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#51 Posted by BigCimmerian (8108 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian: Thor was bloodlusted, and his feats in that series are totally unmatched with his feats anywhere else

He's bloodlusted in this battle too. He stalemated Surfer in their most recent fight in Mighty Thor series and he had morals on.

#52 Posted by SHARKBEARAGATOR (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian: Surfer had his moral on to. Thor and Surfer always stalemate in their battles unless you take non-canon what ifs and context into the mix. While it isn't outright said based off of previous showings Thor was either amped or under qsuedo warrior madness.

#53 Edited by BigCimmerian (8108 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian: Surfer had his moral on to. Thor and Surfer always stalemate in their battles unless you take non-canon what ifs and context into the mix. While it isn't outright said based off of previous showings Thor was either amped or under qsuedo warrior madness.

In blood and thunder he wasn't amped until he got power gem, also he wasn't in warrior madness, Odin said later that it was just normal madness and managed to cure him, while warrior madness cannot be cured.

#54 Posted by Lvenger (19350 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian: I bet he needs water though doesn't he? And Aquaman's water hand takes away the moisture in anything it targets. Meaning that Thor will be drier than the Sahara Desert if Aquaman chooses to pull that move out on him. Red Tornado has managed to solo the entire JLA morals off so he is a big player here. And Guy can keep Thor at bay too. Thor was in Warrior's Madness so that amped his stats tenfold or a thousandfold as you well know it does. There was a bit of poor writing too in making Thor beat everyone so easily based on his consistency of showings. BRB is Thor's equal so should have given Thor a good fight. Adam is also very powerful and Surfer is definitely above Thor and should take a majority of wins. Don't believe me? Look at this

Here's Surfer owning the Cancerverse Thor and Iron Man easily. "But Cancerverse Thor isn't anywhere near regular Thor." Wrong again just to pre guess your counter. I'll have to cite one of tparks' posts in a CAV he's doing about Groot and Rocket Racoon vs Hulk and Spider-Man (apologies about tagging you in this long post but I need to cite your excellent point)

@tparks said:

How is the Cancerverse almost the same as the 616 Universe?The Marvel heroes in that universe were evil and didn't have Death.How did they compare to the 616 besides the No Death part?

"The Cancerverse was on a parallel universe with 616, up until the point that Mar-Vell died. Mar-Vell defeated death in the Cancerverse, and this is where the universe took an alternate path. The Cancerverse characters have the same abilities and powers as the 616 counterparts, but they are harder to be put down permanently because Death does not exist for them."

So there we are. The Cancerverse versions of these characters have the same abilities and powers as their 616 versions but they're harder to kill because death doesn't exist for them. And yet Thor and Iron Man were being shrugged off by Silver Surfer like they weren't much trouble. He's even talking about the definition of easy to Richard Rider who was struggling with cancerverse Thor and the Revengers. Thus I think it's clear that Silver Surfer has a plethora of ways of putting Thor down in a fight that we don't need to go into. As such, that fight you cited is full of flawed writing which undermines your case dramatically.

Finally for every supposed TP resistance feat Thor has, he's chumped by Rachel Grey, Red Skull with Xavier's telepathic abilities, Moondragon for a long period of time and more. Just give it a rest will you? Thor's been chumped by Earth bound telepaths easily and Aquaman can do this if he wants like he did with a White Martian, also not of Earth

So again, I implore you to know more about these characters, what they can do and Thor's own limitations before making faulty posts on Thor battles.

#55 Posted by OreoAssassin (4795 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: nice argument lol damn you slapped everyone's argument in the face

#56 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:
@bigcimmerian said:

Thor wins in effortless curbstomp.

Why do you say things like this? Why, seriously? Do you know anything about the B team he's facing? Aquaman's water hand can dispel magic and dehydrate people so if Aquaman wants to, he can just cut Thor off from oxygen and hey presto, Thor's not going to be winning the fight. Or he could TP him out cold. Red Tornado has proven to keep the League at bay with his unleashed wind elemental powers and Guy can keep Thor at bay too. Can you please have a familiarity with the characters before making biased comments like this? I prefer Thor to all these guys but he doesn't beat the team if they use the right tactics.

Agreed. Starting to see a trend here.

#57 Posted by pooty (11033 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: @sharkbearagator: Thor was not amped until he fought Thanos. And he was never in WM. Thor says he holds back. In blood and thunder he was crazy and not holding back. SS,adam warlock and BRB were holding back. That is why he was able to defeat them so easily.

#58 Posted by Fallschirmjager (16818 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Water Hand doesn't cast magic, it dispels magic - among various other abilities. Its quite powerful and very much underrated.

