#1 Edited by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

The Shadow

VS

Fantomex

Round one

  • In character
  • Fantomex has his misdirection
  • Both are armed with dual pistols
  • win by KO/Death/Incapacitation

Round two

  • Same as round one except neither have there powers

Location

  • Begin visible
  • Start 25 feet apart
  • fight takes place here:

Who wins and why?

#2 Edited by laflux (15896 posts) - - Show Bio

Was this thread made to find out what the Shadow is made of >:)

Online
#3 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9407 posts) - - Show Bio
#4 Posted by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

Was this thread made to find out what the Shadow is made of >:)

Not really. My understanding is there powers are very similar.

#5 Posted by dondave (37394 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say Fantomex, his misdirecton worked on Xavier and Jean IIRC

#6 Posted by Strider92 (16454 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 1: Fantomex. The Shadows powers are good and are magic based which makes them more versatile however how easily the Shadow can control people is based on their will power for example if someone is very weak willed its easy for him to mess with their head but people with great willpower can resist. Fantomex has no such handicap that is assuming his power would work on the Shadow.

Round 2: I've seen far more impressive combat feats from The Shadow than Fantomex so Shadow by a long shot.

#7 Posted by laflux (15896 posts) - - Show Bio

Round 2: I've seen far more impressive combat feats from The Shadow than Fantomex so Shadow by a long shot.

I'm not sure if I remember this correctly, but Fantomex was supposed to have done better in the whole Weapon " " training than Logan did. Nothing I've seen from him confirms that in all fairness, and to be honest X-23 was stated to do the same thing, and her combat feats <Logan's.

Online
#8 Posted by Strider92 (16454 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: I don't think i've seen anything that puts Fantomex anywhere near Logan's level in terms of skill.

#9 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@cjdavis103 said:

@indiecomicsftw

Your boy has been called out let it rip

Oh boy...

@jashro44 said:

@laflux said:

Was this thread made to find out what the Shadow is made of >:)

Not really. My understanding is there powers are very similar.

Very similar.

@strider92 said:

Round 1: Fantomex. The Shadows powers are good and are magic based which makes them more versatile however how easily the Shadow can control people is based on their will power for example if someone is very weak willed its easy for him to mess with their head but people with great willpower can resist. Fantomex has no such handicap that is assuming his power would work on the Shadow.

Round 2: I've seen far more impressive combat feats from The Shadow than Fantomex so Shadow by a long shot.

I think this is false.

His powers work fine on Green Hornet and Kato here. both of which have insane will power to fight injustice at the cost of their lives.

Weaker wills require less stress on the Shadow, that much is true, but he can and has affected people with tremendous will power. The only people immune to his Misdirects have been People with their own unique Mystical Powers. Examples of this is were Black Sparrow (She was somehow immune to all his powers), The Dragon (Possessing the bodies of 2 kids with insane mystical power), and Raja (who had the same powers of shadow, they canceled their powers out.)

Thats it. Even the Souless men who were immune to Shadow's Precognition and Soul Reading were victime to his Cloud Minds and Hypnosis. The Light who also has mystical power has shown to be affected by Shadow's powers in their latest battle.

List of Shadows Powers here and Scans to back up what I be sayin.

Reading the Hearts of Men

This is a very confusing and unique power. Sort of like Telepathy, however has nothing to do with Mind Control or Reading. It is more Soul Reading and Control. Its a mystic power that The Shadow uses to deal out justice. This power seems to require Line of Sight to work. Add to that some people remain immune to it if they are Mystics, Souless, or protected by Fate. This power also seems to manipulate the Dead and dying into carrying out orders or stay alive till he is through with them.

1) Explains how this power works. Its like a Road Map with all the tour spots listed. In this scan the Black Sparrow is immune to his Mystic powers for unexplained reasons.

2) Spots the evil soul of a target. He had no clue who he was looking for till he spot the Soul which revealed all it needed for Shadow to find who he was looking for.

3) Uses this power to know if man is lying or telling truth. He does this alot in the comics. He also reads his next thoughts to attack.

