Theme Battle Toueny R1 Jediwaffles vs Nickthedevil

@CadenceV2 said:

@nickthedevil: @JediWaffles: However it cant be defended against as everyone speed is Mach 1 here. So no one is legaly fast enough in this to couter the Flute. If some have resisted the effect then it could be argued that Space Marines (with 100s of years of will power and mind disciplin against such things of Chaos) can do the same. Further more the Warp can be argued as defence against it as it to in many forms simply is. We all know God of the DC Universe can negate the Omega Beams (effect) like nothing so can the power of Warp as it is the comparable same as the Source.

Run with this. I may not know alot of DC but I know alot of 40K and Space Marines can be tortured with the worst for days and mentally resist temptation or breaking of will power than most of those Rogues. They should be able to resist and the Librarien Warp Mind should be even more resisting thanks to his Psy Hood.

Matters which Rogues you're talking about. Roscoe brought himself back on pure willpower alone, and Captain Cold is probably the most stubborn, and less likely to break than anyone else. like ever. fact that he resisted Libra's voice in the scan above^^^^ While others like Lex Luthor and Joker were affected by it, gives him pretty good feats in that department.

@nickthedevil: @JediWaffles: There ya go. It can be countered. For the Record I know Lucius Will Power is top notch as he enjoys Plaesure and nothing else can sway him. Hence why he is immortal. Also Kharn will Power been tested mutiple times by the Lash of Submission and Slaanesh own Allure, both suppose to be irresistable and Kharn connection with Khorn along with his complete Hate broke thru both those barriers in Glaxy in Flames.

So both those and the Librariun own reinforce Psychic Mind should resist. The last 2 I cant speak for. They might succomb.

With this in mind Game on.

Not to rush you Candace but..........can........you put up a new strategy on our match.

@YoungJustice: What ya mean?

You said you were coming up with a new strategy. Sorry I can't direct reply, on a tablet.

@nickthedevil said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@nickthedevil: @JediWaffles: However it cant be defended against as everyone speed is Mach 1 here. So no one is legaly fast enough in this to couter the Flute. If some have resisted the effect then it could be argued that Space Marines (with 100s of years of will power and mind disciplin against such things of Chaos) can do the same. Further more the Warp can be argued as defence against it as it to in many forms simply is. We all know God of the DC Universe can negate the Omega Beams (effect) like nothing so can the power of Warp as it is the comparable same as the Source.

Run with this. I may not know alot of DC but I know alot of 40K and Space Marines can be tortured with the worst for days and mentally resist temptation or breaking of will power than most of those Rogues. They should be able to resist and the Librarien Warp Mind should be even more resisting thanks to his Psy Hood.

Matters which Rogues you're talking about. Roscoe brought himself back on pure willpower alone, and Captain Cold is probably the most stubborn, and less likely to break than anyone else. like ever. fact that he resisted Libra's voice in the scan above^^^^ While others like Lex Luthor and Joker were affected by it, gives him pretty good feats in that department.

Fairly sure the Marines have better willpower. There is this test some marines go through, to prove their mettle. They are suspended in the air, a clamp around their body. Every day, the clamp tightens. They have to remain suspended for days, to prove themselves. This one captain, easily a lesser man than anyone on my team, stayed up there FOR A MONTH. No food, the clamp shattering every rib, and his spine. Yet he remained suspended. The hardest part was that you have to always keep every muscle flexed. The moment you try and relax a muscle to catch a break, the clamp tightens quickly, leaving you with even less space. I think there's a fair chance some can break through the Piper's effect. As Cadence mentioned, Lucius and Kharn can do so easily.

My main argument against the Piper is Zahariel. Before he touches lips to flute, Zahariel instantly goes into Terrorsight, because of the threat. Time is slowed to a crawl for all but him, and he simply rips out Piper's heart.