#59 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Water Hand doesn't cast magic, it dispels magic - among various other abilities. Its quite powerful and very much underrated.

nice. i didnt know that. so now we have the water hand that dispels magic, AND hawkmans mace that disrupts magic. hmm, interesting. I might have to change my vote to the Team.

#60 Posted by BigCimmerian (8108 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: In that scan Aquaman says he can locate his basal ganglia the part he inherited from marine ancestors, but Thor isn't marine in origin lol. Or Aquaman can do that to everyone?

#61 Posted by DarkRaiden (6968 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Thor's also resisted Moondragon with the Mindgem, he's straight up slapped Phoenix's telepathy back at her, resisted Phoenix boosted Emma Frost, resisted Glory, etc. He has a many mental resistance feats as fails. You can't just claim his failures as the only ones that matter.

Also, you have to prove that Thor has a marine ancestor. We have absolutely 0 idea if he does, given he's asgardian, and dispelling magic matters not unless he can dispel skyfather magic from Odin. If he can, show it or be quiet about it. And it's already been explained that he can hit harder than Supes w/o it and will still oneshot the other team.

Red Tornado solo'd the leauge? Good for him. How did he do it? Wind? You mean the thing Thor has nearly complete control of? Yeah, Storm can't do it to Thor, neither can Red Tornado. You're just making an argument for Thor solo'ing the Justice League really. And Thor probably doesn't need much water considering he fights in the middle of suns and whatnot, which should evaporate any water in his body.

You need to stop downplaying Thor because you want the B team to win. They really can't and it's been explained already why. His strength, durability, abilities with Mjolnir, and he's bloodlusted. So how he usually throws his hammer, now it's being thrown FTL to kill everyone immediately as he follows up with his lightning+ speed and cracks everyone's skull or even just vaporizes them with his 20+ planet strength.

#62 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: In that scan Aquaman says he can locate his basal ganglia the part he inherited from marine ancestors, but Thor isn't marine in origin lol. Or Aquaman can do that to everyone?

LMAO. Someone didnt pay attention in biology class.

#63 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

wasnt thor a regular human until he got the hammer and magic? doesnt he have a human name too? i could have sworn ive read that here on the vine

#64 Posted by DarkRaiden (6968 posts) - - Show Bio

wasnt thor a regular human until he got the hammer and magic? doesnt he have a human name too? i could have sworn ive read that here on the vine

No that's Ultimate Thor. Thor's Asgardian and has always been 100% god, half asgardian, half elder god.

#65 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

@foreverevil said:

wasnt thor a regular human until he got the hammer and magic? doesnt he have a human name too? i could have sworn ive read that here on the vine

No that's Ultimate Thor. Thor's Asgardian and has always been 100% god, half asgardian, half elder god.

hmm ok cool. thanks for the info. looks like he might not be able to use that against thor afterall. im still now leaning towards changing my vote to the team due to the water hand and mace combined with everything else

#66 Posted by Lvenger (19350 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian: Neither was the White Martian yet Aquaman knocked him out just fine. In any case, assuming Thor isn't affected by the basal ganglia trick, he's still dehydrated by Aquaman's water hand. So that's still a reason for Aquaman being a big player.

@pooty What proof is there of that? If there is proof, then it's still bad writing. Thor being in Warrior's Madness or not doesn't change the PIS nature of the fight.

@darkraiden Pahaha lol that's hilarious. I don't want Thor to lose to these guys. I don't let preference of my 4th favourite superhero, which is Thor, affect my judgement on who wins. I let the facts, arguments, feats speak for themselves which is more than I can say for you in that post accusing me of bias. When did he snap a Phoenix avatar's TP right back at her? I fail to see as to how you can pull this out of thin air. And really, you still think Thor has any form of decent combat speed? Do you want me to bring up all the street levellers who've run rings around him? Or shall I refer you to this link where the Vine's best debaters demonstrate why Thor's combat speed is barely on street level. Furthermore, you're massively overplaying Thor in him being able to one shot the entire team. Which he won't for the record. Steel has tanked shots from Doomsday who's>Thor I can assure you, Aquaman's faced foes far more powerful than him and Guy's ring can still protect him from a lot of Thor's attacks. So yeah stop overplaying Thor to suit your fallacious argument. Doesn't do you much credit.

#67 Posted by Cable_Extreme (9070 posts) - - Show Bio

@cable_extreme: Water Hand doesn't cast magic, it dispels magic - among various other abilities. Its quite powerful and very much underrated.

More powerful than Mjolnir? I am doubtful.

Online
#68 Posted by DarkRaiden (6968 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@bigcimmerian: Neither was the White Martian yet Aquaman knocked him out just fine. In any case, assuming Thor isn't affected by the basal ganglia trick, he's still dehydrated by Aquaman's water hand. So that's still a reason for Aquaman being a big player.

