The Spectre vs The Celestials

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XiiX

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Edited By XiiX

Poll The Spectre vs The Celestials (223 votes)

A Small amount 16%
A Moderate amount 14%
A Significant amount 21%
All Of Them 49%

Spectre VS Celestials

- The Spectre is at full power.

-Roughly how many does he have the greatest chance of destroying?

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jwwprod

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#1  Edited By jwwprod

Spectre should be able to take all of them excpet for this guy:

No Caption Provided

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juiceboks

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#4  Edited By juiceboks  Moderator

Full powered Spectre is multiversal(see Zero Hour). Celestials ain't got nothing on him.

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deactivated-1358091

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@juiceboks: That was a regular Corrigan Spectre. There was no special amplification involved. Still, he indirectly stomped Parallax by letting him blast him thus making Parallax lose most of his energy and Kyle Rayner and Green Arrow beat him fairly easy. Whether believe it or not, without PIS, Spectre is the most powerful being in DCU after Presence,GEB,Lucifer and Michael and the Endless.

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juiceboks

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#6  Edited By juiceboks  Moderator

@juiceboks: That was a regular Corrigan Spectre. There was no special amplification involved. Still, he indirectly stomped Parallax by letting him blast him thus making Parallax lose most of his energy and Kyle Rayner and Green Arrow beat him fairly easy. Whether believe it or not, without PIS, Spectre is the most powerful being in DCU after Presence,GEB,Lucifer and Michael and the Endless.

I know, I was just referencing an example of how powerful the Spectre can be if he so chooses. Not to mention he basically rewrote the DC multiverse with the Big Bang right afterwards.

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Vaeternus

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#7  Edited By Vaeternus

Spectre

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rolldestroyer

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#8  Edited By rolldestroyer

@juiceboks said:

Full powered Spectre is multiversal(see Zero Hour). Celestials ain't got nothing on him.

Celestials created the multiverse with their mere will, and marvel multiverse is always depicted as being constituted of infinite, even trans-infinite amount of universes. That's a feat the spectre has never achieved. He wasn't the one who was fully responsible for big bang (which was a universal big bang not multiversal)....

Anyway, im certainly not saying that any average celestial could handle the spectre, they also have their share of low showings (though spectre does as well), but im positively sure that the spectre can't handle the whole celestial race (putting scathan aside). Id say he could take a moderate amount of them, max.

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homicidalmaniac

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#10 juiceboks  Moderator

@juiceboks said:

Full powered Spectre is multiversal(see Zero Hour). Celestials ain't got nothing on him.

Celestials created the multiverse with their mere will, and marvel multiverse is always depicted as being constituted of infinite, even trans-infinite amount of universes. That's a feat the spectre has never achieved. He wasn't the one who was fully responsible for big bang (which was a universal big bang not multiversal)....

Anyway, im certainly not saying that any average celestial could handle the spectre, they also have their share of low showings (though spectre does as well), but im positively sure that the spectre can't handle the whole celestial race (putting scathan aside). Id say he could take a moderate amount of them, max.

Yes, he was actually responsible for the recreation of the DC multiverse. Parallax was destroying reality after reality until it destroyed the prime reality thus destroying the multiverse. Granted, he subdued Spectre temporarily at first..but he came back and redid all the damage.

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It's been a while since I've read ZH..but I'm pretty sure that's how it happened.

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Vaeternus

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patrat18

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Spectre.

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deactivated-1358091

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@rolldestroyer: So can Zero Hour Parallax and Mxyzptlk create and destroy multiverse or even more with there wills.

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And look at what happened to them when a PIS free Spectre showed up

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The last two scans are from a Superman story that was released after the conclusion of the Day of Vengeance.

Also not to mention this favourite scan of mine.

No Caption Provided

Without PIS, Spectre is the most powerful being in the DCU after Presence, Great Evil Beast, Lucifer and Michael and the Endless.

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KingOfAsh

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How strong is a single Celestrial? Until I know I'd say he beats 'em all.