@JediWaffles said:

@nickthedevil said:

@CadenceV2 said:

@nickthedevil: @JediWaffles: However it cant be defended against as everyone speed is Mach 1 here. So no one is legaly fast enough in this to couter the Flute. If some have resisted the effect then it could be argued that Space Marines (with 100s of years of will power and mind disciplin against such things of Chaos) can do the same. Further more the Warp can be argued as defence against it as it to in many forms simply is. We all know God of the DC Universe can negate the Omega Beams (effect) like nothing so can the power of Warp as it is the comparable same as the Source.

Run with this. I may not know alot of DC but I know alot of 40K and Space Marines can be tortured with the worst for days and mentally resist temptation or breaking of will power than most of those Rogues. They should be able to resist and the Librarien Warp Mind should be even more resisting thanks to his Psy Hood.

Matters which Rogues you're talking about. Roscoe brought himself back on pure willpower alone, and Captain Cold is probably the most stubborn, and less likely to break than anyone else. like ever. fact that he resisted Libra's voice in the scan above^^^^ While others like Lex Luthor and Joker were affected by it, gives him pretty good feats in that department.

Fairly sure the Marines have better willpower. There is this test some marines go through, to prove their mettle. They are suspended in the air, a clamp around their body. Every day, the clamp tightens. They have to remain suspended for days, to prove themselves. This one captain, easily a lesser man than anyone on my team, stayed up there FOR A MONTH. No food, the clamp shattering every rib, and his spine. Yet he remained suspended. The hardest part was that you have to always keep every muscle flexed. The moment you try and relax a muscle to catch a break, the clamp tightens quickly, leaving you with even less space. I think there's a fair chance some can break through the Piper's effect. As Cadence mentioned, Lucius and Kharn can do so easily.

My main argument against the Piper is Zahariel. Before he touches lips to flute, Zahariel instantly goes into Terrorsight, because of the threat. Time is slowed to a crawl for all but him, and he simply rips out Piper's heart.

Hm... if this tourney is going to impede my Omega effect, than that should be impeded as well. not sure, but it sounds like you basically have a Zoom.

@JediWaffles: @nickthedevil: Time Slowing (or stopping) should not be allowed either. Its undefendable against.

@CadenceV2: You got it. that seems more fair.

Can one of you guys vote on our match please.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles/7/theme-battle-tourney-r1-cadencev2-vs-youngjustice/689842/#

@YoungJustice: that Desperate to loose? lol

@CadenceV2 said:

@YoungJustice: that Desperate to loose? lol

very funny...............

@nickthedevil: It's kind of a one-of thing though. It happens, Zahariel can probably kill off one guy (Piper), and then he won't be able to do it for the rest of the scenario. It can be countered as well, if you have a better speed/reaction time than him. I'll leave it up to @CadenceV2 to decide, because right now, that's my main argument against Piper.

@JediWaffles: I dont think it should be allowed. Time Slowing is a trick thing in tourneys. Also my limts on Speed doesnt help either.

@CadenceV2: Alright then. Without Terrorsight, it's going to have to rest upon Khar/Lucius/Zahariel to resist the Omega Effect, which i believe is completely feasible, and then take out the Piper. From that point on, all my previous points stand and i still believe in an all-out firefight, the marines are simply too strong.

@JediWaffles: @nickthedevil: It seems both are done and ready for votes?

@CadenceV2: Hrm... I believe I can still bring along more points. one: being that Captain Cold's gun stopped Superman (Off Panel) and Superboy (on panel). The armor of the marines doesn't prevent against absolute zero, and the cease of movement in electrons and protons. that's key here, I believe. and to boot, Captain Cold always carries an Ice grenade as a last resort.

@nickthedevil: Go ahead and post your last minuet scans and rebutals.

For some reason, Comicvine is being a D*ck and not letting me upload anything. But I can provdie the issue number, arc name, and page number, as well as panel number.

It was Flash Volume 2, Issue 166, Wonderland, page 10, panel 5.

