The Sentry vs The Flash(Wally West)

Wally

I want to see more thoughts on this.

sentry

Sentry.

Wally

If blood lusted then Sentry has no reason to not destroy the planet, causing Wally to suffocate in space and die. Either way Wally can't hurt Sentry.

as much as I hate Sentry, there isn't anything Wally can do to hurt him. Eventually Sentry will win.

@zackg: Wally can run and breathe in space.

@itouchedtheboat: What? Wally can KO him a couple of IMPs.

@darkhoudini: Wally has little to no feats to support the idea that he can hurt someone at this level.

@itouchedtheboat: Speed Steal.

@greenarrow5476: stealing speed from somebody like Sentry; who gains his speed from simple raw power doesn't really work in slowing them down. It'll only add to Wally's speed (which in comparison won't mean anything to Wally). We've seen that when Jay Garrick tried stealing Superman's speed, Superman was still able to run just as fast, but Garrick was able to run a little faster.

@itouchedtheboat: Jay never stole all of Superman's Speed he just stole some to Slow him down Sentry still has kinetic energy and momentum which Wally can steal Wally can then deploy a BFR tatic depower him and dump him into the Speed Force giving Wally the win.

@itouchedtheboat: Sentry is horrendously overrated, his best blunt force durability feat is surviving some punches from a holding back Green Scar, Wally one shotted a White Martian while admitting he could have easily hit him a thousand times over, Sentry is getting KO'd...

A battle of two extremely overrated characters. Well, Wally curbstomps regular Sentry. Death Seed Sentry stalemates him unless Wally decides to use Speed Steal. Also, neither of those characters are above Herald level.

I feel bad for Wally. With his perception of speed hes going to feel every one of his molecules being broken apart. Torture really....

Pretty much. Wally can't kill sentry in death-seed but sentry isn't actually beating someone so tremendously faster than him.

OP says no BFR, if BFR was allowed I wouldn't even bother arguing against Wally winning. That's exactly what I tried saying. Stealing Kinetic energy from another speedster that gets their speed from the SpeedForce will completely stop said speedster, but with a being like Senry who produces his own Kinetic Energy it does nothing but temporarily stop him not even damage. And from what I remember Jay had to steal at least 90% of his speed because he intended to use it to catch up to Wally.

LOL both Wally and Sentry are horrendously overrated. and his best feat is taking punches from WWH (who was probably holding back but it's still a harder hit than Wally can produce), and another one where his fight with some dude destroyed a nearby moon (he was supposedly weakened in the second instance). Statements =/= feats. All because Wally said it, doesn't mean he actually can do it. By statements Sentry 'once fought Galactus to a standstill' or Supergirl can 'split the planet in half by accident' or (my personal favourite of ludicrous statements) Sentry should have 'limitless power' from the super serum he took and 'have the power of a million exploding suns'. statements mean nothing until they're actually proven or hold some weight behind it like when Earth one Superman and Earth two Superman were stated to be 'equal in every way' this can be true because they stalemated in a fight.

@itouchedtheboat:

his best feat is taking punches from WWH (who was probably holding back but it's still a harder hit than Wally can produce)

Yes, but Wally will be landing many more punches, punches that can one shot legitimate high-tiers. Sentry isn't surviving for long.

and another one where his fight with some dude destroyed a nearby moon (he was supposedly weakened in the second instance)

He was fighting the Collective and first of all, that moon was destroyed by their combined escaping energies, not their physical clashes. Secondly, they were close to Mars, Mars has two moons, Phobos and Deimos, here is Phobos and here is Deimos, Sentry and the Collective obviously destroyed Phobos, since that's the satellite that most closely resembles the one in the comic. Here's the thing though, both of Mars' moons are really small, Phobos is the largest of the two and it's still only about 22 km across, the energy required to destroy it is only 4.15×10^17 Joules or 99.2 megatons of TNT that's less than the yield of the largest nuclear weapon ever, the Tsar Bomba, which had a theoretical yield of 100 megatons, this is how much damage an explosion like that would cause to a city like Los Angeles. Sure, they weren't on the satellite, so given the distance, presumably more energy was released, but it's also a shared feat, still no better than large mountain level.

Statements =/= feats. All because Wally said it, doesn't mean he actually can do it. By statements Sentry 'once fought Galactus to a standstill' or Supergirl can 'split the planet in half by accident' or (my personal favourite of ludicrous statements) Sentry should have 'limitless power' from the super serum he took and 'have the power of a million exploding suns'. statements mean nothing until they're actually proven or hold some weight behind it like when Earth one Superman and Earth two Superman were stated to be 'equal in every way' this can be true because they stalemated in a fight.

