@reikai What do you mean by outlier? What Roshi did was legit. Its a feat. You cant discard it. I can just as easily claim that Broly's feat was an outlier.
The same way Goku was going to put him down; by building up his Ki and concentrating it into an attack that would wipe him out.
based on?
The fight. Goku and Kid Buu were dead in even in their skirmish. Neither one could gain the upper hand. Kid Buu's only advantage was his regeneration and stamina, which allowed him to keep coming back. By contrast, Goku was losing stamina and needed to gather his Ki up beat buu. It was never stated or shown that Kid Buu had a power advantage over Goku. Piccolo was slightly stronger than 17, but the latter's infinite Ki gave him somewhat of an advantage.
Goku did manage to get in a couple of shots, but he got wrecked when Jenemba got serious. Kid Buu was on par with SSJ3 Goku.
not in the anime verse
The Manga takes precedence over the anime, which contradicts the manga and on occasions, itself. For example, Goku states that he stood zero chance against Super Buu, yet he manages to hold his own against Buutenks, a much stronger version of Buu. Moreover, If you go by anime, then SSJ Goku>SSJ2 Gohan, which is obviously untrue.
Goku with a power level of 12 got shot in the head by Bulma and didn't get more than Bruise, but Hercule got killed outright by gunfire. There are so many inconsistencies, that its not even funny.
That is not inconsistency. Its physiology. Goku is a saiyan. It only makes sense that he has better durability than a mere human.
@gxrevolution96: You van lie to yourself but that's about it. Roshi's busting is an outlier because we have his entire career to compare it against. And this was still in the early Dragon Ball series where Toriyama did things like have Goku go to the moon via the Nyoibo and drop criminals off. There was a lot of toonforcing back then and nothing was given much context.
Brolly's is legit because he only has 2 appearances with a total length of less than 2hrs of screen time. And it was done in an underpowered state.
@michaeljulius: I know, but still, the numbers are ultimately meaningless. Viz printed a PL for Brolly's first appearance at 1.4billion. The figure is meaningless because it tells nothing of what Brolly has actually accomplished and because his power increases continuously during battle.
@gxrevolution96: You van lie to yourself but that's about it. Roshi's busting is an outlier because we have his entire career to compare it against. And this was still in the early Dragon Ball series where Toriyama did things like have Goku go to the moon via the Nyoibo and drop criminals off. There was a lot of toonforcing back then and nothing was given much context.
Brolly's is legit because he only has 2 appearances with a total length of less than 2hrs of screen time. And it was done in an underpowered state.
I respectfully disagree. Unless I am misunderstanding you, most of what you said seems based only on opinion. Roshi's feat should be discarded because it was earlier on in this series? But Broly's feat is legit? I suppose Piccolo's moon busting feat is not legit either? Because that is the only time in series where has demonstrated that level of power. You cant just pick and choose. If you are going to take Broly's feat at face value, then Roshi's feat should be just as valid.
It is also bizarre that Broly was in two whole movies yet he fails to demonstrate his supposed galaxy busting power on his foes, and is defeated on both occasions.
Toei usually make their villains stronger with each movie, with the only exception being Bio-Broly, ironically enough.
Goku was born with a power level of 2 had trained with Grandpa Gohan to achieve a power level of 12. Doesn't make sense and I am not justifying that. I am doing the opposite. It doesn't make sense, it was so badly written that you cannot make sense of any of it. I'm not going to make assumptions and made up factoids about Saiyan bone and skin structure just to support the idea that Goku can withstand a gunshot at a power level of 12. Not because he raised his power level beyond normal human level, but because he is a Saiyan alien/monster who naturally can withstand gunshots because his bone structure and skin are just that much better than humans at age 12. That is a statement that is made up just to support the debate here and had no backing in the series at all, no hint to that being the case and nothing at all implying that is how it is.
Also, it is very clear that only like 3 people including myself have watched the original japanese version of movie 8. King Kai clearly states definitively that Broly could eventually destroy the South Galaxy and that he was currently rampaging throughout star systems with Paragus's SPACE SHIP, blowing up planets system by system. It was actually stated to be foreshadowing when the galaxy dissipated. He entire movie took place in the South Galaxy, the one he apparently blew up without an explosion according to 99% of Broly nutcases. There are only four galaxies in DBZ. Broly never blew up the South Galaxy. If he had, the Kai's would be all over him like white on rice.
The same way Goku was going to put him down; by building up his Ki and concentrating it into an attack that would wipe him out.
goku was incorrect about that working. he admits after his stamina fails him that they should have fused. look at the power of the genkidama, and look how kid buu was pushing even that back.
also it takes skill to do that. janemba was a thug who'd get madder and madder and weaker and weaker as his attacks fail him.