@pooty What proof is there of that? If there is proof, then it's still bad writing. Thor being in Warrior's Madness or not doesn't change the PIS nature of the fight.

@darkraiden Pahaha lol that's hilarious. I don't want Thor to lose to these guys. I don't let preference of my 4th favourite superhero, which is Thor, affect my judgement on who wins. I let the facts, arguments, feats speak for themselves which is more than I can say for you in that post accusing me of bias. When did he snap a Phoenix avatar's TP right back at her? I fail to see as to how you can pull this out of thin air. And really, you still think Thor has any form of decent combat speed? Do you want me to bring up all the street levellers who've run rings around him? Or shall I refer you to this link where the Vine's best debaters demonstrate why Thor's combat speed is barely on street level. Furthermore, you're massively overplaying Thor in him being able to one shot the entire team. Which he won't for the record. Steel has tanked shots from Doomsday who's>Thor I can assure you, Aquaman's faced foes far more powerful than him and Guy's ring can still protect him from a lot of Thor's attacks. So yeah stop overplaying Thor to suit your fallacious argument. Doesn't do you much credit.

Really? When did Doomsday lift 20 planets? I'll wait. Doomsday's not even close to Thor's strength, and that's fact. Their feats aren't even comparable. And I could care less what "the Vine's best debaters" said about his speed. He hits people with nanosecond reaction times, he hits Gladiator, Sentry, Loki (who has lightspeed reaction feats) and has outspeeded Hermes or at least caught him. Adam Warlock said he was as fast as lightning that he commands and he was too fast for Hela. He's known to holdback, and certainly does against street levelers. Again, downplaying.

Aquaman doesn't face foes stronger than Thor on average and has never defeated anyone stronger than him. Guy's ring can't block Thor's strength and certainly not energy absorption Mjolnir. He uses it on Surfer, no reason he won't use it on Guy. And worse, he's bloodlusted, so he's going all out immediately.

When has he slapped TP back at Phoenix?

Yeah. Thor wins.

#69 Posted by Lvenger (19350 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: When did Thor legitimately lift 20 planets? I'll wait for an outlandish claim to have evidence behind it. Doomsday whomps Superman, Orion, Wonder Woman and the entire JLA around like they're nothing and most of the JLA can hand it to Thor easily due to their speed edge. Another fact for you. And as for your speed comments, he only hits characters like that when they're not using their speed. Gladiator, Sentry, Loki and other speedsters don't use that kind of speed when fighting Thor otherwise he'd never get a block on them. You should care more about what the Vine's best debaters say as their knowledge puts your arguments down a peg if you'd care to look at them and get out of your one track mindset about Thor's speed. He can barely tag street levellers, let alone upper tier speedsters if you look at the evidence properly. For every one off scan of Thor being fast, there's half a dozen more scans where he is shown up in the speed department. So, yeah you can think Thor's fast if you want but it doesn't change that you're mistaken.

#70 Posted by Saren (25618 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor has never lifted 20 planets. There was an annual way back when where one of Umar's minions hit him with an energy field that Thor claimed was equivalent to the weight of "a score of planets" (Umar or the Servitor themselves never claimed anything of the sort);and even if you want to assume hyperbole is fact, Thor didn't throw off that weight. He got Mjolnir to blast the Servitor and disrupt the field so that he could break free.

Anyone who has actually read the issue in question and not just come across the scan on a respect thread would know that in the same issue, Thor was KO'd and nearly killed after a wooden mast fell on his head. It is probably not the most consistent source to base an argument on.

Moderator
#71 Posted by Saren (25618 posts) - - Show Bio

But then again, if you can argue with a straight face that Doom would no-sell the telepathy of the Pre-Retcon Beyonder, I suppose you can argue about anything.

Moderator
#72 Edited by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@bigcimmerian: Neither was the White Martian yet Aquaman knocked him out just fine. In any case, assuming Thor isn't affected by the basal ganglia trick, he's still dehydrated by Aquaman's water hand. So that's still a reason for Aquaman being a big player.

@pooty What proof is there of that? If there is proof, then it's still bad writing. Thor being in Warrior's Madness or not doesn't change the PIS nature of the fight.