It depends on the statement, Wally IMP'd Zum and in internal monologue thought that he could have punched him even more times but it wasn't necessary, it's not an empty statement. Plus Wally has punched in a super-speed-multiple-punching-combo countless times, it's well within his capabilities. But it's not like it matters either way, Sentry isn't tagging him, Wally can punch him once, maneuver around him and punch him again, rinse and repeat.

@itouchedtheboat said:

@darkhoudini said:

@itouchedtheboat:

Yes, but Wally will be landing many more punches, punches that can one shot legitimate high-tiers. Sentry isn't surviving for long.

a literal Bloodlusted Wally couldn't even put down MMH in fact John didn't think much of Wally's hits, durability wise MMH and Sentry may be pretty close. I'm not saying his punch against Zum was PIS, but it definitely is an inconsistency that most writers don't think he's capable of doing.

It depends on the statement, Wally IMP'd Zum and in internal monologue thought that he could have punched him even more times but it wasn't necessary, it's not an empty statement. Plus Wally has punched in a super-speed-multiple-punching-combo countless times, it's well within his capabilities. But it's not like it matters either way, Sentry isn't tagging him, Wally can punch him once, maneuver around him and punch him again, rinse and repeat.

I agree, Sentry has little to no chance at hitting Wally. But the reason I said he'd eventually win is, becasue (like I said) Wally doesn't exactly have the consistent ability to hurt people on this level. But Sentry can get lucky and tag him once, or he can do what Doomsday did and rattle the general area's floor and have Wally trip on himself and stumble. And as far as your statement's legitimacy goes all because it was a monologue:

When did a bloodlusted Wally fight J'onn?

@reaverlation@darkhoudini: It's a very brief fight but nobody was hurt which was the important part lol

Gallery

@itouchedtheboat: That's not Wally...

@reaverlation: whoops lol how'd you know? i can never tell the difference

Wally West curb stomps

Then he'd go back in time, and join Sentry's team, and still stomp.

Sentry

@itouchedtheboat:

a literal Bloodlusted Wally couldn't even put down MMH in fact John didn't think much of Wally's hits, durability wise MMH and Sentry may be pretty close. I'm not saying his punch against Zum was PIS, but it definitely is an inconsistency that most writers don't think he's capable of doing.

Like @reaverlation said, this wasn't Wally, it was Barry that whole instance is a flashback, the issue is Hourman #16 - Snapper Carr: Super-Traitor!.

I agree, Sentry has little to no chance at hitting Wally. But the reason I said he'd eventually win is, becasue (like I said) Wally doesn't exactly have the consistent ability to hurt people on this level. But Sentry can get lucky and tag him once, or he can do what Doomsday did and rattle the general area's floor and have Wally trip on himself and stumble.

So you're saying Sentry wins because he might get lucky... Do I even have to explain to you how much of a non argument that is? We never saw his fight with Doomsday, he tripped sure, does that mean he somehow can't get back up? Not to mention Sentry will probably lose before he even thinks of employing this strategy he's never used.

And as far as your statement's legitimacy goes all because it was a monologue:

Um, lol, I guess you missed the part where I said that Wally has performed multi-punch-combos countless times... It's not something he can't do, he's freaking done it. But seriously if you can't see the difference between Wally punching someone and claiming he could have done something he's done dozens of times, but didn't because it wasn't necessary, and Bob claiming he's above God, I can't help you.

Sentry should win in an ordinary match-up but he can't beat bloodlusted moral off Wally. He's very OP.

What's the conditions for victory?

If KO, Flash, if anything else Sentry.

Have we not seen him leaving Amazo motionless for the time being, who had the powers of the entire Justice League? That includes Superman as well, hell, Wonder Woman admitted that version of Amazo was more powerful than her and Superman combined. And doesn't Jay Garrick like suck at speed stealing? I thought so.

Barry lets Superman win during races sometimes since it is for charity. Wally is the fastest Flash out there and he too can create the speed force around him which amplifies his powers. He easily can break the time barrier and thus killing sentry in so many ways he would not see coming 9/10 times. Wally can vibrate through sentry if he wished and end him via taking out his organs, he posses the infinite mass punch like superman to which knocked the (CRAP) out of Lex/brainiac Justice League Unlimited version and won. Side note took the god right out of him literally.

Both have healing factors yes but imo flashes is better. Sentry of course has the strength to back it up but due to flashes speed he can rival if not surpass the newtons he will be creating.

Wally stomps.

Wally should win.

Even though his cartoon version is weaker here, it is still impressive.

@itouchedtheboat: Why wouldn't Speed Steal work? it doesn't just steal your kinetic energy it steals all motion and momentum power levels never had anything to do with Speed Steal Wally has way better Speed Stealing feats than Jay Garrick and Jay is leagues below Wally in terms of Speed Stealing btw were talking about Wally who is the ONLY Flash who has shown the ability to completely immobilize an opponent by speed stealing so idk why you even mentioned Jay in the first place Speed Steal should work just fine.

