@majestic99 said:
What Thor destroyed was a planet.
No he did not, it was a lifeless rocks where BRB was, and to be a planet it has to revolve around a star can you show me a star anywhere in the picture? coz i have read the issue in question and i dont remember it either being named as a planet, nor does it size look anything like a planet, now was it revolving a star, so you tell me mate. :)
@czarny_samael666 said:
No, because Hulk was on his knees in LtB, Thor could finish the job (he said: "Yield, Hulk. The battle is over"), while Hulk wasn't able to do the same in Thor #385.
You can't say that just because Thor was hurt, Hulk won the battle. Just because someone in middle o battle laying on the ground doesn't mean anything, until in time he recovers You can put the final blow.
Thor could, Hulk couldn't.
Look at the context of the battle, its not like Hulk was actually KOed or unable to stand in the fight, why are you distorting what actually happened? Thor hits hulk 3 times and claims yeild the battle is over the better man has won, had hulk been completely unable to stand i would count that as a win for Thor thats not the case, hulk than refutes saying "No better, no stronger, Hulk is the strongest one there ever will be", also you want to argue agaist it, the writer herself said Hulk beat Thor because at that given moment Hulk was stronger. Am i saying Hulk: Let the battle being changes the score of Hulk vs Thor, no. What i am however saying is that issue is however cannon, although there are circumstances which makes this battle less effective my point was the story is cannon contrary to what you claimed against the other fellow
And how did Thor finish the job in LBT for that to be considered to be a win, also note that Thor hits hulk with his hammer not his hand. You want to prove strength feat he has to use his hand, his own powers than his hammer.
I dont see a Thor could or Hulk couldnt, apart from using his hammer Thor hasnt beaten hulk, and the one time Thor fought an actual hulk without his hammer he looked if far worse shape than Hulk, had black eyes etc while Hulk was fine. So you tell me how does any of these make him stronger than Hulk?
Oh, so You were talking about Avengers Assemble, not H:LtB? I know that it counts. Other thing that from what I know it happends after AvX,so I would like to wait for more info about it. Nonetheless, I don't see how it change anything, there wasn't a real battle between this two there.
And as You can see I doesn't have double standarts for Thor and Hulk, IMO H&S shouldn't count as much as H:LtB. If it does, it still doesn't change the real score because one is for Thor and one for Hulk.
No i was actually talking about Hulk: Let the battle begin, read what he said. A story is considered cannon unless it was been expressely said to be otherwise, there is absolutely no mention of the story being non cannon, not to mention we have the writer herself in the interview with newsrama the writer herself said i had the make the battle short and had to get the hulk to leave because she did not want to change the marvel history further.
What i have saying is since both Hulk: Let the battle being and Blood and Thunder are cannon they count, validity might be brought into question or labelled PIS but it still is cannon, both of them.
I see - no one can move hammer from the ground, so no one should be able to make Thor move it.
About that I can aslo say that for me Blue Marvel vs. Sentry is 1:1 (since Sentry was KOd in space) and BM vs. KH is also 1:1, since KH also had him on the ground
Defenders 10 ends in stalemate. ;) But this is something to discuss later, when we will have other things settled (objective feats, final score between them and fights with other enemies - I want to organise this, to come to some conclusiona, because in the beginning we couldn't make it at all. As I see we agree that it is 9:2 for Thor overall, with opened case about Heroes Reborn? )
Hard one, since for me it would rather be a Mindless Hulk. I've didn't read all Thor's appearances there. Not too mention, that this dimension still exists and it still has Thor and Hulk IIRC.
Well the way it was explained in Hulk Let the battle begin was the writer specifically wanted to exploit the loophole that since Thor = worth and Hulk = unworthy, Hulk or any other opponent could use the hammer as long as they are using thor's own hand. Had this been a one time thing i would have said ah! PIS but the same thing happened again. So yeah it doesnt make much sense but as far as marvel is concerned it can happen.
I do not understand what Blue Marvel , Sentry or King Hyperion has got anything whatsoever to do with this battle?
Stalemate with thor being in a worse shape than Hulk, that is why i am saying i have seen nothing to show Thor is stronger than hulk, had thor been stronger than hulk wouldnt you think Thor would have ended up in a better shape at the end of the battle?
I dont actually get the distinction from Hulk , savage hulk and mindless hulk. In the said battle Hulk was looking for Banner but was able to form rather complete sentence rather than just broken 3 syllable words. So put him at the state that you wish. But i do wanna point that before you try to explain what happened in Heroes Reborngod_spawnactually explained me last time that since it was a battle that did not take place in 616 universe (although it was 616 hulk and thor, since the last issue of the heroes reborn: the heroes return we see the entire avengers that appeared in the whole saga were teleported back to earth) is not considered cannon, but we agreed to disagree because i though it should count and he though it shouldnt.
Godhunter? Not Omega Flight? And no, I don't belive to Bill actually. I am not saying he can't, but I don't belive to gods in that area. For example Odin also isn't omnipotent.
