Thor and Beta Ray Bill vs Wonder Woman and Power Girl

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@super_psycho said:

It's an alternative reality. Wonder woman has blocked blasts from Greek pantheon,Ares and Nekron..lots of things were changed in that alternative reality, how can you possibly say that wonder woman's bracelets are same..

Because the mainstreme charactors considered it canon there ore they believe it could happen.@Pokeysteve said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Pokeysteve said:

@venomoushatred1001: Her bracelets were shatter in the alternate reality. Things were different. Her attire most notably. Everything was different except her name and Lasso. We have no idea where she got those bracelets from. To my knowledge they have NEVER been broken. Thor can throw his hammer at thousands of times the speed of light sure, but how fast has he been shown throwing it in Earth's atmosphere? There is a difference.

1. it was still acknowledged by mainstream characters as canon.

2. If Thor can throw it fast in space, why couldn't he do it that fast on Earth.

1. Not arguing with you about cannon....ness. It probably is. So much was changed in that story though you can't just assume those were the bracelets made from Zeus' Aegis. And as someone stated, her bracelets have easily tanked shots from a bloodlusted Superman. Unless someone can come up with a scan, they are unbreakable.

2. Air. There is no air in space. No friction to overcome. No gravity to weigh things down. Superman, Green Lanterns, Silver Surfer, can all travel way faster than light in space. With the air here though it's different. I hope I explained it well enough =/

1.

2. I doubt friction is going to stop Mjolnir's travel speed.

Alternate-reality. Try again.

@super_psycho said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@super_psycho said:

@venomoushatred1001: All the amazons wear bracelets but they are not made from aegis in mainstream reality wonder woman has blocked hits from many characters in superman's league but they weren't able break the bracelets..

But that was a bloodlusted Superman who hit them.

It doesn't change the fact that superman is no where near sky-fathers and wonder woman has blocked attacks from sky-fathers and even more powerful characters..

Yet Superman was able to break them.

@XiiX said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@super_psycho said:

It's an alternative reality. Wonder woman has blocked blasts from Greek pantheon,Ares and Nekron..lots of things were changed in that alternative reality, how can you possibly say that wonder woman's bracelets are same..

Because the mainstreme charactors considered it canon there ore they believe it could happen.@Pokeysteve said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Pokeysteve said:

@venomoushatred1001: Her bracelets were shatter in the alternate reality. Things were different. Her attire most notably. Everything was different except her name and Lasso. We have no idea where she got those bracelets from. To my knowledge they have NEVER been broken. Thor can throw his hammer at thousands of times the speed of light sure, but how fast has he been shown throwing it in Earth's atmosphere? There is a difference.

1. it was still acknowledged by mainstream characters as canon.

2. If Thor can throw it fast in space, why couldn't he do it that fast on Earth.

1. Not arguing with you about cannon....ness. It probably is. So much was changed in that story though you can't just assume those were the bracelets made from Zeus' Aegis. And as someone stated, her bracelets have easily tanked shots from a bloodlusted Superman. Unless someone can come up with a scan, they are unbreakable.

2. Air. There is no air in space. No friction to overcome. No gravity to weigh things down. Superman, Green Lanterns, Silver Surfer, can all travel way faster than light in space. With the air here though it's different. I hope I explained it well enough =/

1.

2. I doubt friction is going to stop Mjolnir's travel speed.

Alternate-reality. Try again.

Still canon. Try again.

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@super_psycho said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@super_psycho said:

@venomoushatred1001: All the amazons wear bracelets but they are not made from aegis in mainstream reality wonder woman has blocked hits from many characters in superman's league but they weren't able break the bracelets..

But that was a bloodlusted Superman who hit them.

It doesn't change the fact that superman is no where near sky-fathers and wonder woman has blocked attacks from sky-fathers and even more powerful characters..

Yet Superman was able to break them.

and hulk was able to break thor's hammer :)...prove that they are same bracelets..

@super_psycho said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@super_psycho said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@super_psycho said:

@venomoushatred1001: All the amazons wear bracelets but they are not made from aegis in mainstream reality wonder woman has blocked hits from many characters in superman's league but they weren't able break the bracelets..

But that was a bloodlusted Superman who hit them.

It doesn't change the fact that superman is no where near sky-fathers and wonder woman has blocked attacks from sky-fathers and even more powerful characters..

Yet Superman was able to break them.

and hulk was able to break thor's hammer :)...prove that they are same bracelets..

1. That was in a dream :P

2. Okay, WW bracelets ARE unbreakable.

@venomoushatred1001: Don't care if it's canon. Doesn't mean it makes sense. I defy you to find insurmountable evidence of Wonder Woman's structural integrity of her braclets being compromised outside of that scan. Bet you can't/won't.

@XiiX said:

@venomoushatred1001: Don't care if it's canon. Doesn't mean it makes sense. I defy you to find insurmountable evidence of Wonder Woman's structural integrity of her braclets being compromised outside of that scan. Bet you can't/won't.

I already admitted WW's bracelet are unbreakable.

