Thor and Loki vs. Dante and Vergil

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DarkRaiden

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Funny how people say both Thor and Loki solo when they're not fast enough to even TOUCH Dante, let alone beat the two of them singlehandedly.

Jmarshmallow

Loki....the guy who redirects radio waves and is faster than lightning can't hit Dante? Seriously?

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TraGiC_JoHNSoN

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Dante beat Blitz, a demon that has the power and speed of lightning. Virgil's yamato is said to be able to cut through anything and lets him teleport in battle.

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Cerberus369616

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@jmarshmallow said:

Funny how people say both Thor and Loki solo when they're not fast enough to even TOUCH Dante, let alone beat the two of them singlehandedly.

Jmarshmallow

Loki....the guy who redirects radio waves and is faster than lightning can't hit Dante? Seriously?

Your go to to say Loki is fast enough for Dante, a massively Hypersonic Being with time manipulation abilities, that regularly dodges lightning speed opponents and has a technique for instant movement....is being faster than Lightning? Seriously?

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden said:

@jmarshmallow said:

Funny how people say both Thor and Loki solo when they're not fast enough to even TOUCH Dante, let alone beat the two of them singlehandedly.

Jmarshmallow

Loki....the guy who redirects radio waves and is faster than lightning can't hit Dante? Seriously?

Your go to to say Loki is fast enough for Dante, a massively Hypersonic Being with time manipulation abilities, that regularly dodges lightning speed opponents and has a technique for instant movement....is being faster than Lightning? Seriously?

Dante has never shown lightning speed. Ever.

Loki also has much better time manipulation than Dante and is immune to such.

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Jmarshmallow

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@darkraiden: At the age of 17 he was able to throw his own sword fast enough to reach re-entry speed, which is mach 25, and then outraced said sword all the while killing demons along the way. He can toy with a lightning timer, speedblitz high-power demons, and has at LEAST one FTL feat at his most powerful.

And on top of ALL of that, Alastor (one of Dante's weapons) specifically states that it gives the wielder "lightning speed."

He's EASILY faster than both Loki and Thor.

Jmarshmallow

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Cerberus369616

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#56  Edited By Cerberus369616

@cerberus369616 said:
@darkraiden said:

@jmarshmallow said:

Funny how people say both Thor and Loki solo when they're not fast enough to even TOUCH Dante, let alone beat the two of them singlehandedly.

Jmarshmallow

Loki....the guy who redirects radio waves and is faster than lightning can't hit Dante? Seriously?

Your go to to say Loki is fast enough for Dante, a massively Hypersonic Being with time manipulation abilities, that regularly dodges lightning speed opponents and has a technique for instant movement....is being faster than Lightning? Seriously?

Dante has never shown lightning speed. Ever.

Loki also has much better time manipulation than Dante and is immune to such.

@jmarshmallow already took care of it but...

Loading Video...

Here is one Video from the cutscene of him keeping up with the Blitz, while outside of Devil Trigger and still playing around as he tends to do.

Loading Video...

here is a video of Nero and Dante fighting Blitz's in-game and you can specifically see that while he uses Trickster he can out speed the Blitz (Air Trick itself is an emulation of Trick-up , Vergil's Teleportation technique, except instead of teleporting Dante uses Pure Speed to look like he is dissapearing and reappearing)

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden said:

@cerberus369616 said:
@darkraiden said:

@jmarshmallow said:

Funny how people say both Thor and Loki solo when they're not fast enough to even TOUCH Dante, let alone beat the two of them singlehandedly.

Jmarshmallow

Loki....the guy who redirects radio waves and is faster than lightning can't hit Dante? Seriously?

Your go to to say Loki is fast enough for Dante, a massively Hypersonic Being with time manipulation abilities, that regularly dodges lightning speed opponents and has a technique for instant movement....is being faster than Lightning? Seriously?

Dante has never shown lightning speed. Ever.

Loki also has much better time manipulation than Dante and is immune to such.

@jmarshmallow already took care of it but...

Loading Video...

Here is one Video from the cutscene of him keeping up with the Blitz, while outside of Devil Trigger and still playing around as he tends to do.

Loading Video...

here is a video of Nero and Dante fighting Blitz's in-game and you can specifically see that while he uses Trickster he can out speed the Blitz (Air Trick itself is an emulation of Trick-up , Vergil's Teleportation technique, except instead of teleporting Dante uses Pure Speed to look like he is dissapearing and reappearing)

Problem is Blitz hasn't shown lightning speed either. Just because you have lightning powers, doesn't make you the speed of lightning (see Storm, Static, Laxus, Electro, etc.). And reappearing and disappearing is what Wolverine and Black Panther can do. Nowhere near lightning speed.

@darkraiden: At the age of 17 he was able to throw his own sword fast enough to reach re-entry speed, which is mach 25, and then outraced said sword all the while killing demons along the way. He can toy with a lightning timer, speedblitz high-power demons, and has at LEAST one FTL feat at his most powerful.

And on top of ALL of that, Alastor (one of Dante's weapons) specifically states that it gives the wielder "lightning speed."

He's EASILY faster than both Loki and Thor.

Jmarshmallow

Video Game descriptions don't matter. Especially not such broad terms as "lightning speed". I mean Hulk was said to be lightning speed before, but everyone knows he doesn't go anywhere near that fast. Mach 25 (which Dante can't even reach tbh) is really, really slow compared to lightning btw. And has 0 FTL feats. I've seen this song and dance, Dante isn't close to lightning speed and more than likely doesn't make it out of double digit mach speeds.

And Loki redirected radio waves aka lightspeed.

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Apocalypse3

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Thor and Loki handily.

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Jmarshmallow

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Video Game descriptions don't matter.

Yes, they do. They're canon parts of the game, and have to be treated as such.

Especially not such broad terms as "lightning speed". I mean Hulk was said to be lightning speed before, but everyone knows he doesn't go anywhere near that fast.

I'm not arguing about Hulk, I'm arguing about Dante.

Mach 25 (which Dante can't even reach tbh)

Except that he did....

is really, really slow compared to lightning btw.

Dante reacts faster than lightning here:

Loading Video...

Notice that first the light from the lightning, then before the lightning hits the ground they've already covered the distance between them and drawn their weapons. That's a faster than lightning feat, right there for your viewing pleasure.

And has 0 FTL feats. I've seen this song and dance, Dante isn't close to lightning speed and more than likely doesn't make it out of double digit mach speeds.

Dante is past lightning speed, as shown above. And while I'm not sure if he's quite lightspeed, he's definitely faster than Loki and Thor.

And Loki redirected radio waves aka lightspeed.

Scans?

Jmarshmallow

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DarkRaiden

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#60  Edited By DarkRaiden

@darkraiden said:

Video Game descriptions don't matter.

Yes, they do. They're canon parts of the game, and have to be treated as such.

Especially not such broad terms as "lightning speed". I mean Hulk was said to be lightning speed before, but everyone knows he doesn't go anywhere near that fast.

I'm not arguing about Hulk, I'm arguing about Dante.

Mach 25 (which Dante can't even reach tbh)

Except that he did....

is really, really slow compared to lightning btw.

Dante reacts faster than lightning here:

Loading Video...

Notice that first the light from the lightning, then before the lightning hits the ground they've already covered the distance between them and drawn their weapons. That's a faster than lightning feat, right there for your viewing pleasure.

And has 0 FTL feats. I've seen this song and dance, Dante isn't close to lightning speed and more than likely doesn't make it out of double digit mach speeds.

Dante is past lightning speed, as shown above. And while I'm not sure if he's quite lightspeed, he's definitely faster than Loki and Thor.

And Loki redirected radio waves aka lightspeed.

Scans?

Jmarshmallow

That's not even close to reacting faster than Lightning. For one, we have no idea when he actually cleared that distance (certainly not if he cleared it by the time the lightning bolt actually hit the ground), and two he didn't clear anywhere close to the distance that the lightning did.

He. Has. No. Lightning. Speed. Feats. Ever.

Loki radio waves:

No Caption Provided

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TraGiC_JoHNSoN

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Loading Video...

