Thor and The Hulk vs Orion and Big Barda

@wwq7: Firstly how would you know if Hulk had a powerup in the scan i posted.

And if you really want people to debate with you serious stop putting out of context scans, Hulk was KOEd in only 3 of the above scans:

1. Where Namor beat him under water

2. Ghost Rider when he took the oxygen out when his hellfire did not work

3. The one with Rhino is genuine.

Rest are all out of context and Hulk did not even lose to one of them.

Thing has never beaten Hulk, you can post as much out of context scan as you like.

Nice debating with you mate, you just lost ALL you credibility with all those out of context scans ..

I said he could of had one for all I know and there's no way to tell how powerful the blasts are.

They might be out of context mate, but If he is struggling to beat them and actually get's KO'd by some of them, how is he going to handle someone who is equal in strength to Wonder Woman, durable enough to hold the weight of a continent on her shoulders, can fly, BFR and teleport with her Mega-Rod which was powerful enough to KO Superman.

I know Thing has never beat Hulk, I meant he was not out classed at all, but you can clearly see that he was holding his own and was fast enough to hit him. Barda is faster than him and skilled enough to have a long fight with Wonder Woman and beat Wonder Woman One Million with ease.

Hulk has been beaten by people far weaker than Barda as evidenced in the scans, so he has no chance of beating her.

@theacidskull: I did see your scans mate. They were great, but I saw nothing that suggests he can beat Barda. She's knockout Superman with one shot, so Hulk, who is just a slow brute and who can barely beat the Thing is supposed to be her how?

Also, did you not see my scans of Hulk getting knocked out by people weaker than Barda?

Firstly that was a genuine question, how would know if i post a scan , and whether Hulk there was amped.

I asked because you said you trust hulk performed the feat i listed but wanted to see the scan to see if he and an amp.

Secondly, we also dont know how powerful her blast are, we however know during Byrne era Superman was no were as durable as he later is shown to be.

1. The whole idea of putting in out of context scans, when a character has progressively becomes stronger throughout his history shows how bad debating that is.

2. There is context to every of the instance he gets KOed on, Rhino gorge him with the horn, sharp horn, and he starts to bleed, Ghost Rider did not KO him because of his blast, but because he has to breath, Namor scan is genuine but that being said he was grown stronger over the period.

3. Barda is not equal to Wonder Woman in strength.

4. Hulk has done that in secret wars 2, sholdered a 50 billion tons mountain

I even showed you Hulk holding tetonic plate.

Hulk has also smashed a rock twice the size of the earth.

Hulk has Thor in his team so BFR is out of question, not to mention Thor can BFR the whole team into a different dimension, or better yet to Atum's homeworld (core of the sun) Barda and Orion (likely) would be fried to crisp, Thor was unharmed there.

Also you are overusing old Superman scan, knowing it was on Byrne era, in response Drax one shotted a planet buster, even Superman has never done that, and Hulk , the weakest hulk was holding his own against that.

Wanna do better, Avengers 04 the new Hyperion physically pushed 2 planet and prevented for a short time from 2 universes colliding, and survived the collision of 2 universes with a scratch, and Hulk was fighiting him on equal ground.

See there are insanely high showing for both people.

Thing has always been overwhelemed against Hulk when they have fought, while few fights have been stopped, there have been instances where Hulk nearly killed Thing.

Not to mention Thing himself has pretty awesome feats so dont go on lowballing people again.

Barda is faster than him? perhaps.. not sure speed advantage there though

More skilled? totally

long fight with WW? yeah and Hulk has fought Thor 17 times, all prolongued combat, we ignore that?

And why lie about a feat that was soundly debunk in this very thread, that Barda did not beat WW 1 million on her own accord but with a particle canon.

And thats why i refused to take you seriouslybecause you are lowballing hulk, using his lowestest showing and comparing with Barda's highest showing.

@killemall: I never saw you as a Hulk expert lol.

Though one small thing, with the mountain feat it was later revealed that he was bracing the weight not actually lifting it.