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@XiiX said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@super_psycho said:

It's an alternative reality. Wonder woman has blocked blasts from Greek pantheon,Ares and Nekron..lots of things were changed in that alternative reality, how can you possibly say that wonder woman's bracelets are same..

Because the mainstreme charactors considered it canon there ore they believe it could happen.@Pokeysteve said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Pokeysteve said:

@venomoushatred1001: Her bracelets were shatter in the alternate reality. Things were different. Her attire most notably. Everything was different except her name and Lasso. We have no idea where she got those bracelets from. To my knowledge they have NEVER been broken. Thor can throw his hammer at thousands of times the speed of light sure, but how fast has he been shown throwing it in Earth's atmosphere? There is a difference.

1. it was still acknowledged by mainstream characters as canon.

2. If Thor can throw it fast in space, why couldn't he do it that fast on Earth.

1. Not arguing with you about cannon....ness. It probably is. So much was changed in that story though you can't just assume those were the bracelets made from Zeus' Aegis. And as someone stated, her bracelets have easily tanked shots from a bloodlusted Superman. Unless someone can come up with a scan, they are unbreakable.

2. Air. There is no air in space. No friction to overcome. No gravity to weigh things down. Superman, Green Lanterns, Silver Surfer, can all travel way faster than light in space. With the air here though it's different. I hope I explained it well enough =/

1.

2. I doubt friction is going to stop Mjolnir's travel speed.

Alternate-reality. Try again.

Still canon. Try again.

Superman/Batman, Loeb's BS.

Hammer bros. Got this one 7-8/10

Thor = BRB > WW or PG.

Thor is just too versatile for WW.

So is BRB

theyre not to versitle of ww.......ww is stronger & faster...braclets block his ranged attacks.....& is much better h2h combatant.......

@EpitomeofCool: LOL

@XiiX said:

@venomoushatred1001: Don't care if it's canon. Doesn't mean it makes sense. I defy you to find insurmountable evidence of Wonder Woman's structural integrity of her braclets being compromised outside of that scan. Bet you can't/won't.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=wonderwoman_175_15.jpg

"Two more blows like that and he'll KILL me. Even my BRACELETS can only withstand hits like that for so long."

So, we have Wonder Woman admitting that a few more hits will break her bracelets. But wait, there's more.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=wonderwoman_175_19.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=wonderwoman_175_26.jpg

Superman breaks her wrist, despite the protection of the bracelet, by merely grabbing it and squeezing. It would have to bend to do that, and if he can do that just by squeezing his hand, imagine what punching it would do, as Diana previously states they'd break with too many blows. So, yep, there's precedent for Superman breaking them, whether you like it or not.

Also, it wasn't an alternate reality. Pokeysteve had the better term with "alternate timeline," but it wasn't like a divergent timeline. Past had been changed, Superman and Batman eventually learn the truth, and work to set things back to how they're supposed to be. So yeah, I think that qualifies as canon.

@venomoushatred1001: While I would give Thor the majority over Wonder Woman, for you to say there's no way she could win is ridiculous. You're arguing Thor fighting out of character and at the least using a borderline No Limits Fallacy. For example, the soul manipulation thing? You're not showing the actual examples, and so far the ONLY instance we've seen was A: Not actually in battle, B: required a few moments of prep, C: had Loki just standing there the entire time, and D: showed Thor essentially used it as a last resort. What you're describing, what was the context of Thor releasing their souls just like that? Did he have the Odin-Force helping him? Did the fact that the Asgardians weren't in their proper bodies have anything to do with it? Because it being as easy as you're claiming contradicts the only example shown thus far.

And he'll just manipulate her molecules? How often does he even USE matter manipulation, let alone in a fight? The only examples I know of where he using it DIRECTLY on his opponent is against Absorbing Man, someone who's powers make this a much more viable and logical tactic to use against than someone more like Wonder Woman. Plus, how do you know that the NATURE of Absorbing Man's powers didn't effect how easy it was to actually use this? And, like I pointed-out before, the odds of him actually using this are very, very unlikely from what I know.

On Mjolnir will always travel thousands of times lightspeed when used against her, whether it be matter manipulation or just plain attacking her, how is it ONE example of it happening means Mjolnir always travels at those speeds? Mjolnir's been dodged before by people who don't even have any super speed. And here's another thing: I see you like people to prove the durability of Wonder Woman's bracelets and dismiss examples used to back their arguments. How about you prove that Mjolnir really can travel that fast? Mjolnir has space-warping capabilities, how do you know that Mjolnir wasn't just bending space to shorten the distance in that one instance?

In regards to Thor going intangible to avoid the Lasso, never heard of Thor being able to turn intangible before. But good for him if he can, not a valid argument. Unless you give him foreknowledge, I don't see why he'd phase to avoid it. And while I don't know if it can lasso an intangible being(will have to check that) it has shown to restrain those who CAN turn intangible by basically commanding them. Martian Manhunter has been restrained by it before, so even if it can't contain an intangible being, Thor would have no reason to avoid it without knowing he wouldn't be able to escape. Assuming she didn't just super-speed tie him up like she did to Amazo. And if neither Amazo or Superboy Prime could break free, Thor sure ain't.