Did you watch the video or get any of the hints? He enters as lightning from the storm clouds. He was teleporting around and all you see is lightning. His name literally means lightning. Glass is floating when he wields Alastor.

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Cerberus369616

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@darkraiden: So let me get this straight. Turning into Lightning and then moving around like lightning...is not proof of being lightning speed. I was always taught "If it looks like , sounds like, acts like , smells like and feels like X it is X." I guess anytime Storm of Thor summons lightning it actually isn't Lightning because it's just "called" lightning, we don't have scans of them giving us the exact speed of their Lightning so clearly it isn't /sarcasm. The difference between Blitz and the people you list is that those people don't turn into Lightning, they just use it.

Loading Video...

Dante isn't just dissapearing from field of vision with Trick Up,that is what BP and Logan do, he is moving as fast as teleportation which is what Vergil has.

Loading Video...

You See Dante moving at Re-entry speeds in a cut scene so...wtf are you talking about when you say he can't move at the Mach 25?

I mean I honestly don't know what I would have to give you to make you think Dante has the capabilities that pretty much only you deny for ...no reason other than not liking him.

But how about you show me some scans of Loki being anywhere nears as fast as you are claiming because redirecting Radio Waves is vauges as hell. Did he catch the Radio waves and move them? Know where they were coming from and redirect them with something like...I dunno, a fucking Radio transmitter since that is something normal humans do? Or maybe he used magic to do it because I dunno if you know this but Having Magic effect Light speed,similar to how having Lightning powers doesn't make you Lightning speed( but turning into Lightning ala Blitz does) things doesn't make him Lightspeed. Do you have Scans of him moving Lightning fast or are you just talking out of your ass? At least I'm providing evidence for my points.

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serrure

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Loki is immune to time manipulation, and can cast a spell to keep others from being affected by time manipulation. Loki solos

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NighThunder

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Thor solo

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Cerberus369616

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@jmarshmallow said:

@darkraiden said:

Video Game descriptions don't matter.

Yes, they do. They're canon parts of the game, and have to be treated as such.

Especially not such broad terms as "lightning speed". I mean Hulk was said to be lightning speed before, but everyone knows he doesn't go anywhere near that fast.

I'm not arguing about Hulk, I'm arguing about Dante.

Mach 25 (which Dante can't even reach tbh)

Except that he did....

is really, really slow compared to lightning btw.

Dante reacts faster than lightning here:

Loading Video...

Notice that first the light from the lightning, then before the lightning hits the ground they've already covered the distance between them and drawn their weapons. That's a faster than lightning feat, right there for your viewing pleasure.

And has 0 FTL feats. I've seen this song and dance, Dante isn't close to lightning speed and more than likely doesn't make it out of double digit mach speeds.

Dante is past lightning speed, as shown above. And while I'm not sure if he's quite lightspeed, he's definitely faster than Loki and Thor.

And Loki redirected radio waves aka lightspeed.

Scans?

Jmarshmallow

That's not even close to reacting faster than Lightning. For one, we have no idea when he actually cleared that distance (certainly not if he cleared it by the time the lightning bolt actually hit the ground), and two he didn't clear anywhere close to the distance that the lightning did.

He. Has. No. Lightning. Speed. Feats. Ever.

Loki radio waves:

No Caption Provided

Didn't see your post while I was making Mine, but he is clearly using his Magic to redirect the waves. He knows they are sending the message so he has a heads up first of all and he uses magic to do it which doesn't require him to be Faster than Light. Your scan is more questionable than anything else here.

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DarkRaiden

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#66  Edited By DarkRaiden

@cerberus369616 said:

@darkraiden: So let me get this straight. Turning into Lightning and then moving around like lightning...is not proof of being lightning speed. I was always taught "If it looks like , sounds like, acts like , smells like and feels like X it is X." I guess anytime Storm of Thor summons lightning it actually isn't Lightning because it's just "called" lightning, we don't have scans of them giving us the exact speed of their Lightning so clearly it isn't /sarcasm. The difference between Blitz and the people you list is that those people don't turn into Lightning, they just use it.

Loading Video...

Dante isn't just dissapearing from field of vision with Trick Up,that is what BP and Logan do, he is moving as fast as teleportation which is what Vergil has.

Loading Video...

You See Dante moving at Re-entry speeds in a cut scene so...wtf are you talking about when you say he can't move at the Mach 25?

I mean I honestly don't know what I would have to give you to make you think Dante has the capabilities that pretty much only you deny for ...no reason other than not liking him.

But how about you show me some scans of Loki being anywhere nears as fast as you are claiming because redirecting Radio Waves is vauges as hell. Did he catch the Radio waves and move them? Know where they were coming from and redirect them with something like...I dunno, a fucking Radio transmitter since that is something normal humans do? Or maybe he used magic to do it because I dunno if you know this but Having Magic effect Light speed,similar to how having Lightning powers doesn't make you Lightning speed( but turning into Lightning ala Blitz does) things doesn't make him Lightspeed. Do you have Scans of him moving Lightning fast or are you just talking out of your ass? At least I'm providing evidence for my points.

It's impossible to move at teleportation speeds for one. BP and Wolverine do the EXACT SAME THING you're showing me. Especially if you mean moving as fast as a teleporter, which literally all street levelers have done.

Two, turning into lightning means nothing. 99% of people who turn into lightning aren't as fast as lightning and have no speed feats to say they are. Storm's lightning is natural lightning and comes from the clouds, something that's already been measured. But if she shoots lightning from her hands or eyes, no it's not as fast as natural lightning.

Nothing in that video is moving at mach 25. A bullet outpaced him. Think about that.

Moves at the speed of thought:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiSpeed00aJIM85.jpg

speed of thought again:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiSpeed00JIM88.jpg

magic at the speed of thought:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiSpeed02Avengers1.jpg

speed of thought faster than lightning:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiSpeed06272.jpg

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Jmarshmallow

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That's not even close to reacting faster than Lightning. For one, we have no idea when he actually cleared that distance (certainly not if he cleared it by the time the lightning bolt actually hit the ground), and two he didn't clear anywhere close to the distance that the lightning did.

He. Has. No. Lightning. Speed. Feats. Ever.

Loki radio waves:

No Caption Provided

It definitely is faster than lightning. When the lightning flashes in the sky, Dante and Modeus are a fair distance away from one another, and their swords aren't drawn.

By the time the lightning hits the ground, they've covered the distance between them and drawn their weapons. That means that they can move, react, draw their weapons, and clash all before the lightning hits the ground, and he does it pretty casually honestly.

LOL that isn't a reaction feat at all. He just jams the never-ending radio waves with his MENTAL POWERS, and he does it while they're all going in a straight line.

That would be like someone shooting a never-ending wave of machine gun fire in exactly the same straight line, and me using a net to catch the bullets as they come.

Jmarshmallow

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comicace3

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#68  Edited By comicace3

Loki has a chance. Thor can't solo.

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slimj87d

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Classic Thor and Loki are on a different level than current or recent versions. Which ones are we using here?

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden said:

That's not even close to reacting faster than Lightning. For one, we have no idea when he actually cleared that distance (certainly not if he cleared it by the time the lightning bolt actually hit the ground), and two he didn't clear anywhere close to the distance that the lightning did.

He. Has. No. Lightning. Speed. Feats. Ever.

Loki radio waves:

No Caption Provided

It definitely is faster than lightning. When the lightning flashes in the sky, Dante and Modeus are a fair distance away from one another, and their swords aren't drawn.

By the time the lightning hits the ground, they've covered the distance between them and drawn their weapons. That means that they can move, react, draw their weapons, and clash all before the lightning hits the ground, and he does it pretty casually honestly.

LOL that isn't a reaction feat at all. He just jams the never-ending radio waves with his MENTAL POWERS, and he does it while they're all going in a straight line.

That would be like someone shooting a never-ending wave of machine gun fire in exactly the same straight line, and me using a net to catch the bullets as they come.

Jmarshmallow

It's clearly not faster than lightning. The distance from the cloud to the ground>>>>>>.the distance Dante and dude cover. By a long shot.