Just upload them into Animevice or Giant bomb then copy the image.

Been thinking about this for awhile & imo the Pipers Anti-Life-equation might not have the effect he was hopeing for here against team JediWaffles.

Kharn being a Chaos Marine has had the full force of the Warp go through his being & if im correct The ALE works on the mind & imo just as it didnt work on Static the same could be said here because his mind is now beyond converting.

The same could be said for the rest of the roster good or bad they have either withstood the Warp or embraced it.

I think Lucius and Kharn (who withstood Slaanesh own Allure and Lash of Submission in the same battle) would not care as Captain Cold not cared.

Hah! With Dr. alchemy's barrier, and Piper can target their nervous systems, lock up their muscles completly. Instant paralyzation. It's not a mind thing, it just is. The same way he affected Brother Eye. Look him up, he's DC's Ultron.

To add, you also have to deal with Top's tricks. Tricks like his perception changers. He controls the way retina's perceive light, and can change them thusly to his whim. Captain Cold, Heatwave, Zatanna, Flash, and Pied Piper were all under his thumb when he did so. It's not a matter of will, but so much as being able to keep coordinate with things twisted. Granted, the marines might not get vertigo, but they will sure as hell be uncoordinated. Imagine spinning and that's how their sight is reduced.

@Chaos Prime said:

Been thinking about this for awhile & imo the Pipers Anti-Life-equation might not have the effect he was hopeing for here against team JediWaffles.

Kharn being a Chaos Marine has had the full force of the Warp go through his being & if im correct The ALE works on the mind & imo just as it didnt work on Static the same could be said here because his mind is now beyond converting.

The same could be said for the rest of the roster good or bad they have either withstood the Warp or embraced it.

Exactly which is why Kharn and Lucius wouldn't succumb to it's effects in my opinion, as well as Zahariel for he's heavily influenced by the Warp; more so than the other two in fact.

@nickthedevil said:

Hah! With Dr. alchemy's barrier, and Piper can target their nervous systems, lock up their muscles completly. Instant paralyzation. It's not a mind thing, it just is. The same way he affected Brother Eye. Look him up, he's DC's Ultron.

Dr. Alchemy's barrier? I though CC had the barrier haha.

@nickthedevil said:

To add, you also have to deal with Top's tricks. Tricks like his perception changers. He controls the way retina's perceive light, and can change them thusly to his whim. Captain Cold, Heatwave, Zatanna, Flash, and Pied Piper were all under his thumb when he did so. It's not a matter of will, but so much as being able to keep coordinate with things twisted. Granted, the marines might not get vertigo, but they will sure as hell be uncoordinated. Imagine spinning and that's how their sight is reduced.

It's not only that the marines don't get vertigo, they're physiologies allow them to battle in any circumstances, they aren't unnerved or unsettled by anything, and they can adjust to situations in an instant. If the Top switches around their perception by altering the way light enters their retinas, their minds/bodies will, in a microsecond, adjust to it and they will move/react accordingly. So at best, Top buys your team a half-second or so of time.

@nickthedevil said:

@CadenceV2: Hrm... I believe I can still bring along more points. one: being that Captain Cold's gun stopped Superman (Off Panel) and Superboy (on panel). The armor of the marines doesn't prevent against absolute zero, and the cease of movement in electrons and protons. that's key here, I believe. and to boot, Captain Cold always carries an Ice grenade as a last resort.

Just my opinion, but if you have something that is able to stop Superman and Superboy, then i instantly lose. Should that be allowed?

@JediWaffles: Not when you see how it works. The gun works by takiing away the kinetic energy from electrons and protons. It didn't kill them, nor hurt them. But it froze them up. It was enough to let them escape.

@nickthedevil said:

@JediWaffles: Not when you see how it works. The gun works by takiing away the kinetic energy from electrons and protons. It didn't kill them, nor hurt them. But it froze them up. It was enough to let them escape.