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jwwprod

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How strong is a single Celestrial? Until I know I'd say he beats 'em all.

They are usealy Galactus level expet for a few like Scathan who defeated Protege (A being who becomed more powerful then the Living Tribunal) by disapproving him.

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deactivated-1358091

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@jwwprod: Lol. ''Disapproving him'' No wonder why Marvel's cosmic beings are a joke (not in terms of power) compared to DC's.

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jwwprod

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#17  Edited By jwwprod

@jwwprod: Lol. ''Disapproving him'' No wonder why Marvel's cosmic beings are a joke (not in terms of power) compared to DC's.

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KingOfAsh

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@jwwprod said:

@kingofash said:

How strong is a single Celestrial? Until I know I'd say he beats 'em all.

They are usealy Galactus level expet for a few like Scathan who defeated Protege (A being who becomed more powerful then the Living Tribunal) by disapproving him.

Ok thanks. By the way how many times is it now that someone has become stronger than the Living Tribunal?

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deactivated-1358091

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@juiceboks: There was actually one strong positive matter reality that was formed by the merging of all the positive matter universes with elements of the last five universes that Anti Monitor could not destroy.

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rolldestroyer

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#20  Edited By rolldestroyer

@juiceboks said:

Yes, he was actually responsible for the recreation of the DC multiverse. Parallax was destroying reality after reality until it destroyed the prime reality thus destroying the multiverse. Granted, he subdued Spectre temporarily at first..but he came back and redid all the damage.

It's been a while since I've read ZH..but I'm pretty sure that's how it happened.

Firstly, the big bang is universal it was stated in the very next page after your scan.

No Caption Provided

Second of all, spectre wasn't responsible for this at all. It was the other heroes who were absorbing parallax's energy which then they processed through damage, that was their plan:

ZHP couldn't recreate the multiverse with on a whim, nor does your scan suggest so. Furthermore, it says that he would have recreated much (meaning not everything, not infinite universes) of what was before the crisis.

I wouldn't say that Mxy could recreate the multiverse with his will, universe? sure, joker before achieving his full potential could, but there's no proof that he could destroy the multiverse, the scan simply suggests that if the joker achieves the full potential of mxy's power, everything would be destroyed.

And look at what happened to them when a PIS free Spectre showed up

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107191/3352355-zerohour020cj0.jpg

Already explained that.

The last two scans are from a Superman story that was released after the conclusion of the Day of Vengeance.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107191/3352356-mxy_ruin1.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107191/3352357-mxy_ruin2.jpg

Yeah, im aware of that showing, it's certainly a good one, one of the best in fact, still though we shouldn't ignore the 2 (excluding world's funnest) showings the spectre has against the imps (joker didn't even reach his full potential when he put the spectre in a bird cage)

Also not to mention this favourite scan of mine.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/107191/3050659-spectre_hal_jordan_006.jpg

Without PIS, Spectre is the most powerful being in the DCU after Presence, Great Evil Beast, Lucifer and Michael and the Endless.

I don't see how a hyperbole contributes anything here, if anything i could post a scan where a random celestial is depicted as having trans-infinite levels of power dwarfing that of cosmic cubes (like kubik and kosmos/beyonder, whose Secret Wars feats btw, were never retconned except his fight with the celestials), a statement which holds more weight than your scan, considering it was confirmed by a bio and has an on panel showing which proves said statement.

Not really, there are several others, off the top of my head, 1 who has been shown to be far above the spectre, is abraxis.

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isaac_clarke

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#21  Edited By isaac_clarke

The Spectre would have a fight on his hands dealing with a single Celestial - let alone all of them. Unless someone has a recent depiction of power for the character where he wasn't flaoting above normal Parallax.

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rolldestroyer

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@isaac_clarke said:

The Spectre would have a fight on his hands dealing with a single Celestial - let alone all of them. Unless someone has a recent depiction of power for the character where he wasn't flaoting above normal Parallax.

in Phantom stranger #5 (new 52), it was implied by the presence that a battle between the spectre and phantom stranger could destroy the multiverse.