And yeah that is a reaction feat, he literally stops radio waves from reaching the Fantastic 4 and redirects them to Thor/Donald Blake. You are aware that radio waves move faster than light and the fact that he can stop them BEFORE they clear the distance from the radio tower to the Baxter Building, puts him very close to light speed right?

And yeah his mental powers is his reaction.....reaction is linked with your mental prowess/thoughts. Everyone knows that.

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Cerberus369616

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#71  Edited By Cerberus369616

@cerberus369616 said:

@darkraiden: So let me get this straight. Turning into Lightning and then moving around like lightning...is not proof of being lightning speed. I was always taught "If it looks like , sounds like, acts like , smells like and feels like X it is X." I guess anytime Storm of Thor summons lightning it actually isn't Lightning because it's just "called" lightning, we don't have scans of them giving us the exact speed of their Lightning so clearly it isn't /sarcasm. The difference between Blitz and the people you list is that those people don't turn into Lightning, they just use it.

Loading Video...

Dante isn't just dissapearing from field of vision with Trick Up,that is what BP and Logan do, he is moving as fast as teleportation which is what Vergil has.

Loading Video...

You See Dante moving at Re-entry speeds in a cut scene so...wtf are you talking about when you say he can't move at the Mach 25?

I mean I honestly don't know what I would have to give you to make you think Dante has the capabilities that pretty much only you deny for ...no reason other than not liking him.

But how about you show me some scans of Loki being anywhere nears as fast as you are claiming because redirecting Radio Waves is vauges as hell. Did he catch the Radio waves and move them? Know where they were coming from and redirect them with something like...I dunno, a fucking Radio transmitter since that is something normal humans do? Or maybe he used magic to do it because I dunno if you know this but Having Magic effect Light speed,similar to how having Lightning powers doesn't make you Lightning speed( but turning into Lightning ala Blitz does) things doesn't make him Lightspeed. Do you have Scans of him moving Lightning fast or are you just talking out of your ass? At least I'm providing evidence for my points.

It's impossible to move at teleportation speeds for one. BP and Wolverine do the EXACT SAME THING you're showing me. Especially if you mean moving as fast as a teleporter, which literally all street levelers have done.

People use the Superman moving as fast as Jason Todd's teleporter from Pluto to Another Planet as an example of Supes speed regularly so clearly moving near or at teleportation speeds is accepted across multiple media.

Two, turning into lightning means nothing. 99% of people who turn into lightning aren't as fast as lightning and have no speed feats to say they are. Storm's lightning is natural lightning and comes from the clouds, something that's already been measured. But if she shoots lightning from her hands or eyes, no it's not as fast as natural lightning.

It's been measured in real life, but I haven't seen it measured in a Comic so who is to say her natural lightning is as fast as our world's lightning or that there isn't some strange problem with that lightning because she used powers to summon it.

^That is you, that is how dumb you sound. We take pictures and visual evidence on faith because it makes sense to do so. You say lots of people turn into lightning but aren;t lightning speed but you offer no examples. I think I'm gonna take the visual evidence over your word.

Nothing in that video is moving at mach 25. A bullet outpaced him. Think about that.

Velocity is relative for one. A bullet fired in the same direction from Dante Moving forwards at great speed is now traveling at Dante's Speed + Bullet speed there fore it is going to move faster than him in the short term, that is why his bullet is able to push the sword faster than re-entry speed because the bullet is moving faster than it normally would. Additionally Dante doesn't fire any more bullets after he shoots his sword to Re-entry speeds. He tehn catches up to said sword and you c an clearly see the effect's of reentry speed on his hand. THis is what I mean by "VISUAL" evidence.

Moves at the speed of thought:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiSpeed00aJIM85.jpg

Using the Rainbow Bridge which is an interdimensional transportation Device used to move between the nine realms. Not Loki moving under his own power.

speed of thought again:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiSpeed00JIM88.jpg

Using the Rainbow Bridge which is an interdimensional transportation Device used to move between the nine realms. Not Loki moving under his own power, as above.

magic at the speed of thought:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiSpeed02Avengers1.jpg

Hyperbole, nothing is moving fast enough to prove it was moving at the speed of thought.

speed of thought faster than lightning:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiSpeed06272.jpg

Statment was by another person, not even the the narrator so It's a questionable statemnt. Certainly more so that you doubting in game descriptions of items.

This is Loki being beaten by Antman and fucking trapdoor. Where is his FTL speed there?
This is Loki being beaten by Antman and fucking trapdoor. Where is his FTL speed there?

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Jmarshmallow

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It's clearly not faster than lightning. The distance from the cloud to the ground>>>>>>.the distance Dante and dude cover. By a long shot.

Not the point.

The point is the lightning had already begun to strike the ground, and before it finishes, Dante and Modeus are already locked in combat. That's a faster than lightning feat.

And yeah that is a reaction feat, he literally stops radio waves from reaching the Fantastic 4 and redirects them to Thor/Donald Blake. You are aware that radio waves move faster than light and the fact that he can stop them BEFORE they clear the distance from the radio tower to the Baxter Building, puts him very close to light speed right?

Radio waves move at the speed of light, not faster than light.

And as I already mentioned, that's not a reaction feat, nor is it useful in combat. Loki uses magic to redirect radio waves that are moving in a continuous, straight line. He doesn't react to them, nor does he do anything besides use magic. Again, its like catching a continuous line of machine gun fire with a net. It's not a reaction feat, it's just you moving the net in front of a never-ending wave of bullets.

It's not useful in combat, so it has no place here.

And yeah his mental powers is his reaction.....reaction is linked with your mental prowess/thoughts. Everyone knows that.

That's not how it works, and you know it. That was magic, nothing more.

Jmarshmallow

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden said:

It's clearly not faster than lightning. The distance from the cloud to the ground>>>>>>.the distance Dante and dude cover. By a long shot.

Not the point.

The point is the lightning had already begun to strike the ground, and before it finishes, Dante and Modeus are already locked in combat. That's a faster than lightning feat.

And yeah that is a reaction feat, he literally stops radio waves from reaching the Fantastic 4 and redirects them to Thor/Donald Blake. You are aware that radio waves move faster than light and the fact that he can stop them BEFORE they clear the distance from the radio tower to the Baxter Building, puts him very close to light speed right?

Radio waves move at the speed of light, not faster than light.

And as I already mentioned, that's not a reaction feat, nor is it useful in combat. Loki uses magic to redirect radio waves that are moving in a continuous, straight line. He doesn't react to them, nor does he do anything besides use magic. Again, its like catching a continuous line of machine gun fire with a net. It's not a reaction feat, it's just you moving the net in front of a never-ending wave of bullets.

It's not useful in combat, so it has no place here.

And yeah his mental powers is his reaction.....reaction is linked with your mental prowess/thoughts. Everyone knows that.

That's not how it works, and you know it. That was magic, nothing more.

Jmarshmallow

1. No...that's not faster than Lightning at all. If you mean they moved before lightning hit the ground...welcome to Nightcrawler level speed

2. He literally intercepted them before they reached their target. That's a reaction feat.

3. It's always how it works. It's been shown that you can't magic things you can't see or react to. If he couldn't react to radio waves, he wouldn't be able to redirect them. Period.

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden said:

It's impossible to move at teleportation speeds for one. BP and Wolverine do the EXACT SAME THING you're showing me. Especially if you mean moving as fast as a teleporter, which literally all street levelers have done.

People use the Superman moving as fast as Jason Todd's teleporter from Pluto to Another Planet as an example of Supes speed regularly so clearly moving near or at teleportation speeds is accepted across multiple media.

Two, turning into lightning means nothing. 99% of people who turn into lightning aren't as fast as lightning and have no speed feats to say they are. Storm's lightning is natural lightning and comes from the clouds, something that's already been measured. But if she shoots lightning from her hands or eyes, no it's not as fast as natural lightning.

It's been measured in real life, but I haven't seen it measured in a Comic so who is to say her natural lightning is as fast as our world's lightning or that there isn't some strange problem with that lightning because she used powers to summon it.

^That is you, that is how dumb you sound. We take pictures and visual evidence on faith because it makes sense to do so. You say lots of people turn into lightning but aren;t lightning speed but you offer no examples. I think I'm gonna take the visual evidence over your word.