How does it hit a target though? A beam or projectile should be fairly easy to dodge for my marines. If you can post scans that'd be great so i can see just how they work.

@JediWaffles:

It shoots like a lightning ray. And no, but I highly Doubt your space marines are dodging his cold ray. He hits Kid Zoom, and flash on just about a weekly basis. He is known for being one of the best marksmen with a gun in the DCU.

Why are you still debating. I want it to end damn it.

@YoungJustice said:

Why are you still debating. I want it to end damn it.

because apparently, the Space Marines are a higher threat than the Flash.

Im going to make a thread on Giant Bomb about it.

@nickthedevil said:

@YoungJustice said:

Why are you still debating. I want it to end damn it.

because apparently, the Space Marines are a higher threat than the Flash.

Some are.... very very few......

@YoungJustice said:

Im going to make a thread on Giant Bomb about it.

bout what?

imo the logic that because CC has beaten the Flash he gets the win here doesnt work.Deadshot can/could take out CC but the Flash? never in a random encounter without a load amount of PIS or prep.

Yes CC has the firepower to stop em in their tracks but were talking about a roster here that go up against foes usuing all kinds of tech be it reality warping guns/Bio weapons/Psykic etc etc..Imo they all wont go down from a shot from CC, one perhaps but then CC will no longer be standing to take down another foe imo.

@nickthedevil said:

@JediWaffles:

It shoots like a lightning ray. And no, but I highly Doubt your space marines are dodging his cold ray. He hits Kid Zoom, and flash on just about a weekly basis. He is known for being one of the best marksmen with a gun in the DCU.

Okay, so hes a good shot. So what. He can't draw or shoot faster than a Marine can. He's a human. No matter what you say, a Space Marine, physically, is better in ALL POSSIBLE ASPECTS than a human is. If Captain Cold can shoot well, a marine can shoot 10 times as well. Okay, he's an incredible shot, and has hit the Flash, but he still can't outdraw a Marine, so before he can pull off anything, he's dead.

@YoungJustice said:
because apparently, the Space Marines are a higher threat than the Flash.

Simply cause CC has beaten the Flash doesn't mean he can beat a Marine.

i vote for nickthedevil

@nickthedevil@JediWaffles

Wait, is this open for voting, now?

@JediWaffles said:

@nickthedevil said:

@JediWaffles:

It shoots like a lightning ray. And no, but I highly Doubt your space marines are dodging his cold ray. He hits Kid Zoom, and flash on just about a weekly basis. He is known for being one of the best marksmen with a gun in the DCU.

Okay, so hes a good shot. So what. He can't draw or shoot faster than a Marine can. He's a human. No matter what you say, a Space Marine, physically, is better in ALL POSSIBLE ASPECTS than a human is. If Captain Cold can shoot well, a marine can shoot 10 times as well. Okay, he's an incredible shot, and has hit the Flash, but he still can't outdraw a Marine, so before he can pull off anything, he's dead.

@YoungJustice said:
because apparently, the Space Marines are a higher threat than the Flash.

Simply cause CC has beaten the Flash doesn't mean he can beat a Marine.

Have you any proof that a marine has better quick draw than the rogues? If so, please show me.

@nickthedevil: I'll throw in some book excerpts when i get home.

@Esquire said:

@nickthedevil@JediWaffles

Wait, is this open for voting, now?

In a day or so, it should be.

@JediWaffles said:

@nickthedevil: I'll throw in some book excerpts when i get home.

@Esquire said:

@nickthedevil@JediWaffles

Wait, is this open for voting, now?

In a day or so, it should be.

By Thursday moring. Finish it up before then.