@killemall: LOL If you wanna talk about old scans then mate, your scans are old ones of Hulk too, so should we not use them?

I don't know if he had an amp, I couldn't see how powerful the blast was. Magneto has also tanked blasts from Galactus and Phoenix and he is not as durable as Hulk.

Barda's Mega-Rod is a new god weapon. It is supposed to be powerful like Thor's Mjolnir hammer: they are both gods. They are not going to have weak weapons with puny powers. I see no reason to believe Barda could not KO Superman with the full force of her god weapon. Also, Barda has also stunned Superman with her Mega-Rod in the other scan I posted.

If Barda is not equal to Wonder Woman in strength, how did she have a long fight with her and hurt Diana with her blows?

I don't think Thor would BFR them and kill them: he wouldn't want to kill them, as he is an honourable fighter, but Barda will kill. She was trained to by Darkseid.

Barda did beat WW One Million and there is no evidence to show that WW One Million even landed a shot on her. She only used the cannon because WW One Million was no challenge at all to Barda.

Well he does have a lot of low showings. LOL He is just a brute with super strength. He is not powerful enough to beat someone who outclasses him in just about everything, possibly even strength at Hulk's base level and Thing has consistently held his own against Hulk, so it proves that he can't beat Barda.

I think Hulk is durable enough to stay in the battle until he can get angrier thus stronger than Barda

@izbighulk: not if he get's bfr'd

How ???

Boom Tube or Mega Rod, most likely mega rod....

Why not? The scans from a very long time ago have been posted to show how strong Hulk is. Why can't I use them to show how weak he is?

Barda has knocked Superman and stunned a sun-dipped Superman so she hasn't just done it once. Hulk has constantly and consistently lost to people inferior to Barda, several times and he doesn't have Barda's additional abilities. You haven't refuted any of my scans mate, so why should I do the same for you? If Hulk is not as durable as Superman, then Barda can one-shot him. She can teleport with her Mega-Rod, so she could just teleport behind him and use her superior fighting skills to take him down and since Hulk struggles to fight the Thing who is not as fast or strong as Barda, he stands no chance at all. I could say the same mate, you are ignoring the scans I posted and I have to repeat everything over and over because people are not looking at the evidence I have posted and just saying Hulk will beat Barda when she has so many advantages over him and yes, she could just BFR him if she wanted.

Thor would just bring him back, and Hulk doesnt constantly lose to people inferior to Brada quite the opposite he either stalemates or wins.

I am really not, i am more into cosmic being, rather than Hulk. But when you read through Silver Surfer and Thor you have Hulk appear in most of them.

I have also read all Hulk issues after 2008, but that leaves a good 50 years of comics to be read.

Lastly, i said Hulk was soldering the mountain because he wasnt lifting them.

I did not say i dislike you using those scans because they were old, its still canon. My point was Hulk has progressively grown stronger, and even in classic days does have good feats, i dislike the fact that you are using only his lowest showing.

So its not that the scans are old, its that those are is lowest showings.

I keep hearing how Magneto has tanked Galactus blast, i have nearly read every Galactus issue there is in 616 reality, after all cosmic marvel is my speciality, and have never seen that yet.

So can you show me a scan of Magneto tanking Galactus's blast, or perhaps the issue, even the story arc would suffice, or if you just explain the situation on how Galactus arrive i should be able to find the issue.

Secondly, there are plenty of other feats , durability feats that i posted, why only go throught 2.

And same way, Superman has struggled with live wire too, who later couldnt knock out Batgirl, no one is pointing that one now see..

Yeah so?

Thor, BRB their hammer are enchanted by Odin magic and being far more powerful then New Gods, yet Thor hasnt had a lot of success knocking out Hulk, apart from 2 instances that i know of.

Thanos has done exactly that to Tyrant, Thor has done that to Zeus, Spiderman has done that to Angrir (Thing with a asgardian hammer), Spiderwoman has done that to Chthon (an elder god)

And we know full well they are NOT equal in strength or power, in fact they are in a whole different league with the others.