Nothing in that video is moving at mach 25. A bullet outpaced him. Think about that.

Velocity is relative for one. A bullet fired in the same direction from Dante Moving forwards at great speed is now traveling at Dante's Speed + Bullet speed there fore it is going to move faster than him in the short term, that is why his bullet is able to push the sword faster than re-entry speed because the bullet is moving faster than it normally would. Additionally Dante doesn't fire any more bullets after he shoots his sword to Re-entry speeds. He tehn catches up to said sword and you c an clearly see the effect's of reentry speed on his hand. THis is what I mean by "VISUAL" evidence.

Moves at the speed of thought:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiSpeed00aJIM85.jpg

Using the Rainbow Bridge which is an interdimensional transportation Device used to move between the nine realms. Not Loki moving under his own power.

speed of thought again:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiSpeed00JIM88.jpg

Using the Rainbow Bridge which is an interdimensional transportation Device used to move between the nine realms. Not Loki moving under his own power, as above.

magic at the speed of thought:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiSpeed02Avengers1.jpg

Hyperbole, nothing is moving fast enough to prove it was moving at the speed of thought.

speed of thought faster than lightning:

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Loki%20Stats/LokiSpeed06272.jpg

Statment was by another person, not even the the narrator so It's a questionable statemnt. Certainly more so that you doubting in game descriptions of items.

This is Loki being beaten by Antman and fucking trapdoor. Where is his FTL speed there?
This is Loki being beaten by Antman and fucking trapdoor. Where is his FTL speed there?

1. People use Superman's thing cause he flew to a freaking planet in little to no time. The distance/time thing is impressive.

2. Storm's lightning has blocked lightspeed attacks and is generally instant. Also it's natural lightning aka as fast as real life lightning until stated otherwise.

3. Moving at re-entry speed due to gravity is not a speed feat. also we have no idea how fast he's moving but w/e.

4. Cool you don't like the scans w/e, but to lowball is just dumb. As if Flash (literally over 5000x FTL) doesn't get hit by normal people all the time. That doesn't disprove anything. Plus I can show him dodging Mjolnir, hitting Silver Surfer mid flight, and other impressive speed feats.

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Cerberus369616

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1. People use Superman's thing cause he flew to a freaking planet in little to no time. The distance/time thing is impressive.

9/10 people use it to show Supes is almost as fast as teleportation but whateves. Moving so fast you appear to teleport is impressive no matter how you slice it, soemthing BP and Wolverine aren't doing.

2. Storm's lightning has blocked lightspeed attacks and is generally instant. Also it's natural lightning aka as fast as real life lightning until stated otherwise.

So Storm's Lightning is fast enough to block lightspeed attacks and is instant? You do realise Lightspeed is > Lightning right? Are you know claiming Storm has FTL reactions or something? The point I'm making is that you are splitting hairs for....seemingly no reason other than to lowball Dante. We have no Basis for natural Lightning in the marvel universe, so based on your Logic it could be very much slower than Lightning in our universe. Alternatively we could take the feats at face value and recognize a person turning into lightning to move around is the artist implying the being is Lightning speed.

3. Moving at re-entry speed due to gravity is not a speed feat. also we have no idea how fast he's moving but w/e.

First it was "he isn't moving at reentry speed". Then it was "a bullet was moving faster than him so he can't be at reentry speed" now it's "he is moving at reentry speed but it's because of Gravity" , you sure do have a lot of reasons to doubt the feat, but I'll keep blowing those reasons out of the water, it's fun. We don;t have a guy sitting with a speed gun capturing his speed but we can clearly see he is moving faster than the speed his sword reached after being shot by a by bullet that was moving with his combined speed at the time of firing and we can clearly see the friction from the air is creating a visable effect due to the heat, ala Re entry speed. Gravity doesn't push something to reentry speed anyhow, that is called Terminal Velocity, reentry speed is just a general term at which something hits a point where the friction with the air causes visible effects of heat, gravity doesn't do that and would be a minimal help to reaching that kind of speed , the VAST majority of reaching that speed would require Dante to do the Leg work.

4. Cool you don't like the scans w/e, but to lowball is just dumb. As if Flash (literally over 5000x FTL) doesn't get hit by normal people all the time. That doesn't disprove anything. Plus I can show him dodging Mjolnir, hitting Silver Surfer mid flight, and other impressive speed feats.

Yea and I have scans of him getting tagged by stupid shit. bet you don't have scans of Dante Getting tagged by stupid shit unless he wants too. Your the one who started out trying to lowball Dante by doubting his Scans based off of nothing, I'm just returning the favor except instead of nothing I give you scans of Loki derping, something notoriously hard to find for Dante.

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#76  Edited By nickzambuto

@kangconquers said:

@nickzambuto said:

Thor is, as usual, too slow to win here. Even disregarding that, Dante is infinitely more skilled and more agile, when he actually feels like it his ability to avoid damage and dance around foes is unbelievable, so he'd probably dodge every strike Thor throws out regardless. If Thor manages to land a hit, so what, it's not as if Dante wouldn't have already healed the damage by the time he lands back on his feet. Meanwhile Thor despite his durability isn't going to stand up to Rebellion for long, or even Odin forbid, the Sparda sword.

In short, Dante would own the god of thunder. He's too slick, and too versatile. Loki and Vergil are another matter.

So Dante can heal from planet busting striking power?

Well you see, there's a few things going in Dante's favor in this regard.

  1. Thor holds back IMMENSELY against almost any mortal enemy, this is a well documented character trait and some fans claim he holds back even more than someone like Superman does. Dante isn't a mortal, but without knowledge there is no way for Thor to discern that just based on his appearance. He'll just figure Dante is another meta running around NYC.
  2. Dante's regeneration doesn't seem to have an actual limit, unless Thor's attack completely obliterates his body, he will heal.
  3. Dante's regeneration is consistently shown to heal damage just as quickly as it happens. For instance after his fight with Vergil, when Dante punched Yamato and got his hand stuck inside it, he was able to twist his hand around inside the sword and grab hold of it, without losing any fingers. This means that, even if Thor's attack is strong enough to blow his body apart, he'll be healing the damage too fast for that to happen.

It's also arguable whether Thor even has planet busting striking power in the first place. To my knowledge he has two feats of this; 1) against Beta Ray Bill, though to me it looks like they were on some tiny astroid or moon, not a planet. 2) Against Gorr, but considering Gorr is above Skyfather level the destruction of the planet can easily be attributed to him, or at least, he played a large part in it.

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1. No...that's not faster than Lightning at all. If you mean they moved before lightning hit the ground...welcome to Nightcrawler level speed

I disagree. It was clear that the lightning began to strike, and they moved before it finished.

2. He literally intercepted them before they reached their target. That's a reaction feat.

He literally used magic, not his own body, which makes it not a reaction feat.

3. It's always how it works. It's been shown that you can't magic things you can't see or react to. If he couldn't react to radio waves, he wouldn't be able to redirect them. Period.

False. Magic has no limits.

And besides, that's such an old showing it hardly holds up any weight today. That would be like Thanos getting cuffed up by policemen, or Spider-Man beating Firelord.

Jmarshmallow

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Turned into snow.

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@darkraiden said:

1. People use Superman's thing cause he flew to a freaking planet in little to no time. The distance/time thing is impressive.

9/10 people use it to show Supes is almost as fast as teleportation but whateves. Moving so fast you appear to teleport is impressive no matter how you slice it, soemthing BP and Wolverine aren't doing.

2. Storm's lightning has blocked lightspeed attacks and is generally instant. Also it's natural lightning aka as fast as real life lightning until stated otherwise.

So Storm's Lightning is fast enough to block lightspeed attacks and is instant? You do realise Lightspeed is > Lightning right? Are you know claiming Storm has FTL reactions or something? The point I'm making is that you are splitting hairs for....seemingly no reason other than to lowball Dante. We have no Basis for natural Lightning in the marvel universe, so based on your Logic it could be very much slower than Lightning in our universe. Alternatively we could take the feats at face value and recognize a person turning into lightning to move around is the artist implying the being is Lightning speed.