Goku did manage to get in a couple of shots, but he got wrecked when Jenemba got serious. Kid Buu was on par with SSJ3 Goku.
janemba was a thug who wouldn't know the first thing about how to put kid buu down. goku had no clue either, and if he could just wipe him out, how come their wish wasn't immediately to get goku to full strength, but to wish back earth and humanity? goku put his faith that vegeta's plan was superior to his own.
he Manga takes precedence over the anime
i dont care. the title names anime characters so thats what we use. thatd be like me trying to make it a comic fight when its clearly DCAU versions
The fight. Goku and Kid Buu were dead in even in their skirmish.
kid buu was laughing and enjoying himself the entire time. goku admits multiple times he was NOT keeping up.
u. It was never stated or shown that Kid Buu had a power advantage over Goku
yes it was.. multiple times in japanese version
. For example, Goku states that he stood zero chance against Super Buu, yet he manages to hold his own against Buutenks, a m
explained away by goku simply wanting vegeta to fuse and make sure of their victory rather than risk anything.
also explained away by buutenks being in a toying mood, as buu often is.
goku was incorrect about that working. he admits after his stamina fails him that they should have fused.
And how does this disprove Goku's statement? Goku said that IF he can build his Ki to full power, he would be able to wipe Buu out with his Ki. This statement was never contradicted.
The only thing Goku says in regards to the fusion was that the fight would have been much easier, to the point where he'd able to kill Buu with one blast. This doesn't mean that Kid Buu was stronger than him.
look at the power of the genkidama, and look how kid buu was pushing even that back.
It was clearly established that the reason Goku couldn't kill Buu initially was because he did not have the strength to push the bomb. When Goku's ki is restored, he immediately regains control of the struggle and overpowers Buu with relative ease .
how come their wish wasn't immediately to get goku to full strength, but to wish back earth and humanity? goku put his faith that vegeta's plan was superior to his own.
Actually, Goku doubted Vegeta's plan initially, and immediately assumed that Vegeta intended on bringing Gotenks and Gohan to the kai world. Who can blame him. The Genka Dama doesn't exactly have the best of record.
As for your question, they needed the first two wishes to restore the earth and to resurrect everyone
i dont care. the title names anime characters so thats what we use. thatd be like me trying to make it a comic fight when its clearly DCAU versions
Except that the comics and DCAU are are two completely different continuities. The anime is based off the manga and alters certain scenes and dialogue to better appeal to the audience or to stretch the series out. The manga is the original source material. And when the two conflict, the manga takes precedence as it was done by AT. When you are writing a college essay on a topic, you wouldn't go take your information for wiki. As I mentioned before, the anime has no credibility and contradicts itself on multiple occasions. You can go by the anime if you want, but it also says that Kid Buu is the strongest Buu despite the fact Goku was outright stomped by Buuhan in the anime filler, which you apparently go by. You would also have to accept that SSJ Goku>>>SSJ2 Gohan. And Yamcha/Krillin>Cell
kid buu was laughing and enjoying himself the entire time.
The only time that Buu plays around is when he starts prolonging his regeneration after he realises that Goku cannot inflict long term damage on him.
goku admits multiple times he was NOT keeping up.
The only thing Goku mentions is that his conventional attacks were not working and that Buu's regeneration allows him to keep coming back. He never states that his power was inferrer to Buu's. Goku needs to build up his Ki to beat Buu, which he couldn't do due the intensity and pacing of the fight. There was no indication in their fight of Buu having the upper hand. They were evenly matched throughout. The anime drags it out and by adding filler, but the fight is only 10 pages long.
Gallery
yes it was.. multiple times in japanese version
Again, not in the manga
explained away by goku simply wanting vegeta to fuse and make sure of their victory rather than risk anything.
You are contradicting yourself. What you saying is that Goku had the power to beat Buu but wanted to fuse instead because he did not want to risk it. Even if we were to abide by your logic, Goku was still uncertain that he could beat Buu if he still wanted to fuse and did no want to "risk anything".
also explained away by buutenks being in a toying mood
I dont see how you can all me out for making things up when it has been shown that saiyan and human physiology differs. For one, the former's ability to grow stronger after recovering form near death. They can stay in their prime conditions significantly longer than humans, their hairstyle remains unchanged form birth, saiyans can utilise Ki much better than humans, they can endure the the vacuum of space for relatively long periods and their planet's gravity is 10x that of earth's, which means that the average saiyan has stronger than average human. You also have baby Goku hitting his head and surviving. It being badly written is conjecture. I don't think it is. But I respect your view on the matter and we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Not one piece of that convinces me that Saiyan children are just born with a develop skulls and skin tough enough to withstand gunfire. He was able to survive that because of his power level. Had nothing to do with his physiology. Goku has been sliced up and harmed by debris in the series so many times. But again, we both win the argument because we both agree hardly anything makes sense. But, I don't believe Goku being an alien has anything to do with him surviving a bullet to the head. His power level was high enough to withstand it due to his training with Grandpa Gohan.
