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#1 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

1)Thor does not have Mjolnir, he has a adamantium sledge hammer

2) This is the savage version of the hulk

TheAcidSkull Vs Killemall

VOTING NOW IN SESSION!

Killemall- 10

TheAcidSkull- 4

WINNER: KILLEMALL

#2 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

Savage Hulk, right on :)

Few things to consider.

  1. its a debate between me and TheAcidSkull, so no one is allowed to interfere (unless they support Thor) or Thor is going to whack you with the adamantium hammer he has :p be aware.
  2. We will call in people for voting should this not be resolved. The rules on voting on this site is simply, everyone gets to vote once if you choose to vote Hulk your vote arent counted because i am supporting Thor, damn straight, if however, you choose to vote Thor feel free to vote as many times as you want ;)

Will start the debate tomorrow :)

@TheAcidSkull: best of luck mate :)

#3 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: and best of luck to you my friend, not that you'll need luck against me :)

#4 Posted by 80sBaby (1343 posts) - - Show Bio

This thread should be good. I don't know if Thor can beat Hulk with an adamantium hammer. Killemall should've given him a brick, instead. Marvel bricks are Skyfather level. LOL

#5 Posted by TifaLockhart (14046 posts) - - Show Bio

Two guys who know their stuff, in a clash of titans. Looking forward to reading the debate.

#6 Posted by RIKR2 (10829 posts) - - Show Bio

popcorn already in the microwave!! this should be good

#7 Edited by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sBaby said:

This thread should be good. I don't know if Thor can beat Hulk with an adamantium hammer. Killemall should've given him a brick, instead. Marvel bricks are Skyfather level. LOL

And for that statement alone , you are hereby banned from my thread :)

If you insist on posting more stuffs on Hulk's favour, you will be charged $5 dollars for each sentence :p

So i have spoken

LOL

I think he can, also Thor can control lightning to some extent without his hammer.

The way i see it, Thor is just as strong Hulk , most likely faster (not leagues and bounds faster but still a little faster), has skills on his side, has a kicka$$ hammer (and hammers are awesome), and a little lightning if things get too complicated :)

Thats probably my opening argument :)

#8 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: look man, tomorrow i'm kind of busy so i might as well start now, so reply when you are free of your duties :)

Before i begin the debate there is one crucial thing i have to say, Characters such The hulk and Thor are mostly portrayed as jobbers, why? because of the plot, if the cut loose and for example kill captain america,the the fans would not be happy, and the story would bot be able to go on. so lets try to avoiding Jobbing moments. :)

OK lets Begin. ( PS , don't know much of thors feats so your gonna have to make a lot if scans)

Strength

while most of the time , hulk and thor were portrayed to be equals in the test of strength , I personally believe that the hulk has the edge here.

though Thor at first is stronger than the hulk, his strength does not increase, Whiles hulks strength does.Thor has even managed to once send the planet out of orbit because he was wrestling with herc. well hulk has overpowered a force sufficient enough to move the planet out of orbit , on his own, with no assisntace form anyone else .

planet
HULK planet

Thor despite being stronger at a base, woll eventually be overpowered by hulks raw strength which keeps increasing ( while hulk does probably have a limit his limit has not yet been shown, he keeps gaining strength)

Hulk strength knows no bound

Even when others try to absorb his energy they fail, however for some reason hulk managed to temporarily repress hulk.

so i would think that even though, thor is one of marvels strongest powerhouses, he beats thor in this category.

Now my next scan might cause some doubt, because i'm showing something that happened during Planet hulk, Now i know what your thinking " we are debating about savage hulk, so using using this as a argument is wrong " , but i can explain my intent, while hulk was an planet hulk he was significantly weakened, and became far weaker than his savage counterpart. He was slowly regaining his strength so by the time this even accrued , hulk was probably on his normal savage level. ( he got boosted by the shuttle later one that started world war hulk, but i'm sure you know this)

he was prevent sakaar form falling apart through brute strength

he was able to hold a mountain, and he seemed calm at the time, which is why his teammates teased to make him angrier to ensure that hulk manages to hold the mountain ( don't remember exactly, but i know it was something like that)

#9 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall:

Durability

Now i'm not quite sure what to say , both have shown a lot of feats when it comes to durability, but lets not forget that hulks durability becomes greater with his anger, now this might seem odd , but i have a scan to backup my theory. But before i get to that i would like to say that hulks is already very durable, able to take multiple nukes, and even being able to destroy and asteroid twice the size of earth.

Resisting a Nuke

hulks skin can only be damaged by magic, adamantium and vebranium, so yeah hulk will be hurt by thors adamantium hammer , However hulk has shwon good resistance aganist adamantium , here are some examples

and also, during the future imperfect arc hulk destroyed a robot that did had the capability if destroying adamantium within 7.3 seconds.

so i think hulk can handle it

and now as for my theory , there was a fight when abomination was pitted agaist hulk, while hulk is clm abomination easily makes hulk bleed, but as hulk get angrier it seems that abomination cannot cause the same damage. when hulk becomes angry , his durability increases too, his skin becomes denser

Healing factor and stamina

as i'm sure you are aware of this, hulks healing factor allows him to heal the most divesting wounds ever

Healing in seconds
healing in seconds

And as for his stamina,The Hulks body counteracts fatigue poisons that build up in his muscles during physical activity therefore he is capable of going on for days before the fatigue starts to affect him. hulks stamina increases with his anger proof of this in Incredible hulk Vol 340 (sorry but i don't have scans, but you can ignore this is you want)

