The Wolverine vs Daken Debate - Battles

#1 Edited by RainEffect (3240 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

I did a search prior to this and found that there was actually a lack of topics created about this. Most included X-23 in a triple-threat match. So, after much thought, I decided to compile this.

Setting/Rules

No muramasa blades/Daken doesn't have his claws merged with muramasa metal
No ambushes/traps
They begin on a rooftop in Hell's Kitchen, and it's raining (similar to when Daken fought Punisher)
Both are prepared for the fight, but they don't bring any side weapons
I would say to the death, but, it's kind of hard with their factors. I suppose its whoever takes more than twenty-seconds to get up off the ground.

Comparing Their Traits

Wolverine:

Adamantium skeleton
More experienced fighter
Arguably stronger than Daken

Daken:

More agile due to lack of adamantium
Healing factor is faster due to lack of adamantium
More psychotic

Begin your debate, lads and lasses!

#2 Posted by Westlife (1636 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

I would think(or at least hope) that if Wolverine would stop crying about his son, who clearly doesn't care about him and is often the one trying to kill him, and stop helping him whenever he feels he's in trouble, Daken would be dead by now.

#3 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Westlife: I assume what you meant by that was that Daken's only alive because Logan keeps saving his life?

If so, that's entirely untrue. Daken has done some pretty amazing things since he's been introduced. He elaborately blackmailed/murdered his way to becoming kingpin of Madripoor (his 'empire'), he's taken on a variety of deadly fighters (Demonically possessed Wolverine, X-23, Punisher etc). He doesn't get enough credit, honestly.

#4 Edited by Westlife (1636 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@RainEffect: I'm saying I hope so. What I really mean is I don't like it that Daken is constantly trying to kill Wolverine and his friends, and yet Wolverine doesn't want anyone else to fight him. Can't wait for X-23 to fight him and fights anyone who tries to fight him. I hope she kicks his ass(wish Wolverine and Gambit would be there to see it).

#5 Posted by katanalauncher (926 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

Wolverine wins with morals off.

#6 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@katanalauncher: Bleh ... this is why I try and explain battles as much as possible - so it enthuses people to post a reasoning.

Why does he win? How does he win?

#7 Posted by Blood_guts (1311 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@RainEffect: you said that his healing factor is worse with adamantium? it was my understanding that it was in fact better because his body was constantly rejecting it and so is forced to be at a consistant level and a high one at that in terms of healing speed.

#8 Posted by SoA (3529 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Blood_guts: wolverine's body sees the adamantium as a foreign substance so it slows down his healing since the adamantium is poisonus and its focusing on preventing him from getting poisoned . when he had just bone claws it was said he healed alot faster than with adamantium

#9 Posted by Blood_guts (1311 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@SoA said:

@Blood_guts: wolverine's body sees the adamantium as a foreign substance so it slows down his healing since the adamantium is poisonus and its focusing on preventing him from getting poisoned . when he had just bone claws it was said he healed alot faster than with adamantium

i understand the foreign substance bit but i had a conversation about this, specifically deadpool's healing factor vs wolverine's. my friend told me that the consistency of wolverine's healing factor versus deadpool's sporadic healing is because of the adamantium. also my friend seemed to be under the impression this over working of his system put his healing factor into overdrive making it work better than bone claw. is there any truth to this you think?

#10 Posted by SoA (3529 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Blood_guts: no , not really lol. if there is any depictions showing otherwise it may have to be whoever is writing for wolverine . deadpool is essentially immortal and can grow back a head . ive never known wolverine to do that . near decapitations , disembowelment always kept wolverine down for a time . also in what-if or alternate world stories if wolverine lost his healing factor his skin boiled up or sores started appearing proof of the metal poisoning , wolverine can heal fast but when its heavy damage like what i mentioned above he takes his time to heal . bone claw version i think his only drawback was bones didnt heal as fast so if he broke any bones it would be awhile. if anyone can prove otherwise by all means speak up lol

#11 Posted by MagneticTempest (190 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

Wolverine is always better than Daken. 125 estimated years life of fighting and killing experience vs how ever old is Daken and whenever he started train and killing.

#12 Posted by Fluke-buddha (644 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

With morals off Wolverine definitely wins. He has waaaaaayyyyyyyyy more training than Daken, and a wealth of battle experience. The only reason Logan hasn't already killed him is because it's his kid.