Now, to tell you why it's ridiculous that Wonder Woman can't ever beat Thor. Yes, he's stronger than her and overall more powerful with his versatility. But the whole being in-character thing? Being in character, Thor fights someone like Wonder Woman, he'll be using little to none of his versatility in the vast majority of fights. He's stronger and more durable than her, but she's faster and more skilled. This will give her the edge to be able to win some fights when Thor is going to mostly make it a face-punching contest to ONLY having it as a face-punching contest. As for her beating Beta Ray Bill, I can't answer that as I've seen little of BRB to know if he'd be more likely to use his versatility advantage or not than Thor.

But hey, since you're taking things to the absolute best of what characters can do and are kinda arguing theoretically, we apply that to the laddies here, then they win every time. All the versatility in the world won't help very much against those with a speed advantage like here. Being more versatile and powerful won't do much good if they beat your face in before you can blink. Good thing I'm not arguing theoretical.

Oh yeah and I had a good laugh at your claim that if Superman can break Wonder Woman's bracelets, that Thor can too.

@Delta1938 said:

@venomoushatred1001: While I would give Thor the majority over Wonder Woman, for you to say there's no way she could win is ridiculous.

I never said there was no way for her to win.

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Delta1938 said:

@venomoushatred1001: While I would give Thor the majority over Wonder Woman, for you to say there's no way she could win is ridiculous.

I never said there was no way for her to win.

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Pokeysteve said:

WW, I think, can beat either of these 2 one on one so if PG goes down fast Diana succumbs to the 2 on 1.

She cannot beat either of them.

So, what did you mean by "she cannot beat either of them?" Or are you just arguing semantics?

Also, what makes you think Thor is close to Superman in strength? Or "roughly equal" to avoid semantics.

@Delta1938 said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Delta1938 said:

@venomoushatred1001: While I would give Thor the majority over Wonder Woman, for you to say there's no way she could win is ridiculous.

I never said there was no way for her to win.

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Pokeysteve said:

WW, I think, can beat either of these 2 one on one so if PG goes down fast Diana succumbs to the 2 on 1.

She cannot beat either of them.

So, what did you mean by "she cannot beat either of them?" Or are you just arguing semantics?

Also, what makes you think Thor is close to Superman in strength? Or "roughly equal" to avoid semantics.

I said Thor takes the majority over wonder Woman, though she can get a few wins.

Thor is close to Superman in strength based on feats.

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Delta1938 said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Delta1938 said:

@venomoushatred1001: While I would give Thor the majority over Wonder Woman, for you to say there's no way she could win is ridiculous.

I never said there was no way for her to win.

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Pokeysteve said:

WW, I think, can beat either of these 2 one on one so if PG goes down fast Diana succumbs to the 2 on 1.

She cannot beat either of them.

So, what did you mean by "she cannot beat either of them?" Or are you just arguing semantics?

Also, what makes you think Thor is close to Superman in strength? Or "roughly equal" to avoid semantics.

I said Thor takes the majority over wonder Woman, though she can get a few wins.

Thor is close to Superman in strength based on feats.

"She cannot beat either of them."

So, where is it you said that Thor takes a majority and not every single win ever in your sentence of "She cannot beat either of them?"

And Thor is close to Superman in strength based on what feats?

@Delta1938 said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Delta1938 said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Delta1938 said:

@venomoushatred1001: While I would give Thor the majority over Wonder Woman, for you to say there's no way she could win is ridiculous.

I never said there was no way for her to win.

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Pokeysteve said:

WW, I think, can beat either of these 2 one on one so if PG goes down fast Diana succumbs to the 2 on 1.

She cannot beat either of them.

So, what did you mean by "she cannot beat either of them?" Or are you just arguing semantics?

Also, what makes you think Thor is close to Superman in strength? Or "roughly equal" to avoid semantics.

I said Thor takes the majority over wonder Woman, though she can get a few wins.

Thor is close to Superman in strength based on feats.

"She cannot beat either of them."

So, where is it you said that Thor takes a majority and not every single win ever in your sentence of "She cannot beat either of them?"

And Thor is close to Superman in strength based on what feats?

I meant she can't beat them in the majority of 10 fights.

I REALLY do not feel like posting Fifty different scans of Thor's strength feats so I just give you a link:

http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/punkmastaflex/thor-revamped-respect-thread/87-70606/

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Delta1938 said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Delta1938 said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Delta1938 said:

@venomoushatred1001: While I would give Thor the majority over Wonder Woman, for you to say there's no way she could win is ridiculous.

I never said there was no way for her to win.

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Pokeysteve said:

WW, I think, can beat either of these 2 one on one so if PG goes down fast Diana succumbs to the 2 on 1.

She cannot beat either of them.

So, what did you mean by "she cannot beat either of them?" Or are you just arguing semantics?

Also, what makes you think Thor is close to Superman in strength? Or "roughly equal" to avoid semantics.

I said Thor takes the majority over wonder Woman, though she can get a few wins.

Thor is close to Superman in strength based on feats.

"She cannot beat either of them."

So, where is it you said that Thor takes a majority and not every single win ever in your sentence of "She cannot beat either of them?"