"Transhuman responses are already there, unbidden. Adrenaline spikes to heighten an already formidable reaction time. Muscle remembers. Luciel wears his boltgun, an oiled black pit bull of a weapon, in his thigh holster. He can draw, aim and fire in less than a second. The range is six metres, the target unobstructed. There is no chance ofmissing. Maximus plate, frontally augmented, might stop a mass-reactive shell, so Luciel will fire two and aim for the visor slits. The airgate skin-sleeve is self-repairing, and will survive las-fire damage, but a bolter shot will shred it open, so Luciel also braces for the explosive decompression of a ricochet or a miss-hit. At a simple, subconscious neural urge, boot-sole electromagnets charge to clamp onto the deck plates.
Luciel thinks theoretical, but of course there is no theoretical. There is no tactical precedent for a Space Marine to fight a Space Marine. The idea is nonsense. He thinks practical, and that directs him to the visor slits. He can make a clean kill headshot in less than a second and a half, two rounds for kill insurance, and probably protect the atmospheric integrity of the airgate.
All this, all this decided, unbidden, instinctive, in less than a nanosecond."

Lucius' speed and skill:

The Megarchnid lunged out of the suddenly vibrating stalks in front of them and decapitated Kercort with a flick of its upper left blade. Even stationary it was a hyperactive blur, as if its metabolism, its very life, move at a rate far faster than that of the enhanced Geneseed warrior of Chemos.

It was with some surpise that Tarvitz discovered his fellow captian Lucius thought differantly. As they pushed on, Lucius boated he was playing the enemy.
"It's like duelling with four swordsman at once," Lucius crowed. Lucius was a Bladesman. To Tarvitz knowledge, Lucuis has never been bested at swordplay.

During the Twelfth attack, Tarvitz witnesses Lucius at work for the first time. Lucius met a Megarachnid head on, and set up a flurry of dazzling, ringing blows, his two blades againt the creatures four. Tarvitz saw three opportunities for a straight kill stroke that Lucius didnt so much miss as he choose not to take. He was enjoying himself so much that he didnt want the game to end to soon.

More to come, once i find the right passages on my kindle, which is hard as all hell to do.

@JediWaffles: @nickthedevil: Ill hold my vote for a bit longer until I can read a few more scans. However, I would like to point out that dodging/hitting the Flash doesnt mean a character has to be ftl or even hypersonic to hit them....also Im not entirely convinced warhammer chars can tank these hits as well as youd think.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

@Floopay said:

@JediWaffles: @nickthedevil: Ill hold my vote for a bit longer until I can read a few more scans. However, I would like to point out that dodging/hitting the Flash doesnt mean a character has to be ftl or even hypersonic to hit them....also Im not entirely convinced warhammer chars can tank these hits as well as youd think.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Didn't say they were. Their reflexes are honed to deal with them though. Ask any DC enthusiast. It's widely accepted that Captain Cold and the Rogues are the quickest drawers in comics.

@nickthedevil said:

@Floopay said:

@JediWaffles: @nickthedevil: Ill hold my vote for a bit longer until I can read a few more scans. However, I would like to point out that dodging/hitting the Flash doesnt mean a character has to be ftl or even hypersonic to hit them....also Im not entirely convinced warhammer chars can tank these hits as well as youd think.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Didn't say they were. Their reflexes are honed to deal with them though. Ask any DC enthusiast. It's widely accepted that Captain Cold and the Rogues are the quickest drawers in comics.

I dont doubt/deny that, just pointing out my current observations.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

@Floopay: Personaly Loken and Tarvitz go down to most of those Cold/Flame attacks. The Libraruin could put up a Psy Barreir (Force Barrier) that be as effective as Jean Force Field or Invisibles Woman. Lucius and Kharn have Chaos Energy (Lucius more so than Kharn) to tank attacks in energy form as easy as there armour can in physical form. But only for a short time.

@Floopay: I'd put up a stronger argument, but i didn't have time. Although it pretty much sums up to the fact that they can tank a hit, albeit not for a prolonged time, whereas each of the Rogues get one-shotted.

VOTING TIME!!!!!!!! Ilookoing for at least 3 votes.

I vote for nick.

I Have to vote for Nickthedevil

I also give this to nick.