3. Moving at re-entry speed due to gravity is not a speed feat. also we have no idea how fast he's moving but w/e.

First it was "he isn't moving at reentry speed". Then it was "a bullet was moving faster than him so he can't be at reentry speed" now it's "he is moving at reentry speed but it's because of Gravity" , you sure do have a lot of reasons to doubt the feat, but I'll keep blowing those reasons out of the water, it's fun. We don;t have a guy sitting with a speed gun capturing his speed but we can clearly see he is moving faster than the speed his sword reached after being shot by a by bullet that was moving with his combined speed at the time of firing and we can clearly see the friction from the air is creating a visable effect due to the heat, ala Re entry speed. Gravity doesn't push something to reentry speed anyhow, that is called Terminal Velocity, reentry speed is just a general term at which something hits a point where the friction with the air causes visible effects of heat, gravity doesn't do that and would be a minimal help to reaching that kind of speed , the VAST majority of reaching that speed would require Dante to do the Leg work.

4. Cool you don't like the scans w/e, but to lowball is just dumb. As if Flash (literally over 5000x FTL) doesn't get hit by normal people all the time. That doesn't disprove anything. Plus I can show him dodging Mjolnir, hitting Silver Surfer mid flight, and other impressive speed feats.

Yea and I have scans of him getting tagged by stupid shit. bet you don't have scans of Dante Getting tagged by stupid shit unless he wants too. Your the one who started out trying to lowball Dante by doubting his Scans based off of nothing, I'm just returning the favor except instead of nothing I give you scans of Loki derping, something notoriously hard to find for Dante.

1. Teleportation's speed differs the bigger the difference. At close ranges, street levelers have all reacted and moved this fast. Same as Dante

2. Huh? All worlds are assumed to be = to ours unless something is stated different. The same way that a tree in Marvel is an f'ing tree like in the real world, so is Lightning. And my point was that she used her lightning to do fast things that can be considered even faster than natural lightning.

I'm not lowballing him at all, it's just generally people with lightning powers aren't accepted at light speed. If they were, every anime/manga/comic book character ever that fought one of these people would be lightning speed. Which is wrong and dumb.

3. I don't see anything in that video to even suggest he himself is moving fast under his own power. It's not even a feat. At most it's saying he can fall fast.

4. Dante's been tagged by normal assassins, bullets, slow attacks, etc. Not sure what you're talking about. Hell the beginning /intro of DMC3 or any time he "lets" something stab or hit him are examples.

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@darkraiden said:

1. No...that's not faster than Lightning at all. If you mean they moved before lightning hit the ground...welcome to Nightcrawler level speed

I disagree. It was clear that the lightning began to strike, and they moved before it finished.

2. He literally intercepted them before they reached their target. That's a reaction feat.

He literally used magic, not his own body, which makes it not a reaction feat.

3. It's always how it works. It's been shown that you can't magic things you can't see or react to. If he couldn't react to radio waves, he wouldn't be able to redirect them. Period.

False. Magic has no limits.

And besides, that's such an old showing it hardly holds up any weight today. That would be like Thanos getting cuffed up by policemen, or Spider-Man beating Firelord.

Jmarshmallow

1. Still wouldn't make them faster than Lightning. Nightcrawler too has done this.

2. So he can magic something he can't react to? Then why are we arguing this? If Loki can magic things fast as light, then how do Dante or Vergil compare? If his reactions are lightspeed, the same question applies.

3. It has yet to be contradicted. And Thanos getting cuffed was non-canon. And Spidey's was so inconsistent with his usual showings it's not funny. This is not inconsistent with Loki's showings.

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Cerberus369616

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1. Teleportation's speed differs the bigger the difference. At close ranges, street levelers have all reacted and moved this fast. Same as Dante

2. Huh? All worlds are assumed to be = to ours unless something is stated different. The same way that a tree in Marvel is an f'ing tree like in the real world, so is Lightning. And my point was that she used her lightning to do fast things that can be considered even faster than natural lightning.

I'm not lowballing him at all, it's just generally people with lightning powers aren't accepted at light speed. If they were, every anime/manga/comic book character ever that fought one of these people would be lightning speed. Which is wrong and dumb.

3. I don't see anything in that video to even suggest he himself is moving fast under his own power. It's not even a feat. At most it's saying he can fall fast.

4. Dante's been tagged by normal assassins, bullets, slow attacks, etc. Not sure what you're talking about. Hell the beginning /intro of DMC3 or any time he "lets" something stab or hit him are examples.

1. The point of Teleportation is that it doesn't differ in speed depending on the distance....that is why it's teleportation and not "moving real fast" or "Using a hyperspace Gate" Your confusing Street levelers that use agility and speed to move out of the target sight range with people who literally move faster than the target can perceive. It's why you can see a car moving fast despite them being faster than BP or Wolverine. Dante is literally emulating Teleportation by moving so fat he can't be seen.

2.The point I'm making is that you are taking something at face value (in this case that Lightning in Marvel operates under the same rules as Lightning in the real world) when there is literally nothing stating that. You seem to require statements to believe obvious things but only when you don't want to believe it, it's hypocritical. The point of the Blitz transforming into lightning and then moving around is to imply it moves at lightning speeds. Yet you don't believe it because the writer, or whoever you need the info from, didn't come talk to you in person or stop the game to say "yes this is supposed to be real lightning speed". Well in the same fashion no writer has ever stated on panel that Marvel Lightning moves at x amount of speed. It's silly and arbitrary to argue on that basis.

You are lowballing him. People regularly argue that Luffy is Hypersonic because he can keep up with Enel. Lightning isn't Light speed to begin with so no one would argue that, but if someone dodges lightning, unless there is a reason beyond "someone didn't say it specifically" we assume they are at the very least a lightning timer. If you can offer me proof that Blitz don;t move at lightning speed, fine, but you haven;t offered any proof other than it doesn't sit well with you.

3.He is running on the building.....Gravity doesn't move people that fast so he has to be using his own power...evidence by him running...using his legs. Are you and me looking at the same video? Do you not see him moving his legs? Terminal velocity is what everything falls at and can be determined by physics. A metal ball and a clay ball despite different weights fall at the same speed due to Gravity operating the same on all matter. Dante is clearly moving faster than terminal velocity, so the extra acceleration and speed HAS to be from him.

4. Yea...he let's it happen to him. because he doesn't care. Look at his face before, during and after anytime he get's tagged. He is smiling. Loki didn't "let" shit happen to hm.

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Jmarshmallow

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#82  Edited By Jmarshmallow

1. Still wouldn't make them faster than Lightning. Nightcrawler too has done this.

Scans?

And plus, Dante outraced an attack made out of nothing but light. So it's really irrelevant.

But still, that feat is still faster than lightning IMO.

2. So he can magic something he can't react to? Then why are we arguing this? If Loki can magic things fast as light, then how do Dante or Vergil compare? If his reactions are lightspeed, the same question applies.

His magic can redirect radio waves, that's as far as it goes.

Not reacting, just casting a spell.

3. It has yet to be contradicted. And Thanos getting cuffed was non-canon. And Spidey's was so inconsistent with his usual showings it's not funny. This is not inconsistent with Loki's showings.

Another showing of FTL reaction speed?

Jmarshmallow

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden said:

1. Teleportation's speed differs the bigger the difference. At close ranges, street levelers have all reacted and moved this fast. Same as Dante

2. Huh? All worlds are assumed to be = to ours unless something is stated different. The same way that a tree in Marvel is an f'ing tree like in the real world, so is Lightning. And my point was that she used her lightning to do fast things that can be considered even faster than natural lightning.

I'm not lowballing him at all, it's just generally people with lightning powers aren't accepted at light speed. If they were, every anime/manga/comic book character ever that fought one of these people would be lightning speed. Which is wrong and dumb.

3. I don't see anything in that video to even suggest he himself is moving fast under his own power. It's not even a feat. At most it's saying he can fall fast.

4. Dante's been tagged by normal assassins, bullets, slow attacks, etc. Not sure what you're talking about. Hell the beginning /intro of DMC3 or any time he "lets" something stab or hit him are examples.

