The weakest character that can defeat Kaguya?

anyone that is smarter than her and can coerce her to act stupid

Batman (with prep)

L (with full understanding of her powers)

Lelouch with Geass

@princearagorn1: Ah you make a good point. Yet that makes more sense due to there physical strength being greater than there durability so they can be harmed by swords. Also madara has no strength feats that iam aware so it just seems like anyone could stab sasuke to death obviously you couldn't just do it with dbz characters even if there near in strength eg

What iam saying is that madara has no strength feats so it seems like he just stabbed sasuke. even though trunks has no strength feats we assume he is as strong as goku cos there about the same level. Also the raikages main thing was physical strength so we can't just assume madaras physical strength is greater.

@kirbstomp Also if madara does has a few strength feats post themif not i see no reason why knives still don't just harm naruto characters with no strength required.

True, but the conclusion of that point is what?

@princearagorn1: That sasuke was just stabbed it seemed to take no force. unlike the violent barage attacks by trunks and yajirobe meaning that sasuke has no durability like all naruto characters.

Difference being, trunks cut frieza completely in half, and vegeta's tail was cut off - sasuke only had a stab wound, which takes significantly less force. In fact, average men are literally not strong enough to cut a person in one swing, but they can stab without too much trouble.

Dan Hibiki

@princearagorn1: All iam saying is it looks like it took no force what so ever to hurt sasuke with that sword. Unlike the jump strike by yajirobe and and the series of attacks by trunks. So it looks like anyone could just run up and stab sasuke.

Lelouch and L are weak, they get stomped here. Kaguya just speedblitz her

so if someone swings, they can cut vegeta and frieza..?

@princearagorn1: No they would need to swing it with a greater force then there powerlevel by a significant amount. the reason why the sasuke scan is different is madara just stabbed him no effort required since he has no strength feats i guess his physical strength is peak human. meaning anyone could just stab sasuke. unlike dbz characters who can only be harmed with swords by someone with greater force with the except of vegeta tail a common weakness for sayans.

He's stabbing, not slashing.

since he has no strength feats i guess his physical strength is peak human.

Neither trunks nor yajirobe have physical strength feats.

meaning anyone could just stab sasuke. unlike dbz characters who can only be harmed with swords by someone with greater force with the except of vegeta tail a common weakness for sayans.

And cut frieza, or any z fighter, to pieces if they swing.

@princearagorn1: Yes but in dbz we can use powerscalling cos they all fight in the same style unlike naruto. So gokus strengths feats in freeza arc blocking that really big rock and training in 50's gravity should apply to trunks since hes at the same level of freeza arc goku when the scans are shown. Same for yajirobe who since he is stronger than first arc dbgoku who lifted a large rock to. Yet in naruto with madara because characters have differnet fighting styles like sakura and tsunade specialising in strength which is feared by stronger characters means in naruto we can't scale physical strength in the same way as DBZ so this means madara has no strength feats but trunks and yajirobe have the strength feats of all characters weaker than them.

Also do you think goku would lose to kaguya or are you just trying to debunk my kinda dodgy arguments?

@chazz85:

Yes but in dbz we can use powerscalling cos they all fight in the same style unlike naruto. So gokus strengths feats in freeza arc blocking that really big rock and training in 50's gravity should apply to trunks since hes at the same level of freeza arc goku when the scans are shown. Same for yajirobe who since he is stronger than first arc dbgoku who lifted a large rock to. Yet in naruto with madara because characters have differnet fighting styles like sakura and tsunade specialising in strength which is feared by stronger characters means in naruto we can't scale physical strength in the same way as DBZ so this means madara has no strength feats but trunks and yajirobe have the strength feats of all characters weaker than them.

They don't fight the same, I can go on listing individual movesets each character has if you want me to.

Madara's clone itself was punching away bijuu, and blocking blows from sakura - or fighting kcm naruto, who literally has difficuly holding back enough so he doesn't shatter solid rock.

Also do you think goku would lose to kaguya or are you just trying to debunk my kinda dodgy arguments?

The latter. I personally see kaguya somewhere around saiyan saga goku/vegeta, their output seems more casual, while she's more versatile. Anything higher than that should be too much for her.