Reaction speed

I am not sure what to think of this , hulks has been able to tag QS, but he sometimes has trouble tagging wolverine,( however wolverine id immensely popular so it could be to to PIS) but for now this is all i have , thor might have an advantage in this case

Conclusion

though Thor is more skilled than hulk in the art of combat, this is my opinion for now, thor will eventually fall before the might of the hulk . Your turn buddy, and go easy on me, i am not an expert debtor LOL :)

#10 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull: gotta hand it to you mate excellent start, its 5am atm :p i better get some sleep. Will definitely come back to argue tomorrow :)

#11 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: i gotta get some sleep to man, see ya tomorrow , can't wait, and thanks for the compliment :)

#12 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull said:

@Killemall: i gotta get some sleep to man, see ya tomorrow , can't wait, and thanks for the compliment :)

No problem credit given where credit due mate.

While it was nice for you to showcase various hulk attribute i'll go with the assumption that we both know our respective character and focus more on the

Ok so if i am reading your argument right, your strategy for the fight it, drag the fight as long a possible, so that allows Hulk to be angry to the point he can overwhelm Thor with his physical might? That is what you are arguing right?

If so your strategy directly contradicts mine, and as such you will have to provide a way to get out of my strategy as below.

As Hulk starts off weaker (at 70 ton base strength) this gives Thor a big advantage in the fight.

I have underlined them for you to see.

While Hulk's durability to physical force is awesome, even at base strength, he is vulnerable to energy attack while calm (he has however tanked them when extremely angry).

The scans below is from Hulk Annual 2001 (not too old issue, which is what i am aiming for) and while Hulk looks pretty evenly matched against Thor , he was able to KO hulk with 1 lightning bolt.

More specifically this scan

While i have no reason to believe Hulk cant tank that should he get mega-angry, i dont see Hulk being able to tank that on base level.

Now, the above scan, Thor had his enchanted hammer, this scan he doesnt have it. Thor can still manipulate lightning without his hammer, the following scans from The Mighty Thor 584 showcases this:

I am not sure if you are familiar with Durok the Demolisher, he is a character created by Loki (while he had odinforce) to be stronger than Thor during The Mighty Thor 191 (do ask if for scans i you would like to see, not posting for now) and as such has beaten Thor a number of times (3 that i know of) and had a very good fight with Silver Surfer where Silver Surfer finally won via BFR to future (The Mighty Thor 193).

So if he can do that to Durok , i see no reason why he couldnt do that to Hulk (specially at base strength).

I am going to leave my argument at that , so its up to you to come up with a way to avoid this fate, or come up with an argument why Thor shouldnt be able to do so in a fight.

#13 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

No problem credit given where credit due mate.

While it was nice for you to showcase various hulk attribute i'll go with the assumption that we both know our respective character and focus more on the

Ok so if i am reading your argument right, your strategy for the fight it, drag the fight as long a possible, so that allows Hulk to be angry to the point he can overwhelm Thor with his physical might? That is what you are arguing right?

If so your strategy directly contradicts mine, and as such you will have to provide a way to get out of my strategy as below.

As Hulk starts off weaker (at 70 ton base strength) this gives Thor a big advantage in the fight.

I have read that guide book, and the hulk is classed 90/100 tons, the scan you show above was hulks strength during his first appearance,

as of current states , the savage hulk is far more powerful,and the grey hulk is merely 70 tons. i have also underlined the sentence i am looking for ( this is in the same guide book).

Today, Savage hulk was able to fight PF emma frost head on and having no damage damage after wards, ( avenger vs x-men), emma and hulk were in prolonged battle before scott stole emmas powers

@Killemall said:

While Hulk's durability to physical force is awesome, even at base strength, he is vulnerable to energy attack while calm (he has however tanked them when extremely angry).

The scans below is from Hulk Annual 2001 (not too old issue, which is what i am aiming for) and while Hulk looks pretty evenly matched against Thor , he was able to KO hulk with 1 lightning bolt. while i have no reason to believe Hulk cant tank that should he get mega-angry, i dont see Hulk being able to tank that on base level.

while Thor did KO hulk, there is no denying it, Hulk KO'd thor at the end of the issue. i think that this issue was to clear the whole "Hulk is stronger but Thor is more powerful" message. Hulk has also evolved after that, soo i might think that hulks base durability is far superior, as is his strenght

While i have no reason to believe Hulk cant tank that should he get mega-angry, i dont see Hulk being able to tank that on base level.
Now, the above scan, Thor had his enchanted hammer, this scan he doesnt have it. Thor can still manipulate lightning without his hammer, the following scans from The Mighty Thor 584 showcases this:





I am not sure if you are familiar with Durok the Demolisher, he is a character created by Loki (while he had odinforce) to be stronger than Thor during The Mighty Thor 191 (do ask if for scans i you would like to see, not posting for now) and as such has beaten Thor a number of times (3 that i know of) and had a very good fight with Silver Surfer where Silver Surfer finally won via BFR to future (The Mighty Thor 193).
So if he can do that to Durok , i see no reason why he couldnt do that to Hulk (specially at base strength).
I am going to leave my argument at that , so its up to you to come up with a way to avoid this fate, or come up with an argument why Thor shouldnt be able to do so in a fight.