Buu is clinically insane, he laughs because he thought Goku would never be able to harm him. SSJ3 Goku would have wrecked him if he wanted to, but he stated he wanted Vegeta to have another shot. Buu had really high stamina and endurance, Goku didn't and burns through energy with SSJ3 really fast yet was able to keep up from start to finish.
Last thoughts on the subject at hand though:
Broly didn't ascend and has never met anyone significantly stronger than him during the first moments of the fight. He always fought someone far weaker, the guy is also clinically insane and had very little training. He really doesn't know how to use his powers nearly as well as Goku. Legenary Super Saiyan Broly is stronger than SSJ2 Gohan, SSj1 Goku after almost 7 years in otherworld, and SSJ1 Goten combined. SEVEN YEARS OF FIGHTING AGAINST THE BEST WARRIORS and apparently even more training to raise his base level even further....SEVEN...YEARS...Broly still shrugged it off but being the dippidy doo dah he is, he got caught by the blast and sent to the sun and boiled like a bag of rice. I mean christ, SSJ1 Goku was leagues stronger than SSJ1 Trunks. Weapon and all, Trunks couldn't even stop Goku's finger blocks lol...The difference in power between them is immense. So just imagine how far past that Goku was after training.
Imagine what LSSJ2 Broly or LSSJ3 Broly would do if he even had a clue that RAGE is what consistitues ascension. Janemba and Hirudegarn implode upon first impact of the first punch Broly tosses at them.
If you plucked Broly right out of movie 8 or 10, he would lose a fight with Janemba. But I think if we are talking about potentials and likely outcomes, broly gets stomped hard and then rages out like always does and ascends, then rips Janembas head off his body and eats it.
*waives goodbye to the thread, floating up to the sky, catching power pole and dissipating into nothing* Bye guys!
I never suggested that Goku was immune to all damage and injury, only more resistant to it than ordinary humans.
Goku was still a baby when the incident occurred. He hadn't begun training yet.
Buu is clinically insane, he laughs because he thought Goku would never be able to harm him. SSJ3 Goku would have wrecked him if he wanted to, but he stated he wanted Vegeta to have another shot. Buu had really high stamina and endurance, Goku didn't and burns through energy with SSJ3 really fast yet was able to keep up from start to finish.
Well, Buu saga Saiyans would lose but would take out Broly and at least harm Janemba. If we're talking after the events of the Buu saga then they would be able to kill Broly with no trouble but I already feel like Janemba would be able to help Hirudegarn until either one of them got killed. If we're talking BoG Saiyans without the God powers and such the Saiyans would absolutely dominate.
And how does this disprove Goku's statement? Goku said that IF he can build his Ki to full power, he would be able to wipe Buu out with his Ki. This statement was never contradicted.
and hes wrong about that, when he comments that no, he cannot do that and not have his ki fall back away. ssj3 isn't meant for that
The only thing Goku mentions is that his conventional attacks were not working and that Buu's regeneration allows him to keep coming back. He never states that his power was inferrer to Buu's.
he does multiple times in the anime. dont quote manga back at me because this is anime verse
Goku doubted Vegeta's plan initially,
who cares? he put his faith in it eventually, rather than ask shenron to just restore him back to full power.
Again, not in the manga
i dont give two flying FUCKS
Except that the comics and DCAU are are two completely different continuities. The anime is based off the manga and alters certain scenes and dialogue to better appeal to the audience or to stretch the series out. The manga is the original source material. And when the two conflict, the manga takes precedence as it was done by AT.
absurd. the movies are different continuities so how are you making manga characters fight movie ones? probably to force an illlogical victory for your team, rather than make sense and use anime versions like sensible people do.
it doesnt "take precedence" when its clear as day thats not the versions the OP meant.
It was clearly established that the reason Goku couldn't kill Buu initially was because he did not have the strength to push the bomb. When Goku's ki is restored, he immediately regains control of the struggle and overpowers Buu with relative ease .
also clearly established that just the z fighters ki was not enough to power it. you cant push something like that back just because goku was out of power, if your weak.
and hes wrong about that, when he comments that no, he cannot do that and not have his ki fall back away. ssj3 isn't meant for that
He wasn't wrong though. He wasn't aware that SSJ3 bled so much Ki, yet he was adamant he could kill Buu if he built his Ki up. If he had got his attack and failed, then he would have been wrong.