Its neither in character for either of them to BFR either, and besides Thor has killed people before, Asgardian regularly kill, they even boost about how many Frost Giants and Trolls they have slayed.

There is no evidence to the bolded part, as Bane already pointed out in the earlier part of the thread.

And she only KOed her after the particle canon, so i dont see how thats a win.

And Hulk has beaten Sentry....

He has a lot of low showing, more so in the earlier history than current, he hasnt jobbed after 2008 that i know of, apart from very recent issue against Attuma.

He is a brute, a rather nifty brute when he has to be, a brute who if doesnt get knocked out soon gets stronger and stronger as the fight goes on.

At even at base level Hulk has held his own against Thor, Silver Surfer, Abomination and lots of other. Besides Hulk gets stronger pretty quickly and heroes sheldom lose outright in any fight against a hero.

And if one is to be unbaised, Hulk has matched every of Barda's big showing and more, he has better strength showing, Barda isnt really a LOT faster than Hulk anyways, and Hulk has an advantage, he gets progressively stronger and doesnt tire, while the other is not true for Barda.

It could go either way.

Hulk has combat speed,endless stamina and infinite strength,and he isn't so dumb he knows when to strike like the sneak attack on Dormammu.

@killemall: Well I am debating that Hulk loses mate, so I'm not gonna post his good feats am I?

Here is the only scan I could find of it.

Well Barda has KO'd Superman so it suggests that her Mega-Rod is more powerful than Mjolnir.

Barda can lift well over 100 tons and would have beaten Wonder Woman in their fight if had not been for the fact that Diana had to fly in what was supposed to be a fair fight, so they're definitely around the same strength level.

There was also no evidence to show that Barda was even harmed by WW One Million. If she is supposed to be an overpowered version of Wonder Woman why is Barda smacking her down and getting her on one knee?

If Barda feels she cannot beat them, she will resort to BFRing them like she did to Lobo.

Barda doesn't tire because she is an immortal and it appears that if we go by your reasoning, Hulk only has the strength advantage. I still think he's not stronger unless he becomes enraged, but lets say he is stronger. Barda is still faster, a better fighter, can fly, teleport and BFR with her Mega-Rod, gravitational powers and she has the power to knock out Superman with one shot. Hulk really doesn't stand a chance.

1. Just because his power levels have changed doesn't mean he won't lose in a fight to people who are weaker than him. Thing is too fast for Hulk, so he'd still get some good shots in and Barda is stronger than him and a better fighter, so I don't see how she would lose even if he has gotten more powerful.

2. Was he enraged when he deflected it? The scans I posted were posted for anyone to refute.

3. Cyclops lasers may not have been a full force blast, just a weak one.

Here are scans of Hulk struggling to beat Wolverine and Thing and it looks like Thing's hits are hurting him. He does win in the end, which is a good feat, but the fact that someone as weak as Thing is able to hurt him doesn't do his durability any good.

@wwq7:

So your entire argument is based off low-end showings and ignoring all else, specifically, the greater amount of high-end feats that are clearly shown to be more consistent with the character?

Don't act like any other can character has never missed the mark or been tagged by characters who are slower than them. It happens to everyone more often then people want to admit. Hulk is not a special case.

With things like this, It doesn't make a character slow or weak. if writers allowed characters to act according to their abilities 100 percent of the time there wouldn't be as many long and interesting stories to read.

Saying a character is slow and weak, such as Hulk, because other characters like Wolverine and Spider-man radiate jobber aura, is not a valid arguement.

Wolverine and Spider-man gets hits on everyone. Half the people that Superman, the Flash, and any other of the super-fast characters fight are beneath them yet we see that they fail to strike them down and gets tagged by them.

Jobber: Someone who makes someone else look good.

Jobber aura: Jobber aura is emitted by a character who is often the center of the plot or protected by the plot, allowing them to seem more powerful than they ordinarily are, and easily contend with and/or defeat much more powerful foes.