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homicidalmaniac

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#23  Edited By homicidalmaniac
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#24  Edited By homicidalmaniac

@patrat18 said:

Spectre.

would lose to Scathan

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Vaeternus

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#25  Edited By Vaeternus

@rolldestroyer: So can Zero Hour Parallax and Mxyzptlk create and destroy multiverse or even more with there wills.

No Caption Provided
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And look at what happened to them when a PIS free Spectre showed up

No Caption Provided
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The last two scans are from a Superman story that was released after the conclusion of the Day of Vengeance.

Also not to mention this favourite scan of mine.

No Caption Provided

Without PIS, Spectre is the most powerful being in the DCU after Presence, Great Evil Beast, Lucifer and Michael and the Endless.

Great post. Also, I can't seem to find it but there was the arch where Spectre literally hold two universes together from destroying all reality. But i'm sure you know what I'm speaking of.

@homicidalmaniac said:

@vaeternus said:

@homicidalmaniac: yep in an utter stomp.

I know Spectre is powerful,but he is losing to the Celestials race.

Spectre would beat them, did you check out his feats? They far surpass anything Celestials have done. Also keep in mind, some writers have had Spectre jobber, while ones who wrote him at full power showed what he can do and what he's capable of...

Celestials have had trouble or been defeated by Thanos, Thor etc both of which Spectre would demolish easily.

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homicidalmaniac

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#26  Edited By homicidalmaniac

@vaeternus:

I know about the Spectre feats.Scathan is above/equal to the Living Tribunal and LT is above Spectre.The Celestials race are Multiverse and the Spectre have lost to multiverse level characters.

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Vaeternus

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@ homidalmanicac, Scathan was never that much more powerful then LT and no where near TOAA, this is my issue with Marvel from Pre ret beyonder to Scathan to Thanos with HOTU, they try to make numerous characters on part with TOAA....with silly gimmicks.

Feat wise, Spectre has better feats then any celestial at his best.

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homicidalmaniac

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@vaeternus: I never say that Scathan was TOAA level.Scathan beat Protege who just copy Living Tribunal powers.Feats wise,The some Celestials are stated to be more powerful than Phoenix Force.The Fifth Host of the Celestials beaten the Goblin Force(GF beaten the PF and Galactus).

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#30  Edited By Vaeternus

@homicidalmaniac: You just said scathan was equal to LT and TOAA, you edited the post...but whatever lol. But Protege is NOT LT though...Amazo copies the JL's powers but has been defeated by them individually at times or by just a few of them. Duplicating ones power doesn't mean you're more powerful then that automatically.

Phoenix Force isn't all that powerful if you break it down since Iron Man can make suits that can deal or defeat it. Or has anyway.

As the scans showed, above and once I find it Spectre was literally holding multiverse together from being destroyed in one arch. and In the new 52 when Spectre and Stranger fought, all of reality was being compromised as stated by the Presence. That issue I happen to own.

Here, Spectre nearly became one with God/Presence and having knowledge by absorbing a billion universes/multiverses...everything at once....so I will still go Spectre here...considering what he's acomplished.

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homicidalmaniac

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@homicidalmaniac: You just said scathan was equal to LT and TOAA, you edited the post...but whatever lol. But Protege is NOT LT though...Amazo copies the JL's powers but has been defeated by them individually at times or by just a few of them. Duplicating ones power doesn't mean you're more powerful then that automatically.

Phoenix Force isn't all that powerful if you break it down since Iron Man can make suits that can deal or defeat it. Or has anyway.

As the scans showed, above and once I find it Spectre was literally holding multiverse together from being destroyed in one arch. and In the new 52 when Spectre and Stranger fought, all of reality was being compromised as stated by the Presence. That issue I happen to own.


