#51 Posted by MzombieX (975 posts) - - Show Bio

 THOR
#52 Posted by coolbeans (249 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor in a tough fight. 

#53 Posted by Manchine (4269 posts) - - Show Bio

Apocalypse is NO WHERE near powerful enough to take on A classed heroes or villains.  Apocalypse has no hope of defeating beings like Thor, Hulk, or Kang (in other words A classed Heroes or Villains).
#54 Posted by Manchine (4269 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh and before anyone says anything.  Apocalypse that took down the hulk was a Copy that franklin richards created.  He seperated the Hulk from bruce banner and hulk was dieing which is why Apocalypse was powerful enough to beat Hulk, after Hulk had fought through all the xmen.
#55 Posted by doomsummers (834 posts) - - Show Bio
@Manchine: how does the hulk end up when one of the best healinf factors in marvel?
#56 Edited by blacharrt (1591 posts) - - Show Bio
@odinforce: yes, but that was just fanboyism, I know she can't actually win that fight without some kind of boost. Stay on topic.
#57 Posted by SC (14414 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor fo sure. Better objective and subjective feats. Only way this would be a close battle, consistent with both characters, is if Thor is holding back some and engaging Apocalypse hand to hand with Apocalypse using like all his powers. Then it might be you know, interesting. Apocalypse has expressed fear of Gambit and Namor throwing a chair at him. He can beat both. A characters feelings and emotions aren't objective, tested and tried ways of evaluating what would happen. It can be used as evidence? Especially if you have the ability to get the characterization of characters right. That also being said, I think Apocalypse is underrated generally. Would love to see a good objective writer tackling this battle in an actual comic. 

Moderator
#58 Posted by doomsummers (834 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: Have you seen the scans posted from earlier? Apocalypse would beat Thor. The Harbinger of Apocalypse beat Thor and the Avengers. I don't see why Apocalypse wouldn't be able to do the same.
#59 Edited by DiamondsandPearls (227 posts) - - Show Bio
@doomsummers
A Thor unleashed would destroy him with no problem. His weather attacks will put down Apoc. If the X-Men and Magneto can do it, Thor does it even easier. Thors sheer raw power allows him to injure skyfathers and Galactus at 3 occasions. These beings are far above the X-Men. 
 
1. Strength: Nothing suggests that Apocalypse is even close to Thor in strength whereas Thor has destroyed asteroids, moons, and small planets. Thor has one shotted beings like Apoc before.
2. Durability: Apocalypes is quite durable, but Thor is even more so. He has contend with skyfathers and taken their hits before and still kept on fighting, he has taken extreme temperatures, he has easily stood in the sun just to talk to Atum, he has also resisted time manipulation. 
 
As for susanoo2, he knows how powerful Thor is. You "troll" Apocalypse to the point where you believe he can defeat Firelord since we're allowed to point fingers.
#60 Posted by SC (14414 posts) - - Show Bio
@doomsummers said:
@SC: Have you seen the scans posted from earlier? Apocalypse would beat Thor. The Harbinger of Apocalypse beat Thor and the Avengers. I don't see why Apocalypse wouldn't be able to do the same.
 
I don't need to scans from anyone. I am a 54 year old virgin, with no friends, no family, I work at the best bakery store in Germany and I make... I get 4 gold bars an hour. So I can afford to have every Marvel and DC and Zenoscope book ever, and read them all, and memorized them all. So I don't need to see other peoples scans, since most of the time people suck at understand what's going on in a scan, and they suck at applying objective evaluation of what goes on in a scan, and because bias and lack of critical logic usually means they think that one scan equates to what will happen over and over, when to effectively measure that likelihood, we need to the same scenario repeated over and over again. So there application of consistency is weak and oversimplified (I am not calling your post with scans this, since I did not read your post, its my general attitude to all posts with scans, unless asked to look at something by a person ~ but usually then, I can just look though my own collection or just remember off the top of my head the example)  
 
So no, I do not think that Apocalypse would beat Thor, even if someone states it as you did. Apocalypse could beat Thor. What you constitute as HoA beating Thor and Avengers might not be the same as what I do. Even if he did beat Thor, so what? Lots of characters have beaten Thor, Thor often holds back, its a weak argument to apply in my eyes, so I don't apply it. Well I do, I just apply superior counter arguments for both characters. Was Thor holding back against HoA? Were his team mates present? Did HoA need to worry about tea mates getting injured? What was the extent of HoA's amping abilities? Every character has a limit? If that fight happened 1000 times, would the outcome always be the same? 
 