@darkraiden Pahaha lol that's hilarious. I don't want Thor to lose to these guys. I don't let preference of my 4th favourite superhero, which is Thor, affect my judgement on who wins. I let the facts, arguments, feats speak for themselves which is more than I can say for you in that post accusing me of bias. When did he snap a Phoenix avatar's TP right back at her? I fail to see as to how you can pull this out of thin air. And really, you still think Thor has any form of decent combat speed? Do you want me to bring up all the street levellers who've run rings around him? Or shall I refer you to this link where the Vine's best debaters demonstrate why Thor's combat speed is barely on street level. Furthermore, you're massively overplaying Thor in him being able to one shot the entire team. Which he won't for the record. Steel has tanked shots from Doomsday who's>Thor I can assure you, Aquaman's faced foes far more powerful than him and Guy's ring can still protect him from a lot of Thor's attacks. So yeah stop overplaying Thor to suit your fallacious argument. Doesn't do you much credit.

Really? When did Doomsday lift 20 planets? I'll wait. Doomsday's not even close to Thor's strength, and that's fact. Their feats aren't even comparable. And I could care less what "the Vine's best debaters" said about his speed. He hits people with nanosecond reaction times, he hits Gladiator, Sentry, Loki (who has lightspeed reaction feats) and has outspeeded Hermes or at least caught him. Adam Warlock said he was as fast as lightning that he commands and he was too fast for Hela. He's known to holdback, and certainly does against street levelers. Again, downplaying.

Aquaman doesn't face foes stronger than Thor on average and has never defeated anyone stronger than him. Guy's ring can't block Thor's strength and certainly not energy absorption Mjolnir. He uses it on Surfer, no reason he won't use it on Guy. And worse, he's bloodlusted, so he's going all out immediately.

When has he slapped TP back at Phoenix?

Yeah. Thor wins.

Thor has never lifted 20 planets. There was an annual way back when where one of Umar's minions hit him with an energy field that Thor claimed was equivalent to the weight of "a score of planets" (Umar or the Servitor themselves never claimed anything of the sort);and even if you want to assume hyperbole is fact, Thor didn't throw off that weight. He got Mjolnir to blast the Servitor and disrupt the field so that he could break free.

Anyone who has actually read the issue in question and not just come across the scan on a respect thread would know that in the same issue, Thor was KO'd and nearly killed after a wooden mast fell on his head. It is probably not the most consistent source to base an argument on.

Damn, I was lied to again? Im not liking this. Can I not trust ANYONE on this site to tell me the truth? Good job, mod

#73 Posted by DarkRaiden (6968 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@darkraiden: When did Thor legitimately lift 20 planets? I'll wait for an outlandish claim to have evidence behind it. Doomsday whomps Superman, Orion, Wonder Woman and the entire JLA around like they're nothing and most of the JLA can hand it to Thor easily due to their speed edge. Another fact for you. And as for your speed comments, he only hits characters like that when they're not using their speed. Gladiator, Sentry, Loki and other speedsters don't use that kind of speed when fighting Thor otherwise he'd never get a block on them. You should care more about what the Vine's best debaters say as their knowledge puts your arguments down a peg if you'd care to look at them and get out of your one track mindset about Thor's speed. He can barely tag street levellers, let alone upper tier speedsters if you look at the evidence properly. For every one off scan of Thor being fast, there's half a dozen more scans where he is shown up in the speed department. So, yeah you can think Thor's fast if you want but it doesn't change that you're mistaken.

Score of planets: and my bad, he just took the weight of 20 planets, withstood it if you will

Though the neutron star thing, moving a planet out of orbit by just arm wrestling, closing dimensional holes by punching, and his speed:

The fact that it's been stated that Thor holds back constantly, mixed with the fact that he constantly tags speedsters like Surfer, Loki, Gladiator, and Sentry (though apparently they're just never using their speed.....yeah right), and that he catches Hermes who was explicitly using his speed, and that he's stated to fast for Hela and as fast as lightning by Adam Warlock, wouldn't that suggest that when he's being outspeeded by street levelers....that he's clearly holding back in those moments? I mean....obviously. Use logic here. And No matter what other debaters say (and I've seen those ridiculous arguments that say that Thor said Wolverine was faster than him, when he never did), Thor has speed feats and would use them bloodlusted or when he needs them.

#74 Posted by Lvenger (19350 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor has never lifted 20 planets. There was an annual way back when where one of Umar's minions hit him with an energy field that Thor claimed was equivalent to the weight of "a score of planets" (Umar or the Servitor themselves never claimed anything of the sort);and even if you want to assume hyperbole is fact, Thor didn't throw off that weight. He got Mjolnir to blast the Servitor and disrupt the field so that he could break free.

Anyone who has actually read the issue in question and not just come across the scan on a respect thread would know that in the same issue, Thor was KO'd and nearly killed after a wooden mast fell on his head. It is probably not the most consistent source to base an argument on.

Ah so it was the score of planets issue he was referring to? I didn't know that feat and the ridiculous mast PIS were in the same issue.