While you said that durok was at the time more powerful than thor, there was no indication that he was more durable than the hulk, so i don't see how this would help thor, in strength wise maybe durok was stronger than thor, but what do we know of his durability?

The scans i showed above had astonishing feats of hulks durability at a calm state, and here is he ( while calm) demonstrating how powerful he is, though with each punch he was gaining strength, you'll see how fast hulk gets stronger .

and there is one other things that the writers forget, HULKS LEG MUSCLES! how are the writers forgetting that hulk jumps around the world like its hop scotch game, and has even reached space ? this may not seem much but in a fight this is very advantageous. Has thor aver been able to do this

THIS is very fun, you are really good at this

#14 Posted by 80sBaby (1343 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@80sBaby said:

This thread should be good. I don't know if Thor can beat Hulk with an adamantium hammer. Killemall should've given him a brick, instead. Marvel bricks are Skyfather level. LOL

And for that statement alone , you are hereby banned from my thread :)

If you insist on posting more stuffs on Hulk's favour, you will be charged $5 dollars for each sentence :p

So i have spoken

LOL

I think he can, also Thor can control lightning to some extent without his hammer.

The way i see it, Thor is just as strong Hulk , most likely faster (not leagues and bounds faster but still a little faster), has skills on his side, has a kicka$$ hammer (and hammers are awesome), and a little lightning if things get too complicated :)

Thats probably my opening argument :)

Banned?? But there was gonna be popcorn! POPCORN!!!!!!

#15 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sBaby: don't worry, i officially unbann you , no one should be cheated out of their popcorn

#16 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Thor.

#17 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: Where is this from?

#18 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant: incredible hulk guide, oh and this debate is just between you killemall and me :)

#19 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20171 posts) - - Show Bio

So many good Hulk feats here....

#20 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek: thanks

#21 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20171 posts) - - Show Bio

No problem you deserve it.

#22 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek said:

So many good Hulk feats here....

There honestly are way more feats than what has been shown here, i am assuming TheAcidSkull is going to bring up Hulk 300 too, where Hulk fighting the entire avengers, including Thor. He just gets under-estimated in comicvine.

@TheAcidSkull: While i think you slightly misunderstood what i said, I have no reasont to believe Hulk cant KO thor , the thing however is Thor should be able to do KO Hulk first or avoid getting hit by Hulk entirely (which i will post below).

So first, regarding durability to Durok, he's pretty durable. So here's Mighty Thor 191 where Durok fights Thor and beats Thor.

Thor has also shown the ability to control weather without his hammer

So what this can be used to do, is bring in rain, hail and wind to effectively reduce the visibility to 0, Hulk wont be able to hit Thor if he cant see him :)

Furtheremore, here's another instance where Thor uses lightning without his hammer (Thor: Blood Oath 04)

Note (trying my best not to mis-intereprate the scans) Hercules was neither KOed nor severely injured during the fight, and i put Hulk just as durable a Hercules if not more, that being said the reason i showed the scan is it shows Thor's ability to use lightning even when cornered. Also this fight, the scan if you will, you can see Thor saying: The Weather be to me as your arms are to you, which clearly indicated he is capable of weather manipulation, even if he does not have the hammer.

Now while we are at Thor's strength, although Hulk could eventually ouverpower him, he is by every means just as strong as Hulk.

Here's a scan, which states Thor is capable of bench-pressing a small planet

Furtheremore, here's another instance where Thor uses lightning without his hammer (Thor: Blood Oath 04)

Here you can see Thor lift a 50 floor building.

The way i see it:

1. Thor is just as strong and durable as hulk, and starts much stronger than him.

2. Thor has lightning manipulation which is a massive advantage.

3. Thor has weather manipulation which can effectively reduce the visibility to 0

So i see Thor as having obvious advantages over Hulk and as such he should be able to finish the fight as soon as possible. If one lightning cant do it, maybe use another one. Eventually Hulk will fall too.

#23 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall:

While i think you slightly misunderstood what i said, I have no reasont to believe Hulk cant KO thor , the thing however is Thor should be able to do KO Hulk first or avoid getting hit by Hulk entirely (which i will post below).
So first, regarding durability to Durok, he's pretty durable. So here's Mighty Thor 191 where Durok fights Thor and beats Thor.




well this does answer my question, so yeah , pretty impressive :), but still i wonder weather durok is just as or more durable than the hulk, because the hulk has tanked serious blows before, and i'm not talking about world war hulk, Here is an example is showed earlier ( i know this is proffesor hulk, but nothing suggest that he is more durable than the hulk, if anything,prof hulks powers do not become stronger with anger)

Here you can see Thor lift a 50 floor building.

while this is very impressive, hulk has also done amazing lifting feats, as i posted before, which includes

stronest
Hulk holding a mountain

so i see no reason why hulk couldn't be very quickly surpass thor , saying as how that he in a calm state lifts a falling 150 billion ton mountain using leverage.

Furtheremore, here's another instance where Thor uses lightning without his hammer (Thor: Blood Oath 04)




Note (trying my best not to mis-intereprate the scans) Hercules was neither KOed nor severely injured during the fight, and i put Hulk just as durable a Hercules if not more, that being said the reason i showed the scan is it shows Thor's ability to use lightning even when cornered. Also this fight, the scan if you will, you can see Thor saying: The Weather be to me as your arms are to you, which clearly indicated he is capable of weather manipulation, even if he does not have the hammer.

as you said yourself , this argument can be used against you, i see that Thor can manipulate lighting quite easily , however he failed to Ko herc , who is just as durable as hulk, however hulks durability increases, so when hulk does not get KO'd by the first lighting , he will be much harder to Ko the second time, and so on.