#13 Edited by RainEffect (3240 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Blood_guts said:

@RainEffect: you said that his healing factor is worse with adamantium? it was my understanding that it was in fact better because his body was constantly rejecting it and so is forced to be at a consistant level and a high one at that in terms of healing speed.

It's an interesting theory, but think about it this way.

If you have a cold, your immune system devotes its energy (white blood cells) to fight off the sickness, therefore other portions of your body may suffer (dehydration, sore nose from constant blowing, exhaustion due to constant battle). It's the same with Wolverine, his immune system is rapidly fighting off an invasive poison and devoting much of its energy and concentration on the adamantium not killing him. As SoA said, Logan stated his healing factor was much more effective without the metal because it could devote full capabilities into healing.

This is further cemented in the X-23 and Daken issues where they heal almost immediately from pretty lethal things, as they don't have an adamantium skeleton (though Laura has the claws and talons, of course).

#14 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (15773 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

Wolverine him self said Daken was better than him. Daken is also 10x more interesting character than Wolverine

#15 Posted by HellionVulcan (2470 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

Wolverine him self said Daken was better than him. Daken is also 10x more interesting character than Wolverine

hahahaha i agree even thou daken currently being a drug addict ruins him but pheromones will also wreck wolverine .

#16 Posted by ReVamp (22561 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

Wolverine him self said Daken was better than him. Daken is also 10x more interesting character than Wolverine

-.-. I am not amused. :P

#17 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (15773 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@spiderbat87 said:
Wolverine him self said Daken was better than him. Daken is also 10x more interesting character than Wolverine
-.-. I am not amused. :P

Alas it is true

#18 Posted by ReVamp (22561 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

@ReVamp said:
@spiderbat87 said:
Wolverine him self said Daken was better than him. Daken is also 10x more interesting character than Wolverine
-.-. I am not amused. :P
Alas it is true

Not truly.

#19 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (15773 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@spiderbat87 said:
@ReVamp said:
@spiderbat87 said:
Wolverine him self said Daken was better than him. Daken is also 10x more interesting character than Wolverine
-.-. I am not amused. :P
Alas it is true
Not truly.

I'm afraid it is

#20 Posted by CitizenBane (19888 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

Logan has the experience, Daken has the pheromones. That's what it comes down to, imo. You'd think Wolverine would be immune to the pheromones, since he spends his life knee deep in them, but.....I don't know.

Online

#21 Posted by MagneticTempest (190 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

Oh c'on. Wolverine has his share of experience sniffing and tasting the pheromones of other enemies before. Omega Red being the most distinct of the kind.

#22 Posted by ReVamp (22561 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

@ReVamp said:
@spiderbat87 said:
@ReVamp said:
@spiderbat87 said:
Wolverine him self said Daken was better than him. Daken is also 10x more interesting character than Wolverine
-.-. I am not amused. :P
Alas it is true
Not truly.
I'm afraid it is

I'm afraid it subjective. :P

#23 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (15773 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Logan has the experience, Daken has the pheromones. That's what it comes down to, imo. You'd think Wolverine would be immune to the pheromones, since he spends his life knee deep in them, but.....I don't know.

Logen said that daken was better

#24 Posted by CitizenBane (19888 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@spiderbat87 said:

@CitizenBane said:
Logan has the experience, Daken has the pheromones. That's what it comes down to, imo. You'd think Wolverine would be immune to the pheromones, since he spends his life knee deep in them, but.....I don't know.
Logen said that daken was better

Logan can say whatever he wants, there should be a decisive on-panel fight between the two. Or barring that, a side-by-side evaluation of their respective skills and abilities. Comic books are filled with characters making statements that aren't necessarily true.

Online

#25 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Logan has the experience, Daken has the pheromones. That's what it comes down to, imo. You'd think Wolverine would be immune to the pheromones, since he spends his life knee deep in them, but.....I don't know.

You would also think that there might be some form of resistance considering they are from his flesh and blood.

Although, that'd be one heck of an 'F-You' to the old man to mess with his mental stability mid-fight.

#26 Posted by comicdude23 (11075 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

Wolverine has more experience over Daken, he's been through a-lot more, he's also had more fighting skill and can take more punishment.

#27 Posted by HellionVulcan (2470 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@MagneticTempest said:

Oh c'on. Wolverine has his share of experience sniffing and tasting the pheromones of other enemies before. Omega Red being the most distinct of the kind.

Omega red's & Dakens Pheromones work differently thou omega red's are fatal while Dakens changes peoples perspective & their emotional state so daken using that he can beat wolverine .

