The Spectre vs The Source

I'll give you the answer as soon as you explain to us what the Source is.

" hmmm at full power? The Spectre's power is derived off the presence...  "

" @Superparody said:

" hmmm at full power? The Spectre's power is derived off the presence...  "

That's like saying the Surfer's power are derived from Galactus. Completely inconsequential. "

Interesting, any other takers?

I'll give you the answer as soon as you explain to us what the Source is.

The spectre (dont ask me for a reason, its just a gut feeling)

The Source.

Spectre

The Spectre at full power has infinite power, he is backed by The Presence after all.  The Source showed  in at least one occasion that its power is finite.  I say the green-hooded guy wins.

@___Living_Tribunal_22__ said:

The Spectre at full power has infinite power, he is backed by The Presence after all.  The Source showed  in at least one occasion that its power is finite.  I say the green-hooded guy wins.

Uh, no.   Seriously, I thought we laid that "Spectre is all powerful because God got his back" thing ages ago.

@___Living_Tribunal_22__ said:

The Spectre at full power has infinite power, he is backed by The Presence after all.  The Source showed  in at least one occasion that its power is finite.  I say the green-hooded guy wins.

Uh, no.   Seriously, I thought we laid that "Spectre is all powerful because God got his back" thing ages ago.

@___Living_Tribunal_22__ said:

The Spectre at full power has infinite power, he is backed by The Presence after all.  The Source showed  in at least one occasion that its power is finite.  I say the green-hooded guy wins.

Uh, no.   Seriously, I thought we laid that "Spectre is all powerful because God got his back" thing ages ago.

@AtPhantom said:

@___Living_Tribunal_22__ said:

The Spectre at full power has infinite power, he is backed by The Presence after all.  The Source showed  in at least one occasion that its power is finite.  I say the green-hooded guy wins.

Uh, no.   Seriously, I thought we laid that "Spectre is all powerful because God got his back" thing ages ago.

Spectre is 1 aspect of God. Spectre is gods wrath. Spectre does not have all gods power. Spectre has unlimited power if backed by God. Spectre doesnt have infinite power if backed thats different.

Also, its was stated in DOV the the Source may actually be another aspect of the presence so this battle is far from undecided.

Spectre is 1 aspect of God. Spectre is gods wrath. Spectre does not have all gods power. Spectre has unlimited power if backed by God. Spectre doesnt have infinite power if backed thats different.

Although if it was true, God must absolutely detest the Spectre.

All the same thing. But Spectre isn't all powerful. Even when backed by the Presence, he does not have all of the Presence's power. Exactly when has he EVER had full power? In DoV, he was doing all those things because he was corrupted. The Presence punished him later, and therefore he didn't have all of the Presence's power. In CoIE, he had the power of all of the Earth's mystics backing him (like what they did to Captain Marvel in DoV, but stronger).  

Uh, no.  
 

Seriously, I thought we laid that "Spectre is all powerful because God got his back" thing ages ago.

Also, its was stated in DOV the the Source may actually be another aspect of the presence so this battle is far from undecided.

@supermandefender said:

@AtPhantom said:

@___Living_Tribunal_22__ said:

The Spectre at full power has infinite power, he is backed by The Presence after all.  The Source showed  in at least one occasion that its power is finite.  I say the green-hooded guy wins.

Uh, no.   Seriously, I thought we laid that "Spectre is all powerful because God got his back" thing ages ago.

Spectre is 1 aspect of God. Spectre is gods wrath. Spectre does not have all gods power. Spectre has unlimited power if backed by God. Spectre doesnt have infinite power if backed thats different.

You have no idea what you're talking about, and, frankly, neither do I.

Spectre is 1 aspect of God. Spectre is gods wrath. Spectre does not have all gods power. Spectre has unlimited power if backed by God. Spectre doesnt have infinite power if backed thats different.