I never say anything about TOAA in any of my posts and I edit only for misspells.The only TOAA that Scathan is above is the Celestial OAA.Amazo is not as strong as Protege.Living Tribunal was helpless against LT powered Protege til Scathan beat Protege.The Phoenix can be on Skyfather to Universe to Multiverse level.I recall Iron Man had a lot of prep when he fraction the PF.

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#32  Edited By Cable_Extreme

Spectre, while being amazing, would have his hands full with a single celestial, he may lose or win a match like that, however, Spectre will fall to all of them.

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Vaeternus

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#33  Edited By Vaeternus

@ homicidalmaniac, You had earlier ^ mentioned TOAA then removed it for whatever erason, I saw it but whatever...matters now, points is Celestials or Scathan aren't as powerful as TOAA. Spectre at one point was nearly as powerful as Presence/God if you look at my previous scan....and literally became one with billions of universes/multiverses.

I wasn't comparing Amazo to Protege, my point was just because one can duplicate similar powers doesn't mean you're as powerful as the former subject.

Yeah, lots of prep but still. Shouldn't matter considering Phoenix should destroy any version of Iron Man realistically speaking.

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rolldestroyer

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@vaeternus:

your scan is out of context. It was the source who granted the spectre that kind of power.

Protege was confirmed to be above LT.

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kidman560

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@jwwprod: Lol. ''Disapproving him'' No wonder why Marvel's cosmic beings are a joke (not in terms of power) compared to DC's.

umm the Beyonder, LT, Galactus, the Vishanti, Cytorrak, just to name a few!

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Vaeternus

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#36  Edited By Vaeternus

@rolldestroyer said:

@vaeternus:

your scan is out of context. It was the source who granted the spectre that kind of power.

Protege was confirmed to be above LT.

My point was to show how Powerful Spectre can be or has been, so in that respect not out of context. I know but the source is also but apart of the presence(or so DC has hinted). The New 52 I don't think this is the case but to be fair I haven't been following GL, but I do nearly everything else JL, Phantom Stranger, JL Dark etc which hasn't mentioned much of the Source if at all.

I was merely saying once the Source had that kind of power Spectre was practially uber godlike on top of his normal power...which is a lot.

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isaac_clarke

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#37  Edited By isaac_clarke

@rolldestroyer: Astonishing X-Men #61 Two Celestials create the Marvel Multiverse; one shot zany feats away.

@vaeternus: Where in that scan did the Spectre become one with a billion multiverses and how the devil could this remotely even be the case given the nature of the DCU's very tiny multiverse?

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deactivated-1358091

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@kidman560: I said ''not in terms of power''. Read my post carefully.

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#39  Edited By Saren

Why are people using pre-Flashpoint Spectre when the rules give a very clear definition of which version to use?

From a power perspective, you might as well use post-Flashpoint Spectre. He got into a fight with the Phantom Stranger that the Presence personally broke up because it would have destroyed all of reality. It's only one feat, but it's better than the vast majority of pre-Flashpoint Spectre's.

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ComicStooge

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Why are people using pre-Flashpoint Spectre when the rules give a very clear definition of which version to use?

From a power perspective, you might as well use post-Flashpoint Spectre. He got into a fight with the Phantom Stranger that the Presence personally broke up because it would have destroyed all of reality. It's only one feat, but it's better than the vast majority of pre-Flashpoint Spectre's.

Isn't that picture of Pre-Reboot Spectre?

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Killemall

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@killemallYour opinion

I am among few people who believe a moderate amount of Celestials would be enough.

Honestly high end feat i could quote quite a few from Celestials, like Celestials being said to be infinitely more powerful than Cosmic Cube beings who themselves have shown feats on trans-multiversal level. We have seen Kubik, hold an entire universe in his arm, praying that a Celestial doesnt judge against him because that would mean Celestial would kill him. We have seen a first host of Celestial, 5 in total create the entire marvel multiverse. We have seen 5 Mad Celestial from Reality 4320 collapse entire marvel multiverse, tank attacks from Ultimate Nullifier and Infinity Gauntlet.