1. The point of Teleportation is that it doesn't differ in speed depending on the distance....that is why it's teleportation and not "moving real fast" or "Using a hyperspace Gate" Your confusing Street levelers that use agility and speed to move out of the target sight range with people who literally move faster than the target can perceive. It's why you can see a car moving fast despite them being faster than BP or Wolverine. Dante is literally emulating Teleportation by moving so fat he can't be seen.

2.The point I'm making is that you are taking something at face value (in this case that Lightning in Marvel operates under the same rules as Lightning in the real world) when there is literally nothing stating that. You seem to require statements to believe obvious things but only when you don't want to believe it, it's hypocritical. The point of the Blitz transforming into lightning and then moving around is to imply it moves at lightning speeds. Yet you don't believe it because the writer, or whoever you need the info from, didn't come talk to you in person or stop the game to say "yes this is supposed to be real lightning speed". Well in the same fashion no writer has ever stated on panel that Marvel Lightning moves at x amount of speed. It's silly and arbitrary to argue on that basis.

You are lowballing him. People regularly argue that Luffy is Hypersonic because he can keep up with Enel. Lightning isn't Light speed to begin with so no one would argue that, but if someone dodges lightning, unless there is a reason beyond "someone didn't say it specifically" we assume they are at the very least a lightning timer. If you can offer me proof that Blitz don;t move at lightning speed, fine, but you haven;t offered any proof other than it doesn't sit well with you.

3.He is running on the building.....Gravity doesn't move people that fast so he has to be using his own power...evidence by him running...using his legs. Are you and me looking at the same video? Do you not see him moving his legs? Terminal velocity is what everything falls at and can be determined by physics. A metal ball and a clay ball despite different weights fall at the same speed due to Gravity operating the same on all matter. Dante is clearly moving faster than terminal velocity, so the extra acceleration and speed HAS to be from him.

4. Yea...he let's it happen to him. because he doesn't care. Look at his face before, during and after anytime he get's tagged. He is smiling. Loki didn't "let" shit happen to hm.

1. No...Teleportation is instant. Always. That's why larger distances is more impressive, technically the speed is perceived as faster. To 'move as fast as teleportation' is only to move fast enough to make someone perceive that you teleported, which is easier at close distances for obvious reasons.

2. Huh? No. The real is always, things = our world until proven differently. Blitz transforms into either demonic or artificial lightning and then attacks, which has nothing to do with how fast lightning actually moves (from cloud to ground). He's not functioning as actual lightning any more. And nothing says he retains that speed.

Hypersonic<<<Lightning speed btw. And lightning timing is garbage tier. Again, Spider-Man and Nightcrawler have done so. It's not anything special.

3. So...he's using gravity+ legs, still not moving under his own power exclusively. He's at least accelerating at 9.8 m/s^2 before he moves his leg even an inch.

4. You literally said he's never been tagged by slow stuff....I proved you wrong.

And Loki literally lets stuff happen all the time. Plus he's the villain and literally HAS to lose by whatever plot device is given at the time.

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#84  Edited By DarkRaiden

@darkraiden said:

1. Still wouldn't make them faster than Lightning. Nightcrawler too has done this.

Scans?

And plus, Dante outraced an attack made out of nothing but light. So it's really irrelevant.

But still, that feat is still faster than lightning IMO.

2. So he can magic something he can't react to? Then why are we arguing this? If Loki can magic things fast as light, then how do Dante or Vergil compare? If his reactions are lightspeed, the same question applies.

His magic can redirect radio waves, that's as far as it goes.

Not reacting, just casting a spell.

3. It has yet to be contradicted. And Thanos getting cuffed was non-canon. And Spidey's was so inconsistent with his usual showings it's not funny. This is not inconsistent with Loki's showings.

Another showing of FTL reaction speed?

Jmarshmallow

No Caption Provided

1.

And attacks made of *insert substance here* never move at that speed unless stated to do so. If they did, every street leveler ever would be able to dodge light.....think about that.

2. You just said Magic had no limits and could affect things no matter the speed. Therefore Loki wins by your own words

3. He's hit silver Surfer, his thoughts>>lightning speed, he's dodged Mjolnir several times, he's perceived things in different dimensions, worlds, etc.

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Regardless of speed, Dante's skill and agility are factors to be considered as well. I'll play devil's advocate and say Thor is just as fast as Dante is -- he'll still have a helluva hard time getting anywhere near the son of Sparda given his usual combat tactics of "swing hammer as hard as possible until victory."

Loading Video...

Thor isn't touching this. Dante will slip past and deflect every attack he makes. Thor needs an actual speed advantage in order to keep up with Dante, and even if you don't believe Dante is really light speed or lightning speed, you'd have to be crazy to think he's actually slower than Thor.

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I like this thread im a big fan of both sides here. even my dogs are named thor and loki lol. but dante and virgil are part demon.. so its hard to say really what the outcome would be. to say thor or loki would solo... to me is kinda ridiculous. 2v2 idk, I wish this actually happened because id love to watch it. but I don't see anyone in here solo'ing in this match up

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1.

And attacks made of *insert substance here* never move at that speed unless stated to do so. If they did, every street leveler ever would be able to dodge light.....think about that.

2. You just said Magic had no limits and could affect things no matter the speed. Therefore Loki wins by your own words

3. He's hit silver Surfer, his thoughts>>lightning speed, he's dodged Mjolnir several times, he's perceived things in different dimensions, worlds, etc.

Lightning =/= FTL, which is what you're trying to suggest the first feat is. Loki doesn't have FTL feats because that's not consistent to his character, and again that first feat wasn't FTL because he used magic to redirect waves. He didn't actually react to it. And those waves clearly weren't FTL like usual, because Loki was able to say an entire sentence by the time they turn a corner.

1. Light is light, and Dante outpaced light.

Street levelers don't dodge light, they dodge the thing shooting the light. It's called "aim-dodging."

2. Magic, by definition, is limitless, however the wielder of said magic does have limits. And Loki's limits are that he doesn't fight FTL, but he can redirect "radio waves" with his magic. Radio waves which, mind you, aren't FTL by your own admission apparently.

And attacks made of *insert substance here* never move at that speed unless stated to do so

So not only weren't they STATED to be FTL, but those radio waves also displayed less than FTL speeds by still moving by the time Loki finished a whole sentence.

3. SS doesn't have FTL fighting speed. He can PERCEIVE nanoseconds, tops, but that's about it. He doesn't even fight at nanosecond speed.

MJOLNIR isn't FTL by my knowledge, and least not all the time.

And perceiving things in other dimensions have naught to do with speed.

Jmarshmallow

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Cerberus369616

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#88  Edited By Cerberus369616

1. No...Teleportation is instant. Always. That's why larger distances is more impressive, technically the speed is perceived as faster. To 'move as fast as teleportation' is only to move fast enough to make someone perceive that you teleported, which is easier at close distances for obvious reasons.

2. Huh? No. The real is always, things = our world until proven differently. Blitz transforms into either demonic or artificial lightning and then attacks, which has nothing to do with how fast lightning actually moves (from cloud to ground). He's not functioning as actual lightning any more. And nothing says he retains that speed.

Hypersonic<<<Lightning speed btw. And lightning timing is garbage tier. Again, Spider-Man and Nightcrawler have done so. It's not anything special.

3. So...he's using gravity+ legs, still not moving under his own power exclusively. He's at least accelerating at 9.8 m/s^2 before he moves his leg even an inch.

4. You literally said he's never been tagged by slow stuff....I proved you wrong.

And Loki literally lets stuff happen all the time. Plus he's the villain and literally HAS to lose by whatever plot device is given at the time.

1. DO you even read what you say or do you just disagree to disagree?

This is you -> 1. "Teleportation's speed differs the bigger the difference." in post #79, now you say -> "No...Teleportation is instant. Always." You literally make no sense.