Here's a scan, which states Thor is capable of bench-pressing a small planet

there is no doubt that thor could do that , but why can't hulk, what makes you think hulk couldn't do that , if he is able to overpower sufficient power to move the planet, than why can't he do that?

planet
HULK planet

hulk has preformed numerous feats that suggest that at a base, he is quite powerful and strong , he was even able to match two Avengers teams during a prolonged period of time even though Hulk was gradually weaker due to a physical separation from Banner(Incredible #321-322), and lets not forget the fact that hulk was able to send concussive energy through dimensions after clashing with ironclad

Hulk Vs ironclad
The way i see it:
1. Thor is just as strong and durable as hulk, and starts much stronger than him.

not mush stronger, thor is of course more powerful at first, however, hulk quickly gain strength. besides the fact that hulk has been classed 100 tons he has done amazing feats at a calm state, like lifting a mountain( which i listed above). Besides, Both Thor and hulk a class 100 tons, so i wouldn't say thor starts that much stronger

2. Thor has lightning manipulation which is a massive advantage.

yes it is a big advantage, but thor usually ignores his powers and brawls, but even if he did not ,hulks leg muscles combined with his super punch is is gonna do a lot of damage. It's the first thing they teach you in box, that when you have powerful legs , and a huge mass, your punch will be much harder , and though hulk is not that bright , he is not stupid, he knows how to use his powers

3. Thor has weather manipulation which can effectively reduce the visibility to 0

considering thors arrogance i doubt he will play smart , when itcomes to the hulk thor has an urge to prove he is superior so i son't know weather he will use this ability in a fight with the hulk

So i see Thor as having obvious advantages over Hulk and as such he should be able to finish the fight as soon as possible. If one lightning cant do it, maybe use another one. Eventually Hulk will fall too.

you have to acknowledge that after one lighting bolt, hulks durability will increase and it will be harder for thor to KO him, and it will become harder and harder as the fight goes on , so unless Thor can one-shot hulk( which i really doubt ), hulk is going to win the way i see it

You are really good at this, i having a hard time keeping up :)

#24 Posted by Bane_of_sith (2796 posts) - - Show Bio

Get him skull!! Hulk smash!!

#25 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull said:

well this does answer my question, so yeah , pretty impressive :), but still i wonder weather durok is just as or more durable than the hulk, because the hulk has tanked serious blows before, and i'm not talking about world war hulk, Here is an example is showed earlier ( i know this is proffesor hulk, but nothing suggest that he is more durable than the hulk, if anything,prof hulks powers do not become stronger with anger)

Yes Durok was made to me extremely strong (and durability sort of comes with it), while i have no doubt Durok was just a durable a Hulk, if not more, in base state, this can be later resolved via voting :).

At this point i would try and elaborate my arguments and look for things that give Thor the edge.

while this is very impressive, hulk has also done amazing lifting feats, as i posted before, which includes

stronest
Hulk holding a mountain

so i see no reason why hulk couldn't be very quickly surpass thor , saying as how that he in a calm state lifts a falling 150 billion ton mountain using leverage.

While moving tectonic plate is an impressive feat, that my no means is a hulk at base strength, nor is it actually a lifting feat. We know how pissed off Hulk was when Illumaniti tricked him to be BFRed into space.

While the second scans from Secret Wars, Hulk himself says he was bracing the mountain then outright lifting it. Although, i cant take anything away from how impressive it is.

If you notice my scan, Thor isnt bracing, but outright lifting the said building. Which is 50 floor tall and massive on the side.

Also i am not claiming Thor is stronger than Hulk, quite the contrary, i am claiming Thor is stronger than hulk in base, where i just have to show he is significantly stronger than a 100 tonner, which the scan would stand to reason (a normal 2 floor house with 4 rooms weight about 605 tons, http://seattletimes.com/html/asktheexpert/2002122968_homehay19.html) and the building you can see has 12 rooms in each floor and has 50 floors, which would put the house at around 45,375 tons (which is quite a big leap from an avearge 100 tonner i would think).

So as far as i see it, Thor does start significantly stronger than Hulk to being with.

Also i do not agree Hulk can quickly surpass Thor in terms of strength

After about an hour of being locked together, neither Hulk nor Thor won the contest, which shows Hulk strength doesnt actually increase as fast as one would expect. Like the scans you have shown Hulk does get stronger, and more durable, we do not know exactly at what speed. Given the fact that , when directly confronted with Thor for 1 hour he couldnt still overtake Thor in strength that gives Thor enough time to play with.

as you said yourself , this argument can be used against you, i see that Thor can manipulate lighting quite easily , however he failed to Ko herc , who is just as durable as hulk, however hulks durability increases, so when hulk does not get KO'd by the first lighting , he will be much harder to Ko the second time, and so on.

Thor not KOing hercules has to do with plot than anything else. The reason Thor and Hercules fought during Blood Oath 04 was because Thor wanted Hercules to give up his magic pig (i didnt write the issue :p).

