#1 Posted by joeagentofhand1 (4362 posts) - - Show Bio

VS

Ultimate Comics Spider-Man #16

Win by death, incapacitation, or KO.

Both are in character.

Standard gear.

Battle takes place here:

The Daily Planet

They start 25 feet apart.

#2 Edited by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

We haven't seen all of Superior's standard gear yet but even without that someone with Peter's powers and Ock's morals? Superior should wreck here.

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#3 Posted by nickzambuto (13664 posts) - - Show Bio

Superior should stomp

#4 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

Considering that Otto in Peter's body isn't fond of holding back, he should be able to take out Miles with a single hit as he did to Gargan who is far stronger and durable than Miles could ever hope to be.

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#5 Edited by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: That was pretty brutal. Wish there'd have been a clearer drawing of exactly how much damage he did.

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#6 Posted by comicace3 (5282 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

Considering that Otto in Peter's body isn't fond of holding back, he should be able to take out Miles with a single hit as he did to Gargan who is far stronger and durable than Miles could ever hope to be.

Agreed

#7 Posted by TDK_1997 (14896 posts) - - Show Bio

Otto doesn't hold back,so he would wreck Miles.

#8 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: Yeah, well clearly from the reactions and what Ock stated, he took his jaw clean off. Chances are that Gargan barely survived that. Absolutely brutal what Peter is capable of when he puts his mind to it, even Otto was surprised.

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#9 Posted by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: Kinda makes you wonder what a really angry Spider-man would be capable of if a frustrated hook one-shots Scorpion and takes his his jaw clean off in the process. Hopefully SpOck might give us the opportunity to see this. Just out of plain curiosity do you think Ock kept the Carbonadium armor and is wearing it beneath his suit? Would be pretty sick if he did.

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#10 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: I have a fantastic feeling that Kaine vs SpOck will be one heck of a battle! Personally, I think Ock merely had that Cabonadium armour for that specific situation with Peter. I mean, if the Trapster could figure out what he was up to, how could Ock not? But looking at it from an advantageous angle, keeping the armour would help him a lot in regards to fighting the vast amount of super villains.

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#11 Posted by Hoarderofhilarity (299 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: Scans please??

#12 Edited by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: Yeah the fact that Kaine is Spider-mans clone will negate SpOck's spider-sense couple that with his slight unfamiliarity with his new powers and you've got the makings of a bloody fight. It would be awesome if he does keep that corbonadium plating beneath his suit or makes those adamantium web-shooters he was going on about.

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#13 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio
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#14 Posted by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio
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#15 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: Yeah, although it'd be interesting to see where he'd get Adamantium from and for what purpose he needs such a metal for his web-shooters. And good point regarding the spider-sense being negated. On top of that, Kaine already doesn't like Peter and Otto's arrogance will only push him further to attack him.

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#16 Posted by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget: Well I guess it would stop enemies breaking his webshooters. I'm trying to work out what his claws are for. I have a hunch they'll do something weird like inject venom.

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#17 Posted by MetalSonic (75 posts) - - Show Bio

Well lets think about it everyone.

Spiderman can lift about 10 tons. Now, in terms of super humanness that's pretty weak on the low side. I mean compared to thor and hulk who have no real upper limit...well basically every time we see them fight we see buildings shatter. With Spider-Man we see someone get knocked out. But we all know (or should know) that Spider-Man is holding back, mostly because he does not want to hurt people, even villians. Most of the people he fights would die if he hit them with full force.

I mean think about it. A semi truck (just the cab) can weight between 9 to 15 or more tons. Everyone has seen photos of these things in collisions. Even hitting something that isn't moving, the vehicle is torn up. Now imagine Spider-Man, or a person with his strength, using his fully force to punch a human being. He could realistically punch a whole in a light tank, and probably put a big dent in a large one.

As far as Him vs Miles...its sort of been done in Spider-Men. I think Miles would be able to put up something of a fight just because he's more use to his body and abilities then Otto, and he's got that sting that can immobilize Otto, but I do not believe he is as strong (yet) as Otto is.

Btw, is anyone else upset with what happened? Just curious. I am. =\

#18 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: Eh, he hasn't had his web shooters broken in forever and honestly, the last time we saw it happen was in the Amazing Spider-Man film :P

Personally, I think the claws are just for show, perhaps to differentiate him from Peter's old costume, but from reading Avenging 15.1, he might have something more up his sleeve.