@princearagorn1: Since you gave me madara strength feats. Also ik dbz characters have slightly different fighting styles. But in dbz theres not a physical strength guy like in naruto .

Also the only reason i say raditz could take her is beacuase raditz could planet bust.

Raditz hasn't been portrayed planet level... And even if he was, kaguya can dismantly the planet, she still holds the power advantage. And with the versatility advantage, raditz isn't beating her, nor is nappa. Vegeta in that saga is the best best.

@juzacloud said:

*This

Anybody with hill level+ strength can one shot Kaguya with a punch

@chazz85:

What? lol ANBODY can cut dbz characters? you have to be stronger than them to achieve that. strength feats? Vegeta trained in x10 earth gravity on planet vegeta. was doing 1 fingered push ups in 500x gravity. Your striking/strength power is equal to your Ki, as well as durability. This all depends on what point of the story we are talking about as well. Can sasuke cut early kid goku sure. Can he cut any goku after that thats stronger than him, of course not. He can cut great apes tail off as well. Also the tail being a known weakness to untrained saiyans.

Anybody can cut dbz characters?

Scan 1- Vegeta stronger than Guldo. Cuts guldo head off

scan 2- Nail, who is weaker than frieza attempts to cut his head off

scan 3- Piccolo stronger than android 20 cuts his arm off

scan 4- Trunks catches his own brave sword in hand from King Cold

Now show me someone in naruto stronger than nail, nail who is ginyu force level, with stronger cutting durability to by pass the cutting power frieza laughed at from nail. Or show me madara in naruto punching someone as strong as nail. But like you said they can't get passed saiyan vegeta. One other thing, are you trying to say naruto characters can physically overpower DBZ?.in a grapple situation like? lol. Help me understand the flawed logic of comicvine will you? Will you say king cold has no strength feats? so kid goku can block that same sword attack trunks caught?

Yajirobe does have strength feats. he threw a 20 ton boulder through a forest at King piccolo saga goku and matched him blow for blow. Heck, he even shook the forest area with a couple sumo stomps.

Not sure on weakest, but Darquesse would get the job done.

@princearagorn1:

"Neither trunks nor yajirobe have physical strength feats."

"Madara's clone itself was punching away bijuu, and blocking blows from sakura - or fighting kcm naruto, who literally has difficuly holding back enough so he doesn't shatter solid rock."

The logic on comicvine is horrendous

Kid goku with all his strength feats in multiple tons can over power SSJ trunks physically who has no physical strength feats, that I'm aware of at the moment. Sakura can also over power SSJ trunks, perfect cell, and a few other DBZ characters who haven't shown physical strength feats or fought someone who has shown physical strength feats. .i.e lifting boulders etc.

Madara vs Sakura=Madara strength feats. Sakura or Madara gets into a hand grapple with perfect cell or Ultra Saiyan trunks......she and he wins lol

So basically captain ginyu and yajirobe who fought goku is physically stronger than ssj trunks, super perfect cell, Majin Buu, etc. since goku has physical strength feats.

@josephgomes619: Can you show me where in the manga it said that Sakura had hill level strength? Anyone with a rock can one shot Goku heck Toph stomps with a boulder forget Chibaku tensei.

Anybody can stab/pierce or cut DBZ characters. It doesn't take super powered characters lol. Leonardo, raphael, deadpool, Uma Thurman from kill bill, etc. all can

Death Beam

Oh, my bad trunks doesn't have any physical strength feats. That sword slash was as light as a feather.

This is sad.

@juzacloud: Except there are many characters in Naruto that are stronger than Dbz characters besides that regular swords are amplified with chakra. Can Goku take a slash from Perfect Susanoo? No. Can he take a slash from a chakra claw? No. Since when did anyone in Dbz fight someone on Kaguya's level? Never, because they will never get that level of power ever.

Also show me a dbz character punching anyone on Kaguya's level. Oh yeah I forgot there is no such feat.

I would like to see Goku try and block a chidori or TSB variant.

Madara punched a fodder, nail is a fodder.

Sasuke can cut any version of Goku. Sasuke can bisect Madara who is durable enough to survive blows from Might Guy as well that space distortion and then goes on to tank a rasenshuriken from Naruto who's chakra potency is universe+ without getting bisected.