And Thor is close to Superman in strength based on what feats?

I meant she can't beat them in the majority of 10 fights.

I REALLY do not feel like posting Fifty different scans of Thor's strength feats so I just give you a link:

http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/punkmastaflex/thor-revamped-respect-thread/87-70606/

One: So if you simply mis-wrote what you meant, why not concede that you did indeed say she can't beat Thor when I first quoted what you had said?

Two: Not impressed. Nothing measures up to shattering space/time as a side effect of his punches

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=AOS649SURVIVESTIMEREALITYSHATERINGFORCES.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=AOS649SURVIVESTIMEREALITYSHATERINGFORCES2.jpg

Or lifting infinite weight

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=SupermanBeyond01Page022.jpg

And I have a lot more feats I can include. And if you go by relative strength, here's Superman showing superior strength to Captain Marvel(who's likely stronger than both Thor and Hercules), despite the fact that Superman's definitely in less than peak condition as he's worn down(from two large-scale fights), had some of his solar energy drained and has been getting effected by Kryptonite by an unknown but consistently increasing degree for a while.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=SupermanBatman04-23.jpg

Or Superman is barely restrained by the combined efforts of Steel, Superboy, Supergirl(Earth Angel era), Big Barda, Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=week16-1999-supesmot-13-18.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=week16-1999-supesmot-13-19.jpg

Are you saying Thor is close to their combined strength? 'Cuz they were BARELY able to hold him down. Granted, some people argue Superman was amped, but it seems all the extra solar energy he'd been exposed to early really did was protect him from GL's synthetic Kryptonite, if you compare his fight with Orion(right before the JLA jumped Superman) to the first fight Superman had under Byrne. Superman had already become more powerful by this point, and he was actually winning against Orion in the first fight until Lightray jumped in, so if he had any real amp on top of his previous power-up, he would've owned Orion. I can provide the two fights for you to compare on your own, if you like.

And it's worth noting that I have a lot more feats for Superman I can show. I've asked people for Thor's best feats of strength, and I've seen pretty much everything your link had, and more, and I'm not seeing how people can say Thor is "equalish" or even close to Superman in strength aside from ignorance. Unless there's other feats I have yet to see.

@Delta1938:

shaking time and space has nothing to do with a battle nor feats. Thor's hammer has done so before when collided with another of equal power.

As for strength, the World tree aka Yggdrasil is incalculable in weight. Fact is both character's have strength levels that are written to do anything for the sake of plot in comics but Superman's stronger due to more strength feats such as Meggaddon.

@Delta1938:

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=wonderwoman_175_15.jpg
"Two more blows like that and he'll KILL me. Even my BRACELETS can only withstand hits like that for so long."
So, we have Wonder Woman admitting that a few more hits will break her bracelets. But wait, there's more.

Wonder Woman's opinion of her Bracelets means nothing. They have never been broken so it's impossible for her to know there limits.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=wonderwoman_175_19.jpg
http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=wonderwoman_175_26.jpg
Superman breaks her wrist, despite the protection of the bracelet, by merely grabbing it and squeezing. It would have to bend to do that, and if he can do that just by squeezing his hand, imagine what punching it would do, as Diana previously states they'd break with too many blows. So, yep, there's precedent for Superman breaking them, whether you like it or not.

His hand is clearly above her Bracelet. In the the next few pages you can see the one on her left arm and it is undamaged. Zero precedent for him breaking them. Until someone comes up with a scan of mainstream Wonder Woman's Bracelets broken or even damaged, they are indestructible.

Welcome to the Vine and awesome, awesome scans!

The Girls

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@super_psycho said:

1. That was in a dream :P

Proof that it was a dream?? this is from Hulk 227

@Killemall said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@super_psycho said:

1. That was in a dream :P

Proof that it was a dream?? this is from Hulk 227

You must not have read the issue. The Hulk woke up afterwards.

@MyronLee26:

hear is one for you an all your thor fans simple use her speed an tie them up end of fight they cannot break diana lasso

@Killemall said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@super_psycho said:

1. That was in a dream :P

Proof that it was a dream?? this is from Hulk 227

Its a dream. Thors hammer has stood up to worst in the past.

Team 1

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@Killemall said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

@super_psycho said:

1. That was in a dream :P

Proof that it was a dream?? this is from Hulk 227

You must not have read the issue. The Hulk woke up afterwards.

I have not read the issue and it was shown to me by someone else who told me it was a alternate reality therefore i am asking you.

@Pokeysteve:

Wonder Woman's opinion of her Bracelets means nothing. They have never been broken so it's impossible for her to know there limits.

Doesn't mean a thing. Balder knows Hulk's limits when he was talking with Thor yet he's never engaged him in combat nor was even there to watch:

~ On a side note for the scan from - Hammer and Sinew -

(In an interview with Kevin Grevioux; He stated that the artist accidently put Thor in his "current" armor, in the top half of the panel. Thor was supposed to be in his "classic" costume)

Also, according to an interview with the writer Kevin Grevioux, when asked about that issue; He stated that the sequence was written to be a flashback discussing a battle with "Green" Hulk. The artist was instructed to show Thor in his Classic costume, but he made a mistake that wasn't caught until after print. The artist accidently drew Thor in his current armor which gave the appearance that it was a current battle with Rhulk.

