerful than him when she was trapped in the timestream. Rachel is an underdog, but like Jean it's hard to pay attention to her real power because she is/was a Phoenix. But it doesn't seem like she forgot how to use power.

Seems to me like their recent fight was a legacy fight, "My father is Odin, My mother is Phoenix, I'm a god, I have been too".

I give Thor a majority because of his past, but in the end her mother (while one with the Phoenix) is more powerful than his father and his mother, and they are the only reason why Thor is so powerful to begin with.

#44 Posted by EternalGrandMaster (255 posts) - - Show Bio

@isaac_clarke said:

I could think of a few things. Mostly what keeps coming to mind is her difficulty keeping Providence in the air and the fact Thor can hit really really hard. I'd say the jobbing goes both ways since going into Thor's noggin shouldn't be lethal to a telepath and I'm actually astonished he noticed her attempts to do so. That might be Thor's best telepathic defense showing in a long time.

I always took it as Thor blocking a psi-blast (telepathic bolt). He didn't deflect it, he absorbed it and amplified it by 10 and shot it back at her.

Well thing is Rachel is an Omega level mutant however ppl like Xavier and Cable are better and more skilled via Telepath & Telekinetic than her. She still held it in the air for lil while after Surfer defeated Cable....Thor by all means is a God I don't think low level telepaths should or would be able to alter his mind. Characters have noticed ppl picking their brains before not surprised Thor could tell but he shouldn't have a defense for this.

Well yea that's what happened. In text not verbatim It was Rachel trying to enter his mind via psi-bolt...That was bad writing cause he can't counter something like that, but it was written so that he did.And she was Phoenix meh =/.

@Outside_85: Meh, World Breaker Foots steps can dislodge continents, Thor no dislodge continents.lol...Rachel's psionic powers are comparable to Gladiator the more confident she is the better results she'll display.

@isaac_clarke: I say it's bad writing cause Thor shouldn't be able to absorb psinoic power

#45 Posted by Iamlovewithin500 (1039 posts) - - Show Bio
@EternalGrandMaster:

   I say it's bad writing cause Thor shouldn't be able to absorb psinoic power

Exactly
#46 Edited by jeanroygrant (20442 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@jeanroygrant said:

@CitizenBane said:

They fought in WatX #12, Rachel made a TK hammer and knocked Thor on his ass with it; then Namor started fighting him.

Do ya happen to have the scan please?

@Lord Shiva said:

she took down Galdiator

With the Phoenix Echo.

That fight with Gladiator hasn't even happened yet, and thanks

#47 Posted by Enyalios (152 posts) - - Show Bio
@EternalGrandMaster: Mjolnir abosrbs energy. There has been no known energy form that the hammer has not been able to absorb yet. Magneto routinely blocks psionic and telepathic attacks with his shields and he has no psionic power whatsoever, his is the control over the electromagnetic spectrum, and his helmet is capable of stopping telepathy via circuitry. Mjolnir, arguably the most powerful artifact in the Marvel Universe, being able to do the same should come as no surprise.

I do find it funny that people think Thor absobing psionic energy or resisting telepathy is a case is bad writing or PIS but little Rachel swinging a psionically constructed hammer with her own hands and knocking Thor down is quite reasonable considering, while Rachel has been shown to be able to knock powerful beings down with her blasts, she has never shown the ability to augment her own physicaly strength with her powers, which in essence is what that image is showing.

#48 Posted by GhostRider29 (2872 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor would win. Pretty hard fight, but he'd do it.

#49 Posted by Enyalios (152 posts) - - Show Bio
@LordOfAllHumans: To say that Jean with the Phoenix Force is more powerful than Gaea is absurd. The Phoenix Force itself has only ever been talked about in conjecture, it in and of itself has very few feats to its name, and none of Jean's feats while empowered by the Phoenix has shown her to be as powerful as Gaea. In fact, I'm having a hard time thinking of a feat of Phoenix-Jean that puts her on par with Odin.
#50 Posted by Lord Shiva (890 posts) - - Show Bio

@Enyalios, I'm guessing you missed the whole Jean holding the atoms of the Marvel Universe in hands.