Black Zetsu's hand>>>>>>>>>>>Any hand in Dbz

the amount of sarcasm here is over 9000

lol sigh Loki_D the joke of comicvine. Why haven't you made anymore mismatch naruto battles lately that naruto gets stomped in? Kaguya vs galactus wasn't it? lol and you expect to get a serious response from me? narto fans aren't even fond of you.

1- kirby never tanked a planet busting attack

2- kirby is not FTL, his warp star can travel at FTL speed, but it can't reach that speed after moving a couple of meters, he was hit by rockets and lightning in the anime while riding the warp star

3- kaguya can fly and can resist the pull, kirby won't be able to suck her up, he has issues sucking pathetic creatures in his universe

4- kirby is not equivalent to Majin Buu (anyway we can't have this debate since it is banned)

@juzacloud: Well I agree those were mismatches because the Naruto characters could stomp so badly. Heck Kaguya could one shot Galactus but there are too many fanboys that will cry over such a thing.

@loki_d

"Can Goku take a slash from Perfect Susanoo?"

yes

" Can he take a slash from a chakra claw?"

yes

"Since when did anyone in Dbz fight someone on Kaguya's level?"

1st form frieza is not on her level?

"Also show me a dbz character punching anyone on Kaguya's level."

cell jrs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kaguya and ssj2 gohan 1 shot them

"I would like to see Goku try and block a chidori or TSB variant."

i would like to see anyone in naruto tanking a kamehameha from roshi

"Sasuke can cut any version of Goku."

Goku blocked trunks's sword attacks with his finger and this is way before Goku got ssjgod. try again

Hey, I learn something new every day. If kid goku (with all the physical strength feats) had trunks sword and swung it at him, it would cleave right through ssj trunks hand because him and king cold are physically featless. Kid goku could also cut off android 18 arm where ssj trunks failed. never mind that trunks sword withstood ssj goku finger, then broke on android 18, showing its level of durability. But any old sword will do since kid goku is swinging it.

The farmer with the axe that broke over kid goku head could cleave right through any dbz character besides goku. Mercenary tao with his sword could to since he has strength feats. trunks hand and android 18 arm don't have cutting feats because the characters that attacked them don't have strength feats.

dbz characters can only channel ki into their finger to block cutting attacks. Their whole body where their ki is focus at can't take cutting attacks. only the finger. /friezadeathbeamtotheface

kid goku can beat ssj2 gohan in arm wrestling. Yajirobe (with his strength feats) and sword can cut through beerus ki roided body and trunks hand.

It goes on and on........

and according to the magnificent Loki_D chakra swords>>>>dbz ki

doesn't matter if the chakra swords are featless against ssj goku or android 18 level characters. Mifune chakra sword cut through hanzo scythe. Hanzo scythe never has struck a being strong as android 18 or goku.

His power level is over 2,000 that can't be....it is....even 3,000, nappa watch it that kids power level is over 3,000

@juzacloud: ...This is what happens when you jump in a debate without even knowing what's going on - and start hyperventilating and post a long argument over... nothing.

Quoted from post 163

Chazz: Also do you think goku would lose to kaguya or are you just trying to debunk my kinda dodgy arguments?

PA1: The latter.

The comments are focused on replicating the bad logic against the side he's representing to show what's going wrong. The same bad logic you were just commenting on. Namely, it looks like madara cut sasuke without effort, and madara doesn't have strength feats, so anyone can cut sasuke.

Btw:

Anybody can cut dbz characters?

Scan 1- Vegeta stronger than Guldo. Cuts guldo head off

scan 2- Nail, who is weaker than frieza attempts to cut his head off

scan 3- Piccolo stronger than android 20 cuts his arm off

scan 4- Trunks catches his own brave sword in hand from King Cold

Hm. Logical.

Scan 5 - Yajirobe cuts vegeta

scan 6: Krillin cuts frieza:

@loki_d said:

@le0nhart said:

@loki_d

"yes"

Oh I didn't know Goku could take a universal slash care to back up this bold claim.

"yes"

An enraged Naruto cut through an impenetrable skeleton (Kaguya's bone structure) of a Universal++ character.

"1st form frieza is not on her level?"