My point is, the writer written Diana stating the limits of her bracelets for a reason, to indicate that it isn't indestructible.

@Pokeysteve said:

@Delta1938:

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=wonderwoman_175_15.jpg
"Two more blows like that and he'll KILL me. Even my BRACELETS can only withstand hits like that for so long."
So, we have Wonder Woman admitting that a few more hits will break her bracelets. But wait, there's more.

Wonder Woman's opinion of her Bracelets means nothing. They have never been broken so it's impossible for her to know there limits.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=wonderwoman_175_19.jpg
http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=wonderwoman_175_26.jpg
Superman breaks her wrist, despite the protection of the bracelet, by merely grabbing it and squeezing. It would have to bend to do that, and if he can do that just by squeezing his hand, imagine what punching it would do, as Diana previously states they'd break with too many blows. So, yep, there's precedent for Superman breaking them, whether you like it or not.

His hand is clearly above her Bracelet. In the the next few pages you can see the one on her left arm and it is undamaged. Zero precedent for him breaking them. Until someone comes up with a scan of mainstream Wonder Woman's Bracelets broken or even damaged, they are indestructible.

Welcome to the Vine and awesome, awesome scans!

How exactly is it Wonder Woman's opinion means nothing? Why would she say that for no reason? Obviously she felt something. If you were talking about a bystander watching the fight and saying that, you'd have a point. But that's not the case. As for when Superman broke her wrist, no, it is NOT clearly above the bracelet. There's a small gap between where her hand ends and her bracelet begins, and we see the gap when Superman breaks her wrist. As for her RIGHT arm(I think you mixed up the arms), it being fine is irrelevant as we don't see him attack that arm.

And thanks for the welcome. You(or anybody) know how many posts I have to make before I'm no longer limited to about a half-dozen a day?

@PunkMastaFlex said:

@Pokeysteve:

Wonder Woman's opinion of her Bracelets means nothing. They have never been broken so it's impossible for her to know there limits.

My point is, the writer written Diana stating the limits of her bracelets for a reason, to indicate that it isn't indestructible.

It doesn't matter what the writer thinks. He didn't do his homework. Can you tell me how many pounds of pressure it takes to bend a steel beam? Probably not and that's because you've never done it. My point being how could one possibly know the structural limits of something that has never been dented, dinged, scratched or broken in even the slightest way.

@Delta1938 said:

@Pokeysteve said:

@Delta1938:

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=wonderwoman_175_15.jpg
"Two more blows like that and he'll KILL me. Even my BRACELETS can only withstand hits like that for so long."
So, we have Wonder Woman admitting that a few more hits will break her bracelets. But wait, there's more.

Wonder Woman's opinion of her Bracelets means nothing. They have never been broken so it's impossible for her to know there limits.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=wonderwoman_175_19.jpg
http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=wonderwoman_175_26.jpg
Superman breaks her wrist, despite the protection of the bracelet, by merely grabbing it and squeezing. It would have to bend to do that, and if he can do that just by squeezing his hand, imagine what punching it would do, as Diana previously states they'd break with too many blows. So, yep, there's precedent for Superman breaking them, whether you like it or not.

His hand is clearly above her Bracelet. In the the next few pages you can see the one on her left arm and it is undamaged. Zero precedent for him breaking them. Until someone comes up with a scan of mainstream Wonder Woman's Bracelets broken or even damaged, they are indestructible.

Welcome to the Vine and awesome, awesome scans!

How exactly is it Wonder Woman's opinion means nothing? Why would she say that for no reason? Obviously she felt something. If you were talking about a bystander watching the fight and saying that, you'd have a point. But that's not the case. As for when Superman broke her wrist, no, it is NOT clearly above the bracelet. There's a small gap between where her hand ends and her bracelet begins, and we see the gap when Superman breaks her wrist. As for her RIGHT arm(I think you mixed up the arms), it being fine is irrelevant as we don't see him attack that arm.

And thanks for the welcome. You(or anybody) know how many posts I have to make before I'm no longer limited to about a half-dozen a day?

My point with the bracelets is just that it's impossible for her to know the breaking point of something that has never been broken. Darkseid's Omega Beams and a blast from gods probably do more damage than a punched from a suped up (see what I did there =D) Superman. It is possible I got her arms mixed up but either way the point is valid. If he broke her wrist through the Bracelet then there would be damage to the Bracelet and there clearly isn't any on either of them.

No problem. I like the way you debate. I'm not sure on the post goal for unlimited posts. Check the faqs page maybe. I think that is relatively new though.

@Pokeysteve said:

It doesn't matter what the writer thinks. He didn't do his homework. Can you tell me how many pounds of pressure it takes to bend a steel beam? Probably not and that's because you've never done it. My point being how could one possibly know the structural limits of something that has never been dented, dinged, scratched or broken in even the slightest way.