I won't question your ability to see why Apocalypse can't. I can though. I can see a thousand reasons why he can't do the same. I can see a thousand why he could. Thee are much more complicated arguments at work here for me. Thor is a much superior flier to Apocalypse, Thor has one shot characters with strength feats as high as Apocalypse. Thor can hit characters who can phase and kill immortal characters with his most potent energy attacks. He is resistant to all types of attacks and has really cool boots! I have other reasons that give me basis for my opinion. I am sure you have good reasons for your opinion as well. 
Moderator
#61 Posted by SC (14414 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC said:
Even if he did beat Thor, so what? Lots of characters have beaten Thor, Thor often holds back.
 
Quicksand, and Moongoose and some of the Wrecking Crew, have either stalemated or beaten Thor, yet when he is pissed or fighting hardcore he has either owned above, or knocked them out with like two of three attacks. In fact pertinent to this thread, when the same guys that En Sab use to pray and talk to for moral support the Egyptian gods, when they saw Thor demonstrating physical, emotional and mental vulnerability they attacked him, and did alright. Until the end of the issue, Thor actually started trying and thus started winning. So every scan and example one has of Thor or any character, questions must be asked. What was their motivation, what was their goal and objective and were they holding back and if yes, why and if no, why? If a picture tells a thousand words, more than half of them would be questions!  
 
@DiamondsandPearls:  Some great points made. 
Moderator
#62 Posted by DiamondsandPearls (227 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC
Meh. They pale in comparison to yours.
#63 Posted by doomsummers (834 posts) - - Show Bio
@DiamondsandPearls: When has the X men and Magneto  defeated Apocalypse? He owned the X men when he was severely weakened. Injuring someone isn't the same as beating them. On one of the earlier scans Apocalypse is shown easliy overpowering the Hulk. The Hulk at his strongest would easliy beat Thor unleashed. Apocalypse has control of every single molecule in his body meaning he can be as dense as he wants to be. I made my point in that thread of Apocalypse vs Firelord, yet people like you continue to say Firelord wins. That is called trolling especially when you try to to back up another troll on his trolling.
#64 Posted by DiamondsandPearls (227 posts) - - Show Bio
@doomsummers said:


                    @DiamondsandPearls: When has the X men and Magneto  defeated Apocalypse? He owned the X men when he was severely weakened. Injuring someone isn't the same as beating them. On one of the earlier scans Apocalypse is shown easliy overpowering the Hulk. The Hulk at his strongest would easliy beat Thor unleashed. Apocalypse has control of every single molecule in his body meaning he can be as dense as he wants to be. I made my point in that thread of Apocalypse vs Firelord, yet people like you continue to say Firelord wins. That is called trolling especially when you try to to back up another troll on his trolling.

                   

               

