I just said this in another thread and no one answered my question so here goes here. So everyone questions thors combat speed and reaction but we all know he travel at the speed of light. But does he not need super reactions to be on par with said speed. If he did not he would just fly threw the planet? We all know Thor has been in battle for thousands of years so in the 5-8 showings in battles where he does not show said reactions. I would argue the showowings where he does not sh speed feets or reactions would be the writers not writing him properly.
IIRC, his travel speed is controlled by his hammer. Thor think a place and Mjolnir take him there. I'm sure a Thor fan can explain it better.
Look, I like Thor. He's cool and he's a complete boss sometimes. Even if he does have some old super speed showings, he's clearly a sadomasochist and likes getting punched in the face. Everyone has their own thang, I'm not judging.
Look, I like Thor. He's cool and he's a complete boss sometimes. Even if he does have some old super speed showings, he's clearly a sadomasochist and likes getting punched in the face. Everyone has their own thang, I'm not judging.
@isaac_clarke: I'm not sure if you're serious or if I should ignore you as per the forum rules.
This find somewhat ironic; I'm trying pretty hard to be nice here. The problem is you're reading like you have some sort of vendetta against me from arguments in a Lobo thread. I'm entertaining these random comparisons you're bringing up and I'm trying to best answer the questions you're asking of me. But I keep hitting this snag where you're trying to find flaws in what I'm saying and in general be argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. It's a little silly.
I just said this in another thread and no one answered my question so here goes here. So everyone questions thors combat speed and reaction but we all know he travel at the speed of light. But does he not need super reactions to be on par with said speed. If he did not he would just fly threw the planet? We all know Thor has been in battle for thousands of years so in the 5-8 showings in battles where he does not show said reactions. I would argue the showowings where he does not sh speed feets or reactions would be the writers not writing him properly.
I don't know if anyone answered your question, Thor doesn't actually fly but gets pulled by his hammer, Mjolnir is the one that maps out his trajectories and things like that.
@isaac_clarke: I take issue with your doublestandards. Lobo has nothing to do with this.
If you want to talk about my "double standards" - let's talk. PM me, point out it and maybe we can discuss this without having you popping up in threads completely bitter over an argument we had months ago to try and find flaws with what is said or cheer on Spike just for arguing with me.
@Jayfournines: Anybody who has FTL travel must also have an equally fast reaction timing. Their brains must have the ability to perform and react at high speeds so as to enable them to be in control of their body and senses when travelling at high speeds.
@Jayfournines: Anybody who has FTL travel must also have an equally fast reaction timing. Their brains must have the ability to perform and react at high speeds so as to enable them to be in control of their body and senses when travelling at high speeds.
Not true. Calculations can be done in advance or via a third party person, object, or effect (in this case Mjolnir).
The only way this can be proven is by reacting to something that has a relative speed to you greater than c.
@Baldy: Mjolnir is under Thor's control. He controls it consciously. So, when he travels at FTL speed, his must have brain functions that are sufficiently fast enough so as to control his flight path and not crash into anything. Whether this ability is granted by Mjolnir or not is irrevelant. The fact is Thor has this ability and I am sure that there is nothing stopping him from using it the way he wants to.
@Baldy: Mjolnir is under Thor's control. He controls it consciously. So, when he travels at FTL speed, his must have brain functions that are sufficiently fast enough so as to control his flight path and not crash into anything. Whether this ability is granted by Mjolnir or not is irrevelant. The fact is Thor has this ability and I am sure that there is nothing stopping him from using it the way he wants to.
Fail logic is fail.
Travel speed granted by Mjolnir is not the same thing as combat speed.
@Baldy: Mjolnir is under Thor's control. He controls it consciously. So, when he travels at FTL speed, his must have brain functions that are sufficiently fast enough so as to control his flight path and not crash into anything. Whether this ability is granted by Mjolnir or not is irrevelant. The fact is Thor has this ability and I am sure that there is nothing stopping him from using it the way he wants to.
Not really, Mjolnir is quite capable of self travel and control, in fact Avengers volume 3 would go so far out to say its part-sentinence since the Jarvis computer in avenger's mansion scans it as sentiment being for whatever reason, left ambiguous though.
BTW, have you read the recent Mighty Thor 09, the recent one (not volume 1 or 2)? There's a neat example, where Thor finds himself in a realm outside space where god's soul go when they die, not knowing where his hammer is he calls forth his hammer, the hammer from earth flies all the way to the realm and onto his hand. I would find it hard to believe Thor could see where hammer needed to be turned and where it did not.