#75 Edited by Lvenger (19350 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: It's not ridiculous to point out that Thor has poor combat speed showings. Deny it all you want but it doesn't make it any less true. No solid proof of high end combat speed can be shown whereas plenty of low combat speed showings are plentiful. It's folly to advance this view based on a limited and skewed perception of Thor's speed I'm afraid. So there's much more proof that Thor is slower than Spider-Man and Wolverine than proof he isn't.

#76 Posted by DarkRaiden (6968 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@darkraiden: It's not ridiculous to point out that Thor has poor combat speed showings. Deny it all you want but it doesn't make it any less true. No solid proof of high end combat speed can be shown whereas plenty of low combat speed showings are plentiful. It's folly to advance this view based on a limited and skewed perception of Thor's speed I'm afraid. So there's much more proof that Thor is slower than Spider-Man and Wolverine than proof he isn't.

Actually more implies he's faster. The fact that he fights cosmics and flies FTL and fights others who can move FTL, it can be assumed that he can move much faster than then if he wants.

#77 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@darkraiden: It's not ridiculous to point out that Thor has poor combat speed showings. Deny it all you want but it doesn't make it any less true. No solid proof of high end combat speed can be shown whereas plenty of low combat speed showings are plentiful. It's folly to advance this view based on a limited and skewed perception of Thor's speed I'm afraid. So there's much more proof that Thor is slower than Spider-Man and Wolverine than proof he isn't.

Actually more implies he's faster. The fact that he fights cosmics and flies FTL and fights others who can move FTL, it can be assumed that he can move much faster than then if he wants.

i wonder what thors actual fighting speed is because he couldnt keep up with wolverine and admitted he was too fast for him. even captain america has said thor is slow in combat speed. sooo idk. inconsistencies suck

#78 Posted by Lvenger (19350 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden: Nope afraid not. See you're confusing travel speed and combat speed as being linked. They aren't linked at all. Yes Thor can fly at FTL speeds but that's only with Mjolnir and he only uses that speed to get from A to B. In combat, he turns into a sluggish brawler who does not use speed in the slightest. Big difference in movement speed and fighting speed and Thor does not have the speed to keep up with even fast street levellers like Spider-Man. Mongoose couldn't hit Spider-Man but he danced all over Thor like he was nothing. Not to mention that Captain America, someone who knows Thor well, commented on how Eric Masterson with Thor's powers shared his slow speed and lack of reactions.

#79 Posted by DarkRaiden (6968 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden said:
@lvenger said:

@darkraiden: It's not ridiculous to point out that Thor has poor combat speed showings. Deny it all you want but it doesn't make it any less true. No solid proof of high end combat speed can be shown whereas plenty of low combat speed showings are plentiful. It's folly to advance this view based on a limited and skewed perception of Thor's speed I'm afraid. So there's much more proof that Thor is slower than Spider-Man and Wolverine than proof he isn't.

Actually more implies he's faster. The fact that he fights cosmics and flies FTL and fights others who can move FTL, it can be assumed that he can move much faster than then if he wants.

i wonder what thors actual fighting speed is because he couldnt keep up with wolverine and admitted he was too fast for him. even captain america has said thor is slow in combat speed. sooo idk. inconsistencies suck

He actually never admitted Wolverine was faster than him. He said wolverine was faster than he thought he was. The hyphen at the end of the sentence makes it clear.

#80 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

@foreverevil said:
@darkraiden said:
@lvenger said:

@darkraiden: It's not ridiculous to point out that Thor has poor combat speed showings. Deny it all you want but it doesn't make it any less true. No solid proof of high end combat speed can be shown whereas plenty of low combat speed showings are plentiful. It's folly to advance this view based on a limited and skewed perception of Thor's speed I'm afraid. So there's much more proof that Thor is slower than Spider-Man and Wolverine than proof he isn't.

Actually more implies he's faster. The fact that he fights cosmics and flies FTL and fights others who can move FTL, it can be assumed that he can move much faster than then if he wants.

i wonder what thors actual fighting speed is because he couldnt keep up with wolverine and admitted he was too fast for him. even captain america has said thor is slow in combat speed. sooo idk. inconsistencies suck

He actually never admitted Wolverine was faster than him. He said wolverine was faster than he thought he was. The hyphen at the end of the sentence makes it clear.

can you show the scan

#81 Posted by pooty (11033 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger: Odin says that Thor's madness was caused by Odin always messing with Thor's mind. and the fight was not PIS because Thor was fighting at 100% while the others were holding back. They knew thor was sick and wanted to help him. Makes perfect sense that they wouldn't go all out on Thor.

#82 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (3383 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian: In that scan Aquaman says he can locate his basal ganglia the part he inherited from marine ancestors, but Thor isn't marine in origin lol. Or Aquaman can do that to everyone?