1st form Frieza can only destroy planets by rustling the core. He's not messing with universes and reality warping. Nor is he the progenitor of a energy that created many things such as universes, dimensions, immortal beings, reality warping.

"cell jrs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kaguya and ssj2 gohan 1 shot them"

Cell jrs don't have any durability feats plus they're way way weaker than Ashura.

"i would like to see anyone in naruto tanking a kamehameha from roshi"

That is so easy for some of them it's not even funny. It would be a game of soccer for Naruto. Kicking a universal chakra condensed orb is no problem for him.

"Goku blocked trunks's sword attacks with his finger and this is way before Goku got ssjgod. try again"

So What? Chidori variant>Trunk's sword and considering who the user is it is significantly more powerful.

Oh I didn't know Goku could take a universal slash care to back up this bold claim.

you have no proof that it is a universal slash

An enraged Naruto cut through an impenetrable skeleton (Kaguya's bone structure) of a Universal++ character.

prove that kaguya has an "impenetrable skeleton" and requires universal++ attacks

1st form Frieza can only destroy planets by rustling the core. He's not messing with universes and reality warping. Nor is he the progenitor of a energy that created many things such as universes, dimensions, immortal beings, reality warping.

prove that kaguya is above planet level

frieza busted planet vegeta which has 10x earth's gravity, also destroying the core is equivalent to 50% planet busting, not to mention frieza stated that he held back too much and he didn't disrupt the core, he destroyed it

Cell jrs don't have any durability feats plus they're way way weaker than Ashura.

cell jrs took attacks from super Vegeta, that is above anything in Naruto

That is so easy for some of them it's not even funny. It would be a game of soccer for Naruto. Kicking a universal chakra condensed orb is no problem for him.

prove that the orb is universal

@le0nhart: Go read the manga as well as the Databook I'm not here to baby sit nor teach you. And stop making bold claims with no lick of proof

Gallery

Middle scan states a jutsu manifest itself according to the user's belief of it, Madara's Perfect Susanoo is the incarnation of Destruction because of the power of Yin-yang release and with it its universal as well. 4th scan shows Kaguya about to reformat one of the universes she created again possible through Yin-yang release and its power was above the regular black orbs which are universal. Last scan just provides a general description of what Yin with Yang release is capable of, with Indra creating ninjutsu/reality warping.

@loki_d said:

@le0nhart: Go read the manga as well as the Databook I'm not here to baby sit nor teach you. And stop making bold claims with no lick of proof

Gallery

Middle scan states

i read the manga already, nothing in it suggests moon+ level

nothing in these scans state or suggest that naruto,madara or kagyua have universal level attacks and durability, so again where is your proof for all the claims you made?

If Kaguya was smart with her powers, than not many people below herald level that aren't FTL could beat her.

People keep forgetting she knows every jutsu in Naruto, including the ones that allow shape shifting, reality warping, planetary TP, gravity manipulation, absorbing souls, disintegration on the atomic level (on a planetary scale), and continent level energy blasts.

@le0nhart: Suck on it!!

Madara and Obito are using the Juubi's power (the power of the universe) which the Juubi is said to be nature itself in the manga so it's confirmed in both Db and Manga that the Juubi is nature. Hagoromo inherited it's chakra from his mother that's why the manga said he split the ten tails chakra into 9 bodies and why he was born a sage. Naruto is using Hagoromo's power.

Now its time to back up your claims, I was being generous by providing evidence first even though I asked you to provide proof first. So now it's your turn.

@loki_d said:

@le0nhart: Suck on it!!

Madara and Obito are using the Juubi's power (the power of the universe) which the Juubi is said to be nature itself in the manga so it's confirmed in both Db and Manga that the Juubi is nature. Hagoromo inherited it's chakra from his mother that's why the manga said he split the ten tails chakra into 9 bodies and why he was born a sage. Naruto is using Hagoromo's power.

Now its time to back up your claims, I was being generous by providing evidence first even though I asked you to provide proof first. So now it's your turn.

the first scan does not suggest universe level attacks/durabbilty and it is out of context, i need to read the whole thing and a link for it would be nice

regarding the second scan it is fake or a mistranslation where did you get it from?

here are 2 scans from 2 different manga sites chapter 589, get rekt

i have nothing to prove, you're the one that made claims regarding universal level attacks/durability not me, so again where is the proof for kaguya, madara or naruto having universal level durability/attack ?