2.Based on what? Some arbitrary rules you made up? Some random universal fiction rules you made up in your head to prove your point? Your just claiming things now. There is no point in debating with you if your just gonna make rules when ever you want that everyone has to follow. If you wanna split hairs and decide on things like "magical lightning is Slower than Non magical Lightning" then I'll make crap up like "Radio waves in marvel comics are visible so they must not be normal radio waves but are actually little raisins with the info written on them and Loki didn't do anything vaguely impressive"

3.Gravity hardly makes a difference at that speed though. Terminal velocity is no where near the atmospheric rentry speed of earth. It's like saying that a bullet shot downward isn't fast because "derp gravity derp" .

4. Now you resort to lies? I'm not surprised.

i said " bet you don't have scans of Dante Getting tagged by stupid shit unless he wants too" so I didn't literally say "he's never been tagged by slow stuff"

So surprise, you didn't disprove anything I said. You just said it's happened. Loki let's something happen, but he didn't let that particular thing Happen now did he? It happened cause Loki fucked up, just like Loki is gonna fuck up versus Dante, not that Dante needs him too.

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colliderz

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Dante and Vergil

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden said:

1.

And attacks made of *insert substance here* never move at that speed unless stated to do so. If they did, every street leveler ever would be able to dodge light.....think about that.

2. You just said Magic had no limits and could affect things no matter the speed. Therefore Loki wins by your own words

3. He's hit silver Surfer, his thoughts>>lightning speed, he's dodged Mjolnir several times, he's perceived things in different dimensions, worlds, etc.

Lightning =/= FTL, which is what you're trying to suggest the first feat is. Loki doesn't have FTL feats because that's not consistent to his character, and again that first feat wasn't FTL because he used magic to redirect waves. He didn't actually react to it. And those waves clearly weren't FTL like usual, because Loki was able to say an entire sentence by the time they turn a corner.

1. Light is light, and Dante outpaced light.

Street levelers don't dodge light, they dodge the thing shooting the light. It's called "aim-dodging."

2. Magic, by definition, is limitless, however the wielder of said magic does have limits. And Loki's limits are that he doesn't fight FTL, but he can redirect "radio waves" with his magic. Radio waves which, mind you, aren't FTL by your own admission apparently.

And attacks made of *insert substance here* never move at that speed unless stated to do so

So not only weren't they STATED to be FTL, but those radio waves also displayed less than FTL speeds by still moving by the time Loki finished a whole sentence.

3. SS doesn't have FTL fighting speed. He can PERCEIVE nanoseconds, tops, but that's about it. He doesn't even fight at nanosecond speed.

MJOLNIR isn't FTL by my knowledge, and least not all the time.

And perceiving things in other dimensions have naught to do with speed.

Jmarshmallow

1. No...light attacks are not light. Literally everyone in Marvel would be FTL then. Everyone has dodged the occasional energy ball or laser (yes after it's fired), doesn't make them FTl.

2. Loki can stop time, turn things to snow, transmutate things, etc.. His limits are not redirecting radio waves.

3. He does actually, nanoseconds is >>>>FTL. ANd he's moved at nanosecond speed before.

Dante nor Vergil can do anything to Thor or Loki and can't survive even one attack from either of them. This is fact. Either one solos DMC universe.

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden said:

1. No...Teleportation is instant. Always. That's why larger distances is more impressive, technically the speed is perceived as faster. To 'move as fast as teleportation' is only to move fast enough to make someone perceive that you teleported, which is easier at close distances for obvious reasons.

2. Huh? No. The real is always, things = our world until proven differently. Blitz transforms into either demonic or artificial lightning and then attacks, which has nothing to do with how fast lightning actually moves (from cloud to ground). He's not functioning as actual lightning any more. And nothing says he retains that speed.

Hypersonic<<<Lightning speed btw. And lightning timing is garbage tier. Again, Spider-Man and Nightcrawler have done so. It's not anything special.

3. So...he's using gravity+ legs, still not moving under his own power exclusively. He's at least accelerating at 9.8 m/s^2 before he moves his leg even an inch.

4. You literally said he's never been tagged by slow stuff....I proved you wrong.

And Loki literally lets stuff happen all the time. Plus he's the villain and literally HAS to lose by whatever plot device is given at the time.

1. DO you even read what you say or do you just disagree to disagree?

This is you -> 1. "Teleportation's speed differs the bigger the difference." in post #79, now you say -> "No...Teleportation is instant. Always." You literally make no sense.

2.Based on what? Some arbitrary rules you made up? Some random universal fiction rules you made up in your head to prove your point? Your just claiming things now. There is no point in debating with you if your just gonna make rules when ever you want that everyone has to follow. If you wanna split hairs and decide on things like "magical lightning is Slower than Non magical Lightning" then I'll make crap up like "Radio waves in marvel comics are visible so they must not be normal radio waves but are actually little raisins with the info written on them and Loki didn't do anything vaguely impressive"

3.Gravity hardly makes a difference at that speed though. Terminal velocity is no where near the atmospheric rentry speed of earth. It's like saying that a bullet shot downward isn't fast because "derp gravity derp" .

4. Now you resort to lies? I'm not surprised.

i said " bet you don't have scans of Dante Getting tagged by stupid shit unless he wants too" so I didn't literally say "he's never been tagged by slow stuff"

So surprise, you didn't disprove anything I said. You just said it's happened. Loki let's something happen, but he didn't let that particular thing Happen now did he? It happened cause Loki fucked up, just like Loki is gonna fuck up versus Dante, not that Dante needs him too.

1. Yeah, teleportation is perceived as faster at far distances. Which is all that's relevant to what we were talking about since we were discussing moving so fast it looks like we're teleporting. I even explained further in that post you quoted.

2. Based on the universal rules everyone follows at all time.

Also radio waves aren't visible smart one. Loki can perceive them cause he's godly and magic.

3. Gravity means a lot to that speed. And bullets are slow no matter whee they're shot compared to these characters.

4. Pretty sure Dante's been hit when he doesn't want o.

Plus Loki can't mess up against Dante. Dante can't hurt him or put him down in any way. Meanwhile Loki can turn him into snow with a mere thought.

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Jmarshmallow

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1. No...light attacks are not light.

Yes...they are...kinda common sense there...

Literally everyone in Marvel would be FTL then. Everyone has dodged the occasional energy ball or laser (yes after it's fired), doesn't make them FTl.

Show me one street leveler sans people with precog (like Spider-Man, his Spider sense allows him limited precog) dodging lasers after they're fired, and not just aim-dodging.

And on top of that, comic book logic =/= DMC logic.

2. Loki can stop time, turn things to snow, transmutate things, etc.. His limits are not redirecting radio waves.

I agree, but he is limited with his speed, which is what I was referring to.

3. He does actually, nanoseconds is >>>>FTL. ANd he's moved at nanosecond speed before.

He doesn't fight at FTL. Show me one feat of him fighting at FTL speeds.

Dante nor Vergil can do anything to Thor or Loki and can't survive even one attack from either of them. This is fact. Either one solos DMC universe.

It's not a fact, because they're not going to be able to hit Dante, and if they do, he can just use Royal Guard to deflect any attack back at them/use the energy from said attack to heal themselves.

Jmarshmallow

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden said:

1. No...light attacks are not light.

Yes...they are...kinda common sense there...

Literally everyone in Marvel would be FTL then. Everyone has dodged the occasional energy ball or laser (yes after it's fired), doesn't make them FTl.

Show me one street leveler sans people with precog (like Spider-Man, his Spider sense allows him limited precog) dodging lasers after they're fired, and not just aim-dodging.

And on top of that, comic book logic =/= DMC logic.

2. Loki can stop time, turn things to snow, transmutate things, etc.. His limits are not redirecting radio waves.

I agree, but he is limited with his speed, which is what I was referring to.

3. He does actually, nanoseconds is >>>>FTL. ANd he's moved at nanosecond speed before.

He doesn't fight at FTL. Show me one feat of him fighting at FTL speeds.

Dante nor Vergil can do anything to Thor or Loki and can't survive even one attack from either of them. This is fact. Either one solos DMC universe.

It's not a fact, because they're not going to be able to hit Dante, and if they do, he can just use Royal Guard to deflect any attack back at them/use the energy from said attack to heal themselves.