Anyone who can't overcome his telepathic invasion. But to put that scan in its proper context, you have to remember that Zum was mocking Aquaman. Literally telling the (politically) most powerful man on Earth that he couldn't do anything to stop him and furthermore dared him to try. Well, Aquaman (who could've easily just engaged Zum in psychic battle) decided to get creative and walk him through his own downfall. That's what that was about. Aquaman has mind zapped the sh*t out of plenty of people whose ancestry doesn't trace back to aquatic creatures. Although @beatboks1 or @lion_heart22 could probably tell you better than I could.

@darkraiden: Also, you have to prove that Thor has a marine ancestor. We have absolutely 0 idea if he does, given he's asgardian, and dispelling magic matters not unless he can dispel skyfather magic from Odin. If he can, show it or be quiet about it. And it's already been explained that he can hit harder than Supes w/o it and will still oneshot the other team.

See above for more on your first point. And I'm not entirely sure this is the place for a "Who's stronger, Thor or Superman" debate. There's at least 15 dozen of those duplicate threads just floating around the 'Vine if I'm not mistaken.

@lvenger: Unless I missed my guess, there's nothing in the OP stopping Steel (while storms are brewing, TP attacks are raging, plasma blasts are going off, and constructs are materializing) from throwing his Kinetic_Hammer to Charleston, SC and forcing it to double back at high Mach speeds targeting the bridge of Thor's nose. That kind of impact has got to get at least a KO. IMO.

#83 Posted by pooty (11033 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet: I'm not sure how powerful aquaman telepathy is but Moondragon WITH the Mind gem couldn't even slow down a blood lusted Thor. Just a FYI

#84 Posted by BigCimmerian (8108 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian said:

@lvenger: In that scan Aquaman says he can locate his basal ganglia the part he inherited from marine ancestors, but Thor isn't marine in origin lol. Or Aquaman can do that to everyone?

LMAO. Someone didnt pay attention in biology class.

What?

#85 Edited by BigCimmerian (8108 posts) - - Show Bio

@lvenger said:

@bigcimmerian: Neither was the White Martian yet Aquaman knocked him out just fine. In any case, assuming Thor isn't affected by the basal ganglia trick, he's still dehydrated by Aquaman's water hand. So that's still a reason for Aquaman being a big player.

@pooty What proof is there of that? If there is proof, then it's still bad writing. Thor being in Warrior's Madness or not doesn't change the PIS nature of the fight.

@darkraiden Pahaha lol that's hilarious. I don't want Thor to lose to these guys. I don't let preference of my 4th favourite superhero, which is Thor, affect my judgement on who wins. I let the facts, arguments, feats speak for themselves which is more than I can say for you in that post accusing me of bias. When did he snap a Phoenix avatar's TP right back at her? I fail to see as to how you can pull this out of thin air. And really, you still think Thor has any form of decent combat speed? Do you want me to bring up all the street levellers who've run rings around him? Or shall I refer you to this link where the Vine's best debaters demonstrate why Thor's combat speed is barely on street level. Furthermore, you're massively overplaying Thor in him being able to one shot the entire team. Which he won't for the record. Steel has tanked shots from Doomsday who's>Thor I can assure you, Aquaman's faced foes far more powerful than him and Guy's ring can still protect him from a lot of Thor's attacks. So yeah stop overplaying Thor to suit your fallacious argument. Doesn't do you much credit.

Aquaman said White Martian inherited that from his marine ancestors, I believe Aquaman more than I believe you lol.

#86 Posted by Saren (25618 posts) - - Show Bio

He actually never admitted Wolverine was faster than him. He said wolverine was faster than he thought he was. The hyphen at the end of the sentence makes it clear.

LOL. Really? Thor says "Odin's blood, he is faster than I---" and you assume the hyphen means "he is faster than I thought he was" when it is far more likely that particular train of thought was just interrupted midway by Thor's reaction to Wolverine slashing him?

Are we really just making up stuff and pretending it's true on these threads now?

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#87 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (24147 posts) - - Show Bio

The team takes this.

#88 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (3383 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: I'm not sure how powerful aquaman telepathy is but Moondragon WITH the Mind gem couldn't even slow down a blood lusted Thor. Just a FYI

Correct. However, 15 years before she had access to the Gem, the same Moondragon (who if we use real life as a basic example, should have been a much stronger telepath by the time she got the gem than she was earlier) was able to telepathically force Thor to be her lover just because she wanted to get her rocks off and he was the "most prime specimen available" on that alien planet at the time. So the whole "resist the Mind Gem" feat, while it DID happen, was an major oversight by whoever wrote that story. But to compare mental talents/endurance to physical talents/endurance, I'm a lot stronger physically now than when I first started working out back in High School. Moondragon 30 years ago (pre- Mind Gem) would've had to be stronger in her own talents independent of the Mind Gem amp that happened 15-20 years ago. Bad writing. But I don't hold you responsible for it though.