he does multiple times in the anime. dont quote manga back at me because this is anime verse
We're ddbetaing the Kid Buu vs SSJ3 Goku fight, correct. Therefore, the anime is irrelevant. The manga is the original source material is therefore more reliable, and doesn't contradict itself and create plot holes like the anime does. Its funny, because going purely off the anime, Goku still says he is no match Super Buu, but is able to hold his own against Buutenks. He also says Kid Buu is the strongest Buu, which not only contradicts the manga, but contradicts him wanting to permanently fuse with Gohan/Vegeta to beat Buutenks and Buuhan. And again, if you go by the anime, you'd have to accept that SSJ Goku>>SSJ2 Gohan and Tien & Yamcha>Ginyu force. It is as I said, the anime has no credibility whatsoever and is irrelevant here
absurd. the movies are different continuities so how are you making manga characters fight movie ones? probably to force an illlogical victory for your team, rather than make sense and use anime versions like sensible people do.
Re-read what I said. I was referring to the filler.
i dont give two flying FUCKS
Nice comeback.
it doesnt "take precedence" when its clear as day thats not the versions the OP meant.
Actually, the OP does not specify which versions we're using. In fact, going of the picture of SSJ3 Goku, we can safely assume that he is referring to the Buu race SSJ3 Goku.
also clearly established that just the z fighters ki was not enough to power it. you cant push something like that back just because goku was out of power, if your weak.
It was enough. Or did you miss the part when Goku actually kills Buu with the bomb
And are you also going to ignore the fact that Goku did not have the energy push it. Kid Buu was fighting against someone whom was battle worn and exhausted. Moreover, he never actually pushes it back at Goku. He catches and stops in its tracks. The part where he sends it flying is anime filler
For all of u saying that planetbusting is a good reason why someone is superior to another well you're wrong Vegeta in the saiyan saga blew up a planet so does that put him on par with somebody like Kid Buu or Frieza. Broly blew up a moon does that mean he is just as weak as Master Roshi? It really is irrelevant LOL
@deranged_midget: Because Mystic Gohan is stronger than janemba! he doesn't have to be stronger than Gogeta he just has to be stronger than Super Janemba
Super boo sensed mystic gohan from earth. And gohan was on kaioshins planet.
Master Kaio said to be sensed from anyone from a other world you must he strong as a ssj3. Ssj3 goku was so strong that his ki could be sensed from the Kai world.
NOW HERES THE REASON.
In the Manga brolys : " Second coming " Goku was able to sense Broly after he transformed to Lssj!!!
He said : " Ah! It's... Broly. " From King Kaios planet! Thats a other world. And the earth is a other world for King kaios planet!
And Broly was on earth, while goku was death at that time! THAT MEANS HE MUST BE AT LEAST AS STRONG AS AN SSJ3! Because Broly had so much power that even Dead Goku could sense his Power from otherworld!
That proves that Broly is one of the mightest opponents.
He Legendary stomps the Z fighters in Both Movies and as a weacker Bio broly too!
He is just too power full.
He would solo the Z Fighters again.
Just a combined powet attack can defeath him, but not kill him. Gokus punch didn't killed him. He survived the attack and after that the planet destruction and weres many years in the universe and survived. He didn't trained his power was The same im the second coming but he curbstomped ssj2 gohan ( in the manga even ssj vegeta ).
@super_silver_silva_14: @xlr87t3: Whats with all the Broly Solos? He's weaker than every hero here with the exception of Majin Vegeta and even that's debatable
@julyiscool: Broly has feats to back him up, and those feats are far FAR beyond anything anyone in this fight can even try to approach. Only a plot device could defeat him, literally the "Miracle Punch" XD!!!
@julyiscool: Broly has feats to back him up, and those feats are far FAR beyond anything anyone in this fight can even try to approach. Only a plot device could defeat him, literally the "Miracle Punch" XD!!!
You cant go entirely by feats. Going by your logic, Saiyan Saga Piccolo is stronger than CG Gohan since his feat of moon busting outstrips anything Gohan did. See the problem? You suggesting thet he is in the leagues of the gods, which he clear is not.. Broly's ki wasn't even sensed from the kai world.
circumstance. hirudegarn was almost certainly weakened by having his tail sliced off, and inexplicably stopped mist teleporting when goku faced him that final time. meaning if he did use mist teleport, dragon fist would have missed
Mystic Gohan takes Janemba, SSJ3 Goku and Majin Vegeta SSJ2 take Hirudegarn and SSJ3 Gotenks takes Broly.
Mystic Gohan should take Janemba pretty handily and he can help fight the others when he does. This really shouldn't be too much trouble for the Saiyans
@uft: they won't let it happen but what are they gonna do? Broly can attack the planet with multiple ki attacks simultaneously. He barely used effort when destroying planets so throwing out a couple dozen ki blasts shouldn't be that hard. Plus if Broly isn't crazy he'll destroy the Sun and Dende and "F" everyone on earth
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