Thor runs the Justice League Big 7 Gauntlet

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Ancient_0f_Days

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DemonKnights

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#452  Edited By DemonKnights

@dorukesin: First of all, during sacrifice, Diana was blocking heat vision from Clark for most of the beginning, she was caught off guard and as soon as he charged at her he shot heat vision and she blocked it which gave her no time to move out of the way, he didn't just flat out blitz her. You cannot dispute this and saying she didn't react to anything is not only false and a lie, it is pure nonsense. Second, she was taken to the sun, on the way there she had to react to more heat vision, take some of it, block it and shove it in his face before flashing him with K. After getting hit back to earth and getting frozen, she blindsided Superman which should be impossible for someone who's sooooo much slower than Superman and would be stomped in a second. After hitting him with her bracers, she managed to land several hits, block Superman's punch, dodge more heat vision, she gets grabbed but lands another hit while dodging, gets her wrist snapped, dodges another punch then sends Superman flying with a kick....if he was so much faster than her, none of that would be possible. She was holding back. Also even before the fight, they had a situation....in the watch tower.

If Superman outclassed Diana, she wouldn't have gotten that lasso around his neck like that. This is indisputable. Diana usually manages to land more hits than Clark in most of their fights except for a couple where they landed an equal number of hits. Other than that, Diana has more impressive speed feats overall. You have no reason to deny Wonder Woman's reaction speed over Superman's other than simple difference in opinion. Problem is, mine is based on fact. Yours isn't since your claim that Wonder Woman's speed doesn't compare to Superman's is refuted in every single fight they've ever had, you're opinion is defying fact, which makes it false. Translation, you're wrong. That is all.

Thumbs up. Diana wrecks thor

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Ancient_0f_Days

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HushoftheWind

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i don't get this over praise of Bruce Timm Justice League Batman. He had some impressive showings but nothing astonishing enough to put him the leagues of Thor and Superman. Hell he got taken down by Copperhead in one ep. Sure he had a good showing against Darkseid and got well quick Batarang strike against Sinestro, but other than that i thought Batman was properly displayed among the other heroes in Justice League.

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Ancient_0f_Days

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@hushofthewind: He also danced around Orion's brother....and is Batman.

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Dredeuced

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i don't get this over praise of Bruce Timm Justice League Batman. He had some impressive showings but nothing astonishing enough to put him the leagues of Thor and Superman. Hell he got taken down by Copperhead in one ep. Sure he had a good showing against Darkseid and got well quick Batarang strike against Sinestro, but other than that i thought Batman was properly displayed among the other heroes in Justice League.

I'm pretty sure it was in jest, friend.

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Pokeysteve

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I don't know man, Barry's phasing punch seemed to do serious damage to the Martian Manhunters. Barry's got some hilarious speed feats circa New 52 as well.

No where near his Pre 52 self. What are the "Martian Manhunters"? Haha There is only one still alive that I know of.

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GraniteSoldier

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Stops at Flash, or Manhunter. Could go either way with Supes.

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Lvenger

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@kangconquers: There's no DC bias here, only a general understanding that the DC powerhouses have the necessary powers to take Thor down.

  • Wonder Woman is insanely faster than Thor in combat, is strong enough to hurt him and has the equipment to block his ranged attacks and incapacitate him with her lasso.
  • Green Lantern is way more versatile than Thor and has more options to KO him than Thor does. Even if Thor can get past his shields, Hal has tanked a direct hit from Superboy Prime, the deranged Kryptonian who's multiple times stronger than Pre Flashpoint Superman. I'm sure he can take some of Thor's hits along the way.
  • Barry Allen is going to be practically untouchable to Thor. Whether this is Pre or Post New 52 Barry, Thor is not touching a hair on his head if Barry doesn't want him to. Therefore, Barry will probably blitz the hell out of Thor in character or, if he was out of character, he could do far worse to him. But you've acknowledged that already
  • Martian Manhunter is basically Superman with planetary+ telepathy, phasing that makes him untouchable, shapeshifting, regeneration from an arm or even goo and more. So how does Thor beat an even more powerful version of Superman?
  • And Superman obviously stands a chance of beating Thor via comparable physicals, vastly superior speed and practical versatility in combat.

So it's clear that Thor doesn't get past Round 2. He's not going to touch Diana and he can't counter her advantages in battle.