We both have seen that wacko scan with our own two eyes, so I don't fault you for bringing it up.

#89 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden said:

He actually never admitted Wolverine was faster than him. He said wolverine was faster than he thought he was. The hyphen at the end of the sentence makes it clear.

LOL. Really? Thor says "Odin's blood, he is faster than I---" and you assume the hyphen means "he is faster than I thought he was" when it is far more likely that particular train of thought was just interrupted midway by Thor's reaction to Wolverine slashing him?

Are we really just making up stuff and pretending it's true on these threads now?

YES! lol thats why i think theyre just trolling. Help me make them quit. make me a mod or something!!!! lol

#90 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (3383 posts) - - Show Bio

@bigcimmerian: Aquaman said White Martian inherited that from his marine ancestors, I believe Aquaman more than I believe you lol.

Both you and Aquaman are correct. Upon a telepathic scan of Zum's brain, he saw the basal ganglia. He isolated it, zapped the sh*t out of him, and left him seizing. The thing is, well two things:

  1. It's easier for Aquaman to telepathically communicate with sea life. But with minimal to strenuous effort, he can mind rape anyone who isn't strong enough to hold him back. It's like this: I can bench my body weight plus. It takes sweat down my brow and all my concentration, but I can do it for reps if I'm motivated. But I can lift and even toss into the air my 1 year old nephew like it's nothing, for as long as I want. Lifting him is way easier than a barbell loaded up with 45's, but I can do both if I really want to. Hope that helped.
  2. Zum had managed to REALLY piss Arthur off. You don't stand in Aquaman's face, talk sh*t, and expect to get off unscathed. He told Zum (after he gave him epilepsy) that I can do that to you "just for starters", meaning he had way nastier stuff in mind to do to him. A WHITE MARTIAN. Thor's TP resistance has been hit or miss over the decades, but Zum comes from an entire species of telepaths who are probably taught at the same age human children are taught to "look both ways before crossing the street" how to defend them selves against telepathic invasion(s). And he was overpowered. It could happen again here. Especially with all of the distractions Thor would also have to contend with.
#91 Edited by DarkRaiden (6968 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden said:

He actually never admitted Wolverine was faster than him. He said wolverine was faster than he thought he was. The hyphen at the end of the sentence makes it clear.

LOL. Really? Thor says "Odin's blood, he is faster than I---" and you assume the hyphen means "he is faster than I thought he was" when it is far more likely that particular train of thought was just interrupted midway by Thor's reaction to Wolverine slashing him?

Are we really just making up stuff and pretending it's true on these threads now?

Why would he say he's faster than I, rather than he's faster than me? It's more likely that he meant he's faster than I thought he was considering just before that he comments on Wolverine dodging hits he didn't expect him to. Context is everything.

#92 Posted by Wardemon32 (4149 posts) - - Show Bio

@darkraiden:

Why would he say he's faster than I, rather than he's faster than me? It's more likely that he meant he's faster than I thought he was considering just before that he comments on Wolverine dodging hits he didn't expect him to. Context is everything.

I see what you are trying to say now. But you have to remember that he doesn't talk like the "modern" person. He talk like he's in Romeo and Juliet.

I think its that Wolverine was dodging the hits(Of course when you're missing you'll try even more) and then he said he is faster than him. He basically talks like he's in the 1500s or so

#93 Posted by Saren (25618 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

@darkraiden said:

He actually never admitted Wolverine was faster than him. He said wolverine was faster than he thought he was. The hyphen at the end of the sentence makes it clear.

LOL. Really? Thor says "Odin's blood, he is faster than I---" and you assume the hyphen means "he is faster than I thought he was" when it is far more likely that particular train of thought was just interrupted midway by Thor's reaction to Wolverine slashing him?

Are we really just making up stuff and pretending it's true on these threads now?

Why would he say he's faster than I, rather than he's faster than me? It's more likely that he meant he's faster than I thought he was considering just before that he comments on Wolverine dodging hits he didn't expect him to. Context is everything.

Because historically, that is how Thor speaks? That is and always has been his syntax? Making up dialogue to fit an interpretation of events that you'd prefer even though it's not actually on the page or inferred is nice and all, but don't expect anyone else to actually buy it.

Context is everything, that's pretty good advice.