While the underlined part is true, the same would be true for Thor's lightning. He can increase the intensity of the lightning he commands, from not being able to KO hercules , to being able to outright kill Durok, to being able to harm Surtur and Chaos King. While Hulk can increase his durability, Thor can increase his intensity on the said lightning.

Also note that given weather manipulation, Hulk is not even going to be able to see Thor, which makes it harder for Hulk to fight back .

the remaining part i am not addressing individually because ( i am lazy and i have to go out for about an hr).

The point was not to show Thor is stronger, but to show Thor is just as strong. Given the versatility Thor has he doesnt have to match Hulk in a purely strength contest (which i dont think will pan out well for Thor anyways)

While the part where you pointed Thor is arrogant and not likely to use weather manipulation is a little faulty. While thats how Thor vs Hulk has always gone, we are debating both character fighting to their abilities , using skill of intelligence they have demonstrated. While fighting hulk he doesnt show a lot of skill, he does when he is fighting guys much stronger than himself, that would be Urock , Kurse, Mangog and the Destroyer Armor, some of his foes that he faces quite often.

So while Thor is fighting smart, Hulk will have problem seeing Thor, let alone tagging him, Thor can use lightning to affect Hulk. While Hulk's strength increases , Thor can increase the intensity of his lightning. Eventually Thor would win.

If however, Thor choose to engage in meele, thor is fast enough to hit hulk twice for ever hit received, but again with that I think Thor would eventually lose. Therefore, my whole argument has been towards avoiding a direct H2H with Hulk and try and use advantage of his weather/ lightning manipulation.

#26 Posted by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

I might have to steal some of these scans if you two don't mind :)

#27 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall:

While moving tectonic plate is an impressive feat, that my no means is a hulk at base strength, nor is it actually a lifting feat. We know how pissed off Hulk was when Illumaniti tricked him to be BFRed into space.
While the second scans from Secret Wars, Hulk himself says he was bracing the mountain then outright lifting it. Although, i cant take anything away from how impressive it is.
If you notice my scan, Thor isnt bracing, but outright lifting the said building. Which is 50 floor tall and massive on the side.
Also i am not claiming Thor is stronger than Hulk, quite the contrary, i am claiming Thor is stronger than hulk in base, where i just have to show he is significantly stronger than a 100 tonner, which the scan would stand to reason (a normal 2 floor house with 4 rooms weight about 605 tons, http://seattletimes.com/html/asktheexpert/2002122968_homehay19.html) and the building you can see has 12 rooms in each floor and has 50 floors, which would put the house at around 45,375 tons (which is quite a big leap from an avearge 100 tonner i would think).
So as far as i see it, Thor does start significantly stronger than Hulk to being with.
Also i do not agree Hulk can quickly surpass Thor in terms of strength

After about an hour of being locked together, neither Hulk nor Thor won the contest, which shows Hulk strength doesnt actually increase as fast as one would expect. Like the scans you have shown Hulk does get stronger, and more durable, we do not know exactly at what speed. Given the fact that , when directly confronted with Thor for 1 hour he couldnt still overtake Thor in strength that gives Thor enough time to play with

Yes, Thor does start stronger , but not by too much, and as for the scan above, where Thor and hulk a locked in a hold for an hour, in knew that would have been posted sooner or later , so i started thinking about something, If for example you and i are locked in a hold, and you are lets say stronger than me, shouldn't you at first be wining? i mean if your stronger at first you should be winning the test of strength, while i slowly pick up the pace and start matching you and then surpass you. My personal though is that the writer wanted these to characters to be seen as equals. I might not be making to much sense, but think about it, Thor should have been winning at first, how were they a match if hulk had to increase his strength and thor was spouse to be far greater in strength Than hulk was at a base. That's all i have to say, i just don't see how it makes sense. And as for hulks durability, hulk has survives much greater damage than lighting , for example he survived a hit form galactus , so how would Thors lightning quickly KO him? and also i have a question , can Thor increase the power of his lighting without mjolnir? is there any occasion when thor did this? oh and by asking this i'm not implying that thor's lighting is not already powerful without his hammer , i know that it is quite formidable , formidable enough to Kill durok, so don't get the wrong idea :)

Thor not KOing hercules has to do with plot than anything else. The reason Thor and Hercules fought during Blood Oath 04 was because Thor wanted Hercules to give up his magic pig (i didnt write the issue :p).

i understand that, but i don't see why hercs durability couldn't resist thors lightning , i don't think it's PIS, since herc seemed in a lot of pain when the lightning hit him :)

While the underlined part is true, the same would be true for Thor's lightning. He can increase the intensity of the lightning he commands, from not being able to KO hercules , to being able to outright kill Durok, to being able to harm Surtur and Chaos King. While Hulk can increase his durability, Thor can increase his intensity on the said lightning.

Again , i ask , can thor increase the magnitude of his lightning without his hammer?