Also LOL at Silver Surfer being below Thor. Just absolutely LOL. Your grasp of the difference of power between these characters is utterly on the wrong end of the spectrum. If anything, Silver Surfer stands a much better chance against the Justice League than Thor does. He could probably clear this gauntlet with Martian Manhunter and Barry Allen being the only ones to give him problems. I don't know why you think Thor>Silver Surfer but unfortunately, you're absolutely wrong there.

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christianrapper

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i don't get this over praise of Bruce Timm Justice League Batman. He had some impressive showings but nothing astonishing enough to put him the leagues of Thor and Superman. Hell he got taken down by Copperhead in one ep. Sure he had a good showing against Darkseid and got well quick Batarang strike against Sinestro, but other than that i thought Batman was properly displayed among the other heroes in Justice League.

it's a joke, i think.

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Super_Buck

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Stops at 5

Lol. I hope the OP did some editing before I read this because this is ridiculous.

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dorukesin

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#464  Edited By dorukesin

@ancient_0f_days said:

@dorukesin: First of all, during sacrifice, Diana was blocking heat vision from Clark for most of the beginning, she was caught off guard and as soon as he charged at her he shot heat vision and she blocked it which gave her no time to move out of the way, he didn't just flat out blitz her. You cannot dispute this and saying she didn't react to anything is not only false and a lie, it is pure nonsense. Second, she was taken to the sun, on the way there she had to react to more heat vision, take some of it, block it and shove it in his face before flashing him with K. After getting hit back to earth and getting frozen, she blindsided Superman which should be impossible for someone who's sooooo much slower than Superman and would be stomped in a second. After hitting him with her bracers, she managed to land several hits, block Superman's punch, dodge more heat vision, she gets grabbed but lands another hit while dodging, gets her wrist snapped, dodges another punch then sends Superman flying with a kick....if he was so much faster than her, none of that would be possible. She was holding back. Also even before the fight, they had a situation....in the watch tower.

If Superman outclassed Diana, she wouldn't have gotten that lasso around his neck like that. This is indisputable. Diana usually manages to land more hits than Clark in most of their fights except for a couple where they landed an equal number of hits. Other than that, Diana has more impressive speed feats overall. You have no reason to deny Wonder Woman's reaction speed over Superman's other than simple difference in opinion. Problem is, mine is based on fact. Yours isn't since your claim that Wonder Woman's speed doesn't compare to Superman's is refuted in every single fight they've ever had, you're opinion is defying fact, which makes it false. Translation, you're wrong. That is all.

1)I didn't say she can't block his heat vision and blocking heat vision is not a big deal.Clark reacted the speed of light from point blank range in "Swamp Thing #79"

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

2)I didn't said she couldn't react to anything,I said she's not on Clark's level

and no I'm not the wrong guy here.Does she have any feat on that level ? nope.You're comparing Wally West with Barry Allen now

Clark can move and fight at Superluminal Speeds.He can do his job before even photon beams move

No Caption Provided
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uh I couldn't here you.Are you still talking about blocking heat vision ? lol

3)In the whole fight Clark just tried to incapatitate Doomsday,he didn't use his fighting skills and he fought with his instincts.Clark himself said that

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and he reached to his goal.He BFR'd Doomsday(Diana) before she broke his grip.

Let's look at their "FAIR" "Non-Mindcontrolled Fight" at full size

"A League of One"

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really honorable move right ? Using Clark's charity and kick him from his back

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what a princess

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oh wait did we hear enough ? one shot is coming

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deal with it.Wonder Woman is not on Clark's level

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dorukesin

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@erik said:
  • It doesn't matter that Superman thought she was Doomsday. He was fighting as hard as he could and she was able to keep up with that and in fact, was stating that she was trying to not kill him.
  • Whew! It's like you never read A League of One. Wonder Woman was not beaten with one hit. She just didn't need to keep fighting after having weakened him and did you just call that thing she gave him kryptonite? It was a Green Lantern ring, not kryptonite. The fight only lasted as long as WW needed it to and it had no clear winner because if Wonder Woman would have fought it to the end, win or lose, she wouldn't have had what it took to beat the dragon.
  • Every other scan and video did nothing to support your argument one way or another.
  1. he wasn't actually fighting,he's just trying to put Doomsday to the sun.Clark himself said that
  2. Poor boy.Didn't she show him a kryptonite on his face on "Sacriface" ? Writers admitted that Wonder Woman can't beat him.
  3. Yes it did.I was talking about perceiving but I wasn't talking with you
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PrinceAragorn1

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@dondave said:

Loses the first six rounds

This.