@Delta1938 said:

@Pokeysteve said:

How exactly is it Wonder Woman's opinion means nothing? Why would she say that for no reason? Obviously she felt something. If you were talking about a bystander watching the fight and saying that, you'd have a point. But that's not the case. As for when Superman broke her wrist, no, it is NOT clearly above the bracelet. There's a small gap between where her hand ends and her bracelet begins, and we see the gap when Superman breaks her wrist. As for her RIGHT arm(I think you mixed up the arms), it being fine is irrelevant as we don't see him attack that arm.

And thanks for the welcome. You(or anybody) know how many posts I have to make before I'm no longer limited to about a half-dozen a day?

My point with the bracelets is just that it's impossible for her to know the breaking point of something that has never been broken. Darkseid's Omega Beams and a blast from gods probably do more damage than a punched from a suped up (see what I did there =D) Superman. It is possible I got her arms mixed up but either way the point is valid. If he broke her wrist through the Bracelet then there would be damage to the Bracelet and there clearly isn't any on either of them.

No problem. I like the way you debate. I'm not sure on the post goal for unlimited posts. Check the faqs page maybe. I think that is relatively new though.

Actually, I vaguely recall her bracelets being damaged during OBSIDIAN AGE. Will try to find it and get scans ASAP.

And unless her bracelets are brittle, he still could have broken her wrist by just applying pressure without them breaking. Metal can give without actually breaking or being out of shape. And it appears you did mix up her arms. He grabbed her left wrist with his right hand, she pops her left shoulder back in with her right arm, one we don't see being grabbed.

And I doubt Superman was amped in that fight. I've seen someone who thinks Wonder Woman is stronger than Superman try to refute that fight as Superman had the combined strength of himself and Doomsday. Yet, Wonder Woman did VERY poorly against the Brainiac-controlled Doomsday in SUPERMAN: DOOMSDAY WARS and was casually owned.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=smdoomsdaywar01_41.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=smdoomsdaywar01_42.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=smdoomsdaywar01_43.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=smdoomsdaywar01_44.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=smdoomsdaywar01_45.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=smdoomsdaywar01_46.jpg

And she rarely if ever fares well against Superman when he's not mind controlled or some similar state.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=JLA-ALeagueOfOnepg068.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=JLA-ALeagueOfOnepg069.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=JLA-ALeagueOfOnepg070.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=JLA-ALeagueOfOnepg071.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=JLA-ALeagueOfOnepg072.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=JLA-ALeagueOfOnepg073.jpg

Even says she knew she couldn't beat him. So if Superman was truly amped, had his strength combined with Doomsday's, she wouldn't have survived even in his state of mind. Now, to bring things back on topic.....

@venomoushatred1001: Still waiting for you to give an argument why you think Thor is basically as strong as Superman, as well as waiting for you to respond to the rest of my post about the topic at hand, when you only responded to the tiniest fraction of it. Here's the post to refresh your memory.

38 (11 posts) See mini bio Level 5

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@XiiX said:

@venomoushatred1001: Don't care if it's canon. Doesn't mean it makes sense. I defy you to find insurmountable evidence of Wonder Woman's structural integrity of her braclets being compromised outside of that scan. Bet you can't/won't.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=wonderwoman_175_15.jpg

"Two more blows like that and he'll KILL me. Even my BRACELETS can only withstand hits like that for so long."

So, we have Wonder Woman admitting that a few more hits will break her bracelets. But wait, there's more.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=wonderwoman_175_19.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=wonderwoman_175_26.jpg

Superman breaks her wrist, despite the protection of the bracelet, by merely grabbing it and squeezing. It would have to bend to do that, and if he can do that just by squeezing his hand, imagine what punching it would do, as Diana previously states they'd break with too many blows. So, yep, there's precedent for Superman breaking them, whether you like it or not.

Also, it wasn't an alternate reality. Pokeysteve had the better term with "alternate timeline," but it wasn't like a divergent timeline. Past had been changed, Superman and Batman eventually learn the truth, and work to set things back to how they're supposed to be. So yeah, I think that qualifies as canon.

@venomoushatred1001: While I would give Thor the majority over Wonder Woman, for you to say there's no way she could win is ridiculous. You're arguing Thor fighting out of character and at the least using a borderline No Limits Fallacy. For example, the soul manipulation thing? You're not showing the actual examples, and so far the ONLY instance we've seen was A: Not actually in battle, B: required a few moments of prep, C: had Loki just standing there the entire time, and D: showed Thor essentially used it as a last resort. What you're describing, what was the context of Thor releasing their souls just like that? Did he have the Odin-Force helping him? Did the fact that the Asgardians weren't in their proper bodies have anything to do with it? Because it being as easy as you're claiming contradicts the only example shown thus far.

And he'll just manipulate her molecules? How often does he even USE matter manipulation, let alone in a fight? The only examples I know of where he using it DIRECTLY on his opponent is against Absorbing Man, someone who's powers make this a much more viable and logical tactic to use against than someone more like Wonder Woman. Plus, how do you know that the NATURE of Absorbing Man's powers didn't effect how easy it was to actually use this? And, like I pointed-out before, the odds of him actually using this are very, very unlikely from what I know.