X-Men defeated him once or twice. Magneto has defeated him once before as well. susanoo2 said that. Guess what? They said it was all in Hulks mind, it wasn't a strength feat. Stan Lee stated that Thor is stronger than Hulk. I can post the link. Because Firelord wins. It's not trolling if he's posting valid reasons why Thor wins. Everyone agrees Thor wins. Unless you come up with an unbias and non arrogant post, this remains to be true. Fact for now is, Apoc is under Thor and Superman. He's also lost to Magneto. Apoc is nowhere on herald level where as Thor has fought skyfathers and Galactus numerous times. Answer this, what can Apocalypse do to Thor to win?
#65 Posted by Manchine (4269 posts) - - Show Bio
@doomsummers said:
@Manchine: how does the hulk end up when one of the best healinf factors in marvel?
What does that have to do with it.  If its not the real hulk it doesn't matter.  Duplicate Hulk obviously didn't the same healing factor.  I know he was killing himself with his gamma radiation.  That Gamma Radiation was also destroying the dimension.  Which later got turned into a planet on the opposite side of the earth in the 616 dimension.
#66 Posted by doomsummers (834 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: For 2 issues of HOA vs Thor and the Avengers. Thor couldn't do anything to HOA. It was even stated by Cable that in the future that there was no Avengers because of Apocalypse's reign. I'm pretty sure Thor didn't hold back when the world was ending. Thor asked Cable to delay HOA while he gets this power charged up. Thor hits HOA with this power that sends HOA to a different dimsension. HOA adapts and escapes. Thor wasn't holding back. HOA could have kept adapting to all of the Avenger's abilities but Apocalypse used molecule manipulation to turn HOA into a bomb so that Apocalypse's reign can be set into events that have his reign come true. Your being too hypothetical in a debate forum. You have to be more assertive. If you wanted to be hypothetical in the first place you should have sent me as personal message to explore your theories.
#67 Posted by doomsummers (834 posts) - - Show Bio
@Manchine: When your dieing and you have a healing factor, your healing factor heals you. Duuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
#68 Posted by DiamondsandPearls (227 posts) - - Show Bio
@doomsummers said:


                    @SC: For 2 issues of HOA vs Thor and the Avengers. Thor couldn't do anything to HOA. It was even stated by Cable that in the future that there was no Avengers because of Apocalypse's reign. I'm pretty sure Thor didn't hold back when the world was ending. Thor asked Cable to delay HOA while he gets this power charged up. Thor hits HOA with this power that sends HOA to a different dimsension. HOA adapts and escapes. Thor wasn't holding back. HOA could have kept adapting to all of the Avenger's abilities but Apocalypse used molecule manipulation to turn HOA into a bomb so that Apocalypse's reign can be set into events that have his reign come true. Your being too hypothetical in a debate forum. You have to be more assertive. If you wanted to be hypothetical in the first place you should have sent me as personal message to explore your theories.

                   

               

Plot. Tell me if Stan Lee and Kirby were writing Thor vs Apocalypse, what would happen? Stan stated Thor's the most powerful hero on marvel earth. His level is above Magneto whom defeated Apocalypse once. Apocalypse lacks the physical attributes needed to fight Thor. He has no powers that would allow him a win over Thor.
 
As for SC, he speaks in a reasonable, nonarrogant post and he's right. He's just debating for both sides, not one. I could do that as well but I choose not to.
#69 Posted by doomsummers (834 posts) - - Show Bio
@DiamondsandPearls:  When has the X men defeated him? Here Apocalypse is weakened taking on a group of the X Men. Magneto never defeated 616 Apocalypse. Alot of writers state alot of different things. The person who was writing PR Beyonder said that the Hulk is stronger than any mortal or immortal on Earth. Everyone agreeing someone winning doesn't make it true.
#70 Posted by doomsummers (834 posts) - - Show Bio
@DiamondsandPearls: Didn't Stan Lee write the Rise of Apocalypse?
#71 Posted by SC (14414 posts) - - Show Bio
@doomsummers said:
@SC: For 2 issues of HOA vs Thor and the Avengers. Thor couldn't do anything to HOA. It was even stated by Cable that in the future that there was no Avengers because of Apocalypse's reign. I'm pretty sure Thor didn't hold back when the world was ending. Thor asked Cable to delay HOA while he gets this power charged up. Thor hits HOA with this power that sends HOA to a different dimsension. HOA adapts and escapes. Thor wasn't holding back. HOA could have kept adapting to all of the Avenger's abilities but Apocalypse used molecule manipulation to turn HOA into a bomb so that Apocalypse's reign can be set into events that have his reign come true. Your being too hypothetical in a debate forum. You have to be more assertive. If you wanted to be hypothetical in the first place you should have sent me as personal message to explore your theories.
 
Here, I'll demonstrate something for you okay, to illustrate why I don't think its a good idea that you try and engage my in a debate of opinion, aside from the fact that you think I am being too hypothetical. Whatever that means. Don't forget you, quoted me first and hey, if you wanted to ask me a question, or tell me your opinion, why not send me a PM? Oh wait, probably because people can reply how they see fit no? So I am sorry, no private messages from me sorry lol *smile* 
 
Okay, you contradict yourself above, but lets move to a much more clear demonstration of why I think your argument is flawed and hence not a good reason for me to change my min, but demonstrative of why you probably believe the stance you do.  
 