One oft-cited example is the Animated Teen Titans Robin, with feats such as defeating Cinderblock (a huge stone supervillain) with a quick series of blows when the entire team had previously been struggling against him. Of course, this "jobber aura" is only invoked against certain disliked characters. Board favorites are never considered to have a jobber aura.

Examples of severe cases of jobbing:

1) Wolverine owning Thor in a melee fight

2) Spiderman defeating Firelord

3) Captain America knocking out Hulk

4) Black Panther getting Silver Surfer into an armbar and overpowering him.

If you argue based entirely off of low-showing then you should assume that all comic characters are equally slow, weak, and lack any superpowers at all.

Going by such an illogical standard, how can you possibly argue for one characters victory over another?

The answer is..... you CAN'T!

You can't rightly argue a victory for one character over another based enirely on low showings, PIS(Plot Induced Stupididity), and jobber aura. All of which happens to everyone.

Because everyone has these things happen to them, we don't base character power-levels off of them.

And we try to average a characters' showings because a character's most high end feats are usually done due to certain circumstances that don't happen all time and the most low-end showings are outnumbered by other feats that greatly discredit them.

I already gave you the feats Hulk has done when he wasn't under PIS or jobber aura. Ignoring Thor's his good showing is and only acknoolweding his low showings and PIS moments is not how you have a fair and balanced debate.

And as I mentioned earlier, Superman and Superman-level people gets jobbed by less powerful characters all time.

If we go by only the low showings of DC powerhouses, Then we can assume that theit power-level is not any better than the average street-level type characters. The same goes for any comic book character, really.

Street level people have evaded superman-level characters blows, got hits on them, and even beat them up.

Cosmic enitites have jobbed to street levelers. Are you saying they are weak as well? Let's not have a double standard.

If we go by what we see for EVERY comic characters low showings, then we could say none of them are even superpowered.

@theacidskull: Do you think Hulk is stronger than Wonder Woman? Because Barda is equal in strength to Diana, as she can hang in there in a fight with her and hurt her with her blows. I've also heard that she can augment her strength with her motherbox.

He's not always angry.

You can't prove that it was a full blast, he could have been toying with Hulk.

I only found the fight scans, nothing else. Could you post the scan where it says he was weakened?

LOL More like the other way around. She is faster, she can fly, teleport, BFR with her Mega-Rod, use a blast strong enough to knock Superman out and stun him, get WW One Million on one knee who is supposed to be an overpowered version of Diana.

Barda BFR's Hulk, Thor can't do anything about it since he's busy fighting Orion. Barda and Orion double team ftw.

@theacidskull:No one has refuted all those scans I posted of Barda like stunning a sundipped Superman. I keep having to tell you that same thing over and over because you refuse to see that Barda would stomp Thor.

Barda's Advantages:

Equal in strength to Wonder Woman
Durable enough to take shots off WW and once held the weight of a continent on her shoulders.

Teleportation

Gravitational Manipulation

Apokoliptian armor which makes her even stronger

Flight

Fighting skills which rival Diana's

Speed

Blasts that can knockout Superman

BFR

Hulk's Advantages

Strength

Durability

Also, Herc doesn't have Barda's powers, just strength and durability like Hulk.

Hulk loses.

Team 1 takes this easily. Indestructible hulk has a lot of endurance and seems stronger than the Incredible Hulk - just my opinion. Thor can take barda and hulk takes Orion. Great team up too :)

Barda is so great at BFR'ing she decided to BFR herself from any relevance in comics.

And yet she still has the feats and skills to beat Hulk.

And yet Hulk still has the feats to beat Barda.

Feats showing his strength, but Barda has that and all those other advantages I posted, so he doesn't really stand a chance.

Teleportation wouldnt work as thor would just bring him back, Hulk has resisted Gravitational manipulation before and her blast wont do much as he survived a blast from a weakened Galactus which would still be stronger than Barda's.