#28 Posted by Morpheus_ (29871 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

Logan can say whatever he wants, there should be a decisive on-panel fight between the two.

Logan "said" it after Daken beat him and sliced his throat as the coup de grace. And it was not a statement, it was a thought. Logan thought to himself, "he's better than me."

As for decisive fights, there have been two. One that Daken won, and another that Wolverine won by using the muramasa blade and receiving additional training from Silver Samurai as preparation for facing Daken.

Moderator

#29 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38599 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@comicdude23 said:

Wolverine has more experience over Daken, he's been through a-lot more, he's also had more fighting skill and can take more punishment.

#30 Posted by CitizenBane (19888 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Morpheus_ said:

@CitizenBane said:
Logan can say whatever he wants, there should be a decisive on-panel fight between the two.
Logan "said" it after Daken beat him and sliced his throat as the coup de grace. And it was not a statement, it was a thought. Logan thought to himself, "he's better than me."

As for decisive fights, there have been two. One that Daken won, and another that Wolverine won by using the muramasa blade and receiving additional training from Silver Samurai as preparation for facing Daken.

I guess Daken takes the majority, then.

Online

#31 Posted by Blood_guts (1311 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@RainEffect said:

@Blood_guts said:
@RainEffect: you said that his healing factor is worse with adamantium? it was my understanding that it was in fact better because his body was constantly rejecting it and so is forced to be at a consistant level and a high one at that in terms of healing speed.
It's an interesting theory, but think about it this way.

If you have a cold, your immune system devotes its energy (white blood cells) to fight off the sickness, therefore other portions of your body may suffer (dehydration, sore nose from constant blowing, exhaustion due to constant battle). It's the same with Wolverine, his immune system is rapidly fighting off an invasive poison and devoting much of its energy and concentration on the adamantium not killing him. As SoA said, Logan stated his healing factor was much more effective without the metal because it could devote full capabilities into healing.

This is further cemented in the X-23 and Daken issues where they heal almost immediately from pretty lethal things, as they don't have an adamantium skeleton (though Laura has the claws and talons, of course).

right right thats how a human system works. however i thought since he was a mutant with his powers related to his healing that they would work differently. keep in mind though its not my theory its my friend so i cant defend it so well. however if x-23 and daken heal faster than him then the only conclusion is the adamantium hinders his healing.

#32 Posted by progenitor (7408 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

I would give the majority to Daken as far as their confrontations have gone, Daken's done some pretty impressive things that have gone under the radar, like punking Cyber and leaving him to die, also punking Deadpool. He definitely doesn't get as much attention as Wolverine, but if the writers would give Daken more confrontations with more established and mainstream characters, his appeal would significantly increase, i'm sure.

#33 Posted by The Stegman (13061 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

wait, does Daken have Bone claws or adamantium laced claws?

#34 Posted by They Killed Cap! (2243 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Westlife:

I totoally agree

#35 Posted by Blood_guts (1311 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

wolverine slaughters him

#36 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@The Stegman said:

wait, does Daken have Bone claws or adamantium laced claws?

Bone. There was a period where the Tinkerer laced them with a derivative of the Muramasa blade metal, though.

#37 Posted by Westlife (1636 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@progenitor said:

I would give the majority to Daken as far as their confrontations have gone, Daken's done some pretty impressive things that have gone under the radar, like punking Cyber and leaving him to die, also punking Deadpool. He definitely doesn't get as much attention as Wolverine, but if the writers would give Daken more confrontations with more established and mainstream characters, his appeal would significantly increase, i'm sure.

Wait, wouldn't that be bad for his popularity? If I recall right, people hated red hulk showing up and beating on super awesome and well established people just to get publicity.@Blood_guts said:

@RainEffect said:
@Blood_guts said:
@RainEffect: you said that his healing factor is worse with adamantium? it was my understanding that it was in fact better because his body was constantly rejecting it and so is forced to be at a consistant level and a high one at that in terms of healing speed.
It's an interesting theory, but think about it this way.

If you have a cold, your immune system devotes its energy (white blood cells) to fight off the sickness, therefore other portions of your body may suffer (dehydration, sore nose from constant blowing, exhaustion due to constant battle). It's the same with Wolverine, his immune system is rapidly fighting off an invasive poison and devoting much of its energy and concentration on the adamantium not killing him. As SoA said, Logan stated his healing factor was much more effective without the metal because it could devote full capabilities into healing.