@princearagorn1 Lmao...

wow. this reached 7 pages already? I was like.. 'why is he laughing at me? I didn't even post :('.. then went back to the front page..

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The number of Marvel Fanboys here is just amazing.I just read that you people actually think he beats MMH and Barry.Anways Dondave and Lvenger were the only right ones here.Adding my own say to it he doesn't get past round two and if he does MMH or Barry would stomp him.Hell Hal could most likely take down Thor with no PIS or jobbering involved.In general Thor's combat speed is around Wolverine's level.Anyways you guys can try arguing with the fanboys but it won't get you anywhere.

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Evil-Incarnate

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@evil_incarnate said:

I'm actually kind of disappointed that he stops so soon at Wonder Woman, but he can't keep up with her speed and she outclasses him in skill.

How does Thor get past Aquaman and the water hand? Thor doesn't even make it to WW.

I wasn't aware that it was that version of Aquaman. He'll definitely put up a fight and it really could go either way, but I'd give the slight edge to Thor.

@agent41 said:

@evil_incarnate said:

I'm actually kind of disappointed that he stops so soon at Wonder Woman, but he can't keep up with her speed and she outclasses him in skill.

i'm more disappointed by the fact that a thread about thor runnning a gauntlet turns into a flamewar where some people try to argue that WW's combat speed is nowhere near superman's,why is it that many threads involving superman and wonder woman or even some that don't always must turn into a battle of people trying to argue how she is nothing next to A or B or whoever?.

It's best not to get involved in those matters. She's been proven countless times to be on or over his level. Certain people see a particular instance in which he'll hit her and claim that it makes him faster, etc, but will ignore the fact that she hit him two or three times before he landed that one hit. The point here is that both GREATLY outclass Thor in speed.

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Erik

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@erik said:
  • It doesn't matter that Superman thought she was Doomsday. He was fighting as hard as he could and she was able to keep up with that and in fact, was stating that she was trying to not kill him.
  • Whew! It's like you never read A League of One. Wonder Woman was not beaten with one hit. She just didn't need to keep fighting after having weakened him and did you just call that thing she gave him kryptonite? It was a Green Lantern ring, not kryptonite. The fight only lasted as long as WW needed it to and it had no clear winner because if Wonder Woman would have fought it to the end, win or lose, she wouldn't have had what it took to beat the dragon.
  • Every other scan and video did nothing to support your argument one way or another.
  1. he wasn't actually fighting,he's just trying to put Doomsday to the sun.Clark himself said that
  2. Poor boy.Didn't she show him a kryptonite on his face on "Sacriface" ? Writers admitted that Wonder Woman can't beat him.
  3. Yes it did.I was talking about perceiving but I wasn't talking with you
  • No he wasn't. He wanted Doomsday to die. He was trying to murder Doomsday. In Sacrifice, he thought he was taking Doomsday to the sun, so Superman could be sun-dipped when he was trying to kill Doomsday. Superman knows that the sun wouldn't kill Doomsday and if you knew anything about Superman or Doomsday, you would have known that too. She TRIED to use kryptonite. Superman just knocked both it and her away while he was in direct sunlight and then kept trying to kill her. Please read the issues before you try to argue them. Wonder Woman even states that she holds back against him because she didn't want to kill him. She was holding back, he was not.
  • What writers say don't mean a thing. Dwayne McDuffie said that Static moved a light speed and was just as powerful as Magneto. It doesn't matter what they say and the fact that you think it does speaks volumes on your knowledge of any character involved.
  • It doesn't matter who you were talking to. If you are speaking nonsense, anyone is free to put the pointed cap on you and send you to the corner.
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dodirty31

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He wins all but round 4.

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Dredeuced

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#472  Edited By Dredeuced

@dorukesin: Your second set of scans is massively out of context. It's from JLA 21 and you literally cut off the top of the first page that specifically has Clark saying he couldn't do what he did without Flash lending him speed:

No Caption Provided

I assume the missing chunk in the swamp thing scan (the giant blank space at the top left) might have similarly contrary factors to what you're saying. I'm not sure where you got these scans but never trust a scan that's been cut to pieces if you haven't read the story yourself.