@Baldy: Granted that Mjolnir gives him his speed. I agree with you. But Thor is the one who controls it's flightpath. And he must have a sufficient reaction timing to control Mjolnir's flightpath effectively. Without a sufficient reaction timing, it is impossible for Thor to control Mjolnir's flightpath. This ability is granted by Mjolnir, I agree but the fact that Thor has this ability in his arsenal and I can't think of a sufficient reason besides terrible writers for him to not use this ability. Mjolnir is a part of Thor and all of it's abilities are considered to be Thor's abilities.
@Baldy: Granted that Mjolnir gives him his speed. I agree with you. But Thor is the one who controls it's flightpath. And he must have a sufficient reaction timing to control Mjolnir's flightpath effectively. Without a sufficient reaction timing, it is impossible for Thor to control Mjolnir's flightpath. This ability is granted by Mjolnir, I agree but the fact that Thor has this ability in his arsenal and I can't think of a sufficient reason besides terrible writers for him to not use this ability. Mjolnir is a part of Thor and all of it's abilities are considered to be Thor's abilities.
@Killemall: Which issue of Avenger's vol 3 are you talking about?
Cant remember the exact issue, else would have quoted to you. It was during Avengers: Dissemble where they finally build a new Avenger building after it gets thrashed by Wanda going crazy.
Thor doesnt guide the path of his hammer, thats not correct like you have pointed out. I gave an example from Mighty Thor 10
Gallery
Didnt really look like he was controlling his hammer there.
Also there is The Astonishing Thor mini-series, very recent, where he asks his hammer to locate and follow ego. That also looked like hammer was doing all the pull and turning, rather than thor himself.
@Jayfournines: Anybody who has FTL travel must also have an equally fast reaction timing. Their brains must have the ability to perform and react at high speeds so as to enable them to be in control of their body and senses when travelling at high speeds.
for the bajillionth time. Mjolnir PULLS Thor when flying, he does not control the hammer nor does he will it to fly or anything. The hammer is the one that maps out the trajectory and responds to Thor's wishes (think of it as a really awesome, magical GPS), but in no way does Thor have FTL reaction time, otherwise it would have been proven in one of the hundreds of Thor threads in the vine.
However, you are more than welcome to try and actually prove his speed with scans and feats.
@Killemall: What about when he uses his Hammer to fly? Doesn't Thor control Mjolnir when he flies?
Contrary to what everyone is saying, there hasnt been an outright explanation of how it works , and trust me i have read EVERY Thor solo issue (thats 659 issues so far). Therefore that by-itself is hard to argue. Could be he controls how it move, it be the hammer itself controls, could be that the writers dont give 2 hoots about it, could be many things but since we dont know how it works, and we know that hammer is capable of working on its own, and we have seen evidence to how thor cannot have really fast reaction time as he's been blitz 4 times by street level, its reasonable to assume, regardless of how it works, its hard to use that as an outright proof.
I dont know what people are thinking of this, but I personally think thats a very valid question you have raised, and hats off to that, although i disagree we should use that when we have better proof to show he's not really as fast in terms of reaction.
@Jayfournines: I know. I know that Mjolnir pulls Thor when flying and that almost all of his abilities come from Mjolnir. What I am trying to say is that Thor can enable Mjolnir to give him FTL reaction time the same way Mjolnir enables him to fly at FTL speeds.
@Jayfournines: I know. I know that Mjolnir pulls Thor when flying and that almost all of his abilities come from Mjolnir. What I am trying to say is that Thor can enable Mjolnir to give him FTL reaction time the same way Mjolnir enables him to fly at FTL speeds.
Not really, otherwise he would have done it in all his battles whenever he gets blitzed by people like...y'know...wolverine. Thor's reaction time has never been good as compared to other heroes, I guess it's to give him somewhat of a balance since the hammer does grant him a bunch of other powers. Thor's lack of speed has been commented by a buncha people (even by Thor himself, admitting that Logan is indeed faster) such as Captain America when he scolded him for failing a training exercise specifically tailored to test reaction speed.
@Killemall: What about when he uses his Hammer to fly? Doesn't Thor control Mjolnir when he flies?
Contrary to what everyone is saying, there hasnt been an outright explanation of how it works , and trust me i have read EVERY Thor solo issue (thats 659 issues so far). Therefore that by-itself is hard to argue. Could be he controls how it move, it be the hammer itself controls, could be that the writers dont give 2 hoots about it, could be many things but since we dont know how it works, and we know that hammer is capable of working on its own, and we have seen evidence to how thor cannot have really fast reaction time as he's been blitz 4 times by street level, its reasonable to assume, regardless of how it works, its hard to use that as an outright proof.
I dont know what people are thinking of this, but I personally think thats a very valid question you have raised, and hats off to that, although i disagree we should use that when we have better proof to show he's not really as fast in terms of reaction.
I actually trust your Thor knowledge better than anyone else on this site. Does he get pulled by his hammer when he flies or does Thor have the ability to fly sans Mjolnir?