Also note that given weather manipulation, Hulk is not even going to be able to see Thor, which makes it harder for Hulk to fight back

you have a point there, but you are forgetting something, hulks thunderclap! hulk thunderclap is quite formidable, even at a base, and when he gets angry , his clap becomes even greater. i'm sure he can clear the fog quite easily with one or two thunderclaps

While the part where you pointed Thor is arrogant and not likely to use weather manipulation is a little faulty. While thats how Thor vs Hulk has always gone, we are debating both character fighting to their abilities , using skill of intelligence they have demonstrated. While fighting hulk he doesnt show a lot of skill, he does when he is fighting guys much stronger than himself, that would be Urock , Kurse, Mangog and the Destroyer Armor, some of his foes that he faces quite often.

look man, i'm just saying what thor usually does during his fight with hulk, it could be possible that thor wants to prove he is tougher than hulk, and against mangoog and the others , he is already aware that they are more powerful that he is , however this is just a guess, and i have no evidence to support this other than the fact that he fights hulk head on, i guess it was a little faulty of me. But like i said before, even thor uses weather manipulation, he is more likely gonna create a fog to blind hulk, and it could be cleared with husk thunderclap .

If however, Thor choose to engage in meele, thor is fast enough to hit hulk twice for ever hit received, but again with that I think Thor would eventually lose. Therefore, my whole argument has been towards avoiding a direct H2H with Hulk and try and use advantage of his weather/ lightning manipulation.

while this is true, thor is more skilled than hulk, hulk has the advantage of savagery . His durability, healing factor and stamina will keep him going for a long time, each second makes the hulk stronger, so i would say that eventually hulk would come on top. furthermore , despite thors obvious skill advantage, hulk is no slacker either , he is quite well coordinated for someone like him, here is an example

the scan i'm about to post is form the very same guide book form which you posted the previous scan , this should clear up some stuff, that scan says it all,

Hope you reply soon , i'm having blast, you are a great debater :D

#28 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@guttridgeb: if your refereeing to me ,go ahead, there all yours :)

#29 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@guttridgeb said:

I might have to steal some of these scans if you two don't mind :)

Why would we mind, i am sure TheAcidSkull wont mind, why would i :)

@TheAcidSkull: will be back with rebuttal tomorrow and its always fun to argue about 2 character , with people when they debate nicely and apparently have respect for both character. I love Hulk as a character and respect him, and you are sure showing respect for Thor :)

#30 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@TheAcidSkull: will be back with rebuttal tomorrow and its always fun to argue about 2 character , with people when they debate nicely and apparently have respect for both character. I love Hulk as a character and respect him, and you are sure showing respect for Thor :)

i'll be waiting , and thor deserves respect, he has been mistreated by marvel for a long time , LONG LIVE THOR THE THUNDERER , though i might be a little late tomorrow , got some work to do:)

your a great debtor and i am learning a lot by this , hope this isn't the only time we debate

#31 Posted by Lvenger (19373 posts) - - Show Bio

More debates need to be like this. Though that is because it is between two skilled debaters. It's a shame the battle forums can't be more like this though perhaps this is the way to improve the battle forums.

#32 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: how are we doing so far ? your a very skilled debtor , i would like to know your feedback

#33 Posted by Lvenger (19373 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull: Well this is an excellent debate. Proper rebuttals with reasoning and scans as evidence, no fanboyism, just cold hard arguments for each side. What more could one ask for? And I'm flatterred about the skilled debator comment. It's a pleasure to receive it from someone as skilled as yourself.

#34 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

@TheAcidSkull: Well this is an excellent debate. Proper rebuttals with reasoning and scans as evidence, no fanboyism, just cold hard arguments for each side. What more could one ask for? And I'm flatterred about the skilled debator comment. It's a pleasure to receive it from someone as skilled as yourself.

thank you too for the compliment, and you deserve every bit of respect as you can get, you are very skilled :)

#35 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: oh and i made some grammar corrections in my post to make it more understandable ,:)

#36 Posted by BigCimmerian (8129 posts) - - Show Bio

Can I post only one scan? :)

#37 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian: No, i know you want to help out but this is between killemall and me , sorry , please, i know how tempting it is to jump in a debate :)

#38 Posted by BigCimmerian (8129 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull said:

@BigCimmerian: No, i know you want to help out but this is between killemall and me , sorry , please, i know how tempting it is to jump in a debate :)

I.MUST.RESIST.

#39 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@BigCimmerian: LOL, dude, i am already having a hard time debating with this guy, adding another thor expert to the equation would be an overkill on ME!!

#40 Posted by RIKR2 (10829 posts) - - Show Bio

O_o !!!! AWESOME battle!!! reading both argument is been a pleasant!!

#41 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@RIKR2 said:

O_o !!!! AWESOME battle!!! reading both argument is been a pleasant!!

Hey its only just started :p, this is going to be a long debate

@TheAcidSkull said:

@BigCimmerian: LOL, dude, i am already having a hard time debating with this guy, adding another thor expert to the equation would be an overkill on ME!!

I know a hulk expert ;) 80sBaby , call him up mate :)

#42 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: i know, there are only two hulk experts on the site, fithchild and 90sbaby, but this is beween you and me, if a loose, i loose , at least i lost fighting on mu own :)

@RIKR2 said:

O_o !!!! AWESOME battle!!! reading both argument is been a pleasant!!

thanks man, this is only the begging , this gonna be a long, long battle :)

#43 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull said:

@jeanroygrant: incredible hulk guide, oh and this debate is just between you killemall and me :)

Thanks, lol okay. :D

#44 Posted by Lvenger (19373 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't wait to see more of this debate unfold!