@doomsummers said:
Apocalypse has control of every single molecule in his body meaning he can be as dense as he wants to be. 
 
Lets look at this yes? If Apocalypse has control over every single molecule in his body, then he can not, objectively, be as dense as he wants to be, unless the extent of his knowledge limits him to thinking being as dense on a molecular level is as dense as one can be, which just isn't the case at all. Except given Apocalypse's intelligence, and knowledge it would be extremely unlikely he holds this view, and so your statement here is easily dismissed as false. Wrong. Not jiving with my turky. Now you understand I can do this to more of your statements right? Except because I am limited for time, I am applying my own semi fallacious argument, and saying, if you are making statements like above, and holding them as true, then we have vastly different ways of observing fact, objectivity and subjectivity, and that most of your argument can and probably eventually would be dismissed in similar fashion. Its pointless. For you, since such types of arguments won't sway my opinion, and I am not really concerned in changing your opinion, more just defend my own. How's that for assertion my friend? *smile*  
 
I respect your opinion. Your assertions however lack evidence sufficient enough to dispute what I have said. 
Moderator
#72 Posted by SpidermanWins (4142 posts) - - Show Bio

Current Thor will rip him to peices before the fight actually starts

#73 Posted by doomsummers (834 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: He created Adamantium in the Twelve. He has understanding of Celestial Technology.
#74 Posted by doomsummers (834 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: I will post more scans then.
#75 Posted by SC (14414 posts) - - Show Bio
@doomsummers:  So... I say Apocalypse is smart enough to understand that molecular control does not grant absolute immunity, and you post a scan supporting me thinking he is intelligent... thank you? 
Moderator
#76 Posted by Manchine (4269 posts) - - Show Bio
@doomsummers said:
@Manchine: When your dieing and you have a healing factor, your healing factor heals you. Duuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Not if your die faster then it heals.  Dude now your trolling.  Its not even the real hulk.  If you include hulk in your argument you've already lost then.
#77 Posted by doomsummers (834 posts) - - Show Bio

Apocalypse has singlehandedly killed off an entire tribe of N’Garai in the past. The N’Garai have ruled the Earth in the past and granted immense power to Belasco, and The Shadowqueen, Master Khan, and Kulan Gath, amongst others. Small groups of N’Garai have given the Hulk (and killed The Puffball Collective), Darkhold Redeemers, and X-Men much trouble, while individuals were good fights for individual superbeings like Wolverine, Shadowcat, and Sabretooth, and individuals even stole souls like Archangel’s soul. Kierrok, a team threat, who’s eye was used to magically beat the X-Men, was a tribe leader.

#78 Posted by DiamondsandPearls (227 posts) - - Show Bio
@doomsummers
He said Hulk has infinite potential. Let's explore this however. Infinite. How many times has this idea been used in comics to interpret character power levels? Odin was stated multiple times to be omnipotent and all knowing. However, this is false. Hulk virtually has unlimited potential because his strength can keep increasing. That's the statement the writer and Beyonder were making. Thor > Apocalypse is true. Do you honestly think Apocalypse can shrug off his lightnings or his high level magical/weather attacks that can damage skyfathers? Do you think he can take several unrestrained hammer blows to the head? Do you believe that Apocalypse can even do anything to Thor? Comparing low level X-Men to Thor isn't a good comparison. It's almost like comparing Hawkgirl to Superman. Nothing within Apocalypse's showings nor his powerset has proven to me he can take Thor.
#79 Posted by doomsummers (834 posts) - - Show Bio
@Manchine: When Juggernaut fought War Hulk he called the Hulk Bruce. Meaning Bruce Banner.
#80 Posted by Manchine (4269 posts) - - Show Bio
@doomsummers said:
@Manchine: When Juggernaut fought War Hulk he called the Hulk Bruce. Meaning Bruce Banner.
Yes, who was separated from Hulk.  It still doesn't change the Fact that all those characters were from franklins reeds powers that he created a whole dimension in his snowglobe of everyone from 616 earth.
#81 Posted by doomsummers (834 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: Admantium has been broken, right? What scans do you want?
#82 Posted by SC (14414 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC said:
@doomsummers said:
@SC: For 2 issues of HOA vs Thor and the Avengers. Thor couldn't do anything to HOA. It was even stated by Cable that in the future that there was no Avengers because of Apocalypse's reign. I'm pretty sure Thor didn't hold back when the world was ending. Thor asked Cable to delay HOA while he gets this power charged up. Thor hits HOA with this power that sends HOA to a different dimsension. HOA adapts and escapes. Thor wasn't holding back. HOA could have kept adapting to all of the Avenger's abilities but Apocalypse used molecule manipulation to turn HOA into a bomb so that Apocalypse's reign can be set into events that have his reign come true. Your being too hypothetical in a debate forum. You have to be more assertive. If you wanted to be hypothetical in the first place you should have sent me as personal message to explore your theories.
 