4-5) Digs into the past Evils of this Nazi.

6) Reads the Spider's secrete identity with a glance.

Hypnotize

The Shadow uses his ability to Hypnotize, Sway, or Command the Dead to accomplish goals with the power of his voice. Only the Mystically powered, or those protected by Fate are immune. Even the dead and dying are not immune to the commanding voice of The Shadow.

1) Hypnotizes suggests Airfield Mechanic.

2) Sways Bar owner to his use.

3) Hypnotizes suggests to a British Major what he needs to do.

4-5) Hypnotizes Nazi into seeing the evil he had done to his mom.

6) Sways suggests a souless soldier of WW1 to kill himself.

7) Explains he can manipulate the Living and Dead if he has too.

8-9) Commands the dead pilot to live again and land them before fleeing into death.

10) Commands a dead soldier to return to camp to spread fear before striking.

11) Commands a dead assassin with a bullet in his head to reveal info.

Cloud Men's Minds

The Shadow uses his ability to Mystically Misdirect foes to accomplish goals. Only the Mystically powered, or those protected by Fate are immune. Extreme Will foes can resist it to a degree, but they are still shown to be affected by it in some way, including other Heroes like the Green Hornet and his side kick Kato.

1) Clouds mind of business man to enter his windowless office unseen.

2) Clouds Soldier's mind into seeing none of his Shadow gear.

3) Misdirects Assassins to think he was a painting.

4-6) The Shadow enters and leaves this detective's office from the shadows by clouding his mind.

7) Clouds the minds of the Green Hornet and his sidekick Kato to disappear in the Shadows.

8) Clouds the minds of a whole Dock Yard to board a ship.

9) Misdirects a small Japanese and Chinese army to get to the Buffalo.

10-11) Shadow enters a tiny room on a ship, this room has no windows of course, located in the bowels, and is barely big enough to fit 4 men. Clouds the minds to enter with no probs.

12) Misdirects multiple gangsters firing at him.

The Shadow Knows

This is a form of precognition. Simple as that. He is a servant of Justice, but this Justice is all due to Fate. Fate grants him visions of key events, and the ability after looking into someones heart the glimpses of their futures. Sometimes for Plot, Fate grants nothing, which The Shadow searches out why, and always never grants him the full story or info to accomplish a task. However he does use this to see others futures and predict people's action in a fight. This ability is use as a Line of sight power, like Reading the Hearts of Men. It also may tell him of a opponents next action, but it is up to the Shadow to react to said action.

1) Key explanation on the Shadow's precog abilities. He cannot fathom all possible endings, only the key ones that matter in his fights.

2) Starts speaking of Margo's future in casual talk.

3-6) Shadow uses his Precog to see the fate of one of his worst enemies, knowing Justice was served.

7) Uses Precog to predict the mans actions and intent.

8-9) Uses his power to glimpse what had happen already rather than what will happen. He can see what has happen as well it seems.

10) Shadow foresees World War 2 and the Nazi Regime.

Stealth and Traveling

I'm not super sure how the Shadow as a peak Man can do all this, but he clearly seems very stealthy and has the ability to scale towers, buildings, and jump from insane heights with no problem. At crazy speeds on top of that. Even Batman needs his Grapple Gun and Lines, Shadow has none of this.

1) Drops from a large building into the car.

2) Appears on a high crane unseen.

3) Jumps from over 30 meters from the side of a ship onto the dock.

4) Travels from roof tops to appear on the ground in front of this man.

5) Appears on a super high tower structure that seems impossible to physically scale.

6) Appears from the shadows of this wall, and then easily gets up to the 3rd story window of this building in no time.

Even if Fantomex Misdirection worked on the Shadow, the Shadow has Soul Reading (Never seen Souls Misdirected, or magic period) and Precognition (Fantomex never Misdirected Precognition either lol) so the Shadow can and should counter Fantomex Misdirect while Clouding his mind, or telling Fantomex to choke himself :P

#10 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: Skill feats!