@Jayfournines: I know. I know that Mjolnir pulls Thor when flying and that almost all of his abilities come from Mjolnir. What I am trying to say is that Thor can enable Mjolnir to give him FTL reaction time the same way Mjolnir enables him to fly at FTL speeds.
And Surfer's board gives him the ability to make the most epic cappuccinos.
@Jayfournines: It is kinda stupid for a guy who can travel at FTL speeds to get blitzed by Logan. I kinda blame terrible writing for Thor getting blitzed by street levelers. If Mjolnir can give him the ability to travel at FTL speeds in hyperspace, I don't see any reason for him not to have FTL reaction time.
@Jayfournines: It is kinda stupid for a guy who can travel at FTL speeds to get blitzed by Logan. I kinda blame terrible writing for Thor getting blitzed by street levelers. If Mjolnir can give him the ability to travel at FTL speeds in hyperspace, I don't see any reason for him not to have FTL reaction time.
Using your logic
If the Enterprise can give him the ability to travel at FTL speeds, I don't see any reason for Sulu not to have FTL reaction time. I mean, he has to steer the ship right?
@Jayfournines: It is kinda stupid for a guy who can travel at FTL speeds to get blitzed by Logan. I kinda blame terrible writing for Thor getting blitzed by street levelers. If Mjolnir can give him the ability to travel at FTL speeds in hyperspace, I don't see any reason for him not to have FTL reaction time.
There's no reason, he just doesn't have it. Yeah, it could be poor writing,and that modern writers tend to make Thor a jobber so as to portray other characters more impressively (basically they use him as a measuring stick)....but it's there; he's been blitzed by mongoose as well, Wolverine, Quicksilver, etc etc. It could be that they tend to stay away from the super speed as to try and not make him like Superman
Thor is usually poorly written because, like I mentioned, he has a ton of powers that he never actually uses...which is pretty crappy, but, y'know...that's how it is.
@Jayfournines: It is kinda stupid for a guy who can travel at FTL speeds to get blitzed by Logan. I kinda blame terrible writing for Thor getting blitzed by street levelers. If Mjolnir can give him the ability to travel at FTL speeds in hyperspace, I don't see any reason for him not to have FTL reaction time.
Using your logic
If the Enterprise can give him the ability to travel at FTL speeds, I don't see any reason for Sulu not to have FTL reaction time. I mean, he has to steer the ship right?
I actually trust your Thor knowledge better than anyone else on this site. Does he get pulled by his hammer when he flies or does Thor have the ability to fly sans Mjolnir?
He gets pulled by the hammer, there is actually an issue The Mighty Thor 192 where because there is so many crowd and no place, thor cant spin his hammer to fly away. So he pushed a building (lol) makes space, spins the hammer and flies away.
So no Thor cannot fly at all without his hammer, he is indeed pulled by his hammer. His hammer can track things and take him there without thor knowing where it is, as evident by The Astonishing Thor 05, coz it was hammer that calculated trajectory, it was the hammer than took him FLT and thor was clearly shocked that the destination was collector lair.
@Killemall: What about when he uses his Hammer to fly? Doesn't Thor control Mjolnir when he flies?
Contrary to what everyone is saying, there hasnt been an outright explanation of how it works , and trust me i have read EVERY Thor solo issue (thats 659 issues so far). Therefore that by-itself is hard to argue. Could be he controls how it move, it be the hammer itself controls, could be that the writers dont give 2 hoots about it, could be many things but since we dont know how it works, and we know that hammer is capable of working on its own, and we have seen evidence to how thor cannot have really fast reaction time as he's been blitz 4 times by street level, its reasonable to assume, regardless of how it works, its hard to use that as an outright proof.
I dont know what people are thinking of this, but I personally think thats a very valid question you have raised, and hats off to that, although i disagree we should use that when we have better proof to show he's not really as fast in terms of reaction.
I like that you're actually giving your perspective and adding to the discussion unlike some of the annoying and unhelpful posts I'm seeing. Anyway, you're right in that there isn't a solid answer. From what I read though, and what makes sense to me, Thor and his hammer are connected, and it "knows" things without being told and can respond to even the most vague desires Thor has without his conscious attention or control. Most of the examples you've posted are things that I used to justify this position. When it comes to how he navigates in space, I see that as the hammer knowing where Thor wants to go and knowing that he doesn't want to crash into things on the way there.
and im not inclined to believe he has slow reactions from bull crap that just happens to be consistent. his classic days prove otherwise, as he was shown to fight at microseconds and react to things inches away from his face on more than one occasion. frankly, classic thor might as well be a completely different character
and im not inclined to believe he has slow reactions from bull crap that just happens to be consistent. his classic days prove otherwise, as he was shown to fight at microseconds and react to things inches away from his face on more than one occasion. frankly, classic thor might as well be a completely different character
Oh, and how to do explain his inability to hit Quicksilver?