Here, I'll demonstrate something for you okay, to illustrate why I don't think its a good idea that you try and engage my in a debate of opinion, aside from the fact that you think I am being too hypothetical. Whatever that means. Don't forget you, quoted me first and hey, if you wanted to ask me a question, or tell me your opinion, why not send me a PM? Oh wait, probably because people can reply how they see fit no? So I am sorry, no private messages from me sorry lol *smile* 
 
Okay, you contradict yourself above, but lets move to a much more clear demonstration of why I think your argument is flawed and hence not a good reason for me to change my min, but demonstrative of why you probably believe the stance you do.  
 
@doomsummers said:
Apocalypse has control of every single molecule in his body meaning he can be as dense as he wants to be. 
 Lets look at this yes? If Apocalypse has control over every single molecule in his body, then he can not, objectively, be as dense as he wants to be, unless the extent of his knowledge limits him to thinking being as dense on a molecular level is as dense as one can be, which just isn't the case at all. Except given Apocalypse's intelligence, and knowledge it would be extremely unlikely he holds this view, and so your statement here is easily dismissed as false. Wrong. Not jiving with my turky. Now you understand I can do this to more of your statements right? Except because I am limited for time, I am applying my own semi fallacious argument, and saying, if you are making statements like above, and holding them as true, then we have vastly different ways of observing fact, objectivity and subjectivity, and that most of your argument can and probably eventually would be dismissed in similar fashion. Its pointless. For you, since such types of arguments won't sway my opinion, and I am not really concerned in changing your opinion, more just defend my own. How's that for assertion my friend? *smile*   I respect your opinion. Your assertions however lack evidence sufficient enough to dispute what I have said. 
 
I'll just re-quote this and leave this here for you to address. If you wish to. 
 
If your posting irrelevant scans please realize you don't have to quote me, or reply to me. Like I said, I'm cool with you having your opinion. One of you most recent posts addressed to no one, was very well written. (one with the scan from the VS Dracula mini) Great. Still, I don't care for the general argument, if you wish to address stuff I have actually said, I kindly ask that you do. If your just interesting in quoting and or reply to me, with non sequitur arguments and scans, then I'll just quote this post right here as my reply to you, making sure to highlight the part of my argument, that leaves little to no room, for demonstrating who argument was more objectively correct.  
 
Essentially I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree, since I need actual arguments and reasons to change my mind, and you have not addressed any of my points so I suspect your just going to hold onto your opinion no matter what anyone would or could say. 
Moderator
#83 Posted by SC (14414 posts) - - Show Bio
@doomsummers said:
@SC: Admantium has been broken, right? What scans do you want?
 
I need a scan of a person actually addressing an argument, instead of arguing from opinion and offering up scans I have in books already and attempting to pass them off as an argument. I am not sure if you own that book yet, since its being written as we speak *smile*  
 
I will refer to my other post, literally anything you post in scan form, that i consider irrelevant, i'll just refer back to the other quote/post. 
Moderator
#84 Posted by doomsummers (834 posts) - - Show Bio
@DiamondsandPearls: Look at more of my scans on this thread.
#85 Posted by doomsummers (834 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: We are talking about Apocalypse's intelligence. I posted scans of his powers and what he has done for them for future reference. I can refer you to a book too. I going outside. I will message you later.
#86 Posted by SC (14414 posts) - - Show Bio
@doomsummers said:
@SC: We are talking about Apocalypse's intelligence. I posted scans of his powers and what he has done for them for future reference. I can refer you to a book too. I going outside. I will message you later.
 