Point is that we can't really say that in these battles Hulk's strength could raise, since a)they were much shorter (so we should bring other Hulk battles, that are longer than this one) and b)in other Hulk's fight (with other enemies) we could see that his strength goes up rapidly.
There is also other thing - I doubt that Thor would have to be in planetary level to be stronger than Hulk. I don't belive that WWHulk is planetary level acctually. Considering as a fact that Hulk's strength was boosted on Battlewrold, what Hulk even have to put against Thor lifting this island transformed by Graviton? Or leveling plateau in his contest with Hercules(I am still saying that it is planet level feat)? Or strength showed in Neutron Star accdient (I know it isn't planetary one)?
I see that we just strated to understand each other and talk about facts. ;P
Now we also can compare their strength on battles in which they used only strength:
Thor one-shotted Namor - Hulk never done that.
Thor one-shotted Abomination - Hulk was never able to repeat that.
Thor also fought with Bi-Beast and took him out fairly easily, but here he used Mjolnir. Yet, if I would have to make an opinion about this fights (2 in Thor 315-316), I would say that Thor is more durable and stronger than Hulk.
I can look for others, but I would like to know what Hulk can bring on the table too.
I have NOT read omega flight but while asked whether bill (and not thor) could bust a planet, Tom replied that the closest he has seen was Bill do so in Godhunther last issue where he busts a dying planet by putting a teleport rod and hitting it with sheer force. Even it looked like he wasnt sure if that should or should not count. Was it a clear planet busting feat on Omega Flight, do you have a scan (if not you can just explain to me what actually happened, coz if its clear i see no reason why it shouldnt count).
In which fight exactly has Hulk strength risenrapidly,could you show me a scan or explained a battle? I have never seen this.All i have seen is Hulk beating Abomination after a long fight because one tires while other grows stronger with anger, but then again Hulk has matched Abomination blow to blow right from the bat as well.
Thor does not have to be planetary level to be stronger than hulk but at least there has to be some hard and fast evidence for one to claim so because 14 fight show them equally match, the scan explicitly shows them equally matched and i do not agree any of that it is PIS.
Neutron Star isnt planetary level but if that is to be taken as a feat that would put thor above 100 trillion tons (assuming a normal neutron star, we have no clue how big the neutron star actually is and hence we cannot determine how heavy the pull would be), thats not the strength he is normally shown to be in. I mean if that is what Thor could do that he should have picked up Asgard with a pinkie.
Hulk lifting 150 billion tons of mountain, throwing castle dracula like a beach ball, lifting an entire island would totally match p to Thor lifting the island transformed by Graviton i would think. Leveling a plateau, hulk being able to destroy a rock twice the size of the earth should at the least compensate that despite him being propelled for that particular feat (else it would have been planet level) .
Also i do not think lifting feats shows who's stronger specially when u have battle being the said characters to determine it, else purely lifting feat wise Spiderman has matched (if not exceeded) black adam in that department, but if i now claim Spiderman is stronger than Black Adam no one would ever take me seriously :p
with his villains thats just ABC feats, no one has humiliated Terrax the way Sentry did, not even Silver Surfer so should i say Sentry > Silver Surfer.
King Thor that fought with Thing and Hulk < normal Thor who is bloodlusted, since he doesn't have one arm. I don't see why it is suprsing that Cap could harm him. Thor was almost finished by ealier battle with two giant heroes. So Thor would have at least one battle won again Savage Hulk and one against Professor Hulk. Point wasn't that Hulk never met him (it also wouldn't matter, because his strength isn't the same in all his appearances IMO) , but that Thor has that great strength feat. And what Hulk has to put himself on this level? Neutron Star PIS? Why? It isn't even a planet level feat, as it was calculated already in one thread. BTW, You're saying that holding back is always an excuse... But look at Thor in Blood and Thunder. Look at King Thor. Look what BRB has done. All these stories shows us guy who seems to be levels above Thor.
Based on what compelling evidence did you come up with the conclusion that King Thor < Thor? King thor had odin force in him, the entire damn odin force, i see no reason to believe him to be < Thor.
When did Thor win a battle against Savage Hulk or Prof Hulk in a pure H2H? Prof Hulk wasnt KOed although Thor was getting the better of him throughout the fight , and Hela actually stoped the fight before anyone was even close to being KOed. I have never seen Thor KO savage hulk with pure physical force, lightning yes pure physical force no.
Neutron Star isnt planetary level but if that is to be taken as a feat that would put thor above 100 trillion tons (assuming a normal neutron star, we have no clue how big the neutron star actually is and hence we cannot determine how heavy the pull would be), thats not the strength he is normally shown to be in. I mean if that is what Thor could do that he should have picked up Asgard with a pinkie.
Thats why i think neutron star feat is PIS.
Thor in Blood and thunder, he was going all out while both silver surfer and BRB were trying to stop him rather than beat him. King thor is NOT normal thor, its like me saying Thanos is durable look at HOTU or IG. What BRB has done has got nothing to do with Thor now is it? despite their hammer being identical they are not the same strength level and before you pull the whoever holds the hammer would have power of thor, both Odin and Bor held the hammer as well, so with hammer both Odin and Bor is exactly equal to Thor???????
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