On Mjolnir will always travel thousands of times lightspeed when used against her, whether it be matter manipulation or just plain attacking her, how is it ONE example of it happening means Mjolnir always travels at those speeds? Mjolnir's been dodged before by people who don't even have any super speed. And here's another thing: I see you like people to prove the durability of Wonder Woman's bracelets and dismiss examples used to back their arguments. How about you prove that Mjolnir really can travel that fast? Mjolnir has space-warping capabilities, how do you know that Mjolnir wasn't just bending space to shorten the distance in that one instance?

In regards to Thor going intangible to avoid the Lasso, never heard of Thor being able to turn intangible before. But good for him if he can, not a valid argument. Unless you give him foreknowledge, I don't see why he'd phase to avoid it. And while I don't know if it can lasso an intangible being(will have to check that) it has shown to restrain those who CAN turn intangible by basically commanding them. Martian Manhunter has been restrained by it before, so even if it can't contain an intangible being, Thor would have no reason to avoid it without knowing he wouldn't be able to escape. Assuming she didn't just super-speed tie him up like she did to Amazo. And if neither Amazo or Superboy Prime could break free, Thor sure ain't.

Now, to tell you why it's ridiculous that Wonder Woman can't ever beat Thor. Yes, he's stronger than her and overall more powerful with his versatility. But the whole being in-character thing? Being in character, Thor fights someone like Wonder Woman, he'll be using little to none of his versatility in the vast majority of fights. He's stronger and more durable than her, but she's faster and more skilled. This will give her the edge to be able to win some fights when Thor is going to mostly make it a face-punching contest to ONLY having it as a face-punching contest. As for her beating Beta Ray Bill, I can't answer that as I've seen little of BRB to know if he'd be more likely to use his versatility advantage or not than Thor.

But hey, since you're taking things to the absolute best of what characters can do and are kinda arguing theoretically, we apply that to the laddies here, then they win every time. All the versatility in the world won't help very much against those with a speed advantage like here. Being more versatile and powerful won't do much good if they beat your face in before you can blink. Good thing I'm not arguing theoretical.

Oh yeah and I had a good laugh at your claim that if Superman can break Wonder Woman's bracelets, that Thor can too.

@tensor said:

@MyronLee26:

hear is one for you an all your thor fans simple use her speed an tie them up end of fight they cannot break diana lasso

Good point .

@PunkMastaFlex said:

@Pokeysteve:

Wonder Woman's opinion of her Bracelets means nothing. They have never been broken so it's impossible for her to know there limits.

Doesn't mean a thing. Balder knows Hulk's limits when he was talking with Thor yet he's never engaged him in combat nor was even there to watch:

~ On a side note for the scan from - Hammer and Sinew -

(In an interview with Kevin Grevioux; He stated that the artist accidently put Thor in his "current" armor, in the top half of the panel. Thor was supposed to be in his "classic" costume)

Also, according to an interview with the writer Kevin Grevioux, when asked about that issue; He stated that the sequence was written to be a flashback discussing a battle with "Green" Hulk. The artist was instructed to show Thor in his Classic costume, but he made a mistake that wasn't caught until after print. The artist accidently drew Thor in his current armor which gave the appearance that it was a current battle with Rhulk.

My point is, the writer written Diana stating the limits of her bracelets for a reason, to indicate that it isn't indestructible.

Now this Scan i keep seen it . is this even cannon ? I am not sure if this fall in the regular marvel Cont.

now Diana bracelets have never been broken unlike Thor Hammer its been Broken so many times . I am not even talking about that Hulk scan because i dont recall reading all of that comic and Hulk doing that. Wonder woman bracelets have always said to be unbreakable so i am not sure what you trying to prove here and the girls have more power to dish out as well .

Thats not the only Problem the Girls strength is no Joke i recall Power girl hitting Diana so hard that she blocked and didnt know she was knocked across a few counties that fast and so hard. Power girls and diana is strong one thing Thor always had going for him is Magic against most villains and heroes Well Diana got it . Bill will have the hardest time with Powergirl because she gets out of control at times and well powerful. It would be difficult for even Bill to Push her off or Knock her out if hse gets serious or angry . Power girl is the better fighter too . the speed there is way too much even for Thor Thor would be violated bill too .

Team 1 wins.

@Delta1938 said:

@Pokeysteve said:

It doesn't matter what the writer thinks. He didn't do his homework. Can you tell me how many pounds of pressure it takes to bend a steel beam? Probably not and that's because you've never done it. My point being how could one possibly know the structural limits of something that has never been dented, dinged, scratched or broken in even the slightest way.

@Delta1938 said:

@Pokeysteve said:

How exactly is it Wonder Woman's opinion means nothing? Why would she say that for no reason? Obviously she felt something. If you were talking about a bystander watching the fight and saying that, you'd have a point. But that's not the case. As for when Superman broke her wrist, no, it is NOT clearly above the bracelet. There's a small gap between where her hand ends and her bracelet begins, and we see the gap when Superman breaks her wrist. As for her RIGHT arm(I think you mixed up the arms), it being fine is irrelevant as we don't see him attack that arm.