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#19 Posted by joeagentofhand1 (4362 posts) - - Show Bio

@MetalSonic: doesn't he also have invisibility(I know it is not as affective due to spider sense, but it would help)?

#20 Posted by MetalSonic (75 posts) - - Show Bio

@joeagentofhand1 said:

@MetalSonic: doesn't he also have invisibility(I know it is not as affective due to spider sense, but it would help)?

He does, though its more camo then anything else. I do not believe it would allow him to really get a surprise attack out on SpOck, but he could very well hide from him.

#21 Edited by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@MetalSonic: The whole fight between Miles and Peter wasn't serious. Peter didn't even throw a punch at him. He just tried to use web to immobilize him. He knew Miles was only a kid and didn't want to hurt him hence why he was taken by surprise. Had Pete been serious Miles wouldn't have stood a chance.

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#22 Posted by MetalSonic (75 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92:

Yes and what was Peter Parker. Not "Omg lets change things because change is good" Potto Octarker. Until we really see him in this new series I am not really convinced that he is fully use to his body yet. I mean he was surprised at how strong Spider-Man actually was. Also that still does not change the fact that peter was taken out by miles shock. miles didn't know what he was doing then, but he's constantly learning and getting better. I am not saying that he would whoop the new "spider-man" but until I see this new spider man in some serious fights I can't say for sure that he'd stomp.

#23 Edited by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@MetalSonic: What you have to take into account here is that this isn't simply Ock in Pete's body. He has all of Pete's memories and experiences. He may not have used them himself but he still has all the memories of every time Peter used his powers He's not fighting blind because he technically has all the experience Spider-man does as everything he's done in the past Ock will be seeing as if he's lived it. By taking over Pete's body he's also gained his experience and martial arts training. couple that with Ock's morals and that's a very lethal combination. Throw in the fact that Spider-men is cannon Ock already knows what Miles can do. He won't be taken by surprise.

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#24 Posted by laflux (15920 posts) - - Show Bio

@MetalSonic said:

Well lets think about it everyone.

Spiderman can lift about 10 tons. Now, in terms of super humanness that's pretty weak on the low side. I mean compared to thor and hulk who have no real upper limit...well basically every time we see them fight we see buildings shatter. With Spider-Man we see someone get knocked out. But we all know (or should know) that Spider-Man is holding back, mostly because he does not want to hurt people, even villians. Most of the people he fights would die if he hit them with full force.

I mean think about it. A semi truck (just the cab) can weight between 9 to 15 or more tons. Everyone has seen photos of these things in collisions. Even hitting something that isn't moving, the vehicle is torn up. Now imagine Spider-Man, or a person with his strength, using his fully force to punch a human being. He could realistically punch a whole in a light tank, and probably put a big dent in a large one.

As far as Him vs Miles...its sort of been done in Spider-Men. I think Miles would be able to put up something of a fight just because he's more use to his body and abilities then Otto, and he's got that sting that can immobilize Otto, but I do not believe he is as strong (yet) as Otto is.

Btw, is anyone else upset with what happened? Just curious. I am. =\

As I have said before, Spider-Man is considerably higher than 10 tons, especially when not holding back- and for the record Spider-Man has destroyed buildings on Multiple occasions. Superior Spider-Man isn't stronger than regular Spider-Man, he just lacks morals, and as Kraven and his Family, Kingpin and his mooks, Angelo Venom, Rhino, Iron Man 2020 and Others will tell you, a no Morals Spider-Man is something the Vast Majority of Street-Levelers simply can't compete with.

In all honesty I simply call Spider-Man a Ten Tonner, as the Marvel Strength Rating, while off in estimating pure-strength, are rather accurate in measuring the scales of strength between characters. For example Eddie Brock while definitely is much higher than a 25 tonner, is probably about two and a half times stronger than Spider-Man based on feats and fights. Angelo Venom, who inherited all of the Previous Venom's Powers, but was simply to much of a jobber to use them properly, was explicitly stated on Panel to be twice as strong as Spider-Man.

@Deranged Midget:

@Strider92:

While I agree that Superior Spider-Man wins, I think that if Miles was more willing to use his Venom Sting, he could steal a few. I also feel that his durability could allow him to survive a least a blow, as he was being hit by Ultimate Rhino, who is strong much stronger than Spider-Man (Superior, Other Enhanced or Otherwise :P), and was still able to fight on.