@le0nhart: the first scan of mines is saying they are using the power of the Juubi. The Juubi is the totality of existence/universe. I'm not going to provide anymore sh*t until you back up your claims.

That second scan of your still says his power is universal, all things in nature=universe. The first not so much. I'll look for the viz scan even though I believe that is the viz scan.

Get rekt

the power of the juubi is not even moon level, the scan you showed does not prove anything, again i don't have to prove anything since you're the one making the absurd claims here

the japanese dub said Shinrabanshō 森羅万象 = all things in nature

all things in nature =/= universe busting attack especially for the naruto universe since everything in that universe revolves around their world or planet

when someone in Naruto actually blows up a planet then you might have a small argument, so far you got non, all you have is an attack that destroyed 2-3 mountains which is something below roshi's level

@le0nhart: Fanboy alert....Uh kid universe>>>>>>>moon if you didn't know. The Juubi does not need to destroy a moon, it's power is condensed when it's release that's just the way it is so if you're looking for a large AOE covering galaxies then you're llooking at the wrong manga.

An idea is not an idea without the idea. All things in nature= Totality of existence= Universe. A universe is not a universe without all things.

Yeah they did that in chapter 679 I believe, Naruto destroyed multiple planets in one shot or should I say heavenly bodies with multiplied gravity. I guess Vegeta's Big Bang is below Roshi's level too.

Sweety you don't understand do you?

Yes, he's looking at the wrong manga, considering the strongest character in the series is planet level+ at best...

Yeah they did that in chapter 679 I believe, Naruto destroyed multiple planets in one shot or should I say heavenly bodies with multiplied gravity.

Or you can go with the facts and say small chunks of a country thrown into space via gravitation.

you're the only fanboy here, your fanwanking is getting out of control, what's next kaguya vs the beyonder?

all things in nature according the Naruto universe could mean everything on the planet it is still a statement with nothing behind it, if he said something like "with 1 swing i can destroy the universe" you would have a small argument but he never said that, not to mention do you even know how big the Naruto universe is?

these are not planets, try again

regarding vegeta, vegeta has stated multiple times that he can destroy the planet and piccolo confirmed it, we have roshi and piccolo both destroyed the moon, frieza destroyed planet vegeta and namek, kid buu destroyed earth, beerus destroyed 2 stars

did anyone in Naruto do anything close to that?

"sweety" the difference between DBZ and Naruto is that DBZ got some feats to back up the AOE control, Naruto doesn't

and this is what happens when you get warped by comicvine logic

Yajirobe cut vegeta BATTLE ARMOR.

Krillin cuts frieza........hmmmm......with the kienzan.....you know...one of the STRONGEST attacks in the manga that bypass strength levels and has never failed. It doesn't matter who is throwing a kienzan the outcome is the same due to the superiority of technique it is.

And yes anybody can cut sasuke. He are nobody else, unless using a specific ninjutsu, has shown super human durability towards cutting/piercing. Saying madara has superhuman strength feats thats why he was able to stab sasuke is fail logic. that's comicvine logic.

@le0nhart said:

@loki_d said:

@le0nhart: Fanboy alert....Uh kid universe>>>>>>>moon if you didn't know. The Juubi does not need to destroy a moon, it's power is condensed when it's release that's just the way it is so if you're looking for a large AOE covering galaxies then you're llooking at the wrong manga.

An idea is not an idea without the idea. All things in nature= Totality of existence= Universe. A universe is not a universe without all things.

Yeah they did that in chapter 679 I believe, Naruto destroyed multiple planets in one shot or should I say heavenly bodies with multiplied gravity. I guess Vegeta's Big Bang is below Roshi's level too.

Sweety you don't understand do you?

you're the only fanboy here, your fanwanking is getting out of control, what's next kaguya vs the beyonder?

all things in nature according the Naruto universe could mean everything on the planet it is still a statement with nothing behind it, if he said something like "with 1 swing i can destroy the universe" you would have a small argument but he never said that, not to mention do you even know how big the Naruto universe is?

these are not planets, try again

regarding vegeta, vegeta has stated multiple times that he can destroy the planet and piccolo confirmed it, we have roshi and piccolo both destroyed the moon, frieza destroyed planet vegeta and namek, kid buu destroyed earth, beerus destroyed 2 stars

did anyone in Naruto do anything close to that?