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Ancient_0f_Days

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#473  Edited By Ancient_0f_Days

@dorukesin said:

1)I didn't say she can't block his heat vision and blocking heat vision is not a big deal.Clark reacted the speed of light from point blank range in "Swamp Thing #79"

I don't see him reacting to it, I see him seeing it, why not post the rest of it to show him reacting to Swamp Thing. Not saying he can't but that scan isn't doing you ANY favors. And besides...you specifically stated

lol just lol

she didnt react to anything,face it.Clark put her to the sun before she react

Which is a blatant lie.

@dorukesin said:

2)I didn't said she couldn't react to anything,I said she's not on Clark's level

You're right, you specifically said that she "didn't" react to anything....different words, same general meaning. You just ate your own foot and slapped yourself in the face.

(Rick James, b*tch!)
(Rick James, b*tch!)
@dorukesin said:

and no I'm not the wrong guy here.Does she have any feat on that level ? nope.You're comparing Wally West with Barry Allen now

I have to say, this comparison was pulled right out of your imagination. The comparison of gaps between Barry/Wally and Superman/Wonder Woman are incomparable and nothing alike. Wonder Woman has more impressive speed feats than

@dorukesin said:

Clark can move and fight at Superluminal Speeds.He can do his job before even photon beams move

uh I couldn't here you.Are you still talking about blocking heat vision ? lol

Wonder Woman blocked trillions of shards from every angle coming at her for an extended period of time and then outraced them for a time.

No Caption Provided
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This is a better reaction speed feat for obvious reasons, not only is she blocking "trillions upon trillions of imaginably tiny fragments" that may or may not be moving faster than light (doesn't matter), but she intercepted them, sustained the act of blocking each and every individual one as they were already at his face and making contact and made an attempt to outpace the fragments after picking up their target. Superman simply used his greater travel speed (which no one is arguing against) to outrace a Zeta Beam in space and preform a feat before it hit...thing is, no one is talking about travel speed. Sure it's also a good reaction speed feat due to his actions after outracing the beam but it's not as impressive as blocking a near infinite number of barely visible god pieces with your arms and dodging them with a dude in your arms after the fact.

Edit: You also forgot to mention that the goddamn Flash gave Superman extra speed to do the feat, wow, you just lost your entire argument.

As for you not being able to "here" me.........lol. As for talking about heat vision, I already proved you dead wrong so I'm not talking about heat vision anymore.

@dorukesin said:

3)In the whole fight Clark just tried to incapatitate Doomsday,he didn't use his fighting skills and he fought with his instincts.Clark himself said that

and he reached to his goal.He BFR'd Doomsday(Diana) before she broke his grip.

You aren't getting the fact that we aren't focusing on Superman here, we're focusing on Wonder Woman who regardless of what Superman thought, was fighting a bloodlusted Superman while she was on the defensive. Superman was trying to kill her and he simply couldn't, the fact that he didn't know he was fighting her is irrelevant. Your whole argument is that he outclasses her and if that were true (which is clearly isn't) then he wouldn't have had any trouble putting her down, he would've put her down, he would've landed more hits on her, he wouldn't have been dodged so many times and he wouldn't have been completely blindsided by her. His goal is irrelevant, the fact that she couldn't break his grip isn't due to him being faster, it's due to his grip being stronger. But sure, let's forget that she was actively defending herself the entire trip to the sun. You have no point here.

@dorukesin said:

Let's look at their "FAIR" "Non-Mindcontrolled Fight" at full size

"A League of One"

really honorable move right ? Using Clark's charity and kick him from his back

what a princess

Irrelevant, if she was outclassed in speed, he would've been able to react to it in the first place.

@dorukesin said:

oh wait did we hear enough ? one shot is coming

deal with it.Wonder Woman is not on Clark's level

So, are you saying that Wonder Woman was knocked out when he hit her? Was she even greatly damaged? Was she unable to move? If you are...you have no idea what getting one shotted is, this is almost embarrassing. She was fine after receiving the hit and wasn't one shotted, you can stop lying whenever you feel like it. Time to discredit your claim that Diana isn't on Clark's level, with a little help from @r2datu who said it better than I ever could have....

@r2datu said:

said:
said:

why are people under the impression that Wonder Woman can hold her own against Superman

Because she's done it on panel...