Why are we talking about his intelligence? I state Apocalypse is smart enough to know what a molecule is and do you disagree? You either agree with me here, or disagree. If you agree with me, well of course, I am right. If you disagree, you undermine your whole argument. 
Moderator
#87 Posted by isaac_clarke (5665 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor stomps.

#88 Posted by azza04 (1575 posts) - - Show Bio

Apocalypse has a vast array of Celestial weaponry that could probably hurt Thor. Even so I would say Thor takes this with the use of his most Powerful attacks.

#89 Posted by Timandm (3393 posts) - - Show Bio

Um...Could not easily go either way?  They are both ridiculously powerful.  They both are immortal but both CAN die...  So, isn't possible that EITHER could win?

#90 Posted by BarelyAverage (1181 posts) - - Show Bio
@Timandm: Yes they are immortal in life essence but their bodies can be destroyed.
#91 Posted by TransgressionsofSociety (196 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm just going to respond with Thor, and don't say I'm biased because of my picture.

#92 Posted by TheMightyAvenger (1917 posts) - - Show Bio
@Timandm: Thor isn't actually immortal only extremelly long lived, as for Apoc i don't know. This fight goes to Thor.
#93 Posted by doomsummers (834 posts) - - Show Bio
@Manchine: The Hulk is the one with powers meaning the Hulk that fought Apocalypse is still the same Hulk with the same abilities.
#94 Posted by doomsummers (834 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: @doomsummers:  So... I say Apocalypse is smart enough to understand that molecular control does not grant absolute immunity, and you post a scan supporting me thinking he is intelligent... thank you?  
I am showing scans of his intelligence with him using Celestial Technology. He created a mantis creature using his powers.
#95 Posted by omega_prime (38 posts) - - Show Bio

im tired of people thinking that apocalypse is a big shot, he isnt, i mean this guy has been trying to take over earth for a long time and has always failed, thor on the other hand has gone toe to toe with much more powerfull foes than apocalypse, he even knocked down arishem in one occasion.  
 
God of thunder for the win

#96 Posted by SC (14414 posts) - - Show Bio
@doomsummers said:
@SC:  I am showing scans of his intelligence with him using Celestial Technology. He created a mantis creature using his powers.
 
Actually no, thats a picture of him creating a cheese burger with his George Foreman Grill Technology and even then he undercooked the patty so I agree with you. Apocalypse dies in this first hit.  
 
I am glad to see you changed your mind and concede. 
Moderator
#97 Posted by SC (14414 posts) - - Show Bio

As for discrepancies involving immortality and death, its all relative. Literally every immortal can die, it just depends on the methods. Even Eternity dies eventually. Immortality doesn't mean, you absolutely can't die under any circumstance. Sometimes it just means you don't age, sometimes it means the people who use the term were a child when you were young, and die old, whilst your still young, sometimes it means you live for 4000 years, physically break down, but then reform after 20 years, sometimes it means you live for 5 billion years. Sometimes it means the Universe contracts and you disappear inside a big flamey bird and return as a guy with a big purple hat live for a few billion years, and then get killed by Rulk. So as another poster pointed out, both characters are stated as immortal (Thor is Asgardian, but he is also the son of an Elder god and the All Father), both can still die though. 

Moderator
#98 Edited by Edamame (29220 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor and Apocalypse engaged each other here, and Iron Man managed to encase him in a force field later on. I am not sure if this is 616: 


 

#99 Posted by The Dude. (924 posts) - - Show Bio

That looks like it comes from The Avengers, and it looks like a time displaced Apocalypse?

#100 Posted by doomsummers (834 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: Are you high? He was intelligent enough to use Celestial Technology to turn somebody into a stone. The other scan I showed, displayed him creating a mantis creature out of nothing. Do you really know how to debate? I can refer you to some classes in San Mateo California that will show you the basics of arguing.