The Shadow faces Raja, a man with the same powers as him. He takes out his gang, then faces Raja in a fair battle as both their powers canceled the others out.

The Shadow takes down Spanish soldiers in hand to hand for a get away.

The Shadow takes out a couple of soldiers, then takes on the very skilled Black Sparrow who is also immune to his powers.

The Shadow takes on Black Sparrow and others. Although she gains the advantage, she loses it right on the Shadows scheduled, probably foresaw it in his Precog.

The Shadow final battle with the Black Sparrow in H2H on a castles edge.

Shadow teams up with Green Hornet, Kato, and The Spider to take down bullet proof armored Cops in H2H. Shows off his own MA knowledge, or possibly simply Read Kato's Heart for info, as he watches Kato fight.

The Shadow takes down a group of knee breakers with no trouble.

Hand to hand brosky! :)

#11 Posted by Strider92 (16454 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw: I was referring to his ability to control people which is the only thing that could really save Shadow in the first round. Yes he can pull off illusions Ie: disappearing like smoke but thats not going to help him with Fantomex's misdirection and his ability to hypnotize/control people is dependent on their willpower from what i've seen. What it comes down to is who can pull the trick first but as long as Fantomex can have that split-second of resistance against Shadow's hypnosis which he can due to the nature of how it works then he has an advantage.

#12 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9407 posts) - - Show Bio
#13 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw:

be honest you have that argument pre set up don't you

.....maybe.

@indiecomicsftw: I was referring to his ability to control people which is the only thing that could really save Shadow in the first round. Yes he can pull off illusions Ie: disappearing like smoke but thats not going to help him with Fantomex's misdirection and his ability to hypnotize/control people is dependent on their willpower from what i've seen. What it comes down to is who can pull the trick first but as long as Fantomex can have that split-second of resistance against Shadow's hypnosis which he can due to the nature of how it works then he has an advantage.

Oh I see what your saying. Yes, Hypnotizing only works on the weak willed or ill prepared.

As to who will get who first, soul Reading and the power to read anyone's future as long he has eye contact with them will allow Shadow to know Fantomex Powers and how to best counter them.

He explains how it works here when he tried to read Black Sparrow. Who is totally immune to his powers.

#14 Edited by Strider92 (16454 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw: Ah now thats a very good point. Soul reading is gonna give him an advantage. After seeing that again i've got to give the Shadow both rounds. Without Misdirection Fantomex isn't a huge threat and the Shadow definitely surpasses him in combat skill.

#15 Posted by Cjdavis103 (9407 posts) - - Show Bio
#16 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: I also want to point out, the Hypnosis Voice is so powerful, the dead and dying are still caught up and enthralled in it. Forget will power, he can Hypnotize the dead and dying by ordering you stay alive lol. Screw the will power of Fantomex ;)

Manipulating the Dead/Dying to staying Alive and carrying out orders.

1) Explains he can manipulate the Living and Dead.

2-3) Commands the dying pilot to stay alive and land them before fleeing into death.

4) Commands a dying soldier to return to camp to spread fear before striking.

5) Commands a dead assassin with a bullet in his head to reveal info.

#17 Posted by AllStarHit-Girl (574 posts) - - Show Bio

Fantomex

#18 Posted by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio
#19 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: @laflux: @strider92: It just occur to me, Fantomex has EVA as standard gear right? That Mechanocal device that moves FTL and can attack from the sky with missile like force?

Cause if Fantomex has that, he wins Round 1. Shadows powers only work on the Biological.

#20 Posted by Strider92 (16454 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I know he can handle himself in a fight but the Shadow was matching someone who was casually cutting multiple bullets out of the air with equal speed and skill. I don't think Fantom has the reactions of physical speed to keep up with someone who can consistently move and fight at that speed.

#21 Posted by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: @laflux: @strider92: It just occur to me, Fantomex has EVA as standard gear right? That Mechanocal device that moves FTL and can attack from the sky with missile like force?

Cause if Fantomex has that, he wins Round 1. Shadows powers only work on the Biological.

EVA is his nervous system IIRC.