Jmarshmallow

1. Naw. they've never been lightspeed in any medium. Ever. Spider-Man, for all of his 'precog' has still been hit by normal humans. So unless Normal humans>lightspeed, then that argument is moot.

Look at all that laser and lightning dodging. Clearly deadpool and Blade are super fast. And funny thing is cyclops's blast is actually STATED light speed.

2. No he's not, he's shown moving faster than lightning, perceiving faster than light, and performing magic at the speed of thoguht.

3.

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@cerberus369616 said:

@darkraiden said:

1. No...Teleportation is instant. Always. That's why larger distances is more impressive, technically the speed is perceived as faster. To 'move as fast as teleportation' is only to move fast enough to make someone perceive that you teleported, which is easier at close distances for obvious reasons.

2. Huh? No. The real is always, things = our world until proven differently. Blitz transforms into either demonic or artificial lightning and then attacks, which has nothing to do with how fast lightning actually moves (from cloud to ground). He's not functioning as actual lightning any more. And nothing says he retains that speed.

Hypersonic<<<Lightning speed btw. And lightning timing is garbage tier. Again, Spider-Man and Nightcrawler have done so. It's not anything special.

3. So...he's using gravity+ legs, still not moving under his own power exclusively. He's at least accelerating at 9.8 m/s^2 before he moves his leg even an inch.

4. You literally said he's never been tagged by slow stuff....I proved you wrong.

And Loki literally lets stuff happen all the time. Plus he's the villain and literally HAS to lose by whatever plot device is given at the time.

1. DO you even read what you say or do you just disagree to disagree?

This is you -> 1. "Teleportation's speed differs the bigger the difference." in post #79, now you say -> "No...Teleportation is instant. Always." You literally make no sense.

2.Based on what? Some arbitrary rules you made up? Some random universal fiction rules you made up in your head to prove your point? Your just claiming things now. There is no point in debating with you if your just gonna make rules when ever you want that everyone has to follow. If you wanna split hairs and decide on things like "magical lightning is Slower than Non magical Lightning" then I'll make crap up like "Radio waves in marvel comics are visible so they must not be normal radio waves but are actually little raisins with the info written on them and Loki didn't do anything vaguely impressive"

3.Gravity hardly makes a difference at that speed though. Terminal velocity is no where near the atmospheric rentry speed of earth. It's like saying that a bullet shot downward isn't fast because "derp gravity derp" .

4. Now you resort to lies? I'm not surprised.

i said " bet you don't have scans of Dante Getting tagged by stupid shit unless he wants too" so I didn't literally say "he's never been tagged by slow stuff"

So surprise, you didn't disprove anything I said. You just said it's happened. Loki let's something happen, but he didn't let that particular thing Happen now did he? It happened cause Loki fucked up, just like Loki is gonna fuck up versus Dante, not that Dante needs him too.

1. Yeah, teleportation is perceived as faster at far distances. Which is all that's relevant to what we were talking about since we were discussing moving so fast it looks like we're teleporting. I even explained further in that post you quoted.

Look guy I was just going off what you said.

2. Based on the universal rules everyone follows at all time.

No. We aren't using rules everyone goes off all the time. Who made these rules? Where are these rules stated? They sound like things you believe so you apply it to everyone. If you mean instances where Batman out paces a laser so it can't be a real laser or something similar then that is backed by evidence ala batman being peak human. You have no such evidence, you just trying to apply rules that pply sometimes to each and every scenario for...again, no reason.

Also radio waves aren't visible smart one. Loki can perceive them cause he's godly and magic.

I was being facetious because that is the Logic you are using. It shitty logic.

3. Gravity means a lot to that speed. And bullets are slow no matter whee they're shot compared to these characters.

No..it doesn't mean a lot at those speeds. Gravity is the weakest of the fundamental forces, it jsut hase the furthest distance , which matters not at these speeds. The bullets were a metaphor to make you understand how dumb you sound.

4. Pretty sure Dante's been hit when he doesn't want to.

Yea, by things on his level. Like Vergil or General Class Demons like Beowulf. not by (reading comprehension is important in a debate) "stupid shit"

Plus Loki can't mess up against Dante. Dante can't hurt him or put him down in any way. Meanwhile Loki can turn him into snow with a mere thought.

Seems like he messes up alot to me. And based on what can Dante no hurt Loki? Do you want to compare destructive capability to Loki's Durability and defensive capability now? Because I'd absolutely love too.

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DarkRaiden

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2. These are rules everyone follows or everything in every fiction ever is 100% speculative. Who says 1 second in DMC is 1 second in the real word? who says lightning isn't half the speed of bullets in DMC world? etc. etc. a bunch of dumb stuff

4. Yes let's compare Dante's destruction to Loki's skyfather+ level durability. Oh and the fact that Loki's stated to planet bust+ levels. Please do.

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Jmarshmallow

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#96  Edited By Jmarshmallow

1. Naw. they've never been lightspeed in any medium. Ever. Spider-Man, for all of his 'precog' has still been hit by normal humans. So unless Normal humans>lightspeed, then that argument is moot.

All of those examples were aim-dodging.

Look at all that laser and lightning dodging. Clearly deadpool and Blade are super fast. And funny thing is cyclops's blast is actually STATED light speed.

Cyclops lasers aren't actually lasers.

It is a kinetic concussive force beam from another dimension.

Just sooo ya know.

So I'm not sure why it would be speed of light.

2. No he's not, he's shown moving faster than lightning, perceiving faster than light, and performing magic at the speed of thoguht.

Minor magic at the speed of thought. Nothing that will be able to put Dante down.

3.

The first scan shows that he can perceive nanoseconds, but not actually fight at that speed. Being able to break a fancy pair of handcuffs doesn't mean you have nanosecond reaction speed.

The second scan is due to Cosmic Awareness.

No FTL fighting/reaction speed.

Jmarshmallow

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Those are all bad examples to try and prove lasers in fiction aren't FTL. Cyclops' beams are stated to move at light speed, but his visor slows them down.

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DarkRaiden

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@darkraiden said:

1. Naw. they've never been lightspeed in any medium. Ever. Spider-Man, for all of his 'precog' has still been hit by normal humans. So unless Normal humans>lightspeed, then that argument is moot.

All of those examples were aim-dodging.

Look at all that laser and lightning dodging. Clearly deadpool and Blade are super fast. And funny thing is cyclops's blast is actually STATED light speed.

Cyclops lasers aren't actually lasers.

It is a kinetic concussive force beam from another dimension.

Just sooo ya know.

So I'm not sure why it would be speed of light.

2. No he's not, he's shown moving faster than lightning, perceiving faster than light, and performing magic at the speed of thoguht.

Minor magic at the speed of thought. Nothing that will be able to put Dante down.

3.

The first scan shows that he can perceive nanoseconds, but not actually fight at that speed. Being able to break a fancy pair of handcuffs doesn't mean you have nanosecond reaction speed.

The second scan is due to Cosmic Awareness.

No FTL fighting/reaction speed.

Jmarshmallow

1. No. Cyclops's beam and the lightning were literally going at Deadpool who was mid air before he disappeared. He'd have no way to aim dodge that. Same with Blade, the laser was shot at him and he wasn't even looking at the guy really when he dodged it. And Cyclops's kinetic force beam is actually stated lightspeed, which is why I used it.

2. What? He made ice that could trap and hold Mjolnir you know the planet busting, possibly star busting hammer? How in any way is that minor? And how does that NOT put down Dante who has no resistance to ice.

3. He MOVED and escaped an attack/prison BEFORE a nanosecond was up. That's combat/reaction speeds of FTL. It's even stated.

2nd Scan has nothing to do with Cosmic Awareness. He literally flew around the world and searched every inch of it before Dr. Strange finished speaking. So wrong again. Both are examples of FTL speed in combat/reactions.

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No one is touching Dante, also in his Majin Form he is impervious to everything.

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EzioRenzo

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Isnt this too much for the both Son of Sparda?

Anyway, ill consider this normal Thor(RK Thor is too spite) and Loki. That is when Dante and Vergil could pwn the two(Though Loki is too clever).

Majin form plus Quicksilver Could end the party(If Thor defeated gods, Dante defeated Demonic gods).