  
 
What's the difference between unlimited and infinite? As far as I'm concerned, unlimited means no limits, and I consider having and end a limit. 
 - unlimited power means you can do pretty much anything......infinite power means your like all-powerful. Omnipotence is unlimited and infinite power. By definition. But this is my understand of it.

Although if it was true, God must absolutely detest the Spectre.

  
 
I do think The Presence might want The Spectre to experiment all failures of a mortal as he got involved with the Justice Society. 
 

All the same thing. But Spectre isn't all powerful. Even when backed by the Presence, he does not have all of the Presence's power. Exactly when has he EVER had full power? In DoV, he was doing all those things because he was corrupted. The Presence punished him later, and therefore he didn't have all of the Presence's power. In CoIE, he had the power of all of the Earth's mystics backing him (like what they did to Captain Marvel in DoV, but stronger).  

 
I always thought he was fully powered when he fought Great Evil Beast and defeated his finger. 
 Thats true. I thought the same 2.

Uh, no.  
 

Seriously, I thought we laid that "Spectre is all powerful because God got his back" thing ages ago.

  
 
I say that at full power Spectre is very well above multiversal beings like Eternity, and thus above The Source, whose power is finite. 
 

Also, its was stated in DOV the the Source may actually be another aspect of the presence so this battle is far from undecided.

   When was it stated in Day of Vengeance?

- unlimited power means you can do pretty much anything......infinite power means your like all-powerful. Omnipotence is unlimited and infinite power. By definition. But this is my understand of it. 

@supermandefender said:

- unlimited power means you can do pretty much anything......infinite power means your like all-powerful. Omnipotence is unlimited and infinite power. By definition. But this is my understand of it. 

Every dictionary in the world hates you right about now.

I say that at full power Spectre is very well above multiversal beings like Eternity, and thus above The Source, whose power is finite. 

A lot of Spectre's power is implied rather than explicit.

The Source wins,cause it's the Source Duh.

@___Living_Tribunal_22__ said:

I say that at full power Spectre is very well above multiversal beings like Eternity, and thus above The Source, whose power is finite. 

This speaks volumes on just how much you know on the Spectre and Source. Spectre and the Source have interacted on two separate occasions, and both times the Source was shown as being orders of magnitude beyond the Spectre itself, to the point where Spectre couldn't even comprehend its true nature. 
 
The Source being finite and on the level of Eternity is a claim you completely made up and cannot back up in any way, because NOBODY knows what the hell the Source is or exactly how powerful it is. It is possibly the most mysterious force in all of DCU. The closest we ever got to actually seeing what the Source is and can do was in Death of the New Gods, and Grant Morrison retconned that almost instantly. So, again, no. Read up on the characters.

The spectre (dont ask me for a reason, its just a gut feeling)

@AtPhantom said:

@___Living_Tribunal_22__ said:

I say that at full power Spectre is very well above multiversal beings like Eternity, and thus above The Source, whose power is finite. 

This speaks volumes on just how much you know on the Spectre and Source. Spectre and the Source have interacted on two separate occasions, and both times the Source was shown as being orders of magnitude beyond the Spectre itself, to the point where Spectre couldn't even comprehend its true nature. 
 
The Source being finite and on the level of Eternity is a claim you completely made up and cannot back up in any way, because NOBODY knows what the hell the Source is or exactly how powerful it is. It is possibly the most mysterious force in all of DCU. The closest we ever got to actually seeing what the Source is and can do was in Death of the New Gods, and Grant Morrison retconned that almost instantly. So, again, no. Read up on the characters.

Spectre is probably the most overrated character since Dr. Manhattan, especially in the Battle Forums. After doing some reading on The Source (and it got quite confusing), I'd say Spectre loses this horribly.

This speaks volumes on just how much you know on the Spectre and Source. Spectre and the Source have interacted on two separate occasions, and both times the Source was shown as being orders of magnitude beyond the Spectre itself, to the point where Spectre couldn't even comprehend its true nature. 
 