And thanks for the welcome. You(or anybody) know how many posts I have to make before I'm no longer limited to about a half-dozen a day?

My point with the bracelets is just that it's impossible for her to know the breaking point of something that has never been broken. Darkseid's Omega Beams and a blast from gods probably do more damage than a punched from a suped up (see what I did there =D) Superman. It is possible I got her arms mixed up but either way the point is valid. If he broke her wrist through the Bracelet then there would be damage to the Bracelet and there clearly isn't any on either of them.

No problem. I like the way you debate. I'm not sure on the post goal for unlimited posts. Check the faqs page maybe. I think that is relatively new though.

Actually, I vaguely recall her bracelets being damaged during OBSIDIAN AGE. Will try to find it and get scans ASAP.

And unless her bracelets are brittle, he still could have broken her wrist by just applying pressure without them breaking. Metal can give without actually breaking or being out of shape. And it appears you did mix up her arms. He grabbed her left wrist with his right hand, she pops her left shoulder back in with her right arm, one we don't see being grabbed.

And I doubt Superman was amped in that fight. I've seen someone who thinks Wonder Woman is stronger than Superman try to refute that fight as Superman had the combined strength of himself and Doomsday. Yet, Wonder Woman did VERY poorly against the Brainiac-controlled Doomsday in SUPERMAN: DOOMSDAY WARS and was casually owned.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=smdoomsdaywar01_41.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=smdoomsdaywar01_42.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=smdoomsdaywar01_43.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=smdoomsdaywar01_44.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=smdoomsdaywar01_45.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/?action=view&current=smdoomsdaywar01_46.jpg

And she rarely if ever fares well against Superman when he's not mind controlled or some similar state.

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=JLA-ALeagueOfOnepg068.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=JLA-ALeagueOfOnepg069.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=JLA-ALeagueOfOnepg070.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=JLA-ALeagueOfOnepg071.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=JLA-ALeagueOfOnepg072.jpg

http://s1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa466/Delta1938/Superman%20VS%20Wonder%20Woman/?action=view&current=JLA-ALeagueOfOnepg073.jpg

Even says she knew she couldn't beat him. So if Superman was truly amped, had his strength combined with Doomsday's, she wouldn't have survived even in his state of mind. Now, to bring things back on topic....

So you're suggesting that her bracelets can be bent by Superman but not permanently damaged? Doesn't that defeat their whole purpose? What is the point of them if they are going to bend. After looking at the scans again I actually did get the arms right. He breaks her left arm and we see that left bracelet on the next page on the arm that's being put back into place. I think I just explained it wrong the first time. There is actually a thread about the most durable objects in comics. Thor's hammer, Cap's Shield, WW's Bracelets and one or two more things on it.

Superman was definitely amped in his bloodlusted state. I've never heard him and Doomsday's strength were combined. I KNOW I've never heard anyone think, let alone argue, that she was stronger haha that's just crazy talk.

The League of One scans - I've never read the story but it's pretty clear she wasn't really trying. She just wanted him out of there. I don't think they've ever truly fought when neither of them was mind controlled or something along those lines . Wonder Woman vs Superman is debatable.

@Thor's hammmer said:

Team one murders.

Does PG have the magic weakness? I know she like a lot of characters might not be immune to it, but is it a crippling weakness that makes her automatically lose?

in fact team two is stronger than team one,but,

i think team one wins,because PG is weake has the magic,Thor has many versatility

powergirl and wonder woman stronger than team one but team two still wins

over

It's not a stomp for either team, but team 1 wins the majority

@Killemall said:

@venomoushatred1001 said:

Team 1. Thor > Wonder Woman. Beta Ray Bill > Power Girl.

OR we could put it as Thor = BRB > WW or PG.

I must disagree. BRB>Thor>WW or PG

Bill beats Thor.

@Richter said:

@Killemall said:

I must disagree. BRB>Thor>WW or PG

Bill beats Thor.

Well this is certainly debatable since thor has beaten BRB too and BRB has beaten Thor. They would both lose to current Surfer. There isnt a lot between them. Thor has more feats only because he has 10 times more appearence than BRB.

@a88378438 said:

powergirl and wonder woman stronger than team one but team two still wins

over

Wonder Woman being more skilled than Thor and BRB i can understand them being stronger i dont. Thor has better strength feats i still dont understand why you rate them stronger. Any particular reason? i might be missing few things let e know.

Team 1.

Team 1.

O.O Power girl...Im in love >_<

I dont see how team 2 has a chance.

@CitizenBane said:

Team 1.

Just a quick question are you buying the fact that both of them are stronger than Thor or BRB?

WW can take on either BRB or Thor BUT PG is the weak link bringing in defeat for her team, team thor FTW

@Killemall said:

@a88378438 said:

powergirl and wonder woman stronger than team one but team two still wins

over

Wonder Woman being more skilled than Thor and BRB i can understand them being stronger i dont. Thor has better strength feats i still dont understand why you rate them stronger. Any particular reason? i might be missing few things let e know.

Thor has better strength feats i still dont understand why you rate them stronger

thor has better strength feats?