On four separate occasions, no less (not counting pre-crisis fights and the Darkseid play-fight).

Fight 1:

JLA 096

Superman is being mind controlled by a vampire lord. Prior to the first page, he surprises Wonder Woman while she is speaking to the vampire and sucker punches her in the back of the head. She shrugs it off and hits him with a punch of her own but he immediately bounces back and tackles her. They begin to fight, but Wonder Woman is forced to fight a pair of vampires at the same time as she is fighting Superman. She kicks one vampire and then rebounds to kick Superman, throwing him off balance long enough for her to grab a sword and decapitate one of the vampires. Superman fights against the mind control and Wonder Woman uses the distraction to sucker punch him, which gives her enough time to impale the vampire lord with her sword. However, Superman gets up and knocks her down, allowing the vampire lord to impale her with the sword. There were mitigating factors to this fight: Wonder Woman was fighting multiple opponents in additional to Superman, and Superman was fighting the mind control. Nevertheless, the fight ended inconclusively with both landing an equal amount of hits. As such, Wonder Woman held her own in this fight.

Fight 2:

Wonder Woman v2 175

Circe has mind controlled and blood lusted Superman. According to Circe, she has cast a spell on Superman unleashing all of his pain and anger after Our Worlds At War and channelled it into blood lust for Wonder Woman. It begins with an immediate charge while Wonder Woman tries to talk sense into Superman. He chokes her and then punches her across the road before tossing her Lasso to Silver Swan. She continues to try to plead with Superman but he attacks her. She blocks his attack with her bracelets and rocks him with a palm thrust to the chin. She locks her legs around his head and then batters him with punches and kicks, knocking him around the street for a while. She pauses her assault to try and talk to him again but he begins unleashing heat blasts at her. She dodges several blasts and gets in close, but he wings her in the side with one shot and grabs her skull. A close range heat blast sends her flying across the block. She quickly gets up and Superman comes charging at her again. Superman dislocates her shoulder but she breaks his grip with a gut shot followed by a kick that sends him flying across the city. This allows her to pop her shoulder back in, until Superman speed blitzes her and rams her into a building. Superman mounts her and drives a bonespike through her palm as he struggles to break past her guard. She holds him off with great difficulty until he is distracted by the environment and she claps his ears before pinning him face-first into the ground. Her birds bring the Lasso back to her and she uses it to rip Superman out of the enchantment. Again, there were mitigating factors here. Superman was blood lusted and out of his mind, so while he was fighting to kill and fighting at full capacity, he was not fighting strategically. Nevertheless, Wonder Woman was able to accomplish her goal during this fight and held her own.

Fight 3:

Wonder Woman v2 219

This is probably the fight that is cited the most. Superman is once again mind controlled, this time by Max Lord. He believes that Wonder Woman is Doomsday and that she has murdered Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen and all of his friends at the Daily Planet.

The fight begins with Superman bullrushing Wonder Woman as well as machine gun rapid firing his heat vision. She blocks the heat vision but is tackled and both of them blast off into the sun. Kal is blood lusted and not holding back. As they are literally next to the sun, they are both withstanding his heat and Superman is super charged (known as sun dipped). He burns her with heat vision until she uses a small amount of Kryptonite to counter act the sun dipping. He manages to knock her back onto Earth and she blacks out for a split second. Advantage, Superman.

Superman reaches her, who is I would assume at normal levels by this point due to the Kryptonite, perhaps slightly above normal due to the sun dipping. He freezes her with ice breath but she immediately breaks out, destroys the boulder he is holding and while he is distracted, uses her bracers to assault his ears. He falls to his knees, screaming in agony. Wonder Woman hits him with multiple kicks, bringing him to his knees for a second time, even though by her own admission, she is holding her strength back. Advantage, Wonder Woman.

Superman dodges her Lasso, and she dodges his heat vision before landing a palm thrust. However, he breaks her wrist. Advantage, Superman.

Again, she dodges his heat vision and breaks his grip before kicking him several hundred meters away. This is the kick that broke his ribs and when he gets up, he is struggling and clutching at his chest and stomach. He is down long enough for Wonder Woman to set her broken wrist and summon birds. Superman is distracted by the birds and creates a hurricane to blow them away. When the hurricane dissipates, he is still clutching at his chest and stomach. Advantage, Wonder Woman.