Moderator
#94 Posted by pooty (11033 posts) - - Show Bio

@heraldofganthet: It has been shown that people who are irrational and driven by emotion can withstand or repel mental attacks that would normally affect them. Because thor was bloodlusted and irrational that is why he withstood her mental assault. I think they said that when it happened but can't say for sure. But hulk and black adam have shown similar resistance when bloodlusted. IMO it makes sense due to consistency

#95 Posted by HeraldofGanthet (3383 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty:

I hear what you're saying and we agree up to a point. I think where that story went off the rails for me was the fact that Moondragon (who's no slouch in the TP/TK department) was further amplified by the repository of psionic power in the Marvel U. and Thor (Who's powers center around him being strong enough to lift and/or break things and summon storms of a magical nature. Nothing psionic at all) exhibited enough TP resistance to withstand all of that?! Okay. But that's got to be the on the short list of his highest high end feats though, if we're to count that as applicable here. Against Aquaman, he'd also be having his powers leeched away while under attack from all sides as well as telepathically.

It's a lot to deal with, IMO.

#96 Posted by pooty (11033 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty:

I hear what you're saying and we agree up to a point. I think where that story went off the rails for me was the fact that Moondragon (who's no slouch in the TP/TK department) was further amplified by the repository of psionic power in the Marvel U. and Thor (Who's powers center around him being strong enough to lift and/or break things and summon storms of a magical nature. Nothing psionic at all) exhibited enough TP resistance to withstand all of that?! Okay. But that's got to be the on the short list of his highest high end feats though, if we're to count that as applicable here. Against Aquaman, he'd also be having his powers leeched away while under attack from all sides as well as telepathically.

It's a lot to deal with, IMO.

I also see what you are saying. I really do. But when Thor resisted MD he was also fighting SS, Adam Warlock and BRB and that didn't make Thor any more susceptible to physic attack. Admittedly I don't know much about the DC team but it seems like a blood lusted Thor can dispatch most of them with a couple hits. But as said, my knowledge on them is limited.

#97 Posted by patrat18 (9582 posts) - - Show Bio

JLA.

#98 Posted by THEOCITYLEGEND (1201 posts) - - Show Bio

JL

#99 Edited by HeraldofGanthet (3383 posts) - - Show Bio

@pooty: Admittedly I don't know much about the DC team but it seems like a blood lusted Thor can dispatch most of them with a couple hits. But as said, my knowledge on them is limited.

This is both fair and rational. I'll respond in kind as you've raised the bar on civility in this thread.

Guy Gardner= GL. He's also headstrong, so he lacks the normal restraint that the other Earth-based GL's have. Could make him the most tenacious fighter on the DC team.

Red Tornado: A Wind Elemental housed inside an android body that is capable of near immediate self repair due to a creation of Steel's called Psudocytes (artificial White Blood Cells that imbue their host with a healing factor in high doses, instantaneous healing of a specific injury in small doses [see: Vox for more details on the latter example]). Both he and Thor have planet-wide mystical weather control powers. He also has super strength, but in the Class 50-60 range.

Aquaman : See Waterbearer Hand for more details on that weapon and it's capabilities.

Hawkman: Possesses both blunt force (his Mace) as well as razor sharp weapons made out of Nth_Metal. Also has tremendous resistance to blunt force trauma and an excellent healing factor in addition to nearly 4500 years of h2h and weapons training.

Steel: Easily the smartest guy here. Was Guy Gardner's roommate during his undergraduate studies at the University of Michigan. His armor(s) have withstood the assaults of various "Super-Heavyweights" in close h2h combat, many of whom were of the Kryptonian variety. His most well known weapon outside of his suit of armor is his Kinetic_Hammer. This extra nasty is a devastating weapon that would not go unused against a threat as grave as a bloodlusted Thor. If he has any prep time at all he may even bring his "Annihilator" to the battleground. That is his Sniper Rifle that fires Anti-Matter bullets, but I don't remember if prep was off the table, so that option might not be open to him. That hammer could KO Thor at the very least IMO, which is all that's necessary for his team to win. Especially if RT is nullifying his weather bending efforts, Aquaman is blitzing him anti-magically and/or telepathically, Guy's blasting and/or constructing away at him, and Hawkman is slashing away at him with even more anti-magical Nth Metal weapons, and the team has a very good shot at taking this considering the fact that all of these men have served along side one another on the JLA at some point.

So you'd have to take the teamwork dynamic into account as well. But you've made some great points, I simply hope you think the same of my perspective!;)

#100 Posted by ForeverEvil (4788 posts) - - Show Bio

LMAO. why would thor say he is faster than i, instead of he is faster than me? CAUSE THATS HOW THOR TALKS.

Im soo tempted to go retro and use the word "DUH!!!" lol