The Source being finite and on the level of Eternity is a claim you completely made up and cannot back up in any way, because NOBODY knows what the hell the Source is or exactly how powerful it is. It is possibly the most mysterious force in all of DCU. The closest we ever got to actually seeing what the Source is and can do was in Death of the New Gods, and Grant Morrison retconned that almost instantly. So, again, no. Read up on the characters.

 

All the same thing. But Spectre isn't all powerful. Even when backed by the Presence, he does not have all of the Presence's power. Exactly when has he EVER had full power? In DoV, he was doing all those things because he was corrupted. The Presence punished him later, and therefore he didn't have all of the Presence's power. In CoIE, he had the power of all of the Earth's mystics backing him (like what they did to Captain Marvel in DoV, but stronger).  

 
I always thought he was fully powered when he fought Great Evil Beast and defeated his finger. 

 

Also, its was stated in DOV the the Source may actually be another aspect of the presence so this battle is far from undecided.

   When was it stated in Day of Vengeance?

   I thought we were using Full-Powered Spectre for this fight? Not the jobber that interacted with The Source. 

I think the Source's powers are finite, because two reasons:  1) It got attacked and separated of the ALE by the Old Gods. 2) It got stalemated by Soulfire Darkseid.  If it had infinite power that shouldn't have happened. I don't even think The Source is a character.

and Grant Morrison retconned that almost instantly. 

@supermandefender said:

- unlimited power means you can do pretty much anything......infinite power means your like all-powerful. Omnipotence is unlimited and infinite power. By definition. But this is my understand of it. 

Every dictionary in the world hates you right about now.

Tell you what. Go find a Latin dictionary and translate what in-finitus means. I'll wait.

The Source.
 
As a side note, I think in Genesis, the Spectre pierced the Source Wall to a degree but when the godwave was being unleashed I remember even he was being repelled away. I don't remember it too well since it's been a while since I read that story but I feel it shows the Source has more power than the Spectre.

The Presence = the Hand = the Word = the Source.

All the same thing. But Spectre isn't all powerful. Even when backed by the Presence, he does not have all of the Presence's power.

Exactly when has he EVER had full power? In DoV, he was doing all those things because he was corrupted.

The Presence punished him later, and therefore he didn't have all of the Presence's power.

In CoIE, he had the power of all of the Earth's mystics backing him (like what they did to Captain Marvel in DoV, but stronger).

When was it stated in Day of Vengeance?

@JediXMan: 
 

The Presence = the Hand = the Word = the Source.

This is grey area, as AtPhantom said the source is not a very well defined character and his most detailed showing was retcon'd. Where are you getting this info from anyway? Just curious because many different comics contradict each other and I would like to know if I missed any books defining there relation.

All the same thing. But Spectre isn't all powerful. Even when backed by the Presence, he does not have all of the Presence's power.

From what I have read the presence has never "backed" the Spectre. Can you elaborate with an example perhaps? Even in older publications the Spectre would often call on his master for help/power/guidance etc but in the end it was always shown the Spectre and or its host that would determine his actual power. I recall the Presence forcing the Spectre into a host but never giving him a power up or "backing" him.

Exactly when has he EVER had full power? In DoV, he was doing all those things because he was corrupted.

That is a good question, one I can not answer. In DOV he was host-less, even before Eclipso manipulated him his abilities were already limited because of that reason. In the Spectre's first showing during DOV the Spectre actually told Shazam that without a host he would forget the conversation they had shortly afterwards and that he cannot be relied upon. Despite what many believe the Spectre and its power have nothing to do with being "backed" by the Presence, they do however greatly rely on the host; how strong the bond between the two is; and the faith of the host as well (A good example would be Final Crisis: Revelations). The Spectre while host-less was never shown to be more powerful than with a host. Host-less it is more ruthless and does not hold back, it also is weak-minded, forgetful and sometimes just plain stupid.