Thanks for Reading,

Laflux.

#25 Posted by MetalSonic (75 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92 said:

@MetalSonic: What you have to take into account here is that this isn't simply Ock in Pete's body. He has all of Pete's memories and experiences. He may not have used them himself but he still has all the memories of every time Peter used his powers He's not fighting blind because he technically has all the experience Spider-man does as everything he's done in the past Ock will be seeing as if he's lived it. By taking over Pete's body he's also gained his experience and martial arts training. couple that with Ock's morals and that's a very lethal combination. Throw in the fact that Spider-men is cannon Ock already knows what Miles can do. He won't be taken by surprise.

I disagree.

It's been shown far too often in comics, movies, and TV shows that when people take over the bodies of others, they have issues. While they can do regular things such as walk, talk, etc, they are still a completely different person and on a basic level will act in a way similar to what they are use to until they get use to their body. I mean I could have all the memories and Experiences of Super-man but the first time *I* actually fly will probably be clumsy and stupid, even though I "know" how to do it.

At least that is my view on it. They may treat this differently, but the fact that he was suprised at the power of his punch tells me that he's still getting use to it.

#26 Edited by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@Deranged Midget:

@Strider92:

While I agree that Superior Spider-Man wins, I think that if Miles was more willing to use his Venom Sting, he could steal a few. I also feel that his durability could allow him to survive a least a blow, as he was being hit by Ultimate Rhino, who is strong much stronger than Spider-Man (Superior, Other Enhanced or Otherwise :P), and was still able to fight on.

Thanks for Reading,

Laflux.

True but as I said just now Spider-men I believe is considered cannon thus SpOck wouldn't be taken by surprise by Miles. SpOck knows he can turn invisible and that he has a venom sting. The element of surprise for Miles is gone.

@MetalSonic: We shall have to see where this goes then. Slott has said that we will be seeing the way of the spider again meaning that Ock still remembers how to use the training taught to Peter by Shang.

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#27 Posted by Wyldsong (5572 posts) - - Show Bio

@MetalSonic said:

@Strider92 said:

@MetalSonic: What you have to take into account here is that this isn't simply Ock in Pete's body. He has all of Pete's memories and experiences. He may not have used them himself but he still has all the memories of every time Peter used his powers He's not fighting blind because he technically has all the experience Spider-man does as everything he's done in the past Ock will be seeing as if he's lived it. By taking over Pete's body he's also gained his experience and martial arts training. couple that with Ock's morals and that's a very lethal combination. Throw in the fact that Spider-men is cannon Ock already knows what Miles can do. He won't be taken by surprise.

I disagree.

It's been shown far too often in comics, movies, and TV shows that when people take over the bodies of others, they have issues. While they can do regular things such as walk, talk, etc, they are still a completely different person and on a basic level will act in a way similar to what they are use to until they get use to their body. I mean I could have all the memories and Experiences of Super-man but the first time *I* actually fly will probably be clumsy and stupid, even though I "know" how to do it.

At least that is my view on it. They may treat this differently, but the fact that he was suprised at the power of his punch tells me that he's still getting use to it.

Just a thought, but that attack was before Peter forced Ock to live his life through his memories. Maybe just maybe that has something to do with it.

If Slott says we will be seeing the way of the spider again, then I have to agree with Strider. That and due to fact that we have seen pretty much seen him effortlessly web slinging and so on. He has been shown doing the spider thing without going through much of a learning curve.

#28 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

While I agree that Superior Spider-Man wins, I think that if Miles was more willing to use his Venom Sting, he could steal a few. I also feel that his durability could allow him to survive a least a blow, as he was being hit by Ultimate Rhino, who is strong much stronger than Spider-Man (Superior, Other Enhanced or Otherwise :P), and was still able to fight on.

Thanks for Reading,

Laflux.

Nice analysis, thanks for that!

You make a good point regarding the Venom Sting that Miles does possess. It's basically one of, if not his best bet to utilize against Otto (or SpOck as Strider and I now refer to him as). Although, we have yet to see what capabilities the new lenses that Otto has integrated into his mask. They may allow SpOck to read Miles' heat signature despite being camouflaged and thus, counter whatever advantage he had in the first place. On top of that, Miles only took two hits from Ultimate Rhino and while neither really showed any lasting effect, he was thrown out of battle for a brief period.