With that said no using it offensively.

#22 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@laflux: @indiecomicsftw: @strider92: Concerning fantomexs feats without misdirection he once beat deathlok avengers before:

I thought Fantomex Misdierection worked on Tech as well, like the Celestial Ship or something.

Yet Deathlocks were immune to it. Interesting.

#23 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I know he can handle himself in a fight but the Shadow was matching someone who was casually cutting multiple bullets out of the air with equal speed and skill. I don't think Fantom has the reactions of physical speed to keep up with someone who can consistently move and fight at that speed.

The Light. She can cut apart multiple bullets from a .45 hand gun with no probs. Shadow does indeed dodge her sword attacks and even caught her blade with his hands.

#24 Posted by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44: I know he can handle himself in a fight but the Shadow was matching someone who was casually cutting multiple bullets out of the air with equal speed and skill. I don't think Fantom has the reactions of physical speed to keep up with someone who can consistently move and fight at that speed.

Fantomex beat a deathlok spider-man which was to fast for him to shoot with bullets….

#25 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@strider92 said:

@jashro44: I know he can handle himself in a fight but the Shadow was matching someone who was casually cutting multiple bullets out of the air with equal speed and skill. I don't think Fantom has the reactions of physical speed to keep up with someone who can consistently move and fight at that speed.

Fantomex beat a deathlok spider-man which was to fast for him to shoot with bullets….

Punisher has given Spider man a tussle before as well :)

#26 Posted by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@strider92 said:

@jashro44: I know he can handle himself in a fight but the Shadow was matching someone who was casually cutting multiple bullets out of the air with equal speed and skill. I don't think Fantom has the reactions of physical speed to keep up with someone who can consistently move and fight at that speed.

Fantomex beat a deathlok spider-man which was to fast for him to shoot with bullets….

Punisher has given Spider man a tussle before as well :)

Teenage spider-man who was inexperienced and tended not to use his speed and agility and has vastly improved….

Anyways the point is that he beat a character that was "to fast for bullets". Pretty good feat IMO.

#27 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

@indiecomicsftw said:

@jashro44 said:

@strider92 said:

@jashro44: I know he can handle himself in a fight but the Shadow was matching someone who was casually cutting multiple bullets out of the air with equal speed and skill. I don't think Fantom has the reactions of physical speed to keep up with someone who can consistently move and fight at that speed.

Fantomex beat a deathlok spider-man which was to fast for him to shoot with bullets….

Punisher has given Spider man a tussle before as well :)

Teenage spider-man who was inexperienced and tended not to use his speed and agility and has vastly improved….

Anyways the point is that he beat a character that was "to fast for bullets". Pretty good feat IMO.

It is a good feat, however The Shadow did the same with The Light. So he should compete easily with his establish skill.

#28 Posted by Wolverine08 (42201 posts) - - Show Bio

Fantomex.

#29 Posted by Strider92 (16454 posts) - - Show Bio

@indiecomicsftw: @jashro44: Thats also going under the assumption that Deathlok Spider-man = Peter Spider-man. Which can't be true. Peter is far more experienced using his abilities so even if the Deathlok is on the same level of speed as the real deal (unlikely as we have no feats to prove it) then it still doesn't have the skill and experience in utilizing efficiently.

#30 Edited by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92 said:

@indiecomicsftw: @jashro44: Thats also going under the assumption that Deathlok Spider-man = Peter Spider-man. Which can't be true. Peter is far more experienced using his abilities so even if the Deathlok is on the same level of speed as the real deal (unlikely as we have no feats to prove it) then it still doesn't have the skill and experience in utilizing efficiently.

True that.

@wolverine08 said:

Fantomex.

You think he can take both rounds? The Shadow Knows he cannot.

#31 Posted by Wolverine08 (42201 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio
#33 Posted by jashro44 (21645 posts) - - Show Bio

@strider92: Fantomex states that he is too fast for bullets. I agree he isn't the same as 616 spider-man though.

#34 Posted by IndieComicsFTW (3253 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.