 

The Presence punished him later, and therefore he didn't have all of the Presence's power.

Again, I never claimed he was at full power in DOV, in fact I believe he was far from it. The Spectre being host-less is not a power up, it actually greatly limits its abilities.

In CoIE, he had the power of all of the Earth's mystics backing him (like what they did to Captain Marvel in DoV, but stronger).

Yep, I am well aware of this and never stated otherwise, thank you. One thing that should be noted is that during the DOV arc the Spectre also was able to draw upon the powers of others (Forcefully) and said that in duress he can draw power from anyone/anything. This would mean that what he was able to do in COIE can possibly be replicated without the support freely given to him (granted some may be able to resist). 

 On a side note: is there a difference between the Source and the Source Wall, and if so what is it? Just curious. 

If i am not mistaken, the Source easilly ejected the Spectre from its presence behind the Source Wall, if I remember correctly it was in the last days of Corrigan where they thought God was missing and were out looking for him.

@JediXMan said:

 On a side note: is there a difference between the Source and the Source Wall, and if so what is it? Just curious. 

The Source, in the New gods mythos, is the ultimate primal energy/life force/ guiding will of the universe. The Source wall is an actual physical wall circumventing the physical universe. It is called the Source Wall because the Source is believed to reside behind it (whether it actually does reside behind it depends on the writer). The Wall is an almost impenetrable barrier and it takes a wast amount of power to actually break through it (The Spectre actually being one of the few beings able to do so relatively casually). The bodies of those who try and fail to penetrate it litter the wall, giving it distinct appearance.

@AtPhantom said:

@JediXMan said:

 On a side note: is there a difference between the Source and the Source Wall, and if so what is it? Just curious. 

The Source, in the New gods mythos, is the ultimate primal energy/life force/ guiding will of the universe. The Source wall is an actual physical wall circumventing the physical universe. It is called the Source Wall because the Source is believed to reside behind it (whether it actually does reside behind it depends on the writer). The Wall is an almost impenetrable barrier and it takes a wast amount of power to actually break through it (The Spectre actually being one of the few beings able to do so relatively casually). The bodies of those who try and fail to penetrate it litter the wall, giving it distinct appearance.

So what's on the otherside? i've heard that the wall seperates DC from Vertigo.

@entropy_aegis said:

@AtPhantom said:

@JediXMan said:

 On a side note: is there a difference between the Source and the Source Wall, and if so what is it? Just curious. 

The Source, in the New gods mythos, is the ultimate primal energy/life force/ guiding will of the universe. The Source wall is an actual physical wall circumventing the physical universe. It is called the Source Wall because the Source is believed to reside behind it (whether it actually does reside behind it depends on the writer). The Wall is an almost impenetrable barrier and it takes a wast amount of power to actually break through it (The Spectre actually being one of the few beings able to do so relatively casually). The bodies of those who try and fail to penetrate it litter the wall, giving it distinct appearance.

So what's on the otherside? i've heard that the wall seperates DC from Vertigo.

Think that was actually explained in depth during the Death of the New Gods.

So what's on the otherside? i've heard that the wall seperates DC from Vertigo.

Source blinks him out of the existence

The source is basically the universe but The Spectre is multiversal therefore he wins

I'm not sure what the source is anymore...

The source has this.

-----

So, the Source is the reason why DC has gods and superheros.. It sent waved into their universe.

Completely we have never seen that much of Source nor its display of powers... What we do know is it uss to power Highfather up to complete or near unlimited power.

THE SOURCE was already said to he stronger than Lucifer and Michael, so that gives us a hint that not even Beyonder or Spectre can handle it..

Another thing is the Source is full omnipotent, omnipresence, omniscience, etc.. That lets us know either its the rival of the Presence, a partner of some sort, or it could be a immensely powerful being/object created by the presence....

The Source has a dark version of itself which could destroy universes with ease. The Spectre has nothing on it...

I say Source wins this...