Flash

Wally wins

@blackgoku:'Time being' is exactly my point. He could produce his own kinetic energy so he was bale to move fast again. plus i dont take statements seriously, especially after that Amazo landed 100s of hits on Wally and he was still alive, if Superman or WW did that Wally's head would be completely obliterated. can I see the scan though? i forgot how that fight went

I know Wally is better than JG at it, but it's the only instance I've seen it being used on someone like Sentry. Apparently there's an instance where Amazo was frozen due to Speed steal so idk

@itouchedtheboat: No, you must of not read the comic. Amazo was slowed down to the point where Black Canary could even blitz him.

And why would WW herself lie about Amazo being more powerful than her and Superman? Let's not forget about the fact he also had powers of Zatanna who fought a Universal destroyer.

@itouchedtheboat: No, I know Wally West doesn't have Universal durability. You think Speed Steal has something to do with power levels, which is why I brought up Amazo having Zatanna powers, Zatanna, who can fight Universal beings and summon Spectre without his will and Amazo being so powerful he depowered her and yet Wally West absorbed his kinetic energy, while on the edge of death.

I would say that's impressive and should atleast prove Speed Steal doesn't have nothing to do with power levels.

https://m.imgur.com/a/4RHWL

Casually oneshots WW.

https://m.imgur.com/a/A45Fp

WW being overpowered as you can cleary tell by her screaming "Ahhhhh"! And then right after, herself states, Amazo is more powerful than her and Superman combined.

I am going with Flash.

Wally stomps

Sentry.

@itouchedtheboat: For your second point. Batman had gotten in the way. It's not nonsense, If Batman had not interrupted he would have literally broken her arms, she wasn't screaming for nothing, we cleary see Amazo overpowering her for a short notice until Batman distracted Amazo.

And the first point, yes, well, he did that. I'm not sure how that makes a difference. That just proves how powerful Amazo is.

And I mean, look here. We have Amazo taking Superman on multiple occasions.

Tanks a hit and bullrush from Superman, uses Firestorm's powers to take him down

http://imgur.com/a/8FUO3

He takes down Superman with his own power.

The statement from WW isn't a fluke.

flash

@itouchedtheboat said: it's just a difference of how easy it was for both characters, Amazo isn't a 'holding back' kind of guy so if he was honestly as powerful as Wonder Woman and Superman combined; it would've been like squeezing a tube f toothpaste, yet Batman just distracted him so we technically have no way of knowing if he could do it.

Well, we did see him almost kill her on another scan I've showed you.

because 'one-shotting' typically means to hit with a punch, not necessarily that kind of attack. We don't know what's really happening there, he could be sucking her powers for all we know.

Okay, again, how does that make a difference really? How is the feat less impressive?

Superman just got there, it's very likely he was holding back because he didn't know the extent of Amazo's powers (its what Superman does), and the only time Superman even showed a slight bit of getting taken down was when Amazo used Firestorm's ability to emit Red Sun radiation. Superman loses his powers from red sun radiation, so this one is a bad feat to use.

Yeah, by the look in Superman face I doubt he was holding back.

still doesn't show how he's strongerthan Superman and Wonder Woman combined, it only shows Superman's durability is weak to energy projection, which is kind of common knowledge at this point.

It shows that Amazo can withstand punches from both beings, beings who are incredibly powerful. And take them down rather quickly.

Hasn't Cheeath not stalemated WW before in a 1on1 fight before? Yet, Wally West can steal her speed.

it kind of is, WW made tons of claims in fights that make no sense. She says something like "He's faster than Clark" and then says "As fast as me" trying to imply she faster than Superman - nonsense statement. She says how Zoom hits her with a light speed punch and it hurts more than Superman's punches, yet Superman's all out punch literally knocked her out (Zoom's didn't) - another nonsense statement. She even tried convincing Superman that she's faster than him in fighting, yet when they actually fought one on one Superman literally takes her out in two pages while still holding back. It's almost like a running joke where writers like to give Wonder Woman this false sense of confidence that's she better than Superman and Superman is weaker than everybody. This is exactly why I don't trust statements. And I honestly just realized that we completely derailed this conversation XD I thought you were going to show scans of Wally completely freezing Amazo with his speed steal? lol

Zoom is a villain but he sees himself as a hero. He induces tragedy on heroes to make them better. So in that encounter, he had no intentions of killing her or knocking her out but to only make her better.

WW vs Superman in terms of speed is debatable, but not right now.

There have been instances where Zoom could blitz Superman before he could blink, while WW has been able to withstand a blitz from him and even tag him.

The scans? Sure.

https://m.imgur.com/a/ekMDR