Oh, and how to do explain his inability to hit Quicksilver?
PIS.
@moldybutt70 said:
i say he stops at superman
and im not inclined to believe he has slow reactions from bull crap that just happens to be consistent. his classic days prove otherwise, as he was shown to fight at microseconds and react to things inches away from his face on more than one occasion. frankly, classic thor might as well be a completely different character
@thesilentghost: and generally, shouldnt thor have light speed reactions anyway? thor has complete control over mjolnir with his thoughts, otherwise he would not be able to fly. and thor has also traveled past light speeds. with that being said, thor should have FTL reactions.
@thesilentghost: and generally, shouldnt thor have light speed reactions anyway? thor has complete control over mjolnir with his thoughts, otherwise he would not be able to fly. and thor has also traveled past light speeds. with that being said, thor should have FTL reactions.
Travel speed(via mjolnir) has nothing to do with reactionary speed.
@thesilentghost: i know, i was just speculating on that, but i guess im wrong. either way, thor still has some good reaction and combat feats that people usually dont know about or tend to discredit
@thesilentghost: i know, i was just speculating on that, but i guess im wrong. either way, thor still has some good reaction and combat feats that people usually dont know about or tend to discredit
They tend to discredit it because:
A. Occurred decades ago(but are still canon), and
B. Go against modern showings
In which one is supposed to weigh it evenly. For every scan there is of Thor tagging Silver Surfer, there has to be a scan of Wolverine going toe to toe with Thor. Weighing out the showings(both high end and low end) is the key when a character suffers from inconsistent power levels.
@thesilentghost: and generally, shouldnt thor have light speed reactions anyway? thor has complete control over mjolnir with his thoughts, otherwise he would not be able to fly. and thor has also traveled past light speeds. with that being said, thor should have FTL reactions.
The hammer has been shown to move without Thor's conscious control. It can respond to vague desires he has and do things like find enemies even though he has no idea where they are, go to and from points while avoiding obstacles, plot courses for him, and even come to him despite him not remembering it exists. The hammer can take care of Thor not hitting things when he flies without him controlling its every action as it flies FTL. He need not have FTL reactions since his hammer can tow him safely.
@thesilentghost: yeah, but that should be considered careless writing. people argue that its not PIS due to the fact its consistent, but that is not exactly true. thats like saying if deadpool beat galactus a bunch of times, its not PIS because its consistent
the fact still remains that thors had some great feats regarding his speed and reactions. those feats should not be ignored just because writers are always incompetent with him
@thesilentghost: yeah, but that should be considered careless writing. people argue that its not PIS due to the fact its consistent, but that is not exactly true. thats like saying if deadpool beat galactus a bunch of times, its not PIS because its consistent
the fact still remains that thors had some great feats regarding his speed and reactions. those feats should not be ignored just because writers are always incompetent with him
But why should feats that are consistent with decades of showings be ignored? If his low end feats have the greatest support from his history, why are a scant few high end feats the ones that should be followed? What supports them if Thor's overall track record doesn't?
@Buckshot: look i get where your coming from. i honestly do. but heres the thing: do you think someone that has fought at microseconds, moved in a blur of motion, moves faster than the eye can comprehend, has reacted to things inches away from his fast, and swung him hammer 2x the speed of light should LOGICALLY be tagged by guys like wolverine or mongoose? i certainly think not. aside from poor writing, thor also holds back. he usually limits himself to casual speeds because of morals and the sake of plot. unfortunately for thor, he has more of these low showings than he does high in the speed/reaction area, but i honestly dont think that should overall label him as a slow character, because hes not at all.
so, i dont know man. frankly, it seems like writers nowadays could care less about thors character and his great history with stan lee and jack kirby.
you can label him whatever you wish, but in my opinion its simply false to view him as a slow character that can get blitzed easily when hes had a good amount of impressive feats in that area
The hammer has been shown to move without Thor's conscious control. It can respond to vague desires he has and do things like find enemies even though he has no idea where they are, go to and from points while avoiding obstacles, plot courses for him, and even come to him despite him not remembering it exists. The hammer can take care of Thor not hitting things when he flies without him controlling its every action as it flies FTL. He need not have FTL reactions since his hammer can tow him safely.
Mjolnir does not give Thor combat or reactionary speed.
@Buckshot said:
m
But why should feats that are consistent with decades of showings be ignored? If his low end feats have the greatest support from his history, why are a scant few high end feats the ones that should be followed? What supports them if Thor's overall track record doesn't?
As I have already stated:
@thesilentghost said:
In which one is supposed to weigh it evenly. For every scan there is of Thor tagging Silver Surfer, there has to be a scan of Wolverine going toe to toe with Thor. Weighing out the showings(both high end and low end) is the key when a character suffers from inconsistent power levels.
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