This is further cemented in the X-23 and Daken issues where they heal almost immediately from pretty lethal things, as they don't have an adamantium skeleton (though Laura has the claws and talons, of course).
right right thats how a human system works. however i thought since he was a mutant with his powers related to his healing that they would work differently. keep in mind though its not my theory its my friend so i cant defend it so well. however if x-23 and daken heal faster than him then the only conclusion is the adamantium hinders his healing.

Let's not forget Sabretooth as well.

@Morpheus_:
Wait, you mean Wolverine actually fought the brat?

I hope X-23 kicks his ass. Daken's ass, not Wolverines. I hope Gambit kicks his.

WHERE THE HELL IS SABRETOOTH! I WANT HIM BACK! And I'm usually against bringing back characters.

#38 Posted by Doveland (132 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

Daken wins because of his tattoos.

#39 Posted by god_spawn (30508 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Westlife: Not to burst your Daken getting his butt handed to him, but X-23 and him had a pretty crap fight, like 3-5 pages and no one really got the edge as Daken left after the fight, they only got cut up. But if it makes you feel better Gambit blew off Daken's arm like a bawse but they didn't fighter either more talked.

Moderator Online

#40 Posted by Westlife (1636 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@god_spawn:
What!? You mean they already fought!? And it was crappy!? Was this in her own series that they kept talking about? That's okay, I still love you. I heard about the Gambit beating him up some, but I never get to see it.

#41 Posted by god_spawn (30508 posts) - 1 year, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Westlife: It bounced between the X-23 and Daken solo series I'll look up the issue numbers if you want I wanna say it's 8-10 for both series. Also since you didn't see the Gambit there, here you go.

Moderator Online

#42 Posted by stuartjames10441 (1 posts) - 9 months, 17 days ago - Show Bio

wolverine is meerly indestrucktable but daken is not

#43 Posted by Bo88gdan (4129 posts) - 9 months, 17 days ago - Show Bio

@Fluke-buddha said:

With morals off Wolverine definitely wins. He has waaaaaayyyyyyyyy more training than Daken, and a wealth of battle experience. The only reason Logan hasn't already killed him is because it's his kid.

this

#44 Posted by TERMINATORXX (3900 posts) - 9 months, 17 days ago - Show Bio

@katanalauncher said:

Wolverine wins with morals off.

#45 Posted by CadenceV2 (9907 posts) - 9 months, 17 days ago - Show Bio

Wolverine has more feats and better record of Awsomness.

#46 Posted by cmyers1980 (247 posts) - 5 months, 15 hours ago - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

Wolverine has more feats and better record of Awsomness.

#47 Posted by nickzambuto (7809 posts) - 5 months, 13 hours ago - Show Bio

@CadenceV2 said:

Wolverine has more feats and better record of Awsomness.

More feats =/= better feats. I want Wolverine to win, as I sincerely hate Daken with a passion, but I'm not convinced he can.

#48 Posted by jashro44 (9278 posts) - 5 months, 13 hours ago - Show Bio

@nickzambuto said:

@CadenceV2 said:
Wolverine has more feats and better record of Awsomness.
More feats =/= better feats. I want Wolverine to win, as I sincerely hate Daken with a passion, but I'm not convinced he can.

Why do you believe Daken wins? I think I lean towards wolverine personally after thinking about it....A little unsure though.

#49 Posted by laflux (4959 posts) - 5 months, 13 hours ago - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@nickzambuto said:
@CadenceV2 said:
Wolverine has more feats and better record of Awsomness.
More feats =/= better feats. I want Wolverine to win, as I sincerely hate Daken with a passion, but I'm not convinced he can.
Why do you believe Daken wins? I think I lean towards wolverine personally after thinking about it....A little unsure though.

#50 Posted by nickzambuto (7809 posts) - 5 months, 13 hours ago - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@nickzambuto said:
@CadenceV2 said:
Wolverine has more feats and better record of Awsomness.
More feats =/= better feats. I want Wolverine to win, as I sincerely hate Daken with a passion, but I'm not convinced he can.
Why do you believe Daken wins? I think I lean towards wolverine personally after thinking about it....A little unsure though.

The fact that he's stomped Logan in damn near every encounter they've had. I guess Wolverine holds back because it's his son but... I don't know. That's not really enough for me to believe he can win. Even if Logan isn't fighting to his fullest, he can at the very least make an effort to react to Daken rather than pretty much get blitzed. This leads me to believe that he can't react, that Daken is just better.