Gargan on the other hand is easily a 20-30+ tonner and has trashed around Peter in the past. SpOck easily dispatched him with a single hit, surprised at the power Peter's body possessed so I highly doubt that Miles will be taking the same hit with any better results.

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#29 Posted by Strider92 (16462 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wyldsong said:

@MetalSonic said:

@Strider92 said:

@MetalSonic: What you have to take into account here is that this isn't simply Ock in Pete's body. He has all of Pete's memories and experiences. He may not have used them himself but he still has all the memories of every time Peter used his powers He's not fighting blind because he technically has all the experience Spider-man does as everything he's done in the past Ock will be seeing as if he's lived it. By taking over Pete's body he's also gained his experience and martial arts training. couple that with Ock's morals and that's a very lethal combination. Throw in the fact that Spider-men is cannon Ock already knows what Miles can do. He won't be taken by surprise.

I disagree.

It's been shown far too often in comics, movies, and TV shows that when people take over the bodies of others, they have issues. While they can do regular things such as walk, talk, etc, they are still a completely different person and on a basic level will act in a way similar to what they are use to until they get use to their body. I mean I could have all the memories and Experiences of Super-man but the first time *I* actually fly will probably be clumsy and stupid, even though I "know" how to do it.

At least that is my view on it. They may treat this differently, but the fact that he was suprised at the power of his punch tells me that he's still getting use to it.

Just a thought, but that attack was before Peter forced Ock to live his life through his memories. Maybe just maybe that has something to do with it.

If Slott says we will be seeing the way of the spider again, then I have to agree with Strider. That and due to fact that we have seen pretty much seen him effortlessly web slinging and so on. He has been shown doing the spider thing without going through much of a learning curve.

If you read this interview: http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dan-slott-amazing-spider-man-700-post-game-spoilers.html

Slott says this:

Well, he's got all of Peter's memories, so he's not going to have to learn how to use the powers or release the web fluid. He's got all of Peter's memories. So it's quite a different journey.
-Dan Slott

Inferring SpOck will know how to use Spider-man's powers and won't have to learn as he already has Pete's past experience.

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#30 Posted by Wyldsong (5572 posts) - - Show Bio

@Strider92: I was thinking of that interview when I read your post, I just could not locate it and could not remember what was stated specifically. Thanks for that!

#31 Posted by Knightsofdarkness2 (2263 posts) - - Show Bio

Superior should win

#32 Posted by dondave (37415 posts) - - Show Bio

SpOck

#33 Posted by highaccuser (6708 posts) - - Show Bio

From what I've seen, spOck wins handily.

#34 Posted by Wolverine08 (42240 posts) - - Show Bio

Spock repeatedly beats Miles in and out of comas.

#35 Posted by 106me (1526 posts) - - Show Bio

This mismatch didn't need to be revived.

#36 Posted by Son_of_simba (698 posts) - - Show Bio

did miles receive an upgrade or something? even morals off the miles ive read would die horribly here

#37 Edited by Eisenfauste (8283 posts) - - Show Bio

Spock repeatedly beats Miles in and out of comas.

#38 Posted by AdamAnouer (239 posts) - - Show Bio

Superior could win this easily due to experience and very questionable moral set on his part.

#39 Posted by dondave (37415 posts) - - Show Bio

SpOck

#40 Posted by The-Ultimate-Good (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Most likely SpOck would win, the only reason I don't fully state miles will lose for sure because of his venom strike. It's just like rogue how she touches people she could know them out or kill whoever, just miles doesn't asorb powers but him and SpOck have most the same abilities so that part doesn't really matter but if miles throws those venom punches on SpOck I feel he has a chance.

#41 Edited by patrat18 (9765 posts) - - Show Bio

Superior would put Miles down before he gets the chance to use V sting.

#42 Posted by Sebast_Allen (1473 posts) - - Show Bio

Miles was taking on Ultimate Goblin, making him bleed all over and Venom Striking him, he has a chance people...

#43 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5416 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd have to go with SSM.

#44 Edited by Kanen (182 posts) - - Show Bio

You can't really put miles against any of the Spider people because he is the least experienced. Give a couple of years and he'd wreck superior.