Maxwell Lord describes the fight as having lasted one minute and forty four seconds from start to finish when Wonder Woman reaches him. Superman arrives and charges Wonder Woman but she immediately slits his throat. She has a conversation with Max and forces him to release Superman. Max does and Superman comes to his senses but is still unable to move and barely able to talk. He must still clutch his throat as it bleeds while Maxwell and Wonder Woman continue their conversation for some time. Advantage, Wonder Woman.

Final tally:

Wonder Woman:

Advantages: Small amount of Kryptonite

Disadvantages: No access to sword or shield, forced to hold back full strength.

End result: Broken wrist, burns from heat vision.

Superman:

Advantages going in: Blood lust, full power unleashed, full power boosted even further through sun dipping.

Disadvantages: Diana's Kryptonite, rage prevented him from thinking clearly

End result: Broken ribs, cut throat that left him incapacitated for a minimum of thirty seconds, unable to move and barely able to talk.

The mitigating factors on both sides mean that this is not a definitive win for Wonder Woman but it is at least a stalemate and she held her own.

Wonder Woman vs Superman (Woman v2 # 219)

Fight 4:

Superman v2 211:

This is an interesting fight because it is the first one where both of them are in their right mind. Neither one is mind controlled or blood lusted. Wonder Woman is trying to stop Superman from killing himself with a device to bring back a lost people. However, this means that neither of them are going all out.

The fight begins with Wonder Woman attacking Superman with her sword. He blocks but sustains a cut on his cheek. They talk for a little while with Superman asking whether Wonder Woman is willing to kill him to stop him from committing suicide, to which she replies that she will stop him. She bashes Clark with her shield, he rams her head into the floor but she twists away and kicks him so hard that he flies out of the fortress of solitude and almost crashes into a helicopter, causing it to swerve and almost crash. He saves the helicopter and flies it back into the fortress where he backhands Diana into a wall. She gets up and tries to punch him but he blocks. They begin to wrestle in mid air and fly out of the fortress which begins to collapse. Superman tells Diana to save the people inside and she relents, breaking away from him to fly them out of the fortress. Neither of them sustained any injuries (the worst was a slight cut on Superman's cheek) and it once again ended in a stalemate with both getting in an equal number of hits. But once again, Wonder Woman held her own.

There we go, in the four on panel fights they have had in continuity, there has never been a clear victor and in each one, Wonder Woman has held her own. I'm not saying she's greater or more powerful than Superman, I don't believe that, but I'm saying that the reason people believe she holds her own against Superman is that in every fight they have had, she has done just that.

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Ancient_0f_Days

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@dredeuced: thanks for the info, didn't know he was bullsh*tting me with that Superman scan...

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DemonKnights

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Owned.

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Dredeuced

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@ancient_0f_days: I am amused how this turned from a "Thor runs the JLA gauntlet," thread to a "Superman vs Wonder Woman," thread.

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@dredeuced: Yea, i asked dorukesin to stop since it wasn't a Supes vs.wondy thread and he said no, He had to defend Supes. I said from what and he Said from the absurd comparison that wondy and Supes are even close....

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reaverlation

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@dredeuced: When Thor is involved, it's no longer a Thor thread

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warlock360

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reaverlation

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#480  Edited By reaverlation
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Ancient_0f_Days

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@ancient_0f_days: I am amused how this turned from a "Thor runs the JLA gauntlet," thread to a "Superman vs Wonder Woman," thread.

As am I, I only got in this cus I was asked by another Viner to look at some of @dorukesin's posts. I didn't want to derail the thread any further than it already was...but I was too compelled to act. Anyway, I think my work here is done.

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ShadowHuntR

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@ancient_0f_days: I do agree Wonder Woman has a shot against Thor but in Post Crisis, she wasn't on the same level as Superman... Her best feats are nowhere even close.

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Ancient_0f_Days

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@ancient_0f_days: I do agree Wonder Woman has a shot against Thor but in Post Crisis, she wasn't on the same level as Superman... Her best feats are nowhere even close.

Oh look, someone else who chooses to ignore blatant facts and things that have been set in stone for decades.

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DemonKnights

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@shadowhuntr: a shot to beat thor? U say that she has a shot and list that her feats werent as good as supermans as proof? Are you implying that you think thor is on par with superman?