"sweety" the difference between DBZ and Naruto is that DBZ got some feats to back up the AOE control, Naruto doesn't

Too bad Viz official translations says Universe. XD And yes the Narutoverse has a multiverse excluding Kamui, Limbo, and the Pure Land.

But they are celestial bodies formed by a universal+ character.

Yes. Refer to the comment above about Madara's chibaku tensei. Hinata destroyed a star/sun that was inside the moon, Sasuke destroyed chibaku tensei, Characters can create celestial bodies, can create universes, can erase universes, Toneri accidentally sliced the moon with Naruto tanking another gudodama attack (universal+).

again celestial body=all chibaku tensei and size does not matter It's all about power.

And Madara created a universe/reality for every person on the planet that got caught inside infinite Tsukuyomi using Yin release now only if he had mastery over Yin-Yang release or COAT then he would have created a billion universes/realities if that's the population of the people on the planet.

It kind of reminds me of GetBackers with the archive and Infinity Fortress. Oh the similarities.

@loki_d said:

@le0nhart said:

@loki_d said:

@le0nhart: Fanboy alert....Uh kid universe>>>>>>>moon if you didn't know. The Juubi does not need to destroy a moon, it's power is condensed when it's release that's just the way it is so if you're looking for a large AOE covering galaxies then you're llooking at the wrong manga.

An idea is not an idea without the idea. All things in nature= Totality of existence= Universe. A universe is not a universe without all things.

Yeah they did that in chapter 679 I believe, Naruto destroyed multiple planets in one shot or should I say heavenly bodies with multiplied gravity. I guess Vegeta's Big Bang is below Roshi's level too.

Sweety you don't understand do you?

you're the only fanboy here, your fanwanking is getting out of control, what's next kaguya vs the beyonder?

all things in nature according the Naruto universe could mean everything on the planet it is still a statement with nothing behind it, if he said something like "with 1 swing i can destroy the universe" you would have a small argument but he never said that, not to mention do you even know how big the Naruto universe is?

these are not planets, try again

regarding vegeta, vegeta has stated multiple times that he can destroy the planet and piccolo confirmed it, we have roshi and piccolo both destroyed the moon, frieza destroyed planet vegeta and namek, kid buu destroyed earth, beerus destroyed 2 stars

did anyone in Naruto do anything close to that?

"sweety" the difference between DBZ and Naruto is that DBZ got some feats to back up the AOE control, Naruto doesn't

Too bad Viz official translations says Universe. XD And yes the Narutoverse has a multiverse excluding Kamui, Limbo, and the Pure Land.

But they are celestial bodies formed by a universal+ character.

Yes. Refer to the comment above about Madara's chibaku tensei. Hinata destroyed a star/sun that was inside the moon, Sasuke destroyed chibaku tensei, Characters can create celestial bodies, can create universes, can erase universes, Toneri accidentally sliced the moon with Naruto tanking another gudodama attack (universal+).

again celestial body=all chibaku tensei and size does not matter It's all about power.

show me the official translation then, i have the original Japanese dub + 2 manga scans, you have nothing so far

the character is only universal+ in your fanfiction and those objects are not planets so try again

hinata star level? are you joking? she would get roflstomped by kid krillin

creating/erasing a pocket dimension =/= universe level

slicing the moon is not a big deal, roshi already destroyed the moon and he is the weakest guy in dbz

@loki_d:

He didn't rip apart a country or anything near it. Stop wanking. He couldn't even rip up california. Heck, Ya'll were even wanking last year trying to say chibaku tensei was moon level. Yet the moon i still bigger than it from the distance its at.

@le0nhart: Madara created a universe for every character trapped in IT which is a Yin release jutsu, Kaguya who is more powerful and experienced with her powers can give IT life thus making those universes real however she was selfish so she only satisfied herself those castles are no coincidences either she created her own dream worlds and made them real.

Hinata indeed destroyed a star.

@juzacloud: It doesn't really matter if he ripped up a continent or island what's important is that what is gathered becomes a celestial body.