Thor may not be able to bring him back: Barda will teleport him far away, so Thor may not be able to find him and Barda could also follow Thor by using her Mega-Rod to track him down, so he wouldn't have a chance to get him back. There is no way to tell how powerful the blast from Galactus was Barda knocked out Superman with her blast, so that shows how powerful she is and that Hulk does not have a chance against Barda. All he has is his strength and durability.

Barda has all these advantages that are going to ensure her victory over Hulk,

Equal in strength to Wonder Woman

Durable enough to take shots off WW and once held the weight of a continent on her shoulders.

Teleportation

Gravitational Manipulation

Apokoliptian armor which makes her even stronger

Flight

Immortality

Fighting skills which rival Diana's

Speed

Blasts that can knockout Superman

BFR

If Orion and Big Barda can BFR Thor or Hulk then they can take the win. If not then over time, Barda will get taken down being the weak link and Orion will be left to beat Thor and Hulk. Either one he could beat on his own but together would be too much.

@lvenger: And Barda is the weak link because?

Physically she's nowhere near Orion, Thor or Hulk's level. If she doesn't BFR one of them she's going to be taken down by Thor or Hulk eventually. @killemall: and @theacidskull: have shown why your argument for Barda has its flaws so I don't need to add anything else.

She's physically on Wonder Woman's level, so I doubt Hulk will be taking her down. There's no flaws in my argument. I've posted scans, evidence and all the advantages she has over Hulk that show he stands no chance. Knocking out Superman with one blast and taking down Wonder Woman One Million who is an overpowered version of the real WW and getting her on one knee doesn't show you she can destroy Hulk?

1. You haven't proved she's on Wonder Woman's level at all I'm afraid.
2. You've posted scans that suit your argument, lowball Hulk and take Barda's higher showings without looking at the context of the issue's events.
3. That was Bryne's version of Superman who was a lot weaker. In later issues he tanks Orion's Astro Force with ease which is a lot more powerful than Barda's attack. Tell me do the later more consistent feats get overshadowed by your one showing of Barda taking down a weaker version of Superman
4. Lol she never beat Wonder Woman 1 million and you know it because you don't post the scans that show Barda actually beating her. Could it be that Barda didn't actually beat her? I think so
5. Killemall and TheAcidSkull have proven why your argument doesn't stand up to analysis. Without BFR, Barda goes down to Hulk or Thor who then overpower Orion. She's not as powerful as you make her out to be.

1. She has fought with Wonder Woman and Diana had to use her flight in what was supposed to be a fair fight, so that shows that she could not have defeated her without her flight.

2. Hulk regularly gets thrown around in fights, so it wasn't lowballing and the scans clearly show that he was knocked out by people who aren't even on Barda's level. Do you think Thing, Rhino and Dazzler are as powerful as Barda?

3. That doesn't matter. Barda's weapon is a new god weapon. Superman getting knocked out by a god weapon is easy to fathom and she has stunned a sundipped Superman shown in the scan I posted, so she has consistently gotten the upper-hand on him.

4. She did beat her... and rather easily. I've posted all the scans there are of the fight. Does Barda look injured at all in any of the scans? and why is Wonder Woman One Million getting smacked down by Barda?

5. Not really. They are great debaters and presented impressive scans and arguments, but they could only post scans of his strength and durability because that's all he's got. Whereas Barda's got all these abilities in her arsenal.

Equal in strength to Wonder Woman

Durable enough to take shots off WW and once held the weight of a continent on her shoulders.

Teleportation

Gravitational Manipulation

Apokoliptian armor which makes her even stronger

Flight

Fighting skills which rival Diana's

Speed

Blasts that can knockout Superman

BFR

@killemall said:

If number of scan is all you want i can do that too :) Just tell me how many scans you want i can flood this thread with scans, as i have over 1500 hulk comics with me, how many did you want to see??

Its not based on how many scans that are posted we decide who should win a fight but rather based on what the character power and attributes are and how what his feats are.