#45 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheAcidSkull said:

Yes, Thor does start stronger , but not by too much, and as for the scan above, where Thor and hulk a locked in a hold for an hour, in knew that would have been posted sooner or later , so i started thinking about something, If for example you and i are locked in a hold, and you are lets say stronger than me, shouldn't you at first be wining? i mean if your stronger at first you should be winning the test of strength, while i slowly pick up the pace and start matching you and then surpass you. My personal though is that the writer wanted these to characters to be seen as equals. I might not be making to much sense, but think about it, Thor should have been winning at first, how were they a match if hulk had to increase his strength and thor was spouse to be far greater in strength Than hulk was at a base. That's all i have to say, i just don't see how it makes sense. And as for hulks durability, hulk has survives much greater damage than lighting , for example he survived a hit form galactus , so how would Thors lightning quickly KO him? and also i have a question , can Thor increase the power of his lighting without mjolnir? is there any occasion when thor did this? oh and by asking this i'm not implying that thor's lighting is not already powerful without his hammer , i know that it is quite formidable , formidable enough to Kill durok, so don't get the wrong idea :)

Excellent rebuttal.

I think the stalemate was Marvel way of saying well they are equally matched. We can look at all 14 fights between Thor and Hulk, and despite the fight getting drag a lot longer, neither Hulk nor Thor has had any significant upperhand.

The galactus blast Hulk withstood is from Secret War and this is a hungry Galactus, who was forced to feed on his own Ship, thats a very week Galactus. Another thing is i dont think anyone would argue if Galactus was actually trying to kill Hulk he would have easily done so. I mean when not starving, he has destroyed tripple solar system with but one blast, i think saying Hulk could tank blast Galactus's blast is a little iffy.

Also like i already showed Hulk has been KOed by Thor's lightning before. Another instance comes from Thor Hammer and Snew , where Thor has one shotted Hulk before.

Also i feel obliged to mention, Hulk was suppose to be the Grey Hulk rather than savage hulk in the issue, the painter for some reason painted him as savage hulk for whatever reason, so while this by no means is an outright proof to show Thor can one shot him, but shows his hits are extremely powerful.

Also note Thor has his hammer in the scan, which he doesnt have in this fight. The hammer lets Thor do two things,

1. Fly.

2. Channel his godly energy

While i am certain Thor cant fly without his hammer (contrary to the depiction during Seige after killing Sentry and one depiction during Contest of Champion where we are not even sure if he flew), the power of his hits should not diminish anyway simply because he is using an adamantium hammer.

Now the question regarding increasing the power of lightning is a good one, no there isnt an outright proof he can increase the tempo but he can obviously control the power of the blast, raging from simply hurting hercules, to KOing Hulk, to outright killing Durok a guy whom he cant normally even hurt speaks volume.

i understand that, but i don't see why hercs durability couldn't resist thors lightning , i don't think it's PIS, since herc seemed in a lot of pain when the lightning hit him :)

I think you misunderstood me again, i am not saying Hercules not getting KOed by lightning being a PIS, but what i am saying is to KO Hercules was never Thor's intention. Thor comes to Olympus with warrior Three to get the magic pig from Hercules, and they wanted to force the pig away, its 4 vs 1 hercules , they could gang up on him. Thats not what they wanted. Also in this fight Hercules was drunk, so the whole fight was Thor trying to convince Hercules to give him the pig willingly rather than trying to KO or kill him.

you have a point there, but you are forgetting something, hulks thunderclap! hulk thunderclap is quite formidable, even at a base, and when he gets angry , his clap becomes even greater. i'm sure he can clear the fog quite easily with one or two thunderclaps

While thunder-clap is formidal, it really is Thor is just too durable to get knocked out by it.

Firstly, here's a fight of Thor vs Drax the Destroyer with Power Gem and survives a supernova with no damage (and saying Thunderclap is going to produce more energy than a supernova).

The fight actually ends in Thor 469 after he makes Drax cough-out the power gem and finally got beaten by Thanos few issues later, a very popular scan which tends to come up in most of thanos battles.

And if you are interested to see how strong / power Drax is with power gem, the following scans would probably help you.

Here you can see Champion with Quantum Band, destroy a planet

The same Champion (with Quantum Band) fights and is doing pretty good against Surfer, before Drax come in, and in a very calm mood, with absolutely no difficulty, one shots him

For some unknown reason the last scan looks big, i dont know why, god bless comicvine :p

Apart from that, since you brough up Galactus instance, here's a similar feat, of Thor tanking and not KOed by a blast from a celestial.

This scan isnt any more conclusive than Hulk surviving a blast from Galactus, because lets face it, if Galactus or the celestial were really trying to KO/ Kill Hulk they would certainly have done so, either they were holding back, or being jobbed.

Should the need arise i am also willing to show scans of Thor surviving being pressed under a score of planets (i.e. 20 planets).

I think the durability speaks for itself.

From the way i see it, we have more evidence to show Thor can KO hulk, via lightining, or lightning enchanced blast from his hammer (the adamanitum mace he has ) , while with weather manipulation Hulk is going to have a very hard time even seeing him, so tagging him personally with a hit is going to be difficult. The only option Hulk has left is thunderclap, which Thor is too strong to get knocked over.

Back to you mate, its really fun =)

#46 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall:

oh dear, don't know how i'm getting out of this one

but , i'll never give up

Also like i already showed Hulk has been KOed by Thor's lightning before. Another instance comes from Thor Hammer and Snew , where Thor has one shotted Hulk before.