Geez some of Celestial high ends feat are just legendary, and while Celestial have some very ordinary showing, Spectre himself isnt much different i suppose.

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Emperorb777

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I would say a very large amount or even all because the majority of them would be featless.

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#46  Edited By Killemall

@sithlantern93: Thats more to do with the fact that last 2 week i have been trying to collect virtually every issue i can find where Celestials have appeared, across every reality. Man the kind of feats you start seeing, does wonders to one's perspective about a certain characters.

Also we are no longer limited to merely the forth host of Celestials in this thread, sort of helps, coz more than half the feats mentioned by me are not from forth host.

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rolldestroyer

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@killemall: Also,inMutant X, the celestials beat a legit abstract - the goblin force. Who was devouring Galactus and the phoenix force and absorbed their power, yet the celestials still managed to contain it.

@rolldestroyer: Astonishing X-Men #61 Two Celestials create the Marvel Multiverse; one shot zany feats away.

@vaeternus: Where in that scan did the Spectre become one with a billion multiverses and how the devil could this remotely even be the case given the nature of the DCU's very tiny multiverse?

it was 4 celestials, and im already aware of that feat. If you read my initial post you'll realize that i said celestials have done something which spectre hasn't and most likely couldn't: create the multiverse.

the scan is from a 1997 comic, that is to say, the mutiverse didn't exist, nonetheless DC has referenced it multiple times even resurrected the concept indirectly in the form of hypertime, but that wasn't until 1999. Still there are several instances when the multiverse was referenced pre-1999. So you couldn't really say that DC has a tiny multiverse. That was only in 2006, where DC became constituted of 52 universes only.

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Hyper_God

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While it would be logical for people to vote option number 4 simply because of the Spectre's recent fight with the Phantom Stranger , let's not forget that Galactus , Scrier and the Other performed a somewhat similar feat in the Thor Annual .

I would presume that it would take a large host of Celestials(certainly bigger than the one which crushed the Destroyer) to take on Spectre , and to be generous let's say that it's the same size as the one which fought from the Galactus Engine . Option 3 , by default becomes the most sensible one therefore .

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thanosii

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The Spectre is powerful yes but ALL the celestials?? Come on really, that would include Scathan and transcended Tiamut, among others. This is a threat Spectre has not faced conisdering his defeat at the hands of ZHP, AM, two Madrakks, his battle against Nabu etc. he ain't taking on more than a moderate number

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deactivated-1358091

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@thanosii: He never fought two of the Mandrakks. He only fought Rox Ogama. He did not lose to Zero Hour Parallax. He let Hal himself hit him and spend most of his energy while Kyle, Donna and other heroes were absorbing the power of the intangible small plasma universe that Parallax made to demonstrate what he could do. Spectre fought Nabu two times. He easily stomped Nabu on their first encounter and he was not unbound as he was when they fought in Day of Vengeance. Spectre did not lose to Anti Monitor, on the contrary, he made him much less powerful, banished him back to Anti Matter universe and merged the multiverse into the single and powerful reality New Earth. I know Spectre was amplified but his amplification was no where near Anti Monitor's, who had the had power of all the multiverse except the last 5 remaining universes before traveling to the dawn of time and also had the power of all the heroes of the remaining multiverse when he fought Spectre. Spectre had only 2 beings (Phantom Stranger and Thunderbolt) that could be universal in terms of power amplifying him. The rest were Zatanna, Madame Xanadu, Zatara, White Witch, Dr Fate (Though he could be considered universal at best by most but so much imo) and Sargon the Sorcerer. In fact Spectre was depowered by the Presence for not stopping the Crisis on Infinite Earths, meaning that was capable. You can't find that scan in the internet. It is written in the introduction of the first issue of Spectre v2 series. But as much as I hate to admit, Spectre is not taking all the Celestials if Scathan is involved, given his ability to overpower a being who had the powers of LT, Post Retcon Beyonder and Eternity.