Since you asked here are few good feats from Hulk, also i have in my last reply named you a bunch of Hulk feats, you want scans ask me, i can post it.

Hulk tanking a blast from Galactus (Point Blank 05)

Gallery

This set of scans aren't cannon. I don't remember where they're from but that's Peter Parker as Hulk. 2nd to last scan proves that when he says "May love you. I'm sorry, I'm sorry...."

This the correct answer.

Oh, and the same Superman Barda KO'd was also taken out by a gas station explosion. And he wasn't "sun-dipped" so much as a minor amp in King of the World. Sun-dipped implies he was arond the same levels he was during OWAW's end.

It seems some posters only accept certain characters highest feats and average out their opponents. Bad form.

Barda's Mega-Rod is a god weapon, so you can't call it PIS that she was able to KO him, especially since she stunned him with it when had his amp and he seemed extremely powerful because the Justice League were unable to stop him until Barda stunned him. Getting KO'd by a gas station explosion is PIS.

It seem to me that some posters don't want to see Hulk lose to Barda, so they ignore the scans I post and get mad when I ignore there's. The woman is basically Wonder Woman with a god weapon. Look at the facts. I can't believe I have to keep posting this just because people don't want to accept that Hulk will lose against Barda.

Barda's Advantages

Equal in strength to Wonder Woman

Durable enough to take shots off WW and once held the weight of a continent on her shoulders.

Teleportation

Immortality

Gravitational Manipulation

Apokoliptian armor which makes her even stronger

Flight

Fighting skills which rival Diana's

Speed

Blasts that can knockout Superman

BFR

Hulk's Advantages

Strength

Durability

She's got 9 extra abilities than Hulk. How can he win? Namor was able hit him so hard he reverted back to Banner. Barda is stronger than Namor, so she can do the same.

"God weapon" is a meaningless term regarding power levels. Mjolnir is also a "god weapon," but it's much more powerful than the Megarod.

Why is it PIS? Because he's survived more powerful attacks and survived? Well then, Hulk's also beaten more powerful people than Barda so any lower showing MUST be PIS, per your own logic.

As for the rest, the only thing that Barda has which could beat Hulk is BFR. Everything else is something that Hulk has overcome before and at higher levels than what she can bring.

@80sbaby: Not really. She was chosen by Darkseid to be the leader of the Female Furies, so it stands to reason that her Mega-Rod will be extemely powerful and capable of knocking Superman out if used at its full force. When she stunned Superman it wasn't at its full force and was still able to stun him. The Mega-Rod is more powerful than Mjolnir; The only ability Mjolnir has that I consider to be powerful is the God blast and Thor takes ages to use that ability, whereas Barda's is instant and quick enough to knock Superman out.

Its PIS because a gas station explosion is not powerful enough to knock Superman out. LOL Getting hit by a new god weapon is a lot different.

The person who is using all those extra abilities is someone who is as strong as Wonder Woman and is a new god so he won't be able to hang in there with Barda. The Thing is fast enough to land shots on him, so Barda who is stronger and faster than him, along with having 9 extra abilities will annihilate Hulk and turn him back to Banner like Namor did.

Barda has defeated Knockout who has been able to hurt Superboy and Supergirl.

thor and hulk hulk beats barta thor rivals orion until hulk finishes barda then they team on orion easly overpower him.

orion would be doing good to beat either of them there is no way he beats both or even puts up a decent fight.

@lvenger: This thing has gotten way out of hand since my last post. Sheesh... you'd think there was money riding on this or somthing! I think in terms of brute power, power versitility, and combat speed, Orion and Thor are team MVP's here. Barda vs Hulk, toss a coin fellas. I've already said my piece on what either her or Orion's Mother Boxes could do as far as that goes. This is really a potential slobberknocker, and I sincerely hope this is taking place WELL away from any populated area!

Anything they can do Thor can do better

Yes he can

Wait he just agreed with me...

Is what I thought