Also i feel obliged to mention, Hulk was suppose to be the Grey Hulk rather than savage hulk in the issue, the painter for some reason painted him as savage hulk for whatever reason, so while this by no means is an outright proof to show Thor can one shot him, but shows his hits are extremely powerful.

if it was meant to be gray hulk, then thor would indeed one shot him, however, i agree that one-shotting the hulk is not something thats going to happen( well unless you're a celestial or something lol). the grey hulk durability is far weaker that the savage greens , but form the shading and the colors, it still does look like the grey persona, despite not having the suit, and besides, the cans you provided does not prove hulk was one-shotted , it could have been a long battle which resulted in thor winning, besides we still don't know what version of the hulk it was, so it's still a bit hard to say. and on a side note, thank you for letting me know that it was supposed to be grey hulk, now thats what i call good sportsmanship :)

Now the question regarding increasing the power of lightning is a good one, no there isnt an outright proof he can increase the tempo but he can obviously control the power of the blast, raging from simply hurting hercules, to KOing Hulk, to outright killing Durok a guy whom he cant normally even hurt speaks volume.

yes, thors lighting is formidable , however, i'm sure hulk will be able to tank one or to lighting since he was able to take a weakened Galcatus blast, and with each blow hulk will become more durable, and since we have no evidence that thor cannot increase his lightings power without his hammer, the i think hulk will take it :).

I think you misunderstood me again, i am not saying Hercules not getting KOed by lightning being a PIS, but what i am saying is to KO Hercules was never Thor's intention. Thor comes to Olympus with warrior Three to get the magic pig from Hercules, and they wanted to force the pig away, its 4 vs 1 hercules , they could gang up on him. Thats not what they wanted. Also in this fight Hercules was drunk, so the whole fight was Thor trying to convince Hercules to give him the pig willingly rather than trying to KO or kill him.

oh, well i get it now, however, the lighting did do some serous damage, the ground was flat out burned into a hole, so maybe thor got fed up and wanted to Even KO herc, but this is still questionable, i'm just speculating

While thunder-clap is formidal, it really is Thor is just too durable to get knocked out by it.
Firstly, here's a fight of Thor vs Drax the Destroyer with Power Gem and survives a supernova with no damage (and saying Thunderclap is going to produce more energy than a supernova).

Never imlpyed that the thunder clap would KO Thor, you borough an example where thor could use weather manipulation ,you suggested that thor could blind hulk, i assumed you were talking about a fog so i said that hulk could easily clear it with his thunder clap. However, besides that hulk can use his thunder clap to throw thor of his feet, which is somewhat an advantage.


This scan isnt any more conclusive than Hulk surviving a blast from Galactus, because lets face it, if Galactus or the celestial were really trying to KO/ Kill Hulk they would certainly have done so, either they were holding back, or being jobbed.
Should the need arise i am also willing to show scans of Thor surviving being pressed under a score of planets (i.e. 20 planets).

while i agree on the galctus part , i don't see how thors lighting could KO hulk, seeing as how he survives much much worse( even recently shrugging off PF emma frosts blast when she had 1/2 of the power)

Hulk has also been known to execute the most amazing and extraordinary feats ever.

Now i know how most user respond to these kind of feats , the call it PIS/CIS, but there mainly to reasons why these feats are valis

first of all , hulk has been doing such accomplished form time to time , so it's not right to call it PIS, if this happened only once, then people would have a point

secondly, the hulk is a walking nexus and obtains his powers form another demension which allows him to achieve such feats , here is silver future and hulks suture self explaining this

From the way i see it, we have more evidence to show Thor can KO hulk, via lightining,

i provided the scans above which specify that hulk is not going ton be KO'd by thors lighting

a) hulk has survived much worse

b) we don't have proof that thor can increase the lightning powers so hulk will become more durable with each punch, stike ect

or lightning enchanced blast from his hammer (the adamanitum mace he has )

Hulk has had a history with encountering adamantium, and while wolverine can price him , a mace/hammer is different. Hulks has survived and cracked Pure adamantium with his back before , has also squizzed secondary adamantium with his hands, has broken adamantium netting, and has deafeated a dog of war which is capable of crushing adamantuim in 7.3 seconds

, while with weather manipulation Hulk is going to have a very hard time even seeing him, so tagging him personally with a hit is going to be difficult.

as i said before, hulk can clear the fog by his thunderclap, thats was what i was trying to say in begging i didn't mean thor would be KO'd by the thunder clap, but thor can't blind this way, and hulk will be able to throw thor off his feat.

I see that hulk can answer anything thor can dish out without his hammer, and as i said before, hulks savagery and and strength, durability, stamina can keep him going long enough for him to beat thor

your a tough fighter, it's becoming harder for me to counteract your arguments each time :)

#47 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

Can't wait to see more of this debate unfold!

already up, though it's sorta weak form my other posts

#48 Posted by 80sBaby (1343 posts) - - Show Bio

This is pretty good. I have no clue who to vote for so keep it up, guys!

#49 Posted by Killemall (18559 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sBaby said:

This is pretty good. I have no clue who to vote for so keep it up, guys!

You dont need to have a clue yet :p the debate isnt over, although most of the things have been discussed wont be too long before votes are opened.

@TheAcidSkull: Sorry was away for the day, will make sure i reply by tomorrow (night). So far its been a pleasure debating with you, :)

#50 Posted by YourNeighborhoodComicGeek (20171 posts) - - Show Bio

This is great. Love the debates. Keep em' coming!